Cleveland's 20-4 start is not impressive

[SpursDynasty]

The Spurs started 20-4 in the 2001-2002 season. So let's end all talk of Cleveland being anything other than average.

[balli]

^ Yeah, but that's not why. Look at the schedule. They've been lucky enough to get multiple games already with MIL, CHI, CHA and a bunch of other scrubs. Including my Jazz when we were at our most hurt up. Very few quality wins for Cleveland.

[Armando]

You have to look into thier record. The have beaten up on cupcake teams which they should but thier lossess have come against good or great teams. Hornets,Hawks,Pistons and of course Boston still has thier number.

[KidCongo]

Armando, why are you jealous of the Cavs?

[Thunder Dan]

Armando is jealous of the Cavs, he is pissed nobody gives a shot about the pussy Suns

[Armando]

Armando is jealous of the Cavs, he is pissed nobody gives a shot about the pussy Suns


:sleep

[Thunder Dan]

You have to look into thier record. The have beaten up on cupcake teams which they should but thier lossess have come against good or great teams. Hornets,Hawks,Pistons and of course Boston still has thier number.

they already beat the fucking Hawks by like 20 earlier this year- so what? Tonight they are a good team, and 2 weeks ago they sucked? Common Armano, I know you never make sense, but atleast try to when you post. Go watch your shitty Suns lose to the shitty Bulls and the New Jersey Fucking Nets before you start talking shit

[Armando]

Armando, why are you jealous of the Cavs?


Jealous why? Because I have not jumped on the Cavs bandwagon?

[Thunder Dan]

now that I look at their schedule, the Suns only have one quality win- the Spurs on opening night, other than that they have failed to do what the Cavs have done- beat bad teams. This is why Armando is jealous

that and because he has to root for that fruitcake Steve Nash every night

[KidCongo]

Jealous why? Because I have not jumped on the Cavs bandwagon?

A person who hasn't hopped on the bandwagon doesn't bag shit on a team every time they can. A jealous Suns fan does. It's something you could only have done like twice in the past 30 days.

[Ghazi]

What people fail to mention is that they consistently blew out the bad teams.

I don't care if the opponents were poor, to have a 10 game stretch where you win by 18+ points in the NBA is seriously impressive. Only 3 teams in the league could do that, and the Cavs are one of them.

[balli]

What people fail to mention is that they consistently blew out the bad teams.

I don't care if the opponents were poor, to have a 10 game stretch where you win by 18+ points in the NBA is seriously impressive. Only 3 teams in the league could do that, and the Cavs are one of them.

Hey, I think the Cavs are a damn good team, just not because of their record or schedule. Thus, Cleveland's 20-4 start is not impressive. I'm impressed for other reasons though. :toast

[Allanon]

The Cavs record is a bit due to schedule. All of their losses have come from good teams on the road which is a bit disturbing. If you want to be a contender, you gotta beat the good teams on the road.

I don't think we'll know the real Cavs until the end of February...at least the end of January.

[lefty]

The Spurs started 20-4 in the 2001-2002 season. So let's end all talk of Cleveland being anything other than average.

Hater

[Kobe™]

Hey, I think the Cavs are a damn good team, just not because of their record or schedule. Thus, Cleveland's 20-4 start is not impressive. I'm impressed for other reasons though. :toast

The other 2 is Boston and Thunder


for the Thunder it's the other way around though!

[td4mvp21]

Where did you get those stats Kobe? I'd like to see the Spurs'.

[sook]

i am proven right once again.

Although i think the cavs have a legit shot at the finals, just not a championship

[vicphoenix13]

now that I look at their schedule, the Suns only have one quality win- the Spurs on opening night, other than that they have failed to do what the Cavs have done- beat bad teams. This is why Armando is jealous

that and because he has to root for that fruitcake Steve Nash every night

What's your problem? Just because you don't like someone who happens to be a Suns fan, doesn't mean you have to take shots at players like Steve Nash.

[BRHornet45]

well sons we handed Cleveland their ass .... but to most of yall we are just scrubs!!!!

[Armando]

well sons we handed Cleveland their ass .... but to most of yall we are just scrubs!!!!



Hornets are not scrubs they are just not playing to thier level. Even you have to admit the Hornets have been somewhat of a disappointment so far.

[LA24]

The Spurs started 20-4 in the 2001-2002 season. So let's end all talk of Cleveland being anything other than average.

Make up your mind. Didn't you put them in the "elite" category
here ? :rolleyes http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112020

[mystargtr34]

The Cavs record is a bit due to schedule. All of their losses have come from good teams on the road which is a bit disturbing. If you want to be a contender, you gotta beat the good teams on the road.

I don't think we'll know the real Cavs until the end of February...at least the end of January.

Lakers Strength of Schedule -- .483

Cavs Strength of Schedule -- .484

The Lakers have played more short handed teams aswell. How much of the Lakers record is due to their weak schedule?

[Flo-Rida]

they already beat the fucking Hawks by like 20 earlier this year- so what? Tonight they are a good team, and 2 weeks ago they sucked? Common Armano, I know you never make sense, but atleast try to when you post. Go watch your shitty Suns lose to the shitty Bulls and the New Jersey Fucking Nets before you start talking shit

armano??? Also how many curse words are you going to use???

[Thunder Dan]

i am proven right once again.

Although i think the cavs have a legit shot at the finals, just not a championship

is that because they might face the Hawks in the Finals?

armano??? Also how many curse words are you going to use???

Common give me a break I was on a iphone and swear words on that thing are the like holy grail- I was just heated last night because nobody ever wants to make any sense when they post

[Spur-Addict]

Lakers Strength of Schedule -- .483

Cavs Strength of Schedule -- .484

The Lakers have played more short handed teams aswell. How much of the Lakers record is due to their weak schedule?

