Bargnani available????

[superfedja]

He's not as good as the Raptors hoped he would be but he's still a former #1 pick. If we can get him for anyone except the big 4 (TP, TF, Manu, Mason) should we do it???? I think we should. He could play as PF and shoot threes if people double Duncan and he can guard guys like Nowitzki, West and Amare.

Here's the link : http://hoopshype.com/

So what do you guys think ???

[Bartleby]

No thanks, unless the Raptors are dying to just give him away. Was compared to Dirk before he was drafted, but looks more like Dirk-lite. Disappears in big games. Bonner brings much of the same and the Spurs don't have to give up anything for him.

[Indazone]

bigger version of Bonner but at least Bargnani is consistent.

[kace]

He's not as good as the Raptors hoped he would be but he's still a former #1 pick. If we can get him for anyone except the big 4 (TP, TF, Manu, Mason) should we do it???? I think we should. He could play as PF and shoot threes if people double Duncan and he can guard guys like Nowitzki, West and Amare.

Here's the link : http://hoopshype.com/

So what do you guys think ???

the big 4 is still tim, tony, manu and bruce. the same that brought us 3 titles. you'll see it come PO time.

[T Park]

I think if you think Bargnani is good, then you need to watch more basketball.

Bargnani sucks and is one of the worst number 1 picks ever.

[TDMVPDPOY]

banana > bargnani

[SenorSpur]

Dude is a freakin' bust. No thanks and no thanks.

[venitian navigator]

O.K., I'm italian, so my opinion could be "conditioned"...but...
I think we should try.
Because, for what he can give, he's the best big to play with Duncan!
He would be a big improvement over Bonner.
Can shoot like Bonner, rebounds as well as him, play better defense, can block shots better than him and he can also go in penetration.
All he needs is to play with confidence...and he could benefit of playing in a good team like ours.
Bonner, Udoka, Voughn + second choice for Bargs...I'll do it in an hartbeat!!!

[DAF86]

Bargnani for Bonner and Vaughn, I'll give it a shot.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2987~1996~874&teams=24~28~28&te=&cash=

[T Park]

Bargnani for Bonner and Vaughn, I'll give it a shot.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2987~1996~874&teams=24~28~28&te=&cash=


Gigantic fail.

[TDMVPDPOY]

bonner is puttin up better numbers than this busts

[DAF86]

Gigantic fail.

This "fail" thing sure is stupid. Tell me why do you think this is a "gigantic fail" and maybe we could have a mature discussion

[T Park]

This "fail" thing sure is stupid. Tell me why do you think this is a "gigantic fail" and maybe we could have a mature discussion

:lol

Oh pardon me.

Well, when you look at the said player in a purely rational point of view lets do.

Bargnani, stinks.

Bonner, while not an all star, is more serviceable and rebounds better, AND, shoots the ball better than Bargnani.


So maturely I say, Bargnani STINKS, Bonner, does NOT stink.

Thats why this is a gigantic bowl of pathetic fail.

[DAF86]

:lol

Oh pardon me.

Well, when you look at the said player in a purely rational point of view lets do.

Bargnani, stinks.

Bonner, while not an all star, is more serviceable and rebounds better, AND, shoots the ball better than Bargnani.


So maturely I say, Bargnani STINKS, Bonner, does NOT stink.

Thats why this is a gigantic bowl of pathetic fail.

To me they are pretty much the same with the exception that Bargnagni is a 7 footer, thing that could come in handy in the playoffs. Besides with Bonner you know that what you're getting is pretty much all you can get. With Bargnani there's always the chance that he starts playing at the level he's supossed to and if he doesn't, who cares? we'll still be getting the same production in a bigger, younger body.

[Kori Ellis]

In the couple games that he got to start recently, he played well (26/6 and 19/6). In today's game, he has 13 at the half. So maybe he just needs to start :lol

[cherylsteele]

To me they are pretty much the same with the exception that Bargnagni is a 7 footer, thing that could come in handy in the playoffs. Besides with Bonner you know that what you're getting is pretty much all you can get. With Bargnani there's always the chance that he starts playing at the level he's supossed to and if he doesn't, who cares? we'll still be getting the same production in a bigger, younger body.
So......let me get this straight.
You think they are pretty much the same player but yet you want to get rid of of the player who has been showing improvment over someone who has not, just because Bargnani is taller? If the Spurs needed someone just because he was tall they would have kept Uwe Blab awhile back.

Bargnani should be at WalMart working customer service helping little old ladies reach the top shelf in the hardware dept., because his NBA skills are nil.

[itzsoweezee]

Bonner is better than Bargnani

[DAF86]

So......let me get this straight.
You think they are pretty much the same player but yet you want to get rid of of the player who has been showing improvment over someone who has not, just because Bargnani is taller? If the Spurs needed someone just because he was tall they would have kept Uwe Blab awhile back.

