View Full Version : The biggest flopper award
TMTTRIO
12-15-2008, 07:06 PM
Well at least that's one thing Manu lost:lol. Yeah just pick all the South Americans. I guess they forgot some players such as Steve Nash and Raja Bell. I do agree with Varejao though.
CzDTgbZ37mE
DannyT
12-15-2008, 07:14 PM
rack em
good call coach
CubanMustGo
12-15-2008, 07:18 PM
Floppajao FTW
ClingingMars
12-15-2008, 07:19 PM
lol @ the hate for Manu and Fab. guess they can't appreciate good positioning.
-Mars
ILoveOranges
12-15-2008, 07:21 PM
Raja Bell anyone?
Kobe with the occasional arm slap mid-air spaz?
8BjhfwVY_p8
xNN9ZiH38fs
FromWayDowntown
12-15-2008, 07:25 PM
How does Derek Fisher never get included in this discussion?!?!?!
jack sommerset
12-15-2008, 07:26 PM
Mangoo flopper of the decade.
homer
12-15-2008, 07:27 PM
Raja Bell anyone?
Kobe with the occasional arm slap mid-air spaz?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BjhfwVY_p8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNN9ZiH38fs
And how can we forget CP3?
:hat
Anti.Hero
12-15-2008, 07:28 PM
AK???????????
Fuck that list. "there's no 6 or 7, these are the only 5 in the league that flop"
HarlemHeat37
12-15-2008, 07:28 PM
Manu hasn't flopped this year, it sucks to say..I love his flopping..
neither Manu or Oberto is the best flopper on the Spurs though, that goes to my man Kurt Thomas..he's an artist in flopping..
Derek Fisher is #1 for me..he's great at it, I have to give him credit..
guys like Nash and Stoudemire use flopping as their ONLY form of defense, since they don't actually play any other kind of D..Raja Bell is obviously near the top..Pau Gasol is the best all-around flopper in the NBA, since he flops verbally, physically and he's mastered the facial flop..Chris Paul is obviously up there too..
ILoveOranges
12-15-2008, 07:29 PM
And how can we forget CP3?
:hat
3TaRdBpxfrw
:blah
Spur-Addict
12-15-2008, 07:30 PM
How does Derek Fisher never get included in this discussion?!?!?!
Seriously though, I agree 100%!
YoMamaIsCallin
12-15-2008, 07:36 PM
Here's the thing.
Just because someone flops doesn't mean he wasn't fouled.
That's what people forget.
Give the refs some credit for not being idiots, please, you anti-flopper commentators.
Chieflion
12-15-2008, 07:55 PM
The very fact that Kobe flops even when there is no contact makes the list illogical, but of course the league wants to have fun while not having to point out their superstars flop is so typical of the NBA. Nonetheless, I enjoyed the video.
Obstructed_View
12-15-2008, 08:22 PM
Kobe, Paul and Nash aren't on the list? Please. Funny how the Manu and Nocioni clips are legitimate fouls. Manu got hit right it the center of his chest. It's not like he snapped his head back and fell to the floor.
Yorae
12-15-2008, 08:25 PM
Derek Fisher....would that be all time?? Hmmm....
ILoveOranges
12-15-2008, 08:27 PM
Dwyane Wade! Love his style, but even when he doesn't flop he gets the call.
mouse
12-15-2008, 08:30 PM
No flopper award is going to be bigger or better than the 2008-2009 ST posters agree the Spurs are 0-3 they must suck! get rid of Pop! trade Parker, oh wait!..... now they are playing better?......... never mind. (insert the flop) Spurs all the way! gas up the river boats! we are going to win another ring yeaaaaa.. bi-Polar SpursTalk Spurs fan flop?
Dat shit is Flopalicious
Solid D
12-15-2008, 10:08 PM
Yeah, I saw this on NBA tv. I couldn't believe they didn't have Andrew Bogut on their list. He is certainly in the top 7. Fisher and Raja Bell are also good floppers.
