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View Full Version : The Spurs could have gotten rid of Malik AND Rasho



Kori Ellis
02-25-2005, 01:16 AM
Spurs shed Rose, gain size: Forward, a fan favorite, goes to Knicks for Mohammed
Web Posted: 02/25/2005 12:00 AM CST

Johnny Ludden
Express-News Staff Writer

In the end, after almost three years of rumors and speculation, after he nearly was sent to New York at last season's trade deadline, Malik Rose still was surprised.

Rose practiced with the Spurs on Thursday morning at the team's facility, then stayed to work out alone. He was joking around in the players' lounge and training room when someone said coach Gregg Popovich wanted to see him.

Only then did Rose sense something had happened. He met Popovich in his office. His coach of eight seasons told him he was being traded to the Knicks for center Nazr Mohammed.

"I was very shocked," Rose said late Thursday, about 90 minutes before he was to board a charter flight to New York. "The worst I've ever felt was when I lost my brother. But this is the worst I've felt since then. It just hurts."

The Spurs also sent New York a pair of first-round picks: the one Phoenix owed them this season as well as their own in the 2006 draft. In addition to Mohammed, they received point guard Jamison Brewer, who will be waived.

Though the 6-foot-10 Mohammed gives the Spurs the backup center they had been seeking, it also helps them shed more than $21 million in future payroll. Mohammed has only one year worth $5.5 million remaining on his contract after this season compared to the four years and $27.3 million Rose has left on his deal.

The Spurs agreed to pay the 10 percent trade kicker in Rose's contract for the Knicks. The trade bonus is worth almost $3million and must be paid within 30 days.

Rose signed his seven-year, $42million contract in the summer of 2002. Though the deal was considered market value at the time, the team since has handed longterm contracts to Tim Duncan ($120 million), Tony Parker ($66 million), Manu Ginobili ($52 million) and Rasho Nesterovic ($42 million). The flexibility the Spurs gain from Thursday's trade also could help them this summer if they try to sign one of their former draft picks, Argentine forward Luis Scola.

"We've been together a long time," Popovich said of Rose. "He doesn't want to go, and were it not for the business involved, we wouldn't want him to go."

To open a roster spot to complete the deal, the Spurs waived Romain Sato and placed Mike Wilks on the injured list. The team will evaluate its needs but will consider re-signing Sato if he clears waivers.

Mohammed, 27, is three inches taller than Rose, which should help the Spurs better measure up with Shaquille O'Neal and Miami if the teams meet in the NBA Finals. He had started all 54 games for the Knicks this season, averaging 10.9 points, 8.1 rebounds and .98 blocks in 28.1 minutes.

The Spurs had pursued Mohammed because of his size and potential. New York officials initially did not want to let him go unless they received Nesterovic in return. The Spurs were hesitant about parting with their starting center for Mohammed even in a package that would have included Rose and Knicks center Kurt Thomas.

On Wednesday night, Knicks officials said they didn't have any interest in doing a Rose-Mohammed deal. They changed their mind Thursday morning, perhaps because they also had agreed to acquire Houston forward Maurice Taylor.

The trade was not made official until almost five hours after Thursday's 2 p.m. deadline. Mohammed will fly to San Antonio today but is not expected to play Saturday against Memphis, Popovich said.

"If Nazr buys into the system, he might be able to really help us," Spurs general manager R.C. Buford said. "What's also exciting is that he's improved every year of his career."

Buford admitted Mohammed's acquisition comes "at a huge expense."

"Malik is somebody we're all close to," Buford said, "and he's been a big part of our fiber and chemistry."

In his eight seasons with the Spurs, Rose played in 509 games, averaging 7.4 points and 4.7 rebounds. David Robinson, George Gervin, Sean Elliott, Avery Johnson, Tim Duncan and Johnny Moore — who all already or will have their jersey numbers retired — are the only players to have appeared in more games with the franchise.

Rose signed with the Spurs before the 1997-98 season, the same season Duncan joined the team. The two became good friends, and Rose hired Lon Babby as his agent on Duncan's recommendation. Dallas' Michael Finley and Shawn Bradley are the only current teammates with a longer tenure together.

Though Duncan and several teammates called Thursday, Rose did not speak with them because "I'm just too upset right now."

Rose was a significant piece of the Spurs' 1999 and 2003 championship teams, though his minutes declined the past two seasons with the addition of Robert Horry. His sense of humor fit well in the locker room, and his work ethic and community involvement also made him a favorite of the fans.

