Mike Leach is an idiot

[word]

He's all mad about Harrell not being invited to NY. They pretty much know the votes. Not being invited means he had no chance and was clearly 4th in the voting. Then he uses stats but for passing yards. But if that were what did it...then Harrell STILL would not be the Heisman. Of course, Bill Walten agrees with Leach....haha....yeah...and ? Let's let Bill Walton vote in the Harris Poll and the Heisman and start being a commentator on Saturday afternoon. I mean, lets let everyone have a say here.

[johngateswhiteley]

i actually like what Leach had to say...and he was right on about the politics.

[Blake]

Leach is right in everything that he said.

either way though, Harrell wasn't going to win it.

[cash459]

He wasnt going to win it, but Leach was right about it being a politics thing. To say that he is not considered one of the top 4 players in college at this moment, is ridiculous!

Let me hear someone say that it was b/c he lost to OU too......

[Kermit]

Fuck Leach. This is what he gets for voting OU and Tech ahead of Texas. Maybe he should think and take Visor's dick out of his ass before he opens his mouth about biases and politics. What a fucking hypocritical douche.

[FromWayDowntown]

He's all mad about Harrell not being invited to NY. They pretty much know the votes. Not being invited means he had no chance and was clearly 4th in the voting. Then he uses stats but for passing yards. But if that were what did it...then Harrell STILL would not be the Heisman. Of course, Bill Walten agrees with Leach....haha....yeah...and ? Let's let Bill Walton vote in the Harris Poll and the Heisman and start being a commentator on Saturday afternoon. I mean, lets let everyone have a say here.

They know the guy who finished 3rd, too, but he got invited to NYC.

[Kermit]

And Leach should be infinitely more pissed about Crabtree not getting invited, seeing as how he is far and away the best collegiate football player. Period.

[I Love Me Some Me]

Let me hear someone say that it was b/c he lost to OU too......

It's because he got curbstomped by OU...and because he's probably not as good as Leach and all the Techies think he is.

[Blake]

Fuck Leach. This is what he gets for voting OU and Tech ahead of Texas. Maybe he should think and take Visor's dick out of his ass before he opens his mouth about biases and politics. What a fucking hypocritical douche.

please. Did Stoops vote OU ahead of UT? Did Mack vote UT ahead of OU?

that's I thought. don't blame Leach, blame the system. Either that or feel free to stfu

[2centsworth]

Harrell is a product of the system and Crabtree is on coke.

[samikeyp]

Leach is, sadly, following the "whine about how life is unfair to my team" trend set forth by Brown and Stoops.

[Blake]

Leach is, sadly, following the "whine about how life is unfair to my team" trend set forth by Brown and Stoops.

thing is, Leach has a legitimate gripe about something that costs nobody anything but a couple of plane tickets for Harrell and Crabtree.

Brown and Stoops were griping on different matters regarding bowl invitations.

Since Harrell was the top Heisman candidate up until about 3 weeks ago, this is blatantly clear that this is a purposeful snub. We've seen 5 candidates go to NYC time and again. Why not this year?

Makes no sense.

[MajorMike]

I really don't see what the big deal is. Normally they look and see where the breakdown of votes is and when there is a big drop-off they stop the votes. Last year they had 4, '06 they had 3, '05 they had 3, '04 they had 5. Apparently it was obvious in the vote that the top 3 were who they were and there must have been a definite separation between 3 and 4.

[K-State Spur]

He's all mad about Harrell not being invited to NY. They pretty much know the votes. Not being invited means he had no chance and was clearly 4th in the voting. Then he uses stats but for passing yards. But if that were what did it...then Harrell STILL would not be the Heisman. Of course, Bill Walten agrees with Leach....haha....yeah...and ? Let's let Bill Walton vote in the Harris Poll and the Heisman and start being a commentator on Saturday afternoon. I mean, lets let everyone have a say here.

It is a stupid award and I'd be plum happy to see everybody quit putting so much stock into it.

Just call it the "QB for a top 10 team with the best stats" award.

[cash459]

It's because he got curbstomped by OU...and because he's probably not as good as Leach and all the Techies think he is.

oh really!?

here are Harrell's stats for that curb stomping that you say HE took:

33-55
361yds
60.0% Comp. Per.
34 Lng Pass
3 TD
1 Int
129.50 Rating

So the team got an ass kicking, yes, the Defense (or lack thereof) got embarassed.

Harrell carried his weight. To not include him in Heisman talks, for the loss that he performed well in, is ridiculous.

so stfu, b/c if ANY qb in the country put up those numbers, people would say thats a damn good game.

[cash459]

Harrell is a product of the system and Crabtree is on coke.

McCoy is a product of a system too. :toast

[I Love Me Some Me]

oh really!?

here are Harrell's stats for that curb stomping that you say HE took:

33-55
361yds
60.0% Comp. Per.
34 Lng Pass
3 TD
1 Int
129.50 Rating

So the team got an ass kicking, yes, the Defense (or lack thereof) got embarassed.

Harrell carried his weight. To not include him in Heisman talks, for the loss that he performed well in, is ridiculous.

so stfu, b/c if ANY qb in the country put up those numbers, people would say thats a damn good game.

6.6 yards per attempt? I can complete 60% of my passes if I'm throwing 5 yard bubble screens all day long. In that same game, Bradford gained about 50 fewer yards on about 40 fewer throws. Harrell racks up the yards, but is no where near as efficient as Bradford or even McCoy.

[Blake]

6.6 yards per attempt? I can complete 60% of my passes if I'm throwing 5 yard bubble screens all day long. In that same game, Bradford gained about 50 fewer yards on about 40 fewer throws. Harrell racks up the yards, but is no where near as efficient as Bradford or even McCoy.

well Bradford wasn't playing against the OU defense on the road now was he?

sheez. just drop it.

