here is what NY fans are saying...

[duncan2k5]

about rose in another forum:

"Lots of people were doubting Rose before but 8 rebounds and 2pts in the 2nd quarter alone seems to show some promise especially since he didn't play in the 1st "

"Yeah, Rose was killing. I didn't realize how good he was. His numbers are very decieving, but then again, he's playing behind Tim Duncan and finds a way to put up decent numbers. Mike Breen said last season, when Rose started due to injuries or things like that, in I think 15 games, he averaged 15 points 8 rebounds, and the season before, 16 points and 9 rebounds. Very good game by him. He hustles and creates many scoring opportunities and he is a great defender! I guess that's what happeneds when you practice against Tim Duncan on a regular basis. Anyway, I like Rose and his defense and overall game, might surprise everyone in this trade might not look so bad afterall for some people."

"Rose looked great out there. Good overall effort by everyone. I don't want to make the playoffs either and especially if we fall short at a run and end up with the 14th pick
Anyway good game and I'm interested to see what Rose does for us in the near future."

"Rose looked very winded but if first impressions mean anything he looks like a nice add to team chemistry"

"if Malik Rose is going to get us 8 rebounds in 9 minutes it is a safe bet he is going to get a lot more minutes. That one basket he scored in the paint, was all will. It gave me chills.

Guys like KT, JYD and Malik are not passive, phone it in types. They show up to play and have some fight in them."

"Rose is having a nice debut I think he is a way better than Sweetney. This is the line-up I would like for the next games:
Marbury
Crawford
Rose
T.Thomas
K.Thomas"

"rose is the workhorse this team needed.... 8 rebounds in not even 9 minutes? that's incredible"

"sweetney better step up his game cause Rose is playing great"

"playoff push!!!!!!!!! Great team play and an overall effort. Go Malik!"

"You guys havent even seen the best of Malik yet. He can dunk, hit the 10-20 foot jumpshot and he will draw charges. "

"Rose's hustle really motivated us. He played great D on Jermaine. "

"With Sweets out quickly due to foul trouble I wish he would have played Malike more minutes. Malik should play around 20 minutes a night as a 6th man. He will always give you 100% all over the floor. NY Fans will appreciate Malik."

"I have to give Isiah Thomas a lot of credit for acquring Malik Rose, I knew he was going to be good, but that guy is a workhorse who knows his way around the paint better than other guys on the team. His rebounding is tremendous, and should expect more of that same play for years to come. In limited minutes, I have to say. 3 Thumbs up!!!"

"Malik Rose is going to be the worst influence possible on Sweetney. He will open a restaurant right next to the garden and Sweetney will be in there night and day asking for free food. He will gorge after ever game there and Rose won't have the heart to tell him to stop. I won't be surprised if I see Sweetney on the bench with a Philly Cheesteak in his mouth." LMAO!!!!!!! :lol

"regardless of his contract, I can see myself liking this guy. He just seems like one of those guys you gotta love."

"When was the last time you saw a Knick that cared about his team that much? Maybe thats why the Spurs win every year and we dont? I hate the Spurs but I have to admit they run a team the right way. I'm amazed at how they keep their team full of good team first guys in todays me first $$$ era."

"8 rebounds in 9 minutes...not too shabby.

I thought I wouldn't like him, but I watched that video where he cried , and saw his hustle tonight, I kind of have to like him."

[whottt]

Yeah....they love him already...although a few of them have the wrong idea about him and are in for a rude awakening.

Some of them think he is going to bring smart play and ball movement on offense to their team...hoo boy.

But yeap....New Yorkers are going to love Malik because he is undersized, but he does let that hold him back and is as tough if not tougher than any player in the NBA and he ALWAYS gives it every thing he can on the court. And if heart was size he'd be bigger than Yao....and that's not just lip service...when you say that about Malik it's the truth.

They're gonna love him in NY as much as SA loved him...probably more, they'll probably be a lot more forgiving of his mistakes because they haven't been spoiled rotten by David Robinson and Tim Duncan.

Malik may be a Texan now...but that game and attitude that he's played with his whole career that we all love, is an East Coast game and attitude...he's one of their own and he's gonna get the keys to that city.

[duncan2k5]

that cheesesteak comment was funny tho. it had me rollin

[alamo50]

Thanks for the post St.Croix!

