Steve Nash vs. Tony Parker

[Dex]

So Steve Nash has long been heralded as one of the best point guards in the game. He's a proven scorer, a dead-eye shooter, and has amazing court vision. Over the past five years, if you had asked most non-Spur fans if they'd rather have Nash or Parker, I think most would have reasonably gone with Nash.

Flash to this point in the season. Obviously, Chris Paul is playing out of his mind and is the best point guard in basketball at this very moment, to the point of being in the MVP discussion. But after our Christmastime Showdown with the Suns, I'd like the bring back the old Nash vs. Parker debate and see how Tony is stacking up the point guard elite this season.

In the stats listed below, I created my own category called Points Contributed. This is basically the Points Per Game, plus two points for every Assisted Basket, to generalize how the player affected the scoring column.

Steve Nash
PPG = 15.5
APG 8.5 x 2 = (17.0 PC)
Points Contributed = 32.5
RPG = 3.00
TO = 3.75
EFF = +18.00

Tony Parker
PPG = 21.3
APG = 6.6 x 2 = (13.2 PC)
Points Contributed = 34.5
RPG = 3.20
TO = 2.68
EFF = +19.63

Looking deeper into the stats, the only place Steve Nash still has Tony beat is from the three-point line, and the free-throw line. Aside from that, Tony is schooling Steve in nearly every statistical category, aside from assists, which he compensates for by his increased scoring. Also, his speed and footwork make him more of a post threat, his defense is leaps and bounds ahead of Nash, and he is arguably showing more poise as a floor leader, having led his team to a better record through tougher straits. Nash looks out of place in Porter's new offense, and its hard to tell if it is the system that is failing him, or if it is just his aging legs.

At this point, I think it's pretty safe to put Tony Parker in the Top 5 Point Guard List. Where he falls on that list probably depends upon which homer glasses you happen to be wearing, but I know I feel good about the Spurs' future when I see him bringing the ball up the court.

But just for comparison's sake...

Deron Williams
PPG = 14.4
APG = 9.6 x 2 = (19.2 PC)
Points Contributed = 33.6
RPG = 2.90
TO = 3.76
EFF = +17.06

Rajon Rondo
PPG = 11.6
APG = 7.4 x 2 = (14.8 PC)
Points Contributed = 26.4
RPG = 5.00
TO = 2.24
EFF = +19.10

Chris Paul
PPG = 20.2
APG = 11.7 x 2 = (23.4 PC)
Points Contributed = 43.6 :wow
RPG = 5.30
TO = 2.88
EFF = +30.38 :dizzy

[kace]

PER seems a good way to measure things, even if the stats don't say the whole thing. but FG % and others stats should be included in any general appreciation of a player:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=pg&seasonType=2&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26qual%3dtr ue%26pos%3dpg%26seasonType%3d2


The only thing that bothers me is how parker, being one of the 15 best scorers of the league is only 36th in free throws attempted per game, considering his aggressivity to the rim. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaftpct&qual=true&sort=fta&league=nba&split=0&season=2009&seasontype=2&avg=pg&pos=all
2 or 3 more FTA per game would be good for the spurs.

[DAF86]

The thing with Parker is that a lot of people don't see him as a true PG. Is kind of the same with Iverson, nobody can deny that they're both great players but when you talk about point guards people tend to think in names like Nash, Kidd, Paul, etc.

[timvp]

Nice breakdown:tu


plus two points for every Assisted Basket

What's interesting is how many of Parker's assists are on three-pointers. A few years ago, he led the league in that category. Of those players you mentioned, here's the breakdown:

Percentage of Assists that are Three-Pointers
Tony Parker - 38.4%
Chris Paul - 31.7%
Steve Nash - 26.3%
Deron Williams - 22.6%
Rajon Rondo - 21.9%

I haven't checked but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Parker leads the league in that category. Part of the reason Parker doesn't average more assists is that the Spurs have virtually no finishers at the basket. While CP3 can lob it to Chandler and Nash can rack up easy assists via Stoudemire, who on the Spurs gives Parker easy assists? Duncan and Ginobili are good finishers but they mostly like to create shots on their own.

There will always be those who will try to diminish Parker's accomplishments by comparing him to a players like Iverson who aren't anything close to a true point guard, but the truth is that if Parker isn't a true point guard -- he's pretty damn close. Especially over the last few seasons.