Yorae
12-15-2008, 10:11 PM
Have you seen Yao Ming flop? I uhm just crossed my mind...
johnnyblues
12-15-2008, 10:27 PM
Chris Paul. Nuff said.
mfanatic
12-15-2008, 10:51 PM
Manu is 6'7? He's 6'5 at best.
xtremesteven33
12-15-2008, 11:04 PM
Manu is 6'7? He's 6'5 at best.
6'6''
How is flopping any worse than an offensive player throwing himself into someone to get a foul? They are both intentional, unnecessary, exagerated motions to draw a foul. Yet the offensive player is applauded for it...
How is flopping any worse than an offensive player throwing himself into someone to get a foul? They are both intentional, unnecessary, exagerated motions to draw a foul. Yet the offensive player is applauded for it...
Because points are more important than stops according to the casual NBA fan.
Flop of All Flops
8ukde193ivM
Believe.
ILoveOranges
12-16-2008, 02:32 AM
That was a good one :)
ILoveOranges
12-16-2008, 02:33 AM
Boing!
Watch how he pushes off with his arms :D
t6mvfKF3B3w
Xylus
12-16-2008, 03:27 AM
I don't understand what the hell you guys are talking about. In the couple of decades that I've watched the Suns, I don't think I've ever seen them flop on a single play.
Raja Bell isn't a flopper, he's just very elastic. Nash really is that light. Shaq isn't falling down, the rest of the world is falling up.
The Suns... Floppers? I don't think so.
The Truth #6
12-16-2008, 03:27 AM
"Don't take it the wrong way," Rich Kamla asks. What is the right way to take it? That Rick Kamla is a dumb cheeseball?
His list was compiled by a bunch of old timers who hardly even played with the players they chose. Given that, how could they not mention the guys still in the league who they did play with who are habitual floppers? Derek Fisher is one of the bigger floppers of all time.
Their list seems pretty nativist. And the one American player they throw out there is a complete nobody.
David Stern: "Flopping is the act of a few lone individuals. The league's image is clean!"
anakha
12-16-2008, 03:30 AM
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99811
Wonder where all the Suns trolls are now?
jhuan16
12-16-2008, 03:56 AM
No Battier?
Bob Lanier
12-16-2008, 03:57 AM
Flopping started with Divac? :td
Fernando TD21
12-16-2008, 04:10 AM
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ILoveOranges
12-16-2008, 04:31 AM
KhRpmhgiLpw&eurl
Xylus
12-16-2008, 04:40 AM
KhRpmhgiLpw&eurl
:lmao
diego
12-16-2008, 07:50 AM
it really annoys me that flopping in the NBA is always pinned on foreigners, when there are countless stories from players in the 70s (when there were no foreigners playing in the NBA or ABA) talking about flopping and how to address it.
even moreso when there are so many guys that flop a lot in todays game that arent foreign.
but then there is the guy who accentuates contact, and the guy who makes it up. and then, the most despicable:
the dead ball flop, when the player is just looking to get another guy in trouble over nothing. Im looking at Baron Davis (on Okur) and Chris Paul (on Bruce Bowen). Has Vlade or Varejao or Manu ever flopped on someone in a dead ball situation? to me 1 dead ball flop in a season is a way bigger cheat than a guy who accentuates contact 4 times a game.
diego
12-16-2008, 07:55 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTdERYOtqsg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eH71jI_DNU
those are the ones im talking about, someone who knows how to embed can put them up
Manufan909
12-16-2008, 08:04 AM
KhRpmhgiLpw&eurl
What the hell was the call on that play?:wow:lmao:wow
And concerning Fernando's post, the last AK flop and the invisible man charge with Duke were the best, easily.
AnotherArgie
12-16-2008, 08:19 AM
What the hell was the call on that play?:wow:lmao:wow
Look at Dampier's right hand. He's the one who makes the foul, not Dirk.
Manufan909
12-16-2008, 08:28 AM
Cool. I just have never seen a player foul his own teammate. What are the rules for that if said team is out of fouls to give?
Obstructed_View
12-16-2008, 09:07 AM
Kenyon Martin is a huge flopper, and Devin Harris had a year when he was with the Mavs that was outright embarassing before he cleaned up his act. Jacque Vaughn is the worst flopper on the Spurs, as I've seen him stand there and fall backwards with no contact and get calls. And that's the key: as long as the refs are going to reward guys for doing it, don't blame them for trying to get every edge they can.