"That one basket he scored in the paint, was all will. It gave me chills"

:depressed

[thispego]

Yeah....they love him already...although a few of them have the wrong idea about him and are in for a rude awakening.

Some of them think he is going to bring smart play and ball movement on offense to their team...hoo boy.

But yeap....New Yorkers are going to love Malik because he is undersized, but he does let that hold him back and is as tough if not tougher than any player in the NBA and he ALWAYS gives it every thing he can on the court. And if heart was size he'd be bigger than Yao....and that's not just lip service...when you say that about Malik it's the truth.

They're gonna love him in NY as much as SA loved him...probably more, they'll probably be a lot more forgiving of his mistakes because they haven't been spoiled rotten by David Robinson and Tim Duncan.

Malik may be a Texan now...but that game and attitude that he's played with his whole career that we all love, is an East Coast game and attitude...he's one of their own and he's gonna get the keys to that city.


whottt actually made me laugh??? :lmao
:depressed

Those were some great quotes about Malik, thanks for that D2K5
All that after just one game... makes me very optimistic about 'liks future in the league.

[whottt]

LOL Alamo...that basket he scored was his pumpfake under the basket that usually gets put back in his face 3 times in a row...that move is going to work a lot better in the East.

[whottt]

whottt actually made me laugh??? :lmao
:depressed

Those were some great quotes about Malik, thanks for that D2K5
All that after just one game... makes me very optimistic about 'liks future in the league.


Whattt that's only the first time I made you laugh? :(

I think I'm always funny.

[whottt]

Hey St.Croix boy, what forum did you get those quotes from?

I am trying to find some good Knicks forums and I want to find out from some of their savvier fans just what we are going to be getting from Nazr...

I'll be honest...the more I read from them the more it looks like they have let Nazr go without a second thought, and feel they definitely got the better end of this trade just based on Malik alone...and this is followed by disbelief that we actually gave them two draft picks on top of it to take Malik off our hands.

I want to get the scoop from them on what Nazr has to offer us. I am hoping to read some postive things about him from some of their objective posters...They seem to think it's funny that we think of him as a shotblocker.

I have yet to see one Knicks fan or member of the NY media say they don't like what Malik is bringing to their team...the only complaint they have is his contract.

And BTW, I found out something that both pissed me off and got me a little excited...Malik can opt out of his contract after next season. I know Malik would have done that to stay here....I'm hoping he might be willing to do it to come back.

[texbound]

As much as we loved Malik, I have to admit that I think is the best thing for him. He was never going to start in SA, but at least with the Knicks he has a chance to. I say good for him.

[exstatic]

They obviously haven't had a chance to see his dazzling ballhandling or shooting yet.

[whottt]

As much as we loved Malik, I have to admit that I think is the best thing for him. He was never going to start in SA, but at least with the Knicks he has a chance to. I say good for him.

Yeah, I'm not worried about Malik...I'm worried about us.

I'm going to *snap* if I find out we traded Malik for Rasho revisted without the shotblocking.

I like Rasho and Horry and could live with their shortcomings in the hustle department because we had Malik...

I definitely don't like it when I hear Knicks fans saying that Mohammed often lacked intensity...that's going to kill us.

[texbound]

I definitely don't like it when I hear Knicks fans saying that Mohammed often lacked intensity...that's going to kill us.

I here you on that, but I've also heard Knick fans saying that Nazr has been solid for them this year. It's just like with Malik. People said they liked his hustle for the most part, but couldn't stand his decision making during a game. I guess people see what they want to see.

[duncan2k5]

I just typed in "new york knicks forum" on yahoo.com and all the sites i went to were within the first 8 i think. yea they really like him so far and think he is better than sweetney (most of them). they seem to like his pesonality and how it can affect the locker room. they were all commenting on how the new york media was all gushing about him after they bashed Isiah fo rthe trades. i agree whott. they dont seem to take Nazr,s loss as anything big. hopefully Pop can make a player out of him and he doesn'y become Ward: Reloaded

[ShoogarBear]

I was hunting around for some Malik thoughts and saw some of those quotes in the NY Times Knicks forum.

People, like, quote Dante and Yeats in there.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I talked to a pro scout last night after the A&M - Tech game. He was short and succinct in giving his take on the trade:

"Isiah Thomas is a fucking idiot."