:lol

[tp2021]

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7694/mahinmimt1.jpg

Nice sig pic.

[JoeTait75]

i am proven right once again.

Although i think the cavs have a legit shot at the finals, just not a championship

I'm impressed you got that much out of last night's game, in which we were shorthanded, on the second half of a back-to-back, a fourth game in five nights, against a pretty damned talented Atlanta team. Not trying to make excuses- it was a tough game, the Cavaliers showed stones by climbing back into it late, but the Hawks made the plays to win, and deserved to win. Simple as that.

Last night's game only confirmed what I've been saying all along- the Cavaliers need another reliable veteran big man. They just aren't deep enough up front as of now, and they'll have to get deeper, especially since Z and Ben aren't getting any younger.

[TheMadHatter]

This is precisely why I don't believe the Cavs can beat the Celtics.

When you have to rely on Delonte West and Mo Williams to win games for you it's not a good sign. Lebron needs to nut up and close games out by himself. Everytime he penetrates it's a guaranteed trip to the line, he's just afraid of having to take those F/Ts.

[Spur-Addict]

This is precisely why I don't believe the Cavs can beat the Celtics.

When you have to rely on Delonte West and Mo Williams to win games for you it's not a good sign. Lebron needs to nut up and close games out by himself. Everytime he penetrates it's a guaranteed trip to the line, he's just afraid of having to take those F/Ts.


https://www.highlandgear.com/catalog/images/LEUPOLD%208X42%20MESA%20BINOCULARS.jpg


I guess you didn't notice the three guys around him at all times, it's ok they are hard to see sometimes.

[JamStone]

The Cavs' record is somewhat inflated because of their schedule, but they're still really, really good this season. They haven't just been beating the teams they're supposed to beat. They're crushing those teams. And, basically all of their losses to the good teams were close games the Cavs had a chance to win.

The Cavs might not be one of the top 3 teams in the league, but they could be. We'll know more when they play more of the better teams in the league. They still need to work on getting quality wins on the road against the better teams in the league. But, they still are a really good team. How good is still up for debate.

[TheMadHatter]

https://www.highlandgear.com/catalog/images/LEUPOLD%208X42%20MESA%20BINOCULARS.jpg


I guess you didn't notice the three guys around him at all times, it's ok they are hard to see sometimes.

You and I both know Lebron can get to the rim whenever he wants. He simply didn't want to have to make those foul shots and have the game's fate decided by his own hands.

[Spur-Addict]

You and I both know Lebron can get to the rim whenever he wants. He simply didn't want to have to make those foul shots and have the game's fate decided by his own hands.

He can drive with stressing navigation, and attempt a highly contested shot from multiple defenders. Or he can drive and hit the open man. It is not an automatic that a foul is called. He could just pull up and take a jumper, no excuse there. Although, he'll probably still be hounded the same way. It happens alot during the game so it would be a given down the stretch. It isn't like he hasn't taken game winners, or went to the line in such a situation, or made and missed in either of those scenarios.

[Allanon]

Lakers Strength of Schedule -- .483

Cavs Strength of Schedule -- .484

The Lakers have played more short handed teams aswell. How much of the Lakers record is due to their weak schedule?

There is a big difference. The Cavs play better against bad teams while the Lakers play better against good teams.

The Lakers pumped up their record with wins against good teams.

The Cavs pumped up their record with wins against bad teams.

The Lakers are like 10-1 against good teams while the Cavs are 4-5 against good teams or something like that.

[JamStone]

There is a big difference. The Cavs play better against bad teams while the Lakers play better against good teams.

The Lakers pumped up their record with wins against good teams.

The Cavs pumped up their record with wins against bad teams.

The Lakers are like 10-1 against good teams while the Cavs are 4-5 against good teams or something like that.

How can the Cavs be 4-5 against good teams when they only have 4 losses total? Plus, the Cavs losses were against good teams on the road. It's arguable that the Lakers have only played one tough road game so far, against New Orleans. Dallas was in shambles when the Lakers played them there and the Denver road game was before the Iverson-Billups trade.

And, the Lakers haven't really played any of the really good teams yet though. The Lakers have decent wins against New Orleans and Dallas (the second time after their rough start) and a Houston blowout. The Laker win against Denver was again before the trade.

Lakers haven't played many really good teams, and even fewer good teams on the road.

[Allanon]

I'm sorry it's 5-4 for the Cavs, not 4-5. That is not impressive either.

Right now, the only really good team in my mind is Boston.

Everybody else is just "a good team".

I don't think it will make a difference whether the Lakers play Dallas, Hornets, Phoenix, Nuggets on the road. These teams do not match up well with the Lakers.

I think the Nugz are the 2nd best West team right now but with the Billups trade, they're even more mismatched against the Lakers. FishFarm can't handle Iverson but they can handle Billups. Billups helps the Nugz against every other team.

But I'm willing to wait for those road games to see if it does make a difference.

The Lakers are missing games from the Spurs/Jazz out West and games against the Cavs and Hawks out East. I don't think the Magic stand a chance so I don't include them.

I don't think the Jazz or Spurs can put up a fight against the Lakers right now. And of course we have the Celtics Christmas day game which I've repeatedly said will leave the Celtics looking forward to a February rematch.

And there aren't many good teams left that the Lakers haven't played, aside from the scrub teams (Thundah, Kings, Bobcats, Grizz), I can't think of any team that is a favorite to beat the Lakers. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolves beat the Lakers tonight.

I can't wait for the for schedule to get harder again so that the Lakers can starting blowing out teams once more.

Lakers will continue losing to bad teams as they have for the past decade. But they will continue beating good teams.

At least in the regular season.

