Are we elite?

[SpursDynasty]

Are we among the NBA/West elite now? 14-8....not bad and we've had some impressive wins as of late in Denver and Dallas double-OT thriller. Can we group ourselves with the other elite teams of the league: Boston, Cleveland, and Denver?

[Reck]

We've always been elite.

When was that a question of doubt?

[MarHill]

Are we among the NBA/West elite now? 14-8....not bad and we've had some impressive wins as of late in Denver and Dallas double-OT thriller. Can we group ourselves with the other elite teams of the league: Boston, Cleveland, and Denver?


We have been an elite franchise for the past 5 years.

Not yet for this season!

But the Spurs are getting closer though.

:flag:

[TampaDude]

Elite this season? Not quite yet.

Elite this past decade? Definitely!

[tp2021]

Elite this season? Not quite yet.

Elite this past decade? Definitely!

+1

Once this team is healthy, it has :lobt2: written all over it.

[Juanobili]

most elite

[DROB4EVER]

Not until our inside D gets much better! I hope Ian comes through big or we need to make a deal to get another big, no way we win title letting teams score easy points like they are right now.

[Yorae]

If Bonner evolve into Super Bonner, we are the legit...

[024]

right now the spurs can probably beat the cavs in the playoffs, push boston and the lakers to six or seven games before losing, and beat any other team in the playoffs.

[m33p0]

since you asked, i hear by revoke your Spurs fan for life membership card. you may re-apply again or challenge this ruling in one month's time.

-Spurs loyalty police

[Frenchise player]

Not yet, the Spurs had a relatively easy schedule so far, they haven't played any of the top 3 teams.
Look at the end of january/february schedule: just brutal. They need to get a lot of wins now to prevent any bad losing streak.

[MarHill]

Not until our inside D gets much better! I hope Ian comes through big or we need to make a deal to get another big, no way we win title letting teams score easy points like they are right now.

What big are they going to be able to get?

That's the problem..I have with everybody wanting a big.

There's isn't anyone out there of substance we can get!!!!

:flag:

[024]

What big are they going to be able to get?

That's the problem..I have with everybody wanting a big.

There's isn't anyone out there of substance we can get!!!!

:flag:

jeff foster is the only one i can think of that fits within the price range. i haven't seem him play this season but i remember he's a good defender. not a big shot blocker but can play defense outside the low post as well. cleans up around the rim very well.

[SpursPreacher]

elite as they come.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

i don't know what's funnier, SD even asking if the Spurs are elite or stating that the Nuggets are elite :lol :smokin

[peskypesky]

Absolutely. Only 5 teams in the league have better records than the Spurs right now....and if you factor in that we were missing Manu and Tony for big chunks of the season, I think you have to say Spurs are elite. Does anyone think Boston, Cleveland and LA would have the records they do if they had been missing key players for weeks on end?

[TDMVPDPOY]

yes we are L33T

[Johnny RIngo]

No. Spurs are 5-7 vs .500+ teams.

Lakers are 10-1.
Celtics are 7-1.
Cavs are 5-3.

Like Frenchise player said, we'll have a better idea after they've played against more of the top teams.

[MarHill]

No. Spurs are 5-7 vs .500+ teams.

Lakers are 10-1.
Celtics are 7-1.
Cavs are 5-3.

Like Frenchise player said, we'll have a better idea after they've played against more of the top teams.


Those are meaningless stats.

The Spurs haven't had their whole team for the majority of the early part of the season..while Boston and Cleveland have had their teams intact.

Let see what the Spurs record against +.500 teams going forward now that everyone is back.

[Ghazi]

Denver elite, lol.

[honestfool84]

Absolutely. Only 5 teams in the league have better records than the Spurs right now....and if you factor in that we were missing Manu and Tony for big chunks of the season, I think you have to say Spurs are elite. Does anyone think Boston, Cleveland and LA would have the records they do if they had been missing key players for weeks on end?


celtics would SUCK without pierce and allen.

cleveland would SUCK without wallace and williams.

lakers would SUCK without bynum and gasol.

you can't compare the spurs to those three teams.

