SF quandary - Marcus Williams

[spectator]

I am wondering how Spurs fans, watching the Toros, feel about M. Williams. By the way this season has gone so far, it looks like Pop likes Finley at 3 b/c Bowen and Udoka are not playing as well as expected and b/c 1 and 2 are already well covered. With the numbers that Williams is putting, I would like to know if he has the D to play with the Spurs later in the season. I do like the fact that he is not averaging a high number of fouls (2.43 per 42 minutes) unlike the rest of the high scorers on the team.

So, can he play D and is he valuable enough to contribute at the SF for the Spurs this season? Cheers.

[tp2021]

Welcome to our newest member.

[angelbelow]

not this season. he seems to be much improved though.

[raspsa]

If the Spurs will ever hire a new SF, no undersized players hopefully.. basketball is still a big man's game i.e. a good big player > a good smaller player

[SPURS21]

With a healthy Spurs team no one will be be getting called up...

I'm only 23 and saw "M Williams" and was reminded of Monty Williams...
Have I been a fan of silver and black way too long to know about the above mentioned player?

[DannyT]

Welcome to our newest troll.



fixed:tu

[SenorSpur]

I doubt the Spurs will be able to use him this season. However, it be great if both Williams and Hairston developed to the point that they eventually become full-time Spurs swingmen. over the next couple of seasons. That would be the truest example of drafting and developing your talent the D-League.

[1usamotorsports.com]

I talk to marcus from from time to time. Hes been playin some good ball . I think hes another hill . Pop just needs to play him .

[exstatic]

Why do people think the Spurs are even still interested? They wanted him to go to Europe last year and he didn't. They cut him. He did sign with the Toros, but I think that was wishful thinking on his part. He ended up getting called up by someone else last year. He wasn't in our training camp. He missed the NBA this year, and by rule, if he plays in the d-league, he must go back to his original team, Austin.

I think all evidence points to them NOT being interested. He's putting up good d-league numbers, yet, we have Ahearn on the 15 man roster as a 4th PG. No one can all up Ahern, but anyone at any time can grab Williams. Thirty teams have taken a pass, so far, not just the Spurs. From what I've heard, he plays the PF spot a lot, something he can't do in the NBA, and he's not quick enough to play SF.

[tp2021]

fixed:tu

I actually don't think this one is a troll.

[Biggems]

If Williams turns out to be a player, then our future looks even nicer with Hill, Mason, Hairston, Gist, Tolliver, Ahearn, and Williams. I would like to somehow get Courtney Sims, if not this year, then the next.

2009-10 Roster
C - Bonner, Ian, Thomas
PF - Duncan, Oberto, Tolliver
SF - Bowen, Gist, Hairston
SG - Mason, Manu, Finley
PG - Parker, Hill, Ahearn

2010-11 Roster
C - Bosh/Stoudamire, Bonner, Sims
PF - Duncan, Ian, Tolliver
SF - Bowen, Gist, Williams
SG - Mason, Manu, Hairston
PG - Parker, Hill, Ahearn

I am not under the impression that we need to sign one of those big name FAs in 2010, but if we do, I would want it to be a Big, either Bosh or Stoudamire.

[exstatic]

If Williams turns out to be a player, then our future looks even nicer with Hill, Mason, Hairston, Gist, Tolliver, Ahearn, and Williams. I would like to somehow get Courtney Sims, if not this year, then the next.

2009-10 Roster
C - Bonner, Ian, Thomas
PF - Duncan, Oberto, Tolliver
SF - Bowen, Gist, Hairston
SG - Mason, Manu, Finley
PG - Parker, Hill, Ahearn

2010-11 Roster
C - Bosh/Stoudamire, Bonner, Sims
PF - Duncan, Ian, Tolliver
SF - Bowen, Gist, Williams
SG - Mason, Manu, Hairston
PG - Parker, Hill, Ahearn

I am not under the impression that we need to sign one of those big name FAs in 2010, but if we do, I would want it to be a Big, either Bosh or Stoudamire.