For the Cavs, I think they will continue their trend of ~.550 ball against good teams as the schedule toughens up.

[JamStone]

Doesn't matter if teams don't match-up great against the Lakers when the Lakers play on the road. Do you want to argue that the Pacers match up well against the Lakers? Or the Kings or for that matter Washington who lost to the Lakers by 2 points?

Playing on the road is a different animal no matter how teams match up with each other. And, until the Lakers play a few more tough road games against really good teams, you can't make the argument that simply because teams don't necessarily match up well against the Lakers that the Lakers wouldn't have a problem playing those teams on the road. They lost to the Pacers and Kings on the road, and again only beat the Wizards by 2 points on the road. They have yet to play a really good team other than New Orleans on the road. They played Dallas on the road when that team had a lot of problems still and weren't playing well.

Denver actually matches up fine with the Lakers. And, sorry, but Fisher and Farmar don't match up well against Billups either.

[JamStone]

Lakers will continue losing to bad teams as they have for the past decade. But they will continue beating good teams.

That has yet to be proven so far this season for the Lakers. Again, they don't have many wins against good teams. So you're guessing as much as a Cavs fan would about how good the Cavs are.

[Allanon]

Doesn't matter if teams don't match-up great against the Lakers when the Lakers play on the road. Do you want to argue that the Pacers match up well against the Lakers? Or the Kings or for that matter Washington who lost to the Lakers by 2 points?

Playing on the road is a different animal no matter how teams match up with each other. And, until the Lakers play a few more tough road games against really good teams, you can't make the argument that simply because teams don't necessarily match up well against the Lakers that the Lakers wouldn't have a problem playing those teams on the road. They lost to the Pacers and Kings on the road, and again only beat the Wizards by 2 points on the road. They have yet to play a really good team other than New Orleans on the road. They played Dallas on the road when that team had a lot of problems still and weren't playing well.

Denver actually matches up fine with the Lakers. And, sorry, but Fisher and Farmar don't match up well against Billups either.

FishFarm did just fine against Billups, thankyou, he only got 15 points. As long as Billups doesn't go for 30 points, the Lakers have no problems with the Nuggz. AI & the Nuggz put up a better fight in the 1st game of the season.

Lakers don't have problems with pass-first point guards, it's the score-first point guards like AI that give them problems.

It's not about the road with the Lakers, it's the competition. The Lakers have been an excellent road team.

Give 'em the Pacers/Wiz/Kings, and it's anybody's game. Give 'em the Suns/Mavs/Nugz/Rockets/Jazz/etc on the road or at home and they'll deliver a win.

[Allanon]

That has yet to be proven so far this season for the Lakers. Again, they don't have many wins against good teams. So you're guessing as much as a Cavs fan would about how good the Cavs are.

The Lakers are 10-1 against good teams.

Cavs are 5-4.

Almost half of the Laker games have been against good teams. No other team in the NBA has as good a record against good teams as the Lakers have.

[Ghazi]

shut up

[Allanon]

shut up

Who are you talking to?

[kcplayboi_26]

Cavs are nice regardless, hi haters

[MarHill]

I have to disagree with the thread starter...even though I'm a Spurs fan.

You can only play who is on your schedule and the good teams are supposed to beat the bad or mediocre teams.

So it's a nice start for Cleveland!! There is a lot of season left and their schedule will get tougher and also there will be some adversity.

How they respond to that adversity...will show me how good they are!!

[JamStone]

FishFarm did just fine against Billups, thankyou, he only got 15 points. As long as Billups doesn't go for 30 points, the Lakers have no problems with the Nuggz. AI & the Nuggz put up a better fight in the 1st game of the season.

Billups shot 50% from the field (6-for-12), had 9 assists and 0 turnovers. Fisher and Farmar combined for 14 points, 5 assists and 2 turnovers. I wouldn't say that's doing just fine against Billups. If Carmelo actually came to play that game and scored the way the Nuggets need him to, the Nuggets have a better chance in that game.



Lakers don't have problems with pass-first point guards, it's the score-first point guards like AI that give them problems.

Chris Paul dropped 30 pts and 13 asts on the Lakers. Derrick Rose dropped 25 pts and 9 asts on the Lakers. Both pass first point guards.



It's not about the road with the Lakers, it's the competition. The Lakers have been an excellent road team.

Give 'em the Pacers/Wiz/Kings, and it's anybody's game. Give 'em the Suns/Mavs/Nugz/Rockets/Jazz/etc on the road or at home and they'll deliver a win.

The Lakers haven't played many tough teams on the road yet. You can't make the claim they are an excellent road team until they start playing good teams on the road.



The Lakers are 10-1 against good teams.

Cavs are 5-4.

Almost half of the Laker games have been against good teams. No other team in the NBA has as good a record against good teams as the Lakers have.

"Good" teams is subjective. They haven't played Boston or Cleveland yet. They haven't played San Antonio yet. They haven't played Orlando or Atlanta yet. The Lakers' only quality win on the road so far has been against the Hornets. They've had some good wins at home against Houston and Dallas. If people are going to criticize Cleveland for having a relatively soft schedule that has inflated their record, it's completely justifiable to do the same to the Lakers. What has been their most impressive win? The Hornets win on the road? The Nuggets win at home? That's about it.

[JoeTait75]

This is precisely why I don't believe the Cavs can beat the Celtics.

When you have to rely on Delonte West and Mo Williams to win games for you it's not a good sign. Lebron needs to nut up and close games out by himself. Everytime he penetrates it's a guaranteed trip to the line, he's just afraid of having to take those F/Ts.

