End of USA military dominance.

[Kobe24Forever]

Ever wondered why the propaganda machine that is the USA media has stopped quoting issues about south osetia and tibet? This video pretty much sums it up.
gBdISajUiSU[/QUOTE]

[MannyIsGod]

:lol SAMS and planes that have been around 2 decades are going to lower our military's dominance?

I don't care if their SAMS can range 300 miles because SAMS need radar to see that far and you know what happens to SAMS that have their radar operating?

And I don't care about their aircraft and their supposed awesome missiles because we have a HUGE edge in the most important aspect of air operations. Command and Control. Let me know when some of our enemies actually develop decent AWACS.

[Kobe24Forever]

:lol SAMS and planes that have been around 2 decades are going to lower our military's dominance?

I don't care if their SAMS can range 300 miles because SAMS need radar to see that far and you know what happens to SAMS that have their radar operating?

And I don't care about their aircraft and their supposed awesome missiles because we have a HUGE edge in the most important aspect of air operations. Command and Control. Let me know when some of our enemies actually develop decent AWACS.

your reluctance to accept reality is understandable, there's so much that the media is hiding from you people and distorting realities around the world that your ignorance can partially be blamed on your government, here's to a better future under Obama's administration, he will need all the help he can get, cause USA is no longer the worlds superpower, and with national reserve in the deficit it cant even keep up with it's mortgages, what more to say military advancement, and yeah as if skillfull manipulation of fighter jets can avoid getting hit by radar jamming system.

[Kobe24Forever]

oh and another food for thought, Usa baseless threats and inaction on Iran, guess what, Russian technology, their F-22 will bite the dust, there's pretty much no feasible way for USA to launch a successful air raid on Iran with suferring heavy loses.

[balli]

The thing is that we can't scrap in these fucked up regional, guerilla wars, but really, if it came down to it, our civilian killing arsenal could wipe out the rest of the world in a matter of hours. Probably without even using nukes.

And economics be damned. It's not like shit's all gravy right now for everybody else. And I didn't even need to watch the shit to understand the argument is probably predicated more on long-term assessments of future alliances and foreign military strength. But yeah, as it stands we'll fuck anybody up in a large scale conflict and that ain't changing anytime soon.

Besides, in WWII, we more or less turned this nation into a war machine. One powerful enough to travel around the world and fuck up the most powerful military force that had yet been seen on earth. And that still fucking means something. Americans got it when it counts son.

[Kobe24Forever]

The thing is that we can't scrap in these fucked up guerilla wars, but really, if it came down to it, our civilian killing arsenal could wipe out the rest of the world in a matter of hours. Probably without without even using nukes.

And economics be damned. It's not like shit's all gravy right now for everybody else. And I didn't even need to watch the shit to understand the argument is probably predicated more on long-term assessments of future alliances and foreign military strength. But yeah, as it stands we'll fuck anybody up in a large scale conflict and that ain't changing all that soon. Besides, in WWII, we more or less turned this nation into a war machine. One powerful enough to go travel the whole world to fuck up the most powerful military force (the axis) that had yet been seen on earth. And that still fucking means something. Americans got it when it counts.


Speaking out of ur ass means nothing, the russian and chinese troops outnumbered and are much tougher trained than the USA marines thats a given, if it does come down to ground combat it will be a massacre for the usa, if ur ground troops cant even beat back the japanese, till they were forced to drop the atom bomb, lost in the korean and vietnam war, with better technologies, how the fuc do you expect to win a war against these two jugganauts, you are dillusional, or refuse to admit reality, end of story.

[balli]

how the fuc do you expect to win a war against these two jugganauts
http://schema-root.org/military/weapons/aircraft/fighters/f-16/f-16.jpg

http://ship25bsa.org/images/030817_Maritime_Day/Images/DCP_0126b-mid.JPG

http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/5450225145623223.JPG?0.5312890414385995

[Kobe24Forever]

The thing is that we can't scrap in these fucked up regional, guerilla wars, but really, if it came down to it, our civilian killing arsenal could wipe out the rest of the world in a matter of hours. Probably without even using nukes.

And economics be damned. It's not like shit's all gravy right now for everybody else. And I didn't even need to watch the shit to understand the argument is probably predicated more on long-term assessments of future alliances and foreign military strength. But yeah, as it stands we'll fuck anybody up in a large scale conflict and that ain't changing anytime soon.

Besides, in WWII, we more or less turned this nation into a war machine. One powerful enough to travel around the world and fuck up the most powerful military force that had yet been seen on earth. And that still fucking means something. Americans got it when it counts son.

world war 2 was a war won in stalingrad, where the germans pretty much fucked themselves up to superior russian ground troops, 3 million german troops got wiped out that there and 20 mill russian civilians gave up their lives for the cause, there's even a documentary where a former nazi officer recounts how they were no match for the russians in close quarter combat, americans did not save the world as history will their you, it was hitler's poor military miscalculations, and the russians that beat the nazis, the war was lost for germany right there, there's no turning back for them, the invasion at normandy was a farce, and invasion of troops from all over europe and american troops, the biggest and sadly most devastating contribution american did was to drop the atom bomb in hiroshima and nagasaki, that ended the japanese threat because by all accounts their ground troops were getting fucked by kamikaze crazed jap troops, after the atom bomb was dropped the emporor surrendered american troops marched in and plant a flag there, now that is what i found most hilarious about the whole situation things ur history class doesnt teach you.:rollin

[Kobe24Forever]

http://schema-root.org/military/weapons/aircraft/fighters/f-16/f-16.jpg

http://ship25bsa.org/images/030817_Maritime_Day/Images/DCP_0126b-mid.JPG

http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/5450225145623223.JPG?0.5312890414385995

pictures of outdated milatary hardwares actually help ur argument, brilliant.:lol

[baseline bum]

Speaking out of ur ass means nothing, the russian and chinese troops outnumbered and are much tougher trained than the USA marines thats a given, if it does come down to ground combat it will be a massacre for the usa, if ur ground troops cant even beat back the japanese, till they were forced to drop the atom bomb, lost in the korean and vietnam war, with better technologies, how the fuc do you expect to win a war against these two jugganauts, you are dillusional, or refuse to admit reality, end of story.

Da Japs were gonna win the war without the a-bomb? ur sure? fuc, thank god we had those two jugganauts of bombs to drop on hiroshima and nigasaki

[balli]

pictures of outdated milatary hardwares actually help ur argument, brilliant.:lol

Are you fucking kidding me? War expenditures aside, do you have any idea how much this nation spends on the military each year? Obviously not, but I suggest you go find a pie chart outlining yearly federal expenditures. We may be broke as shit, but you're kidding yourself if you think what money we do have, isn't being spent on contracts for missile and defense companies.

[MannyIsGod]

your reluctance to accept reality is understandable, there's so much that the media is hiding from you people and distorting realities around the world that your ignorance can partially be blamed on your government, here's to a better future under Obama's administration, he will need all the help he can get, cause USA is no longer the worlds superpower, and with national reserve in the deficit it cant even keep up with it's mortgages, what more to say military advancement, and yeah as if skillfull manipulation of fighter jets can avoid getting hit by radar jamming system.

How are SAMS going to avoid ARMS?

How are they going to neutralize AEW?

[The Reckoning]

LOL LOL LOL kobefornever has been watching too much of Red Dawn.

the US has mastered stealth technology, which will render radar-guided missiles useless. the first thing the US would do is take out the radar towers - then bombs away.

btw, the US has other shit like cruise missiles and bombers that simply outrun missiles

[balli]

It's just ridiculous. We're slated to spend $653 billion dollars on military expenditures next year. Not including an estimated 200 billion on Iraq/Afghanistan.

Sorry, but (an annual) $653 billion dollars speaks a little bit louder than some dumb youtube vid.

[Kobe24Forever]

Are you fucking kidding me? War expenditures aside, do you have any idea how much this nation spends on the military each year? Obviously not, but I suggest you go find a pie chart outlining yearly federal expenditures. We may be broke as shit, but you're kidding yourself if you think what money we do have, isn't being spent on contracts for missile and defense companies.

oh in conjunction with your estimated over 1 trillion dollar bailout program, dont forget that is a -1 trillion on ur national reserve, you obviously have no idea how the economy works, if you are broke, you find ways to get back on ur feet and get ur economy moving again, which means finding ways to make money, can you recount how long ago has ur nasa program stalled, the mess you couldnt clean up in iraq because of ineptness? it dont happen by accident kid, you can keep convincing urself otherwise or you can move towards change, the way i see it there''s pretty much no way out unless you drop that mentality, you are not the one making the decisions that is best for ur country the reality is that america now more than ever needs help from countries all over the world to get over their economic slump which includes begging china to help buy them more bonds, it's not a coincidence either that the anti china propaganda before the olympics have cease in this troubled times, or the issue with osetia has cooled, no coincidence at all, i would be damn if ur government is still funding ur military expenditures and leaving ur people hung and dry, there would be a mass exodus if that were to happen, people at Nasa are losing jobs because the government arent funding them anymore, the only jobs they could find is to join the marines and get posted somewhere in the middle of nowhere, can you imagine working 30 year old fat slobs who just lost their job back to shape for national security? i cant.

[Kobe24Forever]

LOL LOL LOL kobefornever has been watching too much of Red Dawn.

the US has mastered stealth technology, which will render radar-guided missiles useless. the first thing the US would do is take out the radar towers - then bombs away.

btw, the US has other shit like cruise missiles and bombers that simply outrun missiles

pls do ur research on missiles before you throw out nonsense like cruise missiles, it actually makes u all the more ignorant :blah

[MannyIsGod]

How are SAMS going to avoid ARMs?

How our AEW dominance going to change?

[The Reckoning]

:jack to outdated commie warfare.

in ww2, the russians beat back the germans at stalingrad by pumping out superior tanks during their winter offensive

[ChumpDumper]

Quality thread.

Galileo convinced me long ago that our DEW can annihilate several city blocks invisibly and without a trace, so we got this shit covered.

[Kobe24Forever]

How are SAMS going to avoid ARMs?

How our AEW dominance going to change?

how are you going to avoid longer range more devastating arms and aew?

[ChumpDumper]

:jack to outdated commie warfare.

in ww2, the russians beat back the germans at stalingrad by pumping out superior tanks during their winter offensiveRussia beat back the Germans because it was fucking cold.

[Kobe24Forever]

:jack to outdated commie warfare.

in ww2, the russians beat back the germans at stalingrad by pumping out superior tanks during their winter offensive

do a research on battle of stalingrad before you throw out tanks, 3 mill german soldiers against 1 million russian troops, tanks had nothing to do with that.

[MannyIsGod]

oh in conjunction with your estimated over 1 trillion dollar bailout program, dont forget that is a -1 trillion on ur national reserve, you obviously have no idea how the economy works, if you are broke, you find ways to get back on ur feet and get ur economy moving again, which means finding ways to make money, can you recount how long ago has ur nasa program stalled, the mess you couldnt clean up in iraq because of ineptness? it dont happen by accident kid, you can keep convincing urself otherwise or you can move towards change, the way i see it there''s pretty much no way out unless you drop that mentality, you are not the one making the decisions that is best for ur country the reality is that america now more than ever needs help from countries all over the world to get over their economic slump which includes begging china to help buy them more bonds, it's not a coincidence either that the anti china propaganda before the olympics have cease in this troubled times, or the issue with osetia has cooled, no coincidence at all, i would be damn if ur government is still funding ur military expenditures and leaving ur people hung and dry, there would be a mass exodus if that were to happen, people at Nasa are losing jobs because the government arent funding them anymore, the only jobs they could find is to join the marines and get posted somewhere in the middle of nowhere, can you imagine working 30 year old fat slobs who just lost their job back to shape for national security? i cant.

I think we should use some of that 1 trillion to teach people like you how to use English.

[Kobe24Forever]

I think we should use some of that 1 trillion to teach people like you how to use English.

english isnt going to win this debate, they need to spend some of their debts to teach you how to speak bilingual.

[MannyIsGod]

how are you going to avoid longer range more devastating arms and aew?

....you have no idea what you're taking about.

[MannyIsGod]

english isnt going to win this debate, they need to spend some of their debts to teach you how to speak bilingual.

Wow. Just wow.

[timvp]

lol Russia

[The Reckoning]

its like reading faulker all over again. one sentence paragraphs kill me.

[Obstructed_View]

:lol @ Laker fan.

[The Reckoning]

do a research on battle of stalingrad before you throw out tanks, 3 mill german soldiers against 1 million russian troops, tanks had nothing to do with that.

i know its wiki, but you used youtube.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Uranus

the T-34 was the backbone of the offensive. why dont you go back to history class before you make an idiot of yourself?

[baseline bum]

:lol @ Laker fan.

He's a pretty typical Kobe fan. :lol

Those Russians were badasses in Afghanistan. We're truly fucked when they enlist all their mafia and mail-order brides for the big war.

[baseline bum]

oh in conjunction with your estimated over 1 trillion dollar bailout program, dont forget that is a -1 trillion on ur national reserve, you obviously have no idea how the economy works, if you are broke, you find ways to get back on ur feet and get ur economy moving again, which means finding ways to make money, can you recount how long ago has ur nasa program stalled, the mess you couldnt clean up in iraq because of ineptness? it dont happen by accident kid, you can keep convincing urself otherwise or you can move towards change, the way i see it there''s pretty much no way out unless you drop that mentality, you are not the one making the decisions that is best for ur country the reality is that america now more than ever needs help from countries all over the world to get over their economic slump which includes begging china to help buy them more bonds, it's not a coincidence either that the anti china propaganda before the olympics have cease in this troubled times, or the issue with osetia has cooled, no coincidence at all, i would be damn if ur government is still funding ur military expenditures and leaving ur people hung and dry, there would be a mass exodus if that were to happen, people at Nasa are losing jobs because the government arent funding them anymore, the only jobs they could find is to join the marines and get posted somewhere in the middle of nowhere, can you imagine working 30 year old fat slobs who just lost their job back to shape for national security? i cant.

This should answer all ur concerns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run_on_sentence)

[nsrammstein]

if the US really wanted to, they could fuck up the world in less than 24hrs and get it on its knees bowing down to them

[Kobe24Forever]

if the US really wanted to, they could fuck up the world in less than 24hrs and get it on its knees bowing down to them

Says the insignificant angela merkel lapdog. :blah u guys turn from nazi germany to flowerchild from war blemishes in just a little over a decade.

[Extra Stout]

How dare American question might of most Holy Orthodox Mother Russia! You cannot withstand force of our members! American propaganda machine not save you from magic water and war most crumble in few years also! Tsar Vladimir make down put with mere flex of his muscles! Is outrage!

[romad_20]

Kobe24Forever have you ever worked with foreign military? Have you ever been in the US military and had access to intel briefings? If you had you wouldn't be talking out of your ass so much right now.

[Kobe24Forever]

Kobe24Forever have you ever worked with foreign military? Have you ever been in the US military and had access to intel briefings? If you had you wouldn't be talking out of your ass so much right now.

no and the funny thing is you haven't either, listen and learn.
-6tCERl5tQI

listen to this interview clip, and tell me i am wrong, and watch this as it shows ur country is being run by some morons.
2I0QN-FYkpw

i am a realist as peter schiff would say, you keep denying the problem, it wont go away, it will only get worst, like it or not, people like the positives of things often, negativity irks em and they refuse to see the truth, basic human psychology, few people are above that sadly, and as i said more so than ever america needs other countries to bail em out, whether it's gonna happen or not depends very much on how much Obama or the United States can regain the trust and respect they have lost from other nations less an era of arrogance will soon be replaced by an era of deep shitted depression, keep living in a world of delusion.

[MannyIsGod]

You're full of shit dude. You posted a damn YouTube video claiming that the end of US military dominance was going to come at the hands of SAMs and new aircraft. Except that the advertised ranges of those SAMs are bullshit because they're not going to detect our planes that far out and if they have their radar running on a constant basis they are not going to last very long.

Even if they're not going to run their radar often they're not going last very long considering the huge edge we have over EVERYONE in battlefield intelligence. Those SAMs aren't going to be able to deal with the cheap drones we can put up like the Predator and they're going to be discovered easily and taken out. SAMs are a tactical weapon, not a stratic one and they're certainly not going to change the air dominance we have. Take a look at Kosovo to see how a modern air defense network of Russian design holds up to our air power.

As for those "new" planes? They're the same generation as those "legacy" fighters mentioned in the video and are a BIG step down from the JSF and F22 which is what we're currently rolling out. So yeah, not worried. Not to mention that I'd take F15s with AWACS over those things with shit for AEW.