Bargnani should be at WalMart working customer service helping little old ladies reach the top shelf in the hardware dept., because his NBA skills are nil.

They have kind of the same style of play with the difference that Bargnani is taller, younger and more talented. That's why I would trade him for Bonner.

[cherylsteele]

They have kind of the same style of play with the difference that Bargnani is taller, younger and more talented. That's why I would trade him for Bonner.
Thank god you're not the Spurs' GM.

[DAF86]

Thank god you're not the Spurs' GM.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2987

Check out the last 5 games and tell me if you think Bonner could put those numbers.

[hater]

fuck no!

another shooter who is afraid of contact. fuck no!!!!

[cherylsteele]

Actaully....I think he could....if he was in Toronto.

[DAF86]

Actaully....I think he could....if he was in Toronto.

The 5 blocks in one game also?

If the Raptors are serious about getting rid of Bargnani I will go for it no doubt. I think that playing in a well coached contender is what this kid needs.

[velik_m]

For a shooter he sure sucks at shooting.

[mathbzh]

He is only 23 and he has time to improve, but right now he would not be better than Matt.

That said, I will wait at least 2 more years before calling him a bust. Of course for a #1 pick he is not good. But this draft was just weak.

[lefty]

He just scored 18 pts in a win VS Magic

[DAF86]

18 pts 7/15 fg 2/5 3pt 5rbds 3assts 1stl

Another good game against a top team in the NBA.

If we will be getting this kind of production from another big besides Tim, a lot of the guys here that are bashing Bargnani will be bragging of how good the Spurs are.

[DPG21920]

You guys are crazy if you think the Spurs would not trade for Bargs in a second if all it took was Bonner and Vaughn.

[DPG21920]

LOL, Timvp knows I would shit myself if the Spurs got Bargs. I have long said he would be a great compliment for Duncan (especially if he improves his rebounding bc his shot blocking has improved this year).

[jag]

To me they are pretty much the same with the exception that Bargnagni is a 7 footer, thing that could come in handy in the playoffs. Besides with Bonner you know that what you're getting is pretty much all you can get. With Bargnani there's always the chance that he starts playing at the level he's supossed to and if he doesn't, who cares? we'll still be getting the same production in a bigger, younger body.

I agree. They have similar skill sets but Bargnani is more athletic, taller, and has more upside.

[jag]

Bargnani should be at WalMart working customer service helping little old ladies reach the top shelf in the hardware dept., because his NBA skills are nil.

I think you're too obsessed with disliking Bargnani that you refuse to think logically.

[Austin_Toros]

if you think Bonner is better than Bargnani you must be sick in the head.

Bargnani is no star, but getting him would be a nice addition- especially if Bonner was traded for him.

[Tully365]

Bargnani is 5 years younger than Bonner, and a legit shot blocker. Bonner's having his best three point shooting year ever, but careerwise he shoots 40% from 3 and Bargnani shoots 36%. Not that big a difference. Bargnani also gets to the free throw line-- something Bonner almost never does.

[exstatic]

For a shooter he sure sucks at shooting.

???

.366 3G% this year and .360 career means he "sucks at shooting"?

I think he's a bust as a #1 pick, but he's probably performing with most of his draft class. To call him an NBA bust is definitely premature and unwarranted.

[DPG21920]

???

.366 3G% this year and .360 career means he "sucks at shooting"?

I think he's a bust as a #1 pick, but he's probably performing with most of his draft class. To call him an NBA bust is definitely premature and unwarranted.

Not to mention he is shooting like 86% from the ft line. way to early to call him a bust. A bad number 1 pick, no doubt, but not a bust.......yet.

[Tully365]

:lol

Oh pardon me.

Well, when you look at the said player in a purely rational point of view lets do.

Bargnani, stinks.

Bonner, while not an all star, is more serviceable and rebounds better, AND, shoots the ball better than Bargnani.


So maturely I say, Bargnani STINKS, Bonner, does NOT stink.

Thats why this is a gigantic bowl of pathetic fail.

Why not mention all of the relevant stats, and not just the ones that favor your pick? Bargnani is a much better shot-blocker, & he gets to the free throw line much more than Bonner (Bargnani is 62-72 from the FT line this year... Bonner is 6-7-- yes, Bonner has gotten to the FT line seven times this entire season). Bonner's rebounds per minute are higher than Bargnani (9.9 compared to 7.9), but Bonner has also played center most of this year while Bargnani has often been used at the SF position, so he should have higher numbers. I'd say that as far as rebounding goes, neither is outstanding and they're probably about the same.

[Darthkiller]

are you spurs fans for real? Bargnani >>>>>>>>>>>>Bonner

[lefty]

Timvp will have a heart attack if Andrea becomes a Spur

But hey, Timmy+Bosh+Barganana would be great

One can dream....

[T Park]

while Bargnani has often been used at the SF position, so he should have higher numbers

Because when he was played at the center position he failed miserably.

