Public Transit Ideas for SA...

[8ft.tall.tejano]

...i heard that VIA is going to have another rate hike in January, instead of just having a vote on a sales tax increase and i just wanted to see if anyone else had any ideas for changes we could make to the public transit system in SA...

i just think that its sooooo wrong to increase the rate when so many of the city's citizens depend on via to get to work/school especially when the price of oil is dropping....

...aside from doing more to stop the sprawl in this town, i was thinking.........monorail? what do you think? any other ideas?

[Nbadan]

- a monorail could work in combination with VIA, but they shouldn't compete against each other....the buses could work the residential areas from the monorail stations that carry passengers quickly and efficiently to major hubs throughout the city...that doesn't mean that cross-city buses should stop, or at least not until people got used to the convenience of riding the monorail....what it does mean is that monorail stations would need to be convenient and close to home and maybe some shopping....unfortunately, that would require a immediate subsidy from the government till it turned profitable, but with improvements to hubs, efficiency in advertising and word of mouth leading to higher ridership rates, the project could be profitable within 5-10 years, maybe for residential tax cuts for community easements for monorail construction and future improvements, studies, etc....

[8ft.tall.tejano]

- a monorail could work in combination with VIA, but they shouldn't compete against each other....the buses could work the residential areas from the monorail stations that carry passengers quickly and efficiently to major hubs throughout the city...that doesn't mean that cross-city buses should stop, or at least not until people got used to the convenience of riding the monorail....what it does mean is that monorail stations would need to be convenient and close to home and maybe some shopping....unfortunately, that would require a immediate subsidy from the government till it turned profitable, but with improvements to hubs, efficiency in advertising and word of mouth leading to higher ridership rates, the project could be profitable within 5-10 years, maybe for residential tax cuts for community easements for monorail construction and future improvements, studies, etc....

now thats a smart response...the reason i said monorail to begin w/is that we could never have a sub in a city whose water supply is beneath us...but something like a monorail or maybe a maglev connect b/t austin and sa and all the smaller suburbs that meet near where major bus terminals are...i doubt it would ever be profitable, even is ridership was at near-India train levels...but i do think something needs to happen fast or else we would be spread out like houston and those that don't have cars would be screwed.

[Smackie Chan]

Not to piss off Buddy Holly but San Antonio is being run by Morons so it doesn't really matter what idea Einstein himself comes up with,there will be plenty of douche bags in this town to find a way to fuck things up.

[Nbadan]

I think Hardberger has done a decent job.....public health and safety should be priority #1 for a city leader....then transportation....

[exstatic]

Monorails are EXPENSIVE, and frankly, an eyesore, blocking views wherever they are. Also, you can rule out a MAGLEV train any time in the next 50 years. They need their own VERY EXPENSIVE type of tracks, and since Texans seem to be allergic to taxes, you can scratch that, too.

The best bet is this short light rail proposed from Downtown/Southtown to The Rim. The track exists already, and the current railroad is about to abandon it. For the cost of some passenger rolling stock and the building of some stations, you've got yourself a light rail. It would be relatively low cost, and it has a built in clientele from the start that will use it all day: UTSA students going from campus to campus.

[MannyIsGod]

WTF? Monorail? How about we start off with a light rail. We could easly build a subway here but it would be pretty retarded to do so and it has nothing to do with the water and everything to do with San Antonio having plenty of room above ground.

[Nbadan]

How about we start off with a light rail

....that's what I've seen in other cities....they look like buses on rail, so they would be on the less-expensive side of things, plus if we could find the best use combination to reduce emissions and that is a payment on a debt we have yet begun to pay....

[Desert Plains]

How about we let someone from Chicago run this town for the next 8 years?

http://marcel-marchon.com/img--117945132--Chicago-El-train--m.jpg

[Buddy Holly]

VIA has put BRT on hold and is re-explorering light rail so let's just wait and see what they come up with.

[Buddy Holly]

Fyi, if you're not too familiar with Bus Rapid Transit, here's VIA's BRT page.

http://www.viabrt.net

In my opinion, look for BRT to get the axe in favior of LRT (light rail) or VIA may roll out with both BRT and LRT (which would be the best thing).