LeBron will give it up to the open man not because he's "afraid" but because to him it's the proper basketball play, and in many cases it is. Especially on the road where you aren't guaranteed to get those calls on drives to the hoop. Mo and Delonte are good players and good shooters, especially Mo. The shots weren't dropping last night. We weren't getting the whistles either- Atlanta shot twice as many free throws as the Cavaliers.

BTW, LeBron is around 80 percent from the stripe this year. So he's been doing a nice job in that area too.

[Allanon]

Billups shot 50% from the field (6-for-12), had 9 assists and 0 turnovers. Fisher and Farmar combined for 14 points, 5 assists and 2 turnovers. I wouldn't say that's doing just fine against Billups. If Carmelo actually came to play that game and scored the way the Nuggets need him to, the Nuggets have a better chance in that game.

Billups will have to do alot more than 15 points for him to cause the Lakers any problems.



Chris Paul dropped 30 pts and 13 asts on the Lakers. Derrick Rose dropped 25 pts and 9 asts on the Lakers. Both pass first point guards.

And they still lost. That's the problem with pass-first point guards...it doesn't break down the Lakers D.



The Lakers haven't played many tough teams on the road yet. You can't make the claim they are an excellent road team until they start playing good teams on the road.

"Good" teams is subjective. They haven't played Boston or Cleveland yet. They haven't played San Antonio yet. They haven't played Orlando or Atlanta yet. The Lakers' only quality win on the road so far has been against the Hornets. They've had some good wins at home against Houston and Dallas. If people are going to criticize Cleveland for having a relatively soft schedule that has inflated their record, it's completely justifiable to do the same to the Lakers. What has been their most impressive win? The Hornets win on the road? The Nuggets win at home? That's about it.

The Lakers are 10-1 against good teams. Lakers already beat Denver, Dallas, New Orleans, and Suns on the road. Another good team won't make a difference.

The Lakers play well against good teams, they just play bad against bad teams.

But we can wait until the Lakers play some good teams on the road before I say I told you so. Lakers go see Miami, Orlando, Memphis and Hornets next week. If they lose any of those games, it will be to Memphis.

[JamStone]

Billups will have to do alot more than 15 points for him to cause the Lakers any problems.

You act like he's not capable. Please. Fisher and Farmar are not "Billups stoppers." You want to make your conclusion based on one regular season game, fine. Then you better hope the Sacramento Kings don't squeak into the playoffs as a #8 seed and the Indiana Pacers don't make it out of the East.



And they still lost. That's the problem with pass-first point guards...it doesn't break down the Lakers D.

Lakers can't stop athletic, scoring small forwards. Look at what Danny Granger and John Salmons and Tayshaun Prince did to the Lakers.

See what I did there with a small sample as my evidence?



The Lakers are 10-1 against good teams. Lakers already beat Denver, Dallas, New Orleans, and Suns on the road. Another good team won't make a difference.

They beat a different Denver team "on the road". Phoenix has proven to be about as inconsistent as they come. Not a really good team even at home considering they've lost to teams like Miami and New Jersey at home. You can't count that as a quality road win at this point in the season. The Dallas Mavericks were 2-4 and an obvious mess when the Lakers beat them in Dallas. You're really going to claim that as a quality road win at that point in the Mavericks' season? Keep drinking it.



The Lakers play well against good teams, they just play bad against bad teams.

But we can wait until the Lakers play some good teams on the road before I say I told you so. Lakers go see Miami, Orlando, Memphis and Hornets next week. If they lose any of those games, it will be to Memphis.

One solid road win against New Orleans. Yes, you should wait until you say anything about the Lakers being an excellent road team. As it's been obvious, they haven't had many quality road wins yet.

Keep drinking it.

[DrHouse]

The Lakers proved last season that they are capable of winning on the road. They don't have to re-prove this fact anymore than the Celtics do.

What they need to prove is that they have actually gotten better defensively. Anyone watching the last 5-10 games would have a hard time believing so.

[Allanon]

You act like he's not capable. Please. Fisher and Farmar are not "Billups stoppers." You want to make your conclusion based on one regular season game, fine. Then you better hope the Sacramento Kings don't squeak into the playoffs as a #8 seed and the Indiana Pacers don't make it out of the East.

Billups is a great player, but the Lakers don't have problems with pass-first point guards such as Billups. Guys like AI tear up the Lakers defense. Kings and Pacers would be "good teams" if they made it into the Playoffs and then the Lakers would beat them. As long as these bad teams stay bad, the Lakers will have problems with them.



Lakers can't stop athletic, scoring small forwards. Look at what Danny Granger and John Salmons and Tayshaun Prince did to the Lakers.

See what I did there with a small sample as my evidence?


This is why Philip removed Radman from the starting lineup.



They beat a different Denver team "on the road". Phoenix has proven to be about as inconsistent as they come. Not a really good team even at home considering they've lost to teams like Miami and New Jersey at home. You can't count that as a quality road win at this point in the season. The Dallas Mavericks were 2-4 and an obvious mess when the Lakers beat them in Dallas. You're really going to claim that as a quality road win at that point in the Mavericks' season? Keep drinking it.

Let's not start making excuses for teams.



One solid road win against New Orleans. Yes, you should wait until you say anything about the Lakers being an excellent road team. As it's been obvious, they haven't had many quality road wins yet.

Keep drinking it.

Nope, I don't go for excuses. You win or you lose. Who's to say the Lakers were playing their best ball back then? It could just have easily been the Lakers not playing well but still beat them. If they lost those games instead, would it be because they were integrating Bynum/Ariza? No excuses.

Let's quit with the excuses for why a good team loses, that's for sissies. I can go for your no Celtics/Spurs/Cavs yet. But the Lakers play what is given them. They are 10-1 and have been great against good teams until proven otherwise.

