Did MJ ever play a game half assed?

[pauls931]

Another thread mentioned if Kobe wins a title on his own, his MJ like legacy would be complete. But when I think about it, I've seen Kobe play many games half assed and can't remember Jordan doing likewise. Am I completely wrong here? If I'm right, then Kobe can never achieve MJ like status.

I still remember a playoff series when LA had Pho beat, and Pho worked their way back in and in game 7 I was happy to see the Suns win, but couldn't figure out why the fuck Kobe didn't seem to play hard.

[Armando]

Kobe is not even in MJ's league

[galvatron3000]

Who says Kobe has MJ status?

[Allanon]

Kobe needs at least 4 more rings to get considered for MJ status.

[scanry]

Kobe needs at least 3 more rings to get considered for MJ status.

...and 4 more league MVP's (Jordan Should have had the 1993 & the 1997 MVP as well and BTW Kobe should've won the 2006 MVP), 6 more Finals MVP's (which i don't think any one will ever achieve), a DPOY, 10 more scoring titles, and last but not the least, MJ-like heart for a lot of intangibles.

[DaDakota]

I would settle for TMac playing half the games half assed instead of half the games one-fourth assed.

DD

[balli]

I can think of a few occasions where Jordan played his ass off... but still needed Dick Bavetta in his back pocket in order to win.

[Killakobe81]

I can think of a few occasions where Jordan played his ass off... but still needed Dick Bavetta in his back pocket in order to win.

How about MJ getting torched by Labradford Smith anbd Stackhouse for over 40 points?
But to MJ's credit he destroyed both the next time he faced them Look MJ IS better than Kobe at this point and probably will be even after Kobe's done ...but to say he never took a game off etc he always clutch is poor bullshit ...he wasnt a saint either he womanized, gambled late in to the night BEFEOR BIG games punched Steve Kerr ...but also 2 his credit he normally played well despite all of this I agree best player I have ever seen but not infallible the way many like the original poster said he never takes a night off ...great

[pauls931]

How about MJ getting torched by Labradford Smith anbd Stackhouse for over 40 points?
But to MJ's credit he destroyed both the next time he faced them Look MJ IS better than Kobe at this point and probably will be even after Kobe's done ...but to say he never took a game off etc he always clutch is poor bullshit ...he wasnt a saint either he womanized, gambled late in to the night BEFEOR BIG games punched Steve Kerr ...but also 2 his credit he normally played well despite all of this I agree best player I have ever seen but not infallible the way many like the original poster said he never takes a night off ...great


These are bad things?

[manufor3]

mj>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe

[Killakobe81]

Mj is better but did take nights off ...

[TDMVPDPOY]

when you mean half ass do you mean by stinking up for 3 quarters then lighting up the 4th to get a win, act like ur the savior or someshit? he does that...fuck that.

the only time MJ plays half ass is when his either playing with an injury or the flu, but he still puts up those avg stats anyway.

[it's me]

Mj is better but did take nights off ...

WTF... all players take nights off.... humans ya know.

[m33p0]

yeah, sure he did. but never in the playoffs.

[peskypesky]

MJ with flu>Kobe

[Darrin]

Another thread mentioned if Kobe wins a title on his own, his MJ like legacy would be complete. But when I think about it, I've seen Kobe play many games half assed and can't remember Jordan doing likewise. Am I completely wrong here? If I'm right, then Kobe can never achieve MJ like status.

I still remember a playoff series when LA had Pho beat, and Pho worked their way back in and in game 7 I was happy to see the Suns win, but couldn't figure out why Kobe didn't seem to play hard(?)

You're right--MJ may have bad stretches, but never whole games. He gave 110% from '88-89 and beyond. Kobe hasn't played lax since Shaq broke his toe. At least I haven't seen him disinterested.

I compare their games and not necessarily their careers. Michael had to play hard because there was no other option. That has the effect of simply getting into a groove after awhile--it's what you expect of yourself. There was such a struggle for the young Kobe to do that, that he had to have the growth process after Shaq started diminishing in the 2002 offseason. Eddie Jones and Orlando Woolridge are comparable, but are Bill Cartwright (at that stage) and MVP Shaquille O'Neal? No.

That's the difference: we are the product of our environment.


BTW, PHX is now the abbreviation.

[TheMACHINE]

the fact there is a billion thread in spurstalk about MJ vs Kobe says plenty already.

