why do spurs have such pathetic offense???

[hater]

It seems all we do is one of the following:
Option 1: give it to duncan at the post and pray.
Option 2: pick n roll. TP + TD
Option 3: Dribble, find an open 3pt shooter, shoot. (don't bother rebounding)
Option 4: don't even bother passing, just fake your defender and shoot a fadeaway

they are playing offense like I play nba live. Either give it to Duncan or shoot a 3.

I see too much standing around, too much, way too much thinking. It seems most of the time they are not letting the game come to them. It's sad because they are 4 time champions!

I am no NBA coach but isn't there anything else they should try on offense???

oh and what ever happened to trying to get a foul call while driving to the basket???????? :pctoss

[urunobili]

PJ left... part of it is that...

[Spork KIller]

PJ left... part of it is that...

Bwahahahahahahahaha!

[nkdlunch]

well, we don't really have playmakers in the team. Manu would be the only one and he is MIA. He is slow-footed and something is up psychologically in him too.

Last season we had Barry. Yes Spurs miss Barry's playmaking.

Let's be honest, TP is amazing but not an offensive playmaker such as CP3, Deron, Nash.

So let's look at the top teams, they either have a great playmaker like CP3, Deron, Nash, or a superstar(Kobe/Lebron), all we can strive for is play somewhat like the Celtics style of offense.

[mexicanjunior]

It seems the Spurs struggle against any team that decides not to double Duncan and allow open 3 point shots this year. I think that will continue to be the case until (hopefully) Parker and Ginoboli are able to drive and finish at the basket freely again. Right now, Duncan gets the ball in the post and waits for something to happen. If no double comes, he ends up shooting the bank shot or driving in for a runner, sometimes he makes it and sometimes he doesn't depending on who is guarding him. Last night, Howard had success in altering his (and any other people in the lane's) shots. When Duncan is not on the floor, it turns into the Manu-Parker show and, at this time, they are pulling up for jumpers much too often.

[Dex]

Sometimes it comes down to just making shots.

Spurs were getting great looks throughout the entire first half against Orlando; they just weren't hitting them. They were verifiably tired and front-rimming everything.

It also seems there are certain players (I.E. Finley, Bonner, even Duncan) who seem to start overthinking things once they miss a few shots. Instead of just letting fly, they hesitate and put up shots out of rhythm, and every continual brick only seems to make things worse.

[mexicanjunior]

Sometimes it comes down to just making shots.

Spurs were getting great looks throughout the entire first half against Orlando; they just weren't hitting them. They were verifiably tired and front-rimming everything.

It also seems there are certain players (I.E. Finley, Bonner, even Duncan) who seem to start overthinking things once they miss a few shots. Instead of just letting fly, they hesitate and put up shots out of rhythm, and every continual brick only seems to make things worse.

It's concerning to think the only way the Spurs can beat teams is with the 3 point shot falling. It seems like there is no real plan B, which isn't going to cut it come playoff time...

[honestfool84]

i say we should fire Pop, hire PJ, trade manu for kobe, and parker and jacque for williams and cp3 respectively, and then hire jerry west as an assistant coach.


oh yeah, and trade duncan for hedo turkoglu.

[honestfool84]

then we'd never have any problems offensively.

[Dex]

It's concerning to think the only way the Spurs can beat teams is with the 3 point shot falling. It seems like there is no real plan B, which isn't going to cut it come playoff time...

Concerning, but that's how the inside-out offense works. The Spurs have been one of the better three-point shooting teams in the League throughout the Duncan era. Unfortunately, that's seems to make them rely on gathering at least 15-30 points from the arc to get to their expected offensive output.

Duncan and Tony are great players, but we can't expect them to rack up 100 points in the paint every night, and it's been ages since the Spurs have had a second-option presence in the post. In an offense that so deliberately defines the roles of creators and shooters, the shooters have to step up and hit their shots.

[nkdlunch]

Sometimes it comes down to just making shots.


I don't agree. Spurs need a personality offensively and 3pt shooting team is not it.

It could be as simple as Pop going to Manu/TP/Mason/Finley AND Hill and saying: "if you don't go to the line at least 4 times a game" you are not doing your job"

[mexicanjunior]

Duncan and Tony are great players, but we can't expect them to rack up 100 points in the paint every night, and it's been ages since the Spurs have had a second-option presence in the post. In an offense that so deliberately defines the roles of creators and shooters, the shooters have to step up and hit their shots.

