Message to Tony: Pass the ball to Mason!!

[South Side Spurs Fan]

How many times have we heard Tony complaining in the past that he has a hard time racking up assists playing with Tim (who tends to dribble after the pass).

Tony, this is your opportunity to rack 'em up...put some trust in Roger Mason!!!

(Oh, and take a lesson or two from Hill's defense...)

Anybody else notice Tony "freezing out" Mason? Isn't it a bit suspicious that when Parker comes back, Mason's output tanks?

[Dex]

How many times have we heard Tony complaining in the past that he has a hard time racking up assists playing with Tim (who tends to dribble after the pass).


0?

[South Side Spurs Fan]

Granted, it might have been a season or two ago, but there was a time when Pop was pushing Tony to pick up his assists, which have always lagged. And Tony's excuse was that passing to Tim doesn't allow a high assist total.

I for one would like to see Tony pick his average up past seven, and become less of a "shoot-first" point guard.

Don't get me wrong though, it's nice to have his scoring when the rest of the team can't find the hole.

Regardless, pass the ball to Mason already!!! There's a reason Mason knocks 'em down when he plays with Hill and Manu: cause they're not afraid to pass him the damn ball.

[honestfool84]

cool.

[JPB]

Isn't it a bit suspicious that when Parker comes back, Mason's output tanks?

Manu ?

[Bambililos]

(Oh, and take a lesson or two from Hill's defense...)

Yeah, Tony, listen to him: grow your arms for God's sake!!!

[TDMVPDPOY]

this thread is co-signed by manu :D

he knows.....

[bobbybob0]

Yeah, Tony, listen to him: grow your arms for God's sake!!!

:lol

[South Side Spurs Fan]

Yeah, Tony, listen to him: grow your arms for God's sake!!!

Over the last four games, opposing teams PGs are averaging well over 50%. Jameer Nelson made Tony look Swiss.:whine

But it's not just arm length. How can Tony be the quickest guy on the offensive end, and get blistered on the defensive end?

[South Side Spurs Fan]

http://blogs.tampabay.com/80s/images/2007/11/16/meredith.jpg

"You gotta wan't it."

[stéphane]

Troll forum

[1Parker1]

What I don't understand from all these people who want Tony to "pass the ball more" or "become a pass-first point guard" is this; Do you even realize that he shoots over 50%from the field? He's not just your average shoot first point guard like AI, Arenas, etc. Spurs have enough trouble generating points as it is and if your PG can give you 20+ppg on over 50% shooting, you give him that. Not only that, but assists stats are dependent on whether the shooter actually then makes the shot.

[T Park]

Quit while your ahead, your giving us southside posters a bad name.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

What I don't understand from all these people who want Tony to "pass the ball more" or "become a pass-first point guard" is this; Do you even realize that he shoots over 50%from the field? He's not just your average shoot first point guard like AI, Arenas, etc. Spurs have enough trouble generating points as it is and if your PG can give you 20+ppg on over 50% shooting, you give him that. Not only that, but assists stats are dependent on whether the shooter actually then makes the shot.

:tu

And I'll add that he's become incredibly adept at passing out to the perimeter where the ball is swung around to create shot opportunities. In effect his penetration has the same result as 4 Down does with Tim. His efforts to get in the paint and unbalance the defense are what leaves the guy on the receiving end of the extra pass wide open. Doesn't show up in the stat sheet, but it starts with Parker.

[kace]

Granted, it might have been a season or two ago, but there was a time when Pop was pushing Tony to pick up his assists, which have always lagged. And Tony's excuse was that passing to Tim doesn't allow a high assist total.



Pop never asked tony to pass more. you're just embarrassing yourself trying to argue that.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

Do you even realize that he shoots over 50%from the field? Spurs have enough trouble generating points as it is and if your PG can give you 20+ppg on over 50% shooting, you give him that.

Not only that, but assists stats are dependent on whether the shooter actually then makes the shot.

Right on both points, and thats exactly what I eluded to in my first post.

BUT...as the point, you gotta get your other teamates going, or it turns into "watch the TP and TD show." This is a fine line Tony always has to walk...and I'll grant it's not an easy one. And for the record, if they just can't get it going, I have no problem with TP going for 55 again.

As to your second point, that is all the more reason to PASS MASON THE BALL!!!! That is what this thread is about...

[South Side Spurs Fan]

:lol
Pop never asked tony to pass more. you're just embarrassing yourself trying to argue that.

Why do you thinnk he gave Tony hell through his first few seasons? That's well documented...

Your just revealing yourself as a johnny come lately:lol

[td4mvp21]

I see Tony pass it A LOT and teammates miss their shots. Just sayin'.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

I see Tony pass it A LOT and teammates miss their shots. Just sayin'.

More reason to pass it to Mason...
at 45% of fg's and 47% of 3's:hat

[kace]

:lol

Why do you thinnk he gave Tony hell through his first few seasons? That's well documented...

Your just revealing yourself as a johnny come lately:lol


Pop never asked tony to pass more. that never happened.

and you're talking now about this shit happening in TP's first seasons when you were saying "a season or two ago" just in your previous post. :lol

stop embarrassing yourself.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Why must it be Tony to pass him the ball? I haven't been watching the Spurs as of late, but I'm pretty sure there's been an opportunity for someone else to give Mason the ball.

[cherylsteele]

:lol

Why do you thinnk he gave Tony hell through his first few seasons? That's well documented...

Your just revealing yourself as a johnny come lately:lol
It wasn't just passing he was getting hell for in the past, it was his all around decision making, which includes shooting and the "D" along with other intangibles.

Where do some of these posters come from anyways?

[td4mvp21]

Why must it be Tony to pass him the ball? I haven't been watching the Spurs as of late, but I'm pretty sure there's been an opportunity for someone else to give Mason the ball.

:lol :tu

[WalterBenitez]

this thread is co-signed by manu :D

he knows.....

and everyone not named Tim Duncan :wow

[z0sa]

While it makes me uncomfortable because we lost a couple games due primarily to scoring droughts, this actually IS Mason Jr's niche, and he's found it pretty nicely if you ask me. he wont ever dominate the ball.

