Pau Gasol is more valuable than Kobe.

[Rapper]

It's true

you can see that actually Pau is more important than kobe to the Lakers

Kobe just focuses on scoring and he shot too much

Look at Gasol, jumper,Rebs, assist, hook shot, Dunk, offense, defense,he is a total package so that he is the real MVP in the Lakers.

Playing without Gasol, Lakers is nothing

[xtremesteven33]

:tu

[JamStone]

LMAO!

So the Lakers without Kobe but with Pau as the #1 guy would be something?

It's like making an argument that without Tony Parker the Spurs would be nothing.

It's a team game. Even Jordan and Shaq and Duncan didn't win all by themselves. Other key players help make a team a contender, a champion.

[Rapper]

LMAO!

So the Lakers without Kobe but with Pau as the #1 guy would be something?

It's like making an argument that without Tony Parker the Spurs would be nothing.

It's a team game. Even Jordan and Shaq and Duncan didn't win all by themselves. Other key players help make a team a contender, a champion.

Man don't misunderstand

Kobe is good but i just mean that Gasol is more significant than Kobe

It's hard to say that without Parker the spurs would be nothing

But everyone in the world knows that without Duncan the spurs would be nothing

and you must know that what was going on to the lakers in past few seasons

Kobe= one man show = nothing

jump to conclusion, kobe can't win MVP and championship without a good big man

[monosylab1k]

I believe a team has already tried making Pau their #1 option. That experiment failed so bad that they traded him away for Kwame Brown.

This has gotta be the stupidest thread ever made on this site.

[Ballin Boy]

pau is just another white girl kobe likes to fuck

[TheMACHINE]

pau is just another white girl kobe likes to fuck

still living in 2004? Oh yah..pistons fan..i guess i would be too.

[dirk4mvp]

I believe a team has already tried making Pau their #1 option. That experiment failed so bad that they traded him away for Kwame Brown.

This has gotta be the stupidest thread ever made on this site.


lmao he was surrounded by shit like Jason Williams, Stromile Swift, and Lorenzen Wright. Not too many players will do much in that situation.

[Findog]

I believe a team has already tried making Pau their #1 option. That experiment failed so bad that they traded him away for Kwame Brown.

This has gotta be the stupidest thread ever made on this site.

I detect troll

[lil_penny]

Pau is a great player but there's no way in hell he's more valuable than kobe.

[Ballin Boy]

still living in 2004? Oh yah..pistons fan..i guess i would be too.

do you realllly have that fag in your avatar? tell me your a girl please:lol

[dirk4mvp]

Without Pau Gasol, the Lakers take a L on Christmas, thus resulting in every Lakerfan's vagina on this site to throb with pain. You'd think they'd be a little more grateful.

[Ballin Boy]

still living in 2004? Oh yah..pistons fan..i guess i would be too.



oh and how many titles have you won since 04? or in 04? lol gtfo

[turiaf for president]

I believe a team has already tried making Pau their #1 option. That experiment failed so bad that they traded him away for Kwame Brown.

This has gotta be the stupidest thread ever made on this site.

werd.... i think the OP forgot pau never won a single GAME in the playoffs before coming to la as the 2nd option.....

[dirk4mvp]

werd.... i think the OP forgot pau never won a single GAME in the playoffs before coming to la as the 2nd option.....


Do you realize how bad those playoff teams he was on before?

[turiaf for president]

they were good enough to win 50 games......

point is to compare his value to kobe on a basketball team is stupid. Pau plays much more comfortably as the teams 2nd option.

[peskypesky]

retarded thread

[monosylab1k]

Do you realize how bad those playoff teams he was on before?

They were a 5 seed once in a very competitive Western Conference....you can't be Pau Gasol + shit for that to happen. No harm in admitting Pau is soft and a shitty team leader, he is what he is and the Grizz figured it out.

And we also saw that Paul Gasol + shit = "holy crap our team sucks, hey let's trade Pau for the worst player on earth!!! awesome show, great job!"

[ElNono]

When you don't know much about basketball, you come up with threads like this one. Good job, OP!

[SmellyFeet]

Hey Rapper,
Tim says you're a biatch.

[Def Rowe]

They were a 5 seed once in a very competitive Western Conference....you can't be Pau Gasol + shit for that to happen. No harm in admitting Pau is soft and a shitty team leader, he is what he is and the Grizz figured it out.