Theres alread been an excruciating amount of threads in the basketball forum detailing the failures of Bargnani.

[Mr. Body]

You guys are crazy if you think the Spurs would not trade for Bargs in a second if all it took was Bonner and Vaughn.

No joke. Lots of teams have more to offer -- and would, if he were available. Who cares if he's not a great #1 pick? Bags is a nice player and I'd love to have him.

[Whisky Dog]

Bustgnani is better than Bonner, but why would Toronto want Bonner? They already had him and got rid of him. Any trade would probably be multi team and involve Manu. I wouldn't do it.

[cherylsteele]

I think you're too obsessed with disliking Bargnani that you refuse to think logically.
Bonner and Bargnani are simmilar style players, we have a pretty good idea what both can and cannot do. I do not dislike Bargnani, but if you are comparing the 2 I'd keep Bonner. You really aren't gaining or losing anything if you swapped the 2 players.

[InK]

You guys are crazy if you think the Spurs would not trade for Bargs in a second if all it took was Bonner and Vaughn.

They would, Toronto wont. Nice fantasy, lets move on.

[Tully365]

Theres alread been an excruciating amount of threads in the basketball forum detailing the failures of Bargnani.

:lol T Park is one of those people who think if it's been said on Spurstalk by someone with lots of posts then it must be true. You might want to check the number of threads detailing the shortcomings of Bonner while you're at it...

[HarlemHeat37]

I follow the Raptors and I used to live in Ontario, they're my 3rd favorite team next to the Spurs and Nets..

Bargnani isn't as bad as a lot of you think he is..

he is NOT a pure shooter..that's what he was supposed to be, but he isn't..he's not a guy that is a near-guarantee to make shots when he's open..he's a streaky shooter..

the advantage he has over other bigs is his ability to drive..when Bargs is on, he drives to the basket really well..his problems with consistency are due to a few factors..he has confidence issues, where his offense becomes too robotic..he knows what he's going to do before he gets the ball, which makes him predictable at times..the other problem with his offense is that the Raptors keep switching him from the 3 to 5 positions..

he's a SOLID low post defender..he's improved a lot in that regard, especially with his help D..he still needs to get better on the boards, but he's improved from years past..the difference with him this year is that he can provide in other parts when his offense is off..

his problem continues to be consistency, and we'll see how that holds up..he's still young though..

we CAN'T get him though..we don't have the pieces to get him..

btw, he's definitely better than Bonner..

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

bigger version of Bonner but at least Bargnani is consistent.

Huh? No he's not. That's his major problem. Check his game log:

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andrea_bargnani/game_by_game_stats.html

He is the antithesis of consistent.

That being said, I'm fascinated about what he might be able to do here.

[ploto]

In the couple games that he got to start recently, he played well (26/6 and 19/6). In today's game, he has 13 at the half. So maybe he just needs to start :lol

Andrea has pulled his semi-annual "I suck off the bench but play hard when I start so you better start me."

[ploto]

Its NY Daily News, but still...

They've already changed coaches - when they were 8-9 - so now the Raptors, eight games under .500 as of Friday, might have to start making deals as they continue to underachieve and sink in the East. One rival Eastern Conference GM said that Andrea Bargnani, the No. 1 overall pick in 2006, and Anthony Parker are prime candidates to be moved, as they look to add athleticism on the wings. In the meantime, Jermaine O'Neal has been sidelined with yet another knee injury.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/columnists/lawrence/index.html

[benefactor]

as they look to add athleticism on the wings.
Well that takes us out of the running.

[L.I.T]

The list of players averaging over a block and a three is:

Lebron James: 1.2 3s, 1.2 Blks
Danny Granger: 2.5 3s, 1.4 Blks
Rasheed Wallace: 1.9 3s, 1.6 Blks
Andrea Bargnani: 1.1 3s, 1.4 Blks

On the cusp: Kevin Durant (1.3 3s, .9 Blks), Dirk Nowitzki (1.0 3s, .8 Blks), Wilson Chandler (1.1 3s, .8 Blks), Jamario Moon (.6 3s, .8 Blks), Mehmet Okur (1.0 3s, .7 Blks), Rudy Gay (1.3 3s, .7 Blks), Francisco Garcia (.9 3s, .9 Blks)

He may be a bust at number 1, but he definitely has a unique skill-set and seems to be improving. Spurs could do a lot worse.

[Austin_Toros]

1. He doesnt play centre
2. I dont think theres anybody we could trade to get him


Andrea has pulled his semi-annual "I suck off the bench but play hard when I start so you better start me."
yeah, i have noticed that actually.

[bobbybob0]

18 pts 7/15 fg 2/5 3pt 5rbds 3assts 1stl

Another good game against a top team in the NBA.

If we will be getting this kind of production from another big besides Tim, a lot of the guys here that are bashing Bargnani will be bragging of how good the Spurs are.