[timaios]

The Spurs as a TEAM are the second best team in the league in Assist Ratio.
Utah is 1st... New Orleans is 11th !
Everyone is passing the ball in the Spurs system.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2893/spursastbp2.jpg

[South Side Spurs Fan]

[quote=cherylsteele;2978955] ...it was his all around decision making,...quote]

decision making includes when to pass/when to shoot.

Look I'm a Spurs fan since the early eighties. I rejoiced the day we got the draft rights to D-Rob. My first favorite Spurs player was Cummings (Anybody know who that was?). Not only that, I love TP. We wouldn't have the titles we do without him. So stop getting your panties in a bunch, TP-lovers.

The point is, I watch every game, and have seen 95% of the regular games since about 2003. That being said, I have noticed that Tony has passed up Mason's open looks since he came back from injury.

Maybe he doesn't trust him yet. Maybe I'm imagining things. But he needs to get him involved in our offensive attack.

When I first saw Mason, I was thinking the second coming of Captain Jack. I'm now realizing he has the chance to be better.

PASS HIM THE PILL, TP.
JUST DO IT.

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/353174.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193B3EA2C03450C94860E15FA77DD3A6292 284831B75F48EF45

[timvp]

Granted, it might have been a season or two ago, but there was a time when Pop was pushing Tony to pick up his assists, which have always lagged. And Tony's excuse was that passing to Tim doesn't allow a high assist total.Pop never asked TP to get more assists.


Regardless, pass the ball to Mason already!!! There's a reason Mason knocks 'em down when he plays with Hill and Manu: cause they're not afraid to pass him the damn ball.While I agree that Mason needs to get more minutes, more plays called for him and more shots, I think you are barking up the wrong tree. TP and Mason have played extremely well together since the first game of the season. Last time I checked, Mason was averaging 2+ point per game more per 48 minutes and shooting 10% better from the field with TP in the game compared to Hill. In fact, he's back in the starting lineup partly due to how well he plays with TP.

But yeah, it'd be nice if everyone, Pop included, would look to get him more involved on a daily basis. The Spurs aren't going to win a championship if they have to rely on someone like Michael Finley more than Mason.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

For those of you that don't believe Pop ever asked TP to raise his assist total, you may not know it but TP has only had the red light for the past 3 seasons or so.

Pop's views of PG's has changed over the years, especially with our pronounced need for scoring production and TP's ability to deliver. Before that, he wanted a true point. That's why he stuck with little general, and why Antonio Daniels got run out of town.

Irrelevant anyway. I have seen TP pass on the pass to Mason. With my own :wow. Over the last several games. Don't say it doesn't happen. I might believe you if I hadn't seen it with my own two :wow on my little purple face.

Even annoncers are saying Mason is having a hard time reacclimating with TP and Manu back in. But if you notice...AS SOON AS MASON IS IN WITH THE SECOND UNIT, HE'S ON FIRE.

PASS IT TP, PASS IT.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

Pop never asked TP to get more assists.

In fact, he's back in the starting lineup...

Me and Pop think alike...get Mason the ball.

[Kori Ellis]

Me and Pop think alike...get Mason the ball.

:lol Nice change of your quote.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

Yeah...I'm not really sold on Mason playing better with TP on the floor...I don't think he gets the ball in rythym, I don't think he has as many opportunities to get his shot going, and I think TP can remedy these two things.

So I don't agree with the second half of that sentence, Kori. I posted it by accident, but I'm glad it brings you some joy during the hoiday season.

[ehz33satx]

South Side Spurs fan = Roger Mason Jr. ~ identity revealed!

[South Side Spurs Fan]

South Side Spurs fan = Roger Mason Jr. ~ identity revealed!

(knowing he's been busted, slaps his hip and points heavenward...as he imagines himself averaging 20 if only Tony would PASS HIM THE ROCK!)

[HarlemHeat37]

Pop never asked TP to get more assists.

While I agree that Mason needs to get more minutes, more plays called for him and more shots, I think you are barking up the wrong tree. TP and Mason have played extremely well together since the first game of the season. Last time I checked, Mason was averaging 2+ point per game more per 48 minutes and shooting 10% better from the field with TP in the game compared to Hill. In fact, he's back in the starting lineup partly due to how well he plays with TP.

But yeah, it'd be nice if everyone, Pop included, would look to get him more involved on a daily basis. The Spurs aren't going to win a championship if they have to rely on someone like Michael Finley more than Mason.

100% agree..

the key here being plays ran for Mason..especially the play where he gets a screen up top, takes 1 dribble and pops a 3..he seems to never miss that, so I don't know why we don't run it for him more often when he needs a basket or 2 to get going..

[MarCowMar]

My impression is that Mason and TP get along better than most here believe.

I remember watching one of the games back when the Spurs were really struggling and they had a mic focused on Tony and Mason standing next to each other dribbling and talking. Mason said something along the lines of "we're really going to be deadly once we get it together" and Tony said "oh no doubt". Sorry I don't have the exact quote but just seeing that made me think these two are very much on the same page.

I think Mason's underuse is more due to Pop not knowing fully how to use him just yet, and also just the glut of talent we have at SG and SF. We basically have six guys who are arguably deserving of two starting spots: Mason, Manu, Hill, Bowen, Finley, Udoka. Hill of course can be used at PG but that still leaves five quality players to figure out roles for.

[Kori Ellis]

My impression is that Mason and TP get along better than most here believe.

I remember watching one of the games back when the Spurs were really struggling and they had a mic focused on Tony and Mason standing next to each other dribbling and talking. Mason said something along the lines of "we're really going to be deadly once we get it together" and Tony said "oh no doubt". Sorry I don't have the exact quote but just seeing that made me think these two are very much on the same page.

Yeah that was actually an awesome exchange.

I think Mason plays much better with Tony on the floor than without. I'm not doubting that Tony has missed Mason when he's been open on occasion, but I think they are getting to be more in sync than out. To start the year, they really played well together.

[hater]

Mason said "we gonna be a beast..."

like his confidence but have yet to see it

[1Parker1]

Right on both points, and thats exactly what I eluded to in my first post.