And we also saw that Paul Gasol + shit = "holy crap our team sucks, hey let's trade Pau for the worst player on earth!!! awesome show, great job!"

The Grizz' owner was set on cutting salary and figured out they could get Pau's brother for one tenth the cost.

[TheMACHINE]

oh and how many titles have you won since 04? or in 04? lol gtfo

Once again....living in 04..and once again, i don't blame you.

[YellowFever]

Any of you that find yourself agreeing with Rapper on this subject might as well quit watching basketball altogether.

You're making your team look bad for having idiotic fans.

[Kori Ellis]

Don't be ridiculous.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You've gotta keep a consistent argument people. Shaq made Kobe a better player in 2000-2002 because Shaq was the better player who's dominant offense rubbed off on Kobe, but now it's time Kobe gets credit for making Gasol a better player and making his dominant offense rub off on Gasol. Gasol's overall stats might be better but it's not that simple. As much as I dislike Kobe, he's the best player on LA and is responsible for Gasol's play this year.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

they were good enough to win 50 games......

point is to compare his value to kobe on a basketball team is stupid. Pau plays much more comfortably as the teams 2nd option.

Well said.

[Allanon]

Here's an interesting fact that I read on another board that I just realized was true.

It kind of relates to Pau's value on the team.

You will see Kobe on the court without Pau or Odom.
You will see Odom on the court without Kobe or Pau.

But you will never see Pau on the court without either Kobe or Odom (unless the game is pretty much won).

And in case some of you forgot, the Lakers were seeded #1 in January last year before the Pau Gasol trade.

[Chieflion]

Here's an interesting fact that I read on another board that I just realized was true.

It kind of relates to Pau's value on the team.

You will see Kobe on the court without Pau or Odom.
You will see Odom on the court without Kobe or Pau.

But you will never see Pau on the court without either Kobe or Odom (unless the game is pretty much won).

And in case some of you forgot, the Lakers were #1 last year before the Pau Gasol trade.

What about Andrew Bynum?

[Allanon]

What about Andrew Bynum?

Bynum's in the same boat as Pau, you'll never see him without Kobe or Odom.

[m33p0]

:lol

[mystargtr34]

Pau is under rated.

Hes as important to them as Tony and Manu are to the Spurs.

Kobe, like Duncan is still the main dog, but Pau is more like a 1a.

[mystargtr34]

They were a 5 seed once in a very competitive Western Conference....you can't be Pau Gasol + shit for that to happen. No harm in admitting Pau is soft and a shitty team leader, he is what he is and the Grizz figured it out.

And we also saw that Paul Gasol + shit = "holy crap our team sucks, hey let's trade Pau for the worst player on earth!!! awesome show, great job!"

Gasol lead a team to 50 wins whos second best player was Lorenzen Wright.

Kobe couldnt make the playoffs with Odom as his second option.

Pau Gasol may be soft, but hes still a damn good player. Probly a top 15 player.

[Rogue]

It's true

you can see that actually Pau is more important than kobe to the Lakers

Kobe just focuses on scoring and he shot too much

Look at Gasol, jumper,Rebs, assist, hook shot, Dunk, offense, defense,he is a total package so that he is the real MVP in the Lakers.

Playing without Gasol, Lakers is nothing
Right, I have to agree with this dude or girl on this comment although his other comments always make little sense. Firstly I shall thank him (or her) for exalting Pau Gasol. Pau Gasol is playing in LA which is home to those disgusting hollywood movies, but Pau himself is still venerable anyway. The only reason I respect him is that he is a spanish guy.

Lakers had never looked that good since their "big four" divorced in 04, until they stole Pau Gasol from memphis last season. Pop was absolutely pissed off when he was told about this trade, or steal. no, it was simply a robbery. Pau's shootings and moves are as good as other white PFs and centers, but he is a lot tougher than those white guys like Dirk. Kobe had been being doubled up everytime he handled the ball, now their opponents double Pau a lot more than Kobe. Pau has taken Kobe's crown and become the king of lakers team, but Kobe can't stand playing as the seacond role on his team (that's precisely why shaq was forced to leave, LA's fans prefered Kobe so that the leaving guy had to be shaq.) Lakers made a terrible decision in trading shaq and retaining that virago who has already proven that he can't do that without shaq. Kobe is even more sh!tty than most of the hollywood movies, at least hollywood has made some good movies like "monster's ball" and "swordfish". Kobe's 81pts just reflected how selfish he was, and he still is now. Kobe earns 21m/yr but his performances are not a bit better than a geek who works for the hollywood.

