WTC7: NIST Finally Admits Freefall (Part I)

[Galileo]

WTC7: NIST Finally Admits Freefall (Part I)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0GHVEKrhng

The 9/11 hoax is falling apart at free-fall speed, like a house of cards!

:lmao

:ihit

:nope

:rollin

[ChumpDumper]

Makes sense if you aren't insane.

[Galileo]

Makes sense if you aren't insane.

That's why NIST believes it.

[DarrinS]

I'm just curious:


At what acceleration should a collapsing building fall?


At Moon's gravity? LOL


I would think that a collapsing structure (on Earth -- let's be clear) would fall somewhere near a rate of 32.2 feet/sec/sec.


Next.

[Galileo]

I'm just curious:


At what acceleration should a collapsing building fall?


At Moon's gravity? LOL


I would think that a collapsing structure (on Earth -- let's be clear) would fall somewhere near a rate of 32.2 feet/sec/sec.


Next.

A rigid steel-framed building would not fall, whether here on earth, or on the Moon.

[DarrinS]

A rigid steel-framed building would not fall, whether here on earth, or on the Moon.


Things made of steel fail all the time. When they fail, they often fall. I know -- I'm a mechanical engineer.

[Yonivore]

I guess that steel bridge in Minnesota didn't fall either.

[DarrinS]

I guess that steel bridge in Minnesota didn't fall either.


It was another controlled demolition by Bush and Cheney. But the idiots forgot to fly the fake planes into it this time.


Sincerely,


Nbadan and Galileo

[baseline bum]

I guess that steel bridge in Minnesota didn't fall either.

:lmao

[Galileo]

I guess that steel bridge in Minnesota didn't fall either.

The bridge was not steel-framed, it was steel reinforced concrete.

[ChumpDumper]

The bridge was not steel-framed, it was steel reinforced concrete.It's so easy to catch you lying.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/I-35W_Bridge_-_April%2C_2006.jpg

[Yonivore]

The bridge was not steel-framed, it was steel reinforced concrete.
No, it was a steel bridge with a concrete roadbed.

[baseline bum]

Things made of steel fail all the time. When they fail, they often fall. I know -- I'm a mechanical engineer.

Well, but Galileo did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[Yonivore]

Well, but Galileo did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Oh well...game over for us then.

[mouse]

It's so easy to catch you lying.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/I-35W_Bridge_-_April%2C_2006.jpg





I guess that steel bridge in Minnesota didn't fall either.

But did it turn into powder?

[Yonivore]

But did it turn into powder?

Did it fall the equivalent of 110 stories with 110 stories worth of building on top of it?

And, that bridge fell because of a structural failure in the steel, not any concrete components.

[mouse]

Did it fall the equivalent of 110 stories with 110 stories worth of building on top of it?

The first five floors of the WTC didn't have far to fall why would there be no desks, or any other items? You guys find any reason you can to steer clear form the truth.




And, that bridge fell because of a structural failure in the steel, not any concrete components.

A bridge and a Steel framed building = apples and oranges.

[Yonivore]

The first five floors of the WTC didn't have far to fall why would there be no desks, or any other items? You guys find any reason you can to steer clear form the truth.
Well, besides the fact they did find alot of office equipment in the debris, most of it was obliterated by the other 105 floors worth of building that came down on top of it.


A bridge and a Steel framed building = apples and oranges.
More like apples and pears but, they both grow on trees.

[mouse]

Well, besides the fact they did find alot of office equipment in the debris,

Show me some pics of all this office debris they found.



most of it was obliterated by the other 105 floors worth of building that came down on top of it.

Then where is the office furniture of the top floors since they didn't have anything above them? You guys say it's called the pancake theory then much of the debris would be trapped between floors.

And your 105 floors theory will not work on Building 7 so come up with another excuse.



More like apples and pears but, they both grow on trees.

But ignorant white people only pick what they can reach.


http://www.johnnyjet.com/images/PicForNewsletterSept2005IldeReAndyPickingApples.JP G

[DarrinS]

But did it turn into powder?



Do you guys just make shit up?


You think the WTC just turned into a giant pile of talcum powder? I guess that's why it took so long to escavate and haul all of that debris out of there.:rolleyes


A bunch of photos of debris removed from WTC can be seen on this website.
(I'm sure there are many others)

http://redeye.chicagotribune.com/news/am-wtcrelics-pg2006,0,261984.photogallery?index=35

[Desert Plains]

Where are the desk ,chairs, and computers? All I saw was shit you see after a bomb went off. Did you even look at the link you posted?