[Kobe24Forever]

You're full of shit dude. You posted a damn YouTube video claiming that the end of US military dominance was going to come at the hands of SAMs and new aircraft. Except that the advertised ranges of those SAMs are bullshit because they're not going to detect our planes that far out and if they have their radar running on a constant basis they are not going to last very long.

Even if they're not going to run their radar often they're not going last very long considering the huge edge we have over EVERYONE in battlefield intelligence. Those SAMs aren't going to be able to deal with the cheap drones we can put up like the Predator and they're going to be discovered easily and taken out. SAMs are a tactical weapon, not a stratic one and they're certainly not going to change the air dominance we have. Take a look at Kosovo to see how a modern air defense network of Russian design holds up to our air power.As for those "new" planes? They're the same generation as those "legacy" fighters mentioned in the video and are a BIG step down from the JSF and F22 which is what we're currently rolling out. So yeah, not worried. Not to mention that I'd take F15s with AWACS over those things with shit for AEW.

ahh another one of those dipshit who makes stuff up of nothing to feel better about themselves, cheap drones like the predator? never heard of it, sounds cheap though, i guess you are regressing to ancient millitary warfare is that what you mean? Sams are a tactical weapon? what happens when u deploy a few thousand of them at once? you are making up theories that even as i research into these military stuff i couldnt comprehend, it's pathetic, and as mentioned the current russian chinese aircraft has far surpassed the F22, and they are designing new prototypes that will take that edge even further, and you know what, why would you take an f15 over an aircraft more advance than f22s, are u so full of yourself? or ur just born a moron:rolleyes

[MannyIsGod]

LOL

Ok, I'm done responding to the troll who's never heard of the predator.

[101A]

world war 2 was a war won in stalingrad,

WWII was won in the factories in the United States, producing Tanks, Planes & Ships at a pace unprecedented, and unimaginable before.

The U.S. was underestimated; both its resolve, willingness to sacrifice its people for a just cause, AND in it capacity to produce weapons.

Stop listening to your isolated, agenda - driven professor (or teacher), and actually LEARN FROM HISTORY.

[Kobe24Forever]

ahh another one of those dipshit who makes stuff up of nothing to feel better about themselves, cheap drones like the predator? never heard of it, sounds cheap though, i guess you are regressing to ancient millitary warfare is that what you mean? Sams are a tactical weapon? what happens when u deploy a few thousand of them at once? you are making up theories that even as i research into these military stuff i couldnt comprehend, it's pathetic, and as mentioned the current russian chinese aircraft has far surpassed the F22, and they are designing new prototypes that will take that edge even further, and you know what, why would you take an f15 over an aircraft more advance than f22s, are u so full of yourself? or ur just born a moron:rolleyes

maybe your too high on drugs all the time, maybe it's ur culture, who knows, you do know the drugs or cocaine you got are smuggled in by mexicans and colombians the triads and the mafias right? it's funny to see you guys having these so called tough ghetto drug war, when ur gangs are all fakes as well, you guys have been too sheltered in ur own little world to realize that, you dont grow drugs on trees as in amsterdam you nkow? everytime i hear some punk talk ghetto it makes me lmao, i say these guys are tough guys with guns they shoot each other kill each other over drugs and so called tough neighbourhood crap but the real bosses are the ones that cartel ur shit in.:rolleyes

[Kobe24Forever]

WWII was won in the factories in the United States, producing Tanks, Planes & Ships at a pace unprecedented, and unimaginable before.

The U.S. was underestimated; both its resolve, willingness to sacrifice its people for a just cause, AND in it capacity to produce weapons.

Stop listening to your isolated, agenda - driven professor (or teacher), and actually LEARN FROM HISTORY.

oh pls do explain further :) i like you to tell that to 20 mill russians who lost their lives defeating the nazis, and also i like you to tell that to a feww hundred thousand japs who lost their lives for ur in competence in ground combat, the russian would have joined the usa in invading japan but no..they needed to shoot off that secret weapon, that was well documented what you told me was pure bullshit.

[101A]

maybe your too high on drugs all the time, maybe it's ur culture, who knows, you do know the drugs or cocaine you got are smuggled in by mexicans and colombians the triads and the mafias right? it's funny to see you guys having these so called tough ghetto drug war, when ur gangs are all fakes as well, you guys have been too sheltered in ur own little world to realize that, you dont grow drugs on trees as in amsterdam you nkow? everytime i hear some punk talk ghetto it makes me lmao, i say these guys are tough guys with guns they shoot each other kill each other over drugs and so called tough neighbourhood crap but the real bosses are the ones that cartel ur shit in.:rolleyes

:downspin:

[Kobe24Forever]

:downspin:

dont worry it's not the cia that supplies the niggas with drugs so they get put into penitiary like the gangsta rap will have you beieve :lol

[101A]

oh pls do explain further :) i like you to tell that to 20 mill russians who lost their lives defeating the nazis, and also i like you to tell that to a feww hundred thousand japs who lost their lives for ur in competence in ground combat, the russian would have joined the usa in invading japan but no..they needed to shoot off that secret weapon, that was well documented what you told me was pure bullshit.

If we hadn't stepped in, Russia would have fallen.

Russia was invaded, they fought admirably and well; as would we have, if it had come to that - but, hell, it never did - we beat them in their own backyard - WHILE we were kicking ass accross the Pacific, with, in a lot of cased, entirely DIFFERENT tactics and weapons platforms!

[101A]

dont worry it's not the cia that supplies the niggas with drugs so they get put into penitiary like the gangsta rap will have you beieve :lol


What the fuck are you talking about?

[Kobe24Forever]

If we hadn't stepped in, Russia would have fallen.

Russia was invaded, they fought admirably and well; as would we have, if it had come to that - but, hell, it never did - we beat them in their own backyard - WHILE we were kicking ass accross the Pacific, with, in a lot of cased, entirely DIFFERENT tactics and weapons platforms!

you are retarded, the war was won before you even step in, all u did was pearl harbour, the russians were already kicking the german ass around that time freame, u stepped in as the allies were gathering on the offensive, and would have won with or without ur help, all u did was bomb japan, thats it.

[DarkReign]

What the fuck are you talking about?

Do you really need to ask?

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

[Kobe24Forever]

What the fuck are you talking about?

the fuck i am talking about is people die getting crack into ur country so that u could smoke em, or sell em, ur local druglord is nothing but a puny middleman. we are not talking bout the mafias who ran new york in 20s.

[MannyIsGod]

My crack dealer grows his own rock in his closet.

[Extra Stout]

Russians win most patriotic war! Your ancient bombs and guns and planes not stand for against might our bleeding bodies! Our not population have but not soft with your GameBoys and jeans! Hard Russian winter not make us soft! Weak America not can even grow own cocaine need Colombians! Outrage!

[Kobe24Forever]

My crack dealer grows his own rock in his closet.

and when he gets busted he starts rapping about policemen, and you can damn sure be assured those are grade shit crack :lol

[DarkReign]

you are retarded, the war was won before you even step in, all u did was pearl harbour, the russians were already kicking the german ass around that time freame, u stepped in as the allies were gathering on the offensive, and would have won with or without ur help, all u did was bomb japan, thats it.

Is this the same mother Russia that would give one soldier a gun, the next soldier the ammo and then have the commanding officers shoot the soldiers who dared retreat?

Is that the same industrial powerhouse, able to churn out all needed arms in the face of foreign invasion?

Some industrial powerhouse. Couldnt even manufacture enough guns to defend Stalingrad...or is it Volgograd, now?

Ahh, who the fuck knows with Russia. Today we're communist, now we're capitalist, today we're USSR, now we're Russian Federation, today you live in Stalingrad, whoops, I mean Volgograd.

Make up your minds, red. The current wealth of yur country is directly tied to the cost per barrel of oil. Why do you think Russian leaders are so eager to broker a new world financial system with the Chinese and India? Even your leaders know your newfound prominence is linked with the cost of oil and natural gas. As soon as demand drops or the supply runs out, you'll be relegated to your usual role of backwater, underdeveloped shithole of the Great North with bad music and unshaven women, who will in time be carried by the Hindus and Buddhists.

[Kobe24Forever]

Is this the same mother Russia that would give one soldier a gun, the next soldier the ammo and then have the commanding officers shoot the soldiers who dared retreat?

Is that the same industrial powerhouse, able to churn out all needed arms in the face of foreign invasion?

Some industrial powerhouse. Couldnt even manufacture enough guns to defend Stalingrad...or is it Volgograd, now?

Ahh, who the fuck knows with Russia. Today we're communist, now we're capitalist, today we're USSR, now we're Russian Federation, today you live in Stalingrad, whoops, I mean Volgograd.

Make up your minds, red. The current wealth of yur country is directly tied to the cost per barrel of oil. Why do you think Russian leaders are so eager to broker a new world financial system with the Chinese and India? Even your leaders know your newfound prominence is linked with the cost of oil and natural gas. As soon as demand drops or the supply runs out, you'll be relegated to your usual role of backwater, underdeveloped shithole of the Great North with bad music and unshaven women.


Learn about the battle of stalingrad before you talk to me, yes it's the same, the comander will kill anyone who tries to retreat or show signs of weakness, it's a necessity in a harsh war, the russians are outnumbered, outequipped and won that war, they use what you call a shovel to great effectiveness pummelling those shell shocked nazis into meat pulps, doesnt help that hitler was a dumb tactician, and the german troops are stranded and demoralize but a victory of that magnitude is one that deserve recognition, not the american late late intervention that paints them as savior, if they have awoken to the nazi threat earlier millions of lives could be saved but as usual the american historians will take all credit for what they deserve or do not deserve.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

All this talk of Stalingrad on Spurstalk and no one has yet to bring up the most important American contribution to turning the tide on the Nazis : SPAM! :spam:

Kruschev credits it with keeping the army fed in the harsh winter battle. When weather turned it into a war of attrition supplies became every bit as important as man power.

Either way, I'm not sweating this shit. Swayze may be damn near dead, but Charlie Sheen is older and wiser, and only a great fool would fuck with C. Thomas Howell. If those two are with us who could stand against us?

[I Love Me Some Me]

english isnt going to win this debate, they need to spend some of their debts to teach you how to speak bilingual.

:rollin

I was done with this thread after that.

:lol

[Kobe24Forever]

Is this the same mother Russia that would give one soldier a gun, the next soldier the ammo and then have the commanding officers shoot the soldiers who dared retreat?

Is that the same industrial powerhouse, able to churn out all needed arms in the face of foreign invasion?

Some industrial powerhouse. Couldnt even manufacture enough guns to defend Stalingrad...or is it Volgograd, now?

Ahh, who the fuck knows with Russia. Today we're communist, now we're capitalist, today we're USSR, now we're Russian Federation, today you live in Stalingrad, whoops, I mean Volgograd.

Make up your minds, red. The current wealth of yur country is directly tied to the cost per barrel of oil. Why do you think Russian leaders are so eager to broker a new world financial system with the Chinese and India? Even your leaders know your newfound prominence is linked with the cost of oil and natural gas. As soon as demand drops or the supply runs out, you'll be relegated to your usual role of backwater, underdeveloped shithole of the Great North with bad music and unshaven women, who will in time be carried by the Hindus and Buddhists.

the oil supply and prices will not drop, maybe you should learn a little about economics, it's it a slump right now because of the financial instability but if anything it will rise as other commodity falls, the demand will be shorter but there's other countries like dubai and Eu nations and China and India that demads oil consumption, it will not break a country, just observe ur exon or whatever oil companies u have there they are not the ones in trouble.

[Extra Stout]

Stalingrad showed that the most patriotic thing Russians do for their country is dying. It is how they have kept their nation safe.

In light of that, Russians have figured out that they can keep their country safe long-term by simply dying off en masse. The UN estimates that Russia's population will have shrunk by one-third by 2050. This is why Kobe24Forever struts with such bravado. He knows the relentless dying of the Russian people will make them invincible. I imagine that last living Russian person in the year 2100 or so will be all but omnipotent.

[doobs]

Stalingrad showed that the most patriotic thing Russians do for their country is dying. It is how they have kept their nation safe.

In light of that, Russians have figured out that they can keep their country safe long-term by simply dying off en masse. The UN estimates that Russia's population will have shrunk by one-third by 2050. This is why Kobe24Forever struts with such bravado. He knows the relentless dying of the Russian people will make them invincible. I imagine that last living Russian person in the year 2100 or so will be all but omnipotent.

In Soviet Russia, country die for you

[DarkReign]

I imagine that last living Russian person in the year 2100 or so will be all but omnipotent.

:lmao

[DarkReign]

it will not break a country, just observe ur exon or whatever oil companies u have there they are not the ones in trouble.

Exxon Mobil: Biggest profit in history Oct. 30, 2008 (http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/30/news/companies/exxon_earnings/index.htm?eref=rss_topstories)

...and we talk out of our ass.

[RandomGuy]

Ever wondered why the propaganda machine that is the USA media has stopped quoting issues about south osetia and tibet? This video pretty much sums it up.

:sleep

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106813

I believe the Georgian president summed it up fairly well:

"Russian soliders are poorly trained, poorly equipped, and mostly drunk, but there are a LOT of them."


Russian forces entering South Ossetia lacked even basic intelligence regarding Georgian artillery positions and troop deployments, which led several of their leading units into costly ambushes. In one surprise attack, the 58th Army's senior commander, Gen. Anatoly Khrulyev, was badly wounded and had to be evacuated.

In a desperate effort to get information, the Russians sent an electronic reconnaissance version of the Tupolev Tu-22M Backfire bomber over the battlefield and it got shot down. In all, Russia lost four planes, including three Sukhoi Su-25 attack fighters to unexpectedly effective Georgian air defenses. Some Russian commanders reported using cellphones to communicate with their units when their own radios failed.

Additionally, the tanks deployed by the Russian Army did not have night sights for their guns, and the reactive armor designed to protect them from Georgian antitank weapons proved unreliable.

[RandomGuy]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106817

At the end of the Cold War, the Soviet Union had a total population of nearly 290 million, and a Gross National Product estimated at about $2.5 trillion. At that time, the United States had a total population of nearly 250 million, with a Gross Domestic Product of about $5.2 trillion. That is, the population of the United States was smaller than that of the Soviet Union, with an economy that was only twice that of the Soviet Union. Two decades later, Russia's population is about 140 million, with a GDP of about $1.3 trillion, while the population of the United States is over 300 million, with a GDP of $13 trillion. Today, the population of the United States is twice that of Russia, and the US economy is ten times as large.

That is to say, with considerably more advantageous population and economic resources, the Soviet Union was destroyed by the effort to remain a peer competitor with the United States during the Cold War. Presently, with relatively more modest resources, it is beyond the capacity of the Russian Federation to mount any sustained challenge to the United States beyond the immediate area of the former Soviet Union.

In August 2008 Russia sent tanks and troops to South Ossetia and Abkhazia after Georgia launched a major military offensive to reclaim the breakaway republics. This was the culmination of months of escalation by both sides. Russia saw the events in South Ossetia in the larger context of a widening confrontation with the West, and in particular the United States. Russia sought this confrontation for a variety of reasons, including providing an appropriate context for a resumption of spending on military hardware, which ended with the breakup of the Soviet Union. Asked whether the fighting will influence the pace of Russia's army modernization, Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy head of the General Staff said on Thursday 14 August 2008 that the country would "draw serious conclusions" from the events.

The confrontation in Georgia is part of a larger pattern of events in which Russia has sought confrontation with the West. On a whole range of issues, from Kosovo independence to missile defense facilities in central Europe, Russia has taken an extremely confrontational stance towards the United States in particular. The common theme is that Russia faces a clear and present danger from its traditional foe, and that after a time of prostration, the bear is back.

This renewed emphasis on external security threats and the need for a strong military is one component of the emerging image of the Russian state held by Russian policy circles. Gazing across the centuries in search of role models to replace the discredited liberal model of the 1990s, a powerful state headed by a powerful leader in command of a powerful army would seem to be the consistent precedent offered by both Czars and Commisars. The power of the leader has been restored, and too the state, but not the military.

The Russians stopped buying new military hardware nearly 20 years ago. So the Russians now are increasingly keen to find enemies and threats everywhere [Georgia, Poland, etc] to justify a major increase in procurement of military hardware. The Russian problem is four-fold:


If Russia does not undertake a massive increase in military spending soon, their military will be about as capable as the Pope's Switzers - nice to look at, but no threat to anyone. This the Party of Power does not like to contemplate. The armored forces are equipped with a large number of tanks of various kinds, but very few meet modern standards. The average Russian tank is over 20 years old, and a significant number are 40 years and older. Much the same can be said of Russian combat aircraft, which were for the most part designed in the 1970s and built in the 1980s.