LA lakers are a great team and their rosters are all great too, except Kobe.http://i40.tinypic.com/2prcl7t.jpg

[Allanon]

Gasol lead a team to 50 wins whos second best player was Lorenzen Wright.

Kobe couldnt make the playoffs with Odom as his second option.

Pau Gasol may be soft, but hes still a damn good player. Probly a top 15 player.

You probably already know this but, Kobe's been in the Playoffs every year with Odom except that 1st year...Odom tore his shoulder and had surgery that year.

Lakers ended up missing the Playoffs that year.

What's impressive is that Kobe took a scrub team with a Starting lineup of Kwame, Luke and Smush to the Playoffs and I think it was Game 6 against a very good Suns team. I can't even remember most of the bench, they were pretty bad like Devin Green, Brian Cook, etc.

Pau got swept 4-0 and he had Mike Miller, James Posey, Shane Battier, Jason Williams, Earl Watson. I'd say all of those guys are better than Luke, Kwame, Smush, Devin Green, Brian Cook, Laron Profit, etc.

[Def Rowe]

^^^ Word.

[ginobili's bald spot]

You probably already know this but, Kobe's been in the Playoffs every year with Odom except that 1st year...Odom tore his shoulder and had surgery that year.

Please, let's not let the facts get in the way.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

And in case some of you forgot, the Lakers were seeded #1 in January last year before the Pau Gasol trade.

That I know isn't true. The Suns were winning the division at the time.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Just because they turned into a contender after the Pau Gasol trade doesn't mean Pau is their best player, the argument saying otherwise makes no sense. The statement that Pau is more important than Kobe is laughable.

[sonic21]

They turned into contender after the Gasol trade because Gasol >>> Bynum, Kobe is still the best player in the league.

[JamStone]

Gasol lead a team to 50 wins whos second best player was Lorenzen Wright.


Why do some of you like to post completely blatantly inaccurate information to support a weak argument? Lorenzen Wright wasn't even a top five player on that 50 win Grizzlies team. Shit, he probably wasn't even a top 7 player on that team.

Gasol, Mike Miller, James Posey, Bonzi Wells, Jason Williams, Shane Battier, Earl Watson were all better and more valuable players to that team than Lorenzen Wright.

[mystargtr34]

Why do some of you like to post completely blatantly inaccurate information to support a weak argument? Lorenzen Wright wasn't even a top five player on that 50 win Grizzlies team. Shit, he probably wasn't even a top 7 player on that team.

Gasol, Mike Miller, James Posey, Bonzi Wells, Jason Williams, Shane Battier, Earl Watson were all better and more valuable players to that team than Lorenzen Wright.

You sound like TPark.

Whats my weak argument? That Pau Gasol is a top 15 player?

[JamStone]

The argument of this thread that Gasol is more valuable than Kobe.

Do you really believe Lorenzen Wright the second best player of that 50 win Memphis Grizzlies team?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Whats my weak argument? That Pau Gasol is a top 15 player?

1. LeBron
2. Wade
3. Howard
4. Dirk
5. Kobe
6. Roy
7. Duncan
8. Bosh
9. KG
10. Pierce
12. Joe Johnson
13. CP3
14. Deron Williams
15. Billups

(no particular order)

No he isn't.

[ElNono]

1. LeBron
2. Wade
3. Howard
4. Dirk
5. Kobe
6. Roy
7. Duncan
8. Bosh
9. KG
10. Pierce
12. Joe Johnson
13. CP3
14. Deron Williams
15. Billups

(no particular order)

No he isn't.

When you put Dirk and Roy before Duncan you really are setting yourself up for disaster...

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

When you put Dirk and Roy before Duncan you really are setting yourself up for disaster...

I said no particular order for a reason, if there was a particular order Duncan would be at the top of the list. Please read the post if you're gonna critique it.

[DrHouse]

This is without question one of the dumber things I've read on here.

Kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gasol.

/thread

[ImmortalD24]

Lol.

[Rapper]

Right, I have to agree with this dude or girl on this comment although his other comments always make little sense. Firstly I shall thank him (or her) for exalting Pau Gasol. Pau Gasol is playing in LA which is home to those disgusting hollywood movies, but Pau himself is still venerable anyway. The only reason I respect him is that he is a spanish guy.