BUT...as the point, you gotta get your other teamates going, or it turns into "watch the TP and TD show." This is a fine line Tony always has to walk...and I'll grant it's not an easy one. And for the record, if they just can't get it going, I have no problem with TP going for 55 again.

As to your second point, that is all the more reason to PASS MASON THE BALL!!!! That is what this thread is about...

Mason was shooting well under 50% for the past month, month and a half. You're telling me you still think that's all the more reason to PASS MASON THE BALL?! I'll give you that, Pop should probably run a few more plays for Mason to get him going, but the fact remains, at the end of the day, if Mason is going to be shooting 40-45% from the field, I'd rather Parker be taking the shots. Mason should not have more shot attempts than the Big 3.

And Parker does get his teammates going. When he gets into the lane and the defense collapses and he swings the ball to the perimeter and then someone else passes it to the other open shooter, he's not going to get the credit for the assist. You are speaking as if Parker attemps 20 shots ppg or something. :wtf

[The Truth #6]

I don't think it's realistic or beneficial to expect or want Tony to change. He's quite successful in the way he plays. I don't think he needs to pass more because he's a great offensive player, and with our constant tendency to go into droughts, we should work to keep our best scorer at the top of his game.

Having said that, Tony does need to dominate the ball to get into his rhythm. I think Mason also plays better when he has the ball in his hand more. I'm not saying Mason should share point guard duties, but I do think it behooves the team to let Mason get his hands on the rock a little bit more here and there to play a two man game with either Tim, Bonner, or Kurt.

This isn't the worst problem to have. And I don't think it's up to Tony to involve Mason more, I think it's Pop's decision to do so with what plays he calls.

So though people want to get angry at Tony, we should probably keep in mind that Pop is still in control of what goes on out there.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

Pop never asked TP to get more assists.

Last time I checked, Mason was averaging 2+ point per game more per 48 minutes and shooting 10% better from the field with TP in the game compared to Hill.



Looked it up...and you couldn't be more wrong.
Mason and Hill on the floor: +/- of 52.
Mason and Parker: +/- of 28.
:nope

Proves my point.

[cherylsteele]

...it was his all around decision making,...

decision making includes when to pass/when to shoot.

Look I'm a Spurs fan since the early eighties. I rejoiced the day we got the draft rights to D-Rob. My first favorite Spurs player was Cummings (Anybody know who that was?). Not only that, I love TP. We wouldn't have the titles we do without him. So stop getting your panties in a bunch, TP-lovers.

The point is, I watch every game, and have seen 95% of the regular games since about 2003. That being said, I have noticed that Tony has passed up Mason's open looks since he came back from injury.

Maybe he doesn't trust him yet. Maybe I'm imagining things. But he needs to get him involved in our offensive attack.

When I first saw Mason, I was thinking the second coming of Captain Jack. I'm now realizing he has the chance to be better.

PASS HIM THE PILL, TP.
JUST DO IT.

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/353174.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193B3EA2C03450C94860E15FA77DD3A6292 284831B75F48EF45
I did say that about TP in the quote you PARTIALLY used.
In your original post you only mentioned passing to RJM, not shooting or any other intangibles.

Are you actually comparing RJM to James Silas? That is just plain premature at the moment....actually his nickname is Captian Late, for his lat game heroics.

You have been a fan since the early 80's but yet only started watching the majority of games since 2003? What a fan.:rolleyes

I have been watching most games since the early 90's, when they started showing them all on cable, before that saw many games at HemisFair Arena in the $5.00 nosebleed seats.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

Mason was shooting well under 50% for the past month, month and a half. You're telling me you still think that's all the more reason to PASS MASON THE BALL?! I'll give you that, Pop should probably run a few more plays for Mason to get him going, but the fact remains, at the end of the day, if Mason is going to be shooting 40-45% from the field, I'd rather Parker be taking the shots. Mason should not have more shot attempts than the Big 3.

And Parker does get his teammates going. When he gets into the lane and the defense collapses and he swings the ball to the perimeter and then someone else passes it to the other open shooter, he's not going to get the credit for the assist. You are speaking as if Parker attemps 20 shots ppg or something. :wtf

TP averages 17 for the season.

And I'm not saying Mason should take more shots than the big three, but he's shown that he's got the heart of a killer, with clutch shooting, and if we are going to get the :lobt2:this year we should get this guy consistently involved in the offense. TP can help with that, and he needs to do that.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

I did say that about TP in the quote you PARTIALLY used.
In your original post you only mentioned passing to RJM, not shooting or any other intangibles.

Are you actually comparing RJM to James Silas? That is just plain premature at the moment....actually his nickname is Captian Late, for his lat game heroics.

You have been a fan since the early 80's but yet only started watching the majority of games since 2003? What a fan.:rolleyes

I have been watching most games since the early 90's, when they started showing them all on cable, before that saw many games at HemisFair Arena in the $5.00 nosebleed seats.

Then how do not know who Captain Jack is? Dude, you gotta learn your spurs history...it's not Silas.

Get busy...

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

TP can help with that, and he needs to do that.

And the others can't?

[South Side Spurs Fan]

Here's a hint...

Timmy called him the best teamate ever.

[cherylsteele]

Then how do not know who Captain Jack is? Dude, you gotta learn your spurs history...it's not Silas.

Get busy...
Well then who is it....since you know it all.
Are you talking about SJAX who was known as buckets? I never heard anyone call him Capt Jack before.

If it is the case maybe, RJM is not the slasher SJax was/is.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

PG's run the offense, call the plays, and have the option of passing out at the last second to an open roger mason before they get their shot sent into the stands...

I love TP, but it's the truth!!!

[South Side Spurs Fan]

Well then who is it....since you know it all.
Are you talking about SJAX who was known as buckets? I never heard anyone call him Capt Jack before.

If it is the case maybe, RJM is not the slasher SJax was/is.

I agree, but my favorite part of SJ's game was his clutch shooting and D. I think Mason has shown he can do both these things on par or better than SJ, without the trips to the strip club.