:lol

[whottt]

I talked to a pro scout last night after the A&M - Tech game. He was short and succinct in giving his take on the trade:

"Isiah Thomas is a fucking idiot."

:lol

:rolleyes


What would a "smart" scout be doing at an A&M game? I'm skeptical of his opinion.

Was he one of the guys who called Isiah an idiot for drafting Stoudemire over O'Bannon?

[GoldToe]

The NY fans will fall in love with Malik just as SA did.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

He was scouting A&M junior Antoine Wright, who is a consensus first round draft pick if he comes out.

I didn't see him but supposedly Lance Blanks was there also.

[ducks]

you know this forum would be praising rose to
if he put up 8 rebounds in 9 minutes of plays
and others would be blasting pop for not playing him more
but when he sucks fans will dislike him to

[whottt]

BTW, I wrote these guys one of my long ass posts breaking down Malik's strengths and weaknesses and these guys actually thanked me for being so thorough...So STFU Marcus...you guys just don't realize how lucky you are.

What the Knicks Fans have to say:


He's a really good offensive rebounder, not that great hands at all, fumbles the ball way too much, commits some silly fouls. But he gets a lot of putbacks seems to be in the right place alot of the times.



hes a decent, but way overhyped shotblocker....he gets lots of garbage baskets, or did anyway in ny, dont expect him to do that with duncan or even rash playing alongside him....hes not a good defender at all....if you play him at the 4, he most likely wont have the athleticism to guard the other teams pf, and could get eaten up by some of the wests centers....in short, he'll prove to be an ok minute eater, but consider yourself in trouble if you face a situation in which he has to play more than 15/20 minutes a game




Nazr should be a great pickup with guys like Parker, Giniobili, and Udrih around him. He thrives off of put packs and offensive boards. But he isnt a defender, or a shotblocker. But he has offense. The one thing I hate about him is hes too nice. U love him for the effort and the will to win, but he lacks the toughness. He can be a solid backup. He can score, and get rebounds, but dont expect much defense from him.




Not the best hand when he get the ball in the low post. Good offensive rebounder, most of his scoring come form putbacks. Nazr shoots a high FG%. For the most part he plays hard and with intensity.




Everything but defense.




I think he will be your starter. He gets rebounds that you would think impossible but also can both the easiest of passes. His role on the Spurs is simple get rebounds. I think he will be a GREAT fir for you.




i think he pulled his weiner and has trouble jumping...



Good garbageman
Needs to dunk to finish around the rim... no touch on layups or hooks
Mediocre defender
Developing post game and fadeaway J
No ballhandling ability
Great on offensive boards, above avg. on defensive glass
Definitely doesn't play as hard as rose . Works on his game, but in actual games he's not the most passionate guy. Not a slacker though.
Shotblocking... not so much. He averaged 1 block a game, but that's as the only center on a team with defensively poor guards. That aspect of his game is one of the reasons we did fall so hard.

You're getting a good rebounder, a developing offensive player, a mediocre to weak defender, and a very solid offensive rebound/garbage bucket type guy.

He also tends to vanish in big games vs. top competition, but do well against the centers he should beat. If you play the Raptors, he's a 20/15 guy.




Contrary to reports, he is not a shotblocker by any imagination. He is a solid rebounder, but gets bullied around by stronger forwards. For the most part, he has terrible footwork in the post, but he can hit the baby hook and turnaround jumper. He has stone hands and picks up stupid fouls. Most of his offensive game is putbacks and dunks, but I think he will thrive playing next to players that command the defenses' attention and should get a lot of open looks. Great attitude, great work ethic.





I think Nazr is good pick up for you guys. He can get points in the paint and get offensive rebounds. I actually think you guys should start Nazr with Duncan. Most sport writers and fans predict that he will help you guys win a title.





Now that I think about it, Nazr is weird, he gets beat in the post by most defenders, but yet he does a very good job of guarding Shaq. Go figure. If you guys face the Heat in the Finals, he is actually a pretty good defender on Shaq(as long as he stays out of foul trouble), the last time we played them he did as good of a job on Shaq as I have ever seen a Knick do as of late.




I think Pop will fix Nazi good and turn him into a better basketball player






Naz, is kinda inconsistant. He's a nice player. Solid. But he does get too many fouls (which, off the bench won't matter as much), sometimes he blocks a shot, but mostly he's a rebounder (especially on offence, he's one of the best offensive bounders in the game). He can score. He's better on offense than Defense. He's a very solid, let's say, maybe, average center in the east, below average center in the west, but since you're not counting on him for 35 minutes a night, you'll be happy.