Since the end of the Cold War, Russian defense industry has largely relied on international sales to stay in business. During the Cold War it was said that American military hardware was 10 years ahead of the Soviets and 25 years ahead of the Chinese. Now the Chinese have pulled just ahead of the Russians [the Chinese seem to have more Flankers than the Russians], the latest CHICOM guided missile destroyer has RCS reduction features like the US Arleigh Burke, but more extensive than anything on a Russian major surface combatant, and the CHICOM ASAT test in Jan 2007 was a more sophisticated technology than anything the Soviets ever tested, etc etc. Having sold the Chinese the store and the factory, Russian industry is losing their best customers. By 2004, India had become the owner of a larger number of modern Russian tanks than the Russian army itself. India had 310 modern T-90s, while Russia had no more than 150 T-90s at that time. By 2008 Russia had 321 Su-27 Flankers, and plan to buy no more. The Chinese had 420 Su-27 Flankers, and planned to buy hundreds more. Russia's arms exports grew from less than $3 billion in 2000 to $6.1 billion in 2007. At that time Rosoboronexport, the Russian arms exporter, had around $20 billion worth of contracts, which would ensure the operation of defense-industry enterprises for another five to seven years. But the end of Russian reliance on international sales to sustain the industrial base is in sight. A total of 237 billion rubles (US$ 8.8 billion) was set aside for military arms and equipment in 2006, as compared with 183 billion rubles (US$ 6.7 billion) the previous year.

The longer the erosion of the Russian defense industrial base is allowed to continued, the more difficult it will be to halt and reverse the decay. A substantial fraction of the workforce drifted away some time ago, in search of better career opportunities, and those who remain are generally older workers contemplating retirement. Increasingly elderly design and production facilities are suited for legacy weapons, rather than world standard designs. Oil and natural gas exports have had the perverse effect of encouraging the imports of European manufactured goods, leading to the de-industralization of the Russian economy. The emerging Russian Rust Belt cannot sustain a world class machine tool industry, which would be the foundation on which a Russian arms industry might be revived.

Oil and natural gas revenues will not solve this problem. Petroleum revenues to the Russian state budget total about $100 billion annually, with no substantial increase in prospect, and decline forecast by some. The Russian military budget has doubled in recent years, from $25 billion in 2006 to $50 billion in 2009. But this compares to a US military budget of over $600 billion annually. In 2006 2006 a new state armaments program, which will span 2007-2015, was agreed upon for an estimated 4.9 trillion rubles (US$186 billion). OF that total, 63% [$117 B] was to be allocated over nine years for the procurement of modern weapons and euipment and 27% [[$69 B]] towards defense research and development. In Fiscal Year 2007, the US defense budget for that year alone was $134 Billion for procurement and $77 Billion for research and development.

Russia’s efforts to transform its Soviet-legacy military into a smaller, lighter and more mobile force continue to be hampered by an ossified military leadership, discipline problems, limited funding and demographics. Some steps by the Government of Russia suggested a desire to reform. There has been an increased emphasis on practical training, such as the Mobility 2004 Exercises, and the government is introducing bills to improve the organization of the military.

Despite increases in the budget, however, defense spending remains entirely inadequate to sustain Russia’s oversized military. Current troop strength, estimated at one million, is large in comparison to Russia's GDP and military budget, which continues to make the process of transformation to a professional army difficult. This was in part the result of the Soviet legacy and military thinking that has changed little since the Cold War. Senior Russian leaders continue to emphasize a reliance on a large strategic nuclear force capable of deterring a massive nuclear attack.

In 2002, a conscript’s salary was only 100 rubles a month, or roughly $3.50. Theoretically, the army provides all necessities, however, housing and food shortages continue to plague the armed forces. Problems with both discipline and brutal hazing are common as well. HIV infection rates in the Russian army are estimated to be between two to five times higher than in the general population, and tuberculosis is a persistent problem.

Such conditions and the poor combat performance of the Russian Armed Forces in the Chechen conflict encouraged draft evasion and efforts to delay their military service. Although the available manpower (males 15-49) for the Russian Armed Forces was projected at 39.1 million in 2004, only a tenth of eligible males did military service. Moreover, military officials complained that new recruit cohorts are plagued by increasingly incidences of poor education, communicable diseases and criminality. That is to say, when only a tenth of the draft eligible cohort reports for duty, this is the bottom tenth of the cohort that lacked the mental acuity to evade military service.

The Russian government has stated a desire to convert to a professional army. However, implementation has been delayed repeatedly. Current plans envision a transition to a mixed force, in which professional soldiers fill the ranks of select units and conscription is gradually phased out. Some officials have talked of developing a non-commissioned officer corps to lead the professional army, but the military has yet to make any concrete investments in training or facilities that would begin this process.

While the weakness of the 1990s is gone and forgotten, Russia cannot regain the status of great power.

Besides interfering in Ukrainian political affairs, Russia exerted pressure on pro-Western Georgia, supporting separatists in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. By refusing to withdraw Russian troop, Russia also encouraged separatism in Moldova's Transdniester region. And Russia has directed threatening rhetoric at the new-NATO Baltic states (Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia.)

The challenge is trying to understand the sources of Russian conduct [as Kennan might have termed the matter].

If recent Russian behavior is just symptomatic of tit-for-tat escalation, what Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates called the Russians " throwing their food on the floor", then the Americans can avoid provocations, continue business as usual, reconsider BMD in central Europe, and "getting Russia right" as some Europeans have suggested.

If recent Russian behavior is symptomatic of Russian imperial nostalgia, and a belief on their part that they need a much stronger military establishment in order to assert their natural sphere of influence within the boundaries of the empire circa 1914, then their hostility is almost entirely self-generated, and is beyond the capacity of external actors to placate.

[Kobe24Forever]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106817

At the end of the Cold War, the Soviet Union had a total population of nearly 290 million, and a Gross National Product estimated at about $2.5 trillion. At that time, the United States had a total population of nearly 250 million, with a Gross Domestic Product of about $5.2 trillion. That is, the population of the United States was smaller than that of the Soviet Union, with an economy that was only twice that of the Soviet Union. Two decades later, Russia's population is about 140 million, with a GDP of about $1.3 trillion, while the population of the United States is over 300 million, with a GDP of $13 trillion. Today, the population of the United States is twice that of Russia, and the US economy is ten times as large.

That is to say, with considerably more advantageous population and economic resources, the Soviet Union was destroyed by the effort to remain a peer competitor with the United States during the Cold War. Presently, with relatively more modest resources, it is beyond the capacity of the Russian Federation to mount any sustained challenge to the United States beyond the immediate area of the former Soviet Union.

In August 2008 Russia sent tanks and troops to South Ossetia and Abkhazia after Georgia launched a major military offensive to reclaim the breakaway republics. This was the culmination of months of escalation by both sides. Russia saw the events in South Ossetia in the larger context of a widening confrontation with the West, and in particular the United States. Russia sought this confrontation for a variety of reasons, including providing an appropriate context for a resumption of spending on military hardware, which ended with the breakup of the Soviet Union. Asked whether the fighting will influence the pace of Russia's army modernization, Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy head of the General Staff said on Thursday 14 August 2008 that the country would "draw serious conclusions" from the events.

The confrontation in Georgia is part of a larger pattern of events in which Russia has sought confrontation with the West. On a whole range of issues, from Kosovo independence to missile defense facilities in central Europe, Russia has taken an extremely confrontational stance towards the United States in particular. The common theme is that Russia faces a clear and present danger from its traditional foe, and that after a time of prostration, the bear is back.

This renewed emphasis on external security threats and the need for a strong military is one component of the emerging image of the Russian state held by Russian policy circles. Gazing across the centuries in search of role models to replace the discredited liberal model of the 1990s, a powerful state headed by a powerful leader in command of a powerful army would seem to be the consistent precedent offered by both Czars and Commisars. The power of the leader has been restored, and too the state, but not the military.

The Russians stopped buying new military hardware nearly 20 years ago. So the Russians now are increasingly keen to find enemies and threats everywhere [Georgia, Poland, etc] to justify a major increase in procurement of military hardware. The Russian problem is four-fold:


If Russia does not undertake a massive increase in military spending soon, their military will be about as capable as the Pope's Switzers - nice to look at, but no threat to anyone. This the Party of Power does not like to contemplate. The armored forces are equipped with a large number of tanks of various kinds, but very few meet modern standards. The average Russian tank is over 20 years old, and a significant number are 40 years and older. Much the same can be said of Russian combat aircraft, which were for the most part designed in the 1970s and built in the 1980s.

Since the end of the Cold War, Russian defense industry has largely relied on international sales to stay in business. During the Cold War it was said that American military hardware was 10 years ahead of the Soviets and 25 years ahead of the Chinese. Now the Chinese have pulled just ahead of the Russians [the Chinese seem to have more Flankers than the Russians], the latest CHICOM guided missile destroyer has RCS reduction features like the US Arleigh Burke, but more extensive than anything on a Russian major surface combatant, and the CHICOM ASAT test in Jan 2007 was a more sophisticated technology than anything the Soviets ever tested, etc etc. Having sold the Chinese the store and the factory, Russian industry is losing their best customers. By 2004, India had become the owner of a larger number of modern Russian tanks than the Russian army itself. India had 310 modern T-90s, while Russia had no more than 150 T-90s at that time. By 2008 Russia had 321 Su-27 Flankers, and plan to buy no more. The Chinese had 420 Su-27 Flankers, and planned to buy hundreds more. Russia's arms exports grew from less than $3 billion in 2000 to $6.1 billion in 2007. At that time Rosoboronexport, the Russian arms exporter, had around $20 billion worth of contracts, which would ensure the operation of defense-industry enterprises for another five to seven years. But the end of Russian reliance on international sales to sustain the industrial base is in sight. A total of 237 billion rubles (US$ 8.8 billion) was set aside for military arms and equipment in 2006, as compared with 183 billion rubles (US$ 6.7 billion) the previous year.

The longer the erosion of the Russian defense industrial base is allowed to continued, the more difficult it will be to halt and reverse the decay. A substantial fraction of the workforce drifted away some time ago, in search of better career opportunities, and those who remain are generally older workers contemplating retirement. Increasingly elderly design and production facilities are suited for legacy weapons, rather than world standard designs. Oil and natural gas exports have had the perverse effect of encouraging the imports of European manufactured goods, leading to the de-industralization of the Russian economy. The emerging Russian Rust Belt cannot sustain a world class machine tool industry, which would be the foundation on which a Russian arms industry might be revived.

Oil and natural gas revenues will not solve this problem. Petroleum revenues to the Russian state budget total about $100 billion annually, with no substantial increase in prospect, and decline forecast by some. The Russian military budget has doubled in recent years, from $25 billion in 2006 to $50 billion in 2009. But this compares to a US military budget of over $600 billion annually. In 2006 2006 a new state armaments program, which will span 2007-2015, was agreed upon for an estimated 4.9 trillion rubles (US$186 billion). OF that total, 63% [$117 B] was to be allocated over nine years for the procurement of modern weapons and euipment and 27% [[$69 B]] towards defense research and development. In Fiscal Year 2007, the US defense budget for that year alone was $134 Billion for procurement and $77 Billion for research and development.

Russia’s efforts to transform its Soviet-legacy military into a smaller, lighter and more mobile force continue to be hampered by an ossified military leadership, discipline problems, limited funding and demographics. Some steps by the Government of Russia suggested a desire to reform. There has been an increased emphasis on practical training, such as the Mobility 2004 Exercises, and the government is introducing bills to improve the organization of the military.

Despite increases in the budget, however, defense spending remains entirely inadequate to sustain Russia’s oversized military. Current troop strength, estimated at one million, is large in comparison to Russia's GDP and military budget, which continues to make the process of transformation to a professional army difficult. This was in part the result of the Soviet legacy and military thinking that has changed little since the Cold War. Senior Russian leaders continue to emphasize a reliance on a large strategic nuclear force capable of deterring a massive nuclear attack.

In 2002, a conscript’s salary was only 100 rubles a month, or roughly $3.50. Theoretically, the army provides all necessities, however, housing and food shortages continue to plague the armed forces. Problems with both discipline and brutal hazing are common as well. HIV infection rates in the Russian army are estimated to be between two to five times higher than in the general population, and tuberculosis is a persistent problem.

Such conditions and the poor combat performance of the Russian Armed Forces in the Chechen conflict encouraged draft evasion and efforts to delay their military service. Although the available manpower (males 15-49) for the Russian Armed Forces was projected at 39.1 million in 2004, only a tenth of eligible males did military service. Moreover, military officials complained that new recruit cohorts are plagued by increasingly incidences of poor education, communicable diseases and criminality. That is to say, when only a tenth of the draft eligible cohort reports for duty, this is the bottom tenth of the cohort that lacked the mental acuity to evade military service.

The Russian government has stated a desire to convert to a professional army. However, implementation has been delayed repeatedly. Current plans envision a transition to a mixed force, in which professional soldiers fill the ranks of select units and conscription is gradually phased out. Some officials have talked of developing a non-commissioned officer corps to lead the professional army, but the military has yet to make any concrete investments in training or facilities that would begin this process.

While the weakness of the 1990s is gone and forgotten, Russia cannot regain the status of great power.

Besides interfering in Ukrainian political affairs, Russia exerted pressure on pro-Western Georgia, supporting separatists in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. By refusing to withdraw Russian troop, Russia also encouraged separatism in Moldova's Transdniester region. And Russia has directed threatening rhetoric at the new-NATO Baltic states (Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia.)

The challenge is trying to understand the sources of Russian conduct [as Kennan might have termed the matter].

If recent Russian behavior is just symptomatic of tit-for-tat escalation, what Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates called the Russians " throwing their food on the floor", then the Americans can avoid provocations, continue business as usual, reconsider BMD in central Europe, and "getting Russia right" as some Europeans have suggested.

If recent Russian behavior is symptomatic of Russian imperial nostalgia, and a belief on their part that they need a much stronger military establishment in order to assert their natural sphere of influence within the boundaries of the empire circa 1914, then their hostility is almost entirely self-generated, and is beyond the capacity of external actors to placate.


i have no time to read that dumb long article, but i can figure it's just another media propaganda put out before, and have shut up since then, i also read about a new cold war you are making me laugh, here's what you will have to deal with, i can just list one country that can take down usa alone wiht ease, china can russia can, and then there's the SCO, so many countries on that list including india and pakistan than would should join the coalition, wtf that makes nato<---btw nato is just a name, it really havent done shit at all, dont forget argentina and venezuala will never side with the americans, germany is weak, britain will proberbly pussy out, and you are left all alone, because without money without military command you are nothing even the UN is losing respect for the USA, and getting more vocal about their distrust for them, keep buying into your nazi like propaganda :blah

[RandomGuy]

All the youtube videos and propaganda videos in the world will not
1) enable russia to build effective unmanned fighter drones,
2) enable russia to build tanks that stand a chance against an M1, or for that matter, against the 40 year old A-10 Warthog.
3) enable russia to build a plane that can compete against an f-22, or for that matter, and F-117
4) solve russias horrendous personnel problems.
5) create an senior officer corps that is worth a shit
6) train a new generation of engineers to design these new weapon systems
7) modernize and expand the industrial base to be able to build the new weapons systems.
8) etc
9) etc
10) etc

[RandomGuy]

i have no time to read that dumb long article, but i can figure it's just another media propaganda put out before, and have shut up since then, i also read about a new cold war you are making me laugh, here's what you will have to deal with, i can just list one country that can take down usa alone wiht ease, china can russia can, and then there's the SCO, so many countries on that list including india and pakistan than would should join the coalition, wtf that makes nato<---btw nato is just a name, it really havent done shit at all, dont forget argentina and venezuala will never side with the americans, germany is weak, britain will proberbly pussy out, and you are left all alone, because without money without military command you are nothing even the UN is losing respect for the USA, and getting more vocal about their distrust for them, keep buying into your nazi like propaganda :blah


Such conditions and the poor combat performance of the Russian Armed Forces in the Chechen conflict encouraged draft evasion and efforts to delay their military service. Although the available manpower (males 15-49) for the Russian Armed Forces was projected at 39.1 million in 2004, only a tenth of eligible males did military service. Moreover, military officials complained that new recruit cohorts are plagued by increasingly incidences of poor education, communicable diseases and criminality. That is to say, when only a tenth of the draft eligible cohort reports for duty, this is the bottom tenth of the cohort that lacked the mental acuity to evade military service.

[Extra Stout]

But but but... China! Surely China will go to war against the U.S. so the Russians can feel better about themselves.

[Kobe24Forever]

The united states marines are made of aproximately 1 in 5 gay men, they are poorly trained and demand to have buttsex every now and then or they will sue for money, the marines have been known to chicken out and run when the going gets tough while screaming like little girls.

quoted from the fucking CIA, dont tell me where i got it or else i have to kill you.