[Sean Cagney]

Not yet, the Spurs had a relatively easy schedule so far, they haven't played any of the top 3 teams.
Look at the end of january/february schedule: just brutal. They need to get a lot of wins now to prevent any bad losing streak.

They were also without Gino for a month and Parker for a few weeks, so I would say they have held up well spite the easy schedule!! They needed that schedule to even stay near .500 IMO, but they were above .500 even without a full team so I would say they held serve. They have done really well this year so far, and they will get alot better.

[Capt Bringdown]

Not yet. Even with the addition of Mason, the emergence of Hill and the resurgence of Bonner, we've still the big stiffs Oberto and Thomas, who are IMO simply not good enough.

Yup, I know we've won with the likes of Rasho and Nazr. But that was with a younger big 3, and I don't think Oberto and Thomas are even as good as those guys.
I hope I'm wrong.

[Solid D]

No! That is, unless you look at the past 5 games. The Spurs have a +15.4 ppg differential in the past 5 games, shooting 49% and allowing .442.

They have not been in the same paragraph with Cleveland, Boston and the LA Lakers. Cleveland (19-1 in their past 20 games) and Boston have the best defenses, to be sure, around the .415 Opp. FG% range. Let's not even talk about Cleveland's ppg Differential. Boston and Cleveland are Elite with a capital E. LA is the Elite West team right now.

[LA24]

Are we among the NBA/West elite now?
No, other teams are just missing their shots.

[Yorae]

Elite...oh how i wish we could emerge with another "twin towers" before duncan retires...Screw you splitter.....

[wisnub]

If Bonner evolve into Super Bonner, we are the legit...

:lol

[JamStone]

Depends what your definition of "elite" is. For me, it's still only the Celtics and the Lakers and then everybody else. I wouldn't even put Cleveland in that class yet despite how great they've been playing. ESPN said that in their 11 game win streak, only one team they've faced had a winning record. But, they're definitely in that next tear after Boston and LA.

I admit I had my doubts about the Spurs this season, and they've been playing much, much better as they've gotten healthy. But, I'd still hesitate to put them in the class of the Celtics and the Lakers. Right now, they're probably in the same category as Houston, New Orleans, Orlando, and Dallas. But, they could easily move up if they gain some steam.

And, of course, as a couple have mentioned, there's no doubt about their status over the past decade. But, that's pretty much understood.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I admit I had my doubts about the Spurs this season, and they've been playing much, much better as they've gotten healthy. But, I'd still hesitate to put them in the class of the Celtics and the Lakers. Right now, they're probably in the same category as Houston, New Orleans, Orlando, and Dallas. But, they could easily move up if they gain some steam.

And, of course, as a couple have mentioned, there's no doubt about their status over the past decade. But, that's pretty much understood.

:tu

[mystargtr34]

Celtics
-------
Lakers
Cavs
-------
Spurs
Nuggets
Rockets
Hornets
Utah

As of now i think thats the contending teams. That could and probably will change as the season goes on, but right now i think Boston is a little better than everyone else, and LA and the Cavs still a notch above the others there who all have or have had a combination of injuries and trades.

Blazers
Magic
Suns
Mavs
Pistons

The rest are good teams but to me arent real contenders.

[concken]

Spurs not elite=Mavs elite
:lmao

[lefty]

Are we among the NBA/West elite now? 14-8....not bad and we've had some impressive wins as of late in Denver and Dallas double-OT thriller. Can we group ourselves with the other elite teams of the league: Boston, Cleveland, and Denver?

We are the 2009 Champions

[mrspurs]

If elite means the Lakers or Boston then no we are not. Anyone who believes we are is just a cheerleader cheering on their team. But as for the Cavs, we can beat them. Right now with this Roster. Even thou their Bigs are the reason why they're having so much success right now. Our bigs can still out play them. Our Bigs still dont have a clue compared to the Lakers and C's.

[superbigtime]

Are we among the NBA/West elite now? 14-8....not bad and we've had some impressive wins as of late in Denver and Dallas double-OT thriller. Can we group ourselves with the other elite teams of the league: Boston, Cleveland, and Denver?