Naz's numbers are kinda scary (throughout his career too).

He had 2 very solid years with atlanta, and one or two poor ones.
He was good last year with NY 9.1 pts. 7.7 rebs, 25 min, on .56% shooting, but that was the first time in his career he shot over 50%.
This year, he started out 12/10, but in Jan he was 9/6 and in Feb he was 7/5 (partly due to inuuries).

I don't remember exactly, but he might have had a poor playoff vs. Jersey. Naz can help you sometimes, and no doubt, he's a very respectible back up center, perhaps, maybe, the best back up center in the league, but he's a touch inconsistant.






I don't think you can say that. He played him twice with us, one game Shaq scored 30+ (of course he didn't guard him ALL the time, although I'm not sure it was a while ago), and the second one he had a very surprisingly good game against Shaq when Shaq scored 16 points (though I think he looked to pass more than usual with the Heat dropping 3s like no one's business, but his percentage wasn't very good regardless). Anyway, here's the scoop, his best attribute is his offensive rebounding, he rebounds better on offense, he's not bad with his defensive rebounding but just not as good. A lot of his offense comes from putbacks and Marbury penetrating and dishing it off to him. However this year especially, he's developed some moves and his jumper is decent, shoots a high percentage (was like 2nd or 3rd in the league at one point). Blocks some shots, but really as I said in the other thread he's not that great at it, all these media people that say that he's a "shotblocker" are on crack. Defense is poor too. However, playing next to Tim, should mask that. So, he's a good fit for you guys.






Yes I agree, Pop will shape his butt into a good defensive player, and it's hard to play against a team with 2 7'ers in the paint, and the real DPOY of this season, Bruce Bowen at the 3. Defensively he'll probably chip in a block..maybe more being paired up with Duncan. His hands are pretty good actually, they aren't made of stone. His defensive rotating needs major work from Pop along with the weakside help. When a player beats one of your guys off the dribble he'll continue to box out his man rather than rotate over.

As everyone else here said he crashes the glass offensively and gets most of his points off putbacks. Dunks alot. The last knock about Nazr is he's pretty inconsistent, imo.





Naz is athletic enough, he just doesn't like to get off his feet on D. With proper coaching (which Lenny wasn't, and which he probably didn't get in Atlanta), he might learn to be a respectible defender.






Actually, in the first game, Nazr was holding his own against Shaq, but like often happens with Nazr, he picked up 2 quick fouls, so after that Shaq abused the rest of our team. However in that 2nd game he stayed out of foul trouble so his defense against Shaq was more noticeable. Also, I remember a few years ago with the Sixers, he really impressed everyone with his defense on Shaq in that 2001 season when Ratliff had gone down with that shoulder injury, which is why Atlanta asked for him in the deal for Mutombo. Also, I remember that last year when we first acquired him, that some Hawks fan or someone had posted some article where Shaq was giving Nazr his props for his defense after the lowly Hawks surprised the Lakers in a game during their championship years.

[E20]

Whottt just got CONSOLODIZED(sp)

[ducks]

You're getting a good rebounder, a developing offensive player, a mediocre to weak defender, and a very solid offensive rebound/garbage bucket type guy.

sounds like a guy that duncan should be able to make teams think he is a great defender

[whottt]

I love what they are saying about him on offense...


To a man they claim he is a great offensive rebounder and garbage man. This is awesome. Every guy that responded said he is a great offensive rebounder. Some of them think he is the best offensive rebounder in the NBA.

They said he won't be a good garbage man alongside Duncan, and Rasho :WTF..but that's no problem if he's not playing with Duncan.

To a nearly man they also claim he is a bad defensive player and shotblocker. None of them think he is any kind of a shotblocker.

But you know...I kinda think he's a bad defender in the same way Rasho was...and Pop has turned Rasho into a good defender.



Some of this stuff sounds pretty good...I think his D will be fine in the Spurs system but I don't get the feeling he's going to be an energy guy.

[timvp]

A lot of people are saying he's not a good defensive player. That's pretty scary. However, it sounds like his offensive rebounding skills are good. That should be a plus. I'm eager to see how Naz fights on the Spurs.