[fyatuk]

Meh. VIA sucks, period. Need to get someone else to plan their routes to be more useful and get more large transfer points where a bunch of lines meet. VIA already gets the lion's share of .5% sales taxes or so, so I'm opposed to any rate hikes from them.

Then again, I quit riding VIA like 15 years ago because they absolutely blew, except when it came to large event planning (park and ride service to games, fiesta specials, etc). My friend assures me they still suck, however.

[xrayzebra]

How about we let someone from Chicago run this town for the next 8 years?

http://marcel-marchon.com/img--117945132--Chicago-El-train--m.jpg

You gonna have someone from Chicago running things for the next four
years anyhow. San Antonio and your life. His name is O B A M A, the
most worshipful master and messiah. FDR II.

[exstatic]

Fyi, if you're not too familiar with Bus Rapid Transit, here's VIA's BRT page.

http://www.viabrt.net

In my opinion, look for BRT to get the axe in favior of LRT (light rail) or VIA may roll out with both BRT and LRT (which would be the best thing).

The problem with rolling out both is that the selected routes are too close. The BRT is supposed to run from downtown, up Fredericksburg road to the Med center, The light rail is supposed to run from Southtown up to The Rim, essentially paralleling the BRT route. Now, if they put the BRT somewhere else, like maybe the San Pedro/281 corridor or somewhere in the Austin highway/I35 corridor, then it might work, since they'd be serving two different major traffic arteries.

[tonylongoriafan]

if everyone just drives bigger trucks and suvs, the streets wouldn't be crowded with all of these small crappy rice rockets!

[8ft.tall.tejano]

http://marcel-marchon.com/img--117945132--Chicago-El-train--m.jpg[/QUOTE]

if the train was above ground like that it would be perfect, while also utilizing some of the existing rail spikes that we have across town...so it would save the expense of building a monorail...


The problem with rolling out both is that the selected routes are too close. The BRT is supposed to run from downtown, up Fredericksburg road to the Med center, The light rail is supposed to run from Southtown up to The Rim, essentially paralleling the BRT route. Now, if they put the BRT somewhere else, like maybe the San Pedro/281 corridor or somewhere in the Austin highway/I35 corridor, then it might work, since they'd be serving two different major traffic arteries.

i think the BRT is a cop out...poorly planned too...we can't increase ridership if we just focus on areas where we already know people will ride...we need to think bigger than just going out to the rim...incorporating the suburbs as well...put a train to boerne, new braunfels/san marcos, spring branch, floresville, poteet, castroville, seguin, etc...that way it would encourage those that want to live out in suburbia to do so w/o sprawling out SA more...it would take congestion away from those who comute, and would still have stops on major arteries in the city which would then connect to bus stops....all brt would do is put more frequent congestion on heavily traveled roads that have a heavy bus ridership...we need something thats not road based to leave the road to cars........


Meh. VIA sucks, period. Need to get someone else to plan their routes to be more useful and get more large transfer points where a bunch of lines meet. VIA already gets the lion's share of .5% sales taxes or so, so I'm opposed to any rate hikes from them.

Then again, I quit riding VIA like 15 years ago because they absolutely blew, except when it came to large event planning (park and ride service to games, fiesta specials, etc). My friend assures me they still suck, however.

via is really effecient as long as you don't work late nights and live inside of 410/or medical center...if you don't then it's been my expierence that you have to wait anywhere between 45 min to an hour at off peak times for a bus...all the large transfer points are where there are more riders...why would they build one in stone oak?

[CubanMustGo.]

You gonna have someone from Chicago running things for the next four
years anyhow. San Antonio and your life. His name is O B A M A, the
most worshipful master and messiah. FDR II.


Move on...............

[MannyIsGod]

VIA is extremely effective. It doesn't blow at all. Even on days when i drive to school as opposed to taking the bus, I end up not saving time because I have to find parking and because of traffic. I'd much rather be on the bus reading a book in that time than sitting in traffic or circling a parking lot.

[ChumpDumper]

They pretty much finished construction of the downtown light rail platform here in Austin. I think I read it won't run until March.

