Spurs D compared to Celts' and Cavs'

[nikegirl]

I've been very amazed how these two teams have consistently played great D this season, along with a few other teams. I think teams have finally figured out that D wins championships.

How do you think the Spurs' D will match up with these two teams'? I mean these two teams have given up 100pts just two times this season, which is an amazing, amazing stat. I'd like to know how you think the Spurs will fare against them.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Not well, considering the Spurs struggle against the tougher more physical defensive teams in the league. The Spurs offense is very inconsistent, and seeing as how much more the Cavs have improved offensively, as well as how great Boston is in general, I think the Spurs have a ways to go.

[T Park]

Not well, considering the Spurs struggle against the tougher more physical defensive teams in the league. The Spurs offense is very inconsistent, and seeing as how much more the Cavs have improved offensively, as well as how great Boston is in general, I think the Spurs have a ways to go.

:lol

Shocker.

[nikegirl]

I'm actually surprised at how the Cavs' offense has improved. And with their D as well. For Christ's sake, Mike B. has been seeking advice from Pop. You should've shared less Pop. :D:D

[Johnny RIngo]

Hollinger's team stats:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats?sort=defeff&seasonType=2&league=nba&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fteamstats%3fsort%3ddefeff%26seasonT ype%3d2%26league%3dnba

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/944/hollingerdefeffjh1.jpg

[BlackSwordsMan]

#30 sacramento and they still have their own forum

[Allanon]

When the Spurs first started the season, their defense was attrocious but their O looked godly.

The offense is more stagnant with Manu/Parker as opposed to the running and gunning G Hill and Money Mason. Guys defertoo much to the Big 3 when they're on the court.

Now the Spurs defense has improved tremendously, I think it coincides with Bowen getting his game legs back and Bonner playing frenetic D against the opposing big...Bonner is quicker than I thought.

[xtremesteven33]

im not concerned about the Spurs defense. Come playoff time, theyll be the best. And you can bank on that.

The offense on the other hand, well i feel we can get some better plays and more easier shots.

[nikegirl]

im not concerned about the Spurs defense. Come playoff time, theyll be the best. And you can bank on that.

The offense on the other hand, well i feel we can get some better plays and more easier shots.

This is also a good point. The Spurs have shown earlier in the season that they have adequate offense. When Manu and Parker came back, the offense kinda stagnated a bit. I think the Spurs should run more motion offense, with everybody being able to touch the ball and that Mason and Hill shouldn't defer to the Big 3 too much. I still think that Pop should give Mason more mins that Fin so come playoff time, Fin is not tired and Mase is more comfortable with the system.

[Brodels]

Granted, I haven't seen the majority of the games this season, but what I have seen has left me somewhat uninspired. I think the Spurs are merely a good defensive team at this point, and that they have to get better in order to become great. When Finley and Bonner are both in the starting lineup and Parker seems to lose focus on the defensive end sometimes, things are bound to be different than they used to be.

The Spurs have a knack for hitting their stride later in the season, and the defense can improve between now and then. I'm sure their defense will continue to improve, but will it be enough to go from good to great? I think the team's championship hopes largely rely on that question.

[nikegirl]

When the Spurs first started the season, their defense was attrocious but their O looked godly.

The offense is more stagnant with Manu/Parker as opposed to the running and gunning G Hill and Money Mason. Guys defertoo much to the Big 3 when they're on the court.

Now the Spurs defense has improved tremendously, I think it coincides with Bowen getting his game legs back and Bonner playing frenetic D against the opposing big...Bonner is quicker than I thought.

Yeah I agree with you on the offense thing. I just don't get it. Wish Pop would trust Mase and Hill some more. It wouldn't hurt to at least "manage" Fin's minutes. Heck he's doing it with Bowen already.

[Solid D]

The Spurs certainly are a top 10 team defensively, but they are not in the same class of D with the Cavs (healthy Varejao), Celts, Lakers and Magic (yes Orlando).

They won't be in the same class until they start holding their opponents under 44% shooting and they haven't done that in a few seasons. The Spurs just don't have the perimeter quickness and interior size to lock teams down these days. They have, however, demonstrated a nice ability to slow teams from entering their offenses and cause late-in-the-shot-clock choices. I will never consider a team that allows 45% shooting a great defensive team...and that's what the Spurs have allowed the past three seasons.

[Rogue]

Our defense used to be No.1 in the league, because we had the league's best defenders in Duncan and Bowen. But bowen has lost his starting postioin and his game time is pretty limited this season. Without Bowen, duncan has to take more resposibility in defense but what duncan does this season is not fully satisfying.

