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duncan228
12-13-2008, 10:25 PM
An early look at MVP race shows LeBron in front (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/An_early_look_at_MVP_race_shows_LeBron_in_front.ht ml)
Mike Monroe

It doesn't seem possible that the first quarter of the NBA season has come and gone, but by Saturday morning, all but one of the 30 teams had played between 20 and 25 games.

In an 82-game season, this is as close as you get to the quarter pole.

Here is what we think we know at an arbitrarily chosen checkpoint:

•The Celtics, who don't seem to miss James Posey much, were no one-season wonder.

•The Hornets are discovering the difficulty of going from elite level to legitimate title contender.

•The Spurs aren't the Spurs without at least two healthy members of their Big Three.

•The Lakers won't win 70 games.

•A soft economy makes owners impatient with failure.

•All those teams lining up to make a run at LeBron James in 2010 are on to something.

James is way out front in the race to be this season's Most Valuable Player.

There is still an argument to be made that Kobe Bryant, the reigning MVP, is the league's best player. He is certainly the one any coach wants taking a game-winning shot.

He is not, however, 6-foot-9 and 240 pounds.

James dominates with both skill and physicality, and now he has begun to assert himself at both ends. He is getting steals and blocks and stops.

I ran the numbers I consider meaningful on the players in the MVP conversation, applying the formula Larry Bird devised in the 1980s to advise MVP voters when he and Magic Johnson were the top candidates nearly every season. Bird believed adding points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks, subtracting missed shots, missed free throws and turnovers, then dividing the sum by games played produced a measure of true value.

Here are Bird formula figures for the players I believe to be in the MVP race, through Saturday: Chris Paul (30.9), James (29.0), Dwyane Wade (28.5), Chris Bosh (26.5), Tim Duncan (25.5), Kobe Bryant (22.5), Chauncey Billups (Denver only, 20.3), Paul Pierce (18.2) and Kevin Garnett (17.6).

Numbers tell only part of the story. There are other factors when considering players' relative value.

Paul may have the highest number, but the Hornets have been a bit of a disappointment thus far. Coming off their Southwest Division title season, they have underachieved a bit.

The Lakers are off to a great start, but Bryant's production is down from his MVP season.

Wade leads the league in scoring, and his average points, rebounds and assists per game have been equaled in the past only by Michael Jordan and Oscar Robertson. But he understands the Heat will need a better winning percentage if he is to have a shot at MVP.

Bosh, the league's No. 3 scorer, is on a team that already felt the need to dismiss its coach.

Which of the Celtics is most valuable for the team that has the league's best record, Garnett or Pierce?

Duncan has been playing like he's still in his 20s. He carried the Spurs until Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker returned from their injuries.

Billups immediately changed the mind-set of chronic underachievers when he joined the Nuggets.

But it is James whose presence has the most impact for the Cavaliers, who have the second-best record in the league.

No wonder league executives are doing whatever is necessary to have enough money to make a run at him in 2010.

SpursFanFirst
12-13-2008, 10:30 PM
Shocking.
I'm not even going to bother reading this. It's been long decided.

ducks
12-13-2008, 10:33 PM
everyone said it was james going to win it this year before he even played one nba minute
he could suck and he would still get it it

he better not win the mvp award more then kobe or mj
he is not better then mj
mj and him do not even belong in the same sentence

phxspurfan
12-13-2008, 10:45 PM
he is not better then mj
mj and him do not even belong in the same sentence

But I wonder who would win in a game of 1-on-1.

justanotherspursfan
12-13-2008, 10:58 PM
But I wonder who would win in a game of 1-on-1.

Jordan's 45 now. I'm thinking LeBron.

ducks
12-13-2008, 10:59 PM
mj
james loses at horse to no name person

m33p0
12-13-2008, 11:03 PM
But I wonder who would win in a game of 1-on-1.
i'll pay to watch that game.

dirk4mvp
12-13-2008, 11:03 PM
mj
james loses at horse to no name person


Is Parker a better rapper than Nas?

lefty
12-13-2008, 11:12 PM
Shocking.
I'm not even going to bother reading this. It's been long decided.

If Cavs can keep it up, Lebron deserves the MVP 200%

Spur-Addict
12-13-2008, 11:16 PM
I could smell the hate before I even opened the thread, damn shame.

ducks
12-13-2008, 11:47 PM
If Cavs can keep it up, Lebron deserves the MVP 200%

what about if the lakers keep it up

or what if boston keeps it up
what about paul peirce

lefty
12-14-2008, 12:02 AM
what about if the lakers keep it up

or what if boston keeps it up
what about paul peirce

Kobe is jacking up shots right now; Gasol has been the best Laker so far.

LBJ doesn't have Garnett and Ray Allen
(remember the Celtics before KG and Rayray?)

pawe
12-14-2008, 12:31 AM
mj
james loses at horse to no name person

MJ lost to a fat executive in a 1 on 1 game in a team building camp.

dougp
12-14-2008, 12:58 AM
Given the choice on a team of successful roleplayers & two legitimate "all-star" caliber players - who would you take, CP3 or LJ?

You take CP3 - he makes the entire team better. LJ has already proven he can't carry a team on his own, even when surrounded by good roleplayers. Not to take away from him, but his team would be in the playoffs without him in the Eastern confrence.

mystargtr34
12-14-2008, 02:04 AM
Damn LeBron hate in full effect.

tp2021
12-14-2008, 02:34 AM
Given the choice on a team of successful roleplayers & two legitimate "all-star" caliber players - who would you take, CP3 or LJ?

