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Clandestino
02-24-2005, 01:16 PM
sounds like a good plan to me.. the more people know about "secret missions" the less productive they are.

Thu Feb 24, 7:20 AM ET Top Stories - washingtonpost.com


By Ann Scott Tyson and Dana Priest, Washington Post Staff Writers

The Pentagon (news - web sites) is promoting a global counterterrorism plan that would allow Special Operations forces to enter a foreign country to conduct military operations without explicit concurrence from the U.S. ambassador there, administration officials familiar with the plan said.

The plan would weaken the long-standing "chief of mission" authority under which the U.S. ambassador, as the president's top representative in a foreign country, decides whether to grant entry to U.S. government personnel based on political and diplomatic considerations.


The Special Operations missions envisioned in the plan would largely be secret, known to only a handful of officials from the foreign country, if any.


The change is included in a highly classified "execute order" -- part of a broad strategy developed since Sept. 11, 2001, to give the U.S. Special Operations Command new flexibility to track down and destroy terrorist networks worldwide, the officials said.


"This is a military order on a global scale, something that hasn't existed since World War II," said a counterterrorism official with lengthy experience in special operations. He and other officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because the proposal is classified.


The Pentagon sees the greater leeway as vital to enabling commando forces to launch operations quickly and stealthily against terrorist groups without often time-consuming interagency debate, said administration officials familiar with the plan. In the Pentagon view, the campaign against terrorism is a war and requires similar freedom to prosecute as in Iraq (news - web sites), where the military chain of command coordinates closely with the U.S. Embassy but is not subject to traditional chief-of-mission authority.


The State Department and the CIA (news - web sites) have fought the proposal, saying it would be dangerous to dilute the authority of the U.S. ambassador and CIA station chief to oversee U.S. military and intelligence activities in other countries.


Over the past two years, the State Department has repeatedly blocked Pentagon efforts to send Special Operations forces into countries surreptitiously and without ambassadors' formal approval, current and former administration officials said.


The State Department assigned counterterrorism coordinator J. Cofer Black, who also led the CIA's counterterrorism operations after Sept. 11, as its point person to try to thwart the Pentagon's initiative.


"I gave Cofer specific instructions to dismount, kill the horses and fight on foot -- this is not going to happen," said Richard L. Armitage, describing how as deputy secretary of state -- a job he held until earlier this month -- he and others stopped six or seven Pentagon attempts to weaken chief-of-mission authority.


In one instance, U.S. commanders tried to dispatch Special Forces soldiers into Pakistan without gaining ambassadorial approval but were rebuffed by the State Department, said two sources familiar with the event. The soldiers eventually entered Pakistan with proper clearance but were ordered out again by the ambassador for what was described as reckless behavior. "We had SF [Special Forces] guys in civilian clothes running around a hotel with grenades in their pockets," said one source involved in the incident, who opposes the Pentagon plan.


Other officials cited another case to illustrate their concern. In the past year, they said, a group of Delta Force soldiers left a bar at night in a Latin American country and shot an alleged assailant but did not inform the U.S. Embassy for several days.


In Pentagon policy circles, questions about chief-of-mission authority are viewed as part of a broad reassessment of how to organize the U.S. government optimally to fight terrorism. In this view, alternative models of U.S. military, diplomatic and intelligence authority -- possibly tailored to specific countries and situations -- should be considered.


Pentagon officials familiar with the issue declined to speak on the record out of concern that issues of bureaucratic warfare would overshadow a serious policy question.


Debate over the issue reignited last month, as Armitage and then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell departed and Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites) prepared to replace him, said an administration official familiar with the matter. When the Pentagon refused to change language in the execute order, that put the issue before Rice.


In the past week, however, she has made it clear that she intends to protect the existing chief-of-mission authority. "Rice is resolute in holding to chief-of-mission authority over operations the way it exists now, for a very rational reason -- you need someone who can coordinate," said a senior State Department official.