[RandomGuy]

i have no time to read that dumb long article, but i can figure it's just another media propaganda put out before,

The article says there will not be a new cold war. Russia is simply incapable of doing so.

I am not "anti-Russian" by any means. I do not think very highly of Putin, but understand the desire not to have your country suck. I welcome a responsible, peaceful Russia into the community of nations, and into the world economy.

If you don't want to read something that points out the weaknesses of your military, that is your business, and actually a good thing for the West, because if you and most Russians remain ignorant of your military's shortcomings you can't fix them, and should push come to shove, I would much rather face the current shitty Russian military than an improved one that has taken an honest look at its failings, and moved to fix it.

[RandomGuy]

But but but... China! Surely China will go to war against the U.S. so the Russians can feel better about themselves.

Yeah, I mean the Chinese surely value the $64 billion's worth of Russian trade per year more than the $600 billion's worth of trade with Western Europe and the US...

They are all buddy buddy, right?

[Kobe24Forever]

All the youtube videos and propaganda videos in the world will not
1) enable russia to build effective unmanned fighter drones,
2) enable russia to build tanks that stand a chance against an M1, or for that matter, against the 40 year old A-10 Warthog.
3) enable russia to build a plane that can compete against an f-22, or for that matter, and F-117
4) solve russias horrendous personnel problems.
5) create an senior officer corps that is worth a shit
6) train a new generation of engineers to design these new weapon systems
7) modernize and expand the industrial base to be able to build the new weapons systems.
8) etc
9) etc
10) etc

very stupid when it's proven the Su-37 is technologically superior then ur puny f22 and the sukhoi pak fa is soon to be finished in production it's called a 5 generation aircraft for a reason and f22 a mid 3rd to 4th generation aircraft at best, it's just not up to standards with the latest 4th generation sukhoi fighters, that is enough you make it sound so easy and hypothetical when it comes to war, it's useless talking to someone like that.

[RandomGuy]

i have no time to read that dumb long article, but i can figure it's just another media propaganda put out before, and have shut up since then, i also read about a new cold war you are making me laugh, here's what you will have to deal with, i can just list one country that can take down usa alone wiht ease, china can russia can, and then there's the SCO, so many countries on that list including india and pakistan than would should join the coalition, wtf that makes nato<---btw nato is just a name, it really havent done shit at all, dont forget argentina and venezuala will never side with the americans, germany is weak, britain will proberbly pussy out, and you are left all alone, because without money without military command you are nothing even the UN is losing respect for the USA, and getting more vocal about their distrust for them, keep buying into your nazi like propaganda :blah

Nationalists are so darn cute.

"anything that says anything bad about my country is silly propaganda, and anything that says my perceived enemies are a bunch of spineless ineffectual pussies must be true"

:rolleyes

GMAFB

[dougp]

All the youtube videos and propaganda videos in the world will not
1) enable russia to build effective unmanned fighter drones,
2) enable russia to build tanks that stand a chance against an M1, or for that matter, against the 40 year old A-10 Warthog.
3) enable russia to build a plane that can compete against an f-22, or for that matter, and F-117
4) solve russias horrendous personnel problems.
5) create an senior officer corps that is worth a shit
6) train a new generation of engineers to design these new weapon systems
7) modernize and expand the industrial base to be able to build the new weapons systems.
8) etc
9) etc
10) etc

Unfortunately the A-10 and F-117 are being retired - rather terrible idea IMO to retire the A-10 though. The amount of military technology the US has compared to Russia is amazing, those fancy new Suhkoi's have nothing on the F-22 for several reason - and one of them is the AWACS. Not only will the F-22 be stealthy, but they will also not have to use radar - one of the biggest ways to give yourself away is to activate it. Chances are the Russians will be using radar, and you can then use radar-homing missles - something that can't be avoided unless you turn off your radar. Oh, but guess what then - you will definently not see them coming. At that point, they'll have their choice of what to pick you apart with. Russia has severely gone downhill since the 80s because their economy couldn't keep up with the US - blame communism there. I mean seriously, why the hell do they still fly the Bear?

Oh, and the Russians killed more of their own people than the Germans did - I guess it can be considered by-proxy if you want to blame the Germans, but the Russians did burn their own farms and houses causing millions to starve. Awesome nation you have there! :lmao :lol :downspin::rollin

[Kobe24Forever]

Yeah, I mean the Chinese surely value the $64 billion's worth of Russian trade per year more than the $600 billion's worth of trade with Western Europe and the US...

They are all buddy buddy, right?

you owe the chinese 1 trillion in debts and they still have over 1 trillion in national reserve, in technicality they can buyout ur country, with that 1 trillion reserve, when it comes to war, you can be damn sure the chinese and russian will fight side by side, you will be in deep shit if they decide not to buy any more bonds from you, and that is proberly what is gonna happen, and even if they do they will make sure u get screwed in some kind of a deal, you have no leverage economically, and they are already making a huge lost doing trades with the usa, that same mistake will not happen again. Keep deceiving urself.

[Kobe24Forever]

you owe the chinese 1 trillion in debts and they still have over 1 trillion in national reserve, in technicality they can buyout ur country, with that 1 trillion reserve, when it comes to war, you can be damn sure the chinese and russian will fight side by side, you will be in deep shit if they decide not to buy any more bonds from you, and that is proberly what is gonna happen, and even if they do they will make sure u get screwed in some kind of a deal, you have no leverage economically, and they are already making a huge lost doing trades with the usa, that same mistake will not happen again. Keep deceiving urself.

but like i say keep deceiving urself, russian and china has been trading military technology with each other, but not the usa, there is a reason why, i think it dont take a genious to figure that out.

[doobs]

This guy is fucking with you. Stop feeding the troll.

[Kobe24Forever]

Unfortunately the A-10 and F-117 are being retired - rather terrible idea IMO to retire the A-10 though. The amount of military technology the US has compared to Russia is amazing, those fancy new Suhkoi's have nothing on the F-22 for several reason - and one of them is the AWACS. Not only will the F-22 be stealthy, but they will also not have to use radar - one of the biggest ways to give yourself away is to activate it. Chances are the Russians will be using radar, and you can then use radar-homing missles - something that can't be avoided unless you turn off your radar. Oh, but guess what then - you will definently not see them coming. At that point, they'll have their choice of what to pick you apart with. Russia has severely gone downhill since the 80s because their economy couldn't keep up with the US - blame communism there. I mean seriously, why the hell do they still fly the Bear?

Oh, and the Russians killed more of their own people than the Germans did - I guess it can be considered by-proxy if you want to blame the Germans, but the Russians did burn their own farms and houses causing millions to starve. Awesome nation you have there! :lmao :lol :downspin::rollin

ur awacs or whatever that is i dont bother to do research on that has as in that video displayed been made obsolete, keep making up nonexistence theory to make urself feel better.

[clambake]

"they use shovels to turn germans into meat pulps"

:lol now thats just damn funny. :toast

[Kobe24Forever]

This guy is fucking with you. Stop feeding the troll.

pls note that i am enjoying this debate in a civil and honest manner, but i am sick of getting dishonest uneducated answers from some trolls on this board.

[dougp]

ur awacs or whatever that is i dont bother to do research on that has as in that video displayed been made obsolete, keep making up nonexistence theory to make urself feel better.


http://www.orchidaccessories.co.uk/catalog/images/9.5cm%20Round%20Black%20Pot1.jpg meet http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000Store/images/accessories/kettles/blackkettlesolo300.jpg

/thread

[Kobe24Forever]

"they use shovels to turn germans into meat pulps"

:lol now thats just damn funny. :toast

an account from a german nazi soldier, they were much tougher then us when it comes to close combat, we were no match from them, it's detailed in a video documentary.

[Bigzax]

what difference does it make?

shouldn't we all be more concerned with 3rd world jihadists sneaking nukes in briefcases into our country?

[RandomGuy]

very stupid when it's proven the Su-37 is technologically superior then ur puny f22 and the sukhoi pak fa is soon to be finished in production it's called a 5 generation aircraft for a reason and f22 a mid 3rd to 4th generation aircraft at best, it's just not up to standards with the latest 4th generation sukhoi fighters, that is enough you make it sound so easy and hypothetical when it comes to war, it's useless talking to someone like that.


The Su-37 prototype aircraft? The one that hasn't been built yet and is still in the protype stage?

The one based on the su-27s that first flew in 1977?

It is a good aircraft, and if deployed in large numbers by sufficiently trained aircrews might be able to shoot down a few F-22's.

The US military has over a hundred F-22's currently in service. Meaning that by the time any large number of Su-37's were moved from prototypes to actual production models, the F-22 will have been in service with all the flight testing and kinks worked out for a good decade.

135 on-deck fifth generation jet fighters against what? 2 fourth generation prototypes?

Again, you can believe whatever you wish, but you can't magic-up an industrial base capable of building advanced fighter aircraft in any numbers, no matter how much faith you have in your country. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

[Kobe24Forever]

The Su-37 prototype aircraft? The one that hasn't been built yet and is still in the protype stage?

The one based on the su-27s that first flew in 1977?

It is a good aircraft, and if deployed in large numbers by sufficiently trained aircrews might be able to shoot down a few F-22's.

The US military has over a hundred F-22's currently in service. Meaning that by the time any large number of Su-37's were moved from prototypes to actual production models, the F-22 will have been in service with all the flight testing and kinks worked out for a good decade.

135 on-deck fifth generation jet fighters against what? 2 fourth generation prototypes?

Again, you can believe whatever you wish, but you can't magic-up an industrial base capable of building advanced fighter aircraft in any numbers, no matter how much faith you have in your country. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

su-37 is not a prototype dumbass, it's been in production for many years, and numbered in the thousand, you shouldnt make up lies to supplement on own theories.

[RandomGuy]

ur awacs or whatever that is i dont bother to do research on that has as in that video displayed been made obsolete, keep making up nonexistence theory to make urself feel better.

Command and control is never obsolete.

AWACS = E-3 sentry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_Sentry

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/Usaf.e3sentry.750pix.jpg/800px-Usaf.e3sentry.750pix.jpg

Advances in information technology is making the system obsolete, and it would not surprise me that the functions of this aircraft serves will eventually be moved to more secure, ground-based CNC centers, but for now, it does provides some pretty vital functions.

[Kobe24Forever]

whatever let the reality sink in that you are no longer a superpower and will no longer police the world with hypocrisy, the next few years will tell you alot, trust me i know what i am talking about, have fun being a subordinate.

[RandomGuy]

su-37 is not a prototype dumbass, it's been in production for many years, and numbered in the thousand, you shouldnt make up lies to supplement on own theories.

You are thinking of the SU-27, not the Su-37.

Please provide a source for the statement that there are thousands of Su-37's in service.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-37


Role Multirole fighter
Manufacturer Sukhoi
First flight 2 April 1996
Primary user Russian Air Force
Number built 2 conversions from Su-27s[1]
Developed from Sukhoi Su-27


You may or may not like wikipedia as a source, but feel free to provide some countervailing source of your own.

By the way son, if you want to go toe-to-toe in military hardware and affairs with an ex-army intel analyst, you will have to bring some better game than you have shown here.

[RandomGuy]

Now the Su-27 that you claim "thousands" of, has had about 680 built in the 24+ years the design has been around, according to wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-27

[Kobe24Forever]

You are thinking of the SU-27, not the Su-37.

Please provide a source for the statement that there are thousands of Su-37's in service.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-37




You may or may not like wikipedia as a source, but feel free to provide some countervailing source of your own.

By the way son, if you want to go toe-to-toe in military hardware and affairs with an ex-army intel analyst, you will have to bring some better game than you have shown here.

i dont have to bring any game, when you all u gave me was an obsolete awacs shit, thx :) you got no game of ur own make some adjustment to ur knowledge, and stop researching wikipedia it makes u sound like a real moron when u keep doing that.

[MannyIsGod]

LOL this guy is actually a pretty awesome troll. I definitely like his posting style.

[Kobe24Forever]

Now the Su-27 that you claim "thousands" of, has had about 680 built in the 24+ years the design has been around, according to wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-27

ur an ex aarmy intel from ur wikipedia owned desktop, if you have any real intel you will know u cant fund ur military for shit, that is why other countries have surpassed you :lmao

[Kobe24Forever]

back to the subject i still love kobe bryant and the lakers go lakers go, it's not a charade, even if america goes into, i will continue watching the nba, hopefully a 3peat before the nba shuts down for good.

[RandomGuy]

the oil supply and prices will not drop, maybe you should learn a little about economics, it's it a slump right now because of the financial instability but if anything it will rise as other commodity falls, the demand will be shorter but there's other countries like dubai and Eu nations and China and India that demads oil consumption, it will not break a country, just observe ur exon or whatever oil companies u have there they are not the ones in trouble.

Meh. Russian oil production, even when prices were $US150+ per barrel was sliding. Lost about 2% of overall production in the most current year that they released figures, 2006-2007.

You can also beleive what you want, but once you deplete an oilfield, it is gone, and all the faith in the world will not bring it back.

[RandomGuy]

i dont have to bring any game, when you all u gave me was an obsolete awacs shit, thx :) you got no game of ur own make some adjustment to ur knowledge, and stop researching wikipedia it makes u sound like a real moron when u keep doing that.

Feel free to post a source for your information then.

Please provide a link showing the current number of Su-37's in the Russian arsenal.

I'll wait.

[RandomGuy]

LOL this guy is actually a pretty awesome troll. I definitely like his posting style.

Definitely worthy troll material. Sorta fun to play with, but likely to get boring pretty quick. Most one-shtick trolls do. :p:

[RandomGuy]

world war 2 was a war won in stalingrad,

Now that I would agree with. If I had to pick one pivotal battle that made or broke it, that would be it.

[dougp]

Command and control is never obsolete.

AWACS = E-3 sentry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_Sentry



Advances in information technology is making the system obsolete, and it would not surprise me that the functions of this aircraft serves will eventually be moved to more secure, ground-based CNC centers, but for now, it does provides some pretty vital functions.

Can't/won't happen - it might transition into a drone based role with people on the ground using the instruments, but the AWACS goes places we can't put in ground based surveillance with the power it has. Oh, and it's more than a radar plane, we use it to spy! :)

[RandomGuy]

Russia beat back the Germans because it was fucking cold.

The t-34 had a lot to do with it. It was a fairly decent tank produced in huge numbers that outclassed the PzkW IV for a good year or two before the germans could counter it.

[RandomGuy]

english isnt going to win this debate, they need to spend some of their debts to teach you how to speak bilingual.

Wir koennen alles auf Deutch reden, ob sie wollen. ;)

[RandomGuy]

Stalingrad showed that the most patriotic thing Russians do for their country is dying. It is how they have kept their nation safe.

In light of that, Russians have figured out that they can keep their country safe long-term by simply dying off en masse. The UN estimates that Russia's population will have shrunk by one-third by 2050. This is why Kobe24Forever struts with such bravado. He knows the relentless dying of the Russian people will make them invincible. I imagine that last living Russian person in the year 2100 or so will be all but omnipotent.


At the end of the Cold War, the Soviet Union had a total population of nearly 290 million, and a Gross National Product estimated at about $2.5 trillion. At that time, the United States had a total population of nearly 250 million, with a Gross Domestic Product of about $5.2 trillion. That is, the population of the United States was smaller than that of the Soviet Union, with an economy that was only twice that of the Soviet Union. Two decades later, Russia's population is about 140 million, with a GDP of about $1.3 trillion, while the population of the United States is over 300 million, with a GDP of $13 trillion. Today, the population of the United States is twice that of Russia, and the US economy is ten times as large.

[RandomGuy]

Ok, 'nuff of the fun.

Adios.

[jman3000]

:lmao x 100000 @ thinking India and Pakistan would join the same coalition.

Are you fucking retarded?

Does that question even need to be asked?

[Wild Cobra]

Russia beat back the Germans because it was fucking cold.

Besides that, the Germans were the agressors, and the soldiers obayed out of fear rather than believing in the cause. The Russians were fighting for their homeland.

[jman3000]

I'm leaning towards this guy being Chinese and not Russian.

[RandomGuy]

Russian spies and Anti-Moose and Squirrel technology vill be making you all kneel...

http://wickeddelicious.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/boris_natasha.jpg

We have thousands of magic-water-powered AMS systems now, and silly nazi propaganda is making me laugh at ur dumbness.

[Wild Cobra]

The united states marines are made of aproximately 1 in 5 gay men, they are poorly trained and demand to have buttsex every now and then or they will sue for money, the marines have been known to chicken out and run when the going gets tough while screaming like little girls.

quoted from the fucking CIA, dont tell me where i got it or else i have to kill you.
Is that you Boutons?

[jman3000]

On the post stating that Russia's population has dipped from 290 million to140 million in 20 years... is that possible? Is that just accounting for the lost population due to the satellites breaking off?