[I Love Me Some Me]

well Bradford wasn't playing against the OU defense on the road now was he?

sheez. just drop it.


OU's defense is terrible and everyone knows that.


Look, when you throw the ball 50 times a game, you're gonna have gaudy numbers. He's just not as good as you guys think he is.

[Blake]

OU's defense is terrible and everyone knows that.

they are #2 in total defense in the conference, giving up the fewest yards per play: 5.1


Look, when you throw the ball 50 times a game, you're gonna have gaudy numbers. He's just not as good as you guys think he is.

and when you throw it 50 times, that means you are completing your passes and moving the chains. His average is 8.4 yards per completion which is basically on par with any other QB in the country other than Bradford.

Nobody is saying the guy is Bradford or even Colt McCoy but he's not as average as you are making him out to be.

When you punch the football across the goalline a total of 48 times, you are doing something right, "system" or not.

[samikeyp]

thing is, Leach has a legitimate gripe about something that costs nobody anything but a couple of plane tickets for Harrell and Crabtree.

Brown and Stoops were griping on different matters regarding bowl invitations.

Since Harrell was the top Heisman candidate up until about 3 weeks ago, this is blatantly clear that this is a purposeful snub. We've seen 5 candidates go to NYC time and again. Why not this year?

Makes no sense.

Just because its his opinion doesn't make it fact or make him right, or wrong.

I don't have a problem with him sticking up for his player but I think the way he does it comes off whiny, IMO.

One thing I would like to know is how they determine who a finalist is. Some years they invite 4 or 5, some years 3. I would imagine there is a certain number votes that has to be achieved. I seriously doubt they randomly pick who gets to go which is I don't buy the "politics" argument or the "reputation" argument Harrell was going with last night on ESPN radio.

[cash459]

6.6 yards per attempt? I can complete 60% of my passes if I'm throwing 5 yard bubble screens all day long. In that same game, Bradford gained about 50 fewer yards on about 40 fewer throws. Harrell racks up the yards, but is no where near as efficient as Bradford or even McCoy.

ok, if thats your logic, then McCoy's numbers dont mean shit either. How many times does he throw the ball down the field!?!? He does the SAME type of little dump offs and screen passes. Maybe not as often, but when you rarely throw the ball over 30 yards down field, you damn well better have a high percentage.

and speaking of McCoy....what were his numbers against OU??....go find them & then we can discuss who was better. And im not talking about who won, thats NOT the discussion, so dont go there.

[I Love Me Some Me]

ok, if thats your logic, then McCoy's numbers dont mean shit either. How many times does he throw the ball down the field!?!? He does the SAME type of little dump offs and screen passes. Maybe not as often, but when you rarely throw the ball over 30 yards down field, you damn well better have a high percentage.

and speaking of McCoy....what were his numbers against OU??....go find them & then we can discuss who was better. And im not talking about who won, thats NOT the discussion, so dont go there.

You mean the game where Colt only threw 7 incomplete passes (vs. Graham's 22 incompletions against the same team...22 incomplete passes), a TD, didn't turn the ball over and averaged about 8 yards per pass vs. about 6 yards per pass.

Harrell is a volume passer. Plain and simple.

[pkbpkb81]

Fuck Leach. This is what he gets for voting OU and Tech ahead of Texas. Maybe he should think and take Visor's dick out of his ass before he opens his mouth about biases and politics. What a fucking hypocritical douche.

he beat texas and lost ou so why shouldent he vote that way

[pkbpkb81]

please. Did Stoops vote OU ahead of UT? Did Mack vote UT ahead of OU?

that's I thought. don't blame Leach, blame the system. Either that or feel free to stfu

Stoops dosent have a vote he dosent like the system and gave his vote up a few years ago

[cash459]

You mean the game where Colt only threw 7 incomplete passes (vs. Graham's 22 incompletions against the same team...22 incomplete passes), a TD, didn't turn the ball over and averaged about 8 yards per pass vs. about 6 yards per pass.

Harrell is a volume passer. Plain and simple.

If you have more passes, youre eventually going to have more incompletions. its the law of averages in effect. & with more passes comes more potential for an interception.

[Blake]

6.6 yards per attempt? I can complete 60% of my passes if I'm throwing 5 yard bubble screens all day long. In that same game, Bradford gained about 50 fewer yards on about 40 fewer throws. Harrell racks up the yards, but is no where near as efficient as Bradford or even McCoy.

Cash, you aint gonna win any argument from someone that thinks he can step right in at the Red Raider QB position against the OU defense in Norman and complete 60% of his passes by throwing 5 yard bubble screens all day long.

He obviously loves him some him

[Blake]

I don't have a problem with him sticking up for his player but I think the way he does it comes off whiny, IMO.



whiny? maybe, but it's no more whiny than any other coach that feels like they got screwed by the system like Mack, Carroll, etc

[samikeyp]

whiny? maybe, but it's no more whiny than any other coach that feels like they got screwed by the system like Mack, Carroll, etc

agreed, which is why I brought up Stoops and Brown in the first place.

[FromWayDowntown]

It's sad that collegiate coaching now includes the responsibility to lobby -- or whine -- about perceived injustices visited upon teams or players. It's as if propagandist is one facet of the head football coach's job description at most universities that seek to climb the ladder.

Leach is a lot of things, but an idiot isn't one of them; he knows that if that program is going to continue climbing -- and there can be little doubt that Tech has, under Leach, climbed from being occasionally competitive to being a program that is now good enough to consistently play for New Year's Day bowls -- he has to make waves, fight for players, and urge the subjective analysts who drive college football to accord some respect to a program they choose to know little about.