Who was it that Tony Parker threw halfway across the court in the game the other day? I remember JVG joking that Parker really is strong enough to do that with just his elbow.
Manufan909
12-16-2008, 09:14 AM
Kenyon Martin is a huge flopper, and Devin Harris had a year when he was with the Mavs that was outright embarassing before he cleaned up his act. Jacque Vaughn is the worst flopper on the Spurs, as I've seen him stand there and fall backwards with no contact and get calls. And that's the key: as long as the refs are going to reward guys for doing it, don't blame them for trying to get every edge they can.
Who was it that Tony Parker threw halfway across the court in the game the other day? I remember JVG joking that Parker really is strong enough to do that with just his elbow.
Nene I think, but that was a week ago so I could be wrong. I remember in 07 when Parker barely touched Okur and he went flying. Mehmet could give Manu lessons.:lol
sonic21
12-16-2008, 09:15 AM
Amare :tu
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sonic21
12-16-2008, 09:17 AM
baron
MTdERYOtqsg
mrspurs
12-16-2008, 09:47 AM
Europe invented the Flop. And when the Flop first started getting noticed, fans loved it. Now they cant stand it. Unless of course its your player who flops and the foul goes against the opponent. I personally dont care either way. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt.
wijayas
12-16-2008, 10:17 AM
Manu hasn't flopped this year, it sucks to say..I love his flopping..
neither Manu or Oberto is the best flopper on the Spurs though, that goes to my man Kurt Thomas..he's an artist in flopping..
Derek Fisher is #1 for me..he's great at it, I have to give him credit..
guys like Nash and Stoudemire use flopping as their ONLY form of defense, since they don't actually play any other kind of D..Raja Bell is obviously near the top..Pau Gasol is the best all-around flopper in the NBA, since he flops verbally, physically and he's mastered the facial flop..Chris Paul is obviously up there too..
Facial flop? :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao
I'd love to see it in youtube, if you have. Thanks!!! :lol
MaNuMaNiAc
12-16-2008, 10:20 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTdERYOtqsg
MTdERYOtqsg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eH71jI_DNU
7eH71jI_DNU
those are the ones im talking about, someone who knows how to embed can put them up
hater
12-16-2008, 10:36 AM
Amare Stoudamire has been flopping like the best this season:
Z9zGFLbDRf8
:lmao
Tully365
12-16-2008, 01:26 PM
Here's the thing.
Just because someone flops doesn't mean he wasn't fouled.
That's what people forget.
Give the refs some credit for not being idiots, please, you anti-flopper commentators.
Good point. Also, flopping is always a calculated risk-- if a defender does it and doesn't get the call, he leaves his guy undefended.
diego
12-16-2008, 01:55 PM
Amare Stoudamire has been flopping like the best this season:
Z9zGFLbDRf8
:lmao
damn. that was bad.
i cant remember if last year or the one before, amare flopped backwards off of dwight howard and landed on nash... of course, all the suns fans who insist manu flopped and injured barbosa, didnt have anything to say about their PF making MVP pancakes.
diego
12-16-2008, 02:17 PM
Europe invented the Flop. And when the Flop first started getting noticed, fans loved it. Now they cant stand it. Unless of course its your player who flops and the foul goes against the opponent. I personally dont care either way. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt.
http://hoopshype.com/columns/flop_hans.htm
Blame America, not Europe, for the flop
by Dennis Hans / May 15, 2006
Miami coach Pat Riley, upset over the increasing number of offensive fouls called against his center, Shaquille O’Neal, lashed out at foreigners for bringing the flop to the NBA. “In this league,” he said, “it's become an art form, brought, by the way, by the Europeans.”
Alas, not only does Riley sound like the stereotypical “ugly American” with that comment, he’s dead wrong. The flop is as American as Kentucky bluegrass. Maybe Vlade Divac brought a European flair to the stunt when he joined the Lakers – Pat Riley’s Lakers – in 1989, but U.S.-born hoopsters had already been taking dives for decades.