"I'm so grateful for everything he's done for us, on and off the court," Popovich said. "But our responsibility is to the team as a whole, not one individual."

Rose and Popovich bickered in recent years — "They were like an old married couple," said one team source — but they continued to share respect for each other. Even in recent weeks, when Rose again was frustrated by his inconsistent role, he said he hoped to remain with the team.

"I'm upset, but I'm not angry," Rose said, his voice cracking. "Pop did what he had to do for the organization, and I'll always understand that.

"I didn't always agree with the things he did and he didn't always agree with the things I did, but we loved each other. There are so many things he taught me that I've adopted into my lifestyle."

The Spurs were minutes away from finalizing a deal last season that would have sent Rose to the Knicks for Thomas before New York president Steve Mills quashed the deal after learning how much money Rose had left on his contract. Even after that, Rose was hopeful he would survive another trade deadline.

The trade moves Rose closer to his native Philadelphia, but in the past two years most of his family — including his mother and two brothers — had moved to San Antonio. Rose also was in the process of opening his second restaurant in town.

Rose thinks his businesses will remain here. As will his family.

"They're Texans now," he said. "Not only has everybody here been so nice to me, they've been great to my family.

"What hurts so much is I had a place I called home. Now it's no more."

timvp
02-25-2005, 01:18 AM
Kurt Thomas and Nazr Mohammed for Malik Rose and Rasho Nesterovic? That sounds like a winner right there.

timvp
02-25-2005, 01:20 AM
"We've been together a long time," Popovich said of Rose. "He doesn't want to go, and were it not for the business involved, we wouldn't want him to go."

So the only reason they made this trade was because of Holt Cat?

If that's true, it's a horrible trade. You don't make your team worse to save a few million.

Holt has a new arena, a championship level team, the media in his back pocket and players who are all better citizens then him and he still wants to trim a payroll that ranks in the bottom third?

Huh?

ChumpDumper
02-25-2005, 01:21 AM
Kurt Thomas and Nazr Mohammed for Malik Rose and Rasho Nesterovic? That sounds like a winner right there.
:lol

Aggie Hoopsfan
02-25-2005, 01:21 AM
Damn, that would have been a REALLY nice deal. Guess we'll have to settle for the nice one we got.

timvp
02-25-2005, 01:22 AM
:lol

Is that a laugh of sadness? You are the biggest Kurt Thomas supporter on this board.

You would have accepted that trade, correct?

ChumpDumper
02-25-2005, 01:22 AM
If that's true, it's a horrible trade. You don't make your team worse to save a few million.If you plan on paying Scola to play the same position....

timvp
02-25-2005, 01:24 AM
Scola is looking for $6M over three years.

That is borderline league minimum.

PM5K
02-25-2005, 01:24 AM
Why isn't he playing Saturday?

ChumpDumper
02-25-2005, 01:26 AM
Is that a laugh of sadness? You are the biggest Kurt Thomas supporter on this board.

You would have accepted that trade, correct?I'm laughing at the thought of your reaction had that trade actually gone through.

I never thought of a 2 for 2 deal. I could see the logic but that's an enormous change for a 1st place team. Thomas' consistency wins me over though.

Aggie Hoopsfan
02-25-2005, 01:27 AM
PM,

Probably has to pass his physical first, including blood tests, etc.

ChumpDumper
02-25-2005, 01:30 AM
Scola is looking for $6M over three years.And if he plays many of Rose's minutes Rose's deal would be an even bigger waste of money. If Malik's deal = any combination of Scola/Brown/Nazr in the future, that's pretty much worth it. I guess if anyone can tell me the total profit the Spurs have made since Holt bought the team, I'll listen to the tractor arguments.

Spurs_rock05
02-25-2005, 01:31 AM
Houston we've got a problem.
Peter Holt is back to his old drunk ways and now we must pay the price with a trade because he wanted to save money.
damn it peter sell a couple more tractors.

MannyIsGod
02-25-2005, 01:32 AM
I hope he fails it so that we get Malik back.

whottt
02-25-2005, 01:36 AM
So what other starting players from suckass lottery teams should we trade franchise cornerstones and multiple #1 picks for to impove our championship contending team?

I personally am bummed out that we didn't try to get Antione Walker...

Spurs_rock05
02-25-2005, 01:37 AM
I hope he fails it so that we get Malik back.

you and me both and with GOD's help we will se Malik back in a spurs uni next season .