[cherylsteele]

I agree, but my favorite part of SJ's game was his clutch shooting and D. I think Mason has shown he can do both these things on par or better than SJ, without the trips to the strip club.
SJax could post other guards up, RMJ has not shown that ability as of yet.
He is not as clutch yet, he could be, time will tell.

The one thing that bugs me about RMJ is his dependency on the 3-ball, he doesn't drive the lane as much as he needs to, something SJax did better.

[cherylsteele]

PG's run the offense, call the plays, and have the option of passing out at the last second to an open roger mason before they get their shot sent into the stands...

I love TP, but it's the truth!!!
The problem with your posts is you imply that RMJ is the only other player on the Spurs. Don't forget we Bonner, Manu, Bowen, Finley, Hill on the perimeter as well, not to mention Timmy who is around the basket as well for an easy 2. Actually RMJ's shooting % has seemed to fall off the last few games even though he has been open.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

PG's run the offense, call the plays, and have the option of passing out at the last second to an open roger mason before they get their shot sent into the stands...

I love TP, but it's the truth!!!

So your proposal is the Spurs to run out the clock and pass it to Mason, assuming he's gonna be open everytime?
Genius.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

SJax could post other guards up, RMJ has not shown that ability as of yet.
He is not as clutch yet, he could be, time will tell.

The one thing that bugs me about RMJ is his dependency on the 3-ball, he doesn't drive the lane as much as he needs to, something SJax did better.

I think the spurs as whole need to rely less on the three than they do, and get more offense from other areas, so I agree...but I do feel this is coming from the coaching staff's gameplan.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

So your proposal is the Spurs to run out the clock and pass it to Mason, assuming he's gonna be open everytime?
Genius.

No what I'm saying is Parker needs to get blocked less, and accumulate assists with more last second passes out of the lane to Mason.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

The problem with your posts is you imply that RMJ is the only other player on the Spurs. Don't forget we Bonner, Manu, Bowen, Finley, Hill on the perimeter as well, not to mention Timmy who is around the basket as well for an easy 2. Actually RMJ's shooting % has seemed to fall off the last few games even though he has been open.

As far as I've seen, RM is the one struggling who's struggling to find his way since TP is back.

I think the reality is TP has struggled to get RM involved IN RYTHM. And that is the part that needs to be addressed...

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

No what I'm saying is Parker needs to get blocked less.
When you're a slasher like Tony, blocks are inevitable.

, and accumulate assists.
Why must it be assists? What's the problem with him just scoring if he's already in the lane? He passes out of the lane enough as it is.

with more last second passes out of the lane to Mason.
Why must it be Mason? We have other 3 point shooters who can shoot it from the corner. An even better one in Bruce.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

When you're a slasher like Tony, blocks are inevitable.

Why must it be assists? What's the problem with him just scoring if he's already in the lane? He passes out of the lane enough as it is.

Why must it be Mason? We have other 3 point shooters who can shoot it from the corner. An even better one in Bruce.

1) Tony has to lead the league in shots blocked in the lane...if you watch the games you know this is true...

2) a blocked shot is not an assist, and an assist is better than getting pinned. When the other team has no interior D, TP can score in massive quantities, but when they do, he spends all night on his back.

3) Mason is the most promising outside shooter for the time being (if we get him in rythm): Bruce dissapeared last year late...Finley takes several weeks off at a time...and Mason is a killer.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

1) Tony has to lead the league in shots blocked in the lane...if you watch the games you know this is true....
I'll believe when you give me a link to the stat.

2) a blocked shot is not an assist, and an assist is better than getting pinned. When the other team has no interior D, TP can score in massive quantities, but when they do, he spends all night on his back..
This isn't 03 Tony. He has a jumpshot now.

3) Mason is the most promising outside shooter for the time being (if we get him in rythm): Bruce dissapeared last year late...Finley takes several weeks off at a time...and Mason is a killer.
And let's just say what if, Mason isn't in the corner? What now?

[z0sa]

Mason jr definitely needs more minutes and shots, and the balls needs to be in his hands probably 2-3 more possessions a game, EARLY in the shot clock.

But Tony is not the one holding Mason jr down. You can thank Pop for that; his insatiable love for Finley has caused this. Surprisingly, RMJr's still coming in and getting double digits every game, rebounding well, and playing smart D. I hope Pop sees Mason jr is the future and continues to up his minutes.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

I'll believe when you give me a link to the stat.

This isn't 03 Tony. He has a jumpshot now.

And let's just say what if, Mason isn't in the corner? What now?

I looked...that stat is not kept as far as I can tell...

If Tony is open, let him shoot...

Mason shoots a nice three from the top of the arc. I say pass it to the open man. But I think Tony, if given the choice early in the game, has the choice between driving and getting his shooters involved and hot (not just Mason) he needs to get them involved.

His drive will be there, but shooters need to shoot to find their stroke...

If they can't then we know who we're going to in the fourth (tony)
If they can, then tony sits in the fourth, along with the whole first team, cuz its a blowout.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Mason shoots a nice three from the top of the arc. I say pass it to the open man. But I think Tony, if given the choice early in the game, has the choice between driving and getting his shooters involved and hot (not just Mason) he needs to get them involved.

His drive will be there, but shooters need to shoot to find their stroke...

If they can't then we know who we're going to in the fourth (tony)
If they can, then tony sits in the fourth, along with the whole first team, cuz its a blowout.

So you're saying if Tony is open or capable of making the layup, he should go for it. If he's not then he should pass it to the open man(not just Mason even though you've been using his name throughout the thread).
This isn't anything we didn't know before.

[kace]

I looked...that stat is not kept as far as I can tell...

If Tony is open, let him shoot...

Mason shoots a nice three from the top of the arc. I say pass it to the open man. But I think Tony, if given the choice early in the game, has the choice between driving and getting his shooters involved and hot (not just Mason) he needs to get them involved.

His drive will be there, but shooters need to shoot to find their stroke...

If they can't then we know who we're going to in the fourth (tony)
If they can, then tony sits in the fourth, along with the whole first team, cuz its a blowout.

you're still here ?
where are the quotes from Pop saying that Tony needs to pass more. I'm waiting ??