No one is saying they have to carry a 100 pt load but at least have a secondary gameplan when the outside shots aren't falling. Instead of adjusting for off nights, it seems like they keep doing the same thing over and over, which just puts them further into a hole. This type of inconsistent "feast or famine" offensive gameplan will be hard to keep up in the playoffs against the better defensive teams...

[DROB4EVER]

Duncan and Parker have no Heart!!!! Manu not driving enough, and we are shooting way too many 20ft jumpers. Even Tim looking like he wants to play the SF spot, he shoots more facing the basket than with his back to it. Thats the true mark of decay of a bigman!

Pops needs to decide are we ganna run and out score teams or be a defensive team! Stop having a bunch of small guys on the floor and then try to play a slow game.

Duncan and Parker need a kick in the ass! Parker got owned last night, and Duncan is getting pushed around by everyone. He even struggled with that bald white guy who couldnt make most nba teams. Soft as shit!

[Dex]

I don't agree. Spurs need a personality offensively and 3pt shooting team is not it.

It could be as simple as Pop going to Manu/TP/Mason/Finley AND Hill and saying: "if you don't go to the line at least 4 times a game" you are not doing your job"

Hard to argue with that.

The only people who seem to consistently attack the basket to score are Tim, Tony, and Manu...and when it's not going for them, it's not going for them. Everybody else, with the occasional exception from Hill, seems to slash just to create and pass out.

And the Spurs ability to draw fouls this season has been downright pathetic. I don't even care to look how close to the bottom we are in Free Throws Attempted.

[xtremesteven33]

HAHAHAHA......Do people understand the Spurs gameplans or not??

Spurs system is not built on scoring over 100 points a game. Were built to score in the low 90's and hold other teams down in the high 80's lower 90's.
This team is not an offensive juggernaut and never will be under Pop. If the defense is solid then so will our offense most of the time. Last night was an exemption.

This system has brought us 4 Championships. Its funny, its like a saying:

"You know what theyre gonna do, but you just cant stop it"

Spurs will continue with this system until proven otherwise. Offense revolves around the Big 3. Just like every other team.

[honestfool84]

+1, xtremesteven33.

[T Park]

well, we don't really have playmakers in the team. Manu would be the only one and he is MIA. He is slow-footed and something is up psychologically in him too.

Last season we had Barry. Yes Spurs miss Barry's playmaking.

Let's be honest, TP is amazing but not an offensive playmaker such as CP3, Deron, Nash.

So let's look at the top teams, they either have a great playmaker like CP3, Deron, Nash, or a superstar(Kobe/Lebron), all we can strive for is play somewhat like the Celtics style of offense.

Yeah I mean, look at his ability to do it with Hou.....


What?

Hes hurt again?


Same injury different leg?!?!?

Oops...

[mexicanjunior]

HAHAHAHA......Do people understand the Spurs gameplans or not??

Spurs system is not built on scoring over 100 points a game. Were built to score in the low 90's and hold other teams down in the high 80's lower 90's.
This team is not an offensive juggernaut and never will be under Pop. If the defense is solid then so will our offense most of the time. Last night was an exemption.

This system has brought us 4 Championships. Its funny, its like a saying:

"You know what theyre gonna do, but you just cant stop it"

Spurs will continue with this system until proven otherwise. Offense revolves around the Big 3. Just like every other team.

I think the championship teams had more "drive and kick" in them than this team does now. That could change if Parker and Manu get back to 100% and show their old lane collapsing form but I just don't see it now. This team has fallen in love with the jumpshot and that is not a good thing against teams that can defend...

[hater]

HAHAHAHA......Do people understand the Spurs gameplans or not??

Spurs system is not built on scoring over 100 points a game. Were built to score in the low 90's and hold other teams down in the high 80's lower 90's.
This team is not an offensive juggernaut and never will be under Pop. If the defense is solid then so will our offense most of the time. Last night was an exemption.

