Earth To Europe, Russia: Hamas Must Be Crushed, Not Coddled

[ClingingMars]

By Joel C. Rosenburg

(Washington, D.C., December 31, 2008) -- The Gaza war rages on with no immediate end in sight. Indeed, Israeli sources tell me a ground operation into Gaza is not yet definite, but is likely.

Israel has rightfully rejected a French-proposed 48 hour cease-fire, saying the Gaza operation will continue until Israel's goal of shutting down the terrorist rocket threat is accomplished. The leaders of the European Union, Russia, and many governments around the world are putting enormous pressure on Israel to stop defending the Jewish people and stop attacking the terrorist strongholds in Gaza. This is crazy. Why do the Europeans and Russians have such a double-standard when it comes to Israeli national security?

More than 6,300 rockets and missiles have been fired at Israel by Hamas since Israeli withdrew its military forces from Gaza in 2005. Some 400 rockets have been fired at Israel just since December 19th. Would the French or Germans agree to a cease-fire if they were being hit by hundreds and thousands of rockets, missiles, and mortars by enemies sworn to annihilate them? Of course not. The Russians invaded Georgia for far, far less.

"We didn't initiate the Gaza operation in order to end it while Israeli towns are still under fire, as they were before the operation," Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told reporters. "Israel has shown restraint for years; she gave the truce a chance; we told ourselves 'let's try it,' but Hamas violated the truce."

I don't often say this, but Olmert is right. Hamas must be crushed, not coddled. Yet the world is trying to coddle these Palestinian Radical Islamic jihadists. It's an outrage. The onus is on the Hamas terrorists to lay down their arms and stop firing rockets into Israel. Until that happens, the IDF should continue fighting.

It pains me to see the suffering on both sides, but this is entirely Hamas' responsibility. They were urged by Egypt, by Mahmoud Abbas, and by the Israelis not to let the previous cease-fire lapse, but they chose war instead. They have never been hit this hard. Indeed, Gaza has not seen this level of fighting since 1967.

Israelis living within rocket range are truly safe and secure. Yet, the Islamic Radicals in Gaza don't appear ready to surrender. To the contrary, Hamas is using longer-range rockets than ever before - some of them made in Iran - putting hundreds of thousands of more Israeli at risk than in previous clashes. Hamas has already fired more than 50 rockets, mortars and missiles at Israel as of 4pm local time (9am eastern). Two hit the Israeli city of Beersheva last night, some 28 miles from Gaza. This is the first time Beersheva has ever been in range of Gaza-fired rockets. Haaretz reports that no one was injured but 40 people were treated for shock. The city is rattled, and theaters, cinemas and other shops and businesses are shutting down. Rockets also continue to hit the town of Sderot, and the Israeli coastal cities Ashkelon and Ashdod. I'm told that most of the children in Sderot have been evacuated from the town. Many are now temporarily relocated to northern Israeli cities and towns, such as Haifa.

Iran, in addition to providing Hamas longer-range rockets, is also now apparently recruiting some 10,000 volunteer suicide bombers to attack Israel.

-Mars

[TDMVPDPOY]

By Joel C. Rosenburg

(Washington, D.C., December 31, 2008)
Israel has rightfully rejected a French-proposed 48 hour cease-fire, saying the Gaza operation will continue until Israel's goal of shutting down the terrorist rocket threat is accomplished. The leaders of the European Union, Russia, and many governments around the world are putting enormous pressure on Israel to stop defending the Jewish people and stop attacking the terrorist strongholds in Gaza. This is crazy. Why do the Europeans and Russians have such a double-standard when it comes to Israeli national security?


The only countries that give a shit about this is america/australia/british.....the rest just dont give a shit seriously. Countrys with veto powers dont give a shit cause they have no financial interest and dont want to come in clean the mess.

[smeagol]

I wonder why boutons does not blame Bush for financing Israel's attack on Gaza given that he always champions any left wing cause (and defending the Palestinians is definetly a left wing cause).

[TDMVPDPOY]

I wonder why boutons does not blame Bush for financing Israel's attack on Gaza given that he always champions any left wing cause (and defending the Palestinians is definetly a left wing cause).

dont america give them like $3B each year in financial aid to israel....

[Winehole23]

I wonder why boutons does not blame Bush for financing Israel's attack on Gaza given that he always champions any left wing cause (and defending the Palestinians is definetly a left wing cause).Would the blame be misplaced?

In the 2006 invasion of Lebanon we expedited arms shipments, and our military aid to Israel has been ongoing, so the premise seems to have some support. You don't have to be a left-winger to see that.