[JamStone]

Yes, let's quit with the excuses. If the Lakers lose to bad teams, they are a bad team.

Let's quit with the excuses.

[Allanon]

Yes, let's quit with the excuses. If the Lakers lose to bad teams, they are a bad team.

Let's quit with the excuses.

I don't make excuses for losses to bad teams, they're losses regardless. I say they lost to a bad team. I'm not surprised.

Lakers are 19-3, I can live with a few more losses to bad teams as long as they keep beating the good teams. If that makes them a bad team, so be it.

[Armando]

Billups will have to do alot more than 15 points for him to cause the Lakers any problems.



And they still lost. That's the problem with pass-first point guards...it doesn't break down the Lakers D.



The Lakers are 10-1 against good teams. Lakers already beat Denver, Dallas, New Orleans, and Suns on the road. Another good team won't make a difference.

The Lakers play well against good teams, they just play bad against bad teams.

But we can wait until the Lakers play some good teams on the road before I say I told you so. Lakers go see Miami, Orlando, Memphis and Hornets next week. If they lose any of those games, it will be to Memphis.



So wait a minute they will lose to Memphis? Of all those teams Memphis? Orlando,Miami won't be a walk in the park. Of course we know the Hornets.

[KidCongo]

This is precisely why I don't believe the Cavs can beat the Celtics.

When you have to rely on Delonte West and Mo Williams to win games for you it's not a good sign. Lebron needs to nut up and close games out by himself. Everytime he penetrates it's a guaranteed trip to the line, he's just afraid of having to take those F/Ts.

James scored 14 points in the last Q. 7/7 from FT.

Stop saying the same shit about him every time the Cavs lose close games.

[TheMadHatter]

James scored 14 points in the last Q. 7/7 from FT.

Stop saying the same shit about him every time the Cavs lose close games.

And yet he still refused to take the lost shot when it mattered most.

Like I said, James doesn't yet have the killer instinct.

[KidCongo]

And yet he still refused to take the lost shot when it mattered most.

Like I said, James doesn't yet have the killer instinct.

So he should take an off-balance 3 pointer with two people on him, or pass it to the open man who has his feet set?

[DrHouse]

Face it Lebron James has always been criticized in his career for deferring to teammates instead of taking the last shot for himself.

Until that changes, he will never be the closer that Kobe and Jordan are/were.

[mystargtr34]

Face it Lebron James has always been criticized in his career for deferring to teammates instead of taking the last shot for himself.

Until that changes, he will never be the closer that Kobe and Jordan are/were.

This seems to be the one thing Kobe fans are clinging too to say Kobe > LeBron.

In the last 2 minutes of a game, last season LeBron averaged 5 more PPG per 48 minutes and shot a better FG% than Kobe.

[KidCongo]

Face it Lebron James has always been criticized in his career for deferring to teammates instead of taking the last shot for himself.

Until that changes, he will never be the closer that Kobe and Jordan are/were.

Kobe is not the closer Jordan was.

[The_Game]

cavs were without big z and gibson and were on a 2nd night of a back to back..thats why they lost to the hawks

lebron is still the best player in the game and they still are the best defensive team IMO

cavs are still a top 3 team...

[The_Game]

This is precisely why I don't believe the Cavs can beat the Celtics.

When you have to rely on Delonte West and Mo Williams to win games for you it's not a good sign. Lebron needs to nut up and close games out by himself. Everytime he penetrates it's a guaranteed trip to the line, he's just afraid of having to take those F/Ts.

what you on about? mo williams is exactly what they need...a great shooter and score...which is what lebron has been so badly needing

this is why i think cavs may well win the title..bron has help now.

[stretch]

it doesnt matter who you play. a 20-4 start is pretty impressive.

[stretch]

And yet he still refused to take the lost shot when it mattered most.

Who was lighting up the Lakers in the final game of the 1991 NBA finals?

Who took the last shot in the 1993 NBA finals?

Who hit a game winner in the 1997 NBA finals?

Hint: None of them were Michael Jordan.

Fact is... if you are getting triple teamed, you gotta pass it and trust your teammates, otherwise you will not win. Even Jordan had to learn that after several tough playoff losses to the Pistons. Lebron is doing exactly what he needs to do. His maturity is ridiculously impressive, especially considering the garbage team he has had all these years, yet still trusted them to take the big shot when he was defended so heavily that it would literally be impossible for him to get a good shot off. And as he shows trust in them, teams will be forced to respect them, thus making things easier for him, so teams can't triple him the way they did the other night. And if they do, then someone else will hit shots. Maybe they missed against Atlanta, but they have succeeded at other times. West hit a huge GW shot in the playoffs last year.

Please pull your head out of your ass, and quit with the Lebron hate/Kobe knobslobbing.

[Thunder Dan]

Face it Lebron James has always been criticized in his career for deferring to teammates instead of taking the last shot for himself.

Until that changes, he will never be the closer that Kobe and Jordan are/were.

d1Px-jPm_TU

[Thunder Dan]

also, if you need a 3 to tie the game, why would you want Lebron taking it anyway? Wouldn't you want someone with a higher 3 point percentage to shoot it? I would...you guys are all bad coaches and just need to compare every single player to Jordan because you lack any other type of intelligence to figure out basketball strategy. I mean, I don't see the Spurs trying to open Tim Duncun up for game tying 3's late in games

[hater]

They remind me of the mavs of 2006

[stretch]

I mean, I don't see the Spurs trying to open Tim Duncun up for game tying 3's late in games

Shouldn't have said that. Dumbass spurs fans now will talk about his 3 against the Suns last year in the playoffs.

[TheMadHatter]

So far the Cavs have lost nearly every game they've played against quality competition.

Until that changes I'm not jumping on this bandwagon.