This looks like bonner's line on a good night.

That doesn't solve the rebounding issue.

[Yorae]

Forget it, he doesn't have the aura that bonner gives off....And if Bonner evolves into Super Bonner, Bargnanny will cower in fear!!!

[Ditty]

bargini is good he still has rooom to improve to a nowitski imagine

i would take him over bonner

who would we trade it would kind of dumb for toronto to trade for him hes a heck of a player

i saw him the other nite against houston

hes still devoloping

[HarlemHeat37]

he's never going to reach Dirk..

I dislike him, but he's the most underrated player in the NBA..a lot of people seem to forget how good he is, just because the Mavs aren't as good..

[Mr. Body]

The list of players averaging over a block and a three is:

Lebron James: 1.2 3s, 1.2 Blks
Danny Granger: 2.5 3s, 1.4 Blks
Rasheed Wallace: 1.9 3s, 1.6 Blks
Andrea Bargnani: 1.1 3s, 1.4 Blks

On the cusp: Kevin Durant (1.3 3s, .9 Blks), Dirk Nowitzki (1.0 3s, .8 Blks), Wilson Chandler (1.1 3s, .8 Blks), Jamario Moon (.6 3s, .8 Blks), Mehmet Okur (1.0 3s, .7 Blks), Rudy Gay (1.3 3s, .7 Blks), Francisco Garcia (.9 3s, .9 Blks)

He may be a bust at number 1, but he definitely has a unique skill-set and seems to be improving. Spurs could do a lot worse.

Danny Granger is awesome.

[MarHill]

I think if you think Bargnani is good, then you need to watch more basketball.

Bargnani sucks and is one of the worst number 1 picks ever.


:lmao :lmao

[benefactor]

Danny Granger is awesome.
I would trade Manu for him.....:stirpot:

[DPG21920]

I would trade Manu for him.....:stirpot:

Easy. Everyone on the Spurs and their fans would rejoice.

[papashango]

First off, I don't even think you can consider him a bust yet. He's shown his potential. I think if he played in a offense like D'Antoni's he'd flourish. If I were the Knicks i'd try to actually go after him. But I don't think he's available. Fact is, he's 23. Raptors would be fools to get rid of him at this young age. He's raw. But when you watch him play you can tell there's something there.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

First off, I don't even think you can consider him a bust yet. He's shown his potential. I think if he played in a offense like D'Antoni's he'd flourish. If I were the Knicks i'd try to actually go after him. But I don't think he's available. Fact is, he's 23. Raptors would be fools to get rid of him at this young age. He's raw. But when you watch him play you can tell there's something there.

About the best post in this thread.

I reckon Bargnani will discover his true game over the next 1-2 seasons and become a pretty fearsome player.

People forget how long it takes a lot of players to adjust to the NBA game, especially bigs. It can take 5 or 6 years to see a player's true potential realised.

If we could arrange a trade that doesn't touch our core (TD, TP, Manu, Bruce, Money, Hill) for him, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I think he'd thrive in a positive locker room with an excellent coach.

[Ditty]

Danny Granger is awesome.

is he going to be free agent this offseason

MLE?

[Manufan909]

About the best post in this thread.

I reckon Bargnani will discover his true game over the next 1-2 seasons and become a pretty fearsome player.

People forget how long it takes a lot of players to adjust to the NBA game, especially bigs. It can take 5 or 6 years to see a player's true potential realised.

If we could arrange a trade that doesn't touch our core (TD, TP, Manu, Bruce, Money, Hill) for him, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I think he'd thrive in a positive locker room with an excellent coach.

What do you suppose his true style is?

And for the stat buffs, which position does he do better at, SF or C? To me, he sounds like someone who could guard the Wests and Dirks of the WCF, but for all I know his 1-1 defense could suck major ass, I haven't really followed him.

[Chieflion]

is he going to be free agent this offseason

MLE?

Corey Maggette got 10 million per year. Granger is better than him.


Bargnani for um...
Spurs do not even have the pieces for a trade for Bargs....Dam.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

What do you suppose his true style is?

And for the stat buffs, which position does he do better at, SF or C? To me, he sounds like someone who could guard the Wests and Dirks of the WCF, but for all I know his 1-1 defense could suck major ass, I haven't really followed him.

Not quite sure yet - he can shoot, post, but doesn't seem to be much of a ball-handler so he's not great on the drive. He's put on a lot of weight so his post defense has improved, and he's also a decent weakside shot-blocker when he feels like it. He could be Sheed-lite if he ever gets his head together, or even better if he goes inside more and also develops a better drive. Hard to tell what he'll be, but I am intrigued by it.