[South Side Spurs Fan]

you're still here ?
where are the quotes from Pop saying that Tony needs to pass more. I'm waiting ??

Yeah, I looked, and couldn't find them.

Do you remember Antonio Daniels? He was traded because he was a shoot first PG. Tony would not still be here if Kidd had chosen us, because Pop always wanted a true PG.

Pop has adapted his style (and demands) over the last few seasons, and we're still winning, so no one is complaining including me...

[South Side Spurs Fan]

So you're saying if Tony is open or capable of making the layup, he should go for it. If he's not then he should pass it to the open man(not just Mason even though you've been using his name throughout the thread).
This isn't anything we didn't know before.

I have watched Mason struggle, and I'm saying TP needs to make sure that all our best weapons are being used as effectively as possible...I've also seen him choose his lay up over Mason wide open at the three point line frequently over the past few (while mason has struggled) many times to a blocked result

[timvp]

Looked it up...and you couldn't be more wrong.
Mason and Hill on the floor: +/- of 52.
Mason and Parker: +/- of 28.
:nope

Proves my point.:lol You obviously don't know what +/- means.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

:lol You obviously don't know what +/- means.

Pleases explain how these stats supports your contention, timvp.

I'll be waiting:wakeup

[anakha]

This thread insults my intelligence.

[timvp]

Pleases explain how these stats supports your contention, timvp.

I'll be waiting:wakeupIt doesn't support or go against any claim in this thread.

[kace]

i really think adding the age of the members would be a good thing for the forum. IMHO.

i mean i really enjoy being there, but i wonder sometimes if i don't lose my time arguing with some kids. i could understand kids having such "stupid" and weird argumentation but i would certainly not lose my time answering then.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

i really think adding the age of the members would be a good thing for the forum. IMHO.

i mean i really enjoy being there, but i wonder sometimes if i don't lose my time arguing with some kids. i could understand kids having such "stupid" and weird argumentation but i would certainly not lose my time answering then.

argumentation=not a word.
Try "arguments" in it's place.
Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house, eh?

[South Side Spurs Fan]

It doesn't support or go against any claim in this thread.

truth is, they support the contention that Hill/Mason have been more effective together than Parker/mason.

I said that, about two pages ago...

[anakha]

argumentation=not a word.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/argumentation



ar⋅gu⋅men⋅ta⋅tion   /ˌɑrgyəmɛnˈteɪʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ahr-gyuh-men-tey-shuhn]

–noun 1. the process of developing or presenting an argument; reasoning.
2. discussion; debate; disputation: The lengthy argumentation tired many listeners.
3. a discussion dealing with a controversial point.
4. the setting forth of reasons together with the conclusion drawn from them.
5. the premises and conclusion so set forth.
6. argument (def. 5).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1400–50; late ME argumentacioun (< MF) < L argūmentātiōn- (s. of argūmentātiō). See argument, -ation


You were saying?

[hater]

:lol this thread is an embarrasment to the forum. Kinda like a crackhead is an embarrasment to the neighborhood

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I have watched Mason struggle, and I'm saying TP needs to make sure that all our best weapons are being used as effectively as possible...I've also seen him choose his lay up over Mason wide open at the three point line frequently over the past few (while mason has struggled) many times to a blocked result

You're saying he needs to make sure that he makes the right decision every time and make the ball goes to the right person. Well no shit, that's what every player tries to do. Is that your way of saying he's hogging the ball?

[kace]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/argumentation



You were saying?

:lol

PS: i clearly can make mistakes since english isn't my mother tongue. pointing it seems a lame thing but when the basher is wrong, it's just embarrassing for him.

[stéphane]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/argumentation



You were saying?

:lmao Now that's embarassing...

[South Side Spurs Fan]

Definition of Argumentation: A useless modification of a perfectly good noun, to be used by pretentious speakers who strive to appear more intelligent than they actually are, even when "arguments" works just as well.

In the context of Spurstalk...may be used by non-native english speakers, who are irrationally entrenched in their support of a countryman, in an attempted display of their respective mastery of the English language...even though that effort is undermined by use of unusual phrases like "lose my time," and base, generic third grade adjectives such as "weird" and "stupid."

[South Side Spurs Fan]

I began this thread in hopes that the topic might spark an interesting discussion. Instead, the Tony Parker fan club (The TP Pink Ladies?) has taken over the thread, and intelligent input has been the exception.

Time to watch the game, Pink Ladies!!!! Let's see how many times TP assists Mason tonight; I'm keeping count!

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Definition of Argumentation: A useless modification of a perfectly good noun, to be used by pretentious speakers who strive to appear more intelligent than they actually are, even when "arguments" works just as well.

In the context of Spurstalk...may be used by non-native english speakers, who are irrationally entrenched in their support of a countryman, in an attempted display of their respective mastery of the English language...even though that effort is undermined by use of unusual phrases like "lose my time," and base, generic third grade adjectives such as "weird" and "stupid."

So then you admit it's a word. I mean, you just typed the definition.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

Admitted.
Gotta go.
Tip-off!!!!!

[jcrod]

Just do a search for TP on this forum. There is an unknowledgable poster like you every other week. Everybody gets tired of explaining TP's important role on this team.

[John_C]

Tony do tend to dribble the ball so much, using up almost half of the shot clock because he is looking mostly to score first.

Look at him with Ginobili on the court and you'll see that Ginobili is often left stoning, even when open, because Parker is dribbling so much. Not only Ginobili but even Duncan at times.

I love Tony specially when he gets hot but he could be a better distributor also if he puts his mind to it. The only way for Tony to really increase his assist is either the Spurs become a better motion offensive team, or Tony looks more to pass than score most of the time.

[anakha]

Admitted.
Gotta go.
Tip-off!!!!!

I thought argumentation wasn't a word?

Next time, try to have a clue about what you're spouting off on. Thanks.