[Anti.Hero]

So how about Rhode Island's awesome state transportation LOL

[ChumpDumper]

Just looking at the maps, the light rail line about to open and the proposed Austin-San Antonio regional commuter line would really seem to address most of the logical commutes from the north of Austin.

The south is completely screwed. As it should be.

[Buddy Holly]

It's funny, I thought the title of the thread was:

Public Transit Ideas for SA...

Hmm.... someone can't ruheed.

[Buddy Holly]

Back to the actual topic.

Yeah, the light rail that the county is proposing/pushing to build would connect downtown with The Rim. I believe also FSH but I'm not completely sure.

However, this is completely separate from what VIA is doing.

Bottomline, when the Westside Multimodal station is built, it'll process VIA buses, VIA BRT, Lightrail, commuter and Greyhound.

It's going to be nice! :toast

[ChumpDumper]

It's funny, I thought the title of the thread was:

Public Transit Ideas for SA...

Hmm.... someone can't ruheed.Yeah, you.

The discussion was dovetailing nicely into the Austin-SA regional plan (which, by the way, includes San Antonio), but you blew it with your small-minded, parochial thinking. :tu

[Buddy Holly]

WTF? Monorail? How about we start off with a light rail. We could easly build a subway here but it would be pretty retarded to do so and it has nothing to do with the water and everything to do with San Antonio having plenty of room above ground.

I don't think there's a need for a subway line but I think you could tunnel a line in segments in various places around the city.

For one example, build a subway line underneath the airport.

Maybe an express line that tunneled underneath downtown?

I remember in 2003 some "physic" predicted two things.

One: San Antonio and Fort Worth would become the fastest growing cities in Texas.

Two. San Antonio would have a subway.

Well, the first one came true.

:downspin:

[Buddy Holly]

Yeah, you.

The discussion was dovetailing nicely into the Austin-SA regional plan (which, by the way, includes San Antonio), but you blew it with your small-minded, parochial thinking. :tu


Um, what? Not one person in this thread besides you even mentioned that "never gonna happen" commuter line. So how exactly was it dovetailing nicely? :lol

And yes, how small-minded of me to think a thread asking about transit ideas for San Antonio should stay focused on San Antonio.

How dare I. :rolleyes

[ChumpDumper]

Which do you think will happen first?

1) A municipal San Antonio subway cut through limestone underneath the airport.

2) An Austin/SA commuter rail line on existing tracks with four stops in San Antonio including the airport.

I await your answer.

[ChumpDumper]

I started with the status of light rail in Austin to show how behind the times San Antonio is. Austin is too, but not as much in that respect.

I know that's going to make you angry, but it is what it is.

[Buddy Holly]

LOL, yeah. It's not like your "so-way-ahead of everyone else" city didn't vote NO on LRT either, huh? Also considering the "light rail" you seem to be promoting is nothing more than a gloried heavy rail commuter line that runs what, twice a day, you seriously have NO room to talk about anyone being behind the "times."

Not when SA is now working on adding BRT and LRT. Let's try and see your little hyped up cowlick do that.

As for your multiple choice question.

I'd go with the answer that doesn't cost 5 billion dollars just to buy ROW. As for the cutting through limestone, well, I don't think there's much limestone under the airport but in terms of tunneling, it worked fairly well for that big ass flood tunnel we have under downtown.

But I will say that BRT and LRT will be running in SA MANY MANY decades before that 70 mile commuter line gets going. But hey, if you honestly want to live in a delusional world where that commuter line is a possibly and where investing your life in NBDL basketball is considered anything other than lame, well, you go right ahead.

[ChumpDumper]

LOL, yeah. It's not like your "so-way-ahead of everyone else" city didn't vote NO on LRT either, huh? Also considering the "light rail" you seem to be promoting is nothing more than a gloried heavy rail commuter line that runs what, twice a day, you seriously have NO room to talk about anyone being behind the "times."I said they were behind as well -- just farther along than San Antonio. I think this first line is a mixed bag, but that's politics for you.


Not when SA is now working on adding BRT and LRT. Let's try and see your little hyped up cowlick do that.I like the highway system in SA better overall, but the north and east areas of Austin are really developing nicely, and the rail solutions are only going to help. The funny thing about you is you have to make it a fight to the death between cities, when that simply isn't the case at all. Indeed, the futures of the two cities are quite closely linked.