This system has brought us 4 Championships. Its funny, its like a saying:

"You know what theyre gonna do, but you just cant stop it"

Spurs will continue with this system until proven otherwise. Offense revolves around the Big 3. Just like every other team.

nobody is askin the spurs to score 100pts a game. :rolleyes

but they need some kind of offense than can score more than 15pts per quarter. The current 3pt shooting only, relying on Duncan to beat 3 guys at a time is pathetic IMO.

and BTW, the 2003 champion spurs had a beast of an offense.

[Allanon]

Matt Bonner is the reason. KT is also some of the reason as he doesn't work the post either.

The Spurs went from an interior oriented team to a jump-shooting team when they traded in a down-low guy (Oberto) for a perimeter guy (Bonner).

Oberto was never a mega-scorer but he was always a threat since he was very close to the basket. Without him there, Tony/Manu have fewer interior passing options.

Duncan is getting doubled very frequently now because he's the only Spur on the blocks. His only option now is a jumper, bank shot or a kick-out. It's rare to see him get deep in the paint because the minute he gets the ball close to the basket he gets swarmed. You know he's getting swarmed when TD has primarily become a jump-shooter. No way he's sniffing the paint with all those secondary defenders waiting for him.

It's the benefit and trade-off of having a 3 point shooting big man.

[hater]

good point! Oberto at least helps in flow of offense. Playing Bonner is like sticking a cork in the offense's asshole!

[Kori Ellis]

Do they have a pathetic offense?

In December, what are they averaging, 101 points per game?

[Manufan909]

good point! Oberto at least helps in flow of offense. Playing Bonner is like sticking a cork in the offense's asshole!

I'm not going to even compare their ppg, to save you from looking like a moron. And Kori ellis, shame on you and xtremestevens for trying to bring that goddamn logic into this thread. Overreacters only!!!!

[Allanon]

I don't think the Spurs offense is pathetic but I do think it's inconsistent. The Spurs have great shooters, no doubt. However, when they're off, there is no plan B. Because they're a skilled outside shooting team, the Spurs will usually have great offensive nights.

But when the shots aren't falling, it can get ugly.

[hater]

I'm not going to even compare their ppg, to save you from looking like a moron. And Kori ellis, shame on you and xtremestevens for trying to bring that goddamn logic into this thread. Overreacters only!!!!

thanks for contributing. Doesn't change the fact that when Spurs face a decent team with a decent big, we are in deep shit. Duncan is slowed down and like many say live by the 3 die by the 3.

An offense that relies on pure 3pt shooting is pathetic IMO.

and we were averaging 100+ppg. yeah, but many of our players were shooting lights out from 3pt in those games. Anybody who expected this to continue all season and through playoffs is dumb.

[xtremesteven33]

thanks for contributing. Doesn't change the fact that when Spurs face a decent team with a decent big, we are in deep shit. Duncan is slowed down and like many say live by the 3 die by the 3.

An offense that relies on pure 3pt shooting is pathetic IMO.

and we were averaging 100+ppg. yeah, but many of our players were shooting lights out from 3pt in those games. Anybody who expected this to continue all season and through playoffs is dumb.


Word of the day:


December

[Kori Ellis]

Your offense has to be geared toward your personnel. The Spurs run pick n roll, isos up top, Timmy in the block, and penetration (drive all the way or kick to 3 point shooters) because it suits who they have on the floor. They can't run a 7 seconds or less offense, because they don't have the horses for it.

When their offense gets stagnant is when Tony and Manu don't trust their teammates and go iso too much, when there's no movement in the motion offense, or when the 3 point shooters go dry.

But when it comes down to it, this offense is pretty good for the personnel that they have.

[xtremesteven33]

Your offense has to be geared toward your personnel. The Spurs run pick n roll, isos up top, Timmy in the block, and penetration (drive all the way or kick to 3 point shooters) because it suits who they have on the floor. They can't run a 7 seconds or less offense, because they don't have the horses for it.

When their offense gets stagnant is when Tony and Manu don't trust their teammates and go iso too much, when there's no movement in the motion offense, or when the 3 point shooters go dry.

But when it comes down to it, this offense is pretty good for the personnel that they have.



It was worse in 1999 and we still won a championship.

the gameplan was: "Give it to Duncan"

[mexicanjunior]

I don't think the Spurs offense is pathetic but I do think it's inconsistent. The Spurs have great shooters, no doubt. However, when they're off, there is no plan B. Because they're a skilled outside shooting team, the Spurs will usually have great offensive nights.