[Brazil]

I'm tired of all these fucking TP threads. I beg u create 4 threads in the troll forum: TP sucks / trade TP / TP is selfish and TP doesn't like Mase and Manu. AND GTFOH

[South Side Spurs Fan]

Message to Fans who are Infatuated with TP:
This thread is all about getting Mason into the flow iof the offense.
It's not an I hate TP thread.
I dig TP. He's great. But lets get some Mason on the stat sheet.
(though I am begining to hate Tony Parker Fanatics...who don't read before they start getting defensive)

[South Side Spurs Fan]

I'm tired of all these fucking TP threads. I beg u create 4 threads in the troll forum: TP sucks / trade TP / TP is selfish and TP doesn't like Mase and Manu. AND GTFOH

Please read the above post...and know that its pointed right at you:toast

[Brazil]

(Oh, and take a lesson or two from Hill's defense...)

Anybody else notice Tony "freezing out" Mason? Isn't it a bit suspicious that when Parker comes back, Mason's output tanks?

[South Side Spurs Fan]

I love Tony. But all that is the truth.

I love tim, but he could try a little harder sometimes on help defense.

I love Manu, but he turns it over to much.

As a spurs fan since the mid eighties, I can rag on my team when I get the inclination.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

all that said, I feel like mason is the ferrari in the garage, that tony has yet to drive.

[Brazil]

South side we have dozen of threads for complaining something about TP game we don't need one in particular about passing the ball to Mase. Mase is much better when Tony plays, both are playing great together. What do you expect besides that ? I don't get you, since last year TP has improved his ppg by 3 pts and his assists by 1 or 2, his FG% is still good, he is the scoring leader and sorry but IMO he is defending well. Now he made some very bad games : true, he can improve his defense : true, sometimes he made bad decisions : true but it's also true for everybody. You gonna create a thread on TD being soft sometimes ? Manu TO's ? Pop stuborn ? Finley being Finley ? Hill inconsistency ?

[South Side Spurs Fan]

No I just want Mason to become a major part of this offense, and I'm asking TP to help out.

Does that make sense?

[anakha]

Anybody else notice Tony "freezing out" Mason? Isn't it a bit suspicious that when Parker comes back, Mason's output tanks?


No I just want Mason to become a major part of this offense, and I'm asking TP to help out.

Does that make sense?

Then don't throw around accusations of 'freezing out'.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

I think sometimes thats the case.

Think about this: Tony went through hell as a young player playing with pop. That is well documented. I think sometimes he wants the new guys to have to prove their worth before he treats them as an equal to the big three.

I think he might resent Pop's new gentler kinder approach (which I think pop developed after he ruined Beno), and I think ths resentment might lead him to freeze out certain new players.

And while thats my theory, and I do believe I have seen it happen, I think Mason has the potential to help our team at some point down the road when the big three need him the most.

[amy020]

As a PG,TP made 17 shooting attempts,also 6 turnovers.the rest of the teammates had at most 9 attempts. . If we keep playing like this ,we will surely loss when it comes to some good teams like hornets.

[stéphane]

In the context of Spurstalk...may be used by non-native english speakers, who are irrationally entrenched in their support of a countryman, in an attempted display of their respective mastery of the English language...even though that effort is undermined by use of unusual phrases like "lose my time," and base, generic third grade adjectives such as "weird" and "stupid."

Ok now you're seriously being an asshole. You've been here for 2days and you already know everybody hehe :rolleyes Ok maybe I'm not old enough to have witnessed the iceman's smooth fingerolls and stuff but I've been here daily for four years and been a spurs fan since the early 90s. So quit insulting foreign fans because they can do some language mistakes. You're just being xenophobic.
Wether it's argentinians, french or anything most of us are spurs fan. When you'll be able to speak french as well as I speak english we'll have an argument ok?

[mathbzh]

Disclaimer: I am French, I don't try to "display of my mastery of the English language". I just write the English I know... and it is limited.

Parker had 6 assist tonight:

Mason Jump Shot: Made (2 PTS)
Assist: Parker (1 AST)

Bonner 3pt Shot: Made (3 PTS)
Assist: Parker (2 AST)

Mason 3pt Shot: Made (8 PTS)
Assist: Parker (3 AST)

Bonner Jump Shot: Made (9 PTS)
Assist: Parker (4 AST)

Mason Jump Shot: Made (11 PTS)
Assist: Parker (5 AST)

Duncan Jump Bank Shot: Made (8 PTS)
Assist: Parker (6 AST)

3 of them for Mason... Parker may pass on an opportunity here and there but it does not look like he refuses to pass him the ball. You can argue Tony should pass more but why do you focus on Mason?

[Rogue]

Mason doesn't need someone to pass him the ball 'cause he can get the ball by himself. Grab the defensive rebound and then run to the front court with the ball. Mason is more capable in dribbling than JV who is considered to be a PG.

[diego]

somebody should youtube the roger mason segment they had on the broadcast last night (before the end of the half.. i left to watch a movie after that) ... every basket mason scored was off a pass from TP

[Kori Ellis]

I think sometimes thats the case.

Think about this: Tony went through hell as a young player playing with pop. That is well documented. I think sometimes he wants the new guys to have to prove their worth before he treats them as an equal to the big three.

I think he might resent Pop's new gentler kinder approach (which I think pop developed after he ruined Beno), and I think ths resentment might lead him to freeze out certain new players.

And while thats my theory, and I do believe I have seen it happen, I think Mason has the potential to help our team at some point down the road when the big three need him the most.

You are just pulling weird stuff out of nowhere now. You actually think Tony resent Pop for being nice to people? And you actually think Pop was mean to Beno?

:rolleyes

[Kori Ellis]

In the context of Spurstalk...may be used by non-native english speakers, who are irrationally entrenched in their support of a countryman, in an attempted display of their respective mastery of the English language...even though that effort is undermined by use of unusual phrases like "lose my time," and base, generic third grade adjectives such as "weird" and "stupid."

This stuff isn't necessary at all. Simmer down or your Spurstalk time (under this user name) will be short.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

You are just pulling weird stuff out of nowhere now. You actually think Tony resent Pop for being nice to people? And you actually think Pop was mean to Beno?