Don't you think that if he was roster-worthy, he'd actually be on the 15 man roster? The Spurs are carrying a full compliment of 15 this year, unlike last year, and they don't think he's worthy of protecting? Take the hint. They don't think he's an NBA player. They'd rather protect a possible 3rd PG/Vaughn replacement for next year in Ahearn.

[ChumpDumper]

He missed the NBA this year, and by rule, if he plays in the d-league, he must go back to his original team, Austin.Actually the Toros had to protect Marcus in the expansion draft and designate him as a returning player over the summer. It's not really a sign of the Spurs' interest in him, but it was a no-brainer to keep him.


I think all evidence points to them NOT being interested. He's putting up good d-league numbers, yet, we have Ahearn on the 15 man roster as a 4th PG. No one can all up Ahern, but anyone at any time can grab Williams. Thirty teams have taken a pass, so far, not just the Spurs. From what I've heard, he plays the PF spot a lot, something he can't do in the NBA, and he's not quick enough to play SF.This season the Toros have a pretty effective three big man rotation that keeps Marcus playing the swing spots most of the time. He has also been guarding several smaller, quicker players. I haven't quite made out a pattern for his and Hairston's defensive assignments yet. It's true he may never be quick enough to play well in the NBA, but I feel the same way about Ahearn.

[ChumpDumper]

Don't you think that if he was roster-worthy, he'd actually be on the 15 man roster? The Spurs are carrying a full compliment of 15 this year, unlike last year, and they don't think he's worthy of protecting? Take the hint. They don't think he's an NBA player. They'd rather protect a possible 3rd PG/Vaughn replacement for next year in Ahearn.I guess there are a couple of ways of looking at this. one could say they don't think Hairston is an NBA player either, but is that really true?

Whenever they signed any of these guys -- Williams, Hairston, Ahearn, Tolliver, Washington -- they weren't fully guaranteed. They had/have their chances for a decision that is made some time after they are signed. The Spurs had to sign Tolliver and Ahearn to give them their chance on the Toros. They didn't have to in the case of Washington, Hairston or Williams.

There is definitely a risk of losing one of the unsigned players to another team, and it looks like the Spurs have accepted that risk, although RC Buford told me that he would prefer to have some kind of protection for those players. Until January 10 when contracts become guaranteed, we can't make any solid pronouncements about Tolliver or Ahearn. Washington was waived December 28 after six games with the Toros. Tolliver and Ahearn have played five and six Toro games respectively, while playing much fewer games for the Spurs than Washington.

[duncan228]

As always, thanks for the insight ChumpDumper.

I found myself in a D-League conversation this morning, and everything I know about it comes from this board. Mostly from Chump but from others too. It's been fun learning about it, I never cared much before reading detail here.

[Obstructed_View]

From what I've seen of Marcus, he doesn't play like a forward. If you could put George Hill in his body you'd have the long three of the future. How could he be worse than Udoka, though? Find a way to ship Ime out of town, and I'll say bring him in.

[Biggems]

Don't you think that if he was roster-worthy, he'd actually be on the 15 man roster? The Spurs are carrying a full compliment of 15 this year, unlike last year, and they don't think he's worthy of protecting? Take the hint. They don't think he's an NBA player. They'd rather protect a possible 3rd PG/Vaughn replacement for next year in Ahearn.

can you read? i mean seriously....I said IF he can become a player, then it makes our future look BRIGHTER, because it gives us one more young option. Also, notice that I did not have him on this year's roster or even next year's. I had him on the 2010-11 roster, meaning I am giving him 2 years to prove his game is worthy for the NBA.

NOW YOU TAKE THE HINT....

[ChumpDumper]

Judging from the two players the Spurs now have in Austin, they seem to be putting an enormous premium on three point shooting. That's all well and good, and a big reason the Toros are winning games -- hopefully, these guys can learn enough of the other things NBA players need to do to stick in the league and contribute.

[exstatic]

can you read? i mean seriously....I said IF he can become a player, then it makes our future look BRIGHTER, because it gives us one more young option. Also, notice that I did not have him on this year's roster or even next year's. I had him on the 2010-11 roster, meaning I am giving him 2 years to prove his game is worthy for the NBA.

NOW YOU TAKE THE HINT....