It's going to be BOS and LAL once again if CLE does not get HCA over BOS.

[TheMadHatter]

what you on about? mo williams is exactly what they need...a great shooter and score...which is what lebron has been so badly needing

this is why i think cavs may well win the title..bron has help now.

Mo Williams has never been and will never be a difference maker on any team.

I refuse to believe that Delonte West and Mo Williams are going to be difference makers in the playoffs.

There is a reason why so many people have been saying for years that Lebron needs a legitimate PF/C lowpost scoring option to win a title. They still aren't a balanced team playing Mo, Delonte, and James at the PG/SG/PF spot.

[stretch]

Mo Williams has never been and will never be a difference maker on any team.

Averaging 15+ ppg is a pretty big difference.


I refuse to believe that Delonte West and Mo Williams are going to be difference makers in the playoffs.

No one thought of John Paxson and Steve Kerr as being much of difference makers in the playoffs either. Look how that turned out.


There is a reason why so many people have been saying for years that Lebron needs a legitimate PF/C lowpost scoring option to win a title. They still aren't a balanced team playing Mo, Delonte, and James at the PG/SG/PF spot.

Nope. They don't have that. On the other hand, they actually look quite similar to a team that won 6 championships... a team that didn't have a lowpost scoring threat, that played great defense, and had a combination of several solid shooting and slashing scorers, to complement their ultra-gifted superstar leader.

[Thunder Dan]

So far the Cavs have lost nearly every game they've played against quality competition.

Until that changes I'm not jumping on this bandwagon.

It's going to be BOS and LAL once again if CLE does not get HCA over BOS.

I like how they beat Atlanta by 20 2 weeks ago- then lose to them at home, without 2 keys players, and they "can't beat quality teams" ---sounds like a double edge sword, Atlanta is crap when the Cavs beat them, and quality when they beat the Cavs.

So if Cleveland loses to Denver this week, let me guess the Cavs can't beat a quality team like Denver- even though they already beat them by 20 this year

[JamStone]

Hawks were without Josh Smith for that other match-up.

Zydrunas is a key player, but he was replaced by Anderson Varejao who has been playing great basketball lately. And, Daniel Gibson has sucked this year. Josh Smith was replaced by Zaza Pachulia, who gave them 1 point and 2 rebounds in that first match-up.

And, again, it goes back to winning on the road against quality competition. That's my criticism of the Cavs so far this year. The Cavs deserve praise for their start so far, but you also have to view it with a perspective that they have had a relatively easy schedule and have yet to have a good quality road win against a good team.

The Cavs are still great, just like the Lakers are still great. Forget the haters who take it to the extreme. But, both of those teams and their respective records are somewhat inflated due to their respective schedules. If either team or both teams continue to play at this level against quality competition, including on the road, then they legitimize how good they are. Until then, it's fair to at least "question" if not criticize that their records are at least in part due to their schedules.

[DrHouse]

In the next month we will know just how good the Lakers are.

Their schedule goes from cakewalk to shitstorm.

[Thunder Dan]

Hawks were without Josh Smith for that other match-up.

Zydrunas is a key player, but he was replaced by Anderson Varejao who has been playing great basketball lately. And, Daniel Gibson has sucked this year. Josh Smith was replaced by Zaza Pachulia, who gave them 1 point and 2 rebounds in that first match-up.

And, again, it goes back to winning on the road against quality competition. That's my criticism of the Cavs so far this year. The Cavs deserve praise for their start so far, but you also have to view it with a perspective that they have had a relatively easy schedule and have yet to have a good quality road win against a good team.

The Cavs are still great, just like the Lakers are still great. Forget the haters who take it to the extreme. But, both of those teams and their respective records are somewhat inflated due to their respective schedules. If either team or both teams continue to play at this level against quality competition, including on the road, then they legitimize how good they are. Until then, it's fair to at least "question" if not criticize that their records are at least in part due to their schedules.
no Z screws up their whole offense- you have Ben and Andy on the court at the same time and have 2 guys that can only score around the hoop- if at all. Z spreads the floor enough to open up the lane. Plus, Andy is better coming off the bench.

Daniel Gibson was averaging 10ppg, and turned his shooting problems around as he was shooting over 50% from 3, and averaging about 14 ppg in December

So your saying that the Cavs wouldn't have won that game without these s guys- guys that are 25 ppg combined

[JoeTait75]

Hawks were without Josh Smith for that other match-up.

Zydrunas is a key player, but he was replaced by Anderson Varejao who has been playing great basketball lately. And, Daniel Gibson has sucked this year. Josh Smith was replaced by Zaza Pachulia, who gave them 1 point and 2 rebounds in that first match-up.

And, again, it goes back to winning on the road against quality competition. That's my criticism of the Cavs so far this year. The Cavs deserve praise for their start so far, but you also have to view it with a perspective that they have had a relatively easy schedule and have yet to have a good quality road win against a good team.

The Cavs are still great, just like the Lakers are still great. Forget the haters who take it to the extreme. But, both of those teams and their respective records are somewhat inflated due to their respective schedules. If either team or both teams continue to play at this level against quality competition, including on the road, then they legitimize how good they are. Until then, it's fair to at least "question" if not criticize that their records are at least in part due to their schedules.

1.) Andy has been playing great, but Z presents an entirely different sort of matchup, spreading the floor and opening up driving and passing lanes in ways Andy can't do. Plus when we put Andy in the starting lineup, we lose his energy off the bench, when he is IMO most effective.

2.) True, Boobie got off to a slow start, but he was coming around when he got hurt. He's been working on expanding his offensive game beyond just shooting and becoming a more well-rounded player. Even if he isn't playing well, he's someone you have to account for when he's out there. Without Z or Boobie, Atlanta was able to crowd the lane and be more aggressive double-and-triple-teaming LeBron early in the clock.