Was it the 1-2 generations of baby makig it lost due to WWII?

The number just seems so unfathomable.

[The Reckoning]

He's a pretty typical Kobe fan. :lol

Those Russians were badasses in Afghanistan. We're truly fucked when they enlist all their mafia and mail-order brides for the big war.


more like bride-ordered males

[Yonivore]

And, don't forget the newest kid on the block:

http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060322/060322_spacecom_airbone_hlg.hlarge.jpg

http://gadgetmaniac.mail2web.com/uploads/2308/53267.jpg

[MannyIsGod]

I have no idea what that is but I really hope that dude's name is not Dave.

[Yonivore]

I have no idea what that is but I really hope that dude's name is not Dave.
Airborne Laser. It can kill ICBM's in the launch or boost phase; or it can kill you as you sit on the can reading porn.

[MannyIsGod]

Nice - are they planning to mount that on a plane?

[jman3000]

Airborne Laser. It can kill ICBM's in the launch or boost phase; or it can kill you as you sit on the can reading porn.

can it kill you on the pot while youre in launch phase?

[jman3000]

i'd imagine a plane delivery system would be too slow to respond... unless you planned on keeping an airplane on patrol indefinately. either that or it has a crazy range.

[Yonivore]

i'd imagine a plane delivery system would be too slow to respond...
Not necessarily, depending on deployment strategy and number of resources in the air.


unless you planned on keeping an airplane on patrol indefinately.
What do you think we did for damn near 40 years? There are a lot of B-52 pilots from the Cold War that spent more time in the air than on the ground.


...either that or it has a crazy range.
Well, there's that too.

[RandomGuy]

Nice - are they planning to mount that on a plane?

It is already mounted on the plane.

Don't think that military hardware gurus aren't drooling over the next generation of batteries either.

Honest to God Laser-mother-fucking-rifles, biyatches.

Combine battery technology with the military pushing for individual units to have their own solar collectors, and you have infantry units that don't need to be supplied with bullets, and have a line-of-sight laser rifles capable of burning a hole through your head at thousands of meters.

Sniper school will never be the same...

[Yonivore]

It is already mounted on the plane.

Don't think that military hardware gurus aren't drooling over the next generation of batteries either.

Honest to God Laser-mother-fucking-rifles, biyatches.

Combine battery technology with the military pushing for individual units to have their own solar collectors, and you have infantry units that don't need to be supplied with bullets, and have a line-of-sight laser rifles capable of burning a hole through your head at thousands of meters.

Sniper school will never be the same...
End of our military dominance my hairy ass.

[Blake]

how did this thread go 5 pages in less than a day.....

definitely not the end of USA posting dominance

[jman3000]

What do you think we did for damn near 40 years? There are a lot of B-52 pilots from the Cold War that spent more time in the air than on the ground.



id imagine it woud have to be done in shifts... keeping such a big aircraft aloft for so long just doesnt sound very healthy from a mechanical point of view. i know you can refuel in midair.. but you cant do engine inspections and what not.

[2centsworth]

WWII was won in the factories in the United States, producing Tanks, Planes & Ships at a pace unprecedented, and unimaginable before.

The U.S. was underestimated; both its resolve, willingness to sacrifice its people for a just cause, AND in it capacity to produce weapons.

Stop listening to your isolated, agenda - driven professor (or teacher), and actually LEARN FROM HISTORY.

a big reason why the Auto Manufacturers are important.

[smeagol]

Quality entertainment thread :tu

[AFBlue]

What an entertaining thread....and so factually inaccurate I don't even know where to start.

How about the technology gap...

The F-22 can outmaneuver any operational SU aircraft. But it doesn't even matter, because the F-22 has a vastly superior avionics suite. The radar on the F-22 is so good they had to modify the current AIM-9 (missle) to travel farther. Let's just say, while the SU-27 is doing backflips the F-22 has targeted it from a couple hundred miles out, fired its missles, and is on its way back to home base by the time the SU gets lit up.

And the funny thing is...the F-22 isn't even the most advanced aircraft in development. Someone mentioned the F-117 retiring. The F-117, our first-gen stealth aircraft, has flown missions for damn near 20 years and is out the door. Meanwhile, the US has produced it's second gen (F-22) and is onto its third generation of stealth fighters (F-35). Where is Russia at with their stealth technology again...in development?

And what about Russia's UAV program...in development?

That doesn't even begin to discuss the gap in training, which is by and large where the US gains its most significant strategic advantage.

No, I sincerely doubt the US will surrender its Air Supremacy anytime in the near future, and I wouldn't put the Russians at the top of the list for countries that would represent a challenge.

[Yonivore]

What an entertaining thread....and so factually inaccurate I don't even know where to start.

How about the technology gap...

The F-22 can outmaneuver any operational SU aircraft. But it doesn't even matter, because the F-22 has a vastly superior avionics suite. The radar on the F-22 is so good they had to modify the current AIM-9 (missle) to travel farther. Let's just say, while the SU-27 is doing backflips the F-22 has targeted it from a couple hundred miles out, fired its missles, and is on its way back to home base by the time the SU gets lit up.

And the funny thing is...the F-22 isn't even the most advanced aircraft in development. Someone mentioned the F-117 retiring. The F-117, our first-gen stealth aircraft, has flown missions for damn near 20 years and is out the door. Meanwhile, the US has produced it's second gen (F-22) and is onto its third generation of stealth fighters (F-35). Where is Russia at with their stealth technology again...in development?

And what about Russia's UAV program...in development?

That doesn't even begin to discuss the gap in training, which is by and large where the US gains its most significant strategic advantage.

No, I sincerely doubt the US will surrender its Air Supremacy anytime in the near future, and I wouldn't put the Russians at the top of the list for countries that would represent a challenge.
Well said.

[AFBlue]

Unfortunately the A-10 and F-117 are being retired - rather terrible idea IMO to retire the A-10 though. The amount of military technology the US has compared to Russia is amazing, those fancy new Suhkoi's have nothing on the F-22 for several reason - and one of them is the AWACS. Not only will the F-22 be stealthy, but they will also not have to use radar - one of the biggest ways to give yourself away is to activate it. Chances are the Russians will be using radar, and you can then use radar-homing missles - something that can't be avoided unless you turn off your radar. Oh, but guess what then - you will definently not see them coming. At that point, they'll have their choice of what to pick you apart with. Russia has severely gone downhill since the 80s because their economy couldn't keep up with the US - blame communism there. I mean seriously, why the hell do they still fly the Bear?

Oh, and the Russians killed more of their own people than the Germans did - I guess it can be considered by-proxy if you want to blame the Germans, but the Russians did burn their own farms and houses causing millions to starve. Awesome nation you have there! :lmao :lol :downspin::rollin

Not sure where you're getting your info from....but the A-10 isn't going anywhere for a while.

And it's a very good thing!

http://worldweapons.org/home/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/800px-a10shark.jpg

I, for one, wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of this bad boy.

[Heath Ledger]

I was an electronics tech in the Navy who worked on Missiles and combat systems, you people really need to stop playing armchair general because you don't know jackshit about what we have unless its something you've read about or seen on some shitty youtube video.

[romad_20]

Not sure where you're getting your info from....but the A-10 isn't going anywhere for a while.

And it's a very good thing!


Air Support, oh so close to my heart

R. econ
O. beserve
M. ark
A. nd
D. estroy

Don't fuck with a hog and a Romad, russian bitches!

[AFBlue]

Air Support, oh so close to my heart

R. econ
O. beserve
M. ark
A. nd
D. estroy

Don't fuck with a hog and a Romad, russian bitches!

Added a nice pic for you...

That GAU-8...very close to my heart.

[AFBlue]

I was an electronics tech in the Navy who worked on Missiles and combat systems, you people really need to stop playing armchair general because you don't know jackshit about what we have unless its something you've read about or seen on some shitty youtube video.

Some on here do know jackshit.

[romad_20]

Added a nice pic for you...

That GAU-8...very close to my heart.

Buuuuuuurrrrp! and gone.


The one thing I miss about the AF is my actually job, the rest sucked :lol

[AFBlue]

Buuuuuuurrrrp! and gone.


The one thing I miss about the AF is my actually job, the rest sucked :lol

I hear you.

But, I'll never forget the first time I saw and heard it fire. Just a beast, especially when compared to the 20mm.

[romad_20]

I hear you.

But, I'll never forget the first time I saw and heard it fire. Just a beast, especially when compared to the 20mm.

The 20mm is for pussies, lol. I actually loved them all.

Funny story about the 30mm. I was doing an exercise out at some shitty reserve base in Missouri and I was calling in an airstrike on a column of tanks (it was dummy tanks on a range) and there were two deer beside them. When I cleared them hot, one of the deer must have jumped 15 feet straight up, and the other..... turned into a very fine pink mist. Yes, it was cruel but reinforced to me what that weapon could do to a soft target that happened to get in the way. Two weapons I'd never want to be on the receiving end of, the GAU and any cluster bomb.

[AFBlue]

The 20mm is for pussies, lol. I actually loved them all.

Funny story about the 30mm. I was doing an exercise out at some shitty reserve base in Missouri and I was calling in an airstrike on a column of tanks (it was dummy tanks on a range) and there were two deer beside them. When I cleared them hot, one of the deer must have jumped 15 feet straight up, and the other..... turned into a very fine pink mist. Yes, it was cruel but reinforced to me what that weapon could do to a soft target that happened to get in the way. Two weapons I'd never want to be on the receiving end of, the GAU and any cluster bomb.

:rollin

Awesome.

When they test-fire them at an open range they have to clear the airspace because the dummy rounds can ricochet off the burm up to 18K feet. :wow

The only plane that was design-built around the gun...God I love it!

[balli]

Y'know. This jackass's thread really brought together the left and the right in a way that usually isn't so congenial. Here's to the collective feeling that we're still some badass mofo's here in America :toast

[Yonivore]

Y'know. This jackass's thread really brought together the left and the right in a way that usually isn't so congenial. Here's to the collective feeling that we're still some badass mofo's here in America :toast

Yep, we can turn a terrorist into "pink mist" but God forbid we pretend drowned him.

[Blake]

you military boys talking all this high tech stuff is making me feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside.

makes me want to throw up my American flag right now.

U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A

[AFBlue]

Y'know. This jackass's thread really brought together the left and the right in a way that usually isn't so congenial. Here's to the collective feeling that we're still some badass mofo's here in America :toast


Yep, we can turn a terrorist into "pink mist" but God forbid we pretend drowned him.

And, back to your respective corners....:lol

[AFBlue]

Y'know. This jackass's thread really brought together the left and the right in a way that usually isn't so congenial. Here's to the collective feeling that we're still some badass mofo's here in America :toast

:toast

[DarrinS]

Don't have a point -- just a cool looking video.

CAFCudNNG30

[doobs]

What about sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads?

[ChumpDumper]

We're comparing national military strengths with a guy who never heard of the predator?

[dougp]

Sorry, my bad - it isn't up for retirement. There was a possibility but it looks like they extended the service date on it. As a matter of fact, they're upgrading it!

http://www.hill.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123082180
http://www.spacemart.com/reports/Boeing_Awarded_Two_Billion_Dollar_A_10_Wing_Contra ct_999.html

And uhm, what makes the JSF a 3rd generation stealth plane compared to the F-22? I was under the impression that technology wise, they're the "same" aircraft but for different missions (F-22 for AF and JSF for Navy/Marines.) And isn't the F-117 technical 2nd gen stealth technology with the SR-71 being first gen and the B-2 being 3rd gen?

[Heath Ledger]

Handheld pulse laser weaponry is on the Horizon boys and girls, it may take 15-20 years but its definitely coming to a battleground near you.

[Kobe24Forever]

i am just glad i provoke such sentiments, i have never seen such unified americans on the internet in a long time :), it's a wonderful sight to behold, and this thread will lead america back to it's former glory, jeez enough of this sappy bullshit and lets get back to point, broke nation, broken down space programe, stagnanted military programe, end of story. talk all you want, just wait till the end of this year or the next the truth will much more evident yet, keep staying positive, country of all talk and inaction.

[Kobe24Forever]

by the end of 2009, this thread will emerge again, till then we can talk about how right i was, when countries like saudi arabia and china stop buying bond from you, you are hoping they would cause you owe these countries alot of money, but they wont because if a disaster of such magnitude happen again they would be in deep shit too, it means ur left hung and dry, and if you know economics, it wont mean years of poverty and recession, no more importing gooods from other countries, mass unemployment, self sufficiency(which you americans arent acustom with), by that time you will know i am right, but you can start talking alot of bullshit to make urself feel better now, if you understand world economics, you will know what i mean.

[The Reckoning]

Handheld pulse laser weaponry is on the Horizon boys and girls, it may take 15-20 years but its definitely coming to a battleground near you.

all we need now is a death star

[Kobe24Forever]

Sorry, my bad - it isn't up for retirement. There was a possibility but it looks like they extended the service date on it. As a matter of fact, they're upgrading it!

http://www.hill.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123082180
http://www.spacemart.com/reports/Boeing_Awarded_Two_Billion_Dollar_A_10_Wing_Contra ct_999.html

And uhm, what makes the JSF a 3rd generation stealth plane compared to the F-22? I was under the impression that technology wise, they're the "same" aircraft but for different missions (F-22 for AF and JSF for Navy/Marines.) And isn't the F-117 technical 2nd gen stealth technology with the SR-71 being first gen and the B-2 being 3rd gen?

these morons who dont know much about the military are throwing everything they could to make a case for themselves, searching wikipedia and pasting it makes me laugh, one guy even clain an su-37 was a prototype cause he searched wikipedia, and i didnt even want to entertain that moron lol, so call military experts are appearing everywhere, i dont claim to be one, cause i dont work for the military, but i can see alot of bullshit and people talking out of their minds crazy anyday :lol

[Kobe24Forever]

oh and i heard of a covet operation within the sco, to develope a secret weapon called the gauss propulsion plasma ejaculator, bukake is coming to town yankees, freedom my ass.

[AFBlue]

Sorry, my bad - it isn't up for retirement. There was a possibility but it looks like they extended the service date on it. As a matter of fact, they're upgrading it!

http://www.hill.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123082180
http://www.spacemart.com/reports/Boeing_Awarded_Two_Billion_Dollar_A_10_Wing_Contra ct_999.html

And uhm, what makes the JSF a 3rd generation stealth plane compared to the F-22? I was under the impression that technology wise, they're the "same" aircraft but for different missions (F-22 for AF and JSF for Navy/Marines.) And isn't the F-117 technical 2nd gen stealth technology with the SR-71 being first gen and the B-2 being 3rd gen?


Didn't mean to come off as a jerk...

It was recently being discussed for retirement, but they decided to extend it (20 more years at this point). They had similar extensions for a portion of the F-15 fleet, both likely stemming from the decision to cut the original number of F-22s to be produced.

Also to your question, it's not the same stealth technology...but it's not earth-shatteringly different (i.e. advancements in radar-absorbent material). And you're right about the missions being different. F-22 was designed to take on F-15 and A-10 missions, while the F-35A (USAF) is supposed to take over the F-16 mission.

About the "generation" thing, that's just the way I was taught. The point I was making is that the US has been heavily invested in stealth technology for decades and has mass-produced operational aircraft proven in wartime, while the Russians are still in the development stage of their first stealth fighter.

Again, sorry if I offended.

[AFBlue]

oh and i heard of a covet operation within the sco, to develope a secret weapon called the gauss propulsion plasma ejaculator, bukake is coming to town yankees, freedom my ass.

Now I know this jagass is a troll...

[AFBlue]

We're comparing national military strengths with a guy who never heard of the predator?

Point taken...although for the last page or so we've just been admiring American-made warfighting technology.

[chode_regulator]

First off, i have to just say my head hurts from reading this thread. also, how the fuck is anyone from any country outside the us making fun of our space program? ehhhh, how many other countries have one like ours? how many other countries are on teh verge of having a private sector send people into space routinely?


LOL

Ok, I'm done responding to the troll who's never heard of the predator.

anyone who is claiming military knowledge and doesnt know about the predator or other UAV's is waaaayyyy behind the times. i cant even begin to tell you how many of those damn things are all over the skies of iraq. literally everywhere. in our intel briefs for just our AO in iraq, there was at least a dozen at any given time.


and when he gets busted he starts rapping about policemen, and you can damn sure be assured those are grade shit crack :lol

i dont get why he's making fun of our drugs? like our country is shit bc the crack where he's from is better? :downspin: plus i thought you dont smuggle crack, i thought you take coke and make crack. ive never done it so i dont know.