[Yonivore]

Where are the desk ,chairs, and computers? All I saw was shit you see after a bomb went off. Did you even look at the link you posted?
And, if you saw an office building, after a bomb went off, you'd find desks, chairs, and computers.

[Desert Plains]

I have come to the conclusion that Yonnie,Chump,and all his glue sniffing pals really don't want the truth, they just want to disagree with people.

[DarrinS]

I have come to the conclusion that Yonnie,Chump,and all his glue sniffing pals really don't want the truth, they just want to disagree with people.


_jgaddguhs4

[clambake]

it does kind of make sense, considering the weight of the building would have no effect on it's collapse, because gravity doesn't exist above the 40th floor.

[DarrinS]

It's amazing what a large projectile followed by fire can do to a structure.


faQLrb7-qQ8


hXb5M8qKrjw

[Cartman]

it does kind of make sense, considering the weight of the building would have no effect on it's collapse, because gravity doesn't exist above the 40th floor.


And don't forget steel frame Buildings that collapse have fires of molten metal weeks later! :tu

[mouse]

What is even more amazing is how a collapse building can just shear off it's steel beams at a perfect 45 degree angle.


http://piratenews.org/thermite-thermate-wtc-steel400.jpg


Let's face it! the only projectiles around here are the bullshit turds coming out of some of your misguided fools mouths.

[ChumpDumper]

What is even more amazing is how a collapse building can just shear off it's steel beams at a perfect 45 degree angle.


http://piratenews.org/thermite-thermate-wtc-steel400.jpgIt's amazing how rescue workers cut beams at an angle.

[Last Comic Standing]

It's amazing how rescue workers cut beams at an angle.

And they are pretty good with a jack hammer also.



http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/im_blog/pentagon_hole1_sm.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

That was a plane.

[mouse]

It's amazing how rescue workers cut beams at an angle.


It's official Chump has run out of lame excuses. Next you will say JFK died from whiplash.

[ChumpDumper]

It's official Chump has run out of lame excuses.Seriously, we've been over this several times. Do you really need to see the other beams that were cut identically?


Next you will say JFK died from whiplash.He died when Lee Harvey Oswald shot him in the head.

[DarrinS]

What is even more amazing is how a collapse building can just shear off it's steel beams at a perfect 45 degree angle.


http://piratenews.org/thermite-thermate-wtc-steel400.jpg


Let's face it! the only projectiles around here are the bullshit turds coming out of some of your misguided fools mouths.



ySHgiUxnLC0

[RandomGuy]

Where are the desk ,chairs, and computers? All I saw was shit you see after a bomb went off. Did you even look at the link you posted?

Mouse, just stick with one profile, it makes it sooooo much easier.

[RandomGuy]

Re-hash all the old crap where it belongs. Somewhere in the 70+ pages of this thread all of those tired old bits have been debunked.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65131

Concrete turned to powder: didn't really happen
no office material survived: yes, it did
"motel metal" weeks after: yes, there was, but it wasn't structural steel, it was probably aluminum.

How to make a 9-11 controlled demolition thread:
Lie, spin, repeat

[RandomGuy]

Let’s do a quickie, common sense thought experiment to help understand what the “controlled demolition” theory is trying to say.

The controlled demolition theory rests on the following assumption: “the building was too strong to have collapsed from simple gravity”

Put another way “the building could easily absorb the energy of the falling section and not fully collapse”

Does this pass the common sense muster?

Let’s take an average guy off the street. He can hold a 100 pound bag over his head for a few minutes. Say he is balancing it on his head to make things simple. In terms of physics this means he is providing a force equal to gravity in order to hold this bag motionless.

This is what the lower 80 stories did for the upper 30 stories for 30 years before 9-11.

Now, one story is about 12.32 feet. The thirty floors started falling through the damaged sections, and at least one damaged, weakened floor gave way.

Take that bag away from our average guy and hold it 12.32 feet over his head. Now drop it on his head. What happens?

Ouch is right.

Let’s see how many pounds of force will be applied by that bag to the guy’s head.

KE is measured in joules. KE= ½* mass * velocity *velocity
First let’s convert to metric for ease of calculation.
Mass=45.36 kg http://manuelsweb.com/kg_lbs.htm
H = 12.32 feet = 3.65 meters http://www.saudia-online.com/conversion%20Table.htm
Ending velocity of bag= 8.45 meters/s http://tutor4physics.com/calculators.htm

KE= ½(45.36)(8.45)(8.45) = 1619 joules
Convert 1619 Joules back to food/pounds force a.k.a. weight = 598 http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/ccenrgy.htm (http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/ccenrgy.htm)

For the controlled demolition theory to be correct the guy’s head must be able to apply almost 598 foot/pounds of force to stop the bag after such a fall.