5 guys, off the top of my head, who really need a change of scenery to unearth (or get back to) their true game:
Bargnani
Ty Thomas
Sam Dalembert
Sean Marion
Chris Kaman

[Rogue]

It's good to trade some of our wasted contracts for him who is still not fully discovered. what the raptors need is one or a pair of good wings, and finley may be preferable to the raptors though he is old. I would even add bowen to this trade if necessary, but no way I would trade one of our big three for him. We should bring any trade into consideration except those that involve our big three. Negotiation doesn't hurt our team but a good trade can upgrade our talent significantly. As the raptors has vended their former no.1 draft, I don't think they expect too much from him otherwise they would retain him. here is a good chance for any other team to get such a talented PF. Plus, he can definitely help his team expand market in Itlay.

[mrspurs]

Dude is a freakin' bust. No thanks and no thanks.

Kinda leaning your direction. But we all know Pop loves a big who can shoot from beyond the arc, over a big who can rebound and block shots. Well at least it seems that way as of late.

[mrspurs]

Bonner is better than Bargnani

Not even close. I like the Red Rocket but hes not better then Bargnani. Just look at the Video games.:lol Even the little kids know the difference.

[timvp]

Bargnani is the Anti-Spur ... and not in the good way like Stephen Jackson was.

-He doesn't try if he doesn't start. :lol @ thinking how that would go over playing for Pop.

-He's literally the worst bigman pick-and-roll defender in the league. The last few times the Spurs have gone against the Raptors, Pop just uses the gameplan of putting Bargnani in pick-and-rolls repeatedly. During the regular season, Pop rarely targets a poor defender ... but he attacks Bargnani non-stop.

-He sucks at rebounding. The next contested rebound he pulls down will be his first.

-His attitude is crap. He pouts when things aren't going his way and struggles with any type of adversity.

-And while I don't have much of a problem with his offensive game, his scoring rate just continues to go down and down. He was scoring best during his rookie season. He'd need to average a lot of points to overcome his weaknesses ... so his scoring drying up isn't a good sign.

Bargnani could put up good stats on a bad team but I highly doubt he'll ever do anything for a winning team. I wouldn't want anything to do with him on the Spurs. He'd be a horrible fit defensively and his personality would have Pop going Sprewell on him in about two weeks. Bargnani makes Beno look like Tim Duncan when it comes to having a team-first and winning attitude.

[temujin]

Bargnani is the Anti-Spur ... and not in the good way like Stephen Jackson was.

-He doesn't try if he doesn't start. :lol @ thinking how that would go over playing for Pop.

-He's literally the worst bigman pick-and-roll defender in the league. The last few times the Spurs have gone against the Raptors, Pop just uses the gameplan of putting Bargnani in pick-and-rolls repeatedly. During the regular season, Pop rarely targets a poor defender ... but he attacks Bargnani non-stop.

-He sucks at rebounding. The next contested rebound he pulls down will be his first.

-His attitude is crap. He pouts when things aren't going his way and struggles with any type of adversity.

-And while I don't have much of a problem with his offensive game, his scoring rate just continues to go down and down. He was scoring best during his rookie season. He'd need to average a lot of points to overcome his weaknesses ... so his scoring drying up isn't a good sign.

Bargnani could put up good stats on a bad team but I highly doubt he'll ever do anything for a winning team. I wouldn't want anything to do with him on the Spurs. He'd be a horrible fit defensively and his personality would have Pop going Sprewell on him in about two weeks. Bargnani makes Beno look like Tim Duncan when it comes to having a team-first and winning attitude.

I totally quote.

Zero (zero) defense.

I-don't-care attitude.

No balls whatsoever.

He wilol get his 10 ppg in another 2 or 3 lousy NBA teams over the next 3 or 4 years, get rich and finally head back to Europe, where he will continue his nonsense, loosing career.

Another Udrih, with more height and far less talent.

[ClingingMars]

Bonner is better than Bargnani

[DPG21920]

In the couple games that he got to start recently, he played well (26/6 and 19/6). In today's game, he has 13 at the half. So maybe he just needs to start :lol


http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2987

Check out the last 5 games and tell me if you think Bonner could put those numbers.


The 5 blocks in one game also?

If the Raptors are serious about getting rid of Bargnani I will go for it no doubt. I think that playing in a well coached contender is what this kid needs.


He just scored 18 pts in a win VS Magic


18 pts 7/15 fg 2/5 3pt 5rbds 3assts 1stl

Another good game against a top team in the NBA.

If we will be getting this kind of production from another big besides Tim, a lot of the guys here that are bashing Bargnani will be bragging of how good the Spurs are.


???

.366 3G% this year and .360 career means he "sucks at shooting"?

I think he's a bust as a #1 pick, but he's probably performing with most of his draft class. To call him an NBA bust is definitely premature and unwarranted.


Not to mention he is shooting like 86% from the ft line. way to early to call him a bust. A bad number 1 pick, no doubt, but not a bust.......yet.


I follow the Raptors and I used to live in Ontario, they're my 3rd favorite team next to the Spurs and Nets..