The united states marines are made of aproximately 1 in 5 gay men, they are poorly trained and demand to have buttsex every now and then or they will sue for money, the marines have been known to chicken out and run when the going gets tough while screaming like little girls.

quoted from the fucking CIA, dont tell me where i got it or else i have to kill you.


:rolleyes ok. look at any war or confilct from the beginning of the USA til now and tell me the marines havent done more with less. half the shit we have is hand me downs from teh army, and turn it aorund and make it better. plus this gay war in iraq would be over if the US could fight it the way wars should be fought. go in, annihilate enemies country, dominate them, break their will and pull out. if the american military has any fault, its taht they dont learn from mistakes in teh past.

on to my points

who cares if russia sells fighters to other countries, they ahve to have pilots capable of flying them. prime exasmple of this backfiring would be the vietnam war. granted we lost alot of planes, but if their AF had been properly trained it would have been way worse.
secondly, dont act like the f15 and 16 are our primary fighters. this fag never even mentions the f18, which has its own flaws. but form my understanding the eagle is on teh way out the door and the falcon might not be too far behind. not real sure on that as i dont follow the AF too close, but from what ive read and seen, teh f22 dominates the 15 so bad it looks like a russian fighter.
third,howthe fuck are sam's going to be the downfall of air superiority? what a joke. have you ever heard of electronic jamming? ever wonder why the E6 flies nonstop 24 hrs a day in iraq righ tnow? not for fun, and def not to drop any bombs.

not to mention you havent even talked at all about helicopters. i mean the apache, cobra and huey are all badass helo's. and they arent afraid to fly low and slow and destroy everything in sight. have you ever haerd of a GAU 17? or seen what an attack helo can carry for ordinance?

and lololololololol at saying india and paki would ever be allies. at lesat in my lifetime.

[Anti.Hero]

The world is in for some heavy ass shit once we perfect the invisibility body armor.


Here's to a couple intelligent people escaping the American school system to keep us up top :toast:toast:toast:toast:toast

[chode_regulator]

oh yeah how does someone who started a thread based off a vid on youtube make fun of poeple for posting info from wikipedia? i was unaware that scholars deemed youtube to be of higher esteem

also quick tidbit on hte predator, on e of many UAV's we have to deploy.

An Iraqi MiG-25 shot down a Predator performing reconnaissance over the no fly zone in Iraq on 23 December 2002, after the Predator fired a missile at it. This was the first time in history a conventional aircraft and a drone had engaged in combat. Predators had been armed with AIM-92 Stinger air-to-air missiles, and were being used to "bait" Iraqi fighter planes, then run. In this incident, the Predator didn't run, but instead fired one of the Stingers. The Stinger's heat-seeker became "distracted" by the MiG's missile and so missed the MiG, and the Predator was destroyed. [33][34]
During the initial phases of the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq, a number of older Predators were stripped down and used as decoys to entice Iraqi air defenses to expose themselves by firing.[3][33]
From July 2005 to June 2006, the 15th Reconnaissance Squadron participated in more than 242 separate raids, engaged 132 troops in contact-force protection actions, fired 59 Hellfire missiles; surveyed 18,490 targets, escorted four convoys, and flew 2,073 sorties for more than 33,833 flying hours

of particular to note is the second point, the point of using them as decoys to have the enemy give away positions.

[SnakeBoy]

Sort of on this topic, did any of you see Dan Rather's report (episode was called Battle Plan)? It was on the future plans for our military. Some in the pentagon and congress want to add 100k troops for operations such as Iraq. This would come at the expense of developing better high tech weapons. I believe it was Evan Bayh on the program that wanted to shelve programs such as the F22 to pay for the additional troops. I hope they don't go that route or kobe24 may end up being right. One of the critics of the plan described it as focusing on swatting flies while the vultures circle overhead.

Here's the program description....


HDNet's 'Dan Rather Reports' Takes a Look Inside the Pentagon's Future Plans
for War
Episode to investigate how decisions are made - and not questioned - within
the walls of the Pentagon

DALLAS, Sept. 15 /PRNewswire/ -- How does this country decide future war
strategies? In this Tuesday's "Dan Rather Reports: Battle Plan" the program
will shed some light on how the Pentagon is making decisions to prepare the
United States to fight more wars like those in Iraq and Afghanistan -- wars
against counterinsurgency.
(Logo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20080324/HDNETLOGO)
The Pentagon is internally debating and ultimately deciding what kind of
armed forces America is to have in the future -- and what kind of wars the
nation will be most prepared to fight. The Pentagon brass believes that we
will need to build up a big, "culturally sensitive" ground force meant to
police cities and occupy foreign territories because that is what is "most
likely" down the road.
Remarkably, few in government outside of the Pentagon are asking critical
questions or even presenting alternative ideas.
Is the U.S. military focusing on preparation for a colonial-style power?
If so, is this a good -- or perhaps even necessary -- way to go? And,
concerning this, what are the wishes of the American people?
"Dan Rather Reports: Battle Plan" we'll take you inside the leading minds
on the issue -- officers, infantrymen, and politicians -- who feel
passionately that how we re-shape our military is a do-or-die question for the
future of the nation itself.

[AFBlue]

Sort of on this topic, did any of you see Dan Rather's report (episode was called Battle Plan)? It was on the future plans for our military. Some in the pentagon and congress want to add 100k troops for operations such as Iraq. This would come at the expense of developing better high tech weapons. I believe it was Evan Bayh on the program that wanted to shelve programs such as the F22 to pay for the additional troops. I hope they don't go that route or kobe24 may end up being right. One of the critics of the plan described it as focusing on swatting flies while the vultures circle overhead.

Here's the program description....

It's an interesting point for sure.

Right now the plan is to carry at least a portion of the non-stealth fighters (USAF) out as far as 2035. I think it's likely to be longer for the Navy, since the F/A-18 is newer than any of the USAF non-stealth fighters and they only have one replacement in the pipeline (F-35).

My opinion....get to the point where you have sufficient levels to retire the majority of the non-stealth fleet, and then focus your effort on sustainment of the stealth aircraft.

Again though, it'll be interesting to see where the next administration and congress leans on the budget allocation. What they decide regarding the acquisition and development of new technology will directly impact the sustainment of the stuff that's fighting the war as we speak.

[AFBlue]

One more thing on the F/A-22...it should be noted that the original production numbers were already cut by more than half (thanks to Rummy).

I honestly don't know how much more they can cut it.

[Kobe24Forever]

It's an interesting point for sure.

Right now the plan is to carry at least a portion of the non-stealth fighters (USAF) out as far as 2035. I think it's likely to be longer for the Navy, since the F/A-18 is newer than any of the USAF non-stealth fighters and they only have one replacement in the pipeline (F-35).

My opinion....get to the point where you have sufficient levels to retire the majority of the non-stealth fleet, and then focus your effort on sustainment of the stealth aircraft.

Again though, it'll be interesting to see where the next administration and congress leans on the budget allocation. What they decide regarding the acquisition and development of new technology will directly impact the sustainment of the stuff that's fighting the war as we speak.

well said now procure $$, if ur national treasury is in the -2trillion all you could do is recruit more jobless people or lazy youths, thats my harsher way of saying things, or suppossed plan about ur military budget.

[ehz33satx]

you make it sound so easy and hypothetical when it comes to war, it's useless talking to someone like that.

Question for you. Is it just as useless as talking to someone who argues about military might like he knows it all, but who has never even heard of the predator uav?
How old are you and what country are you from anyways? I will take bets that you are @ 17 years of age.

[Kobe24Forever]

Question for you. Is it just as useless as talking to someone who argues about military might like he knows it all, but who has never even heard of the predator uav?
How old are you and what country are you from anyways? I will take bets that you are @ 17 years of age.

i find no need to answer that when you are talking to me like a 9 year old, i never claimed to be a military expert, and yes it just hit my head what the predator was a spy drone used in desert storm, always thought i heard of it somewhere but i was like a decade ago, thats ok, i am not one who go search wiki whenever i dont fucking know about something or forgot what that stuff was, all i know is USA will get anilihated if they try shock and awe, lets just say on a country like Iran :)

[ChumpDumper]

i never claimed to be a military expert, and yes it just hit my head what the predator was a spy drone used in desert stormSwing and a miss.

[Kobe24Forever]

Swing and a miss.

i also did a little research found out it's one of those failed projects that was deployed in countries like afganistan, very enlightening.

[Kobe24Forever]

anyways i hope to keep this civil debate going, because bit by bit from this day to the end of next year, you will come to understand what i meant when u trully feel the sting of a complete economic collapse.

[Kobe24Forever]

nLw8Qje0gbw
this is a video i was kinda hesitant to put out because it really stings, basically it means that there's little chance USA can stand back on her feet, and what i said earlier about the debt you owe, and you begging like dogs for countries to bail you out.

[ChumpDumper]

i also did a little research found out it's one of those failed projects that was deployed in countries like afganistan, very enlightening.:lmao

[ehz33satx]

i find no need to answer that when you are talking to me like a 9 year old, i never claimed to be a military expert, and yes it just hit my head what the predator was a spy drone used in desert storm, always thought i heard of it somewhere but i was like a decade ago, thats ok, i am not one who go search wiki whenever i dont fucking know about something or forgot what that stuff was, all i know is USA will get anilihated if they try shock and awe, lets just say on a country like Iran :)

You also did not answer how old you are or what country you are from.
So you won't go on wiki to search info BUT you will watch videos on youtube to learn all that know about the USA and its military might or it's lack there of?

[Rogue]

Speaking out of ur ass means nothing, the russian and chinese troops outnumbered and are much tougher trained than the USA marines thats a given, if it does come down to ground combat it will be a massacre for the usa, if ur ground troops cant even beat back the japanese, till they were forced to drop the atom bomb, lost in the korean and vietnam war, with better technologies, how the fuc do you expect to win a war against these two jugganauts:bang, you are dillusional, or refuse to admit reality, end of story.
I really can't imagine why you use this name but it's really fancinating. Jugganautes is just a fool who has a strong body but no brain. They are jugganauts but we have even more warriors like Logan (wolerine), Pyro, Storm, Scott, ice-man, or even Magneto. without the helmet, the jugganauts is nothing.:downspin:but he's gonna be devastated by Lansher if he wares his helmet to keep his face nice.

[ehz33satx]

And another thing, if your no military expert, which you yourself said, then you should have shut your mouth along time ago. You are spouting all kinds of info but you have no real expertise or knowledge to back up your loud mouth about any of it, because like you said, YOU ARE NO MILITARY EXPERT. So shut your mouth. End of story.

[Kobe24Forever]

You also did not answer how old you are or what country you are from.
So you won't go on wiki to search info BUT you will watch videos on youtube to learn all that know about the USA and its military might or it's lack there of?

i dont need to answer that, as to ur query i am neither russian nor chinese, just someone who is in touch with reality, as to my age, why the hell would you want to know that, you wanna hook up for an ass banging or something?:blah as i said before, bit by bit you will come to understand the implications of running up debt you can never repay, and i for one am glad the world is rid of USA policing and meddling into other countries affair, as to military wont take a rocket scientist to figure out the USA have lost all it's influence against anyone, soon you will see Iran developing nuclear weapons and you wont have the power to stop that, the reason, you have no more say about what goes on around the world, the world is heading into a better direction, a future i am very much looking forward to. India btw is slated to join the SCO soon which means another potential ally which you so desperately seek is cutting it's ties with the USA, you will see this trend continue, korea and japan is already losing it's trust in investing in the usa, the EU will not bail out usa because they have financial problems of their own, but i repeat no one, owes more debt that the USA, it will bite you in the ass, and when reality hits, you will understand what i meant when i said total collapse. Like i said speaking to you morons now is futile, wait till the end of next year there will be massive changes, one that you guys have to fight through, and deal with, something the less priviledge countries have already dealt with and grew stronger from it.

[ChumpDumper]

You know nothing and live nowhere.

[Kobe24Forever]

You know nothing and live nowhere.

Honestly chumper ur a dude i respect since ur an inteligent poster and i am agreeable with alot of post you made in the past, there's not enough of you guys to go around though to save ur sorry ass country, and it's too little too late. being a realist that i am, thats the way i see it.:lol

[ChumpDumper]

Sounds like you aren't even in this country. You'd be much less pessimistic were you actually here.

[DarrinS]

Honestly chumper ur a dude i respect since ur an inteligent poster and i am agreeable with alot of post you made in the past, there's not enough of you guys to go around though to save ur sorry ass country, and it's too little too late. being a realist that i am, thats the way i see it.:lol


It's a little known fact that many sociopaths loathe punctuation and capitalization.

[Blake]

look, Kobe24forever.....

you were obviously wrong when you used to post as Kobe8forever and you are wrong about this too.

If we need the money from the Arabs to take care of our deficit, we will do what we always do. We will go take it from them.

[RandomGuy]

Not sure where you're getting your info from....but the A-10 isn't going anywhere for a while.



No it is not. Both Gulf Wars proved the indespensible lesson that such an aircraft is needed. A hard-won lesson of WW2 comes back.

I imagine that the military is probably working on the next generation of the A-10, a design that orginated in the early 70's.

The updated capabilities of that aircraft, whatever form it will probably take, truly make me shudder when I think of the lethality of such an aircraft and what it will probably be able to do to enemy armored formations.

I see something that looks a lot like the present A-10 with vastly improved engines, an airframe that probably will weigh the same or slightly less, but be made out of carbon composites and be waaaay stronger and better armored, with more advanced manuevering capabilities, and better computer assisted targeting.

Eeek.

[RandomGuy]

these morons who dont know much about the military are throwing everything they could to make a case for themselves, searching wikipedia and pasting it makes me laugh, one guy even clain an su-37 was a prototype cause he searched wikipedia, and i didnt even want to entertain that moron lol, so call military experts are appearing everywhere, i dont claim to be one, cause i dont work for the military, but i can see alot of bullshit and people talking out of their minds crazy anyday :lol

I notice you still haven't posted a link to the production figures for the SU-37, kid.

Still waiting.

[RandomGuy]

Since our teenaged Russian friend likely is too lazy to find some corroborrating evidence to the wiki entry:

http://aeroweb.lucia.it/rap/Features/johnson.html


The main source of the industry’s problems is easy to find: orders from the Russian Federation Air Force (RFAF) are down to almost zero. The same is true of orders from former Warsaw Pact nations. Because RFAF purchases have nearly ceased, production lines have gone idle, and workers are laid off or unpaid. A related problem, which may have greater long-term impact than the closure of some production lines, is a steady decline in the number of new scientists and engineers beginning work in the military–industrial complex. The trend points toward a future shortage of trained specialists in the science-intensive aviation industry.


The SU-37 shows that in some quarters the creativity of Russia’s aircraft designers is unabated. Nevertheless, Russia’s military budget has been hard hit by the country’s economic crisis, and this has translated to severe reductions in aircraft orders. Consequently, neither the SU-37 nor any other new aircraft will enter service in the RFAF in substantial numbers in the foreseeable future.

This was from 1997, however. Current figures for Russian military procurements showed no real spike that would indicate the purchase of "thousands" of new aircraft.

RG continues scouring the web...

[RandomGuy]

Source outside of wikipedia:

Following link is a java link that takes a short time to load, but shows the "Russia-India news"
http://publishing.yudu.com/A5uq5/rbth-29-12-07/resources/6.htm

It does detail a few of the trade issues between the country, such as the indian purchase of 347 new T-90 tanks. (remember the article that I posted that noted that India has more T-90's in service than Russia itself? The one that was "too long" to read?)

It also provides the following quote about the Su-37, transcribed here by yours truly:

"Unfortunately, Russia has so far failed to master production of the purely experimental Su-37, built by Sukhoi at its own expense."

The article, "Russia, India set to develop a fifth-generation fighter" goes on to detail how India turned to Russia after first seeking technology and joint programs on the next generation F-35.

[Heath Ledger]

Kobe Kobe Kobe,

If there is one country on the planet that you shouldn't underestimate it's America. Your doom and gloom picture sounds great on paper however our country has great resolve to overcome our problems both financially and militarily. It sounds like you are trying to paint the coming of the fall of the Roman Empire so to speak for America. I've got news for you, tough times for us means even tougher times for anyone outside of the USA and that will not be changing any time soon. Our country no matter how much in debt we are will spend billions and billions of dollars on our military, even if shit totally hits the fan with our economy we will be the force to be reckoned with. Period. End of story.

[RandomGuy]

Further my research led me to several forums that specialize in debate about the particulars of the aircraft.

The consensus of those forums, and I read through about 4 threads in various aviation/military buff websites goes like this:

The SU-37 is way more manueverable than any other manned aircraft in existance, including the F-22.

This manueverability is also pretty pointless, as the air-to-air missle capability of the F-22, along with its stealth, and ability to detect targets at far greater ranges, means that the F-22 will simply swat the Su-37 out of the sky with a missle barrage and go home.