In his 1998 book revealingly titled Values of the Game (p. 149), former senator and Knick Bill Bradley sings the praises of Frank Ramsey, the great Celtic sixth man of the 1950s (and, like Riley, a U. of Kentucky grad): He “could draw an offensive foul by placing his hand behind his opponent’s back (the hand away from the referee) and pulling him forward so that it would appear that the opponent had intentionally run into him. On defensive rebounds, if his opponent had nudged him under the basket so he couldn’t get to the ball, he would simply fling up his arms and fall forward, looking for all the world like a man who had been pushed. Often the referee agreed.”
There are two schools of thought on flopping. The Bradley school –which I would brand ethically challenged – sees such tactics as legitimate and integral to the so-called “game within the game.” There’s the game you play against the opposing team and a simultaneous cat-and-mouse contest with the refs. Painting misleading or even
grotesquely false pictures for the refs to get the whistles to go your way is the heart of this second game.
The Olajuwon-Cowens school – to which I proudly belong – sees basketball as a single game. It doesn’t see a “game within the game,” though it does see some bad apples who cheat. This school is baffled by and disgusted with an NBA hierarchy whose long silence on flopping implicitly condones and encourages cheating.
Back in his playing days, Dave Cowens published a letter to the editor in the Boston Globe denouncing the growing scourge of flopping as bad for the game. But he was more than a man of words. In one game, Mike
Newlin took a dive on Cowens, who got called for a foul he didn’t commit. Enraged, Cowens ran down and flattened Newlin, then yelled at the ref, “Now that's a foul!”
In 1997, the much-admired Hakeem Olajuwon spoke for many when he said of Karl Malone, “The MVP of the league must be legitimate. He can’t be flopping, looking for cheap fouls. It isn’t right. It cheapens the game and it cheapens him.” (St. Petersburg Times, May 21, 1997)
Olajuwon and Cowen have it exactly right, which is why I named a school after them.
The first flopper I remember from my youth is Jerry Sloan. Long before he became the Mailman’s coach and, one presumes, flopping mentor, he was an All-Star and defensive ace for the Chicago Bulls. When the show “Vintage NBA” profiled Sloan, his coach, Dick Motta, recalled fondly how Sloan would flop all over the court. The accompanying footage confirmed that at least one big guard had mastered the phony stagger long before Manu Ginobili arrived from a European league.
Sloan was the hero of the first player I despised – Doug Collins. A “Vintage NBA” show on John Lucas focused on a last-minute Collins flop that cost the Houston Rockets a shot at the 1977 Eastern Conference crown and, according to the show, led to Lucas’s eventual trade to Golden State, where, cut off from his friends and support base, he developed serious problems with alcohol and cocaine that would plague him for a decade. While I’m inclined to cut Collins some slack for Lucas’s substance abuse – it’s possible that flop wasn’t entirely to blame – what led me to despise him was his antics against my favorite player – George “the Iceman” Gervin. Collins didn’t try to guard him; he instead looked for opportunities to take a dive. It was his mission to get Ice into foul trouble and off the court. I recall one play where Collins launched himself into an anticipatory pratfall – the replay showed that Gervin hadn’t come within a foot of the Philly faker. Collins was a Hall-of-Fame talent with Hall-of-Shame values.
As a color commentator on NBC and TNT, Collins repeatedly has sung the praises of guys who flop and flail from incidental or non-existent contact, such as his new TNT colleague, the buffoonish Reggie Miller.
Even Collins didn’t flop as much as Ron Lee of the Suns, the first player to try to turn every single possession into real or imaginary block/charge collisions. Where did Lee learn this “style” of defense? At the University of Oregon under Dick Harter, who would later be a favorite assistant coach of Riley’s.
I was a Washington Bullets fan at that time, and one of their reserves had played for Harter. Greg Ballard was a big burly forward, yet he could convincingly collapse if a fly landed on his shoulder.
When David Stern became commissioner in 1984, Bill Laimbeer was the premiere flopper, which was one reason he was the most hated player in the league. A few seasons later he had an understudy, Dennis Rodman, and their flopping and cheap shots helped put the Detroit Pistons over the top as they won NBA crowns in 1989 and 1990.
