Houston Yaos at Cleveland Lebrons Game Thread [Archive]

JoeTait75

12-23-2008, 07:19 PM

Houston, like Denver, is a team that usually matches up well with us. But they're on the 2nd night of a b-2-b. Pretty sure Rafer Alston will play tonight. We're not going 41-0 at the Q this year, and the Rox are always tough. Wouldn't shock me or dismay me too much to see an L tonight.

Spur-Addict

12-23-2008, 07:20 PM

I was wondering if anyone would start a thread for this, thanks Al.

Allanon

12-23-2008, 07:21 PM

So far it's looking like a meat grinder kind of game, like two heavyweights going at it.

Spur-Addict

12-23-2008, 07:24 PM

Come on Yao, don't you hurt my fantasy numbers tonight.

Allanon

12-23-2008, 07:25 PM

Come on Yao, don't you hurt my fantasy numbers tonight.

You got him on your team? Those 2 early fouls are gonna hurt. He also looked a little gimpy after that collision.

Spur-Addict

12-23-2008, 07:29 PM

Ben's getting his Bynum buckets.

Allanon

12-23-2008, 07:31 PM

Ben must have drunken some of that great Bynum Kool-Aid.

Allanon

12-23-2008, 07:41 PM

I still can't believe Wally Sczerbiak made the All Star team.

Kobe™

12-23-2008, 07:49 PM

amazing quality
http://www.justin.tv/bisktv

NuGGeTs-FaN

12-23-2008, 08:13 PM

The Nuggets have plummeted?

They lost a few coz Melo was hurting and he was ineffective, so he shut it down.

They lost to the Cavs, Rockets and Suns. It's not like they lost to the Heat :smokin

KidCongo

12-23-2008, 08:30 PM

Rockets are scorching from 3. Rafer won't miss.

bee01

12-23-2008, 08:32 PM

The 4th foul on Yao was a complete joke (must like the first 3). Big Ben jerks his head back and acts like he got hit in the face...replay shows 0 contact.

NuGGeTs-FaN

12-23-2008, 09:16 PM

Lebron does it again............. MVP for sure. The guy is just playing at a consistently incredible level

Allanon

12-23-2008, 09:17 PM

What is up with the Rockets. They get a chance to shine and they choke it away.

KidCongo

12-23-2008, 09:18 PM

What is up with the Rockets. They get a chance to shine and they choke it away.

LeBron just swatted Yao's soft stuff outta there.

KidCongo

12-23-2008, 09:19 PM

Btw Yao played great in the 4th when he was on the floor. Brought the Rockets back by getting to the line and passing out of doubles.

Thunder Dan

12-23-2008, 09:23 PM

Cavs just beat a team they should have beat

KidCongo

12-23-2008, 09:23 PM

Cavs win. Rocket fan were you watching? After you said you had never seen the Cavs beat Houston.

Thunder Dan

12-23-2008, 09:25 PM

Cavs win. Rocket fan were you watching? After you said you had never seen the Cavs beat Houston.

his parents grounded him from watching tv

Matchman

12-23-2008, 09:27 PM

Cavs win. Rocket fan were you watching? After you said you had never seen the Cavs beat Houston.

yup, rockets fans are watching the refs jobbed us tonight. the 4 fouls on Yao are all rediculous shit :pctoss

the nba, where the refs decide the game happens.

KidCongo

12-23-2008, 09:28 PM

yup, rockets fans are watching the refs jobbed us tonight. the 4 fouls on Yao are all rediculous shit :pctoss

the nba, where the refs decide the game happens.

He got every call in the 4th, balancing act.

Double-Up

12-23-2008, 09:29 PM

You won because of the refs, either way good game, a win's a win. See you next year...hopefully Mac will be healthy by then....maybe...no. :rolleyes

Many PackYao

12-23-2008, 09:29 PM

Yup, to sum it up, the refs take out Yao by calling cheap fouls and Lebrick, Ben gay and sideshow Bob flop like little bitches out there.I'm also impressed that Lebrick finally learned how to shoot free throws.:toast

Double-Up

12-23-2008, 09:30 PM

He got every call in the 4th, balancing act.

It wasn't balanced because the bad calls made us take out our best player for 3/4 the game.