Bowen was not good at offense and his offensive ability is even worse now, but he is still among the best defenders in this league. Mason is a pretty good offender but his defense really needs some work. It's a good choice to play Mason as a starting role when we face a weak team who can hardly make any trouble on our defense, but mason should give up his starting position for Bowen when we meet with some contenders like Lakers and Celtics.

[Reck]

Our defense used to be No.1 in the league, because we had the league's best defenders in Duncan and Bowen. But bowen has lost his starting postioin and his game time is pretty limited this season. Without Bowen, duncan has to take more resposibility in defense but what duncan does this season is not fully satisfying.

Bowen was not good at offense and his offensive ability is even worse now, but he is still among the best defenders in this league. Mason is a pretty good offender but his defense really needs some work. It's a good choice to play Mason as a starting role when we face a weak team who can hardly make any trouble on our defense, but mason should give up his starting position for Bowen when we meet with some contenders like Lakers and Celtics.

You said Mason is a good offender? Sex offender you mean? :wow

[xellos88330]

I still do not think that we have seen the real Spurs for a full 48 minutes yet. You see it in flashes, but it isn't consistent. Only time can fix those bugs in the defensive system.

[DROB4EVER]

Spurs are not a top defendsive team right now. We need to get opp FG% down under 42% to be considered a great defensive team.......Lets first try to learn to not be taken into double overtime by the woarst teams in the league then we can talk!

[mrspurs]

We dont make stops. We allow to many layups. And its not really defense thats winning games. Its Pops coaching and our system thats slows you down. Its Tony Parker's inside scoring. And its the rest of the teams half court shooting. It all works well against sorry teams. But it wont be good enough for the better teams.

[MarHill]

im not concerned about the Spurs defense. Come playoff time, theyll be the best. And you can bank on that.

The offense on the other hand, well i feel we can get some better plays and more easier shots.

Agreed!!


2009 NBA Finals: Spurs vs. Celtics!!!!!
:flag:

[xtremesteven33]

Agreed!!


2009 NBA Finals: Spurs vs. Celtics!!!!!
:flag:



its gonna happen. Belie dat! :tu

[MarHill]

Spurs are not a top defendsive team right now. We need to get opp FG% down under 42% to be considered a great defensive team.......Lets first try to learn to not be taken into double overtime by the woarst teams in the league then we can talk!


Overreaction!!!


It's an 82 game season and sometimes even the bad teams will play well against the Spurs.

The Spurs are still a benchmark for those teams on their schedule. And when you play 82 games......close games will happen. No one's perfect and they are definitely not robots.

It's amazes me how fans want their teams to be perfect all the time...when it's inhumanly possible.

The Spurs defense has gotten better as the season has gone along. But they still have a ways to go. Moreover, the key is getting spots down the stretch of the ball game and that will be key in the playoffs.

We still have 4 months of a season left and plenty of time for the Spurs to get defense in order.

I'm still more concerned about the offense than the defense.

The Phoenix game showed me in a glimpse that Tony(hopefully Manu too) can trust Mason to hit a key basket near the end of a game. And that will help tremendously in the playoffs.

[z0sa]

We dont make stops. We allow to many layups. And its not really defense thats winning games. Its Pops coaching and our system thats slows you down. Its Tony Parker's inside scoring. And its the rest of the teams half court shooting. It all works well against sorry teams. But it wont be good enough for the better teams.

Idiot.

Double OT game and it ended 106-103 ... if thats not tough nosed defense for 58 mins, what is? And that was WITH Mayo hitting contested jumpers all 4th quarter and on.

[MarHill]

We dont make stops. We allow to many layups. And its not really defense thats winning games. Its Pops coaching and our system thats slows you down. Its Tony Parker's inside scoring. And its the rest of the teams half court shooting. It all works well against sorry teams. But it wont be good enough for the better teams.

That's not entirely true.

The Phoenix game...they got several stops down the stretch and TD play good defense with 5 fouls.

And they have several games in the season so far...where the Spurs defense were able to get stops.

It hasn't been consistent and they still have 4 months to get it together for the playoffs.

[DROB4EVER]

Overreaction!!!


It's an 82 game season and sometimes even the bad teams will play well against the Spurs.

The Spurs are still a benchmark for those teams on their schedule. And when you play 82 games......close games will happen. No one's perfect and they are definitely not robots.

It's amazes me how fans want their teams to be perfect all the time...when it's inhumanly possible.

The Spurs defense has gotten better as the season has gone along. But they still have a ways to go. Moreover, the key is getting spots down the stretch of the ball game and that will be key in the playoffs.