[Killakobe81]

when you mean half ass do you mean by stinking up for 3 quarters then lighting up the 4th to get a win, act like ur the savior or someshit? he does that...fuck that.

the only time MJ plays half ass is when his either playing with an injury or the flu, but he still puts up those avg stats anyway.

wrong he took nights off on D otherwise those cats i mentioned higher up in the thread would have never went for 40 against him ...

He still is the best but not perfect and he also had crappy games in the playoffs ask detroit ...not saying he didnt play hard ...but again he is HUMAN ...

[xtremesteven33]

the fact there is a billion thread in spurstalk about MJ vs Kobe says plenty already.



haha your sig is hilarious

[YellowFever]

Yes he did take many nights off.

And no people, MJ is not the greatest ever.

Saying Kobe is in MJ's class is just as funny as saying MJ is the greatest ever.

[GetNashty]

I don't know about how many nights off he took. The man scored 30 or more points 561 times in his career. That's almost 7 full seasons of just 30 points games.

He scored 20 or more 848 times in his career...the guy didn't take many nights off.

[barbacoataco]

I don't think fans who bash MJ saw him play a lot before he retired the first time. He is easily not only the best basketball player I've ever seen, but the greatest team sports athlete. Unless you watched him play night after night in his period of 1990-1993 you just don't understand.

[kingmalaki]

Of course MJ took nights off. But the better question is, how many series was he contained in? I'm just posing the question....I don't know the answer. But I do know I have seen Kobe shut down in the biggest stage more than I have seen from MJ.

[Bob Lanier]

No, Michael Jordan was always a complete ass.

[SenorSpur]

Another thread mentioned if Kobe wins a title on his own, his MJ like legacy would be complete. But when I think about it, I've seen Kobe play many games half assed and can't remember Jordan doing likewise. Am I completely wrong here? If I'm right, then Kobe can never achieve MJ like status.

I still remember a playoff series when LA had Pho beat, and Pho worked their way back in and in game 7 I was happy to see the Suns win, but couldn't figure out why the fuck Kobe didn't seem to play hard.

Thank you for bringing this up. People seem to either forget this deplorable act or they've simply forgotten it altogether. I recall that Game 7 playoff game vividly and watched in disbelief as Kobe clearly "dogged it", passed up shots and essentially "quit" on his team. This occurred during a season when he had been sulking and bristling at the public criticism that he was simply a gunner and tried to win games all by himself. It seemed he wanted to prove to the Fakers, and the NBA community at large, that his team needed him to win. Whatever the case, I couldn't believe I was watching this superstar commit an act that I'd never seen committed by any NBA superstar player - especially MJ.

The answer to your question on MJ, hell NO. MJ never, ever, quit on anything. His competitive drive simply would not allow it. This is a guy thtat tried to cheat his former college teammate's (Buzz Petersen) mom, at cards.

It is for that reason that Kobe will never, ever, carry MJ's jock. He'll continue to be regarded as one of the greatest players in this era. However, IMO he'll always be regarded as second to MJ in every possible way. MJ is and will continue to be regarded as the greatest basketball player of all time.

[kingmalaki]

Thank you for bringing this up. People seem to either forget this deplorable act or they've simply forgotten it altogether. I recall that Game 7 playoff game vividly and watched in disbelief as Kobe clearly "dogged it", passed up shots and essentially "quit" on his team. This occurred during a season when he had been sulking and bristling at the public criticism that he was simply a gunner and tried to win games all by himself. It seemed he wanted to prove to the Fakers, and the NBA community at large, that his team needed him to win. Whatever the case, I couldn't believe I was watching this superstar commit an act that I'd never seen committed by any NBA superstar player - especially MJ.

The answer to your question on MJ, hell NO. MJ never, ever, quit on anything. His competitive drive simply would not allow it. This is a guy thtat tried to cheat his former college teammate's (Buzz Petersen) mom, at cards.

It is for that reason that Kobe will never, ever, carry MJ's jock. He'll continue to be regarded as one of the greatest players in this era. However, IMO he'll always be regarded as second to MJ in every possible way. MJ is and will continue to be regarded as the greatest basketball player of all time.

Yeah...I remember that game. Kobe just flat out quit. He stopped shooting in the 2nd half.

[Killakobe81]

I don't think fans who bash MJ saw him play a lot before he retired the first time. He is easily not only the best basketball player I've ever seen, but the greatest team sports athlete. Unless you watched him play night after night in his period of 1990-1993 you just don't understand.

I have been watching since 1980 he is the best but people act like he was never contained ok ask the Pistons or watch the EC playoffs in 87 88 and 89 he was contained by Detroit ...