But when the shots aren't falling, it can get ugly.

Agreed...this offense can be successful against poor defensive rotating team's but that won't be who the Spurs would face deep in the playoffs...

[bigdog]

The Spurs offense is not a bad offense. It's just not as flexible as people would like. The thing I hate is all the iso's on the perimeter. Sure, Manu and TP are pretty good handling the ball, but I'd like to see some more screens for shooters and more ball movement. Other than that, the Spurs have been getting alot of good open shots, they just haven't been falling.

Had they been making their shots, I don't think this thread would be here right now. Alot of their losses aren't because of the defense, it's just that the balls don't go into the bucket.

[superbigtime]

It seems all we do is one of the following:
Option 1: give it to duncan at the post and pray.
Option 2: pick n roll. TP + TD
Option 3: Dribble, find an open 3pt shooter, shoot. (don't bother rebounding)
Option 4: don't even bother passing, just fake your defender and shoot a fadeaway

they are playing offense like I play nba live. Either give it to Duncan or shoot a 3.

I see too much standing around, too much, way too much thinking. It seems most of the time they are not letting the game come to them. It's sad because they are 4 time champions!

I am no NBA coach but isn't there anything else they should try on offense???

oh and what ever happened to trying to get a foul call while driving to the basket???????? :pctoss

Because we have a defensive coach. We are 30th in the league in fast break points and 29th in paint points. Too much outside shooting.

[SenorSpur]

Sometimes it comes down to simply making shots. If the Spurs make their shots versus the Hornets, they win easily. However, making shots wasn't the only problem on display. There are more areas of concern.

- Scoring droughts
- Defensive breakdowns
- Outquicked, outrebounded and outhustled
- Losing the turnover battle

Where I've seen this movie before? Oh yes. This was on display during last year's playoffs versus Hornets and Fakers. Such is the life of an older NBA team. When the Big Three are struggling (particularly on back-to-backs), the bench HAS to step up and provide a lift. That hasn't happened either.

Guys like Hill, Mason, Bonner, Tolliver and Ian (when he finally makes his debut) will need to make big contributions to offset the faitigue realized by the older players. Pop is going to have to develop that depth on the fly.

[xtremesteven33]

When the Spurs win, its cause of experience
When the Spurs lose, its cause theyre old

[SenorSpur]

When the Spurs win, its cause of experience
When the Spurs lose, its cause theyre old

...when the Spurs play B2B games, their age works against them.

[mrspurs]

...when the Spurs play B2B games, they're age works against them.

You can add this to the program as well. When this team plays 7 games series they're age works against them as well. But who knows maybe, just maybe Ian will show up and play some ball this year in a Spurs uniform. I bet Timmy is hoping so too.

[mrspurs]

Sometimes it comes down to simply making shots. If the Spurs make their shots versus the Hornets, they win easily. However, making shots wasn't the only problem on display. There are more areas of concern.

- Scoring droughts
- Defensive breakdowns
- Outquicked, outrebounded and outhustled
- Losing the turnover battle

Where I've seen this movie before? Oh yes. This was on display during last year's playoffs versus Hornets and Fakers. Such is the life of an older NBA team. When the Big Three are struggling (particularly on back-to-backs), the bench HAS to step up and provide a lift. That hasn't happened either.

Guys like Hill, Mason, Bonner, Tolliver and Ian (when he finally makes his debut) will need to make big contributions to offset the faitigue realized by the older players. Pop is going to have to develop that depth on the fly.

Well said. Lets hope the sooner the better for the On the Fly...........:wow

[Allanon]

...when the Spurs play B2B games, they're age works against them.

This also worries me about the Spurs, I don't know if it's age or hustle.

Remember that play when Tim Duncan, of all people, was the only one back on defense on a 4 on 1? Tim looked back and was like WTF, where are my teammates?

I haven't really felt bad for Timmy this year, even when he was forced to play without Tony and Manu. But I felt bad for him on that play.

[YODA]

I dont think there is much problem with the O....Other the the obvious missing of open shots, the only thing I saw was a lack of driving to the basket. I kinda saw the game like this. Early on, timmy, TP, and manu attacked rim often, but ref's were letting them play and not making calls. I think they got frustrated by this and started to take a ton of outside shots. I know timmy and TP were alot less likely to drive in the later periods. Of course they were tiried, but I think we still need to keep attacking. usuallty its attack and pass out, which is where the passing game comes together. It looked like they just passed around perimiter till someone was open and shot. no attempt to drive at all. Ill just chalk it up as a back to back.