[cash459]

Cash, you aint gonna win any argument from someone that thinks he can step right in at the Red Raider QB position against the OU defense in Norman and complete 60% of his passes by throwing 5 yard bubble screens all day long.

He obviously loves him some him

yeah, I was starting to think the same thing. :lol

[cash459]

It's sad that collegiate coaching now includes the responsibility to lobby -- or whine -- about perceived injustices visited upon teams or players. It's as if propagandist is one facet of the head football coach's job description at most universities that seek to climb the ladder.

Leach is a lot of things, but an idiot isn't one of them; he knows that if that program is going to continue climbing -- and there can be little doubt that Tech has, under Leach, climbed from being occasionally competitive to being a program that is now good enough to consistently play for New Year's Day bowls -- he has to make waves, fight for players, and urge the subjective analysts who drive college football to accord some respect to a program they choose to know little about.

i agree with this

[Blake]

It's sad that collegiate coaching now includes the responsibility to lobby -- or whine -- about perceived injustices visited upon teams or players. It's as if propagandist is one facet of the head football coach's job description at most universities that seek to climb the ladder.

Leach is a lot of things, but an idiot isn't one of them; he knows that if that program is going to continue climbing -- and there can be little doubt that Tech has, under Leach, climbed from being occasionally competitive to being a program that is now good enough to consistently play for New Year's Day bowls -- he has to make waves, fight for players, and urge the subjective analysts who drive college football to accord some respect to a program they choose to know little about.

yeah, it's a sales job.

The thing is, Leach is perceived more as a weirdo......some kind of mad scientist with some wacky views on things, so when he speaks, the perception is more of whining or 'that's just Leach being Leach'.

...whereas Mack is the conssumate salesman. He makes perfect pitches and is always in the right place at the right time, always selling the greatness of UT and of it's players.....and it works.

[leemajors]

yeah, it's a sales job.

The thing is, Leach is perceived more as a weirdo......some kind of mad scientist with some wacky views on things, so when he speaks, the perception is more of whining or 'that's just Leach being Leach'.

...whereas Mack is the conssumate salesman. He makes perfect pitches and is always in the right place at the right time, always selling the greatness of UT and of it's players.....and it works.

Mack also likes to clap a lot.

[FromWayDowntown]

Leach is trained as a lawyer and his arguments, while unorthodox in the field of college football, tend more toward the logical and a sense of consistency and overall justice (I offer that realizing that the next 3000 posts in this thread will slam my belief that any lawyer could possibly make such an argument).

I'm not sure that Leach is seen as more of a whiner than someone like Mack, at least to those who aren't dyed-in-the-wool Orangebloods, but Mack has been more effective in his lobbying than Leach, mostly because Mack has always had the better arguments to rely upon in those efforts. I still think his effort to displace Cal a few years ago in the Rose Bowl was unseemly, but I know why he did it -- and he made an argument that many could agree with. I think he had an even better argument this year and somehow didn't quite convince enough people.

I was at home all day yesterday and listened to a lot of media types weigh in on the Harrell exclusion. Most agreed that Leach had a good point and I think that in most precincts outside of places like Austin, Leach is seen as being correct on this one. But, in the end, it's clear that Harrell wasn't going to win and excluding him from the ceremony is akin to saying that the 9th best team wouldn't get into a football playoff.

[Blake]

Mack also likes to clap a lot.

:lol

[Kermit]

he beat texas and lost ou so why shouldent he vote that way

Because he voted Texas fifth and for that he's a...

fuck it. I'm done. It's over. Time to watch Colt lose the Heisman and move on.

[I Love Me Some Me]

If you have more passes, youre eventually going to have more incompletions. its the law of averages in effect. & with more passes comes more potential for an interception.

And the same law of averages also says he'll also have more yards and more TDs...in other words, he's a product of the system. He's a volume passer.

[concken]

He's all mad about Harrell not being invited to NY. They pretty much know the votes. Not being invited means he had no chance and was clearly 4th in the voting. Then he uses stats but for passing yards. But if that were what did it...then Harrell STILL would not be the Heisman. Of course, Bill Walten agrees with Leach....haha....yeah...and ? Let's let Bill Walton vote in the Harris Poll and the Heisman and start being a commentator on Saturday afternoon. I mean, lets let everyone have a say here.

Jizz


Fuck UT and everything Austin stands for...

[Blake]

And the same law of averages also says he'll also have more yards and more TDs...

that's absolutely faulty logic

[I Love Me Some Me]

that's absolutely faulty logic

No less faulty than saying he'll have more incomplete passes simply because he throws more.

[FromWayDowntown]

I guess if guys like McCoy and Bradford played in the Tech system, we should really expect completion percentages around 95% and an average of about 700 yards per game. If a no-talent hack like Harrell can put up gigantic numbers at Tech, uber-talents like those guys would destroy the record books.

[I Love Me Some Me]

I guess if guys like McCoy and Bradford played in the Tech system, we should really expect completion percentages around 95% and an average of about 700 yards per game. If a no-talent hack like Harrell can put up gigantic numbers at Tech, uber-talents like those guys would destroy the record books.

Possibly...but those uber-talents would prefer to go to schools where they know they'll have a chance to compete for a national title year-in and year-out.

[Kermit]

Jizz


Fuck UT and everything Austin stands for...

What stand has Austin taken to make you want to fuck it?

[Blake]

No less faulty than saying he'll have more incomplete passes simply because he throws more.

no it's really not the same.

Youre assuming the TDs and yardage automatically come with the system.

[Blake]

Possibly...but those uber-talents would prefer to go to schools where they know they'll have a chance to compete for a national title year-in and year-out.

the irony here being that Graham Harrell was a 4 star recruit......Colt was a 3 star......