As for your multiple choice question.

I'd go with the answer that doesn't cost 5 billion dollars just to buy ROW. As for the cutting through limestone, well, I don't think there's much limestone under the airport but in terms of tunneling, it worked fairly well for that big ass flood tunnel we have under downtown.Get back to me with your cost projections on the San Antonio Airport Subway, chief.


But I will say that BRT and LRT will be running in SA MANY MANY decades before that 70 mile commuter line gets going. But hey, if you honestly want to live in a delusional world where that commuter line is a possibly and where investing your life in NBDL basketball is considered anything other than lame, well, you go right ahead.At least I take my own pictures.

[Buddy Holly]

At least I take my own pictures.

And they're about as interesting as the old hat of insults you pulled that nugget from. :wakeup

[ChumpDumper]

You can't deny the classics. Intellectual theft is a pet peeve of mine, and yours was one of the most comically egregious I can recall -- to say nothing of the aftermath of your exposure as a thief. I remember your mea culpa posts as delightful entertainment.

Anyway, the three mile water tunnel was a federal project, so there really wasn't much in the way of local horse trading and financial wrangling that will definitely exist in your local subway project.

[Buddy Holly]

You can't deny the classics. Intellectual theft is a pet peeve of mine, and yours was one of the most comically egregious I can recall -- to say nothing of the aftermath of your exposure as a thief. I remember your mea culpa posts as delightful entertainment.

That's sad.


Anyway, the three mile water tunnel was a federal project, so there really wasn't much in the way of local horse trading and financial wrangling that will definitely exist in your local subway project.

So what is it? It's not happening because of limestone or because of funding? Which is it? Or is there another theoretical stumbling block in the way that you have yet to reveal?

So hey, this was fun and all but I'm done with you and I'm getting this train of a thread back on the right track discussion. :toast

[Buddy Holly]

The type of bus that will be used for the BRT line. VIA plans to purchase 12-15 of these for the line.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3063/2757613780_289553a5da.jpg


How the bus stops will look.

http://www.viabrt.net/Images/StationInterior.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

That's sad. Which part is sad to you?




So what is it? It's not happening because of limestone or because of funding? Which is it? Or is there another theoretical stumbling block in the way that you have yet to reveal?I think it's kind of a silly idea given all the existing track in the area. Is there some airport subway plan in the works?


So hey, this was fun and all but I'm done with you and I'm getting this train of a thread back on the right track discussion. :toastYeah, it's best you drop the conversation with me before I start searching for threads by keywords: Slomo San Antonio photographs.

[Buddy Holly]

Which part is sad to you?

:lol

Was that rhetorical?

:lol


I think it's kind of a silly idea given all the existing track in the area. Is there some airport subway plan in the works?

The concept of hypothetical suggestions made on a forum just bewilders you, huh?


Yeah, it's best you drop the conversation with me before I start searching for threads by keywords: Slomo San Antonio photographs.

Nope. It's right here. This is like the second time in the last month I've posted this link. :hat

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15267

[exstatic]

http://marcel-marchon.com/img--117945132--Chicago-El-train--m.jpg
if the train was above ground like that it would be perfect, while also utilizing some of the existing rail spikes that we have across town...so it would save the expense of building a monorail...
Elevated is a terrible idea. It would pretty much triple the cost to raise it up when there's no need. We're not an anthill like NY or CHI.


i think the BRT is a cop out...poorly planned too...we can't increase ridership if we just focus on areas where we already know people will ride...
Uh, Bus Rapid Transit means more trips per hour, and more riders because of that.


we need to think bigger than just going out to the rim...incorporating the suburbs as well...put a train to boerne, new braunfels/san marcos, spring branch, floresville, poteet, castroville, seguin, etc...that way it would encourage those that want to live out in suburbia to do so w/o sprawling out SA more...it would take congestion away from those who comute, and would still have stops on major arteries in the city which would then connect to bus stops....

You're never going to get the public to fund a huge project like that right off the bat. You have to start small with something like The Rim, where the tracks exist already and all you have to pay for is the rolling stock and the stations. Build on that success. I agree that long term, you want more light rail, but if you try to shove too much down the public's tax throat all at once, they choke, and then nothing gets done.