On another note, I thought Bonners D was really shown as a defeciency versus hornets. Pop tried to useThomas and it worked. I worry how Bonner will do in playoffs. A huge concern.

last thing,,,is TP hurt?

[Spur-Addict]

This also worries me about the Spurs, I don't know if it's age or hustle.

Remember that play when Tim Duncan, of all people, was the only one back on defense on a 4 on 1? Tim looked back and was like WTF, where are my teammates?
I haven't really felt bad for Timmy this year, even when he was forced to play without Tony and Manu. But I felt bad for him on that play.

I think it's a little of both.

:lmao--He knows he needs some help, but he's too much of a pro and good person to bring that to the forefront. He'll ride this until it breaks because he's that good of a person. We'll see, but something has to be done.

[ducks]

Do they have a pathetic offense?

In December, what are they averaging, 101 points per game?

tp sucks is not a point guard
it is all tp's fault
do not confuse the haters with FACTS

[TDMVPDPOY]

you forgot option 1b, my name is tony parker, ima dribble down court, look left and right, i see open man, no i wont pass the ball, i drive it into the lane, i spin inside out, i studder step 2 guys, i throw up a floater, no contact foul, i flop to the floor and whine to the refs....ball bounces out.

[ducks]

you forgot option 1b, my name is tony parker, ima dribble down court, look left and right, i see open man, no i wont pass the ball, i drive it into the lane, i spin inside out, i studder step 2 guys, i throw up a floater, no contact foul, i flop to the floor and whine to the refs....ball bounces out.
pop benches players that do not follow his orders
if tp did that he would be benched
especially since hill has played so well

[itzsoweezee]

the spurs couldn't score last night because NO ONE WAS MOVING! i was screaming at screen. especially in the beginning of the third quarter. those guys weren't even trying.

[mrspurs]

This also worries me about the Spurs, I don't know if it's age or hustle.

Remember that play when Tim Duncan, of all people, was the only one back on defense on a 4 on 1? Tim looked back and was like WTF, where are my teammates?

I haven't really felt bad for Timmy this year, even when he was forced to play without Tony and Manu. But I felt bad for him on that play.

I started feeling sorry for Timmy when they sent Elson away and brought in Kurt. (so late in the season). And when the PO's started I really felt sorry for him. Being doubled by Amare and Shaq and carrying his team with his own 3 point shot. Then followed by Tyson(who can defend Timmy one on one), and West against the Hornets. I saw alot of faces Timmy made that said....Where are my teamates? And they still havnt given him any help. I hope Ian is gonna be ready soon. Timvp said it before the season even started if I remember. This season could lie in the hands of Ian. Or something to that nature.

[timvp]

In their last ten wins, the Spurs are averaging 108.6 points per game.

In their last eight loss, the Spurs are averaging 80.6 points per game.

A "pathetic offense" isn't really the problem. Those numbers point to a lack of consistency.

[hitmanyr2k]

There was a time when this team used to have players cutting to the rim for easy baskets. Now it's like all of their passes are going towards the perimeter. Too many shooters spotting up waiting for a kickout instead of diving towards the rim when Duncan gets doubled. Someone needs to show Popovich Game 2 of the '05 Finals when the Spurs offense ran a clinic on passing and ball movement. Where has that team gone?

[Rohirrim]

Bonner is adding the dunk to his game guys.

A couple more weeks of doing stairs in AT&T and Spurs will be unstoppable.

[m33p0]

why do spurs have such pathetic fans???

[Amuseddaysleeper]

why do spurs have such pathetic fans???

because they have such pathetic offense

[HillCountrySpursFan]

The offense has been incredibly inconsistent and the defense hasn't been that much better, and the last 2 games are living proof of that...against teams that hustle, that do have consistent shooters, the spurs came up short, they looked like they ran out of gas and it's only December.....Finley isn't consistent, Bonner has been ok for a few games and shot lights out, but not when it mattered.....

[Spur-Addict]

why do spurs have such pathetic fans???