Lakers had never looked that good since their "big four" divorced in 04, until they stole Pau Gasol from memphis last season. Pop was absolutely pissed off when he was told about this trade, or steal. no, it was simply a robbery. Pau's shootings and moves are as good as other white PFs and centers, but he is a lot tougher than those white guys like Dirk. Kobe had been being doubled up everytime he handled the ball, now their opponents double Pau a lot more than Kobe. Pau has taken Kobe's crown and become the king of lakers team, but Kobe can't stand playing as the seacond role on his team (that's precisely why shaq was forced to leave, LA's fans prefered Kobe so that the leaving guy had to be shaq.) Lakers made a terrible decision in trading shaq and retaining that virago who has already proven that he can't do that without shaq. Kobe is even more sh!tty than most of the hollywood movies, at least hollywood has made some good movies like "monster's ball" and "swordfish". Kobe's 81pts just reflected how selfish he was, and he still is now. Kobe earns 21m/yr but his performances are not a bit better than a geek who works for the hollywood.

LA lakers are a great team and their rosters are all great too, except Kobe.http://i40.tinypic.com/2prcl7t.jpg

It's an honor for me to have your approval.

[tlongII]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/b3/fullj.70712997bf74e744c0927f5885c9cc73/70712997bf74e744c0927f5885c9cc73-getty-83006021nb015_blzrs_lakers.jpg

[lefty]

Gasol has been the best Laker so far this season.

I believe he's also the best passer amongst big men this season (of course, it has a lot to do with the triangle)

[turiaf for president]

The argument of this thread that Gasol is more valuable than Kobe.

Do you really believe Lorenzen Wright the second best player of that 50 win Memphis Grizzlies team?

thank you. well said

[turiaf for president]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/b3/fullj.70712997bf74e744c0927f5885c9cc73/70712997bf74e744c0927f5885c9cc73-getty-83006021nb015_blzrs_lakers.jpg

100-86

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Gasol has been the best Laker so far this season.

How do you figure exactly? If people are gonna make assonine statements like this then back them up.

[turiaf for president]

^ at least SD explains his ridiculous comments. which dont make sense but he tries

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

It's true

you can see that actually Pau is more important than kobe to the Lakers

Kobe just focuses on scoring and he shot too much

Look at Gasol, jumper,Rebs, assist, hook shot, Dunk, offense, defense,he is a total package so that he is the real MVP in the Lakers.

Ya, it's weird how everyone here has won as many playoff games w/o Kobe as Gasol has. I'd love to see the 2005-2006 or 2006-2007 Lakers make the playoffs with Gasol as oppose to Kobe. No disrespect to Gasol or anything. I'll bet even Gasol would laugh if he heard he was more important to the Laker's success than Kobe.

[Baseline]

Without Gasol, the Lakers would not be a top 4 seed in the West. They would be a 5-8 seed.

Simply put, Gasol changed that whole team. His offensive efficiency has made Bryant look better. Why do we always hear that the Lakers are better if Bryant takes less than 20 shots? Hello - so he doesn't jump-shoot them out of games.

Laker fans just don't want to admit that Bryant is overrated.

He never figured out how to play with a huge talent like Lamar, actually missing the playoffs in 2005. Wow, that's impressive.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

^ at least SD explains his ridiculous comments. which dont make sense but he tries

This is just my guess but I think SD is a really good actor and gets a weird sense of satisfaction out of seeing people he's never met respond to his posts. Then again, it's not very hard to sound serious through a computer.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Without Gasol, the Lakers would not be a top 4 seed in the West. They would be a 5-8 seed.

And without Kobe they wouldn't even be a playoff team



Why do we always hear that the Lakers are better if Bryant takes less than 20 shots?

That is such a useless statistic. The Lakers are better when Kobe takes less shots because it means they are winning and don't need Kobe to start forcing the issue in order to spark a run. If Kobe taking less shots had a direct relationship with the Lakers winning, why exactly does Phil Jackson give him the green light so much.

He is averaging 20.2 shots a game and the Lakers have the best record in basketball, is that just a coincidence?



Laker fans just don't want to admit that Bryant is overrated.

Kobe being overrated doesn't mean Gasol is more important to the Lakers. The two are unrelated.



He never figured out how to play with a huge talent like Lamar, actually missing the playoffs in 2005.