Uh...Denver is elite?? Hahahahahahahaha

[superbigtime]

What big are they going to be able to get?

That's the problem..I have with everybody wanting a big.

There's isn't anyone out there of substance we can get!!!!

:flag:

Brad Miller.

[SpurSupremacist]

Depends what your definition of "elite" is. For me, it's still only the Celtics and the Lakers and then everybody else. I wouldn't even put Cleveland in that class yet despite how great they've been playing. ESPN said that in their 11 game win streak, only one team they've faced had a winning record. But, they're definitely in that next tear after Boston and LA.

I admit I had my doubts about the Spurs this season, and they've been playing much, much better as they've gotten healthy. But, I'd still hesitate to put them in the class of the Celtics and the Lakers. Right now, they're probably in the same category as Houston, New Orleans, Orlando, and Dallas. But, they could easily move up if they gain some steam.

And, of course, as a couple have mentioned, there's no doubt about their status over the past decade. But, that's pretty much understood.

If LeBron gets any help at all, they're in the finals last year. This year, he has Mo Williams to take a little of the scoring/creating burden off of him. It's over for the East. Mark it down.

[mrspurs]

If LeBron gets any help at all, they're in the finals last year. This year, he has Mo Williams to take a little of the scoring/creating burden off of him. It's over for the East. Mark it down.

The Celtics own the East. Not Lebron or Mo is gonna do anything to stop the Celtics. They Marked it down last season. They Marked it down this season. And they're putting alot of Marks on the Easts opponents behinds again.

[HarlemHeat37]

JamStone- The Cavs have played a tougher schedule than the Lakers so far, based on the records they've played..also, the Lakers played the Mavs twice without Howard, and Phoenix twice without key starters..

the Celtics are on their own level..followed by the Cavs and Lakers on the next level..

a healthy Spurs team is there with New Orleans, Utah and maybe Denver..we're easily better than anybody else..

stats are irrelevant right now, since we haven't been healthy for most of the year..this would be the equivalent of Boston losing Pierce and Allen, LA losing Gasol and Bynum, NO losing West and Chandler..it would obviously make a huge difference..

[rascal]

What big are they going to be able to get?

That's the problem..I have with everybody wanting a big.

There's isn't anyone out there of substance we can get!!!!

:flag:


Camby

[lefty]

We are the 2009 champions

[concken]

Uh...Denver is elite?? Hahahahahahahaha

:lmao

[igruex]

Is not just a matter of being elite or not. We have Bruce, Mike, Tim, Manu, Tony.. a lot of players (together) that "been there done that". Except for the C's and the Lakers there's no other team who can claim something like that. Therefore, right now, there are only 3 truly elite teams in the league, and the champion's gonna be one of those.

[phxspurfan]

Celtics
-------
Lakers
Cavs
-------
Spurs
Nuggets
Rockets
Hornets
Utah


I disagree with this ranking. We would absolutely dismantle Cleveland. Just because they can rack up some easy wins against bad teams doesn't mean they can hang with back-to-backs against playoff-bound teams like we've done lately. In fact, as I write this, Atlanta is up by 2 in the 4th quarter against them; the same Atlanta team we just defeated.

Here are my tiers, based on game observation (no Hollinger-like stats):

1. Celtics/Lakers
2. Utah/New Orleans
3. Portland/Denver/Detroit/San Antonio/Houston
5. Cleveland/Orlando/Atlanta/Dallas/Phoenix

I'm not going off records, of course. Here's my reasoning:

The Celtics' defense is of legendary quality. I think they're on pace to win 60-70 games with that system.
The Lakers have too much top-shelf talent to slip for long periods. They'll also have a great (probably 1) seed with HCA throughout the playoffs. Their coaching is solid and Phil knows how to navigate a regular season with ease.

Cleveland will come back down to earth, at least after they've played some more Western conference teams and/or faced the adversity that will come.