Bargnani isn't as bad as a lot of you think he is..

he is NOT a pure shooter..that's what he was supposed to be, but he isn't..he's not a guy that is a near-guarantee to make shots when he's open..he's a streaky shooter..

the advantage he has over other bigs is his ability to drive..when Bargs is on, he drives to the basket really well..his problems with consistency are due to a few factors..he has confidence issues, where his offense becomes too robotic..he knows what he's going to do before he gets the ball, which makes him predictable at times..the other problem with his offense is that the Raptors keep switching him from the 3 to 5 positions..

he's a SOLID low post defender..he's improved a lot in that regard, especially with his help D..he still needs to get better on the boards, but he's improved from years past..the difference with him this year is that he can provide in other parts when his offense is off..

his problem continues to be consistency, and we'll see how that holds up..he's still young though..

we CAN'T get him though..we don't have the pieces to get him..

btw, he's definitely better than Bonner..

Bargnani had 21 points on 7 of 13 shooting, including 5 of 6 from downtown and 2-2 at the line. He also had 8 rebounds, 2 assist, and 1 blk tonight.

[Austin_Toros]

Forget it, he doesn't have the aura that bonner gives off....And if Bonner evolves into Super Bonner, Bargnanny will cower in fear!!!

Why do idiots think that Bonner is better than Bargnani? It must be because they're idiots.

Bargnani is and always will be better than Bonner and I would like to see him on the spurs roster. He might not be deserving of being the #1 pick, but he has potential.

[Rapper]

Are you sure Mason now is one of the Big 4??

How about Hill and Finley?

Finley is so hurt to hear that

[DPG21920]

Dude, Bargnani has been playing extremely well for over a month now. Over the last month he is averaging:

49% from the field, 81% from the line, 43% from 3, 17.3 points, 5.3 rebounds, 1.2 ast and .8 blks (which is down from his season avg.).

He has also hit 2 or more 3's in 10 consecutive games which is an NBA record for centers.

[Ghost Writer]

I like the strides that Bargnani has been making, but the Spurs need a big man who can hit the offensive boards and block a few shots...





... since David Robinson retired.

[Darthkiller]

I think if you think Bargnani is good, then you need to watch more basketball.

Bargnani sucks and is one of the worst number 1 picks ever.


EPIC FAIL

[SenorSpur]

Pass

[Rogue]

he's never going to reach Dirk..

I dislike him, but he's the most underrated player in the NBA..a lot of people seem to forget how good he is, just because the Mavs aren't as good..
agreed, no one can reach Dirk who is among the greatest players of all time.

A seat in the HOF has already been booked for Dirk.

[DPG21920]

Now you cannot truly say that Bargnani would not help the Spurs. He has his flaws, but if you have watched him consistently this year, you can see his game growing.

[EricB]

Yeah that 8 of 21 shooting performance really sold me.

[DPG21920]

Yeah that 8 of 21 shooting performance really sold me.

Myopic. Look it up.

[DPG21920]

Yeah that 8 of 21 shooting performance really sold me.

Do Spurs need someone with size? Check. Do Spurs like big men that can stretch the floor? Check. Do the Spurs need youth and upside? Check.


Did I say trade the big 3 for him? No. I said he could help the Spurs for sure and he is still growing his game.

[EricB]

Do Spurs need someone with size? Check. Do Spurs like big men that can stretch the floor? Check. Do the Spurs need youth and upside? Check.


Did I say trade the big 3 for him? No. I said he could help the Spurs for sure and he is still growing his game.

Do the Spurs need a bigman that shudders at the thought of rebounding and going to the basket?

No

[coyotes_geek]

Do Spurs need someone with size? Check. Do Spurs like big men that can stretch the floor? Check. Do the Spurs need youth and upside? Check.


Did I say trade the big 3 for him? No. I said he could help the Spurs for sure and he is still growing his game.

Yeah, the Spurs need size. But they need size that's actually going to help the Spurs take back control of the paint. Bargnani won't do that. Bargnani is coming along nicely, but he's not going to go bang down low and alter shots. The Spurs need a true center. Bargnani is basically just a 7 foot small forward at this point.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, the Spurs need size. But they need size that's actually going to help the Spurs take back control of the paint. Bargnani won't do that. Bargnani is coming along nicely, but he's not going to go bang down low and alter shots. The Spurs need a true center. Bargnani is basically just a 7 foot small forward at this point.

He is averaging over a block a game. He is exactly the type of big the Spurs like and that gives Tim room to operate down low. His defense does need work, but he is athletic enough to learn.

[DPG21920]

Do the Spurs need a bigman that shudders at the thought of rebounding and going to the basket?

No

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For someone that "shudders" at the thought of going to the rim, he sure does have a lot of highlight dunks. Please exit the thread.

[coyotes_geek]

He is averaging over a block a game. He is exactly the type of big the Spurs like and that gives Tim room to operate down low. His defense does need work, but he is athletic enough to learn.