Awesome digging, Whottt.

[slayermin]

People, like, quote Dante and Yeats in there.

Do you mean Keats?

Malik can play given the minutes but the Knicks need him much more than the Spurs do.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

He also tends to vanish in big games vs. top competition, but do well against the centers he should beat. If you play the Raptors, he's a 20/15 guy.

They must have missed the Indiana game earlier this year :lol

[ducks]

make him play d against duncan all training camp next season he will improve
if his help d is bad
rember pop thinks rasho's help d is great

[timvp]

They must have missed the Indiana game earlier this year :lol

Yeah the .500 Pacers who beat them that game with Jermaine O'Neal starting at center and going for 33, 13 and 5.

:lol

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

My point, LJ, was that they said he disappeared in big games.

He had 20, 15, and 4 in that one.

[T Park]

Yeah TIMVP

That game he mentions Stephen jackson and Ron Artest played.

I WAS THERE!

He played RIGHT WITH O'Neal, alot of his points came on Thomas and Sweetney guarding him.


Mohammed wasn't used on defense very well that night, as all he guarded was Croshure, and Harrison.


Loose the hate.

[T Park]

His 20 was, put backs, pick and roll dunks, hook shots, and the very rare jump shot.


tough rebounder, and NOT soft.

If a guy is a good rebounder, and a good shot blocker (4 blocks means yes, im sorry, your good)

This guy is not soft, hes not a horrible defender, dont believe everything you read on a goddamn message board.


Theres guys on the clippers that clean the locker rooms more intelligent than the morons on basketball messageboards.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't get the "lose the hate" term being said over and over in reference to Nazr. The only person on the board that has said he sucks is JimCS.

If someone else says that Nazr is a good offensive rebounder who is not a good defender. That's not hate. That's what he's been so far in his career. Every team he's played for and every scouting report on him will tell you that.

Maybe he'll become a better defender as a Spur. We all hope so. But he is what he is so far.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't know exactly how good a defender everyone thinks Malik was in the first place. I'll be interested to see what opponents' FG% is with and without him on the floor in New York. It's a metter of record here.

[T Park]

he was all first team according to the posts in this forum.

[Kori Ellis]

Did anyone compare his D to Malik's?

[ChumpDumper]

Did anyone compare his D to Malik's?It's completely implied.

[Kori Ellis]

Not by everyone. It's just that the Nazr fans get upset when someone says he's not a good defender. And those fans have probably seen him play a total of two or three times, ever. And on the other end of the spectrum, JimCS will say Nazr sucks no matter what. It's somewhere in between. Like I've said 100 times this week, I don't think this trade will have that much impact on the basketball court this season. Malik wasn't doing that much for the Spurs, and Nazr probably won't either. He'll have his share of good and bad games, but I don't think he's a difference maker on the floor over the course of the season.

[ChumpDumper]

If he makes the frontline rotation a consistent one, that will be an impact. Is he good enough to do that? We'll see.

[Kori Ellis]

If he makes the frontline rotation a consistent one, that will be an impact. Is he good enough to do that? We'll see.

Sure if he ends up playing 25+ mpg consistently, he'll be a difference maker. Like you said, we'll see.

[duncan2k5]

nice dig whott. i hope Pop makes Naz have nightmares about him. He needs to fear Pop so he can listen to what he has to say. hopefully he makes the GM look like a genius.

[TwoHandJam]

Based on what I've read so far, I'm optimistic. He's a great offensive rebounder who actually likes to dunk (are you listening Rasho?) and an above average defensive rebounder. He shoots for a very high percentage and has some post skill including hook shots (Rasho, hello?).

He's not a great defender or shotblocker but then neither was Rasho when he got here. Most importantly, people describe him as being very athletic and not only that, coachable and hard working. To me that says he stands a pretty damn good chance at being a good defender under Pop.

[waly.mg]

If Rasho had improved his game since he came from Minnesota, today Malik would follow with the team But as Pop doesn´t like as he is playing it had to make the trade

Malik can be the Rasho and TD Backup, if both are playing several minutes, but Rasho remain in the bench sometimes 20 minutes in a game, so the Team needed a Backup Center

Check Rasho´s numbers

Minnesota: 02-03 30.4 Minutes .525 FG% FT% .642 OR 1.90 DR 4.60 TR 6.50 Points 11.2
Spurs 03-04 28.7 Minutes .469 FG% FT% .474 OR 3.10 DR 4.60 TR 7.70 Points 8.7
Spurs 04-05 25.1 Minutes .448 FG% FT% .440 OR 2.70 DR 4.00 TR 6.70 Points 5.7

If Rasho can play 30 Minutes, with 11 points and 6,5 rebounds like he had in Minnesota, we don´t need the trade

[Useruser666]

Find the similarity between these New York Fans' Quotes:

"The Knicks are just a trade away from a championship!"