You take CP3 - he makes the entire team better. LJ has already proven he can't carry a team on his own, even when surrounded by good roleplayers. Not to take away from him, but his team would be in the playoffs without him in the Eastern confrence.

Yeah, the conditions pretty much make LBJ not an option here. If the team already had 2 All-Stars, you figure scoring becomes less of a concern, and dishing the ball to them becomes the goal, so naturally you go with the PG. LBJ is a damn good passer to, though.

But, starting a team from scratch, you go with LBJ. He has more skills in pretty much every category except steals, which I don't think is a good stat. It doesn't take into account all the possessions you put your team defense in jeopardy by gambling.

tp2021
12-14-2008, 02:35 AM
And another thing, if Lebron has shown he can't carry a team, how did they get to the Finals?

TDMVPDPOY
12-14-2008, 03:11 AM
lebron will win the mvp

but you can always shut him down like what the spurs did against them in the finals.....

his got a little bit of help now, but its nothin major

ducks
12-14-2008, 10:35 AM
And another thing, if Lebron has shown he can't carry a team, how did they get to the Finals?
again replace james with melo
and cavs get a w in the finals not a title though

dougp
12-14-2008, 10:44 AM
And another thing, if Lebron has shown he can't carry a team, how did they get to the Finals?

By being in a rather easy conference - and Detroit basically not showing up in the ECF. He had the same problem that Kobe has had to live with - and now he has Gasol & Bynum.

And you think Lebron has better passing/ball handling compared to CP3? Are you blind?! CP3 has DOUBLE the assists, and only 1 less rebound. If you figure all his assists are 2pt plays - increase his points by 12 - so CP3 is at 32pts/game. He averages less than .5 difference in turnovers compared to LJ.

tp2021
12-14-2008, 11:57 AM
By being in a rather easy conference - and Detroit basically not showing up in the ECF. He had the same problem that Kobe has had to live with - and now he has Gasol & Bynum.

And you think Lebron has better passing/ball handling compared to CP3? Are you blind?! CP3 has DOUBLE the assists, and only 1 less rebound. If you figure all his assists are 2pt plays - increase his points by 12 - so CP3 is at 32pts/game. He averages less than .5 difference in turnovers compared to LJ.

I never said he was better in those categories. But I probably should have been clearer. Lebron's all-around game is much more complete than CP3's.

Also, this year the Cavs are doing better than the Hornets so far. Granted, its early, but you brought the WC v EC argument in, so heres some numbers to look at. The Cavs are 5-1 vs. the West this year, while NO is 3-3 against the East.

Everyone expected the Hornets to be better than 5 games over .500 this year (yes its early) with the addition of "Robert Horry 2.0"-James Posey (he is NO Big Shot Rob), but if they continue to be a .600+ ball club, I don't think CP3 gets the MVP. They would need to finish with roughly the same record as the Cavs, maybe lower.

Thats just what I think. I don't agree that they should have a favorite before the season starts, because it gives that player an unfair advantage without even picking up a basketball (didn't the BCS used to do that?), but at this early stage, it is Lebron's to lose.

justanotherspursfan
12-14-2008, 01:58 PM
again replace james with melo
and cavs get a w in the finals not a title though
:lmao

with melo, that team's in the lottery.

Avitus1
12-14-2008, 02:47 PM
LeBron is so good.

He can build a snowman out of rain, and then dunk on it.

Allanon
12-14-2008, 02:50 PM
Lebron's been this season's MVP so far, no doubt. His numbers are staggering.

The Cavs have also had good early success in the Win department. I think they'll be slipping up a bit right now as Big Z has a sprained ankle. Their schedule will also get substantially harder in the coming months.

As long as the Cavs keep winning, the MVP is LeBron's to lose.

samikeyp
12-14-2008, 04:10 PM
everyone said it was james going to win it this year before he even played one nba minute
he could suck and he would still get it it

he better not win the mvp award more then kobe or mj
he is not better then mj
mj and him do not even belong in the same sentence

Yet you just put him there...well, as close to a sentence as is allowed in Ducks-ese.

:lol

ducks
12-14-2008, 04:13 PM
funny if you think james does not deserve the mvp you hate him

do people think all spurs players deserve the mvp
if you do not
I guess byusing this logic you ate them

phxspurfan
12-17-2008, 03:19 PM
:lmao

with melo, that team's in the lottery.

How sad and true...even though Melo gets about as many stats as LeBron.

Spur-Addict
12-17-2008, 03:25 PM
again replace james with melo
and cavs get a w in the finals not a title though

You sir are delusional.


LeBron is so good.

He can build a snowman out of rain, and then dunk on it.

:lmao


funny if you think james does not deserve the mvp you hate him

do people think all spurs players deserve the mvp
if you do not
I guess byusing this logic you ate them

LBJ doesn't have two consistent all star level players on his roster.

lefty
12-17-2008, 03:26 PM
Ducks REALLY hates Lebron :lol

ambchang
12-17-2008, 04:27 PM
MJ lost to a fat executive in a 1 on 1 game in a team building camp.

See attached video.

http://www.lipstickalley.com/showthread.php?t=161474

The guy isn't really that fat.