Editorial: Paul Pierce - Hall of Famer or not?

[layupdrill]

Fresh off his career defining playoff performance and Finals MVP honors for the world champion
Boston Celtics (http://layupdrill.com/2008/11/hall-of-fame-debate-paul-pierce/#), Paul Pierce crossed over into new company. Spending his entire 10 year career
with the Celtics (http://layupdrill.com/2008/11/hall-of-fame-debate-paul-pierce/#), Pierce has seen the best and worst of times in Boston. A 6 time all star, Pierce had experienced mild success in the playoffs in 2002, taking Boston to the Eastern Conference Finals, but this year, in his first trip to the NBA Finals, Pierce delivered. LayupDrill.com makes an argument on why Paul Pierce has now set himself into select company: NBA Champion, and Future Hall of Famer. Keeping in mind that the Hall of Fame (http://layupdrill.com/2008/11/hall-of-fame-debate-paul-pierce/#) is not just based on your NBA (http://layupdrill.com/2008/11/hall-of-fame-debate-paul-pierce/#) career, you have to note the outstanding career Paul Pierce had at the University of Kansas. At one time then Kansas coach Roy Williams said Pierce was one of the most talented players he had ever coached. Pierce was the Big 12 Tournament MVP in 1997 and 1998, and entered the NBA draft, where he was selected 10th overall by Boston.
Pierce’s early years in Boston saw him team up with Antoine Walker, and together formed a formidable duo that competed for the playoffs year in and year out. After the Nets defeated the Celtics in 2002 NBA Playoffs, trade rumors began to swirl around in Boston. Danny Ainge took over a year later, and Pierce was unsure of the direction of the team. Give Ainge credit though, he believed in Pierce, and made him the cornerstone of the franchise, as he is the only player remaining that was there prior to Ainge taking over. It was Pierce who before the 2007 season went to the front office in Boston and let them know he needed help. That help was at first to come in terms of Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett. Now just a year later, the Celtics are champions, Pierce is in the prime of his career, and there are no talks of slowing down now.
Many would argue that while Pierce has been a good player his entire career, and shown flashes of greatness, he never has been the best player or even 2nd best player at his position for any 1 season. Pierce has made the All NBA 3rd team 3 times, 2002, 2003 and last season. Whether all star appearances or regular season MVP trophies mean anything regarding being a Hall of Famer is debatable. One thing that is not is Pierce’s will to win, and willingness to putting the team ahead of any individual accolades. Those intangibles cannot be taught, and the type of leadership Pierce shows towards his teammates shows night in and night out.
Paul Pierce Career Stats
Points/Game - 23.1 (2nd in Celtic history to Larry Bird)
Rebounds/Game - 6.4
Assists/Game - 3.9
FG% - 44%
FT% - 79%


originally written and posted

http://layupdrill.com/2008/11/hall-of-fame-debate-paul-pierce/

[SenorSpur]

Pierce's worthiness has been on display throughout his entire career. Unfortunately, he'd often times be the best player on very bad teams. However, to me, his HOF worthiness was cemented during the 2008 NBA playoffs and the C's run to the championship. He was the best player on the floor and outdueled the great Kobe Bryant during the Finals. When Boston needed a tough basket or a timely play, he was usually the one who made it.

[resistanze]

Players that PP is better than who are in the HOF, off the top of my head:

Dumars
Nique
Worthy
Murphy

[TheMACHINE]

I guess anyone who wins a finals mvp is going to be a HOF. If PP gets in, Billups, Wade and Tony Parker better get in too.

[xtremesteven33]

I guess anyone who wins a finals mvp is going to be a HOF. If PP gets in, Billups, Wade and Tony Parker better get in too.



Dont be mad cause Pierce owned Kobe

[TheMACHINE]

Dont be mad cause Pierce owned Kobe

wow dude, we cant have a conversation/debate without bringing up Kobe?

[TheMACHINE]

I guess anyone who wins a finals mvp is going to be a HOF. If PP gets in, Billups, Wade and Tony Parker better get in too.


Regardless if xtremesteven tries to bring up Kobe with this statement, imo, with or without "owning" Kobe, i still dont see why he becomes a HOF just because of one Finals performance. I would like to get some "serious" feedback on this.

[layupdrill]

Players that PP is better than who are in the HOF, off the top of my head:

Dumars
Nique
Worthy
Murphy

Pierce better than Dominique?
Big Game James?