He had Chucky Atkins at PG and Chris Mihm at C. He also had a midseason coaching change to deal with in addition to the fact the HOF coach he played
for his entire career retired.

Does the 2005 support the argument Kobe might be overrated? Yes. Does the 2005 season support the (stupid) argument Gasol is the Laker's MVP and most important player? Hell no.

[SmellyFeet]

This argument would have made sense about 2 weeks ago. But have you seen kobe's last 10 or so games? he has picked his shit up, playing at lebron/wade level. Don't have his stats, but he is shooting something like 50%+ fomr the field for an average of 26-27.

[Lakers_55]

For what it's worth....Laker TV Announcers have stated repeatedly that Gasol is the most consistent Laker this season. That doesn't mean better, more valuable, or anything else other than what it says.

[hater]

is Gasol clearly 2nd best player in Lakers? yes
is Gasol a top 15 NBA big man? yes
is Kobe overrated? yes
but even then, is this thread retarded? yes

let's not forget, the Lakers are stacked, most of their players have unbeleivable talent, don't forget any given night as long as 2 or 3 of the rest of their role players are hot, they could beat any team. that fact, plus Kobe + Gasol, makes them contenders

[Lakers_55]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/b3/fullj.70712997bf74e744c0927f5885c9cc73/70712997bf74e744c0927f5885c9cc73-getty-83006021nb015_blzrs_lakers.jpg

Do you have the picture of Gasol dunking on Oden?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

This argument would have made sense about 2 weeks ago. But have you seen kobe's last 10 or so games? he has picked his shit up, playing at lebron/wade level. Don't have his stats, but he is shooting something like 50%+ fomr the field for an average of 26-27.

He's basically shooting 48% from the field and averaging 27 PPG (season averages). Incredible numbers, especially from a perimeter player who is no longer has the athleticism to get into the paint as easily as he used to.

Kobe is currently 5th on Hollinger's player efficiency rating, Gasol is 17th.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

For what it's worth....Laker TV Announcers have stated repeatedly that Gasol is the most consistent Laker this season. That doesn't mean better, more valuable, or anything else other than what it says.

True, and it's a lot easier to be consistent as the 2nd option rather than the 1st option, especially if the 2nd option is a PF and the 1st option is a SG.

Last season, in 39 games with Memphis, Gasol averaged 14 shots a game and shot 50.1% from the field. In 27 games with LA, he averaged 13.1 shots a game (little to no difference) but shot 58.9% from the field. This year, he's averaging a career high 56.2% from the field and only taking 1.7 less shots than his career average, so his increase in FG% clearly is not due to taking significantly less shots.

Last season, Kobe shot 45.7% from the field pre all star break and 46.2% from the field post all star break, so his FG% remained basically the same (0.5% is negligible) after the Gasol trade.


Can someone who says Gasol makes Kobe better and Kobe does nothing to help Gasol please explain how you can back that up?

[Hemotivo]

D. Fisher has been the best Laker so far this season.

[DrHouse]

You're all idiots. Seriously.

DuncanOwnsKobe is the only non-Laker fan with any sense in this thread.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

D. Fisher has been the best Laker so far this season.

That actually brings up a good point. If people who want to make the claim Kobe is overrated and support it by saying he needs __________ to open up the floor for him, their argument should not be that he needs a big man in order to shoot well, it's that he needs Derek Fisher or a veteran point that doesn't need to ball to operate and can set the triangle up.

His 5 worst shooting seasons (97, 98, 04, 05, 06) were all when he had a guard other than Derek Fisher or Ron Harper getting the big minutes at PG. The two seasons where LA had both Harper and Fisher were two of his best shooting seasons. When they had Fisher and Derek Harper, another ideal Phil Jackson PG, Kobe had his best shooting season going into this year.


So basically, if one wants to make a rash statement about Kobe needing assistance in one way or another in order to shoot well, it's clear his play is more dependent off who is at PG rather than who is at PF/C.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

But needing an intelligent PG who will do what Phil Jackson says in order to succeed is not something to fault Kobe for, even MJ needed smart play from the PG position to win a title, it's not like he ever won anything with Smush Parker or Chucky Atkins playing point.

[DrHouse]

Kobe has already proved in the '05 and '06 seasons that he could score at will all by his lonesome. He's 30 years old right now, his body can't do the things he used to be able to do.