Contrary to popular belief, all fans are not created equal. Nor do all fans have the same potential to fill the true fan capacity. Yes, it's true, and it saddens me to say it. :depressed

It's no indication to anyone who has posted in this thread, it's just in general. Happy holidays everybody.

[Fabbs]

In their last eight loss, the Spurs are averaging 80.6 points per game.

That's pathetic.

[benefactor]

In their last ten wins, the Spurs are averaging 108.6 points per game.

In their last eight loss, the Spurs are averaging 80.6 points per game.

A "pathetic offense" isn't really the problem. Those numbers point to a lack of consistency.
Expanding on this is the assimilation of the new players with the stars. Everyone saw how well Mason and Hill were playing and just expected them mix together beautifully with the stars right off the bat...which is and unrealistic assumption. They have only played 11 games total together and that is not nearly enough in this system with the big three.

Kori made a good point on Manu and TP historically not trusting their teammates as much when the offense gets stagnant. This is especially true with Manu because he has always been the fire starter when our energy level goes down. Hill and Mason need to make convincing arguments that they can depended on to step up and be aggressive scoring the ball so they can get that pass from TP or Manu instead of watching them force the issue when its obvious they are struggling. This is going to take some recognition and action from both sides...and its something that takes TIME.

There is nothing wrong with this team offensively. Consistency, rhythm and an established comfort level with all our new and old players is the problem.

[z0sa]

Mason Jr needs 70% of Finley's shots.

Problem solved.

[rascal]

Your offense has to be geared toward your personnel. The Spurs run pick n roll, isos up top, Timmy in the block, and penetration (drive all the way or kick to 3 point shooters) because it suits who they have on the floor. They can't run a 7 seconds or less offense, because they don't have the horses for it.

When their offense gets stagnant is when Tony and Manu don't trust their teammates and go iso too much, when there's no movement in the motion offense, or when the 3 point shooters go dry.

But when it comes down to it, this offense is pretty good for the personnel that they have.


Then get a couple of horses that can finish in transition. Thats a source of easy points when the perimeter game is not clicking.

Thats one problem. The spurs don't get enough easy transistion points off long rebounds and turnovers.

The spurs don't target athletes who can finish to fill out their bench. Gist would have been a good transistion finisher and they send him off.

[rascal]

In their last ten wins, the Spurs are averaging 108.6 points per game.

In their last eight loss, the Spurs are averaging 80.6 points per game.

A "pathetic offense" isn't really the problem. Those numbers point to a lack of consistency.


Thats a big disparity and much of it has to do with the level of competition. The spurs don't play as well offensively against the better teams in the league.

[024]

spurs offense is very predictable. i can pretty much predict what's going to happen when the spurs run an offensive set. it's either drive and kick, drive and layup, pass it to duncan and duncan will proceed to shoot or pass, or pick and roll. nothing exactly wrong with it since this is an offense that has won championships but it has become very predictable that defenders can guess the players' actions. i think the reason behind this is the lack of a true point guard. parker needs to run popovich's offensive sets because he never really developed true point guard passing ability. again, nothing wrong with having a scoring point guard, it just limits the amount of creativity.

[Fabbs]

Your offense has to be geared toward your personnel. The Spurs run pick n roll, isos up top, Timmy in the block, and penetration (drive all the way or kick to 3 point shooters) because it suits who they have on the floor. They can't run a 7 seconds or less offense, because they don't have the horses for it.

When their offense gets stagnant is when Tony and Manu don't trust their teammates and go iso too much, when there's no movement in the motion offense, or when the 3 point shooters go dry.

But when it comes down to it, this offense is pretty good for the personnel that they have.
Mason, Hill, Ime, Bruce on timely occasions, heck even Finley could take it to the rack with regularity if the coach would tell them to do so. The coach most obviously doesn't, the Stand n Veg we so often employ has been caught up to by the league, esp since we've gone "small".


We have the personnell, we don't have an offensive coach.

[The Truth #6]

Our system is effective once it's learned, but I wouldn't say it's "user friendly". We've had scoring droughts since Pop has been a coach. I think it's a byproduct, for whatever reason, of the system.

Also, Pop is much more of a defensive coach. It seems like Pop considers offense as being somewhat random and at times uncontrollable, whereas defense is something that is exact and able to be managed.