Interesting

[Darthkiller]

Players that PP is better than who are in the HOF, off the top of my head:

Dumars
Nique
Worthy
Murphy

rofl. Dumars >>>> Pierce

[PM5K]

I have to agree that playing on a sorry ass team for nine years doesn't help, but then how much does it help when you finally win the big one but need two all-stars next to you to do it.

Don't get me wrong I like Paul Pierce, and I think he'll get in, but something just isn't right about it...

[Kai]

TC, learn to paragraph. Please.

[Reggie Miller]

Premature ejaculation thread.

Actually, more like a nocturnal emission.

[Reggie Miller]

Those intangibles cannot be taught, and the type of leadership Pierce shows towards his teammates shows night in and night out. http://layupdrill.com/2008/11/hall-of-fame-debate-paul-pierce/


Good God, you wasted time out of my life with this absolute crap!

Intagibles? Hmm, I can't touch it, measure it, or teach it. Maybe because INTANGIBLES DON'T FUCKING EXIST!

If I cannot measure something in the context of a team sport, it means that the factor is so insignificant that there is no statistical correlation. For example, let's say that Oberto gave all of the Spurs' players a year supply of delicious beef jerky in 2007, but not in 2008. Clearly, this is why the Spurs failed to repeat last year.

Once again...


...INTANGIBLES DON'T FUCKING EXIST!

[resistanze]

Pierce better than Dominique?
Big Game James?

Interesting

Maybe not 'Nique, the rest certainly. He'll be on the level on all of those players by the time he retires.

[it's me]

Hell no... dude has been the ultimate looser (aka KG) until last season.

[xtremesteven33]

wow dude, we cant have a conversation/debate without bringing up Kobe?



haha cmon man, im not slandering kobe this time.

[cobbler]

Maybe not 'Nique, the rest certainly. He'll be on the level on all of those players by the time he retires.

Nique and Worthy are far superior to PP. Not even close. How can you say no to Worthy. Arguably one of the best small forwards to ever play the game.

3 rings
Finals MVP (game 7 triple double)
7 time all-star
NCAA national championship (yes it was he who lead NC to the championship, not jordan and his one timely shot)
1996 NBA top 50 list

Are you kidding me? :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

What has PP done prior to last year? All her ever did was score. Never led his team anywhere or made his teamates better. Yes, he had a great finals last year. Let's see 3 or 4 more years at that level then talk.

He might just be worthy (pun intended) of the self proclaimed HOF though.

[resistanze]

Nique and Worthy are far superior to PP. Not even close. How can you say no to Worthy. Arguably one of the best small forwards to ever play the game.

3 rings
Finals MVP (game 7 triple double)
7 time all-star
NCAA national championship (yes it was he who lead NC to the championship, not jordan and his one timely shot)
1996 NBA top 50 list

Are you kidding me? :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

What has PP done prior to last year? All her ever did was score. Never led his team anywhere or made his teamates better. Yes, he had a great finals last year. Let's see 3 or 4 more years at that level then talk.

He might just be worthy (pun intended) of the self proclaimed HOF though.
Worthy was a damn good player and clutch, HOF worthy (no pun intended).

But using your own argument, did Worthy lead the Lakers? How many of his years did he play alongside Magic and Kareem? Did Worthy ever play on a team as bad as the 2006-07 Celtics?

The first year PP has two teammates anywhere near the level to Magic and Kareem (not even close though) and he wins a championship. I don't see how at his pace why PP couldn't be mentioned in the same category of those guys, and I'm not even a real fan of his.

[cobbler]

Worthy was a damn good player and clutch, HOF worthy (no pun intended).

But using your own argument, did Worthy lead the Lakers? How many of his years did he play alongside Magic and Kareem? Did Worthy ever play on a team as bad as the 2006-07 Celtics?

The first year PP has two teammates anywhere near the level to Magic and Kareem (not even close though) and he wins a championship. I don't see how at his pace why PP couldn't be mentioned in the same category of those guys, and I'm not even a real fan of his.

Yes he did in the 88 playoffs. And my point was, that one year does not make a HOF player. If PP continues AT THIS PACE for 3 or 4 more then we can talk about it.

[galvatron3000]

Billups won't get in because he came into his own late and is most likely in the down side of his career, Parker will get in simply because he gets better yearly. Wade will get in because he's one of the best, period.

[nil.ball]

man forget about paul pierce, what about ronjo rhondo.