Is this reasonable? I think we can safely, and without the possibility of jail time for seriously injuring some poor test subject, conclude that it is not.

Maybe “Galileo” would like to put this theory’s primary assumption to the test with a 100 bag of bullshit?

The original Galileo was actually instrumental in noting that the rate of falling objects is not dependant on mass http://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/stargaze/Smass.htm . Perhaps our modern, more retarded, version of the real scientist can contribute something to science and prove that his head can hold, even for a split second, an eleven hundred pound object.

Dan, or anyone else, please feel free to recheck my calculations here. I might have deliberately made a mistake just to see if you are really following along… ;)

Here's some more math. Still waiting...

By the way, the reasont that Dan never points out the mistake that I deliberately made here is that the bag applies a force equal to 1200 pounds, not 600. For him to point this out would be to admit to himself that the buildings didn't need actual demolitions to collapse.

[RandomGuy]

Where are the desk ,chairs, and computers? All I saw was shit you see after a bomb went off. Did you even look at the link you posted?

By the by, those pictures showed stuffed animals, papers, figurines, framed artwork, and other things that were recovered from the debris pile.

They may not have been desks, chairs, and computers, exactly as you asked for, but they are exactly the kinds of objects you seem to imply don't exist, because they would have been supposedly destroyed in the "demolition".

[RandomGuy]

Since the massive columns of the WTC buildings needed these massive explosions to have been cut, do the CTers have any pictures of widespread glass breakage from the buildings surrounding ground zero?

Thousands of cutting charges set off all at once surely would have shattered a lot of windows within a few blocks, yes?

[RandomGuy]

Oddly enough we also don't have reports of debris being hurtled outwards at thousands of feet per second from those demolition charges either.

1400 feet per second, a debris speed on the low end resulting from actual explosives would have thrown debris and glass 7000+ feet from the building, given the explosives started at about the 80th floor and would have had about five to seven seconds to fall.

This is another thing that the real "Galileo" taught us. The picture below is from Galileo's own hand, describing one of his most important experiments.

http://www.mansfieldct.org/schools/mms/staff/hand/galileo.gif
Here we see objects propelled outwards horizontally at different speeds, all falling to the ground from the same height at the same rate. The faster the horizontal speed, the farther the distance from the point of origin.


Do we have any reports of people injured from falling glass who where over a mile away from the collapse?

If we do not, that indicates that the debris from the towers was not propelled outwards at thousands of feet per second. Since ANY explosives powerful enough to cut steel beams would create debris moving at thousands of feet per second outwards, then we can assume there were no explosives.

[DizzG.]

I am finally convinced RandomGuy is the son of Larry Silverstein.

[Yonivore]

Dayum, you go RG.

[Nbadan]

Let’s do a quickie, common sense thought experiment to help understand what the “controlled demolition” theory is trying to say.

The controlled demolition theory rests on the following assumption: “the building was too strong to have collapsed from simple gravity”

Put another way “the building could easily absorb the energy of the falling section and not fully collapse”

Does this pass the common sense muster?

Let’s take an average guy off the street. He can hold a 100 pound bag over his head for a few minutes. Say he is balancing it on his head to make things simple. In terms of physics this means he is providing a force equal to gravity in order to hold this bag motionless.

This is what the lower 80 stories did for the upper 30 stories for 30 years before 9-11.

Now, one story is about 12.32 feet. The thirty floors started falling through the damaged sections, and at least one damaged, weakened floor gave way.

Take that bag away from our average guy and hold it 12.32 feet over his head. Now drop it on his head. What happens?

Ouch is right.

:lmao

This is hilarious....stick to accounting....probably for a brokerage...

:lol

[DarrinS]

For the tin foil hat crowd, this is what a controlled demolition SOUNDS like

7Ng5qwtR59A

[Nbadan]

By the way, the reasont that Dan never points out the mistake that I deliberately made here is that the bag applies a force equal to 1200 pounds, not 600. For him to point this out would be to admit to himself that the buildings didn't need actual demolitions to collapse.

..probably because 'the reasont Dan' is having trouble distinguishing between the mistake you deliberately made and the mistakes you unintentionally made...