[boutons_]

Smeagol, iike Aggie and a bunch of others here, is obsessed with me, puts straw-man words in my mouth, introduces my name into threads where I haven't posted.

According to some here, you aren't American, so you are a second-class human, if that. Apparently, because it's not American, Argentina is a shit-hole.

[smeagol]

Smeagol, iike Aggie and a bunch of others here, is obsessed with me, puts straw-man words in my mouth, introduces my name into threads where I haven't posted.

Where do you stand on the Israel - palestine conflict. On the left or on the right?



According to some here, you aren't American,


There is an Argentine flag underneath my handle. Isn't it telling enough for you?



so you are a second-class human, if that.


Ouch!



Apparently, because it's not American, Argentina is a shit-hole.


Nah . . . it is beautiful. The problem is it is full of Argentines . . . :lol

[Homeland Security]

What we need is another Crusade.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Ehhh we already have another Crusade, pleeze.

I find it incredibly ironic that a country of jews has barricaded up an entire region of people and has been treating them like cattle for years. You just can't make shit like this up. Go israel!

[temujin]

Europe and Russia rightfully don't give a freaking damn about the israelo-palestian "troubles" for the simple, excellent and refreshing reason that they DO NOT hand out 50 billions of their taxpayers' money to one of the two contenders.

Each year.

For the last 30 years.

Good luck to the generous taxpayers in other parts of the world!!!

[Shastafarian]

The Russians are putting pressure on Israel to stop?

:lol:rollin:lol:rollin

I guess it's ok to kill them some Georgians, but not so ok to kill some Palestinians.

[RandomGuy]

The Russians are putting pressure on Israel to stop?

:lol:rollin:lol:rollin

I guess it's ok to kill them some Georgians, but not so ok to kill some Palestinians.

A much better analogy would be that of Russia and Chechnya.

The russians have about as much moral authority on this as Pol Pot.

[Shastafarian]

A much better analogy would be that of Russia and Chechnya.

The russians have about as much moral authority on this as Pol Pot.

True the greater quantity of hypocrisy comes from Chechnya but the Israeli incursion and the Russian one into Georgia bear such close resemblance.

[Cry Havoc]

True the greater quantity of hypocrisy comes from Chechnya but the Israeli incursion and the Russian one into Georgia bear such close resemblance.

Horrible analogy. Georgian's didn't openly declare that they wanted to kill Russians. Sheesh.

[Shastafarian]

Horrible analogy. Georgian's didn't openly declare that they wanted to kill Russians. Sheesh.

In July 2008, hostilities started between Ossetian separatists and Georgian armed forces. This quickly evolved into a full-scale war between Georgia on the one side and Russia, Ossetian, and Abkhazian separatists on the other. In the evening of August 7, Georgian armed forces began pushing into South Ossetia, supported by artillery and multiple rocket launcher fire[40] on Tskhinvali (South Ossetia) on Friday August 8.

On August 8 armed formations of Russian 58th army entered South Ossetia through the Russian-controlled Roki tunnel. At the same time Russian air-force launched a series of air strikes against various targets on Georgian territory.

[ClingingMars]

The Russians are putting pressure on Israel to stop?

:lol:rollin:lol:rollin

I guess it's ok to kill them some Georgians, but not so ok to kill some Palestinians.

:lmao

-Mars

[Cry Havoc]

In July 2008, hostilities started between Ossetian separatists and Georgian armed forces. This quickly evolved into a full-scale war between Georgia on the one side and Russia, Ossetian, and Abkhazian separatists on the other. In the evening of August 7, Georgian armed forces began pushing into South Ossetia, supported by artillery and multiple rocket launcher fire[40] on Tskhinvali (South Ossetia) on Friday August 8.

On August 8 armed formations of Russian 58th army entered South Ossetia through the Russian-controlled Roki tunnel. At the same time Russian air-force launched a series of air strikes against various targets on Georgian territory.

Show me a quote from a Georgian that they want to complete eradicate the Russian people or commit acts of terrorism from within the Russian Federation, and I'll consider your rebuttal apt and remove my analogy.

[Shastafarian]

Show me a quote from a Georgian that they want to complete eradicate the Russian people or commit acts of terrorism from within the Russian Federation, and I'll consider your rebuttal apt and remove my analogy.

Are you serious? It's a bad analogy because they haven't said they want to eradicate the Russian people? Gimme a break.

[temujin]

So how many years did the georgian "president" live in Georgia?

And how many in another nation that is not exactly friend of Russia lately?

Who was pushing the the remote control buttons that guided his act, when he decided to hit fist against russian interests?

Simple questions, simple answers.


What was going on in this other nation during the "crisis"?

That's a tough one.

