Should the Lakers start Lamar Odom?

[TheMadHatter]

Yes the offense will likely suffer, but do the Lakers have any other options at this point but to at least try it out?

Defensively a LOT of holes would get plugged up right away. Odom may not be the quickest SF but he is definitely the tallest and longest. He could play off his man quite a bit and force them to make the outside shot. I don't imagine rebounding would ever be an issue either.

[RedsLakers24]

Phil tried Puke Walton Yesterday so he might try Odom but its not our SF that are getting burn its the our PG, Fisher is showing his age, and Farmar does not know the meaning of Defense, his defense is even worst than Nash

[IronMexican]

Trade him. That's you're answer.

[lil_penny]

no, i think they need him to step up and be more of a leader on the second unit i think the hardest working one on there is Ariza right now. odom needs to step it up.. him comming off the bench makes a hard time for other benches to handle and can help gain momemtum over other 2nd units. plus the first unit can spread the floor with him not on it.

[Lakers_55]

I would consider this: Bench Fisher and give Farmar the minutes. Derek will be ok with this, he yielded to Payton in 03/04. This way, Farmar is groomed along with the first unit and Fisher helps anchor the second along with Odom.

[lil_penny]

the farmar and fisher switch would work great imo fisher can make people around him better(2nd unit), farmar doesnt need to, but can still play with the first unit fine.

[Allanon]

Point guard defense is a problem, and it really shows when it's a scoring point guard rather than a pass-first point guard. I think this is the reason why Sun Yue isn't with the D-Fenders. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sun with some burn soon if this keeps up.

As for Odom, he played well last night despite the mediocre point output. Putting him back in as a starter will work as he's a good help defender...something that Radman is not. But I think his role leading the bench mob is more vital.

[Medvedenko]

We're 18-3........

[z0sa]

I mean, the only way they could not have traded for Odom yet is if they are planning on tanking the season.

/allanon

[Allanon]

I mean, the only way they could not have traded for Odom yet is if they are planning on tanking the season.

/allanon

I don't think Bonner is the answer to the Center dilemna in San Antonio. I think it will take until February until that is really shown.

Some Laker fans under value the impact of Odom and think Shawn Marion is a better deal.

[Kobe™]

Explain his value, other then being a security plan in case one of the big fellas go down

[Allanon]

Explain his value, other then being a security plan in case one of the big fellas go down

His unselfishness leads to plays that motivate the team. Odom is by far the best passer on the team. His passes are extremely accurate.

Even on that play where he threw the ball to Sasha on the bench, it hit Sasha right in the hands without Sasha even having to move his feet or his hands.

Defense, hustle and timely runs. Odom makes other players better.

It's easy to overlook Odom because he doesn't score much, but he impacts the game moreso than anybody other than Kobe.

Why else do you think Odom is ALWAYS in the game during crunch-time? Philip's not stupid, he knows Odom's impact, that is why Philip always puts Odom in during crunch-time.

Anytime the Lakers go on a run, you can be assured Odom is on the court.

[TheMadHatter]

His unselfishness leads to plays that motivate the team. Odom is by far the best passer on the team. His passes are extremely accurate.

Even on that play where he threw the ball to Sasha on the bench, it hit Sasha right in the hands without Sasha even having to move his feet or his hands.

Defense, hustle and timely runs. Odom makes other players better.

It's easy to overlook Odom because he doesn't score much, but he impacts the game moreso than anybody other than Kobe.

Why else do you think Odom is ALWAYS in the game during crunch-time? Philip's not stupid, he knows Odom's impact, that is why Philip always puts Odom in during crunch-time.

Anytime the Lakers go on a run, you can be assured Odom is on the court.

God damn are you high?

No team can win a championship with LO playing significant minutes.

[Allanon]

God damn are you high?

No team can win a championship with LO playing significant minutes.

I'm not as crazy as you think. Odom makes the other players better at the expense of his own stats.