[mouse]

For the tin foil hat crowd, this is what a controlled demolition SOUNDS like



For the Bush lovers this is what a cover up sounds like.

cQhJXsukn7U

[baseline bum]

..probably because 'the reasont Dan' is having trouble distinguishing between the mistake you deliberately made and the mistakes you unintentionally made...

I.e., foot-pound-force is a measure of work (i.e., energy), not of force. RG, you were calculating the change in kinetic energy over the fall, not the force at the point of impact. Also, since gravity is conservative, you could have just calculated that change as the change in potential mgh = 1620 J.

If you want the magnitude of the force, it's F = m a = m dv/dt, where dv/dt is roughly the change in velocity from the final speed it gets just before hitting (~ dv) divided by the impact time (~ dt).

Impact time is approx. 200 ms or so for a collision like this, and in that 200 milliseconds the velocity of the bag goes from what it was at to zero.

Call the final speed just before impact vf:

vf = g*tf where tf is the time it takes to drop (since it was dropped with zero speed)

Call the height it was dropped h

h = 1/2 g tf^2
Then, tf = sqrt(2 h/g) = sqrt(2*3.65m/(9.8m/s^2))
==> tf = 0.86 seconds to fall the distance h = 3.65 meters

vf = g*tf = 9.8 m/s^2 * 0.86 s = 8.43 m/s

therefore, dv ~ 8.43 m/s - 0 = 8.43 m/s
dt ~ 0.2 s (the impact time)

I technically shouldn't write dv/dt, as differentials aren't numbers, so if you want to be anal dv should be read delta-v and not differential-v (and the same for dt).

F = m dv/dt = 45.36 kg * (8.43 m/s / (0.2 s)) = 1900 Newton

1 Newton = 0.225 lb

Therefore, F = 1900 N * 0.225 lb/N = 430 lb

The guy's only feeling 4.3x the weight of the bag on his head, not 12x

[RandomGuy]

..probably because 'the reasont Dan' is having trouble distinguishing between the mistake you deliberately made and the mistakes you unintentionally made...

Then what mistakes did I unintentionally make Dan?

Will you let me drop a 100 pound bag on your head from 12 feet then?

Name the time and place.

[Yonivore]

The guy's only feeling 4.3x the weight of the bag on his head, not 12x
And his neck isn't made of steel. I think the comparison is still valid.

[RandomGuy]

I.e., foot-pound-force is a measure of work (i.e., energy), not of force. RG, you were calculating the change in kinetic energy over the fall, not the force at the point of impact. Also, since gravity is conservative, you could have just calculated that change as the change in potential mgh = 1620 J.

If you want the magnitude of the force, it's F = m a = m dv/dt, where dv/dt is roughly the change in velocity from the final speed it gets just before hitting (~ dv) divided by the impact time (~ dt).

Impact time is approx. 200 ms or so for a collision like this, and in that 200 milliseconds the velocity of the bag goes from what it was at to zero.

Call the final speed just before impact vf:

vf = g*tf where tf is the time it takes to drop (since it was dropped with zero speed)

Call the height it was dropped h

h = 1/2 g tf^2
Then, tf = sqrt(2 h/g) = sqrt(2*3.65m/(9.8m/s^2))
==> tf = 0.86 seconds to fall the distance h = 3.65 meters

vf = g*tf = 9.8 m/s^2 * 0.86 s = 8.43 m/s

therefore, dv ~ 8.43 m/s - 0 = 8.43 m/s
dt ~ 0.2 s (the impact time)

I technically shouldn't write dv/dt, as differentials aren't numbers, so if you want to be anal dv should be read delta-v and not differential-v (and the same for dt).

F = m dv/dt = 45.36 kg * (8.43 m/s / (0.2 s)) = 1900 Newton

1 Newton = 0.225 lb

Therefore, F = 1900 N * 0.225 lb/N = 430 lb

The guy's only feeling 4.3x the weight of the bag on his head, not 12x

How much force would you have to apply to the bag to hold it stationary against gravity?

[baseline bum]

How much force would you have to apply to the bag to hold it stationary against gravity?

At the point of impact? 430 lbs upwards. Then 100 lbs upwards to keep it there after that. I'm not disputing your thesis that it's ridiculous to expect each floor to hold up after the above one drops on it, just the logic.

[mouse]

You all can talk about gravity,weight,and every scientific senerio connected to the WTC and it still deosnt explain how 47 steel beams in the inner core can fold like Nash's legs during one of his many flops on the court.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/wtc1_core.jpg

But I am sure Chump and his many Bush loving pack rats in this forum will find a way to fool you all into thinking otherwise.

http://www.thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/WTC/they-lied-about-trusses.htm

[Milton.]