[Killakobe81]

Thank you for bringing this up. People seem to either forget this deplorable act or they've simply forgotten it altogether. I recall that Game 7 playoff game vividly and watched in disbelief as Kobe clearly "dogged it", passed up shots and essentially "quit" on his team. This occurred during a season when he had been sulking and bristling at the public criticism that he was simply a gunner and tried to win games all by himself. It seemed he wanted to prove to the Fakers, and the NBA community at large, that his team needed him to win. Whatever the case, I couldn't believe I was watching this superstar commit an act that I'd never seen committed by any NBA superstar player - especially MJ.

The answer to your question on MJ, hell NO. MJ never, ever, quit on anything. His competitive drive simply would not allow it. This is a guy thtat tried to cheat his former college teammate's (Buzz Petersen) mom, at cards.

It is for that reason that Kobe will never, ever, carry MJ's jock. He'll continue to be regarded as one of the greatest players in this era. However, IMO he'll always be regarded as second to MJ in every possible way. MJ is and will continue to be regarded as the greatest basketball player of all time.

As for Kobe vs. Phoenix I agree was puzzling ...not sure what happened personally I dont care ...that series was lost way before that and more importantly as much as I Admire his game he is not even better than Magic much less of Jordan I would argue Magic is better than MJ and have a better argument Magic greatest Laker ever ...

[GetNashty]

Of course MJ took nights off. But the better question is, how many series was he contained in? I'm just posing the question....I don't know the answer. But I do know I have seen Kobe shut down in the biggest stage more than I have seen from MJ.
I can only think of 1 team. And the Pistons failed to do it in that last season and got swept. So it only worked on him in from team in a few series when he was young.

[Darrin]

I have been watching since 1980 he is the best but people act like he was never contained ok ask the Pistons or watch the EC playoffs in 87 88 and 89 he was contained by Detroit ...

That's not the argument most are making. The question is if Jordan ever looked like the took a night off because the Bulls won 70 games or had 3 or 4 rings? Did he always try his hardest?

Secondly, it was 1988 (East Semifinals), 1989 (East Finals), 1990 (East Finals), and 1991 (East Finals) they met in the playoffs. 1987 the Pistons played the Bullets, Hawks, and Celtics.
http://www.nba.com/history/playoffs/19861987.html

In 1988 the Bulls were a bad team. In 1989, Grant, Paxon, and Pippen had emerged. Dave Corzine was a great role player in that Conference Final matchup. But Jordan looked like the best athlete in the world and their defense translated into Detroit's 'feature' offense being exposed. In short, for these two years, Jordan looked young.

In 1990, the Pistons had jelled. They had an incredible balance and it was Laimbeer who made the difference. The Bulls were more potent with Hodges taking Vincent's role in the lineup.

1991, the Bulls had learned how to dictate tempo and the Pistons were coming apart offensively. This is the year it showed they needed Dantley and not Aguirre. Dumars was a power guard because of how much strength he added. Thomas was off his game because of his multiple surgeries that year. And the Bulls were just a better basketball team. Scott Williams, BJ Armstrong, Stacey King, and Will Perdue were all playing key roles.

That's what I remember

[pauls931]

I never watched every single chicago game with MJ, but where I grew up we got WGN/Chicago that played every game so the only NBA action I could watch was the bulls and MJ was always out to kill.

Kobe vs Pho baffled me and then in other games where his team falls behind he would try to take over, but pass over easy assists which pretty much meant the game was over.

[Killakobe81]

This is taken from Mike Monroe's article posted here on this site ...
The end of Chicago’s 18-game streak in 1996 was hastened by some late night carousing. The Bulls had gone to Denver having won 31 of their previous 32 games to play a Sunday game against a Denver team that wasn’t as horrid as the Warriors have been this season but had won only 18 of 44.

As for some of the Bulls teams sucked argument yes they did as did Kobe's Lakers post Shaq until last year ...
Look don't take my posts as saying MJ is not the GOAT only player that for my money that you could argue was better was MAgic but it was a different better ...if you look at David robionson's best years vs. Duncan's best stats will show he is the BETTER player but Duncan has more tiotles MVP's etc. so stats arent everything I think Magic is at leats worthy of an argument be he himself will say MJ is better I would NEVER argue that Kobe is BETTER than MJ but he is the closest of all the annoited NEXTguys ...until Lebron matures than it willbe LBJ's burden to bear ...