[m33p0]

Players that PP is better than who are in the HOF, off the top of my head:

Dumars
Nique
Worthy
Murphy

Dumars was a damn great player. Same goes to Worthy. there's no way Pierce is better than those 2. not by a mile.

[Chieflion]

Seemed like the poll is rather close. I guess I will just explain why Pierce will be in the HOF in my point of view.

1 Finals MVP. He is a Celtic. 2nd on the All time Celtic scoring list. Brought the Celtics to a 17th championship after a 22 year drought.(You can argue that Allen and Garnett helped Pierce out on that but Pierce was a Celtic since the beginning of his career.

[TheMACHINE]

Seemed like the poll is rather close. I guess I will just explain why Pierce will be in the HOF in my point of view.

1 Finals MVP. He is a Celtic. 2nd on the All time Celtic scoring list. Brought the Celtics to a 17th championship after a 22 year drought.(You can argue that Allen and Garnett helped Pierce out on that but Pierce was a Celtic since the beginning of his career.

I understand your point, but does being a Finals MVP and a Celtic really qualify as a HOF?

[Chieflion]

I understand your point, but does being a Finals MVP and a Celtic really qualify as a HOF?

Better than being a Wizard and doing what he is doing now.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

No way.

I don't even know if I'd put Wade in the hall of fame and he's better than Paul Pierce.


If Pierce wins 2 more championships then obviously you'd have to consider it, but while I can see his jersey being retired by the Celtics, I don't think he deserves a spot in the HOF as of right now.

[bostonguy]

This is something I am iffy on. Pierce is a legit superstar in this league. No he isnt on Kobe/Brons/Wade/Duncan/Dirks superstar level but he is a superstar nonetheless.

IF KG gets in, Pierce has to get in too. Now does that mean they are true HOF material? Ehhh PP makes a better case than KG but I dont know if that would still qualify him.



And :lmao:lmao at anyone who put Pierce in the class of Worthy/Dumars.

[lefty]

Players that PP is better than who are in the HOF, off the top of my head:

Dumars
Nique
Worthy
Murphy

Pierce better than Wilkins?

Did you pick up Findog's weed from his toilet bowl ?

[barbacoataco]

He's borderline HOF'er. The combination of a career 23 PPG and outplaying Kobe and winning the 2008 Finals MVP will be enough. If the Celtics win another Championship he is in for sure.

Also, just because he "needed" two other superstars doesn't make him weak. First of all, Ray Allen wasn't all that great, and most championship teams have at least two stars. Pierce was the hero of that series, Period.

[Darrin]

He's the Celtics' 5th leading scorer and he's the gray beard who spent 10 of the 22 years without a Championship in Beantown. He was the best player on that 2002 team that made the Conference Finals and the Finals MVP in 2008. That's a Hall-of-Fame player. Current Hall-of-Famers:

Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Shaquille O'Neal
Kevin Garnett
Jason Kidd
Dikembe Mutombo
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen
Allen Iverson
Chauncey Billups

Soon-to-be (Be careful: Larry Johnson, Mike Bibby, Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway used to be on this list):
Carmelo Anthony
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Chris Bosh
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Joe Johnson
Jermaine O'Neal

[LnGrrrR]

I'm a Celtics homer, and even I wouldn't put Pierce in the Hall. Maybe if he keeps up production for the next two years and wins another ring, but not yet.

[hater]

right now? no fuckin way

maybe after his career is over. maybe

[diego]

i like pierce. a couple of my friends are hardcore boston fans so i've seen him quite a bit over the years.

and i think there is more to his game than just scoring, though thats what he does best.

but there is one thing that strikes me about this argument.

most agree that as a pro, pierce has two main arguments- one, that he was the best player on their first champ team in decades,
and 2, that hes near the top of the celts all time scorers list.

yet, when they won the championship his scoring output was lowest since his sophmore season and his worst playoff scoring avg. And when he was scoring a lot, they were losing a lot.

he's got the best of both worlds- the prestige of winning (with average stats) and the prestige of having great stats (while losing). of course if these celtics can stay competitive, i expect his career averages to all go down. but if he were to retire right now, i'd definitely consider it an unfair advantage.

[diego]

oh, and how could i forget!

another knock on his HOF credentials: was on the first US NT with NBA players to lose. yeah, i remember pierce looking mad and sad at the same time, twas great!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvnDFCdTaEc&feature=related

vid quality sucks but its good enough to enjoy the show
:hat

[sonic21]

not yet, he went only two times far in the playoff, he has a ring but guys like Dirk, nash, reggie miller are more deserving.