This man gets it! :tu

[mouse]

The bottom line no matter how many links,pictures, or quotes these Sean Hannity worshipers post, they know at the end the truth will always surface, and that day is very near.

[T Park.]

The bottom line no matter how many links,pictures, or quotes these Sean Hannity worshipers post, they know at the end the truth will always surface, and that day is very near.


To bad none of us will be alive when that day finally comes. :depressed

[RandomGuy]

At the point of impact? 430 lbs upwards. Then 100 lbs upwards to keep it there after that. I'm not disputing your thesis that it's ridiculous to expect each floor to hold up after the above one drops on it, just the logic.

There is where I need some clarification.

What is the exact relationship between weight and force?

1 foot pound force = 1 pound to my understanding.

Basically, the definition of weight is how much force needs to be applied to an object to hold it motionless against gravity, correct?

[RandomGuy]

The bottom line no matter how many links,pictures, or quotes these Sean Hannity worshipers post, they know at the end the truth will always surface, and that day is very near.

You forgot to say "amen" to that prayer.

Either the conspiracy theorists are right about a massive organized evil conspiracy, or they are wrong.

If they are right about 9-11 being planned by an evil government conspiracy willing and capable of killing thousand of their own citizens, they would be just as motivated to keep that fact a secret.

An easy method of doing this is to do a disinformation campaign. All it takes is one or two paid evil guys willing to lie, a computer and some time.

The best way to do such a disinformation campaign is, as the conspiracy theorists themselves point out is as follows:
Think of the stupidest shit possible
Present it in such a blatantly false and easily debunked manner that anybody with any common sense at all would recognize it immediately as stupid bullshit
This would then lead normal people to then associate all the real conspiracy evidence with this obvious quackery to discredit the whole movement to expose the grand evil conspiracy
IF there is a grand evil conspiracy, THEN at least SOME of the conspiracy "evidence" has been manufactured to be obviously stupid to put people off the trail.

THEREFORE:
IF the evil conpiracy exists AND you say you believe all of the conspiracy "evidence/theories" you MUST either:

1) Be one of those paid disinformation agents, and be lying and evil

or

2) Be too stupid to not recognize the obviously fake stuff that has been planted by the paid disinformation agents.


What parts of the "government did it conspiracy" theory DON'T you believe in, mouse?

[doobs]

Quick poll:

9/11 conspiracy theorists . . . how many of you:
(1) Have a full-time job?
(2) Live in a different building than your parents, and pay rent? If you own a house, that's cool, too.

Just curious.

[mouse]

Quick poll:

9/11 conspiracy theorists . . . how many of you:
(1) Have a full-time job?
(2) Live in a different building than your parents, and pay rent? If you own a house, that's cool, too.

Just curious.


Why can't someone ask questions about 9/11 w/o being labeled a conspiracy theorists?

are you saying all the people who want to know why there family members died on that day are tin foil hat wearing nuts?

here is a quicker poll just for you.

(1) How many of you who believe everything this Government tells you actually have a pair of balls?

(2) How many of you who don't want to really know what took place on 9/11 actually have had sex at least once in the last four years? If you own at least one Harry Potter dvd that's cool also.

just curious.

[DarrinS]

Why can't someone ask questions about 9/11 w/o being labeled a conspiracy theorists?

are you saying all the people who want to know why there family members died on that day are tin foil hat wearing nuts?

here is a quicker poll just for you.

(1) How many of you who believe everything this Government tells you actually have a pair of balls?

(2) How many of you who don't want to really know what took place on 9/11 actually have had sex at least once in the last four years? If you own at least one Harry Potter dvd that's cool also.

just curious.


sAXN0YKBMMQ

9-s5GHz_UOo

[ClingingMars]

Makes sense if you aren't insane.

[Galileo]

sAXN0YKBMMQ

9-s5GHz_UOo

low self esteem, eh?

[baseline bum]

Damn, Bullshit is such a great show :lol

[mouse]

So this is the new cop out? post a YouTube video instead of answering a question? Did DeBunkDumpChumper fuck things up that bad around here?

[ChumpDumper]

:lol @ mouse's bitching about people posting YouTubes.

[ClingingMars]

how is ChumpDumper one of the most rational posters here?

-Mars

[DarrinS]

So this is the new cop out? post a YouTube video instead of answering a question? Did DeBunkDumpChumper fuck things up that bad around here?


I just want you guys to see how you look and sound to us normal people.


RukhnSSUmeI