Matchman

12-23-2008, 09:31 PM

He got every call in the 4th, balancing act.

how about the refs stop making bad calls and making up for it? btw most of Yaos calls at the 4th were legit (except for the one where Yao's shot hit the side of the backboard)

dirk4mvp

12-23-2008, 09:32 PM

Cleveland just being the best team in the league like they're supposed to be.

Matchman

12-23-2008, 09:36 PM

Cleveland just being the best team in the league like they're supposed to be.

they wont get the same calls if they are going up against the Celtics. KG will throw it down over sideshow bob and big ben and they will call a foul on them no matter what (yes, even if they take a rare, legitamite charge). :lol

bee01

12-23-2008, 09:39 PM

McGrady aged 30 years since last night.

Many PackYao

12-23-2008, 09:42 PM

Those two Poopie Gibson threes were the backbreakers late in the game.He even had that gremlin-looking shit eating grin to let you know he did.:lol

dirk4mvp

12-23-2008, 09:49 PM

Poopie Gibson?

Many PackYao

12-23-2008, 09:53 PM

Poopie Gibson?
Yes, Poopie!:p:

Roxsfan

12-23-2008, 10:18 PM

Btw Yao played great in the 4th when he was on the floor. Brought the Rockets back by getting to the line and passing out of doubles.

Fucking faggot refs took Yao out of 3 quarters of the game by calling ticky-tack faggot bullshit calls on Yao and then swallowed their whistles while Yao was hacked. Fuck the refs. Just imagine a fairly officiated game for Yao and a game with NO BS flopping.

The cavs hot streak was too much for the Rox to overcome with 4 games in 5 nights--two sets of b2bs--FRI-SAT and MON-TUE.

SpursDynasty

12-23-2008, 10:44 PM

Good job Cleveland. Easy game tonight, no surprises in this one.

Roxsfan

12-23-2008, 10:50 PM

Good job Cleveland. Easy game tonight, no surprises in this one.

Fuck you bitch:sleep Fucking noob.

Kai

12-23-2008, 10:56 PM

Bullshit calls on Yao prevented us from seeing a real game. We gave up way too many 2nd/3rd/4th chances and were sloppy with the ball at times. WTF is up with T-Mac? I thought he was 'healthy' now??

Props to the Cavs, though. They closed out the game well. Lebron is amazing.

Thunder Dan

12-24-2008, 09:18 AM

whaaaah the refs cost us the game whaaah

JoeTait75

12-24-2008, 11:15 AM

You Rox fans didn't notice that Artest was mugging LeBron the entire game and getting away with it? Artest is the ONLY guy in the league who can get away with what he was doing last night.

Anyway, Houston is a tough, tough team. Good win for our boys.

Many PackYao

12-24-2008, 11:32 AM

whaaaah the refs cost us the game whaaah
You'll be saying that plenty after the refs ass-rape your team when they play the Celtics Mr. Majerle.:lol

Thunder Dan

12-24-2008, 11:38 AM

You'll be saying that plenty after the refs ass-rape your team when they play the Celtics Mr. Majerle.:lol

we are not like the Rockets- we play such a solid game that we don't leave it into the refs hands

Many PackYao

12-24-2008, 11:43 AM

we are not like the Rockets- we play such a solid game that we don't leave it into the refs hands
You're right they don't.They leave it in the hands of Lebron to choke on critical free throws.:p:

djohn14

12-24-2008, 11:44 AM

This is coming from a Cavs fan. Yao did get robbed, and was forced to sit the bench for two calls....that werent really fouls. People flop and it happens. The refs didnt do it on purpose, but its unfortunate that Yao couldnt be on the court longer. There were some bad calls, but you cant tell me that they called everything in favor of the Cavs, but there were their fair share of missed calls. Not as obvious as Yaos. However the Cavs can only play the hand their delt, and they came out and one the game. LeBron is a beast....Mo Williams stepped up, Boobie knocked down some Treys and the Cavs won!

djohn14

12-24-2008, 11:47 AM

Also got a little something for ya

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifIKPjm-EJA

Matchman

12-24-2008, 12:17 PM

Thunder Dan

12-24-2008, 12:17 PM

You're right they don't.They leave it in the hands of Lebron to choke on critical free throws.:p:

stop hating- you lost to a better team, nothing to be ashamed of

djohn14

12-24-2008, 12:35 PM

stop hating- you lost to a better team, nothing to be ashamed of

Im....going....to....have to agree....with Thunder Dan on this one!