The Chicago Tribune’s Sam Smith, in his 1992 book The Jordan Rules (p. 18), observed that Michael Jordan “didn’t care much for Rodman’s play. ‘He’s a flopper,’ Jordan would say disdainfully. ‘He just falls down
and tries to get the calls.’”
Years later, when Rodman joined the Chicago Bulls, Jordan evinced no problem with Rodman’s flopping, which helped the Bulls win three consecutive NBA titles, the first of which came against Seattle. The Sonics were coached by George Karl, who in his 1997 book This Game’s the Best! (p. 20), described Rodman as a “cute cheater” who won Game Two of the 1996 Finals all by himself “just by flopping every time our Frank Brickowski came near him. . . . If Dennis Rodman did this stuff on the playgrounds, you’d punch him.”
Karl now coaches at Denver, where he periodically rails against flopping and comes off as a member of the Olajuwon-Cowens school. But he seems to have swallowed his tongue since acquiring notorious flopper (and
testicles squeezer) Reggie Evans.
Karl and Jordan matriculated at the University of North Carolina. Might they have pursued the same degree – Situational Ethics?
Returning to the present, the occasion for Riley’s comments was Shaq’s statement that he’s facing a proud member of the “flopternity” in Jason Collins of the Nets. Shaq says that Collins likes to bang in the paint, but then he’ll flop when Shaq bangs back. Shaq is right about Collins, though the Net also draws his share of legit, non-flopping charges from the likes of Shaq and Jermaine O’Neal, who tend to telegraph their bulldozing “moves” a week in advance.
That bulldozing is one reason Shaq has zero credibility as a critic of flopping, for he has benefited immensely from playing much of his career when refs, for whatever reason, have allowed him to break the rule against dislodging — an allowance not accorded center greats of yesteryear. Another reason to shed no tears for Shaq is that he didn’t object to the flops of teammates Derek Fisher and Robert Horry when their antics were contributing to three Laker championships.
While amnesiac Riley blames Europe for the flop, the reality is that Fisher, Horry, Evans, Collins, Rodman, Ramsey, Lee, Laimbeer, Newlin, Miller and Sloan were born and raised in the USA and taught the game by
non-European coaches. Given that U.S. coaches tout their countless teaching clinics in far-flung lands as instrumental in globalizing the American-born game, perhaps we should see foreign NBA floppers as a form
of “blowback”: Donnie Nelson and other hoop missionaries bring the fundamentals of flopping to Lithuanians, Serbs and Argentinians, who then give it their own twist before gravitating to the NBA.
It’s a depressing thought for subscribers to the Olajuwon-Cowens school, but for the Bradley school it’s all good – fodder, perhaps, for a sappy “NBA Cares” spot, showing how our hoop missionaries teach youngsters the
world over how to con a ref.
Dennis Hans’s essays on basketball – including the styles, rhythms and fundamentals of free-throw shooting – have appeared online at the Sporting News and Slate. His writings on other topics have appeared in the New York Times, Washington Post and Miami Herald, among other outlets.
peskypesky
12-16-2008, 02:40 PM
Varejao hands down. Then Manu. Then Nash.
The Truth #6
12-16-2008, 05:15 PM
Seeing Amare flop against Fisher is a weird sort of justice. I suppose Fisher got a T to make us think he's somehow not part of the same game.
ORION
12-16-2008, 06:25 PM
who cares. Its part of the game. I know I did it. Worked sometimes and sometimes is doesn't. Getting fouls and changing possession is always good
mrspurs
12-17-2008, 07:24 AM
http://hoopshype.com/columns/flop_hans.htm
Blame America, not Europe, for the flop
by Dennis Hans / May 15, 2006
Miami coach Pat Riley, upset over the increasing number of offensive fouls called against his center, Shaquille O’Neal, lashed out at foreigners for bringing the flop to the NBA. “In this league,” he said, “it's become an art form, brought, by the way, by the Europeans.”
Alas, not only does Riley sound like the stereotypical “ugly American” with that comment, he’s dead wrong. The flop is as American as Kentucky bluegrass. Maybe Vlade Divac brought a European flair to the stunt when he joined the Lakers – Pat Riley’s Lakers – in 1989, but U.S.-born hoopsters had already been taking dives for decades.