[Cry Havoc]

Are you serious? It's a bad analogy because they haven't said they want to eradicate the Russian people? Gimme a break.

It's a bad analogy because you're comparing an ideological, intergenerational war between two cultures with a much simpler (though not necessarily simple) border skirmish resulting from two countries who are simply too close to each other with a vastly different amount of military strength.

You can toss every act of aggression into a pot and say they are all similar, but what's the point of that? Yes, war is war and it's always people killing people, but the surrounding circumstances can often be vastly different. You would have a difficult time picking two conflicts with more differences than Georgia/Russia - Israel/Gaza.

[ClingingMars]

By Joel C. Rosenburg

(Jerusalem, Israel, January 12, 2009) -- Former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in a 25 minute conference call today with conservative bloggers in which I had the opportunity to participate, made it clear that he sees Israel's current war against Hamas in Gaza as a "just war," as a proxy war with Radical Muslim leaders in Iran, and very possibly as a prelude to a future war to stop Radicals in Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, an event he described as a "nightmare scenario."

Israel is pursuing a "just war," Netanyahu said early in the discussion. He noted that "Hamas is pursuing an illegitimate goal to accomplish the annihilation of the Jewish State" and is using "illegitimate means," including the "firing rockets on innocent civilians."

"This is a classic case of justice pitted against injustice" and "against the forces of darkness," said the Likud leader who when the war began suspended his party's campaign for the February 10th elections. "Everyone has to choose which side of the battle he is on?"

Is this really an isolated local skirmish, asked one blogger, or is there a larger story at work here?

"Our fight with Hamas," he replied, is with terrorists who have "backers in Iran" and have shown the "willingness to use any methods including firing rockets on innocent civilians….Israel is now the front line in the battle between militant Islam and the rest of the world - witness what has happened [in terms of terrorist attacks in recent years] in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Mumbai, New York, Washington….and there are enormous global consequences. Does Iran have a victory in one of its two forward outposts [the other being Hezbollah]?"

"Israel cannot tolerate an Iranian forward position [in Gaza]," he continued, saying that Israel's long-term goal needs to be blocking Iran from becoming the dominant regional power. He also noted that Israel's "immediate goal should be…removing the threat by stopping the firing and preventing the resupply of rockets and other weaponry by Hamas."

The call was organized by One Jerusalem, an organization founded in the fall of 2000 by former Israeli deputy prime minister Natan Sharansky. One Jerusalem's executive director, Allen Roth, moderated the discussion.

I had emailed in a question asking what can Jews, evangelical Christians and others can do to help Israel in the current conflict. Undoubtedly other bloggers emailed in similar questions. This was the second question posed to the former Prime Minister by Allen Roth.

"The most important thing [friends of Israel can do] is to tell the truth," Netanyahu said. "There is a campaign of lies against us," including that Israel started this conflict [they didn't], that Israel is targeting innocent Palestinian civilians [they aren't], that Israel isn't allowing humanitarian aid to enter Gaza to care for innocents who are suffering [they are]. "Get the facts straight….the facts do count….the sequence counts."

Hamas, he noted, has been "firing these rockets for eight years - eight years! Can you imagine what the U.S. would do if 6,000 rockets were fired from Mexico at San Diego? Would the U.S. wait eight years? Would they wait eight months? I don't think they would wait eight minutes to fight back."

Netanyahu pointed out that Hamas is launching rockets out of mosques, hospitals, elementary schools, universities -- putting innocent Palestinians in harm's way when Israel seeks to retaliate. "We don't deliberately target civilians, though we regret when civilians are injured or killed," he said. "That basic fact should be spoken…loud and clear by the friends of Israel and the friends of Jews."

Regarding the immediate future of the Arab-Israeli peace process, Netanyahu said "the idea that you can have a final settlement….I think that is just not realistic."

He noted that he had resigned from the cabinet in 2005 when the government of then-Prime Minister Ariel SharonGaza for free and when it came to any future potential "deals" with the Palestinians, "don't repeat the mistakes of the past." decided to give away

Before there is anymore international talk of Israel ceding territory to the Palestinians, Israel needs to pursue four strategies:

1. Fight Islamic radicals
2. Strengthen Islamic moderates
3. Reestablish security on all of Israel's borders
4. Begin rapid economic development for Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza

He was asked if he thought Hamas was holding out for the new administration of Barack Obama, hoping that Obama would put new pressure on Israel to stop fighting and accepting a potentially premature cease fire.

"I do remember Mr. Obama visited Sderot not long ago and said something to the effect that, 'If my two girls lived in a home that was rocketed by terrorists, I would do everything in my power to stop it.'" He added, "I think the U.S. has an interest in stopping terrorists wherever they are."