Many PackYao

12-24-2008, 01:55 PM

Im....going....to....have to agree....with Thunder Dan on this one!
Yup,8 on 5 is real fair.Only 23 mins for Yao compared to 38 for Lebrick. Be sure to thank to the refs for making calls on obvious flops.You should be proud!:toast :rolleyes

JoeTait75

12-24-2008, 03:05 PM

you know our complains are legit when the coach said this in the post game:
"I know it probably happens, but it's pretty amazing a team can go the whole third quarter and never get a foul called," he said. "No hand check, no body, I mean 12 minutes? They are awfully good." -Adelman

Somehow the officials found time to call six fouls on Z, though...

Look, Artest will rape LeBron the entire game in Houston, and you guys will get the calls down there. It's the NBA, it's how it works.

djohn14

12-24-2008, 03:10 PM

Yup,8 on 5 is real fair.Only 23 mins for Yao compared to 38 for Lebrick. Be sure to thank to the refs for making calls on obvious flops.You should be proud!:toast :rolleyes

Hey, I said it. Those were bad calls on Yao. I wish he would have been on the court the whole game. Is it the officials fault that T-Mac cant play like he used to? You have to play with the hand your givin and thats all you can do. There is not a single game that goes on in which the refs get everything right, and like I said, the Cavs didnt get all the calls. Two bad calls against Yao, one HORRIBLE call...but I cant help that. You want to make excuses, me too. Z was playing great before he went down to an ankle injury. If he hits he shots we dominate. Ben Wallace wasted some offensive possesions by jacking up shots...oh wait with Ben on the offensive end, its like playing 4 on 5. Why couldnt you stop us then?

djohn14

12-24-2008, 03:11 PM

Good point jt Z had six fouls. Horrible officials right?

djohn14

12-24-2008, 03:13 PM

Good point jt Z had six fouls. Horrible officials right?

Also Houston went to the line more, and you want to blame it on the officials? Yao went to the line 13 times, oh and also...Daniel Gibson, a Houston native...had more boards then Yao. Put a body on him why dont you. I came here to say "Yall played good, even with Yao out on those bad calls you all gave us a run for our money." Since yall gotta gripe about everything and cant say "good game" or anything close for that matter, imma start spittin facts, that you wont, and dont like!

Many PackYao

12-24-2008, 04:33 PM

JoeTait75

12-24-2008, 05:31 PM

Maybe McGrady is your problem then, and not the officials?

Yes, Yao got a couple of cheapies last night. Satisfied?

The officials didn't give the Rockets that game.

See you on Feb 26.

Roxsfan

12-24-2008, 06:16 PM

The Franchise

12-24-2008, 06:43 PM

Maybe McGrady is your problem then, and not the officials?

Yes, Yao got a couple of cheapies last night. Satisfied?

The officials didn't give the Rockets that game.

See you on Feb 26.

The refs did help with the outcome, but Tracys' Lack of interest is what won the game for you. The Cavs should have thanked him in their postgame interviews.

DaDakota

12-24-2008, 06:44 PM

djohn14

12-24-2008, 07:22 PM

Yao has been the focal point of our offense.He gets doubled almost every time so that opens it up for Rockets shooters.As soon as they took Yao out with cheap fouls ,Lebron took over and that left us with zombie Mcgrady who gave us nothing.How hard is that to understand?:bang

How hard is this to understand?....I know Yao is the focal point of our offense....but Z is a major part of ours. If LeBron took over...maybe Artest or Battier should have stopped him. And Yes T-Mac "blew it", but wow...thats not the officials fault. I like the Rockets...I know Yao got bad fouls called on him....but I dont care. You lost the game...we won the game. We both had our problems...but on that night....at least that night..we had the better team.

Many PackYao

12-24-2008, 07:42 PM

How hard is this to understand?....I know Yao is the focal point of our offense....but Z is a major part of ours. If LeBron took over...maybe Artest or Battier should have stopped him. And Yes T-Mac "blew it", but wow...thats not the officials fault. I like the Rockets...I know Yao got bad fouls called on him....but I dont care. You lost the game...we won the game. We both had our problems...but on that night....at least that night..we had the better team.
ok, great. Hopefully,next time we will get to see a better game where the refs don't help determine the outcome instead of the players.:toast

djohn14

12-24-2008, 07:50 PM

ok, great. Hopefully,next time we will get to see a better game where the refs don't help determine the outcome instead of the players.:toast

And I hope that as well. Dont get me wrong, Im agreeing with you with the fact that the refs screwed Yao over.