[I Love Me Some Me]

no it's really not the same.

Youre assuming the TDs and yardage automatically come with the system.

Cash459 was assuming incomplete passes come with the system.

And...if TDs and yardage are not part of the system, what is the system for? It's not like Tech was rushing for a shitload of yards and TDs.

[I Love Me Some Me]

the irony here being that Graham Harrell was a 4 star recruit......Colt was a 3 star......

And Colt turned out to be better.


Irony indeed.

[stretch]

lol, harrell not invited to heisman ceremony

[FromWayDowntown]

I actually think the irony is the need for some Orangebloods to seek out every opportunity to diminish Texas Tech and those who represent it. You'd think that something so insignificant would warrant no attention at all. I think the insistence of some Longhorn backers in trying to put down Texas Tech only serves to demonstrate that Tech is significant enough to be a concern.

After all, you don't hear that kind of chatter about Baylor. . . .

[Kermit]

no it's really not the same.

Youre assuming the TDs and yardage automatically come with the system.

ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT RAT
2001 K. Kingsbury 529 3502 0.0 6.62 25 9 67.8
2002 K. Kingsbury 712 5017 67.3 7.05 45 13 143.7
2003 B.J. Symons 719 5833 65.4 8.11 52 22 151.3
2004 Sonny Cumbie 642 4742 65.6 7.39 32 18 138.5
2005 Cody Hodges 531 4238 66.5 7.98 31 12 148.3
2006 G. Harrell 617 4555 66.8 7.38 38 11 145.5
2007 G. Harrell 713 5705 71.8 8.00 48 14 157.3
2008 G. Harrell 568 4747 71.5 8.36 41 7 163.0

That's what it looks like to me.

[Kermit]

I actually think the irony is the need for some Orangebloods to seek out every opportunity to diminish Texas Tech and those who represent it. You'd think that something so insignificant would warrant no attention at all. I think the insistence of some Longhorn backers in trying to put down Texas Tech only serves to demonstrate that Tech is significant enough to be a concern.

After all, you don't hear that kind of chatter about Baylor. . . .

You will.

[I Love Me Some Me]

I actually think the irony is the need for some Orangebloods to seek out every opportunity to diminish Texas Tech and those who represent it. You'd think that something so insignificant would warrant no attention at all. I think the insistence of some Longhorn backers in trying to put down Texas Tech only serves to demonstrate that Tech is significant enough to be a concern.

After all, you don't hear that kind of chatter about Baylor. . . .

Tech fan is all bitter about Harrell not being invited to NY. My point is that he's just not as good as the 3 guys that ended up there. What's worse...being told you're honestly just not good enough, or getting some token invite to a ceremony that you have no business being at?

It's just a discussion, and I have a different opinion than they do. Why can't we just talk about it without it being me diminishing Tech?

[Blake]

And Colt turned out to be better.


Irony indeed.

no, he just played for the better team.

see: just about any QB Heisman trophy winner in the last 20 years

[Blake]

Cash459 was assuming incomplete passes come with the system.

And...if TDs and yardage are not part of the system, what is the system for? It's not like Tech was rushing for a shitload of yards and TDs.

hello? mcFly?

you're assuming Tech is going to score.

You still gotta hit the moving target. Dur.

[Blake]

I actually think the irony is the need for some Orangebloods to seek out every opportunity to diminish Texas Tech and those who represent it. You'd think that something so insignificant would warrant no attention at all. I think the insistence of some Longhorn backers in trying to put down Texas Tech only serves to demonstrate that Tech is significant enough to be a concern.

After all, you don't hear that kind of chatter about Baylor. . . .

and there you have it

[Blake]

ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT RAT
2001 K. Kingsbury 529 3502 0.0 6.62 25 9 67.8
2002 K. Kingsbury 712 5017 67.3 7.05 45 13 143.7
2003 B.J. Symons 719 5833 65.4 8.11 52 22 151.3
2004 Sonny Cumbie 642 4742 65.6 7.39 32 18 138.5
2005 Cody Hodges 531 4238 66.5 7.98 31 12 148.3
2006 G. Harrell 617 4555 66.8 7.38 38 11 145.5
2007 G. Harrell 713 5705 71.8 8.00 48 14 157.3
2008 G. Harrell 568 4747 71.5 8.36 41 7 163.0

That's what it looks like to me.

well golly, it appears a monkey could get back there and fling 45 TDs.

[I Love Me Some Me]

hello? mcFly?

you're assuming Tech is going to score.

You still gotta hit the moving target. Dur.

Or miss it 22 times. In one game.


That's 7 three-down possessions where the ball doesn't move one inch...in one game.

[FromWayDowntown]

Tech fan is all bitter about Harrell not being invited to NY. My point is that he's just not as good as the 3 guys that ended up there. What's worse...being told you're honestly just not good enough, or getting some token invite to a ceremony that you have no business being at?

And if Harrell had put up numbers like he did at a school other than Texas Tech, even with the same system in place, I think the odds are pretty good that he'd have been seen as a viable Heisman candidate.

My only point throughout has been that Leach is right to support his player and that he has to do that to build a program. Harrell wasn't ever likely to win the Heisman -- certainly not absent Tech running the Big XII -- but I think Leach is right in both: (a) supporting his player; and (b) suggesting that this situation might have been resolved differently if Harrell hadn't played at Texas Tech.

Beyond that, while it's true that McCoy and Bradford might have had better seasons than Harrell, it is ridiculous to say that Harrell doesn't have any business being at a ceremony like that one. I'll hazard a guess that, at worst, Graham Harrell received the 5th most votes for that award (and likely finished 4th). Finishing 4th to the 3 players who were invited doesn't exactly leave him with "no business" being honored similarly.