Lets just pray now for Malik and hope we get him back

Aggie Hoopsfan
02-25-2005, 01:40 AM
Please don't bring religion into it, God has bigger problems to worry about than role players.

xcoriate
02-25-2005, 01:45 AM
David Robinson, George Gervin, Sean Elliott, Avery Johnson, Tim Duncan and Johnny Moore — who all already or will have their jersey numbers retired

I didn't realise he was a lock fore jersey retirement?? Is this just or mistake or did I miss this.

TNT21
02-25-2005, 01:45 AM
Damn, I feel like I did when they traded away Sean Elliott, like someone punched me in the stomach repeatedly. Hopefully, we will get Malik back someday like we did Sean. You know, maybe he wasn't the best player on the court at any time, but he brought heart and hustle and determination every time he stepped out on the floor. I always knew that when he was out there he was giving it his all. For that I will always admire and continue to follow his career. Best of luck Malik, hopefully we'll see you in a Spurs uniform sometime down the road. Fair winds and following seas!!

T Park
02-25-2005, 01:49 AM
franchise cornerstones

malik rose is a franchise cornerstone?

Good god.

whottt
02-25-2005, 02:02 AM
Malik most definitely was a franchise cornerstone, spiritually, in the community, from the POV of leadership by example, and I am surprised you have such a weak grasp of the team.

Then again...you wanted to tank the season over a sprained ankle, so I shouldn't expect you to be able to notice the positive contributions of a never say die player like Malik.

T Park
02-25-2005, 02:09 AM
He was traded, game is saturday, are all the NBA experts wrong like Charles Barkley and Kenny Smith wrong in saying this is a fantastic trade???


Guess so.


But you had Nazr in one of your dream teams there whottt, so hes here, but, they traded Malik. Whatever, go cry in your cheesesteak.

whottt
02-25-2005, 02:15 AM
He was traded, game is saturday, are all the NBA experts wrong like Charles Barkley and Kenny Smith wrong in saying this is a fantastic trade???

I gurantee you that Barkley and Smith don't spend as much time studying the Spurs as you and I do...

Mainstream journalists rarely have much insight as to the innermost workings of a team. I can understand them missing the subtle contributions of Malik...I can't understand so many Spurfans missing it.



Guess so.


But you had Nazr in one of your dream teams there whottt, so hes here, but, they traded Malik. Whatever, go cry in your cheesesteak.

I never had Nazr in one of my dream teams...W in TF are you talking about TPark?

T Park
02-25-2005, 02:17 AM
lol.

check the dream lineup thread Whottt, you typed it back in january, dont wiggle out now.


BTW, I would guess Charles Barkley or Kenny Smith would have a slight clue about the NBA or the Spurs god Whottt come on.

T Park
02-25-2005, 02:20 AM
Team 77
Steve Francis
Manu Ginobili
Peja Stojakovic
Kenyon Martin
Nazr Mohammed

Bench
Stephon Marbury
Paul Pierce
Vince Carter
Tim Thomas
Jeff Foster


Thats your "Build your own NBA Lineup" Whottt on January 25th.


Nazr your starting center...

So I guess I DO know what Im talkin about.

whottt
02-25-2005, 02:22 AM
Put it this way....

Malik has never been a regular starter...

Yet his career high in points and rebounds is better than Mohammed's and Rasho's...both guys who dwarf him in size...Malik did it in the West...he did it on a team with a lot of good rebounders, on a team that brings the best out in it's opponents...


How in the hell do you think Malik did that? You think he's just luckier than Rasho and Mohammed?


Desire.

And that's something Mohammed and Rasho lack. And it's an essential ingredient towards winning a title. Luckily we still have guys that have desire...but our only back up big that has it is Horry and he's broken.


You think you'll ever see Mohammed or Rasho make it 8 years with a team?

Think again.

Enjoy your flavor of the month.

Mohammed is a very average 6'10 big man...Malik is an exceptional 6'5 big man.

T Park
02-25-2005, 02:23 AM
exceptional no question.

Thats why the Knicks are being called "idiots" for trading or him.


Everyone else are morons but you Malik lovers of course.

whottt
02-25-2005, 02:25 AM
Thats your "Build your own NBA Lineup" Whottt on January 25th.


Nazr your starting center...

So I guess I DO know what Im talkin about.

TPark...I just made that lineup because they were all born in 1977...

I know you have seen me rip Steve Francis to shreds...the fact that I put him as my starting PG should tell you I was just trying to find guys born in 77.

T Park
02-25-2005, 02:25 AM
waffle waffle waffle waffle...........

whottt
02-25-2005, 02:34 AM
LMAO, If Malik had been born in 1977 he would have been starting over Mohammed...