The_Game

12-24-2008, 07:58 PM

The Cavs won, but I am not impressed their roster is weak. The Rockets got jobbed by the refs, and the 4th game in 5 nights killed TinMac.

Boston looks good, LA looks good, then you have a bunch of teams that might win it if everything breaks right for them...the Cavs and Rockets are both in that group.

Not real contenders yet.

DD

:lol:lol:lol cavs not contenders? :lol

Cavs are obvious contenders....don't you ever put the Rockets in the same class as the
Cavs
Cavs have a legit chance to win it all..they have the best player in the game, a great 2nd option who can shoot lights out, a very good center and excellent role players who can shoot...which is what you need to win it all.

why do you think Boston fans are so concerned by the Cavs?

DaDakota

12-24-2008, 08:02 PM

The_Game

12-24-2008, 08:13 PM

Who is the Cavs great 2nd option? And please don't say Mo Williams....

You guys are starting fricken Ben Wallace at the PF spot, the guy has no offense at all....the Cavs are good, they are just not great.

Drink all the kool aid you like, they are Lebron and a bunch of average joes.....and I have seen where that eventually goes.

DD

The Cavs were a few rebounds from beating the Celtics last year, if it wasn't for PJ Brown's great 4th quarter the cavs would of been in the finals...Mo williams is the perfect 2nd option for Lebron, a guy who can spread the floor with his shooting and give you 20 on any given night.

Ben Wallace is still a quailty defender who van rebound and block shots. the perfect role player. you are obviously wrong, the Cavs are a GREAT team. They have great role players which is what you need to win it all.

they cavs are head and shoulders better than they were last year and are the best defensive team in the NBA....they have what you need to win the chip...a great superstar, great role players and great defense...PERIOD.

THERE ARE 3 MAIN CONTENDERS

CELTICS
LAKERS
CAVS

Thats it....no one else can win it all. One of those 3 will win it all

KidCongo

12-24-2008, 08:23 PM

Ben Wallace is a great defensive option in spurts. He doesn't see time in the 4th anyway.

Cavs>Rockets

Thunder Dan

12-24-2008, 08:39 PM

Cavs are just deeper than the rockets and they can sustain players in foul trouble

Thunder Dan

12-24-2008, 08:41 PM

Many PackYao

12-24-2008, 08:48 PM

Cavs are just deeper than the rockets and they can sustain players in foul trouble
Yup, I'm sure they would have done just fine with Lebron sitting on the bench with four fouls and only playing half of the game.:rolleyes

djohn14

12-24-2008, 08:52 PM

I would have thought that as well, however Cleveland has surprised me with what they CAN do without LeBron. It dosent come all the time, but they CAN do good.

Roxsfan

12-24-2008, 10:11 PM

Yup, I'm sure they would have done just fine with Lebron sitting on the bench with four fouls and only playing half of the game.:rolleyes

no shit, what a bunch of delusional bitches

DazedAndConfused

12-24-2008, 10:18 PM

KidCongo

12-24-2008, 11:56 PM

I still don't see the balance in the Cav's offense. It's basically Lebron driving and everyone else shooting spot up 3's. I'm not convinced that kind of offense can win against a juggernaut defensive team like BOS.

I really want to see BOS-CLE go at it again. It'll be interesting to see if CLE can dominate them at home like they did in the playoffs.

You must have missed the 6 straight high pick and rolls with Mo and Z at the start of the 4th. 5 possessions ended up in scores, Mo with 7, Z 2, AV 2.

djohn14

12-25-2008, 09:34 AM

You must have missed the 6 straight high pick and rolls with Mo and Z at the start of the 4th. 5 possessions ended up in scores, Mo with 7, Z 2, AV 2.

But most importantly...LeBron 0. Thats what they can do.

Thunder Dan

12-25-2008, 10:07 AM

you Rockets fans are starting to look like a bunch of babies. Face it, we won, you lost. Your team lost to one of the 3 elite teams, it's nothing to get upset about.

djohn14

12-25-2008, 10:16 AM

you Rockets fans are starting to look like a bunch of babies. Face it, we won, you lost. Your team lost to one of the 3 elite teams, it's nothing to get upset about.