In his 1998 book revealingly titled Values of the Game (p. 149), former senator and Knick Bill Bradley sings the praises of Frank Ramsey, the great Celtic sixth man of the 1950s (and, like Riley, a U. of Kentucky grad): He “could draw an offensive foul by placing his hand behind his opponent’s back (the hand away from the referee) and pulling him forward so that it would appear that the opponent had intentionally run into him. On defensive rebounds, if his opponent had nudged him under the basket so he couldn’t get to the ball, he would simply fling up his arms and fall forward, looking for all the world like a man who had been pushed. Often the referee agreed.”
There are two schools of thought on flopping. The Bradley school –which I would brand ethically challenged – sees such tactics as legitimate and integral to the so-called “game within the game.” There’s the game you play against the opposing team and a simultaneous cat-and-mouse contest with the refs. Painting misleading or even
grotesquely false pictures for the refs to get the whistles to go your way is the heart of this second game.
The Olajuwon-Cowens school – to which I proudly belong – sees basketball as a single game. It doesn’t see a “game within the game,” though it does see some bad apples who cheat. This school is baffled by and disgusted with an NBA hierarchy whose long silence on flopping implicitly condones and encourages cheating.
Back in his playing days, Dave Cowens published a letter to the editor in the Boston Globe denouncing the growing scourge of flopping as bad for the game. But he was more than a man of words. In one game, Mike
Newlin took a dive on Cowens, who got called for a foul he didn’t commit. Enraged, Cowens ran down and flattened Newlin, then yelled at the ref, “Now that's a foul!”
In 1997, the much-admired Hakeem Olajuwon spoke for many when he said of Karl Malone, “The MVP of the league must be legitimate. He can’t be flopping, looking for cheap fouls. It isn’t right. It cheapens the game and it cheapens him.” (St. Petersburg Times, May 21, 1997)
Olajuwon and Cowen have it exactly right, which is why I named a school after them.
The first flopper I remember from my youth is Jerry Sloan. Long before he became the Mailman’s coach and, one presumes, flopping mentor, he was an All-Star and defensive ace for the Chicago Bulls. When the show “Vintage NBA” profiled Sloan, his coach, Dick Motta, recalled fondly how Sloan would flop all over the court. The accompanying footage confirmed that at least one big guard had mastered the phony stagger long before Manu Ginobili arrived from a European league.
Sloan was the hero of the first player I despised – Doug Collins. A “Vintage NBA” show on John Lucas focused on a last-minute Collins flop that cost the Houston Rockets a shot at the 1977 Eastern Conference crown and, according to the show, led to Lucas’s eventual trade to Golden State, where, cut off from his friends and support base, he developed serious problems with alcohol and cocaine that would plague him for a decade. While I’m inclined to cut Collins some slack for Lucas’s substance abuse – it’s possible that flop wasn’t entirely to blame – what led me to despise him was his antics against my favorite player – George “the Iceman” Gervin. Collins didn’t try to guard him; he instead looked for opportunities to take a dive. It was his mission to get Ice into foul trouble and off the court. I recall one play where Collins launched himself into an anticipatory pratfall – the replay showed that Gervin hadn’t come within a foot of the Philly faker. Collins was a Hall-of-Fame talent with Hall-of-Shame values.
As a color commentator on NBC and TNT, Collins repeatedly has sung the praises of guys who flop and flail from incidental or non-existent contact, such as his new TNT colleague, the buffoonish Reggie Miller.
Even Collins didn’t flop as much as Ron Lee of the Suns, the first player to try to turn every single possession into real or imaginary block/charge collisions. Where did Lee learn this “style” of defense? At the University of Oregon under Dick Harter, who would later be a favorite assistant coach of Riley’s.
I was a Washington Bullets fan at that time, and one of their reserves had played for Harter. Greg Ballard was a big burly forward, yet he could convincingly collapse if a fly landed on his shoulder.
When David Stern became commissioner in 1984, Bill Laimbeer was the premiere flopper, which was one reason he was the most hated player in the league. A few seasons later he had an understudy, Dennis Rodman, and their flopping and cheap shots helped put the Detroit Pistons over the top as they won NBA crowns in 1989 and 1990.