It's just a discussion, and I have a different opinion than they do. Why can't we just talk about it without it being me diminishing Tech?

If you hadn't spent so many posts arguing that Harrell's nothing but a system QB and that Tech isn't a place for those who think about national titles, I'd say that discussion could happen. When, however, your argument is entirely about the relative lack of merit of Harrell's university's football team and is aimed almost exclusively at diminishing Harrell's abilities in putting up the numbers he did, I think you've pretty much made the argument you diminishing Tech.

[Blake]

Tech fan is all bitter about Harrell not being invited to NY. My point is that he's just not as good as the 3 guys that ended up there. What's worse...being told you're honestly just not good enough, or getting some token invite to a ceremony that you have no business being at?

It's just a discussion, and I have a different opinion than they do. Why can't we just talk about it without it being me diminishing Tech?

and your opinion is either biased crap or ignorant crap.

Harrell had just as good a year as any of those guys up there. No, he wasn't going to win, but he at least deserves to sit in the audience with a nice suit on.

[samikeyp]

and your opinion is either biased crap or ignorant crap.

or perhaps, both. :lol

[Blake]

Or miss it 22 times. In one game.


That's 7 three-down possessions where the ball doesn't move one inch...in one game.

gosh..... one bad game against arguably the best team in the country.

I guess Harrell isn't Jesus after all.

[Kermit]

well golly, it appears a monkey could get back there and fling 45 TDs.

It appears that way, doesn't it?

[I Love Me Some Me]

And if Harrell had put up numbers like he did at a school other than Texas Tech, even with the same system in place, I think the odds are pretty good that he'd have been seen as a viable Heisman candidate.

My only point throughout has been that Leach is right to support his player and that he has to do that to build a program. Harrell wasn't ever likely to win the Heisman -- certainly not absent Tech running the Big XII -- but I think Leach is right in both: (a) supporting his player; and (b) suggesting that this situation might have been resolved differently if Harrell hadn't played at Texas Tech.

Beyond that, while it's true that McCoy and Bradford might have had better seasons than Harrell is ridiculous to say that Harrell doesn't have any business being at a ceremony like that one. I'll hazard a guess that, at worst, Graham Harrell received the 5th most votes for that award (and likely finished 4th). Finishing 4th to the 3 players who were invited doesn't exactly leave him with "no business" being honored similarly.

Distant 4th = no business being there. That's just the way they do it. Too bad for Harrell, too bad for Leach, and too bad for Texas Tech, but obviously I'm not the ONLY one who thinks his over-inflated numbers were more a product of tossing the ball around 50 times a game than they were a product of Harrell's Heisman-worthy talent. The voters thought the same thing.

It's funny that it's just so inconceivable to his supporters that there just might exist a legitimate reason for him not to be there. Your gripe is not with me. Your gripe is not even with him not being invited. Your gripe is with the voters who saw through his gaudy numbers, and didn't give him enough votes to get him CLOSE to the top 3.




If you hadn't spent so many posts arguing that Harrell's nothing but a system QB and that Tech isn't a place for those who think about national titles, I'd say that discussion could happen. When, however, your argument is entirely about the relative lack of merit of Harrell's university's football team and is aimed almost exclusively at diminishing Harrell's abilities in putting up the numbers he did, I think you've pretty much made the argument you diminishing Tech.

I'm stating what I've observed, and what my opinion is. If, in your eyes, my opinion diminishes Harrell and Tech, then so be it.

He is a system QB...he's put up the exact same numbers that every other Tech QB before him under Leach has put up. He was only in the Heisman discussion more than his predecessors because of Tech's win over UT. And if he can easily thrust himself into the Heisman discussion with big team win, he can just as easily find himself out of it with and big team loss. And that's exactly what happened when Tech crumbled in Norman. Like it or not, that game legitimately removed Tech from BCS discussions, and legitimately removed Harrell from Heisman discussions.

[Blake]

lol, harrell not invited to heisman ceremony

see, now stretch here is a product of the system.

when you post 50 lol,s a day, the law of averages says you are going to have a lot of d-bag posts.

I get invited to the D-bag trophy ceremony because my name is Blake. Stretch should get an invite because of his work in this forum.

If he doesn't get invited, it'll be an outrage.

[Blake]

It appears that way, doesn't it?

yeah, I can see how it would seem that way to the observer that thinks that you kick a home run right after you grab the jump ball

[fyatuk]

ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT RAT
2001 K. Kingsbury 529 3502 0.0 6.62 25 9 67.8
2002 K. Kingsbury 712 5017 67.3 7.05 45 13 143.7
2003 B.J. Symons 719 5833 65.4 8.11 52 22 151.3
2004 Sonny Cumbie 642 4742 65.6 7.39 32 18 138.5
2005 Cody Hodges 531 4238 66.5 7.98 31 12 148.3
2006 G. Harrell 617 4555 66.8 7.38 38 11 145.5
2007 G. Harrell 713 5705 71.8 8.00 48 14 157.3
2008 G. Harrell 568 4747 71.5 8.36 41 7 163.0

That's what it looks like to me.

I wanted to point that out earlier, but was too lazy to look up stats.

[FromWayDowntown]

Distant 4th = no business being there. That's just the way they do it. Too bad for Harrell, too bad for Leach, and too bad for Texas Tech, but obviously I'm not the ONLY one who thinks his over-inflated numbers were more a product of tossing the ball around 50 times a game than they were a product of Harrell's Heisman-worthy talent. The voters thought the same thing.