I think New Orleans will start to play up to their potential soon. In the meantime, they can hang with anybody as-is (just like the Spurs).
Houston just got T-Mac back and their team is getting healthy (hopefully). Utah is always up there and can beat anybody at any time. Their bench is crazy, too. More than half of their subs would be starters on other teams.

Portland and Denver have good things going as far as chemistry, but I would give the edge to Denver there since I'm not so sure Roy is all Portland needs to succeed against the Elite. Oden needs to step his so far over-hyped game up.

Orlando is fake -- a one-man show. Dallas may or may not be there in the end. It's all based on how Kidd holds up. Likewise for Phoenix and their aging PG.

Detroit is saving it's best for the playoffs again. I can already see them taking their revenge on the Cavs if they meet again. Just imagining them with an explosive offense hurts my brain.

[wijayas]

This season: yet to be seen but we are on the way there.

[mystargtr34]

I disagree with this ranking. We would absolutely dismantle Cleveland. Just because they can rack up some easy wins against bad teams doesn't mean they can hang with back-to-backs against playoff-bound teams like we've done lately. In fact, as I write this, Atlanta is up by 2 in the 4th quarter against them; the same Atlanta team we just defeated.

Here are my tiers, based on game observation (no Hollinger-like stats):

1. Celtics/Lakers
2. Utah/New Orleans
3. Portland/Denver/Detroit/San Antonio/Houston
5. Cleveland/Orlando/Atlanta/Dallas/Phoenix

I'm not going off records, of course. Here's my reasoning:

The Celtics' defense is of legendary quality. I think they're on pace to win 60-70 games with that system.
The Lakers have too much top-shelf talent to slip for long periods. They'll also have a great (probably 1) seed with HCA throughout the playoffs. Their coaching is solid and Phil knows how to navigate a regular season with ease.

Cleveland will come back down to earth, at least after they've played some more Western conference teams and/or faced the adversity that will come.

I think New Orleans will start to play up to their potential soon. In the meantime, they can hang with anybody as-is (just like the Spurs).
Houston just got T-Mac back and their team is getting healthy (hopefully). Utah is always up there and can beat anybody at any time.

Portland and Denver have good things going as far as chemistry, but I would give the edge to Denver there since I'm not so sure Roy is all Portland needs to succeed against the Elite. Oden needs to step his so far over-hyped game up. Orlando is fake. Dallas may or may not be there in the end. It's all based on how Kidd holds up. Likewise for Phoenix and their aging PG.

Cleveland is an entirely different team to the one the Spurs beat in 07. The Hawks played at home against the Cavs who were on a back to back. The Spurs were on a back to back also but were at home against the Hawks. That should count for something.

Having said that, when fully healthy, i think the Spurs beat the Cavs in a 7-game series, but i would say that series goes at least 6 games. Cavs have blown out 11 straight teams by 12+ points and were 20-3, i dont care who they have played.

Also, like the previous poster pointed out, they have actually had a touger schedule than LA, and also had a better record. They also have a far superioir Defense than LA. Again, i think the Lakers would win that series but it probably goes 7.

Cavs dont get the respect they deserve, they were 2 minutes away from eliminating the Celtics on the road in last years playoffs, with LeBron shooting 35% and having zero help. Now they have a border line All-Star in Mo Williams and still have a top 5 Defense in the NBA.

Also, on what basis is Utah and NO ahead of the Spurs in your rankings?

[phxspurfan]

Cleveland is an entirely different team to the one the Spurs beat in 07. The Hawks played at home against the Cavs who were on a back to back. The Spurs were on a back to back also but were at home against the Hawks. That should count for something.


While Cleveland is indeed different team than when the SPurs faced them in playoff past, I still think they have the same weaknesses. Even play decent defense on Ilgauskas, Mo Williams or LeBron and that team has zero offense. Is Ben Wallace going to drop 20? Or is it Varejao?

Their loadbearing pieces are playing way too many minutes for them to stay 'elite' for 82 games + the playoffs. While young, LeBron shouldn't be playing 45 minutes on the second night of a back to back (as he did tonight). I understand Coach Brown was seeing the game slip away before his eyes, but a better coach would have managed the game when it was still in the Cavs' control, or at least gotten a win f he had to play LBJ and Mo 40+. Take either one away for 2 weeks due to a sore anything and their team is in trouble.