I just saw an interesting stat on another site, I had no idea I was that much on the money:



2008/2009 Season Lakers +/-

Playr +/- PerMin Minutes
Kobe 195 0.27 715:00:00
Odom 184 0.34 537:41:00
Fish 158 0.27 579:31:00
PauG 150 0.20 732:28:00
Drew 143 0.23 616:09:00
Trev 128 0.25 505:09:00
Vlad 108 0.25 429:58:00
Farm 74 0.17 425:35:00
Sash 43 0.14 311:37:00

[z0sa]

I don't think Bonner is the answer to the Center dilemna in San Antonio. I think it will take until February until that is really shown.

Some Laker fans under value the impact of Odom and think Shawn Marion is a better deal.

I'm just saying it in the same sense you did. We have 3 all stars, the best PF of all time, a team that challenged your very Lakers last WCF, and you act like because we don't have athletic big men we should tank the whole season.

I mean seriously, its the same thing, difference being injuries to the spurs early on (Spurs started 17-3 last season so you can't rule out our positions would be much closer). You need better defensive PG (and overall D) or a true 3rd option (Bynum doesnt count and Odom isn't cutting it).

Your only choice? Tank.

[Allanon]

I'm just saying it in the same sense you did. We have 3 all stars, the best PF of all time, a team that challenged your very Lakers last WCF, and you act like because we don't have athletic big men we should tank the whole season.

Only if they meet the Lakers in the first round. No disrespect to your Spurs but your lack of quality big men pretty much assures a first round exit. Duncan is 6'11, the rest of the guys are 6'10 or less. While the Lakers have four 7 footers, and two 6'10 guys. The size and talent disadvantage is too much. I would say even the 3rd string Center Chris Mihm is better than Bonner/KT/Oberto.

I agree you have 3 All-Star players, one of whom is the best PF of all time. However, after that, the talent gap is significant.

You'd be better off getting a lotto pick.

But if you can avoid the first round matchup with the Lakers, I think you should go for it.

[z0sa]

Only if they meet the Lakers in the first round. No disrespect to your Spurs but your lack of quality big men pretty much assures a first round exit. Duncan is 6'11, the rest of the guys are 6'10 or less. While the Lakers have four 7 footers, and two 6'10 guys. The size and talent disadvantage is too much. I would say even the 3rd string Center Chris Mihm is better than Bonner/KT/Oberto.

I agree you have 3 All-Star players, one of whom is the best PF of all time. However, after that, the talent gap is significant.

You'd be better off getting a lotto pick.

But if you can avoid the first round matchup with the Lakers, I think you should go for it.

I want a first round matchup. It doesn't scare me oncesoever.

That said, Spurs may still attain the number 1 seed. Theres 60+ games left, and you'd be foolish to write them off with a 4 or 5 game lead.

Also, Mihm better than Bonner? KT? Oberto? he's younger, that's it. KT especially is a far superior player, and Bonner is about the same age as him and better in most facets of the game.

[LakeShow]

I want a first round matchup. It doesn't scare me oncesoever.

Be careful what you wish for. :lol see below

[nhan]

Only if they meet the Lakers in the first round. No disrespect to your Spurs but your lack of quality big men pretty much assures a first round exit. Duncan is 6'11, the rest of the guys are 6'10 or less. While the Lakers have four 7 footers, and two 6'10 guys. The size and talent disadvantage is too much. I would say even the 3rd string Center Chris Mihm is better than Bonner/KT/Oberto.

I agree you have 3 All-Star players, one of whom is the best PF of all time. However, after that, the talent gap is significant.

You'd be better off getting a lotto pick.

But if you can avoid the first round matchup with the Lakers, I think you should go for it.

Haha...you are the most bias mothafucka on the planet! LOL

[Allanon]

Haha...you are the most bias mothafucka on the planet! LOL

It's easy to be biased when the Lakers are 18-3. What's your bias you little VIetnamese bitch?

[Allanon]

Also, Mihm better than Bonner? KT? Oberto? he's younger, that's it. KT especially is a far superior player, and Bonner is about the same age as him and better in most facets of the game.

Mihm was the starting Center a few years ago and pretty good. Oberto & KT were better in their prime years but right now Mihm is better.

Bonner right now is playing excellent and better than Mihm but I don't think he can keep it up.

Talent and size, I think Mihm is better. I think if Chris Mihm was on the Spurs right now, he would be the starting Center due to size. He's not as good offensively as Bonner but he's the better defender (not a great defender but decent).