Seriously. Its not like we're saying the Rockets suck. We would be lying if we said that. They are a good team, and put up a good fight, without one of their best. Thats something to be proud of.

The Franchise

12-25-2008, 12:19 PM

you Rockets fans are starting to look like a bunch of babies. Face it, we won, you lost. Your team lost to one of the 3 elite teams, it's nothing to get upset about.

I actually take it positively. We played horribly and still should have won. See you in Houston. :toast

Double-Up

12-25-2008, 12:59 PM

Flopping epidemic strikes Cleveland, Rockets lose

"Seldom do I find it necessary to publicly criticize the officiating of any athletic event. I think most can agree that officials at all level are placed in a difficult situation. Their job is often thankless, and there always remains the distinct realization that most of their decisions are going to be second-guessed on a routine basis.

With that being said, the officials who officiated the game between the Rockets and Cavaliers ought to donate whatever money they earned as a result of officiating the game."........

http://www.examiner.com/x-1154-Houston-Rockets-Examiner~y2008m12d24-Flopping-epidemic-strikes-Cleveland-Rockets-lose (http://www.examiner.com/x-1154-Houston-Rockets-Examiner%7Ey2008m12d24-Flopping-epidemic-strikes-Cleveland-Rockets-lose)

Good read...finally someone who speaks the truth.

Kai

12-25-2008, 01:04 PM

Cavs are just deeper than the rockets and they can sustain players in foul trouble

This is hilarious. Everything else in this thread doesn't really bother me, but seriously? The Cavs are deeper than the Rockets? :lol

Like another poster said, take Lebron out of the game for 3 quarters and see how "deep" your team is. :lmao

JoeTait75

12-25-2008, 01:55 PM

This is hilarious. Everything else in this thread doesn't really bother me, but seriously? The Cavs are deeper than the Rockets? :lol

Like another poster said, take Lebron out of the game for 3 quarters and see how "deep" your team is. :lmao

Why do people pretend like the Cavaliers are the only team that would be up shit creek if their superstar went down? You always hear, "See what would happen if they didn't have LeBron," but you never hear the same thing said about the Hornets w/o CP3 or the Lakers without Kobe. Why is that?

DaDakota

12-26-2008, 01:28 AM

Why do people pretend like the Cavaliers are the only team that would be up shit creek if their superstar went down? You always hear, "See what would happen if they didn't have LeBron," but you never hear the same thing said about the Hornets w/o CP3 or the Lakers without Kobe. Why is that?

Because without Lebron the Cavs are a sub .500 team in the Leastern conference.

DD

monosylab1k

12-26-2008, 01:31 AM

Because without Lebron the Cavs are a sub .500 team in the Leastern conference.

DD

That's better than being a perennial first round exit even when your superstars are healthy.

YellowFever

12-26-2008, 01:36 AM

That's better than being a perennial first round exit even when your superstars are healthy.

Dude, that was cold.

DaDakota

12-26-2008, 01:37 AM

j0getoT28MU

I mean COME ON !

DD

Roxsfan

12-26-2008, 01:50 AM

That's better than being a perennial first round exit even when your superstars are healthy. And yes the Mavs are donkey-dick sucking chokers, who are now themselves a perennial first round exit team as well.....so let's just get that out of the way.

Fixed.

Yao was not even in last year's postseason dumb fuck. Yes mac and ming were relatively healthy in previous postseasons so let me just get that out of the way:lmao

monosylab1k

12-26-2008, 01:54 AM

Fixed.

Yao was not even in last year's postseason dumb fuck. Yes mac and ming were relatively healthy in previous postseasons so let me just get that out of the way:lmao

Dirk popped his second round cherry on his first try. How many more years until Crazy Eyes and the Chinaman do it?

Roxsfan

12-26-2008, 01:57 AM

Dirk popped his second round cherry on his first try. How many more years until Crazy Eyes and the Chinaman do it?

and how many championships has he to show for all that?

TMAC-zero rings
Dirk-zero rings

mavs franchise fucking choked away their best/only chance to win a title against the heat:lmao
Next.

Many PackYao

12-26-2008, 03:23 AM

j0getoT28MU

I mean COME ON !