You don't average 35 ppg and score 81 pts in a game if your some fucking scrub. Kobe is not overrated. He has consistently been the best perimeter player in the league for about the last decade. Give him some fucking props for christ sakes.

[Hemotivo]

But needing an intelligent PG who will do what Phil Jackson says in order to succeed is not something to fault Kobe for, even MJ needed smart play from the PG position to win a title, it's not like he ever won anything with Smush Parker or Chucky Atkins playing point.

right now the lakers have too many weapons
and a veteran leader in Fisher



maybe their problem is man to man defense against athletic forwards who can attack and finish (with intensity like the jazz guys the other night)

[JoeTait75]

Lot of people on this board seem to think the superstar has to go 82-0, hit every big shot, and basically be perfect every single night, or he isn't a superstar.

[Hemotivo]

nope

[LakeShow]

You mean to tell me this is not a joke? :wow :td

Ridiculous!

[Kobe™]

Thread starter is fucking stupid.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

so kobe is the 2nd if not the best player in the world but gasol is more valuable?

[angelbelow]

i dont like kobe but he the best player in the league. gasol isnt even the powerforward.

[mystargtr34]

The argument of this thread that Gasol is more valuable than Kobe.

Do you really believe Lorenzen Wright the second best player of that 50 win Memphis Grizzlies team?

Iv already stated that Kobe > Gasol.

And no, of course Lorenzen Wright wasnt the second best player on that team.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MEM/2004.html

Only one player playing more than 20 MPG shot over 45%.

Battier was a second year guy playing 25 minutes stuck behind Posey who was the clear number 2 guy. Bonzi was horrible, missing 20+ games and putting up 12.3 points on .437%.

How about i rephrase it. He lead a team to 50 wins in a tough Western Conference with James Posey as his second best player. Or was it Jason Williams?

Anyway you put it, he had a second option who should be no more than a 4/5th option on a playoff team.

Just sayin, hes better than people think he is.

[mystargtr34]

1. LeBron
2. Wade
3. Howard
4. Dirk
5. Kobe
6. Roy
7. Duncan
8. Bosh
9. KG
10. Pierce
12. Joe Johnson
13. CP3
14. Deron Williams
15. Billups

(no particular order)

No he isn't.

Gasol > Billups.

Gasol had even more of an impact on the Lakers when he arrived than Billups did on the Nuggets.

[JamStone]

And no, of course Lorenzen Wright wasnt the second best player on that team.


That's what I was arguing about your initial post.

[Allanon]

It's possible some of you were taken in by Kobe's mediocre play to start the season. In November/early December, he probably looked like the 20th best player in the NBA. I think it was him trying to get all the guys into the fold and giving them the opportunities to boost their confidence.

But as of around mid-December, he's back.

Right now, Kobe is playing THE BEST basketball of his career...just watch a game and you'll see.

He's "gotten it" in regards to balancing his personal #'s AND his teammates.

[mystargtr34]

That's what I was arguing about your initial post.

Right. He was still a key cog in a 50 win team.

1. Gasol
--------
2. Posey
3. Williams

Im struggling to find 50 win team with such shitty 2 and 3 options. Alot of their success had to do with their team defense, but Gasol still lead an awful team to 50 wins.

[JamStone]

Right. He was still a key cog in a 50 win team.

1. Gasol
--------
2. Posey
3. Williams

Im struggling to find 50 win team with such shitty 2 and 3 options. Alot of their success had to do with their team defense, but Gasol still lead an awful team to 50 wins.

You're missing the point I criticized your initial post. You specifically stated:


Gasol lead a team to 50 wins whos second best player was Lorenzen Wright.

That is so far beyond the truth to try to strengthen what you were saying that it was ridiculous enough to take any merit away from your point to begin with.

[mystargtr34]

You're missing the point I criticized your initial post. You specifically stated:



That is so far beyond the truth to try to strengthen what you were saying that it was ridiculous enough to take any merit away from your point to begin with.

Now i am altering my point because i admit i was exaggerating in my initial point.

What i should have said was 'he lead a team to 50 wins with Lorenzen Wright as one of his main guys - which he was.

Your right, you stated that Lorenzen Wright was not the second best player on the team when i stated that he was. Score one for JamStone, ask Kori to give you a Spur.

[mystargtr34]

You're missing the point I criticized your initial post. You specifically stated:



That is so far beyond the truth to try to strengthen what you were saying that it was ridiculous enough to take any merit away from your point to begin with.