We still have 4 months of a season left and plenty of time for the Spurs to get defense in order.

I'm still more concerned about the offense than the defense.

The Phoenix game showed me in a glimpse that Tony(hopefully Manu too) can trust Mason to hit a key basket near the end of a game. And that will help tremendously in the playoffs.

No foolish, not a overrecation we are comparing our D now....read the thread. Bonner is not gonna get any taller, nor will his arms suddenly grow. Tim has no leaping ability at all and has slowed in his rotations. Bowen plays 12 mins a game and is no longer a shut down guy!

Our D is what it is, we are not a great defensive team right now, and unless Ian and Deke give us more size and shot blocking or D isnt gonna get any better. Tim has peaked, Fin is starting at the SF and is not a good defender and Bonner try as he may is not a great defender.

[DROB4EVER]

Idiot.

Double OT game and it ended 106-103 ... if thats not tough nosed defense for 58 mins, what is? And that was WITH Mayo hitting contested jumpers all 4th quarter and on.

So you consider tough D going into Double OT at home against a young bad team winning by 3? When we dont need last second shots to beat avg basketball teams and we beat a couple teams who are contenders then we can say we play tough D.

[xtremesteven33]

No foolish, not a overrecation we are comparing our D now....read the thread. Bonner is not gonna get any taller, nor will his arms suddenly grow. Tim has no leaping ability at all and has slowed in his rotations. Bowen plays 12 mins a game and is no longer a shut down guy!

Our D is what it is, we are not a great defensive team right now, and unless Ian and Deke give us more size and shot blocking or D isnt gonna get any better. Tim has peaked, Fin is starting at the SF and is not a good defender and Bonner try as he may is not a great defender.


Duncan-Great defender
Bowen-Great defender
Ginobili-Good defender
Parker-Good defender
Finley-Mediocre defender
Mason-Mediocre defender
Hill-Good defender
Bonner-Mediocre defender
Thomas-Good defender (showing signs of being great though :tu)
Oberto-Mediocre defender



i dont see any poor defenders in the regular rotation. Theyll get it together.

[my2sons]

Spurs are not a top defendsive team right now. We need to get opp FG% down under 42% to be considered a great defensive team.......Lets first try to learn to not be taken into double overtime by the woarst teams in the league then we can talk!

Thirty teams, spurs ranked 6th after a horrible start, ya spurs aren't one of the top defensive teams right now.

[MarHill]

No foolish, not a overrecation we are comparing our D now....read the thread. Bonner is not gonna get any taller, nor will his arms suddenly grow. Tim has no leaping ability at all and has slowed in his rotations. Bowen plays 12 mins a game and is no longer a shut down guy!

Our D is what it is, we are not a great defensive team right now, and unless Ian and Deke give us more size and shot blocking or D isnt gonna get any better. Tim has peaked, Fin is starting at the SF and is not a good defender and Bonner try as he may is not a great defender.

Yes, right now it's not the best in the league.

Tim couldn't jump in the last several years..what's new about that!

Of course Bonner isn't going to any taller!

They have still held teams 23 of 30 games under 100 points and opponents are shooting 45%....it's a good defensive team not great.

But they are four months left in the season and plenty of time to get their defense better.

Defense in the NBA isn't just about height and size. It's about rotations and being in the right position at the right time.

By the way, I did read the thread!!

:flag:

[MarHill]

No foolish, not a overrecation we are comparing our D now....read the thread. Bonner is not gonna get any taller, nor will his arms suddenly grow. Tim has no leaping ability at all and has slowed in his rotations. Bowen plays 12 mins a game and is no longer a shut down guy!

Our D is what it is, we are not a great defensive team right now, and unless Ian and Deke give us more size and shot blocking or D isnt gonna get any better. Tim has peaked, Fin is starting at the SF and is not a good defender and Bonner try as he may is not a great defender.

I was saying you overreacted to an 2OT game against Memphis. Bad teams can play well in a 82 game season.

:flag:

[Sissiborgo]

We have good D...My opinion the best D :fro

[Solid D]

Remember, we hold people under 100 because we play slow, that does not mean your a good defensive team. Limiting an opponents shot attemps is gonna lower ppg given up. The best gauge of a good D is fg% 39-41% your a great defensive team, 42-44 good....45-46 good to avg.

You stated we allow 45% fg, that is not good. Keep in mind that number may be held lower becasue we are such a good defensive rebounding team.

Tim has never been a great athlete but look at him in 2003-4 and now, he is much slower in his rotations and no longer jumps to block alot of shots.