No human in the world can stand more than a 7G manuever and this limitation is on the human, no matter how good your aircraft. Modern missles can manuever at 30Gs, making such manuevering kind of pointless.

'nuff said. I have now provided two websites giving support to the wikipedia entry.

[RandomGuy]

On the post stating that Russia's population has dipped from 290 million to140 million in 20 years... is that possible? Is that just accounting for the lost population due to the satellites breaking off?

Was it the 1-2 generations of baby makig it lost due to WWII?

The number just seems so unfathomable.

USSR= Russia + Georgia + Ukraine + Baltic Republics + Central Asian Republics +etc.

Russia itself is seeing negative population growth however as living standards have plummeted.

[RandomGuy]

i also did a little research found out it's one of those failed projects that was deployed in countries like afganistan, very enlightening.

:lol

The Predator (see wiki entry here) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MQ-1_Predator) was originally an unmanned drone aircraft, but in recent years was outfitted with anti-tank and anti-air missles.

The US military has gone to the next generation of this aircraft, the Reaper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MQ-9_Reaper) (click for wiki link), with a reinforced airframe (to carry larger payloads) and an engine with about 8 times the horsepower.

Personally I see the future of aircraft in along the lines of the X-45 unmanned fighter aircraft. (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/ucav.htm)

There are good arguments for keeping pilots in some combat aircraft on some missions, but unmanned aircraft WILL be the future of US airpower, simply because they cost so much less, and can do a lot more than manned aircraft.


If anyone, Kobe, can give me the corresponding designations of planned Russian versions of these aircraft, I would love to hear it. :p:

[Yonivore]

So,with the concensus that we're going to remain unparalleled in the air for quite some time, can we turn to other aspects of our military.

The ground game is home to some pretty exciting developments as well:

c5dIaDGUfLI

That's a "Quick Kill" Active Protection System destroying and incoming anti-tank RPG in flight and right after launch; Remote-Control Guided Sniper Round?

Now I would have thought that was pretty much impossible. But I guess it's not.

Pretty awesome!

[Kobe24Forever]

Since our teenaged Russian friend likely is too lazy to find some corroborrating evidence to the wiki entry:

http://aeroweb.lucia.it/rap/Features/johnson.html





This was from 1997, however. Current figures for Russian military procurements showed no real spike that would indicate the purchase of "thousands" of new aircraft.

RG continues scouring the web...

1. Alexander Velovich, “Slow Slow, Quick Quick, Slow—The Sukhoy SU-37 Made a Spectacular Impact,” Flight International, 18–24 September 1996, 41; and David M. North, “Thrust Vectoring SU-37 Demonstrates Agility,” Aviation Week & Space Technology, 9 September 1996, 24.

2. G. Drugoveiko, “Budet Li Rossiya Letat’ V XXI Veke?” Vestnik Vozdushnogo Flota 3, 1995, 2.

3. Gen-Maj N. Anisimov, “Voenniy Byudzhet I Neplatyezhi,” Vestnik Vozdushnogo Flota 3, 1995, 16.

4. Andey Baranovskiy, “Russian Air Force Left without Planes,” Segodnya, 30 March 1995, 2.

5. Interview with Gen-Col Viktor Kot, “U Nas Est’ Moguchiye Krylya,” Krasnaya Zvezda, 17 August 1996, 1–3.

6. Pyotr Deynekin, “Rossiya Byla, Est’, I Budet Velikoy Aviatsionoy Derzhavoy,” Krasnaya Zvezda, 19 August 1995, 1–2; idem, “Voenno-Vozdushniye Sily,” Vestnik Vozdushnogo Flota, 1–2, 1996, 20-21; and idem, “Major Trends and Prospects for Development of Russia’s Air Power,” Military Parade, July–August 1996, 16–17.

7. Zinoviy Pak, “Russian Defense Industry Proceeds with Restructuring,” Aerospace Journal, September–October 1996, 7–8; and Deynekin, 20–21.

8. A. G. Bratukhin et al., Aviastroyeniye Rossii (Moscow: Mashinostoyeniye, 1995), 225.

9. Vitaliy Vitebskiy, “Statistika–VPK v Yanvarye I Fevrale,” Krasnaya Zvezda, 23 March 1996, 3; and “Statistika–VPK v Avguste,” 26 October 1996, 3.

10. Drugoveiko, 2.

11. “Novosti,” Vestnik Vozdushnogo Flota 5–6, 1995, 6; and “Iz Komsomol’ska-Na-Amure—Televizory ‘Goldstar’ Sobirayut Aviastroiteli,” Krasnaya Zvezda, 23 March 1996, 3.

12. Anisimov, 16; and “Novosti,” 6.

13. “Novosti,” 6.

14. V. E. Aleksandrov et al., “Rol’ Aviatsii v Obespechenii Geopoliticheskikh Interesov Rossii,” Voennaya Mysl’ 5, 1996, 17.

15. Tat’yana Burtseva and Marina Motova, “Rossiskiye Ucheniye Vybrosheniy Na Obochiny Reform,” Izvestiye, 26 December 1996, vii.

16. Russian Ministry of Science, Problemiy Razvitiya Nauchno-Tekhnicheskogo Kompleksa Rossiskoi Federatsii (Moscow: Ecolink, 1995), 9–12.

17. Aleksandrov, 20.

18. On the February RFAF Military Council meeting, see “Aviatsiya,” Vestnik Vozdushnogo Flota 3–4, 1996, 6; and Sergey Babichev, “Pochemy Derzhimsa v Vozdukhe,” Krasnaya Zvezda, 24 February 1996, 3.

19. “Sovershenstvuetsya Ypravlenie Oboronnoy Promyshlennost’yu,” Krasnaya Zvezda, 12 May 1996, 1.

20. Vladislav Borodulin, “Gosudarstvo Vser’yoz I Nadolgo Povernulos’ Litsom k ‘Oboronke’,” Deloviye Lyudi 67 (July 1996): 24–27; and Zinoviy Pak, “Russia’s Defense Industry Proceeds with Restructuring,” Aerospace Journal, Sept–Oct 1996, 78.

21. Borodulin, 24–27; and Zinoviy Pak, “‘Oboronka’,” Nachinaet Zhit’ Tsivilizovannoy Zhizn’yu,” Krasnaya Zvezda, 18 May 1996, 3.

22. Nikolai Ivanov, “Nametki Plana Reformiy Vooruzhonikh Sil Uzhe Yest’,” Nezavisimaya Gazeta, 24 July 1996, 2.

23. Vladislav Fadeyev and Valeriy Baberdin, “V Tek-nologicheskoi Gonke Nel’zya Sxodit’ C Distantsii,” Krasnaya Zvezda, 26 October 1996, 3.

24. Aleksander Bekker, “Yakov Urinson-Voennaya Reforma Zatronet Vsyu Economiku Rossii,” Segodnya, 17 October 1996, 3; and Vladislav Kuz’michev, “AIzmeneny Parametry Byudzheta–97,” Nezavisimaya Gazeta, 25 October 1996, 1.

25. Igor Kovalenko, “Na Chyom Bzletim v XXI Vek?” Armeiski Sbornik 8 (August 1996): 46.

26. Pyotr Deynekin, “Major Trends and Prospects for Development of Russia’s Air Power,” Military Parade, July–August 1996, 16-17.

27. “Russkoye Oruzhiye Vyrvalos’ Na Svobodu,” Kommersant 7 (5 March 1996): 52–53; and “Dmitriy Maslennikov, “Oboronka Sostyazatetsya C Rosvooruzheniyem,” Nezavisimaya Gazeta, 14 November 1996, 6.

28. Sergey Tsekhmistrenko, “Diktovat’ Usloviya Na Mirovom Rynke Ne Pozvoleno Nikomu,” Deloviye Lyudi 63, 1996, 28; and “Russkoye Oruzhiye Vyrvalos’,” 52–53.

29. “Novosti,” 1–2, 41.

30. Sergei Trush, “Prodazha Rossiskogo Oruzhiya Pekiny– Rezoniy I Opaseniya,” Nezavisimaya Gazeta Voennoe Obozreniye, 25 April 1996, 6.

31. “India Zakupayet Rossiiskiye Samolyotiy Eskadril’yami,” Kommersant, 16 November 1996, 4; and “40 Russian SU-30s Lend Youth to Aging IAF Fleet,” Jane’s Defence Weekly, 20 November 1996, 14; Vadim Markushin, “Shirokiy Koridor K Tyoplomu Okeanu,” Krasnaya Zvezda, 13 August 1996, 3; and “India Stala Pervym Pokupatelem Istrebitelei SU-30MK,” Segodnya, 2 December 1996, 1.

32. Nikolay Novichkov and Lyubov’ Milobanova, “Latinskaya Amerika Mozhet Stat’ Perspektivnym Rynkom Dlya Rossiiskoy Voennoy Tekniki,” Izvestiya, 12 March 1996, ii; “Russia, S. Korea Come Together on Defence,” Jane’s Defence Weekly, 20 November 1996, 13; and Nikolay Novichkov, “Desperate for Sales, Moscow Courts Seoul,” Aviation Week & Space Technology, 18 November 1996, 31.

33. Aleksandr Kotelkin, “Russia Was, Is, and Will Be Competitor Number One for the U.S. in Arms Sales,” Military Parade, November–December 1996, 11.

34. Igor’ Chernyak, “Sukhoy Ostatok,” Komsomol’skaya Pravda, 5 March 1996, 3.

35. Leonid Zavarskiy, “Aviapromyshlenniki Reshili Coobrazhat’ Vtroyem,” Kommersant, 6 December 1996, 8.

36. Aleksandr Pel’ts, “Sovet Oboroniy: Prioritetiy Na Buduschee,” Krasnaya Zvezda, 22 November 1996, 1.

some stupid fuck is posting me sources dated back to 1996 :rollin

[Kobe24Forever]

No it is not. Both Gulf Wars proved the indespensible lesson that such an aircraft is needed. A hard-won lesson of WW2 comes back.

I imagine that the military is probably working on the next generation of the A-10, a design that orginated in the early 70's.

The updated capabilities of that aircraft, whatever form it will probably take, truly make me shudder when I think of the lethality of such an aircraft and what it will probably be able to do to enemy armored formations.

I see something that looks a lot like the present A-10 with vastly improved engines, an airframe that probably will weigh the same or slightly less, but be made out of carbon composites and be waaaay stronger and better armored, with more advanced manuevering capabilities, and better computer assisted targeting.

Eeek.

another stupid fuck is suggesting improving on aircraft that has been made obsolete since the gulf war, are u still living in the past? :blah

[Kobe24Forever]

ok a query to the same stupid fuck who used wikipedia and called su-37 a prototype, i want to here from you and still waiting to here from the supposed military expert on that hahaha.

[balli]

another stupid fuck is suggesting improving on aircraft that has been made obsolete since the gulf war, are u still living in the past? :blah
That "stupid fuck" has gotten national attention for a thread he started not too long ago. Or was it Dark reign??? Either way, you have a handful of posts, some dumb youtube vid and healthy streak of ignorance. STFU and go the fuck away.

[Kobe24Forever]

So,with the concensus that we're going to remain unparalleled in the air for quite some time, can we turn to other aspects of our military.

The ground game is home to some pretty exciting developments as well:

c5dIaDGUfLI

That's a "Quick Kill" Active Protection System destroying and incoming anti-tank RPG in flight and right after launch; Remote-Control Guided Sniper Round?

Now I would have thought that was pretty much impossible. But I guess it's not.

Pretty awesome!

want me to post videos of more advance anti tank protection that that? i think i have done enough video posting and i hope ur not too dumb to search it for urself :blah, posting ancient technology that have been improved on is something that makes u look very stupid. Still waiting on USA to build it's supposedly patriot system in poland, still waiting :blah

[johnsmith]

Alright, I just spent 10 minutes of my life reading this thread and Kobe24forever, you fucking douche bag, I want it back.


This thread is as much a waste of internet space as you are of oxygen.


Now sit your ass down in your little third world country, continue to be jealous of us, and stop watching our sports.

[Kobe24Forever]

That "stupid fuck" has gotten national attention for a thread he started not too long ago. You have a handful of posts, some dumb youtube vid and healthy streak of ignorance. STFU and go the fuck away.

that stupid fuck also used sources older than a decade ago to make his argument, real sad :lmao, now i know u ugys have really run out of ammo.

[RandomGuy]

some stupid fuck is posting me sources dated back to 1996 :rollin

You seemed to have missed the part where I said it was a bit old and needed further verification. :p:

[doobs]

ok a query to the same stupid fuck who used wikipedia and called su-37 a prototype, i want to here from you and still waiting to here from the supposed military expert on that hahaha.

http://ui19.gamespot.com/1874/dsc00514_2.jpg

[Kobe24Forever]

Alright, I just spent 10 minutes of my life reading this thread and Kobe24forever, you fucking douche bag, I want it back.


This thread is as much a waste of internet space as you are of oxygen.


Now sit your ass down in your little third world country, continue to be jealous of us, and stop watching our sports.

you country is poorer then most third world country, oh the irony.

[RandomGuy]

Alright, I just spent 10 minutes of my life reading this thread and Kobe24forever, you fucking douche bag, I want it back.


This thread is as much a waste of internet space as you are of oxygen.


Now sit your ass down in your little third world country, continue to be jealous of us, and stop watching our sports.

Actually keep reading. We have been posting some pretty interesting stuff on current military developments. I didn't know exactly how they beefed up the predator drone until researching it. There are some fascinating other articles posted too.

[Kobe24Forever]

You seemed to have missed the part where I said it was a bit old and needed further verification. :p:

all ur post are made from sources older than 10 years ago, anything modern you want to add? you sure work hard finding those sources, i give u credit, but you also shows ur overealiance on the internet without making a cohesive judgement of what you are posting :lol

[johnsmith]

you country is poorer then most third world country, oh the irony.

What country are you in?


I know, you're too humiliating to admit.


If I had to go out on a limb, I'd say it's one that is totally dependant on us.

Quit the internet because you suck at it.

[RandomGuy]

Source outside of wikipedia:

Following link is a java link that takes a short time to load, but shows the "Russia-India news"
http://publishing.yudu.com/A5uq5/rbth-29-12-07/resources/6.htm

It does detail a few of the trade issues between the country, such as the indian purchase of 347 new T-90 tanks. (remember the article that I posted that noted that India has more T-90's in service than Russia itself? The one that was "too long" to read?)

It also provides the following quote about the Su-37, transcribed here by yours truly:

"Unfortunately, Russia has so far failed to master production of the purely experimental Su-37, built by Sukhoi at its own expense."

The article, "Russia, India set to develop a fifth-generation fighter" goes on to detail how India turned to Russia after first seeking technology and joint programs on the next generation F-35.

By the by, this article was from September of 2007.

Kobe has yet to provide a link supporting his claim of "thousands" of SU-37 owned by the Russian military.

[johnsmith]

Actually keep reading. We have been posting some pretty interesting stuff on current military developments. I didn't know exactly how they beefed up the predator drone until researching it. There are some fascinating other articles posted too.

Oh, don't get me wrong, the stuff you guys have been posting is fine.

[Kobe24Forever]

Actually keep reading. We have been posting some pretty interesting stuff on current military developments. I didn't know exactly how they beefed up the predator drone until researching it. There are some fascinating other articles posted too.

beef up lol, other countries have been making innovations and advancement, u need to beef up urself and brace urself for major poverty, still waiting for the patriot system in poland, still still.

[RandomGuy]

all ur post are made from sources older than 10 years ago, anything modern you want to add? you sure work hard finding those sources, i give u credit, but you also shows ur overealiance on the internet without making a cohesive judgement of what you are posting :lol

http://www.trephination.net/gallery/macros/genepool.jpg

[RandomGuy]

all ur post are made from sources older than 10 years ago, anything modern you want to add? you sure work hard finding those sources, i give u credit, but you also shows ur overealiance on the internet without making a cohesive judgement of what you are posting :lol

http://www.trephination.net/gallery/macros/english_mofo.gif

[RandomGuy]

RUSSIAN MILITARY PERSONNEL ABUSE: RUSSIAN MILITARY IMPOSES PRISON TERM, AWARDS FINANCIAL COMPENSATION OVER BRUTAL HAZING RESULTING IN AMPUTATION (http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/2006-118-14.cfm)

Russian conscripts sold for sex, group claims (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/feb/13/russia.lukeharding)
· New blow to military follows bullying scandal
· Soldier tells of beatings humiliation and torture

[romad_20]

another stupid fuck is suggesting improving on aircraft that has been made obsolete since the gulf war, are u still living in the past? :blah


Since you're so fucking smart, why don't you explain to us all how the A-10 is obsolete?