"New York has a very talented team, that can win games!"

"Malik Rose was a steal in that trade with SA!"

[Jimcs50]

Find the similarity between these New York Fans' Quotes:

"The Knicks are just a trade away from a championship!"

"New York has a very talented team, that can win games!"

"Malik Rose was a steal in that trade with SA!"

Yes, I agree.

If they had TD, they could win the championship.
Yes they stole Malik and the two draft picks.
They have won some games.

[whottt]

Find the similarity between these New York Fans' Quotes:

"The Knicks are just a trade away from a championship!"

They are, or don't you remember Marbury making our D look like the Mavs a couple of years ago?

They've got two expiring max contracts, they got 4 #1 picks. Houston's team killer comes off the books in two years. They've got some young and talented fowards as well as some veteran ones.

They can put the entire NBA under the cap.

You don't think any team could use an expiring max contract? Much less two of them? Combined with draft picks and young talent?

Take a look at what Philly just gave up to get Webber...The Knicks have the assests to pull of a blockbuster...whether or not they will actually do it is another question.







"New York has a very talented team, that can win games!"


We just traded for one of their players, some of us wanted to trade for two of their players... and people are saying the guy we got is going to help us win a title.

If they have no talent then why did we just give them two #1 picks and the key sixthman from our last title for the 4th or 5th best player on their team?





"Malik Rose was a steal in that trade with SA!"

The steal is in the eye of the beholder, they have a weak defensive team, that doesn't play hard, and none of their bigs want the pressure of trying to carry the inside load...Malik may not be a franchise big but he can wreck a soft defensive front...Why do you think Pop gave him that contract to keep from going to the Lakers?

He's not going to be the long term solution as their inside guy...but he won't back down from the challenge of trying to be that guy and on a lot of nights he will be able to be that guy in the East.

Or didn't you see him bust up the Mavs for a 20 20 game last season when Parker and Duncan were injured?

Rasho has never had a 20 20 game(he's never even come close to it)..and neither has Mohammed.



I'm frankly not impressed with any Spurfan that doesn't think Malik has talent or helped this team win championships.

Malik Rose is no joke.

[Jimcs50]

Inch for inch, I will put Malik up there with anyone as far as being a great rebounder and defender.

[Jimcs50]

Sure if he ends up playing 25+ mpg consistently, he'll be a difference maker. Like you said, we'll see.


If he does this, I will be man enough to admit I was wrong....unlike some in here that have spoken harshly about current and past Spurs over and over.

I hope I am wrong...you would think that Pop knows talent a lot more than I do...but daaamn, I have not seen this guy do anything to impress me to the point where he is worth 2 #1 draft picks and Rose...I mean 2 #1 draft picks are usually given for franchise players or stars, not journeyman.

[Useruser666]

Whottt, Nazr hasn't put up 20-20 for the Spurs but he has put up such numbers for the Knicks, and more often than Rose has for the Spurs. I don't think you can compare them by the stats as much as everyone has. We'll see how he plays as a Spur. That's when I will pass judgment.

Nazr this year has had games of:

20-15
12-17
18-14
22-15
15-17
22-18

He has 16 double doubles this year.

Malik has had 2 double doubles this year. One against the Lakers and the other agaisnt the Hornets. Both of those doubles were this month (showcasing?).

But none of these stats really mean anything until Nazr gets some time on the floor in silver and black.

[whottt]

That's true...but Malik has never been a regular starter...Rasho and Mohammed have both started many more games than Malik has...Malik has been a bench player his entire career and he plays the same position as Duncan...Malik's numbers are pretty impressive for a guy who has played behind Duncan and Robinson his entire career.

I think I read on their forum that in Malik's Spurs career he has averaged 16 and 9 in starts.

Malik can definitely start in the East and against teams like the Nets, Sixers and Celtics he can pretty dominant, and he has the mentality to be dominant. Him thinking he was Duncan was what got him in trouble here. Remember?