Bonner and Fin are below avg defenders, Parker is avg Mason is abouve avg and Duncan is great. That does not make a good defensive team.

Say what you want but when your a slow down team and you allow a very bad team to take you to OT on your home court thats not the mark of a contender. I can see if this happend one time Ok you had a bad game, but this has happened several times. We cant be a great defensive team without having good defensive players.

For today's NBA, I would adjust your Opp FG% up a couple of points for your "great" defensive teams. The best modern era season was produced by the Spurs .401 in 1999 and that was a 50-game season and that was pre-hand-check rules changes. I would say in today's NBA, .420 is great for that statistical category.

[SpurAddict561]

I've been very amazed how these two teams have consistently played great D this season, along with a few other teams. I think teams have finally figured out that D wins championships.

How do you think the Spurs' D will match up with these two teams'? I mean these two teams have given up 100pts just two times this season, which is an amazing, amazing stat. I'd like to know how you think the Spurs will fare against them.

Considering 70% of their games are against EAST opponents, it's no surprise they hold teams to under 100 on a regular basis.

put it like this, my buddy is a Laker fan, and I broke it down to him

the ONLY team in the West that can roll with the Lakers DEFENSIVELY....is US

PERIOD

I'd say Celts, Spurs, Cavs defensively

[Tbiggums47]

Considering 70% of their games are against EAST opponents, it's no surprise they hold teams to under 100 on a regular basis.

put it like this, my buddy is a Laker fan, and I broke it down to him

the ONLY team in the West that can roll with the Lakers DEFENSIVELY....is US

PERIOD

I'd say Celts, Spurs, Cavs defensively

I'd say the Spurs would be better that Boston and LA if they had another big man who could and would help Tim on the weak side or could represent another shot blocker when penetrators get pass Tim.:ihit

[honestfool84]

yeah, we need a good shot blocker.


but it's the offense that is worrying me.

[honestfool84]

but you know what, defense wins 'ships, not offense.


just ask the spurs and suns.

[SpurAddict561]

I'd say the Spurs would be better that Boston and LA if they had another big man who could and would help Tim on the weak side or could represent another shot blocker when penetrators get pass Tim.:ihit

Kurt Thomas is that guy, but he doesn't get much burn these days

did you not see him basically single handedly finish off the Grizz the other night?

now don't think "oh its the Grizz", because it was Rudy Gay & OJ Mayo he stuffed

who are 2 All Star caliber players REGARDLESS what team they're on

high five Kurt daddddy

[MarHill]

Remember, we hold people under 100 because we play slow, that does not mean your a good defensive team. Limiting an opponents shot attemps is gonna lower ppg given up. The best gauge of a good D is fg% 39-41% your a great defensive team, 42-44 good....45-46 good to avg.

You stated we allow 45% fg, that is not good. Keep in mind that number may be held lower becasue we are such a good defensive rebounding team.

Tim has never been a great athlete but look at him in 2003-4 and now, he is much slower in his rotations and no longer jumps to block alot of shots.

Bonner and Fin are below avg defenders, Parker is avg Mason is abouve avg and Duncan is great. That does not make a good defensive team.

Say what you want but when your a slow down team and you allow a very bad team to take you to OT on your home court thats not the mark of a contender. I can see if this happend one time Ok you had a bad game, but this has happened several times. We cant be a great defensive team without having good defensive players.


Again I believe your overstating your case.

I don't think people understand that an 82 game season is a grind. As we fans expect perfection...which just unrealistic!!

The fact they had several (actually 3) double OT games....it can happen. That doesn't the Spurs are all of sudden a bad defensive team. I will admit they are not a great defensive team yet....but they are not terrible either.

I can go through the regular season of the past 5 years and find where the Spurs had some bad losses to bad teams and won some close games to bad teams.

But to think that the Spurs (even the mighty Celtics) are going through a 82 game season and just blow every bad team out is terribly realistic.

There is a reason the Chicago Bulls are the only team in NBA History to go over 70 wins. And the Lakers of the 70's won 69 games.

Even the Dallas Mavericks the won 67 games in 2005-2006 was spent in the 1st round playoff matchup against the Warriors. Yes, I know it was a perfect matchup for the Warriors.

My point is you don't just blow through everybody in an 82 game season and the fact that we won those games...shows we are a good team when you don't play well!!

[Solid D]

I think you can also add Detroit to the list of great, or at least very good defensive teams. I'm very impressed with their bench D, in particular...the best I've seen this year.

[SpurAddict561]

If we get Dikembe we'll be 1st from then on out