Matt Bonner gives Tim room to operate. Yeah, Bargnani is better than Bonner, but we don't need a better Matt Bonner. We need someone who gives Tim the freedom to freelance on defense. We also need that someone immediately. Time spent waiting out a learning curve on Bargnani is time lost on Tim Duncan's career where he doesn't have the frontcourt help he needs.

[DPG21920]

Oh and here is another video of Bargnani cowering before the rim for the poster formerly known as TPark aka "The Big Emo"

XnI7RS7e67s

[DPG21920]

Matt Bonner gives Tim room to operate. Yeah, Bargnani is better than Bonner, but we don't need a better Matt Bonner. We need someone who gives Tim the freedom to freelance on defense. We also need that someone immediately. Time spent waiting out a learning curve on Bargnani is time lost on Tim Duncan's career where he doesn't have the frontcourt help he needs.

He is an able defender, especially if you put him in a system. He could definitely hang with Gasol, he has the speed and footwork and length to bother him. Not to mention the type of offense he has.

Plus he has shown he can do it in the playoffs, unlike Bonner.

Your assertion that this current team needs a big down low immediately is overstated. This current team can win as is if they play better and getting a guy like Bargs would indeed help now.

[ploto]

Nine points in the last half of the fourth quarter against the Spurs.


We need someone who gives Tim the freedom to freelance on defense.
We traded away all those guys and went for Matt Bonner who definitely does NOT do this.

The Raptors will admit they should have just kept Rasho and started Andrea and Bosh- using TJ if they insisted on trading him for help on the wing.

[coyotes_geek]

He is an able defender, especially if you put him in a system. He could definitely hang with Gasol, he has the speed and footwork and length to bother him. Not to mention the type of offense he has.

Plus he has shown he can do it in the playoffs, unlike Bonner.

Your assertion that this current team needs a big down low immediately is overstated. This current team can win as is if they play better and getting a guy like Bargs would indeed help now.

Gasol's numbers against Toronto this year are 28 & 12, so that doesn't support your point very well. And as for the Spurs need for a big, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[EricB]

:lmao

So some youtube videos = slasher


Genius arguement.

[coyotes_geek]

Nine points in the last half of the fourth quarter against the Spurs.

Bargnani can score. I don't dispute that.


We traded away all those guys and went for Matt Bonner who definitely does NOT do this.

The Raptors will admit they should have just kept Rasho and started Andrea and Bosh- using TJ if they insisted on trading him for help on the wing.

After the Dallas series in 2006 the Spurs thought they needed a quicker lineup. Dallas folded and the lakers got real big up front all of a sudden. Had the Spurs known ahead of time that would happen, perhaps they wouldn't have dumped Rasho. I'd take Rasho back on this team in a heartbeat. He's exactly the type of guy we need. IMO at least.

[EricB]

Bargnani can score. I don't dispute that.



After the Dallas series in 2006 the Spurs thought they needed a quicker lineup. Dallas folded and the lakers got real big up front all of a sudden. Had the Spurs known ahead of time that would happen, perhaps they wouldn't have dumped Rasho.


They would've still dumped Rasho because he was recockulously overpaid.

[DPG21920]

:lmao

So some youtube videos = slasher


Genius arguement.

Where is your proof that he is afraid to attack? Did I call him a slasher? I simply posted evidence to refute your claims that he shudders at the thought of going to the rack.

All I did is expose what everyone here already knows about you: you talk about guys whom you clearly do not watch.

[ploto]

Gasol's numbers against Toronto this year are 28 & 12, so that doesn't support your point very well. And as for the Spurs need for a big, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

That does not tell you what happened when Andrea specifically was on him. And he surely defends Gasol better than Bonner does. Actually, Andrea is pretty good as a one-on-one defender in the post.

[senorglory]

Well, when you look at the said player in a purely rational point of view lets do.

This is big bowl of grammar and punctuation fail.

[DPG21920]

Gasol's numbers against Toronto this year are 28 & 12, so that doesn't support your point very well. And as for the Spurs need for a big, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

That is like saying teams numbers against the Spurs this year prove that the Spurs are a bad defensive team. They are not a bad defensive team, they are a good defensive team playing bad defense right now.

[coyotes_geek]

They would've still dumped Rasho because he was recockulously overpaid.

I'm not so sure. Yeah he's overpaid, but him being overpaid has no affect how how effective he was in helping Tim anchor the defense.

[coyotes_geek]

That does not tell you what happened when Andrea specifically was on him. And he surely defends Gasol better than Bonner does. Actually, Andrea is pretty good as a one-on-one defender in the post.

That's a fair point. And I'll be the first to admit I don't get to (or particularly want to) watch Raptor game regularly. But from what I have seen I respectfully disagree about Bargnani's capabilities on post defense. That's not to say I don't think he's a good player. He is. I just don't think he's someone who can address what I percieve to be the Spurs weaknesses.