Also, on what basis is Utah and NO ahead of the Spurs in your rankings?


On the NO side, they competed with the Celtics decently last Friday, and still have the pieces to take down any team. CP3 is the best PG in the game. West plays up to his competition, it seems, and would blow up Amare-style against the Spurs in a series, but unlike Amare the stats would actually help his team win.

On the Utah side, I think you got me there. Without Boozer, we would probably beat them, but with Boozer it would be close. Their bench is too good to ignore. I actually think they have the best bench in the league, Lakers included.

[justanotherspursfan]

Too early to call them elite on this season. They've looked elite the last few games, but the sample size is too small. The New Orleans/Orlando BTB this week will be another good gauge, but head-to-heads with the Lakers, Celtics, and Cavs will tell us a whole lot more. After we see more of the season, the Spurs could easily be elite even if they're 10 games back in the standings or the Celtics go 78-4 or something.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter who puts up 20 game winning streaks and such during the regular season. It was only 2 years ago when Dallas destroyed the regular season and lost in the first round. See also: 2007 Patriots.

[SpurSupremacist]

The Celtics own the East. Not Lebron or Mo is gonna do anything to stop the Celtics. They Marked it down last season. They Marked it down this season. And they're putting alot of Marks on the Easts opponents behinds again.

Not really. Last year LeBron had Wally Sczcerbiak in the starting line-up. It took the game of Pierce's life for them to barely beat them in 7 games. Also, the Celtics almost lost to the Hawks. They aren't a juggernaut, by any stretch of the imagination. Throw in that LeBron is pretty much a lockdown defender and an intimidator now on defense, and they are the favorites in the East. They have the best player in the league, and his supporting cast is finally stepping up.

[SpurSupremacist]

1. Celtics/Lakers
2. Utah/New Orleans
3. Portland/Denver/Detroit/San Antonio/Houston
5. Cleveland/Orlando/Atlanta/Dallas/Phoenix


Mental note to self: Disregard anything "phxspurfan" ever writes on this message board.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

gosh i wish people would stop overrating the Jazz.

[Anti.Hero]

S.A. automatically gets ranked above Utah/Hornets because of their championship pedigree. A team with this much playoff/championship experience qualifies as an advantageous intangible asset.

I have not watched the Cavs this season but I would say,

Celtics
------------
Lakers
Cavs
-------------
Spurs
-------------
Hornets
Jazz
etc

[HarlemHeat37]

for the people commenting on the Cavs schedule..again, THEY'VE PLAYED A TOUGHER SCHEDULE THAN THE LAKERS HAVE..

[superbigtime]

We've got to beat some good times more than once before we can be elite! We beat Dallas in a close double OT game without Stackhouse or J. Howard and got almost beaten by JJ Barea, and we lost to them at home in a blowout minus Manu. We split 2 games with Houston. We got beat at home by PHX. We got beat by Portland in a close one. We barely beat the Clippers. We got embarassed by a suck-ass Detroit team at home. And got beat by Miami at home. We haven't played NO, LAL, Boston, Cleveland. We edged out the worst team in the league at home on 2 days rest last night.

Yeah I'm feeling good about the Spurs too right now, but to say that we are elite? No, not at this point. We need to beat some more good teams consistently and stop losing to inferior teams. That will change in a few weeks.

[hater]

depends what you consider elite?
Truly only elite teams are Boston + LA.

But if you include top 5 teams. Spurs are #3 in that list.

[DROB4EVER]

If the Spurs add a big who can defend and take pressure off duncan we will be elite!

[superbigtime]

If the Spurs add a big who can defend and take pressure off duncan we will be elite!

Like Brad Miller?

[HarlemHeat37]

Brad Miller is one of the worst big men defenders in the NBA..he doesn't help us at all in the way that you guys want..

[superbigtime]

Bullshit.

[m33p0]

You may put the Celtics on top but considering the additions and subtractions Boston and the Cavaliers have made, Garnett and his goons aren't getting past Cleveland this year.