[Spur-Addict]

We're 18-3........

:lol Seriously though, 18 and 3 and slight panic begins. Maybe it's b/c the Laker cock sucking has simmered down just A LITTLE bit, oh nooeeess, lets get nervous and tinker with concepts.



God damn are you high?

No team can win a championship with LO playing significant minutes.

It just keeps getting worse for Odom. :lol


I want a first round matchup. It doesn't scare me oncesoever.

That said, Spurs may still attain the number 1 seed. Theres 60+ games left, and you'd be foolish to write them off with a 4 or 5 game lead.



I may be inclined to think the earlier the better as well. One concern that arises is from last year playing early extensive tough matchups against teams like N.O. and PHX. In result we gassed out early and definetly could've gave a better overall performance.

[nhan]

It's easy to be biased when the Lakers are 18-3. What's your bias you little VIetnamese bitch?

I'm not Vietnamese, lol. Seriously though, you act like this Laker team is the best in history. And you think Bryant, Gasol, Bynum, and Odom are all Top 50 players. Chris Mihm being better than every big cept Duncan? Dude, stfu.

[silk]

Mihm was the starting Center a few years ago and pretty good. Oberto & KT were better in their prime years but right now Mihm is better.

Bonner right now is playing excellent and better than Mihm but I don't think he can keep it up.

Talent and size, I think Mihm is better. I think if Chris Mihm was on the Spurs right now, he would be the starting Center due to size. He's not as good offensively as Bonner but he's the better defender (not a great defender but decent).

You make some decent point, but I think bonner strak of good gams is not a fluke, and more than that, he can prove to be highly problematic for your defense, spreading the court, and your bigs, away from the basket

like you said, we'll see in february, but remember evaluating spurs only in talent players is not so efficient, we rarely have the most talented teams on the league even in our championship years, team play directed by pop and duncan is the main force

Meanwhile, I still se boston bein better, more balanced than you guys for the moment

[Allanon]

Chris Mihm being better than every big cept Duncan?

Bonner I can understand but you're defending Oberto and KT? Hahah, dumb little Viet bitch, get back on the boat.



Seriously though, you act like this Laker team is the best in history. And you think Bryant, Gasol, Bynum, and Odom are all Top 50 players.

They're 18-3, best Laker start in decades. How good is your team?

[z0sa]

Bonner I can understand but you're defending Oberto and KT? Hahah, dumb little asian bitch, get back on the boat.

Oberto and KT are both > Mihm.




They're 18-3, best Laker start in decades. How good is your team?

Spurs started 17-3 last season jackass.

[Allanon]

Oberto and KT are both > Mihm.



Spurs started 17-3 last season jackass.

Last season or this season asshole?

[z0sa]

Spurs started 17-3 last season jackass.


Last season or this season asshole?

And I think its apparent, that even Oberto's unathletic weak shit is better than Mihm's nonexistence for some 6-7 seasons now.

Remember when Kareem was working with Mihm? :lmao

[Allanon]

And I think its apparent, that even Oberto's unathletic weak shit is better than Mihm's nonexistence for some 6-7 seasons now.

Remember when Kareem was working with Mihm? :lmao

Oberto was decent before, he sucks right now. Mihm right now is decent.

Fabulous Fabricio's big 3 points and 3 rebounds in 18 minutes per game? :lol

[IronMexican]

There really isn't much to complain about for LA, honstly. And Allanon, you know better than to feed the trolls. 18-3, I would take that any year. My only problem with the team is having in Odom late in the 4th. And my othe rproblem is that 710 ESPN is gonna take over 570 KLAC's broadcast! WTF! I hate 710!!!

[z0sa]

Oberto was decent before, he sucks right now. Mihm right now is decent.

3 points and 3 rebounds in 18 minutes per game? :lol

And he's STILL better than Mihm :lol

[Allanon]

And he's STILL better than Mihm :lol

Nope.

Chris Mihm is 2.6 points, 1.3 rebounds even in 5 minutes. :lol

[z0sa]

Shouldn't you be arranging that "Tank the Season" thread?