[timvp]

The thing with Parker is that a lot of people don't see him as a true PG. Is kind of the same with Iverson, nobody can deny that they're both great players but when you talk about point guards people tend to think in names like Nash, Kidd, Paul, etc.

Right on cue . . .

[xtremesteven33]

People also forget how much BETTER Parker has gotten this past years. Couple of years ago the best way to defend him would be like defending Rondo now. Sag off and dare him to shoot.

Now Parker is a superstar. Able to take over a game if needed. Spurs fans dont know how fortunate we are to have Parker.

[Shastafarian]

I know I'm in the minority but I still think Parker needs to work on his PnR defense. He just gives up most of the time. In that way, he's kinda like nash.

[timvp]

I know I'm in the minority but I still think Parker needs to work on his PnR defense. He just gives up most of the time. In that way, he's kinda like nash.

Pop is on record as saying Parker is his best pick-and-roll defender. Even better than Bowen.

[Shastafarian]

Pop is on record as saying Parker is his best pick-and-roll defender. Even better than Bowen.

I just don't see it. Watch him closely next time. Tell me if he grabs the defender setting the pick and lets his teammate chase after the opposing PG. He does it so often it seems.

[DAF86]

Right on cue . . .

Kiss my ass.

Iverson is one of my favorite players of all time right next to Manu and Jordan. And I like Tony 'cause he resembles me of him. Tony isn't a conventional point guard he's a shoot first guard that gets most of his assts of his penetrations just like Iverson.

The comparisson wasn't meant to disminish Parker's acomplishemts, but to praise them. For god sake AI is a fricking hall of famer so STFU you abnosious b1atch.

[xtremesteven33]

Kiss my ass.

Iverson is one of my favorite players of all time right next to Manu and Jordan. And I like Tony 'cause he resembles me of him. Tony isn't a conventional point guard he's a shoot first guard that gets most of his assts of his penetrations just like Iverson.

The comparisson wasn't meant to disminish Parker's acomplishemts, but to praise them. For god sake AI is a fricking hall of famer so STFU you abnosious b1atch.

:wow

[sonic21]

Kiss my ass.

Iverson is one of my favorite players of all time right next to Manu and Jordan. And I like Tony 'cause he resembles me of him. Tony isn't a conventional point guard he's a shoot first guard that gets most of his assts of his penetrations just like Iverson.

The comparisson wasn't meant to disminish Parker's acomplishemts, but to praise them. For god sake AI is a fricking hall of famer so STFU you abnosious b1atch.

wow

[DAF86]

:wow

timvp thinks that because I like Manu I don't like Tony when I never said nothing wrong about him, in fact every time I can I praise him. Including this one time

[timvp]

I just don't see it. Watch him closely next time. Tell me if he grabs the defender setting the pick and lets his teammate chase after the opposing PG. He does it so often it seems.Sounds like you should give Pop a call.

[Shastafarian]

Sounds like you should give Pop a call.

Why so he can trace it and send his Ukrainian friends to my house?

[timvp]

Kiss my ass.

Iverson is one of my favorite players of all time right next to Manu and Jordan. And I like Tony 'cause he resembles me of him. Tony isn't a conventional point guard he's a shoot first guard that gets most of his assts of his penetrations just like Iverson.

The comparisson wasn't meant to disminish Parker's acomplishemts, but to praise them. For god sake AI is a fricking hall of famer so STFU you abnosious b1atch.


timvp thinks that because I like Manu I don't like Tony when I never said nothing wrong about him, in fact every time I can I praise him. Including this one time

:lol Sensitive much?

If you are such a big fan of Iverson, you'd know he's completely incapable of playing point guard. The Pistons recently found that out the hard way. AI is a great scorer but he doesn't make players around him better and he'd be a disaster as the starting point guard for the Spurs -- even back in his prime.

At shooting guard, he can be a damn good player. But comparing Parker to him is far from a compliment to Parker because AI is the stereotypical short shooting guard who is forced to play point guard but can't succeed in doing so.

[mathbzh]

About PG, I found this "assists/bad pass" ranking at 82games

assist/bad pass (http://www.82games.com/0809/RESORT7.HTM)

Paul ranking is amazing (Harris/billups/Parker don't try fancy pass).
This season Nash is clearly not that good. It looks like he is gambling too much with his passing. What do you think?

[DAF86]

:lol Sensitive much?

If you are such a big fan of Iverson, you'd know he's completely incapable of playing point guard. The Pistons recently found that out the hard way. AI is a great scorer but he doesn't make players around him better and he'd be a disaster as the starting point guard for the Spurs -- even back in his prime.