If we didn't have Duncan we probably would have liked that quality about him..and I think that's why the Knicks fans are starting to come around to this trade.


I've pretty much figured out that the reason they aren't sad to see Nazr go is that they need a guy who at least wants to dominate inside and none of their bigs have that mentality...that agressiveness. They think Malik can be someone willing to take on that role for them...and you know what?

I think they are right about that. He will take on that role...in fact that's what he really wants...and that's why I am not sad for Malik.

He's finally going to get his chance to prove if he is a starter...

A lot of us...the same guys spoiled by TD and DRob..actually wanted Malik to start after DRob retired...and I still say, if Malik could block shots he would have been the starter.

[Jimcs50]

Whottt, I guess we are on record in saying that Rose+ 2 #1 draft picks > Nazr, so we will all know if we are right or wrong soon enough.

I hope Nazr plays great and become 6th man of the year next year....then I will have my crow with some rice and green beans on the side.

[boutons]

He's 11 - 8 in 28 mpg. Don't see why he can't do that @Spurs, pro-rated for his MPG.

Also 1 STL and 1 BPG, and 5!! ASTs, so that sounds like he's pretty good passer with some floor vision.

I bet that's what Pop expects of him.

Looking at Rasho's number @MIN, I bet Pop expected similar from Rasho as Spur.

If Nazr can put up his NYK numbers as a Spur (which is what we could have reasonably expected from Rasho), we'll all be very pleased with Nazr.

Well, not everybody. :)
I'm sure the Super-Malik-forever fans will piss on Nazr continuously.

[ducks]

wow boutons first postive post I have seen youpost in awhile

[whottt]

And I'm sure the Pop sucking Malik haters will continue to deride and trash a guy that didn't want to leave here, and defend this trade...no matter if Nazr sucks or not.


And I don't know what drugs you guys are taking...but Duncan does not help the numbers of other bigmen...

Had you guys been around when won a title in 99...you would know that one of the seminal points of that season occurred when Drob stepped back on offense and gave up his offensive numbers....gave them up. Gave up getting the ball early in the clock...let Duncan take on that role.


The reason Mohammed is probably not going to put up better rebounding numbers here is because Duncan is one of the best rebounders in the NBA and he gets to most of them before anyone else...including his own teamates.

Now this going to be balanced by the fact that Spurs opponents miss a lot more shots than the Knicks opponents do...but my money is on Duncan to still get to more rebounds than any one Nazr has ever played with.

The Spurs also don't miss as many shots as the Knicks do...our guards are shooting 50%...so I think there is going to be less Offensive rebounding opportunities for him as well.

Ditto garbage baskets...In addition to Duncan being probably the best block scorer in the NBA...he's also probably the best garbage man.

Guys that score off o rebound putbacks are gonna get less opportunities to do so playing alongside Tim Duncan because Duncan does those things better than just anyone in the NBA....


This not saying that Nazr is going to suck...but I don't think you are going to be able to measure his contributions to this team by looking at an improvement in NYK numbers...he might be able to put up better numbers than Rasho...

But I don't see anyway possible for him to put up better numbers than he was putting up in NY, with the type of game he has...and that's not the way I am going to judge him...I am going to judge him by Malik and Rasho's numbers(and our W-L record)...not his own Knick numbers. I think his own Knick numbers have nothing to do with the Spurs.

[boutons]

ducks, fuck you from here to Finals. Don't use my name in vain, or at all, shithead.

Duncan avg's 12 RPG, Spurs 42 RPG.

That's 30 RPG that Nazr can take a crack at, and why wouldn't Nazr, in best case, increase the Spurs RB pie larger than 42?

What I'd like to see at least two Spurs fighting EACH OTHER for every rebound. I've seen Manu take RBs off Tim.

[Jimcs50]

ducks, fuck you from here to Finals. Don't use my name in vain, or at all, shithead.

Duncan avg's 12 RPG, Spurs 42 RPG.

That's 30 RPG that Nazr can take a crack at, and why wouldn't Nazr, in best case, increase the Spurs RB pie larger than 42?

What I'd like to see at least two Spurs fighting EACH OTHER for every rebound. I've seen Manu take RBs off Tim.

boutons, please stop using the F word, we have already been scolded for doing so.