[DPG21920]

I'm not so sure. Yeah he's overpaid, but him being overpaid has no affect how how effective he was in helping Tim anchor the defense.

I would say that the Spurs perimeter defense is the biggest problem. That is where you see the slippage (and that coincides with Bowen getting less burn). As mentioned by others, Bargnani is a much better one-on-one low block defender than you give him credit for.

His perimeter defense is suspect, but if he is not guarding SF's and guarding the bigs of the other teams, he is not as bad. He could learn to be a better P&R defender on the Spurs. He has the footwork and speed.

[EricB]

I'm not so sure. Yeah he's overpaid, but him being overpaid has no affect how how effective he was in helping Tim anchor the defense.

Him being overpaid affected OTHER personnel moves. If you could do football like reconstructing of contracts, then yeah Rasho would've stayed.

[EricB]

This is big bowl of grammar and punctuation fail.

:lol

Yeah cause thats what we shoot for here.

[EricB]

Where is your proof that he is afraid to attack? Did I call him a slasher? I simply posted evidence to refute your claims that he shudders at the thought of going to the rack.

All I did is expose what everyone here already knows about you: you talk about guys whom you clearly do not watch.

Where is my proof?

When hes guarded tight at the perimiter and when he pump fakes, he doesn't drive, he stays out on the perimiter!


OOOO, you EXPOSED me, by using 3 you tube videos.

Rasho nesterovic was afraid to dunk and was soft. Thats a fact. But you can find 3 youtube videos of Rasho dunking and say "HES NOT SOFT HE DUNKED RIGHT HERE" it doesn't make your arguement anymore true.

[coyotes_geek]

I would say that the Spurs perimeter defense is the biggest problem. That is where you see the slippage (and that coincides with Bowen getting less burn). As mentioned by others, Bargnani is a much better one-on-one low block defender than you give him credit for.

His perimeter defense is suspect, but if he is not guarding SF's and guarding the bigs of the other teams, he is not as bad. He could learn to be a better P&R defender on the Spurs. He has the footwork and speed.

Is the perimeter defense really worse than it has been, or are we just noticing it more because the Spurs don't have that second big man next to Tim to help erase those mistakes made out on the perimeter? Be it guards/sf's getting to the rim or pf/c's scoring in the low post this team is giving up way too many points in the paint. IMO, only a pf/c is going to correct that.

[DPG21920]

Is the perimeter defense really worse than it has been, or are we just noticing it more because the Spurs don't have that second big man next to Tim to help erase those mistakes made out on the perimeter? Be it guards/sf's getting to the rim or pf/c's scoring in the low post this team is giving up way too many points in the paint. IMO, only a pf/c is going to correct that.

I think it is quite obvious that when you take out Bowen, the defense is worse. That is not a lack of bigs. I am not saying the big you are describing would not help, I just think it is overstated some.

[DPG21920]

Where is my proof?

When hes guarded tight at the perimiter and when he pump fakes, he doesn't drive, he stays out on the perimiter!


OOOO, you EXPOSED me, by using 3 you tube videos.

Rasho nesterovic was afraid to dunk and was soft. Thats a fact. But you can find 3 youtube videos of Rasho dunking and say "HES NOT SOFT HE DUNKED RIGHT HERE" it doesn't make your arguement anymore true.

Everyone can go to the rack more. People on here get mad a Ginobili for pump faking then taking 3's, does that mean Ginobili is afraid to go to the rim?

He is young and has shown on numerous occasions that he will take it strong to the rim. Can he do it more? Yes. He is still learning and has shown flashes of being very, very good all around. Don't just throw out random crap when you clearly do not watch him consistently enough to do so.

The videos just show you the ability. They help to show that you are wrong. So just because it is a youtube video means you should dismiss it? Lets go with your method and just throw random shit out there and post no form of evidence what so ever then dismiss what others bring. You never lose!

[coyotes_geek]

I think it is quite obvious that when you take out Bowen, the defense is worse. That is not a lack of bigs. I am not saying the big you are describing would not help, I just think it is overstated some.

I certainly hope that you're right and that I'm wrong about this.

[wisnub]

Bargnani is originally viewed as young nowitzki. He is a big man who can shoot jumper and consistent 3 as well. Problem is that he is not developing the way people expect him to be. I saw him playing couple of times. Actually he's preety good. But somehow he just stop developing and sucks bad at times. But if Pop get his hand on him,he should be okay. I mean Bonner is turning into Super Bonner. I saw him playing in Italian League and his early days looking solid. After a while, he sucks and dissapeared. Raptors is not a good team, he should be in Spurs. I think as long as it didnt involved 5 starters plus Manu, we should give it a try...this guy can shoot 3 and Chip can polish his shooting skills, he is young so he got time on his side provided he got proper Spurs counselling.