At shooting guard, he can be a damn good player. But comparing Parker to him is far from a compliment to Parker because AI is the stereotypical short shooting guard who is forced to play point guard but can't succeed in doing so.

I think that if you switch places (Parker lands in Philly in 96 with a bunch of scrubs and Iverson in San Antonio in 01 with Duncan and Pop) Parker will be a lock hall of famer with a lot of scoring titles and maybe a regular season MVP, and Iverson will be a more complete player with 3 NBA rings and some finals MVP's

[kace]

I think that if you switch places (Parker lands in Philly in 96 with a bunch of scrubs and Iverson in San Antonio in 01 with Duncan and Pop) Parker will be a lock hall of famer with a lot of scoring titles and maybe a regular season MVP, and Iverson will be a more complete player with 3 NBA rings and some finals MVP's

:nope

[DAF86]

:nope

How do you think their careers would unfold?

[it's me]

Nash hands down...

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Parker > Nash now end of story. Nash can't pass anymore without getting a bunch of turnovers.

[it's me]

Parker > Nash now end of story. Nash can't pass anymore without getting a bunch of turnovers.

All PGs have a lot of turnovers... Tony is leading the Spurs in that department even playing alongside "Manu Turnobili" ....

when young Nash>>>>>>>Tony

[Chieflion]

All PGs have a lot of turnovers... Tony is leading the Spurs in that department even playing alongside "Manu Turnobili" ....

when young Nash>>>>>>>Tony

Jose Calderon says hi cause he knows how to pass safely. Not a wrong decision, but not the right one though.

[layupdrill]

Nash 2006 was better than Parker...Today Parker all day

[sonic21]

tony is 26, we'll compare them when tony'll be in his prime.

[barbacoataco]

I've always thought Parker was better at least since 2005. Nash can't even defend Parker, which is why Marion used to. How can Nash be better when Parker can defend Nash (very well) and Nash can't even begin to defend Parker?

Also AI is the most overrated player of the past 20 years. He shoots a low percentage and isn't a team player. Scoring a lot of points with a low percentage isn't greatness, it's just ballhogging. Look at how Denver and now Detroit failed to get better with him.

The fact that Detroit got worse and Denver got much better with the Billups/AI trade should answer any questions about who is better. Billups has a Finals MVP and he makes his team better. AI just runs around until the shot clock is low and then shoots a fadeaway jumper that is like a 38% shot. Look at how Parker outplayed Iverson in the 2007 playoffs on BOTH ENDS OF THE COURT. Why do fans still cling to the notion that he is a great player?

[pawe]

Nash gets more assists than TP because he never stops dribbling. He's gonna circle round the floor til he sees someone open in the paint or is ready to shoot while the Spurs' type of play is 4 down or kick out then make an extra pass. I'd still take TP in a heartbeat because of his speed and ability to finish in the paint.

[2centsworth]

parker by a mile

[anakha]

when young Nash>>>>>>>Tony


Nash's career stats:



Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1996-97 22 PHO NBA 65 2 10.5 1.1 2.7 .423 0.4 0.8 .418 0.6 0.8 .824 0.2 0.7 1.0 2.1 0.3 0.0 1.0 1.4 3.3
1997-98 23 PHO NBA 76 9 21.9 3.5 7.7 .459 1.1 2.6 .415 1.0 1.1 .860 0.4 1.7 2.1 3.4 0.8 0.1 1.3 1.9 9.1
1998-99 24 DAL NBA 40 40 31.7 2.9 7.9 .363 1.2 3.3 .374 1.0 1.2 .826 0.8 2.1 2.9 5.5 0.9 0.1 2.1 2.5 7.9
1999-00 25 DAL NBA 56 27 27.4 3.1 6.5 .477 1.1 2.7 .403 1.3 1.5 .882 0.6 1.6 2.2 4.9 0.7 0.1 1.8 2.2 8.6
2000-01 26 DAL NBA 70 70 34.1 5.5 11.3 .487 1.3 3.1 .406 3.3 3.7 .895 0.7 2.5 3.2 7.3 1.0 0.1 2.9 2.3 15.6
2001-02 27 DAL NBA 82 82 34.6 6.4 13.3 .483 1.9 4.2 .455 3.2 3.6 .887 0.6 2.5 3.1 7.7 0.6 0.0 2.8 2.0 17.9
2002-03 28 DAL NBA 82 82 33.1 6.3 13.6 .465 1.4 3.3 .413 3.8 4.1 .909 0.8 2.1 2.9 7.3 1.0 0.1 2.3 1.6 17.7
2003-04 29 DAL NBA 78 78 33.5 5.1 10.8 .470 1.3 3.3 .405 2.9 3.2 .916 0.8 2.2 3.0 8.8 0.9 0.1 2.7 1.8 14.5
2004-05 30 PHO NBA 75 75 34.3 5.7 11.4 .502 1.3 2.9 .431 2.8 3.2 .887 0.8 2.6 3.3 11.5 1.0 0.1 3.3 1.8 15.5
2005-06 31 PHO NBA 79 79 35.4 6.8 13.4 .512 1.9 4.3 .439 3.3 3.5 .921 0.6 3.6 4.2 10.5 0.8 0.2 3.5 1.5 18.8
2006-07 32 PHO NBA 76 76 35.3 6.8 12.8 .532 2.1 4.5 .455 2.9 3.3 .899 0.4 3.1 3.5 11.6 0.8 0.1 3.8 1.5 18.6
2007-08 33 PHO NBA 81 81 34.3 6.0 11.9 .504 2.2 4.7 .470 2.7 3.0 .906 0.3 3.1 3.5 11.1 0.7 0.1 3.6 1.4 16.9
2008-09 34 PHO NBA 25 25 34.4 5.4 11.2 .482 1.6 3.8 .426 3.0 3.2 .938 0.2 2.9 3.0 8.5 0.7 0.1 3.8 1.1 15.4
Career NBA 885 726 30.9 5.2 10.6 .485 1.5 3.4 .431 2.5 2.8 .899 0.6 2.4 2.9 7.9 0.8 0.1 2.7 1.8 14.3


Parker's career stats:



Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2001-02 19 SAS NBA 77 72 29.4 3.5 8.3 .419 0.8 2.5 .323 1.4 2.1 .675 0.4 2.1 2.6 4.3 1.2 0.1 2.0 2.2 9.2
2002-03 20 SAS NBA 82 82 33.8 5.9 12.7 .464 1.0 3.0 .337 2.7 3.5 .755 0.4 2.2 2.6 5.3 0.9 0.0 2.4 2.1 15.5
2003-04 21 SAS NBA 75 75 34.4 5.6 12.6 .447 0.8 2.7 .312 2.5 3.6 .702 0.6 2.6 3.2 5.5 0.8 0.1 2.4 2.0 14.7
2004-05 22 SAS NBA 80 80 34.2 6.7 14.0 .482 0.5 2.0 .276 2.6 4.0 .650 0.6 3.1 3.7 6.1 1.2 0.1 2.7 2.1 16.6
2005-06 23 SAS NBA 80 80 33.9 7.8 14.2 .548 0.1 0.5 .306 3.2 4.5 .707 0.5 2.8 3.3 5.8 1.0 0.1 3.1 2.0 18.9
2006-07 24 SAS NBA 77 77 32.5 7.4 14.2 .520 0.2 0.5 .395 3.6 4.5 .783 0.4 2.8 3.2 5.5 1.1 0.1 2.5 1.8 18.6
2007-08 25 SAS NBA 69 68 33.5 7.5 15.1 .494 0.2 1.0 .258 3.6 5.0 .715 0.4 2.8 3.2 6.0 0.8 0.1 2.4 1.3 18.8
2008-09 26 SAS NBA 20 19 32.8 8.7 17.3 .503 0.3 0.9 .353 3.9 4.9 .804 0.4 2.8 3.2 6.7 0.8 0.1 2.6 1.2 21.6
Career NBA 560 553 33.1 6.4 13.2 .488 0.5 1.7 .315 2.8 3.9 .720 0.5 2.6 3.1 5.5 1.0 0.1 2.5 1.9 16.2


Nash's peak came at 30, with the Suns. I'd hardly call that 'young'.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the difference between the 2 is whose the best at flopping.....

[mrspurs]

If we didnt have Tony, this team wouldnt be successful. I dont care what position he plays.

[it's me]

If we didnt have Tony, this team wouldnt be successful. I dont care what position he plays.


Hello.... Mr Duncan?

[it's me]

Nash's career stats:



Parker's career stats:



Nash's peak came at 30, with the Suns. I'd hardly call that 'young'.

Wow Nash career stats are better than what I thought. Thanks:toast