It's funny that it's just so inconceivable to his supporters that there just might exist a legitimate reason for him not to be there. Your gripe is not with me. Your gripe is not even with him not being invited. Your gripe is with the voters who saw through his gaudy numbers, and didn't give him enough votes to get him CLOSE to the top 3.

It's not inconceivable to me -- for one -- that he's been excluded; but I do see Leach's point on this one, as well. There's an honor in being invited to the show, even if it's to announce that you finished 4th. I understand the DAC's line-drawing, but it's not as if Harrell is likely to have finished 10th in the voting, either.

Harrell probably won't end up being much of a pro (if he even gets that opportunity) but to say that his season can't be compared favorably to both McCoy's and Bradford's is silly. That's true whether Harrell was invited to the ceremony or not.


I'm stating what I've observed, and what my opinion is. If, in your eyes, my opinion diminishes Harrell and Tech, then so be it.

He is a system QB...he's put up the exact same numbers that every other Tech QB before him under Leach has put up. He was only in the Heisman discussion more than his predecessors because of Tech's win over UT. And if he can easily thrust himself into the Heisman discussion with big team win, he can just as easily find himself out of it with and big team loss. And that's exactly what happened when Tech crumbled in Norman. Like it or not, that game legitimately removed Tech from BCS discussions, and legitimately removed Harrell from Heisman discussions.

I'd say that Harrell is in the Heisman discussion because his team went 11-1 in what was arguably the toughest conference and certainly the toughest division in college football. His team finished the season as one of the 8 best teams (by ranking at least) in college football. It's not like Tech didn't accomplish anything; if all that Harrell did was match his predecessors, then Tech would have reverted to form and gone 8-4 or 9-3, not 11-1. Norman elminated any chance that Harrell would win the Heisman in '08 and eliminated his team from BCS contention, certainly. But the fact that he doesn't win the Heisman doesn't make him a system QB; nor does the fact that his team didn't win the national championship make him unworthy of discussion as one of the elite players in college football in 2008.

Like I say, I understand why Harrell wasn't invited to the ceremony, but I also see Leach's point that excluding Harrell from the ceremony denies him an honor (mention as a Heisman finalist) that he earned this season -- system or not.

[Kermit]

yeah, I can see how it would seem that way to the observer that thinks that you kick a home run right after you grab the jump ball

Blake, your douchiness is shining though and is blinding all of us.

[clambake]

tech is a damn good team that doesn't deserve this ridicule.

save that for the city.

[Blake]

Distant 4th = no business being there. That's just the way they do it. Too bad for Harrell, too bad for Leach, and too bad for Texas Tech, but obviously I'm not the ONLY one who thinks his over-inflated numbers were more a product of tossing the ball around 50 times a game than they were a product of Harrell's Heisman-worthy talent. The voters thought the same thing.

It's funny that it's just so inconceivable to his supporters that there just might exist a legitimate reason for him not to be there. Your gripe is not with me. Your gripe is not even with him not being invited. Your gripe is with the voters who saw through his gaudy numbers, and didn't give him enough votes to get him CLOSE to the top 3.





I'm stating what I've observed, and what my opinion is. If, in your eyes, my opinion diminishes Harrell and Tech, then so be it.

He is a system QB...he's put up the exact same numbers that every other Tech QB before him under Leach has put up. He was only in the Heisman discussion more than his predecessors because of Tech's win over UT. And if he can easily thrust himself into the Heisman discussion with big team win, he can just as easily find himself out of it with and big team loss. And that's exactly what happened when Tech crumbled in Norman. Like it or not, that game legitimately removed Tech from BCS discussions, and legitimately removed Harrell from Heisman discussions.

all wrong.

Harrell was the Heisman leader until the OU game in the eyes of the voters.

newsflash #23,876: Toretta, Weinke, Jason White, etccccccc.....

ALL products of the system. They all got to go not just because of their team records, but because of the logo on their helmets.

[Blake]

Blake, your douchiness is shining though and is blinding all of us.

and your ignorance is setting the tone for future generations of public school dropouts

[Blake]

tech is a damn good team that doesn't deserve this ridicule.

save that for the city.

Exactly!

wait.....huh?

:lol

[Blake]

I wanted to point that out earlier, but was too lazy to look up stats.

thanks for sharing.

mental note: fatyuk does not get a Christmas gift from me

[Kermit]

and your ignorance is setting the tone for future generations of public school dropouts

So what does that say for you, who have yet to disprove the fact that a monkey could play quarterback at Tech and have Harrell's numbers. Maybe the only disagreement between us is the type of monkey. A spidermonkey might average less touchdowns but could definitely pile up the rushing yardage.

[clambake]

i think the hate on tech is a by-product of supressed disgust regarding that shitty fucking town and the people that dwell there.

still, it's better than el paso.

[Blake]

It's not inconceivable to me -- for one -- that he's been excluded; but I do see Leach's point on this one, as well. There's an honor in being invited to the show, even if it's to announce that you finished 4th. I understand the DAC's line-drawing, but it's not as if Harrell is likely to have finished 10th in the voting, either.

Harrell probably won't end up being much of a pro (if he even gets that opportunity) but to say that his season can't be compared favorably to both McCoy's and Bradford's is silly. That's true whether Harrell was invited to the ceremony or not.

I'd say that Harrell is in the Heisman discussion because his team went 11-1 in what was arguably the toughest conference and certainly the toughest division in college football. His team finished the season as one of the 8 best teams (by ranking at least) in college football. It's not like Tech didn't accomplish anything; if all that Harrell did was match his predecessors, then Tech would have reverted to form and gone 8-4 or 9-3, not 11-1. Norman elminated any chance that Harrell would win the Heisman in '08 and eliminated his team from BCS contention, certainly. But the fact that he doesn't win the Heisman doesn't make him a system QB; nor does the fact that his team didn't win the national championship make him unworthy of discussion as one of the elite players in college football in 2008.