The Chicago Tribune’s Sam Smith, in his 1992 book The Jordan Rules (p. 18), observed that Michael Jordan “didn’t care much for Rodman’s play. ‘He’s a flopper,’ Jordan would say disdainfully. ‘He just falls down
and tries to get the calls.’”
Years later, when Rodman joined the Chicago Bulls, Jordan evinced no problem with Rodman’s flopping, which helped the Bulls win three consecutive NBA titles, the first of which came against Seattle. The Sonics were coached by George Karl, who in his 1997 book This Game’s the Best! (p. 20), described Rodman as a “cute cheater” who won Game Two of the 1996 Finals all by himself “just by flopping every time our Frank Brickowski came near him. . . . If Dennis Rodman did this stuff on the playgrounds, you’d punch him.”
Karl now coaches at Denver, where he periodically rails against flopping and comes off as a member of the Olajuwon-Cowens school. But he seems to have swallowed his tongue since acquiring notorious flopper (and
testicles squeezer) Reggie Evans.
Karl and Jordan matriculated at the University of North Carolina. Might they have pursued the same degree – Situational Ethics?
Returning to the present, the occasion for Riley’s comments was Shaq’s statement that he’s facing a proud member of the “flopternity” in Jason Collins of the Nets. Shaq says that Collins likes to bang in the paint, but then he’ll flop when Shaq bangs back. Shaq is right about Collins, though the Net also draws his share of legit, non-flopping charges from the likes of Shaq and Jermaine O’Neal, who tend to telegraph their bulldozing “moves” a week in advance.
That bulldozing is one reason Shaq has zero credibility as a critic of flopping, for he has benefited immensely from playing much of his career when refs, for whatever reason, have allowed him to break the rule against dislodging — an allowance not accorded center greats of yesteryear. Another reason to shed no tears for Shaq is that he didn’t object to the flops of teammates Derek Fisher and Robert Horry when their antics were contributing to three Laker championships.
While amnesiac Riley blames Europe for the flop, the reality is that Fisher, Horry, Evans, Collins, Rodman, Ramsey, Lee, Laimbeer, Newlin, Miller and Sloan were born and raised in the USA and taught the game by
non-European coaches. Given that U.S. coaches tout their countless teaching clinics in far-flung lands as instrumental in globalizing the American-born game, perhaps we should see foreign NBA floppers as a form
of “blowback”: Donnie Nelson and other hoop missionaries bring the fundamentals of flopping to Lithuanians, Serbs and Argentinians, who then give it their own twist before gravitating to the NBA.
It’s a depressing thought for subscribers to the Olajuwon-Cowens school, but for the Bradley school it’s all good – fodder, perhaps, for a sappy “NBA Cares” spot, showing how our hoop missionaries teach youngsters the
world over how to con a ref.
Dennis Hans’s essays on basketball – including the styles, rhythms and fundamentals of free-throw shooting – have appeared online at the Sporting News and Slate. His writings on other topics have appeared in the New York Times, Washington Post and Miami Herald, among other outlets.
Thanks for the history lesson. But Im sticking with my guns. The Euro's brought that flop stuff over here. I havnt watched alot of basketball like many others. But I dont remember players flopping in the 70s or 80s. I do recall all the attention when the Euros started playing in the NBA. And its spread all over the league. Including highschool and jr.highschool.
manufor3
12-17-2008, 07:53 AM
Kobe, Paul and Nash aren't on the list? Please. Funny how the Manu and Nocioni clips are legitimate fouls. Manu got hit right it the center of his chest. It's not like he snapped his head back and fell to the floor.
m33p0
12-17-2008, 11:28 AM
i'm still waiting for the league to crackdown on flopping.
nkdlunch
12-17-2008, 12:16 PM
I gotta say, Manu has not had a memorable flop in over 2 years. No doubt Amare, CP3 have passed him in flop skills.
And yes, Varejao + Kirilenko are the undisputed flop-for-flop co-champions
SpurSupremacist
12-17-2008, 02:33 PM
Where's Kobe Bryant at? Every time he goes up for a shot, expect to hear a loud "HHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYY".
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