DDYup, all the proof of the refs effort to take out Yao is in this video.Excellent DD!:toast

Many PackYao

12-26-2008, 03:26 AM

Fixed.

Yao was not even in last year's postseason dumb fuck. Yes mac and ming were relatively healthy in previous postseasons so let me just get that out of the way:lmao
Boy, do Mavs fans have selective memory?:lol

kingmalaki

12-26-2008, 03:35 AM

The Cavs were a few rebounds from beating the Celtics last year, if it wasn't for PJ Brown's great 4th quarter the cavs would of been in the finals...Mo williams is the perfect 2nd option for Lebron, a guy who can spread the floor with his shooting and give you 20 on any given night.

Ben Wallace is still a quailty defender who van rebound and block shots. the perfect role player. you are obviously wrong, the Cavs are a GREAT team. They have great role players which is what you need to win it all.

they cavs are head and shoulders better than they were last year and are the best defensive team in the NBA....they have what you need to win the chip...a great superstar, great role players and great defense...PERIOD.

THERE ARE 3 MAIN CONTENDERS

CELTICS
LAKERS
CAVS

Thats it....no one else can win it all. One of those 3 will win it all

Naw, I don't see it happening for Cleveland. As the man said, they are in the same category as Houston and a few other teams....if things all fall into play for them it may be possible for them to win. Yeah, Cleveland came close to Boston last year, but you must also remember Ray Allen played like garbage until the middle of the ECF. And it wasn't the Cavs D that made him play like garbage....he was just in one hell of a funk. That isn't the case this season.

I don't see Cleveland beating Boston. It doesn't mean they aren't a great team. I just think LA and Boston are clearly a tier above anyone else....

Indazone

12-26-2008, 09:17 AM

Put the Cavs and the Celtics in the West and they'd both be like the rest of top 9 teams. Sure as hell would have more losses than they have.

Thunder Dan

12-26-2008, 09:37 AM

Put the Cavs and the Celtics in the West and they'd both be like the rest of top 9 teams. Sure as hell would have more losses than they have.

Cleveland is 9-1 vs. the West
Boston is 7-2 vs the West
Orlando is 13-4

The threee best teams are in the East. Nobody fears the Rockets, Mavs and Suns. The only good teams in the West are the Lakers and Spurs

The Franchise

12-26-2008, 12:06 PM

Cleveland is 9-1 vs. the West
Boston is 7-2 vs the West
Orlando is 13-4

The threee best teams are in the East. Nobody fears the Rockets, Mavs and Suns. The only good teams in the West are the Lakers and Spurs

Who fears Cleveland?

JoeTait75

12-26-2008, 12:21 PM

Put the Cavs and the Celtics in the West and they'd both be like the rest of top 9 teams. Sure as hell would have more losses than they have.

Oh, I don't know, you'd have to factor in all those extra wins we'd get against the Grizzlies, Timberwolves, Thunder, Clippers, Warriors, and Kings.

We'd do fine out West. So would Boston, obviously. You guys are clinging to the past when you talk about the superiority of the West. It's over. The East is ascendant. Get used to it.

And I have no sympathy for Rockets fans whining about being homered. We used to get the same treatment six times a year when we faced Michael Jordan. Shoe's on the other foot now.

The_Game

12-27-2008, 08:31 PM

Naw, I don't see it happening for Cleveland. As the man said, they are in the same category as Houston and a few other teams....if things all fall into play for them it may be possible for them to win. Yeah, Cleveland came close to Boston last year, but you must also remember Ray Allen played like garbage until the middle of the ECF. And it wasn't the Cavs D that made him play like garbage....he was just in one hell of a funk. That isn't the case this season.

I don't see Cleveland beating Boston. It doesn't mean they aren't a great team. I just think LA and Boston are clearly a tier above anyone else....

yeah and Lebron played gabage for the few games too? let me guess boston D was the reason? then why wasn't allen's struggles due to cavs defense?

Cavs added mo Williams a great scorer and without him took cavs to 7 games..why won't they win the title now they are improved by adding him and another year togeather? how anybody who watches the NBA can say the cavs are tier below celtics and lakers is a joke....celtics/lakers/cavs are all on the same level and all 3 can win it all.

seriously how can anybody think cavs shouldn't be considered one of the favourites?