Some officials have viewed the debate as an early test of how Rice will defend State Department views on a range of matters in bureaucratic infighting with the Pentagon.





The State Department's concerns are twofold, officials said: Conducting military operations would be perilous without the broad purview and oversight of the U.S. ambassador, and it would set a precedent that other U.S. agencies could follow.

"The chief-of-mission authority is a pillar of presidential authority overseas," said the administration official familiar with the issue. "When you start eroding that, it can have repercussions that are . . . risky. Particularly, military action is one of the most important decisions a president makes . . . and that is the sort of action that should be taken with deliberation."

U.S. ambassadors have full responsibility for supervising all U.S. government employees in that country, and when granting country clearances they are supposed to consider various factors, including ramifications for overall bilateral relations. For example, one reason the U.S. military never conducted aggressive operations against al Qaeda in Pakistan was a fear that such actions would incite the local population to overthrow the fragile, nuclear-capable government of President Pervez Musharraf.

The rift between the Pentagon and State Department over chief-of-mission authority parallels broader concerns about the push to empower the Special Operations Command in the war on terrorism. The CIA, for example, has concerns that new intelligence-gathering initiatives by the military could weaken CIA station chiefs and complicate U.S. espionage abroad.

Without close coordination with the CIA, former senior intelligence officials said, the military could target someone whom the CIA is secretly surveilling and disrupt a flow of valuable intelligence.

MannyIsGod
02-24-2005, 03:22 PM
Ahh, yes, the wonderful exective order. Who needs a congress anyway?

Bad idea, but I doubt it will get much pub, therefore it'll go through.

Nbadan
02-25-2005, 01:49 AM
So now in addition to claiming the right to abduct, kid-nap, unlawfully prosecute and torture citizens of other countries, they want the right to conduct military operations that would reduce ambassadors to mere apologists for the policies of the WH. Sounds about right for this adminstration.

Clandestino
02-25-2005, 09:53 AM
yeah, you would be against making it easier way to catch terrorists..

MannyIsGod
02-25-2005, 01:27 PM
Why can't he make the law through congress the way it's meant to be done? Why circumvent the government ?

You know, it would be easiest to catch the terrorists in a military state. Is that what you want?

It's not all about catching your godamn terrorists. It's about checks and balances, and it's about finding other ways of dealing with them other than invading every country and always falling back on military action.

Clandestino
02-25-2005, 03:37 PM
laws take a lot of time.. why waste more time when they have jobs to be doing and not filling out paperwork so they can catch terrorists

MannyIsGod
02-25-2005, 05:25 PM
Your right, declare martial law right now! What was I thinking? Me and my stupid ACLU buddies!

Clandestino
02-25-2005, 11:57 PM
Your right, declare martial law right now! What was I thinking? Me and my stupid ACLU buddies!

this wasn't in our own country... these special ops are going to go in the country and do their work...this executive order will just streamline the process.. any second that is wasted on red tape just makes their job harder... i'm glad to know you like to make it tougher to catch terrorists manny..

MannyIsGod
02-26-2005, 12:06 AM
I like to make it where we follow the legislative system. You obviously have no qualms about the power being placed at the hands of ONE man.

The governmental system is there for a reason, not to be overriden by stupid executive orders. Making it easier to catch terrorist as you say also has other repurcusions. You never want to take those ramifications into account because you suffer from sever tunnel vision.

Clandestino
02-26-2005, 12:15 AM
I like to make it where we follow the legislative system. You obviously have no qualms about the power being placed at the hands of ONE man.

The governmental system is there for a reason, not to be overriden by stupid executive orders. Making it easier to catch terrorist as you say also has other repurcusions. You never want to take those ramifications into account because you suffer from sever tunnel vision.

i just know how hard it is to get shit approved by the government... takes way to fucking long... why else do you think when clinton tried to have osama killed he was long gone??? red fucking tape