My point in opening up this thread and giving my opinion was to point out that Pau Gasol was a better player than people think he is. Its not about how good or great Lorenzen Wright is.

If you want to concentrate on that one point that i made which you know was an exaggeration as much as i do, thats fine - ill continue on with the thread.

[turiaf for president]

the only reason that team didnt have a significant no 2 averaging ton of points was that team was deep. they had 10 guys average 19.6 minutes or more. they all played at least 65 games except wells who played 59. gasol only averaged 31.5 minutes per game.

Gasol is indeed a better player than people think he is, but to say he is more valuable than kobe is like saying bibby is more important than joe johnson on the hawks since bibby led the kings to the playoffs that year webber was traded away

[JamStone]

Saying the 7th or 8th best player on a team was the 2nd best player on that team is not an exaggeration. It's so stupid that even if the rest of your opinion is actually accurate and insightful, you still sound stupid for saying the 7th or 8th player on a team was the 2nd best player and it takes away any credibility of any accurate or insightful points to your opinion.

That was my point.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Kobe has already proved in the '05 and '06 seasons that he could score at will all by his lonesome. He's 30 years old right now, his body can't do the things he used to be able to do.

You don't average 35 ppg and score 81 pts in a game if your some fucking scrub. Kobe is not overrated. He has consistently been the best perimeter player in the league for about the last decade. Give him some fucking props for christ sakes.

I'm not saying he sucks when Fisher isn't on his team no need to be defensive with someone who's actually agreeing with you. My point is that in order for Kobe to play with greater efficiency he needs a veteran PG who knows the triangle well and can set the offense up and deliver it to Kobe in the right places.

That's by no means a diss towards Kobe or anything, it's a mere rebuttal to the "Kobe needs Gasol" claim showing that his numbers going up the season Gasol arrived was a mere coincidence that Fisher arrived the same season. Fisher is also underrated and deserves more credit.

[mystargtr34]

the only reason that team didnt have a significant no 2 averaging ton of points was that team was deep. they had 10 guys average 19.6 minutes or more. they all played at least 65 games except wells who played 59. gasol only averaged 31.5 minutes per game.

Gasol is indeed a better player than people think he is, but to say he is more valuable than kobe is like saying bibby is more important than joe johnson on the hawks since bibby led the kings to the playoffs that year webber was traded away

The team was deep - but it was deep with scrubs playing meaningful minutes.

Of course Kobe is better, more important, more valuable, sexier whatever.

[Rapper]

It's so surprise for me to see that this thread causes a lot of replies.

However, I stll maintain my original thought

On the other hand I also appreciate those who take my part.just as kobe said,

"Somebody hates me, hates my games, hates my fadeaway ", and hates the truth they disagree with.

end of the story

[SmellyFeet]

Stupid chink.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Look at Gasol, jumper,Rebs, assist, hook shot, Dunk, offense, defense,he is a total package so that he is the real MVP in the Lakers.


This makes absolutely no sense. It's about as retarded as when SD says, "They just made some shots and grabbed some rebounds."

[z0sa]

Kobe without Pau does not make a contender. Pau without Kobe doesn't make a contender.

Pau + Kobe = contender. Kobe is more valuable, but its honestly pointless because without Pau, Kobe would continue to be expected to do essentially nothing in the postseason, and the same goes for Pau without Kobe.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Kobe without Pau does not make a contender. Pau without Kobe doesn't make a contender.

Pau + Kobe = contender. Kobe is more valuable, but its honestly pointless because without Pau, Kobe would continue to be expected to do essentially nothing in the postseason, and the same goes for Pau without Kobe.

Forgive Kobe for needing a reliable 2nd option, god there are ways to criticize Kobe but this whole thread takes it over the line.

MJ never advanced past the 1st round without Pippen and never carried a team to 50 wins without Pippen, but Pippen carried a team to 55 wins without Jordan and with Horace Grant as the 2nd best player. I guess using the logic of this thread Pippen was more important to the Bull's dynasty than Jordan.

[mystargtr34]

The team Jordan had without Pippen was alot different to the team Pippen had without Jordan.

[mystargtr34]

But i see your point.

[mavsluva]

oh and how many titles have you won since 04? or in 04? lol gtfo

Probably not too many. He doesn't play NBA basketball. Nor do you.