[Buddy Holly]

BRT is good especially when used along with LRT.

FYI, the BRT buses are 60 feet in length.

[baseline bum]

BRT sucks if you work 9-5 hours. Having rode them a lot in LA, what happened every single day was most of the buses on a route would get bunched together in traffic, and you would have a bus on the same route coming by every 10 minutes for a while, and often they'd come one right after the other (as in <1 minute after). However, as soon as that bunched group passed, it would be 45 minutes or so before another one would get back. Taking the trains was so much better and way faster. Buses are horrible in comparison to trains on dedicated lines.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol

Was that rhetorical?

:lolNo, I wanted to know which part was sad.


The concept of hypothetical suggestions made on a forum just bewilders you, huh?Hypothetically, where would it run and how much would it cost?


Nope. It's right here. This is like the second time in the last month I've posted this link. :hat

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15267What convinced you to stay post-meltdown?
So hey, this was fun and all but I'm done with you and I'm getting this train of a thread back on the right track discussion. :toastWell, it's not the first time you lied.

[ChumpDumper]

Elevated is a terrible idea. It would pretty much triple the cost to raise it up when there's no need. We're not an anthill like NY or CHI.


Uh, Bus Rapid Transit means more trips per hour, and more riders because of that.



You're never going to get the public to fund a huge project like that right off the bat. You have to start small with something like The Rim, where the tracks exist already and all you have to pay for is the rolling stock and the stations. Build on that success. I agree that long term, you want more light rail, but if you try to shove too much down the public's tax throat all at once, they choke, and then nothing gets done.It's pretty easy to agree with so much common sense.

[Bender]

everytime I pass a Via bus, it looks either empty, or just a couple of people in it...

[Oh, Gee!!]

a tejano singer driving every bus

[johnsmith]

:lol

Was that rhetorical?

:lol



The concept of hypothetical suggestions made on a forum just bewilders you, huh?



Nope. It's right here. This is like the second time in the last month I've posted this link. :hat

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15267


:lmao:lmao:lmao

That's the first time I've actually read that thread. My favorite was this:


This is a Internet forum and none of you know who I am. Never seen me in real life. Don’t even know how I look. So why am I defeated?

Simple.

I have no self esteem. You guys don’t know why. And I really don’t care to explain my childhood. But it sucks.

Bash me all you want, call me whatever you want. Throw all the insults you want. I won’t be here to take them.

I’m a loser, I get it. I am. I pretend to be this smart guy who is this next big writer or city leader.

Hell, I’d be lucky to be any in life.

[Buddy Holly]

It sucks when people don't understand sarcasm.

Can we finally stop side tracking this thread?

[Bender]

I just browsed thru the old Writer thread. that was way before my time here.

[johnsmith]

It sucks when people don't understand sarcasm.

Can we finally stop side tracking this thread?

Why? That shit is WAY more entertaining.

[JudynTX]

How about we let someone from Chicago run this town for the next 8 years?

http://marcel-marchon.com/img--117945132--Chicago-El-train--m.jpg

Word!

[mouse]

I think Slomo made to big of a deal about those pictures. If I take a picture of the Alamo and someone wants to make a sig or banner of it or use it to tell someone else they went to San Antonio etc.... I would have no problem with it.

That is why they make watermarks if your really worried about someone using your photos.

I mean Slomo and others have the right to get upset but i just feel when you put something on the www it's a goner. Who here has never copied an image you saw online and used it for your own purpose?

Anyway that's been my 2 cents on images you see online.


As far as San Antonio goes they always wait till the last minute to do shit. Look at IH-10 they had it built in time for the 1968 Worlds fair and it was only two lanes? Wtf kinda city planner makes a two lane hwy in a large growing downtown city?

Maybe this way they can have job security as they have to add more lanes in the decades to come? Was it an oversight?

Then they build a huge Dome when you don't have any NFL team? And you now want to make toll roads to charge your own San Antonio tax payers for using your roads so they can go to work only to pay more taxes and support the very city that is fucking them?

I don't want to be all negative San Antonio did finally put a public restroom downtown back in 2007 so they are at least trying to make progress. :tu