I understand Josh Smith is important, but I'd be hard-pressed to argue he's any more vital to the Hawks than Z is to the Cavalier, especially as thin as we are up front.

3.) No argument whatsoever with your third paragraph.

Kobe homers: I've watched LeBron James these last five years or so. He's proven to me he knows how to turn it up when it matters. He's won countless games with winning plays all over the floor, he's taken teams further than they had any right to go, he's been tremendous in the clutch. He is not Kobe. He is a different sort of player than Kobe. Just because he is different than Kobe, doesn't make him inferior- just different.

[JoeTait75]

In the next month we will know just how good the Lakers are.

Their schedule goes from cakewalk to shitstorm.

As does Cleveland's. The true tests have yet to come.

[bostonguy]

So far the Cavs have lost nearly every game they've played against quality competition.

Until that changes I'm not jumping on this bandwagon.

It's going to be BOS and LAL once again if CLE does not get HCA over BOS.

I strongly disagree with that. Homecourt will help but it wont be a deciding factor in who wins the series. Say what you want about the first 2 rounds, the way the Celtics finished the last 2 showed you they can win on the road. The Cavs are going to need more than homecourt to eliminate the Celts in a 7 game series.

[JoeTait75]

I strongly disagree with that. Homecourt will help but it wont be a deciding factor in who wins the series. Say what you want about the first 2 rounds, the way the Celtics finished the last 2 showed you they can win on the road. The Cavs are going to need more than homecourt to eliminate the Celts in a 7 game series.

No question in my mind that the Cavaliers will need to win a game in Boston at some point if they want to be NBA champions this year. Beyond that, we'll see. But HCA helps a lot, there shouldn't be any question about that.

[Armando]

No question in my mind that the Cavaliers will need to win a game in Boston at some point if they want to be NBA champions this year. Beyond that, we'll see. But HCA helps a lot, there shouldn't be any question about that.


I think that will be the only way for Cleveland to win. IDK if they can win in Boston.

[Armando]

I strongly disagree with that. Homecourt will help but it wont be a deciding factor in who wins the series. Say what you want about the first 2 rounds, the way the Celtics finished the last 2 showed you they can win on the road. The Cavs are going to need more than homecourt to eliminate the Celts in a 7 game series.


I am not the biggest LeBron fan but I would not bet against him with HCA even vs the Celts. How did Boston fare in the Q in that series?

[Armando]

also, if you need a 3 to tie the game, why would you want Lebron taking it anyway? Wouldn't you want someone with a higher 3 point percentage to shoot it? I would...you guys are all bad coaches and just need to compare every single player to Jordan because you lack any other type of intelligence to figure out basketball strategy. I mean, I don't see the Spurs trying to open Tim Duncun up for game tying 3's late in games




For all the credit Wade got for the 2006 Finals and rightly so in Game 6 it was Posey who hit the game winning 3 to beat the Mavs. If LeBron is doubled or tripled team and forces a a bad shot that cause the Cavs to lose a series he will never hear the end of it.

[Thunder Dan]

Cleveland came alot closer to winning game in Boston than Boston did in Cleveland...just sayin

[stretch]

The Cavs are going to need more than homecourt to eliminate the Celts in a 7 game series.

I disagree completely due to the fact that the Cavs are a MUCH better team this year than last year, and that they still nearly beat the Celtics, while the Celtics definitely are not as well equipped to combat the Cavs (losing James Posey is a HUGE loss, as well as no PJ Brown).

Cavs in 6.

[Armando]

I disagree completely due to the fact that the Cavs are a MUCH better team this year than last year, and that they still nearly beat the Celtics, while the Celtics definitely are not as well equipped to combat the Cavs (losing James Posey is a HUGE loss, as well as no PJ Brown).

Cavs in 6.


That being said I believe the Celts have 1 roster spot open. We have to see what moves if any they make before the deadline.

[JoeTait75]

I think that will be the only way for Cleveland to win. IDK if they can win in Boston.

IDK either, since they haven't been able to do so in the last couple of seasons. But they were in a position to win at least three of the games in Boston in the playoffs last May, and they were in a position to win in Boston on Opening Night. They're going to need to finish the job at some point in the near future.

[Thunder Dan]

That being said I believe the Celts have 1 roster spot open. We have to see what moves if any they make before the deadline.

so do the Cavs

[Armando]

so do the Cavs


I am sure Joe Smith wants out of the purgatory that is OKC.

[Thunder Dan]

I am sure Joe Smith wants out of the purgatory that is OKC.
they could only get him if they buyout his contract because the Cavs traded him

[The_Game]

I think that will be the only way for Cleveland to win. IDK if they can win in Boston.

I don't know if Boston can win in Cleveland either.

[Armando]

I don't know if Boston can win in Cleveland either.



Maybe not thats why HCA will be important for either team. Thats why you see both teams getting off to good starts. They are playing for playoff seeding. Last year the Cavs struggled or coasted thru the regular season pick one and it cost them versus Boston. But we shall see still alot of season left.

[The_Game]

weird thing is the Cavs lost to the bad teams last year but this year are destroying them. Thats the true sign of a great team more than anything else.

[bostonguy]

I disagree completely due to the fact that the Cavs are a MUCH better team this year than last year, and that they still nearly beat the Celtics, while the Celtics definitely are not as well equipped to combat the Cavs (losing James Posey is a HUGE loss, as well as no PJ Brown).

Cavs in 6.

We will see. Big Z and Mo Williams are going to have to be consistent #2 and 3 guys playing at a high level in the playoffs for them to get over the hump. The D is very good and they have good role players and Lebron is great, but they arent going to beat a championship proven Celtic team 4 times if they arent getting enough production from their #2 and #3 guys.