I just hate all the nut swinging of MJ when many on here started watching when MJ was winning but dont factor in MJ's strugglled early (when Kobe was winning already) a point Doug collins has made on-air many times ...
On my scale MJ is a 10 magic 9.5 and Kobe/Lebron a 9 (LBJ will get better)
some people act as though Jordan was perfect and WAYYYY better than kobe or LBJ he is just better ...
Plus watch the old games MJ was WAYYY ahead of his time centers were better but athlete wise there were few in his class (a huge advantage) to further my point look at LBJ's era though he is FROM a physical standpoint every bit MJ's equal or even mor eimposing... but he CAN NOT dominate on that level of Mj BEACUASE at his position alone look at the athletes that can make thinngs difficult ... Tayshaun, Melo, Pierece, Grant hill, Gwallace, Iguadola Butler etc. th best players in the 80's early 90's were more scores than athletes and played a smart floor game than above the rim Mj is the father of this era of basketball
When Mj played he got cooper, Scott, dumars, Dennis johnson, ALvin Roberston, Sleept Floyd, Mitch Ricmond Clyde Drexler Reggie miller some of them great defenders (smarts positioning etc.)...very few in a class of athlete as Mj, Lebron or Kobe ...this is not hating just facts ...
Mj greatest (so far) but if LEbron ever puts up MJ's numbers etc. I would argue his feat is MORE impressive than Mj's (and Im not a Lebron fanboy) teams were much better OFFENSIVELY in Mj's era (early) reall good defensively second 3 peat (later) ...but athletes are wAYYY better now what CENTER could do what Dwight Howard does? !
I also watched WGN and it wasnt fair how much better MJ was ...Mj was babe or Tiger woods his Tiger slam year ..Lebron/Kobe are great players but their peers are much better like Woods before he hot hurt last year
One last note rules are EASIER now i admit that the handcheck rule makes scoring easier but I argue that would only further the gap in Mj's era making his stats greater but showing how weak the NBA was then ...80's best era of NBA ...200's is proably 2nd best decade 90's was garbage EXCEPT Bulls, Jazz and Rockets

[PM5K]

but dont factor in MJ's strugglled early (when Kobe was winning already) a point Doug collins has made on-air many times ...


Well then that's a stupid point that both you and Doug Collins have made.

Kobe came to a team that already had Shaq, and a team that had already won 53 games the year before.

[PM5K]

Can you even imagine how many Championships MJ would have won with Shaq?

They would have never lost, shit they'd still be winning them right now...

[YellowFever]

Well then that's a stupid point that both you and Doug Collins have made.

Kobe came to a team that already had Shaq, and a team that had already won 53 games the year before.

They came to the Lakers the same year.

[YellowFever]

Can you even imagine how many Championships MJ would have won with Shaq?

They would have never lost, shit they'd still be winning them right now...

Tex Winter say not as many..
Shaq and MJ would've gotten along worse than Kobe and Shaq.

[PM5K]

They came to the Lakers the same year.

That's what I meant, it's not like he was there for years before Shaq came along...

[hitmanyr2k]

I saw the Bulls from their garbage days to their glory days back to their garbage days and I can tell you Jordan didn't take nights off...especially not playoff games. Did Jordan have off shooting games? Sure he did but if that part of his game was off he'd pick it up elsewhere...playmaking, defense, rebounding, whatever it took. He had the complete floor game and used every bit of it to get a win. In the playoffs everything was turned up a notch. Even after years and years of winning that competitive nature never went away. He wanted to dominate and play hard every night and also demanded the same of his teammates.

It's one of the reasons I sometimes get ill watching Tim Duncan and the Spurs play. There are MANY games where his heart doesn't seem to be in it, he gets out-hustled, whines like a bitch, and plays like a flat out scrub. I know the mantra of this board is to blame it on back to backs (oooh poor Timmy is tired) and all that bullshit but the fact of the matter is Tim Duncan takes games off whether it's physically, mentally or both. And it filters right down to his team.

And I know one thing for damn sure. You would never in your life see Jordan come out and simply swing the ball around and stand on the perimeter like a statue for an entire 2nd half of a Game 7 with his team still in striking distance. Anyone who doesn't think Kobe quit that game has blinders on. There's nothing "baffling" about it. He flat out quit and threw his teammates under the bus to prove a point.

[m33p0]

....
It's one of the reasons I sometimes get ill watching Tim Duncan and the Spurs play. There are MANY games where his heart doesn't seem to be in it, he gets out-hustled, whines like a bitch, and plays like a flat out scrub. I know the mantra of this board is to blame it on back to backs (oooh poor Timmy is tired) and all that bullshit but the fact of the matter is Tim Duncan takes games off whether it's physically, mentally or both. And it filters right down to his team.
...
sadly, this is true. :depressed