Like I say, I understand why Harrell wasn't invited to the ceremony, but I also see Leach's point that excluding Harrell from the ceremony denies him an honor (mention as a Heisman finalist) that he earned this season -- system or not.

Most of us get it. Types get it like Dan Wetzel, Jim Rome and Dan Patrick have all said it's ridiculous that Harrell didn't get invited.

...but we're all wrong and ILMSM is right. yeeeahhh.

[I Love Me Some Me]

all wrong.

Harrell was the Heisman leader until the OU game in the eyes of the voters.

newsflash #23,876: Toretta, Weinke, Jason White, etccccccc.....

ALL products of the system. They all got to go not just because of their team records, but because of the logo on their helmets.

That's exactly what I said. Harrell was a Heisman favorite from the UT game up until the OU game. Then it was over for him, and for good reason.

Toretta (Marshall Faulk), Winke (Drew Brees, LaDainian Tomlinson), Jason White (Larry Fitzgerald)....all guys who should NOT have won the Heisman.

[fyatuk]

thanks for sharing.

mental note: fatyuk does not get a Christmas gift from me

:lol

I hate christmas anyway, and always hope no one gets me a gift.


It really doesn't bother me that that Harrell didn't get invited. It wouldn't bother me if he did, either. He deserves to be in the discussion, but not to win, so whatever.

[Kermit]

Jason White winning the Heisman was an abomination. But hey, B.J. Symons came in 10th that year.

[I Love Me Some Me]

Most of us get it. Types get it like Dan Wetzel, Jim Rome and Dan Patrick have all said it's ridiculous that Harrell didn't get invited.

...but we're all wrong and ILMSM is right. yeeeahhh.

Oh, wait...Jim Rome thinks Harrell should have been invitied? In that case, I change my mind.

WAR PEOPLE WHO DON'T ALL THINK LIKE JIM ROME DOES, AND WAR THE CLONES GETTING HEISMAN VOTES SO GRAHAM HARRELL CAN GET A FREE TRIP TO THE BIG APPLE!!!!

[Blake]

So what does that say for you, who have yet to disprove the fact that a monkey could play quarterback at Tech and have Harrell's numbers. Maybe the only disagreement between us is the type of monkey. A spidermonkey might average less touchdowns but could definitely pile up the rushing yardage.

Dude, you are seriously working your way towards getting an invite to the ceremony.

BJ Symons passed up a Harvard academic scholarship to play at Tech.

Harrell was one of 15 finalists for the Draddy Trophy. Look it up.

Tell me how my ass taste.

[Blake]

It really doesn't bother me that that Harrell didn't get invited. It wouldn't bother me if he did, either. He deserves to be in the discussion, but not to win, so whatever.

perfect answer. that's all you need.

[Blake]

Oh, wait...Jim Rome thinks Harrell should have been invitied? In that case, I change my mind.

WAR PEOPLE WHO DON'T ALL THINK LIKE JIM ROME DOES, AND WAR THE CLONES GETTING HEISMAN VOTES SO GRAHAM HARRELL CAN GET A FREE TRIP TO THE BIG APPLE!!!!

thing is, Rome has no ties to anything Big XII......he is an unbiased observer. You however are a biased horn fan that wants to rip Tech at any given chance.

but if you need more national media types that think that Harrell got jipped, lemme know. I got a list o' plenty.

[Kermit]

Dude, you are seriously working your way towards getting an invite to the ceremony.

BJ Symons passed up a Harvard academic scholarship to play at Tech.

Harrell was one of 15 finalists for the Draddy Trophy. Look it up.

Tell me how my ass taste.

:lmao:lmao:lmao

I didn't know that academics played a role in the Heisman selection. Goddamn Blake. On top of being a douchebag, you are now entering Retardville. Congrats.

[Blake]

Jason White winning the Heisman was an abomination. But hey, B.J. Symons came in 10th that year.

right, because Tech was near the bottom in the country in defense.

Wins losses = heismans. Had Tech been able to hold the other teams to under 80 points a game, BJ would have easily been in NYC.

[Blake]

:lmao:lmao:lmao

I didn't know that academics played a role in the Heisman selection. Goddamn Blake. On top of being a douchebag, you are now entering Retardville. Congrats.

Im talking about you getting invited to the d-bag trophy ceremony, which I think you just moved into a solid 3rd.

so continue to laugh it up, furball. I just disproved your monkey theory.

it's always funny when someone that needs hooked on fonics calls someone else a retard.

[cash459]

McCoy isnt going to win the heisman or national title either...does that mean that he shouldnt have been invited? :rolleyes

[Kermit]

right, because Tech was near the bottom in the country in defense.

Wins losses = heismans. Had Tech been able to hold the other teams to under 80 points a game, BJ would have easily been in NYC.

So, Tech was 11-1 this year because of a good defense and Crabtree. Not through any heroics that Harrell possessed as evidenced by the near identical statistics of his predecessors.

[Kermit]

Im talking about you getting invited to the d-bag trophy ceremony, which I think you just moved into a solid 3rd.

so continue to laugh it up, furball. I just disproved your monkey theory.

it's always funny when someone that needs hooked on fonics calls someone else a retard.

Hooked on fonics :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Fucking hilarious douchebag!! Please, give me another stupid insult. Your (see, I did that for you benefit) so smart and witty.

[Blake]

So, Tech was 11-1 this year because of a good defense and Crabtree. Not through any heroics that Harrell possessed as evidenced by the near identical statistics of his predecessors.

keep on........maybe the light will start to turn on....

If Tech had had a defense the last 9 years, Kingsbury, Symons, Hodges, Cumbie and Harrell would all get Heisman considerations.