Netanyahu said the biggest threat Israel faces is not from Hamas, or even from Hezbollah, but from Radical Islamic terrorists or states possessing nuclear weapons. He described Iran acquiring such weapons of mass destruction as a "nightmare scenario," along with militant Islamists seizing control of Pakistan. Though he did not lay out how he would approach the Iran crisis should he be elected Prime Minister, he strongly hinted that time is running out and that the West had to take decisive action before it is too late.

Netanyahu concluded by insisting that Israel "should do everything can to return Gilad Shalit, the IDF soldier kidnapped by Hamas on June 25, 2006, though he declined to criticize the current Olmert government when asked if Olmert and his team were doing enough to bring Shalit home and to make his return a precondition of a cease fire.

Not asked -- unfortunately -- was whether Netanyahu believed Israel's government should fully invade Gaza's urban centers and bring down the Hamas leadership and terror infrastructure once and for all. It would have been useful to get his take on this because at the moment, my read is that the Olmert government is hedging on that decision. True, they have been calling up the Reserves and putting those Reserves into the Gaza theater to bolster the IDF forces already inching their way forward towards Hamas positions. But we have not seen a full scale ground campaign into Gaza's toughest urban centers, the strongholds of the Hamas forces. Instead, the Olmert government seems to be waiting for a deal to emerge with Hamas, Egypt and the international community to bring about a rapid cease fire. Many here in Israel are worried that Olmert will accept a cease fire too quickly, as he did with the Hezbollah in Lebanon in 2006. No Israeli parent wants to see another of their sons killed in combat. But scores of Israeli parents are telling me they want to see "the whole job done" -- Hamas destroyed and the rocket threat squashed once and for all. They do not want to have the nation sacrifice so much in the last sixteen days only to see the threat reemerge all over again. Finish the job, they say. Under the circumstances, I agree.

-Mars

[RandomGuy]

So how many years did the georgian "president" live in Georgia?

And how many in another nation that is not exactly friend of Russia lately?

Who was pushing the the remote control buttons that guided his act, when he decided to hit fist against russian interests?

Simple questions, simple answers.


What was going on in this other nation during the "crisis"?

That's a tough one.

The current Georgian president studied in the US for many years, getting a law degree if memory serves.

No one was "pushing the remote control buttons" that guided his act. He was stupid quite on his own.

An election was going on in the US during this crisis, among other normal goings on.

For any Russians that read this thread:

I'm sorry Russia is in the shitcan. Really I am. That doesn't mean the world is out to get you.

It is normal to want to blame everybody else but one's self for one's problems. It is the easiest thing to do. Blame others but never take responsibility for your problems.

Virulent nationalism got the Germans into 40 years of a divided state, and it will make Russia's problems worse by really isolating it.

Russia could barely take out Georgia, and luckily for the rest of the world has little capacity to really become a military superpower anytime soon. It has nuclear weapons that it can barely maintain, and that is the limit of its ability to project power in any meaningful way, other than to cut its own throat through energy embargoes.

If you guys want to be all jingoistic and think everybody is out to get you, that is your concern. Just don't expect that hostile behavior will win you any friends. The US has always extended the Russian people help when they really needed it, despite what most Russians seem to think or know about, and we will be patient and continue to do so.

This hostile relationship is almost entirely of your own making, fueled by your imagination. If you collectively ever really come to understand that, you can save yourself a lot of needless conflict, and finally put the ghosts of past empires to bed.

When you are done feeling sorry for yourselves, and are ready to grow up, we will be waiting.

Good luck, and I wish you well until then.

[DarkReign]

This hostile relationship is almost entirely of your own making, fueled by your imagination. If you collectively ever really come to understand that, you can save yourself a lot of needless conflict, and finally put the ghosts of past empires to bed.

When you are done feeling sorry for yourselves, and are ready to grow up, we will be waiting.

Good luck, and I wish you well until then.


Well said.

[RandomGuy]

Well said.

Thank you.

[Trainwreck2100]

By Joel C. Rosenburg


I can honestly say I'm shocked that this guy is pro-israel

[DarkReign]

I can honestly say I'm shocked that this guy is pro-israel

:lmao Nice catch. I usually never read bylines.

[temujin]

The current Georgian president studied in the US for many years, getting a law degree if memory serves.

No one was "pushing the remote control buttons" that guided his act. He was stupid quite on his own.

An election was going on in the US during this crisis, among other normal goings on.

For any Russians that read this thread:

I'm sorry Russia is in the shitcan.

Actually no. So, from here on, the reaoning makes little sense.

Right anwers, though, which should have led you to the right conclusion.