Look at my backup TPark...the pickings were slim.

T Park
02-25-2005, 02:35 AM
Alright.

Guess were throwing in the towel on the season right?? Guess I can sell of my tickets, according to you and others correct.


Might as well stop watching the games.

ChumpDumper
02-25-2005, 02:40 AM
The Spurs were minutes away from finalizing a deal last season that would have sent Rose to the Knicks for Thomas before New York president Steve Mills quashed the deal after learning how much money Rose had left on his contract.Again I ask anyone, what change brought about a willingness to take on Malik's contract AND Mo Taylor's AND Kurt Thomas' extension?

whottt
02-25-2005, 02:41 AM
No, you just need to get with the program on Malik. You are an alright guy TPark...I don't doubt that your heart is in the right place...but you are wrong about Malik's importance to this team. Don't feel too bad though, you've got plenty of company.

T Park
02-25-2005, 02:46 AM
No I dont think Im wrong.

Getting a better player for a guy that is a great guy, big hearted, but overpayed is a good deal.


Dont feel bad though, Your in an extreme minority in the world of basketball.

usckk
02-25-2005, 04:29 AM
Trading Rasho would have been horrible. Where can we find a better center in the offseason? I don't there's anyone at the price that is better. Thank god, the Spurs were adamant in keeping Rasho.

conversekid
02-25-2005, 07:13 AM
Again I ask anyone, what change brought about a willingness to take on Malik's contract AND Mo Taylor's AND Kurt Thomas' extension?

It's called Isaih Thomas.

worst in nba history?

ducks
02-25-2005, 08:52 AM
Though Duncan and several teammates called Thursday, Rose did not speak with them because "I'm just too upset right now."

spurs players are class

genghisrex
02-25-2005, 09:05 AM
On Wednesday night, Knicks officials said they didn't have any interest in doing a Rose-Mohammed deal. They changed their mind Thursday morning, perhaps because they also had agreed to acquire Houston forward Maurice Taylor.LOL. I can just see Thomas thinking, "Now that we have another overpaid undersized PF, let's trade our starting center to get another overpaid undersized PF."

spurster
02-25-2005, 09:31 AM
I thought the coyote was the franchise cornerstone.

RobinsontoDuncan
02-25-2005, 09:58 AM
So what other starting players from suckass lottery teams should we trade franchise cornerstones and multiple #1 picks for to impove our championship contending team?

I personally am bummed out that we didn't try to get Antione Walker...


hell yeah, expiring contract

CosmicCowboy
02-25-2005, 10:01 AM
Mohammed is a very average 6'10 big man...Malik is an exceptional 6'5 big man.

and Mohammed's natural position is center, an area that the Spurs were desperately weak in...and Maliks natural position is as a (small) Power Forward where the Spurs just happen to have the best PF in the league who is a lock to be in the hall of fame...This team is setting up to run the table in the playoffs and when Duncan kicks his minutes up to 40 a game there is just no room for Malik in the rotation...

someone else stated the obvious already...

this wasn't just a Nazr Mohammed for Malik Rose trade....

this was a Malik Rose for Nazr Mohammed/Devin Brown/Luis Scola long term (assuming Mohammed fits our system)...and he has the height/skill set to be a perfect fit...

I really like Malik too but c'mon guys...this was a trade the Spurs HAD to make...

whottt
02-25-2005, 10:13 AM
^^^ I was waiting for the kiss of death to show up.

Thank you Mr.Olowokandi for giving your blessing to our new center.

IcemanCometh
02-25-2005, 10:34 AM
this trade was about 1 thing- money

timvp
02-25-2005, 11:43 AM
LOL. I can just see Thomas thinking, "Now that we have another overpaid undersized PF, let's trade our starting center to get another overpaid undersized PF."


:lmao:lmao:lmao

Yeah, that must have been the line of thinking.

SLOVENIAN 8
02-25-2005, 01:09 PM
New York is very interest in Rasho. And will be always. They have $$$$

Ghost Writer
02-25-2005, 02:28 PM
So Avey Johnson is gonna have his jersey retired?

:lol

Seriously, I feel for Rose based on that article.

But this is a business.

And I have no idea why the Spurs did include Rasho for K. Thomas.

That makes no sense to me.

SpursWoman
02-25-2005, 02:47 PM
Team 77
Steve Francis
Manu Ginobili
Peja Stojakovic
Kenyon Martin
Nazr Mohammed

Bench
Stephon Marbury
Paul Pierce
Vince Carter
Tim Thomas
Jeff Foster





Thats your "Build your own NBA Lineup" Whottt on January 25th.