If this turns into Lebron vs the Celtics again, the Celts will win it in 5 or 6 games this time around.

However if this turns into Lebron/Z/Mo Williams and company vs the Celts, the Cavs will have a great chance to win in 6 or 7 games.

[stretch]

We will see. Big Z and Mo Williams are going to have to be consistent #2 and 3 guys playing at a high level in the playoffs for them to get over the hump. The D is very good and they have good role players and Lebron is great, but they arent going to beat a championship proven Celtic team 4 times if they arent getting enough production from their #2 and #3 guys.

Again, considering how much better they are this year, I'm pretty positive that they will be capable of playing well enough to keep Lebron from having to get tripled every time he touches the ball last year. Of course we have to wait and see, but I don't doubt one bit that they are capable of it.


If this turns into Lebron vs the Celtics again, the Celts will win it in 5 or 6 games this time around.

What makes you so sure? The Celtics clearly are not as well equpped for the playoffs after losing Posey, who is the only guy that can have a chance at slowing Lebron down at all.

[bostonguy]

What makes you so sure? The Celtics clearly are not as well equpped for the playoffs after losing Posey, who is the only guy that can have a chance at slowing Lebron down at all.

The Celts will be much much better at closing playoff series out this year. If they are up 2-0 or 3-2, teams wont pushing them to a 7th game. Our team D will make Lebron work but he is getting his points regardless. It wasnt enough last year against a Celtic team that was complacent winning at home and not knowing how to close out a series when the situation presents itself. Posey or no Posey, it is going to take a total team effort to dethrone a championship proven Celtics team. This Celtic team is still very much equipped for the playoffs. They still have a bench that continues to be productive and having different role players stepping up at various times. They still have their leader Paul Pierce and defensive anchor KG to go with sharp shooter Ray Allen aka the Boston three party. Rondo is getting better and Perkins is also a contributing role player. Oh they also still have a suffocating physical defensive team as well.

[bostonguy]

For the record, I dont hate the Cavs. I think they are off to a great start and this is easily and by far the best team in the Bron era. Im just saying if they are to take it to that next level, their #2 and #3 guys will have to be consistent and productive especially when it matters most. Their role players will have to contribute etc etc. Im not saying they arent capable. Im saying that will have to happen and we wont know that until the playoffs.

It's not a knock. The same thing had to happen for the Celtics last year. If the Cavs do end up beating the Celts, I will be the first one here to say congrats to them. They were by far our toughest foe last year and I expect them to be tougher this year with Lebron's growth alone.

[stretch]

not to mention, Lebron has improved his free-throw shooting quite a bit. up around 10% from last year. i know a lot of people will bag on him for that first game this year, but it happens. everyone misses key FTs every now and then.

[Anti.Hero]

It's so nice that the East isn't just a one-team conference anymore.

If the Hawks can take Boston the distance, at least Lebron can have a decent shot.

[DrHouse]

BOS losing Posey and Brown won't really affect them UNTIL the playoffs. It's precisely because of those two players that BOS won a ring, without them they would not have won IMHO.

I refuse to believe Tony Allen, Brian Scalabrine, BBD, etc. will be difference makers in the playoffs when it really matters.

[Galileo]

The Spurs started 20-4 in the 2001-2002 season. So let's end all talk of Cleveland being anything other than average.

Spurs started 2007-2008, 17-3. Cavs start means nadda.

[bostonguy]

BOS losing Posey and Brown won't really affect them UNTIL the playoffs. It's precisely because of those two players that BOS won a ring, without them they would not have won IMHO.

I refuse to believe Tony Allen, Brian Scalabrine, BBD, etc. will be difference makers in the playoffs when it really matters.


Scalabrine is a 12th man if anything on this team. :lmao:lmao @ you including him in the rotation.

BTW I heard your holiday episode was pretty good. Looks like your show may not fall apart after all. I swear my respect for your show goes out the window if you get involved in a relationship.:nope

[DrHouse]

Scalabrine is a 12th man if anything on this team. :lmao:lmao @ you including him in the rotation.

BTW I heard your holiday episode was pretty good. Looks like your show may not fall apart after all. I swear my respect for your show goes out the window if you get involved in a relationship.:nope

You're dumber than I thought. You really think I want Cuddy around for more than teh sex?

I've seen Scalabrine in during non-garbage time. Even if he is the 12th man it doesn't change what I said. Brown and Posey are proven vets that have consistently delivered during the crunch. The dropoff between Posey and Tony Allen is immense.

[jacobdrj]

They are winning with defense and are blowing teams out. I am impressed. The Miami Heat won but a single game against ranked opponents in 2006, and I am told they won the championship that year...

[DrHouse]

They are winning with defense and are blowing teams out. I am impressed. The Miami Heat won but a single game against ranked opponents in 2006, and I am told they won the championship that year...

I think we can throw out 2006 as an NBA anomaly.

Mavs and the Heat.....neither of those teams would make it out of the conference finals this year.

[bostonguy]

You're dumber than I thought. You really think I want Cuddy around for more than teh sex?


Ah the typical Dr House response. :toast Hey if you are just hoping to tap it, im perfectly fine with that. Last thing I want to see is you showing a soft romantic side. You are known as being direct, witty, sarcastic, etc etc and it needs to stay that way.

[JamStone]

The Lakers play well against good teams, they just play bad against bad teams.

But we can wait until the Lakers play some good teams on the road before I say I told you so. Lakers go see Miami, Orlando, Memphis and Hornets next week. If they lose any of those games, it will be to Memphis.

[JamStone]

It's not about the road with the Lakers, it's the competition. The Lakers have been an excellent road team.