Symons had it early on win Tech started 6-1.......He was on the Best Damn Sports Show talking to Roseanne's husband about it.

[Kermit]

McCoy isnt going to win the heisman or national title either...does that mean that he shouldnt have been invited? :rolleyes

He went there to pray with Tebow. They're thanking Jesus as we speak and giving Sam a circumcision.

[Kermit]

keep on........maybe the light will start to turn on....

If Tech had had a defense the last 9 years, Kingsbury, Symons, Hodges, Cumbie and Harrell would all get Heisman considerations.

Symons had it early on win Tech started 6-1.......He was on the Best Damn Sports Show talking to Roseanne's husband about it.

:lmao:lmao:lmao

So, it's the system. I'm trying to help you out here. You're almost there....

[Blake]

Hooked on fonics :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Fucking hilarious douchebag!! Please, give me another stupid insult. Your (see, I did that for you benefit) so smart and witty.

great. a stretch clone.

done.

[cash459]

He went there to pray with Tebow. They're thanking Jesus as we speak and giving Sam a circumcision.

probably :lol theyre going on a crusade together in the summer i hear......... or like others think, it was just b/c of his ability & absolutely notthing to do with the fact that he plays in Austin.

[stretch]

I get invited to the D-bag trophy ceremony because my name is Blake.

no, you got invited for 1. being named blake 2. being a fuckin tech fan


Stretch should get an invite because of his work in this forum.

what work? making douchey tech fans like you blow their chodes over the fact that they are inferior in each and every way to UT fans, much like their school?

[cash459]

what work? making douchey tech fans like you blow their chodes over the fact that they are inferior in each and every way to UT fans, much like their school?

:lmao :lmao





:rolleyes

[Blake]

no, you got invited for 1. being named blake 2. being a fuckin tech fan



what work? making douchey tech fans like you blow their chodes over the fact that they are inferior in each and every way to UT fans, much like their school?

can I use this post as part of your highlight reel when they announce your name?

[stretch]

:lmao :lmao





:rolleyes

UT fans here have made insecure tech fans chodes implode so many time its not even funny.

UT > Tech

lol, tech

[cash459]

UT fans here have made insecure tech fans chodes implode so many time its not even funny.

UT > Tech

lol, tech

39 > 33... :toast

LOL ut fans still obsessed with Tech after insisting that they are "nothing" :lol

lol, ut fans.......

LOL even MORE at ut fans who never went to ut

[cash459]

I actually think the irony is the need for some Orangebloods to seek out every opportunity to diminish Texas Tech and those who represent it. You'd think that something so insignificant would warrant no attention at all. I think the insistence of some Longhorn backers in trying to put down Texas Tech only serves to demonstrate that Tech is significant enough to be a concern.

After all, you don't hear that kind of chatter about Baylor. . . .

:toast :toast :toast

[cash459]

I actually think the irony is the need for some Orangebloods to seek out every opportunity to diminish Texas Tech and those who represent it. You'd think that something so insignificant would warrant no attention at all. I think the insistence of some Longhorn backers in trying to put down Texas Tech only serves to demonstrate that Tech is significant enough to be a concern.

After all, you don't hear that kind of chatter about Baylor. . . .

:king :king :king

[word]

Fuck Leach. This is what he gets for voting OU and Tech ahead of Texas. Maybe he should think and take Visor's dick out of his ass before he opens his mouth about biases and politics. What a fucking hypocritical douche.

Leach is not a voter in the coaches poll, or any other poll.

[word]

Jizz


Fuck UT and everything Austin stands for...

This is hilarious. 'Everything Austin stands for...' :lmao

[j-6]

Leach is not a voter in the coaches poll, or any other poll.

Wrong. Leach votes in the coaches poll.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2008-12-08-final-coaches-ballots_N.htm

[Kermit]

Wrong. Leach votes in the coaches poll.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2008-12-08-final-coaches-ballots_N.htm

:lmao:lmao:lmao

Google would've helped.

[word]

Wrong. Leach votes in the coaches poll.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2008-12-08-final-coaches-ballots_N.htm

Wierd. Not two weeks ago I went to the BCS website and it listed the coaches poll voters and he wasn't on it. Swear to god. There was much argument about this on the ESPN CFB board. At that time, he was not listed. Swear to god.

He voted Tech #2. Hell, if you're gonna go that far off the reservation, why not #1 ? Of course, he had to vote for his buddy STUUPZ...

[word]

I see Bob STOOPZ voted OU 3rd, behind Texas and Florida. How sweet !!!

[J.T.]

Actually, it's Stoops who gave up his vote in the coaches' poll. Leach and Brown have votes, but not Stoops.

[j-6]

Wierd. Not two weeks ago I went to the BCS website and it listed the coaches poll voters and he wasn't on it. Swear to god. There was much argument about this on the ESPN CFB board. At that time, he was not listed. Swear to god.

He voted Tech #2. Hell, if you're gonna go that far off the reservation, why not #1 ? Of course, he had to vote for his buddy STUUPZ...

The list changes from year to year, because Stoops didn't vote Texas #1 in the 2005 poll and he doesn't have a vote this season.

[word]

Actually, it's Stoops who gave up his vote in the coaches' poll. Leach and Brown have votes, but not Stoops.

I can't read for shit today. Must have drank too much last night. I'm gonna have to call it a day here and start over tomorrow.

[word]

The list changes from year to year, because Stoops didn't vote Texas #1 in the 2005 poll and he doesn't have a vote this season.

Really ? Who decides that ?

[j-6]

Really ? Who decides that ?

The AFCA has a convention a couple of weeks after the title game and they nominate a board of coaches - the voters.