He's averaging 22.3/8.8 this year, and doesn't have their attention. What, exactly, do you seem him doing beyond that to get a roster spot in two years?

I just find it funny that people think because Williams is on the Toros roster, that he's even at all in the Spurs plans. The Toros own his rights, and no matter what happens, unless they release or trade him, like a spawning salmon, he'll always be back there if he's in the d-league.

Things working against Marcus:

1) He defied the wishes of the parent club, who wanted him to go to Europe for a year. Not a good thing, from the perspective of a club that values team over self.

2) He's not here now. Our SF rotation is:

37 YO
a VERY old 35
32, and undersized

I think if they had any plans for him, he'd at LEAST be on the 15 man roster during the non-guaranteed portion of the season.

3) I'm not sure the Spurs are even in his plans. Didn't he accept someone else invite for NBA training camp this season?

[Austin_Toros]

How could he be worse than Udoka, though? Find a way to ship Ime out of town, and I'll say bring him in.

this kid is playing extremely well and i think should be brought to our team.
WAIVE AHEARN PLEASE! i dont mind him but we dont need him

marcus williams and malik hairston WE ACTUALLY NEED to fill positions (SF)

udoka is currently junk and bowens minutes have diminished: please bring in MARCUS!

[Darkwaters]

I would not, under any circumstances, sign Marcus Williams to a contract at this point. Hes a d-league stud but does not have the physical skill-set to stick in the NBA. I'd rather they look at a player like Hairston or a big like Sims. Williams has had 2 full Spurs contracts already. I see no reason that a 3rd would yield different results.

[tp2021]

This is how I see it: The Spurs are waiting until Mahinmi plays to make a decision. Of he plays well, they could sign a SF like Hairston. If he isn't working out as they hope, they sign a PF/C like Sims.

[Darkwaters]

This is how I see it: The Spurs are waiting until Mahinmi plays to make a decision. Of he plays well, they could sign a SF like Hairston. If he isn't working out as they hope, they sign a PF/C like Sims.

Agreed. So I'm a little unclear why they're locking up a PG then. I think the Spurs need to decide if Ahearn is their future at the 3rd PG slot or if Vaughn is the better solution. At this point 3rd PG is such a low priority on our wish list that I think we should just waive Ahearn and lock up either another post or a wing. Hairston wouldn't upset me. But Sims makes the most sense. I doubt he lasts much past January 10 while Hairston is hardly a lock to get a callup anytime soon. Plus, the Spurs have already looked at Hairston over the summer and have a decent idea of what hes capable of. Sims is much more enigmatic and has been downright dominant in Iowa so far.

[ChumpDumper]

Ahearn isn't locked up.

[SenorSpur]

Agreed. So I'm a little unclear why they're locking up a PG then. I think the Spurs need to decide if Ahearn is their future at the 3rd PG slot or if Vaughn is the better solution. At this point 3rd PG is such a low priority on our wish list that I think we should just waive Ahearn and lock up either another post or a wing. Hairston wouldn't upset me. But Sims makes the most sense. I doubt he lasts much past January 10 while Hairston is hardly a lock to get a callup anytime soon. Plus, the Spurs have already looked at Hairston over the summer and have a decent idea of what hes capable of. Sims is much more enigmatic and has been downright dominant in Iowa so far.

+1 x 100

[exstatic]

I would not, under any circumstances, sign Marcus Williams to a contract at this point. Hes a d-league stud but does not have the physical skill-set to stick in the NBA. I'd rather they look at a player like Hairston or a big like Sims. Williams has had 2 full Spurs contracts already. I see no reason that a 3rd would yield different results.

What I have heard is that Marcus does NOT have the lateral quickness to defend NBA caliber wing players. He's essentially a very good d-league combo forward, lacking the skills to be an NBA wing and the size to play with the NBA big boys in the paint. In baseball terms, he's Triple-A for life. He'll probably get a few call ups over the next few years, but the only way a player like this ever sticks is through massively hard work, and that's never been his M.O. It requires a massive mental shift to go from thinking "I'm a star" which he was told his whole HS and college career, to "If I work very hard, I may stick for a few years in a 9-15 bench role". I don't think Marcus has that in him.