[Allanon]

Shouldn't you be arranging that "Tank the Season" thread?

Nah, the Lakers are 18-3, no need to tank the season yet.

[z0sa]

Nah, the Lakers are 18-3, no need to tank the season yet.

Oh no. Your needs for better team defense and a better PG/3rd scoring option are too great.

It's Tank:30 in LakerLand.

[Allanon]

Oh no. Your needs for better team defense and a better PG/3rd scoring option are too great.

It's Tank:30 in LakerLand.

Oh no, you have me confused me with the Laker fans who are worried.

I'm not worried at all about better team defense and PG/3rd scoring options. The team's only lost 3 games in 1/4 of the season...that's good enough for me.

[z0sa]

Oh no, you have me confused me with the Laker fans who are worried.

I'm not worried at all about better team defense and PG/3rd scoring options.

Just like I don't worry if we get another big man. But it didn't stop you from trolling with your tank the season comments over in the Spurs forum.

[Allanon]

Just like I don't worry if we get another big man. But it didn't stop you from trolling with your tank the season comments over in the Spurs forum.

That's fine, it's your opinion and I respect that.

It's my opinion that the Spurs don't stand a chance against the Lakers in the first round with the current big men.

I never disputed your belief in your team.

[z0sa]

Even if it is fallacy to write off a team that, had it been as rested and healthy as yours was, would have taken at least 3 of the first 5 games in that series.

[Allanon]

Even if it is fallacy to write off a team that, had it been as rested and healthy as yours was, would have taken at least 3 of the first 5 games in that series.

Oberto and KT were very solid last year.

If they weren't so terribly bad this year, I would not be this down on the Spurs. I mean c'mon, Oberto with 3 pts, 3 rebounds? He was NEVER this bad. KT with 3 points, 3 rebounds in 13 minutes?

The Spurs need 1 other guy besides Duncan. He doesn't have to be great, just solid. Bonner is good right now but I don't know if he can keep it going. And I don't know if he is good enough to guard Pau/Bynum. And if Duncan or Bonner get in foul trouble, it will be hard to find somebody off the bench.

If Bonner goes back to his old ways, it will be very difficult for the Spurs to beat a home seeded Laker team in 7 games.

[DrHouse]

If Odom keeps this level of play up he will be traded by the All-Star break. His giant expiring contract is something we don't want waste away.

I've been a staunch proponent of bringing in some guys who can help shore up our perimeter defense. I'd love to do a trade with CHI for Hinrich and Nocioni. Hinrich is easily one of the better defensive PG's in the league and he's big enough to guard a lot of SG's too. His shot is respectable, he passes pretty well, just a very solid and consistent player for the most part that would thrive alongside Kobe and in the triangle offense. Nocioni would bring some needed toughness to the team, he's just a downright dirty player that can deliver the hard fouls when needed. And he's a legitimate offensive threat that can't be left open.

I wouldn't describe either Hinrich or Nocioni as mentally weak players, they are just in the wrong system. Odom would probably do much better alongside Rose in their uptempo offense, and even if he doesn't work out he is expiring so CHI takes little risk.

[Allanon]

If Odom keeps this level of play up he will be traded by the All-Star break. His giant expiring contract is something we don't want waste away.

Lamar makes the Lakers better (second only to Kobe Bean Bryant). He's also one of the Lakers best and versatile defenders.

He's a real bargain at $11 million.

Why would they trade him? With his impact on the Lakers, I think the Lakers will re-sign him 8-$10 million a year for 5 years.



2008/2009 Season Lakers +/-

Playr +/- PerMin Minutes
Kobe 195 0.27 715:00:00
Odom 184 0.34 537:41:00
Fish 158 0.27 579:31:00
PauG 150 0.20 732:28:00
Drew 143 0.23 616:09:00
Trev 128 0.25 505:09:00
Vlad 108 0.25 429:58:00
Farm 74 0.17 425:35:00
Sash 43 0.14 311:37:00

[DrHouse]

+/- is the most overrated and useless stat when talking about an individual player's performance. According to your precious stat Fisher is the 3rd best player on our team.

[Allanon]

+/- is the most overrated and useless stat when talking about an individual player's performance. According to your precious stat Fisher is the 3rd best player on our team.