:rolleyes

Yeah, Pop questioned Beno's manhood time and again when Beno was hurt. Warranted or not.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

This stuff isn't necessary at all. Simmer down or your Spurstalk time (under this user name) will be short.

Sorry but someone above set me off when they said the exact same thing about me (non-native english speaker). I wonder if you took the time to correct them also???

[Sigz]

Pass it to Pop Tony.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

:lol

PS: i clearly can make mistakes since english isn't my mother tongue. pointing it seems a lame thing but when the basher is wrong, it's just embarrassing for him.

see this quote.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

You are just pulling weird stuff out of nowhere now. You actually think Tony resent Pop for being nice to people? And you actually think Pop was mean to Beno?

:rolleyes

Parker actually said as much earlier in the year (I think it was during or shortly after training camp). He said it in jest, but he did say Pop is going easy on Hill. I viewed that interview on mysanantonio.com. I can't find it now, but you might.

I think it makes sense that Hill would find Pop's favor alot faster than the young Parker, because Hill knows how to defend, and Pop loves D.

And I don't think TP resents Pop, but he may be a little more reluctant to help a rookie shine if the rookie in question hasn't earned his stripes. That concept has been inherent in team sports since, well since they began.

All that being said, last night Parker found Mason early and often in the first (though every pass didn't result in a shot). I think I may have misconstrued several possessions over the last few games as "freezing out," when in fact TP just likes to shoot as much as possible.

Either that, or he got my message.

[Kori Ellis]

Parker actually said as much earlier in the year (I think it was during or shortly after training camp). He said it in jest, but he did say Pop is going easy on Hill. I viewed that interview on mysanantonio.com. I can't find it now, but you might.

I was there. The reporter ask him as a joke and Tony responded as a joke.

[CubanMustGo]

I was there. The reporter ask him as a joke and Tony responded as a joke.

Oh SNAP!!

[South Side Spurs Fan]

Parker actually said as much earlier in the year (I think it was during or shortly after training camp). He said it in jest, but he did say Pop is going easy on Hill...

As I said. And I didn't have to be there:hat

But I don't think that making rookies and first year players earn their stripes before they become prominent in the attack is all that hard to believe.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

And to add a touch to that, I think doing that with Mason (though he's not a rookie, he hasn't "earned his stripes with us) would be a mistake.

[Blake]

Last night's game:


Tony: 6 turnovers

Beno: 6 steals

I'm not saying there might be a correlation here, but what I'm saying is that there might be a correlation here. just sayin...

[Kori Ellis]

Last night's game:

Beno got 3 off Tony, 2 off Hill and one off Mason.

[Blake]

yeah, I know. Just thought it was semi-funny.

excuse me while I go chuckle to myself in a corner.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol @ this thread and every other ZOMG Roger Mason have my first baby threads.

One of these 2 players is an all star. One is not. Game over

[South Side Spurs Fan]

:lol @ this thread and every other ZOMG Roger Mason have my first baby threads.

One of these 2 players is an all star. One is not. Game over

Game not over!

[Quoted from another forum:]
So some fans say: Tony has the best FG%, why not let him get most of the shots?

The problem with this view:
If it is predetermined that TP will get most of the shot attempts, others will suffer. They won't be contributing as much, they won't be as confident at season's end. That is inevitable.

So you say:
But TP is shooting a great percentage, if he takes all the shots, we win regardless.

I say:
WE WILL WIN MOST GAMES, BUT WE WON'T WIN A TITLE THAT WAY. WE ARE ESPECIALLY VULNERABLE WHEN WE PLAY TEAMS WITH STRONG INTERIOR DEFENSE, AND WE LOSE OPTION 1 AND 2 (Tim and Tony). Tony can't drive, and Tim can't create points on the block or in the lane. This has happened lately (Orlando, Hornets), and it almost got us against NO last year. Then where do we go?

Well, the immediate answer would be Tony's jump shot and Manu. But with Manu's ailing ankle last year, and Tony's jump shot a little less reliable than advertised (lookin'good this year so far, I must say), didn't we see our options dwindle, and didn't we fall short as a result?

And what of all these role players who have stood and watched Tony for 80% of the season (during those games where we played teams without interior D)? At this point they've been under-utilized and have little to contribute (see Udoka last year late). These guys need to be integrated into the attack, so that when option 1 and option 2 fail, we have guys who are confident in executing the offense and stepping up and taking a shot. Not everyone is going to respond like Steve Kerr in the Dallas series after riding pine all season.

What does this mean? It means 80% of the time, we can win with the big three exclusively, or a big two even. But without effective role players, we won't win the title (you already knew that). BUT THOSE ROLE PLAYERS NEED TO BE INTEGRATED OVER THE ENTIRE SEASON, SO THEY ARE IN PLACE BY SEASON'S END, AND THAT MEANS TONY NEEDS TO DEFER JUST ENOUGH TO GET THEM 6-10 SHOTS A GAME.

ITS CALLED MAKING THE PLAYERS AROUND YOU BETTER!!!!! (maybe you've heard the phrase).

[MannyIsGod]

Its called you know jack shit about basketball and it is apparent by the topic of this thread. You know even less about Spurs basketball than you do about all other forms of basketball.

Game. Over.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

Its called you know jack shit about basketball and it is apparent by the topic of this thread. You know even less about Spurs basketball than you do about all other forms of basketball.

Game. Over.

Nice reply. Get personal when you cant make a go of the debate. Sounds like somebody here is displaying their lack of knowledge on the topic, just seems like it might be you rather than me:toast

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

Debate? You think you and your 48 posts are coming in here with new terrirtory that has never been discussed? There is nearly a daily "Tony pass to X" thread or "Tony pass more" thread. Its ridiculous. There's no need to debate the same thing over and over and over again with each new ignorant poster that registers.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh and LOL @ your PM.


I'm sorry I didn't sit here and hit refresh every second to respond to your next moronic post.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

:lmao

Debate? You think you and your 48 posts are coming in here with new terrirtory that has never been discussed? There is nearly a daily "Tony pass to X" thread or "Tony pass more" thread. Its ridiculous. There's no need to debate the same thing over and over and over again with each new ignorant poster that registers.