Do you understand what its mission is or how its employed? Do they operate solo or multiple? Do they fly with other types of planes? Tell us please because I can't wait to hear it.

[RandomGuy]

I didn't really want to do this, but what the fuck. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=russian+conscript+abuse&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=)

I am sure it will be simply all be dismissed as propaganda, but I am just as sure our Russian friend never reported for his REQUIRED stint in the Russian army.

Honestly, as much of an ass as he is, I wouldn't wish that fate on anybody, not even him. I hope he has the brains to avoid it.

[RandomGuy]

Twenty die on Russian submarine (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7718156.stm) 2008 (not the kursk this was a different submarine)

Or hell, here is an actual russian source about the Kursk nuclear submarine accident. If it is Russian, it can't be propaganda, right? (http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws002/kursk001.htm)

Here is a non-russian source detailing the Kursk from 2000. May God rest their souls. (http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/reports/kursk.htm)

[DarkReign]

Since you're so fucking smart, why don't you explain to us all how the A-10 is obsolete?

Do you understand what its mission is or how its employed? Do they operate solo or multiple? Do they fly with other types of planes? Tell us please because I can't wait to hear it.

I believe he has already explained that he is "not a military expert".

So basically, you have yourself, RG and Yoni walking circles around his filtered world and him denying you even exist.

Either way, he wins, we lose. Or so it goes.

[Kobe24Forever]

all these reports you made, along with those fake proaganda goes hand in hand with ur stupidity, i will ask you again, you owe a debt of trillions, your military programme will be and have to be cut down drastically, ur space programme has been shut down, ur air supremacy is obsolete, ur threats have been turned out into nothing more than mere threats, u havent touch iran or north korea because you know the implications of going to war with nations well prepared for aerial strikes, keep convincing urself and patting urself on the back :) the reality is it's not that way, thats what i find funny as you guys keep making up shit from the past :D

[Bigzax]

all these reports you made, along with those fake proaganda goes hand in hand with ur stupidity, i will ask you again, you owe a debt of trillions, your military programme will be and have to be cut down drastically, ur space programme has been shut down, ur air supremacy is obsolete, ur threats have been turned out into nothing more than mere threats, u havent touch iran or north korea because you know the implications of going to war with nations well prepared for aerial strikes, keep convincing urself and patting urself on the back :) the reality is it's not that way, thats what i find funny as you guys keep making up shit from the past :D


YEAH...AND?...SO?
:wakeup

[Kobe24Forever]

still waiting for the patriot shit missiles to be deployed in poland, still waiting for an invasion of iran and NK, Iran developing nuclear weapons, and all u did was invaded a poor defenseless iraq and found no WMD, thats a show of true cowardice :)

[romad_20]

all these reports you made, along with those fake proaganda goes hand in hand with ur stupidity, i will ask you again, you owe a debt of trillions, your military programme will be and have to be cut down drastically, ur space programme has been shut down, ur air supremacy is obsolete, ur threats have been turned out into nothing more than mere threats, u havent touch iran or north korea because you know the implications of going to war with nations well prepared for aerial strikes, keep convincing urself and patting urself on the back :) the reality is it's not that way, thats what i find funny as you guys keep making up shit from the past :D

Address the question of how the A-10 is obsolete and explain to me what it mission is and how its used.

As far as air supremacy, you are so far off its not even funny.

[Kobe24Forever]

i saw several video of ur marineboys crying wanting to go home to mommy, that examplifies the poorly conditioned mentally weak usa marines really well, he said he got his friend killed by a pitchfork wielding terrorist.

[RandomGuy]

The decline of the Russian Navy has been singularly spectacular.

Here was a couple of bits from a naval expert after military court found Admiral Gennady Suchkov guilty of incompetence following the sinking in 2003 of an old attack sub on the way to the scrapyard taking 9 out of 10 crewmembers with it:

Prosecution Amidst On-going Crisis In Russia's Navy (http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=26574)


Suchkov, in an atmosphere of surreal unwillingness to face the truth facing Russia's deteriorating navy, had pleaded innocent to the charges during the hearings, which saw the culmination of official attempts to pin the blame on a senior figure within the naval senior command structure for the sinking of a K-159 submarine in August 2003. He was found guilty and given a four-year suspended sentence, leaving relatives of the ill-fated submarine crew calling for a harsher penalty (ITAR-TASS, Moscow, May 18).


Indeed, testimony to that sense of decline came from the Northern Fleet in March 2004, when the Peter the Great, the Northern Fleet flagship, was ordered back to port because of fears concerning its safety. The Peter the Great displaces 28,000 tons, stretches the length of three football fields, and carries a crew of 610. It reportedly can carry 20 nuclear-tipped cruise missiles.

[Kobe24Forever]

Address the question of how the A-10 is obsolete and explain to me what it mission is and how its used.

As far as air supremacy, you are so far off its not even funny.

the su-30 makes it obsolete, what a dumbass, if u are talking fighter jets, the usa have long been overtaken lol.

[Kobe24Forever]

and i am talking about an old model too :)

[RandomGuy]

all these reports you made, along with those fake proaganda goes hand in hand with ur stupidity, i will ask you again, you owe a debt of trillions, your military programme will be and have to be cut down drastically, ur space programme has been shut down, ur air supremacy is obsolete, ur threats have been turned out into nothing more than mere threats, u havent touch iran or north korea because you know the implications of going to war with nations well prepared for aerial strikes, keep convincing urself and patting urself on the back :) the reality is it's not that way, thats what i find funny as you guys keep making up shit from the past :D

Please provide a link showing production figures for the Su-37.

[Kobe24Forever]

the bottomline, and all you need to know is this, if the usa goes to war with iran, they will be trashed very badly, same with NK that country is like a fortress, but countries like russia and china can basically invade them now, if they really want to.

[Kobe24Forever]

Please provide a link showing production figures for the Su-37.

pls shut up and provide up to date sources, and credible unbiased info, like the video i first posted.

[Kobe24Forever]

su-35 equal or better in capabilities than an f-22 and mass produced :) that is all u need to know, su-37 > f-22, latest sukhoi pak ta will far overweight f-22 in anything.

[RandomGuy]

the su-30 makes it obsolete, what a dumbass, if u are talking fighter jets, the usa have long been overtaken lol.

lol

This is a bit like saying the pencil made horses obsolete. Or in this case, that say, tanks made trucks obsolete. The different aircraft have different missions. The A-10 is not an air superiority fighter.

For you to make the claim that the A-10 is obsolete you would have to show that the tanks and armored vehicles it targets are too tough for it to kill. Since it was instrumental in destroying hundreds of T-72s in the Gulf wars this would be a hard claim to make, kid.

Any air superiority fighter would win against the A-10 simply because it is not designed for that mission.

[RandomGuy]

su-35 equal or better in capabilities than an f-22 and mass produced

Please provide a link. I call "bullshit".

[Kobe24Forever]

lol

This is a bit like saying the pencil made horses obsolete. Or in this case, that say, tanks made trucks obsolete. The different aircraft have different missions. The A-10 is not an air superiority fighter.

For you to make the claim that the A-10 is obsolete you would have to show that the tanks and armored vehicles it targets are too tough for it to kill. Since it was instrumental in destroying hundreds of T-72s in the Gulf wars this would be a hard claim to make, kid.

Any air superiority fighter would win against the A-10 simply because it is not designed for that mission.

any fighter is an air superiority fighter, u are that stupid, then why bring up a crappy a-10 into discussion? because that is the only fighter u can afford to produce now, while su-35 is being mass produced :blah

[RandomGuy]

su-35 is mass produced

http://www.warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=255&linkid=1606

Warfare.ru says there are only 12 of them.

Is that what passes for "mass produced" in Russia these days? :lmao

[romad_20]

the su-30 makes it obsolete, what a dumbass, if u are talking fighter jets, the usa have long been overtaken lol.

You're a god damn idiot. The Su-30 makes the A-10 obsolete?????:lol So the A-10 engages other planes? Is that what you're saying? Do you think the A-10 would be operating in an area with enemy aircraft?

And you still haven't answered what its mission is and how its used. You need to quit posting because you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

[Kobe24Forever]

Please provide a link. I call "bullshit".

pls watch the video and look at the comparison charts in capabilities, u dumbshit,

[RandomGuy]

In fairness:

Introduction :

Su-35BM will be the last developed Flanker. An final upgrade, final variant. Actually, the designation is quite confusing, since Su-35 already exists in Russian Air Force. Su-35 was the export designation for upgraded Su-27, called Su-27M, internal Sukhoi designation T-10M. Su-27M gave baseline Flanker new avionics, as well as precision air-to-ground capability. Only five of these are in service with VVS (Russian Air Force), with 237th regiment based at Kubinka Air Base. VVS chose another path instead; to incorporate technologies tested in Su-35/T-10M, together with those of Su-30MK, into an standard upgrade project for the baseline Flanker, the Su-27SM. The Su-35 designation was also used for Su-37, dubbed as “Terminator”. Aircraft was a testbed for 2D thrust-vectoring engines, mounted on Su-35/T-10M.

The Su-27 flanker, a design that has been around since 1984, is a couple generations behind the F-22, btw.

So either you are a dumbass for not knowing the difference, or a dumbass for not looking up the production figures before spouting off.

Which version of dumbass are you? ;)

[Kobe24Forever]

In fairness:

Introduction :

Su-35BM will be the last developed Flanker. An final upgrade, final variant. Actually, the designation is quite confusing, since Su-35 already exists in Russian Air Force. Su-35 was the export designation for upgraded Su-27, called Su-27M, internal Sukhoi designation T-10M. Su-27M gave baseline Flanker new avionics, as well as precision air-to-ground capability. Only five of these are in service with VVS (Russian Air Force), with 237th regiment based at Kubinka Air Base. VVS chose another path instead; to incorporate technologies tested in Su-35/T-10M, together with those of Su-30MK, into an standard upgrade project for the baseline Flanker, the Su-27SM. The Su-35 designation was also used for Su-37, dubbed as “Terminator”. Aircraft was a testbed for 2D thrust-vectoring engines, mounted on Su-35/T-10M.

The Su-27 flanker, a design that has been around since 1984, is a couple generations behind the F-22, btw.

So either you are a dumbass for not knowing the difference, or a dumbass for not looking up the production figures before spouting off.

Which version of dumbass are you? ;)


wiki whore :), su-35 is the most mass produced and imported aircraft around the world, something wiki dont ever teach you little whore :)

[Kobe24Forever]

this debate will never end though, like i said just wait till 2009, we can talk more till then :)

[doobs]

The biggest threat Russia poses to the United States has nothing to do with American military decline. It has to do with Russian decline. Its military is falling apart. The country itself is falling apart. This is a huge country bordering Europe and China and the Middle East, and it has nuclear weapons. Scary.

Naturally, we will continue to clean up the mess left by the former Soviet Union.

[RandomGuy]

This has been fun, but it is beer and sci-fi time.

I am still waiting on Kobe to tell me about the Russian unmanned fighter program.

When US will be fielding this delta wing unmanned fighter:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Boeing_X-45A_UCAV.jpg/300px-Boeing_X-45A_UCAV.jpg

...Russia will be fielding its own version of an unmanned fighter aircraft.

Top secret spies have smuggled a picture out of Russia of the current prototype, and for the first time I will post a picture of the Russian prototype seen here on a training flight:

http://www.igniteseattle.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/445392913_53c13e695d.jpg

[RandomGuy]

wiki whore :), su-35 is the most mass produced and imported aircraft around the world, something wiki dont ever teach you little whore :)

http://www.warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=255&linkid=1606

Warfare.ru says there are only 12 of them.

Is that what passes for "mass produced" in Russia these days? :lmao

[Kobe24Forever]

This has been fun, but it is beer and sci-fi time.

I am still waiting on Kobe to tell me about the Russian unmanned fighter program.

When US will be fielding this delta wing unmanned fighter:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Boeing_X-45A_UCAV.jpg/300px-Boeing_X-45A_UCAV.jpg

...Russia will be fielding its own version of an unmanned fighter aircraft.

Top secret spies have smuggled a picture out of Russia of the current prototype, and for the first time I will post a picture of the Russian prototype seen here on a training flight:

http://www.igniteseattle.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/445392913_53c13e695d.jpg

still waiting for the usa military to actually be able to fund and mass produce this experimental tech, that might turn out to be useless like the one you wasted on the lol star wars defense system, geek :D

[Kobe24Forever]

still waiting for the usa military to actually be able to fund and mass produce this experimental tech, that might turn out to be useless like the one you wasted on the lol star wars defense system, geek :D

still waiting for the usa military to actually be able to fund and mass produce this experimental tech, that might turn out to be useless like the one you wasted on the lol star wars defense system, geek :D

[RandomGuy]

It's been fun kid, but I seriously do hope you are smart enough to avoid the Russian army, even though you haven't demonstrated much in the way of smarts here.

I wish you well.

[chode_regulator]

i also did a little research found out it's one of those failed projects that was deployed in countries like afganistan, very enlightening.

wow you really are retarded

[Kobe24Forever]

It's been fun kid, but I seriously do hope you are smart enough to avoid the Russian army, even though you haven't demonstrated much in the way of smarts here.

I wish you well.

make sure you buy lot's of gold for ur worthless us dollar while you still can:lol

[RandomGuy]

still waiting for the usa military to actually be able to fund and mass produce this experimental tech, that might turn out to be useless like the one you wasted on the lol star wars defense system, geek :D

Unmanned fighters are actually far cheaper on a per plane basis and in just about any other cost measure. That is one of the reasons that it is so revolutionary.

This technology will be one of the most important facets of keeping the military cheap.

Let me know all about the Russian program for UAV's when you get the chance. I would love to see it. :p:

[Kobe24Forever]

Unmanned fighters are actually far cheaper on a per plane basis and in just about any other cost measure. That is one of the reasons that it is so revolutionary.

This technology will be one of the most important facets of keeping the military cheap.

Let me know all about the Russian program for UAV's when you get the chance. I would love to see it. :p:

su-35, equal in capabilities to the f-22 though some geeks will always try to deny it, much cheaper and mass produced, enough said, lets not go to pak fa or su-47.

[Kobe24Forever]

i will let you guys argue over this, it's been good so far, and pls tell me about ur countries deficit next year, and how all the illusion of a healthy consumerism comes crumbling down, i got things to do, later chumps :).

[ChumpDumper]

su-35, equal in capabilities to the f-22 though some geeks will always try to deny it, much cheaper and mass produced, enough said, lets not go to pak fa or su-47.
Dmitry Vasiliev of 'Military Export' Magazine says its the best available on the international market.

In terms of technology the new jet is second only to the American fifth generation F22 Raptor. But the American jet was primarily for domestic use and not for export, leaving the SU 35 as the most cutting edge fighter jet available on the market.


http://www.russiatoday.com/business/news/27178

Which military equipment magazine do you write for?

[Yonivore]

still waiting for the usa military to actually be able to fund and mass produce this experimental tech, that might turn out to be useless like the one you wasted on the lol star wars defense system, geek :D
Uhm... Missile Defense, it Kinda Works!

I'm just sayin (http://www.mda.mil/mdalink/pdf/08news0090.pdf).

http://closingvelocity.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/12/05/gbi_launch_ftg05_120508.jpg


For this exercise, a threat-representative target missile was launched from Kodiak, Alaska at 3:04pm (EST). This long-range ballistic target was tracked by several land- and sea-based radars, which sent targeting information to the interceptor missile. At 3:23pm (EST)the Ground-Based Interceptor was launched from the Ronald W. Reagan Missile Defense Site, located at Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif. The interceptor’s exoatmospheric kill vehicle was carried into the target’s predicted trajectory in space, maneuvered to the target, performed discrimination, and intercepted the threat warhead.

[AFBlue]

su-35, equal in capabilities to the f-22 though some geeks will always try to deny it, much cheaper and mass produced, enough said, lets not go to pak fa or su-47.

Yeah, let's not go there....since those aircraft aren't even out of the development stage!

Come back and talk about those aircraft when they're actually at full rate production and being stood up at Russian Air Bases.

The F/A-22, for example, is a fielded operational aircraft.

[ChumpDumper]

I think he's in a country that is buying some of these planes, so he wants to feel good about them.

[The Reckoning]

Naturally, we will continue to clean up the mess left by the former Soviet Union.

i remember hearing from class that it would be cheap (in taxpayer standards) to clean up and/or protect the nukes that the soviet union left hanging around.

for some reason the government hasnt been willing to do so

[RandomGuy]

i remember hearing from class that it would be cheap (in taxpayer standards) to clean up and/or protect the nukes that the soviet union left hanging around.

for some reason the government hasnt been willing to do so

Actually they have been paying the Russians for this very thing. The security situation there still sucks, but isn't as bad as it could be.