It's not just a scoring/rebounding game. There are the intagibles like leadership, taking charges, playing defense.

+/- is the best way to measure these intangibles into a lump sum of a player's impact on the floor.

Fish is extremely important to the Lakers as he plays the point guard spot.

This is why the NBA finally decided to make +/- an official stat, it's quite accurate as long as you take it as a summary of a player's season, not his +/- in one game.

This is why Odom is always in the game late in the 4th quarter. This is why Phil puts Fish into the game when he needs a last shot or a leader on the floor.

Look at all the good players in the league, they'll all have great +/-. Look at the bad players in the league and you'll see a bad +/-. It's no coincidence.

[LakeShow]

Lamar makes the Lakers better (second only to Kobe Bean Bryant). He's also one of the Lakers best and versatile defenders.

He's a real bargain at $11 million.

Why would they trade him? With his impact on the Lakers, I think the Lakers will re-sign him 8-$10 million a year for 5 years.



2008/2009 Season Lakers +/-

Playr +/- PerMin Minutes
Kobe 195 0.27 715:00:00
Odom 184 0.34 537:41:00
Fish 158 0.27 579:31:00
PauG 150 0.20 732:28:00
Drew 143 0.23 616:09:00
Trev 128 0.25 505:09:00
Vlad 108 0.25 429:58:00
Farm 74 0.17 425:35:00
Sash 43 0.14 311:37:00


It's a good thing the Lakers value Lamar more than the fans, otherwise they would have traded him a long time ago. Lamar is too versatile, it is no way we get a player of his talent in a trade. He can play 4 positions and he's a 6'11 player that can handle the pill and set up the offense.

If they did consider trading him, it would have to be for another BIG, not a guard or SF. That does nothing for this team.

[DrHouse]

A 2-way SF that can defend the perimeter and hit the open 3 would do wonders for this team. Add in a 2-way PG and we would be unstoppable.

That's what Hinrich and Nocioini would bring to this team. Don't think for a second the FO wouldn't turn that down if they could do it.

[Allanon]

If they did consider trading him, it would have to be for another BIG, not a guard or SF. That does nothing for this team.

This is a very good point.

The SF position is pretty well covered. A better backup PG would be good but not at the expense of Odom.

But if you think about it, if the Lakers were to trade Odom, who would be the Backup Center? The Backup Power Forward? Name them.

Having Odom come off the bench to spot Bynum/Gasol is a real luxury. There is no drop-off when Odom comes in, in fact, by the +/- you can see he ups the production.

Josh Powell, Chris Mihm are decent but they're nowhere near the caliber of Lamar.

If you're comfortable with trading Lamar for a SF or PG, then you should get comfortable with seeing Josh Powell or Chris Mihm as the 6th man.

[DrHouse]

This is a very good point.

The SF position is pretty well covered. A better backup PG would be good but not at the expense of Odom.

But if you think about it, if the Lakers were to trade Odom, who would be the Backup Center? The Backup Power Forward? Name them.

Having Odom come off the bench to spot Bynum/Gasol is a real luxury. There is no drop-off when Odom comes in, in fact, by the +/- you can see he ups the production.

Josh Powell, Chris Mihm are decent but they're nowhere near the caliber of Lamar.

If you're comfortable with trading Lamar for a SF or PG, then you should get comfortable with seeing Josh Powell or Chris Mihm as the 6th man.

This is true, but in the playoffs your backup PF's aren't playing huge minutes anyways. I'd rather have a strong starting 5.

[LakeShow]

The Lakers are the best team in the west, why disrupt that? I'm looking at how we match up against the Celtics and Cavs. Let's be real, against the Celtics we have a glaring weakness. That weakness is matching up with Perkins. He is too strong for Lamar and Gasol. Another SF and Guard wont help us there at all. We have to try and counter that and the only thing that the lakers have available is to try and use Odom to give us an advantage in the paint. Take away Odom and we're toast! A guard for one of our SF's should be the only option not for Lamar. Too bad they couldn't have got Daniels or somebody like that. Another SF is something we definitely do not need. We can get what we want from the combination that we have now.