[Indazone]

5http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/1.0/story/powerrankings_sas_35px.gif (http://www.nba.com/spurs/) San Antonio (8)15-8Off: 110.6 (7), Def: 106.6 (10)
The Spurs have won six straight, including Tuesday's double-OT thriller over the Mavs, and Matt Bonner continues to shoot the lights out. He's shooting .673 during the streak, hitting 12-for-19 from downtown, and now leading the league (http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/3PointS.jsp?league=00&season=22008&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=Y&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=All%20Teams) in three point percentage.

WTF? Bonner leading the league in 3 pt percentage? Over Kapono and Korver????

[m33p0]

5http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/1.0/story/powerrankings_sas_35px.gif (http://www.nba.com/spurs/) San Antonio (8)15-8Off: 110.6 (7), Def: 106.6 (10)
The Spurs have won six straight, including Tuesday's double-OT thriller over the Mavs, and Matt Bonner continues to shoot the lights out. He's shooting .673 during the streak, hitting 12-for-19 from downtown, and now leading the league (http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/3PointS.jsp?league=00&season=22008&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=Y&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=All%20Teams) in three point percentage.

WTF? Bonner leading the league in 3 pt percentage? Over Kapono and Korver????
everyone in the league and those who have been watching already know this. where have you been these past few weeks?

[DROB4EVER]

Like Brad Miller?

I dont think they go after him. He is a tuff guy and can hit the outside shots and rebound but I think they need a shot blocker which is not his forte! I doubt we go after anyone of note, and if Ian can provide this then we are likely to stand pat with our current roster.

Mutombo would be a great fit. Hes hard nose, great shot blocker and changer....good rebounder and guys are scared to death of his elbows so thats a plus. He could give us 8-10 min a game that would go a long way.

[HarlemHeat37]

Total Rebound %
Matt Bonner: 14.4%
Brad Miller: 13.6%

Blocks %
Matt Bonner: 1%
Brad Miller: 1.5%

they also foul at the same rate..

more importantly, you have to factor in the fact that this also counts Bonner's impact earlier in the season when he was struggling..

salary
Brad Miller: $11, 375, 000
Matt Bonner: $2, 978, 000

no thanks..

[lefty]

We are the 2009 NBA champions

[justanotherspursfan]

Total Rebound %
Matt Bonner: 14.4%
Brad Miller: 13.6%

Blocks %
Matt Bonner: 1%
Brad Miller: 1.5%

they also foul at the same rate..

more importantly, you have to factor in the fact that this also counts Bonner's impact earlier in the season when he was struggling..

salary
Brad Miller: $11, 375, 000
Matt Bonner: $2, 978, 000

no thanks..

Well, there you have it: Brad Miller, the poor man's Matt Bonner.

[HarlemHeat37]

of course I'm not arguing that Matt is better than him, he isn't..but I wouldn't want to pay that salary for a guy that isn't going to rebound or defend significantly better than Bonner..

Brad Miller is probably the best passing big man in the NBA, but that doesn't really make a huge difference on this team..we aren't missing that, we already have a good passing system with our bigs..

[justanotherspursfan]

of course I'm not arguing that Matt is better than him, he isn't..but I wouldn't want to pay that salary for a guy that isn't going to rebound or defend significantly better than Bonner..

Sorry, I didn't mean for that to come out as a shot at you. More in recognition of all the Bonner love floating around at the moment.


Brad Miller is probably the best passing big man in the NBA, but that doesn't really make a huge difference on this team..we aren't missing that, we already have a good passing system with our bigs..

Actually, another great passer on the floor would be pretty sweet, but yeah, not $11 million sweet. An imposing defender in the mold of Mutombo (see other thread) seems more in line with what we need to fill out the team than Miller right now.

[Kobe™]

Are we among the NBA/West elite now? 14-8....not bad and we've had some impressive wins as of late in Denver and Dallas double-OT thriller. Can we group ourselves with the other elite teams of the league: Boston, Cleveland, and Denver?

:lol