Nazr your starting center...

So I guess I DO know what Im talkin about.


No, you don't....the object of that thread was to build an NBA team whose players were all born in the same year.

He picked 1977 (hence, Team 77). Mine was 1971. Good Lord, do you think my dream NBA team would be a bunch of old geezers like me?

:lol :lol

wildbill2u
02-25-2005, 03:13 PM
Mohammed is a very average 6'10 big man...Malik is an exceptional 6'5 big man."

I guess we are about to see if the average 6'10" big man is better than an exceptional 6'5" big man in a game where height is at a premium at the center position.

whottt
02-25-2005, 03:15 PM
I guess we are about to see if the average 6'10" big man is better than an exceptional 6'5" big man in a game where height is at a premium at the center position.

Sincerely, Amare Stoudamire, Bill Russell, etc...

Spurs_rock05
02-25-2005, 04:01 PM
Trading Rasho would have been horrible

not not really because we didn't not have him for so long like Malik i felt like we had a stronger bodn with just like with tim tony manu and david.

it all started with robert horry since he came malik got less playing time

Spurs_rock05
02-25-2005, 04:02 PM
Trading Rasho would have been horrible

not not really because we didn't not have him for so long like Malik i felt like we had a stronger bond with just like with tim tony manu and david.

it all started with robert horry since he came malik got less playing time

Slo spurs fan
02-25-2005, 04:35 PM
"The Spurs could have gotten rid of Malik AND Rasho"

But FO was smart enough to keep Rasho in SA.

ducks
05-26-2006, 01:29 PM
they could have gotten rid of rasho but they did not

objective
05-26-2006, 02:11 PM
i pray the Spurs are able to move Rasho, hopefully for a second round pick to a team with cap space.

ploto
05-26-2006, 02:13 PM
Contrary to what people want to believe there were offers for Rasho last summer that did not interest the Spurs either.

ducks
05-26-2006, 02:16 PM
like what

pache100
05-26-2006, 02:16 PM
Contrary to what people want to believe there were offers for Rasho last summer that did not interest the Spurs either.

I don't even have a problem with them keeping Rasho. But, if they keep him, I want to see him play. How come everyone else gets to "play through" their problems, but not Rasho? He was really doing good early on in the season.

MannyIsGod
05-26-2006, 02:17 PM
Contrary to what people want to believe there were offers for Rasho last summer that did not interest the Spurs either.Yeah, they probably involved contracts just as large for players just as bad.

Tariq Abdul Wahad says it all. They want the contract off the books.

spur219
05-26-2006, 02:18 PM
So the deal would of been Rasho and Malik for Nazr and Kurt?

Can someone tell me why the Spurs didn't pull the trigger on this?

ploto
05-26-2006, 02:28 PM
Yeah, they probably involved contracts just as large for players just as bad.

Tariq Abdul Wahad says it all. They want the contract off the books.
The TAW story was blown all out of proportion. Anyone with a brain knows that Dallas would not have traded for Rasho wiith Dampier's contract, in addition to KVH's $15M.

objective
05-26-2006, 03:47 PM
How come everyone else gets to "play through" their problems, but not Rasho?

lol, if anything Rasho gets the longest leash of any Spur. I've never seen him chewed out during breaks like Parker or Ginobili or get talked to like Duncan.

In addition, probably because of how much he gets paid, he gets many opportunities to fail before other big men are given the opportunity to succeed.

Dre_7
05-26-2006, 06:47 PM
So the deal would of been Rasho and Malik for Nazr and Kurt?

Can someone tell me why the Spurs didn't pull the trigger on this?

That would have been SWEET!! Thomas and Nazr! :pctoss

Bruno
05-26-2006, 06:49 PM
Contrary to what people want to believe there were offers for Rasho last summer that did not interest the Spurs either.

What offers ?
It's not that I don't trust you but I'm curious to see what we have turn down.

angel_luv
05-26-2006, 06:52 PM
Keep the Sho! :D

E20
05-26-2006, 06:52 PM
When was this bumped? :lol

MannyIsGod
05-26-2006, 10:07 PM
The TAW story was blown all out of proportion. Anyone with a brain knows that Dallas would not have traded for Rasho wiith Dampier's contract, in addition to KVH's $15M.You miss the point that the Spurs were willing to deal Rasho for virtually nothing. Whether or not Dallas accepted the deal doesn't negate that.