Just because someone hasn't posted here before yesterday doesn't mean they haven't been a fan for 20+ years. You assume too much.

You fancy yourself as the GM of this Forum or what? And just becuase the debate has been had before doesn't mean it has been waged well. Fact is, 1 post, or 1000, I'm right on this one.

I'll give you this: many people express their hate for TP on this board...I've seen it. But if you can distinguish the difference between those posters and my posts (it takes a little effort, especially if your slow on the uptake) then you may realize this is actually a different topic alltogether from the typical "TP Pass the Ball" thread.

Maybe I should have left TP out of the title, but I still say he's the man for the job.

And your still a clown.:hat

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

And you're still a clown.:hat

Fixed.
Your point is still redundant though.

[anakha]

:lmao at the OP accusing Parker of freezing out players then backpedaling and saying he's not a Parker hater.

[anakha]

Sorry but someone above set me off when they said the exact same thing about me (non-native english speaker). I wonder if you took the time to correct them also???

Then don't presume to know more about the English language than other posters.

[spursfan09]

you know I see/ read threads like this about TP, but shit. he's like the only bright spot on this team. He is just working himself into game shape. He's still playing well, but there are other players who can play better as well. Ya Matt bonner has been a surprise, but I hated the way he performed in the big games the Spurs just had.

[Brazil]

Just because someone hasn't posted here before yesterday doesn't mean they haven't been a fan for 20+ years. You assume too much.

You fancy yourself as the GM of this Forum or what? And just becuase the debate has been had before doesn't mean it has been waged well. Fact is, 1 post, or 1000, I'm right on this one.

I'll give you this: many people express their hate for TP on this board...I've seen it. But if you can distinguish the difference between those posters and my posts (it takes a little effort, especially if your slow on the uptake) then you may realize this is actually a different topic alltogether from the typical "TP Pass the Ball" thread.

Maybe I should have left TP out of the title, but I still say he's the man for the job.

And your still a clown.:hat

:sleep come on now you are the good guy that loves TP. :lol

By the way if you can correct my english I would be grateful, if you want I can help you to improve your french, spanish or portuguese.

[Brodels]

You responded to this:


Last time I checked, Mason was averaging 2+ point per game more per 48 minutes and shooting 10% better from the field with TP in the game compared to Hill. In fact, he's back in the starting lineup partly due to how well he plays with TP.

with this:


Looked it up...and you couldn't be more wrong.
Mason and Hill on the floor: +/- of 52.
Mason and Parker: +/- of 28.


Proves my point.

That doesn't even make sense. And you're ripping on people because of their language skills?

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Go away.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

:lmao at the OP accusing Parker of freezing out players then backpedaling and saying he's not a Parker hater.

He's helped us win titles, he can freeze out a player if he wants. Hes earned my respect.

But it doesnt help us in the long run.

Dont put words in my mouth little girl...

[South Side Spurs Fan]

:sleep come on now you are the good guy that loves TP. :lol

By the way if you can correct my english I would be grateful, if you want I can help you to improve your french, spanish or portuguese.

see the above response...

Thanks for the offer.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

That doesn't even make sense. And you're ripping on people because of their language skills?

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Go away.

That was in support of MY CONTENTION that Mason plays well with Hill, better than with parker. And this stat proves that they have had more success on the court.

And I think I'll stick around, thanks. :downspin:

[T Park]

:lmao

God, god back to spursreport for the love of god...

[anakha]

Dont put words in my mouth little girl...



Anybody else notice Tony "freezing out" Mason? Isn't it a bit suspicious that when Parker comes back, Mason's output tanks?

:lmao :lmao :lmao

Try to keep track of the bullshit you're spewing. You're getting yourself caught in your own backpedaling.

[mathbzh]

Roger Mason

Which comes first? Tony’s penetration, or your three-pointers? - “Tony’s penetration has yielded three championships, so we’ll let that develop. When teams want to try to turn their attention to him, I am there for him.”



[/thread]

[JPB]

Tony do tend to dribble the ball so much, using up almost half of the shot clock because he is looking mostly to score first.

It's called putting a system in place.
Ever heard about other teams admiring spurs execution ?
Watch the other players when TP is dribbling and you'll understand.

Spurs offense's never been a "7 seconds or less" one. He's dribbling the ball waiting for everybody to be at his spot so the execution can start.

It's true he's often looking for his shot but waiting a bit allows to have other alternatives thanks to the setting of the system. He's also waiting for the screens that initiate that system.

That's the way spurs offense work since a while now : TP attacking the rim + Tim at the post, both opening the floor for the threes shooters (+ Manu's genius naturally).

That couldn't be possible with Tony starting plays to early in the possession.

[Kobayagi]

bump :toast

[usckk]

Lol!

[Slydragon]

bump :toast

Perfect bump

[mathbzh]

:toast

[lefty]

Perfect bump

I agree

[SequSpur]

I'm sequspur and I approve this message.

[T Park]

[/thread]


Go look back at the top of the thread and read Mason's response.

[SpursIndonesia]

Can the OP atleast have the audacity to admit his mistake regarding his moronic view of TP-Mason chemistry on the court ? Ridiculous.

[Sissiborgo]

Damn Mason did a good job in the end!! Loved it :fro

[Sissiborgo]

Tim is doing a good job even though he's dribbling the ball

[jag]

I dont understand why so many people seem to have a problem with "Tony dribbling the ball around too much." He's the Point Guard, he was to wait for things to develop within the offense.

One thing Steve Nash is constantly praised for is his how long he keeps his dribble when Phoenix is in their half-court offense.

[TDMVPDPOY]

this is how the offense is run

defensive rebound, either dribble the ball up urself, or pass it to TP and watch him run down court....if the offense is not set, he either shoots or pass it out.

inbound pass will dribble downcourt slowly and setup play and pass, tp will not hog it here.

i still prefer to see duncan dribble down court go COAST-2-COAST every possession.

[pawe]

Roger Mason with the clutch three again.
They gotta get him more involved in the offense.

[Lady M]

message to Tim : pass the ball to junior :D