[timvp]

He's 11 - 8 in 28 mpg. Don't see why he can't do that @Spurs, pro-rated for his MPG.

Also 1 STL and 1 BPG, and 5!! ASTs, so that sounds like he's pretty good passer with some floor vision.

.5 assists.

[Jimcs50]

.5 assists.

.5 assists???

I think even the Coyote has .5 assists.

:)

[timvp]

One thing to remember is the Spurs' defense is played in a way that it doesn't allow players to attempt for offensive rebounds. They are taught to get back on defense rather than contest for the offensive boards. I wonder how Nazr will react to this defensive rule, seeing as that is one of his strengths as a basketball player.

[boutons]

oops, a miniscule disadvantage workin on a 1400 pixel laptop screen is
missing a few "." :)

[boutons]

"get back on defense rather than contest for the offensive boards"

Sounds too rigid.

If the opponent is not a fast-breaking, ball-pushing team, I'd hit the offensive boards rather than always get back and settle for "one-and-done", esp when the Spurs are having a cold-shooting night, where 70%+ of Spurs shots would be effectively TOs under Pop's rigid scheme.

[whottt]

boutons, please stop using the F word, we have already been scolded for doing so.


FUCK THAT. Profanity goes hand in hand with great discussions.

Every other Spurs board on the Net limits profanity, it's not like there is a shortage of them...this one doesn't....this one also has the best discussions....coincidence? No way.

When you start imposing limitations on people ability to express themselves the discussions are naturally going to suffer. Putting rigid constraints on individuals can only impair the free exchange of ideas...Put no contstraints on indivduals and the discussions will flourish...Fucking big time. Besides...some of us have a severely limited vocabulary if not allowed to use profanity.

On top of that...ever see Pop during a game? I study him during games to try and pick up new cuss words.

My other source of new cusswords is 13-15 years olds, who put my vast vocabulary of them to shame. Wake up.

[Jimcs50]

FUCK THAT. Profanity goes hand in hand with great discussions.

Every other Spurs board on the Net limits profanity, it's not like there is a shortage of them...this one doesn't....this one also has the best discussions....coincidence? No way.

When you start imposing limitations on people ability to express themselves the discussions are naturally going to suffer. Putting rigid constraints on individuals can only impair the free exchange of ideas...Put no contstraints on indivduals and the discussions will flourish...Fucking big time. Besides...some of us have a severely limited vocabulary if not allowed to use profanity.

On top of that...ever see Pop during a game? I study him during games to try and pick up new cuss words.

My other source of new cusswords is 13-15 years olds, who put my vast vocabulary of them to shame. Wake up.



dude, chill, I was being facetious.

:rolleyes

[whottt]

ducks, fuck you from here to Finals. Don't use my name in vain, or at all, shithead.

Duncan avg's 12 RPG, Spurs 42 RPG.

That's 30 RPG that Nazr can take a crack at, and why wouldn't Nazr, in best case, increase the Spurs RB pie larger than 42?

What I'd like to see at least two Spurs fighting EACH OTHER for every rebound. I've seen Manu take RBs off Tim.


That's good point, but guys are only able to get to a certain PCT of rebounds..it is kind of a zero sum game when guys are playing along side each other, just look at what happened to Duncan and Robinson. The Spurs are third in the NBA in rebounding PCT and most of those they don't get too are long boards from 3PA.

If Nazr is getting minutes alongside Duncan, theoretically his rebounding numbers should suffer...Although Nazr should still improve our offensive rebounding, especially when Duncan is off the court.

Now if Nazr starts eating into Duncan's rebounding totals..I think our overall rebounding will show a huge improvement...and I will judge this trade a smashing success.

[TwoHandJam]

Don't know if this has already been posted but it's a decent article.

link (http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_11763.shtml)

Bringing Mohammed to the Mountain
By Emmett Shaw
for HOOPSWORLD.com
Feb 24, 2005, 23:49

"Who is that?", asked the professional looking young father about the solidly built 6-10 shooter stroking several set-shots, most of them swishing, from one of Madison Square Garden's two free throw lines. "That's Mohammed," I replied. The khaki-clad man's 10-year-old son clicked off a couple more photos of the almost glistening player from the end zone's fourth row. Nazr Mohammed was in his new snow-white game togs -- no warmups. He was sweated up good already, 45 minutes before he was to start at center for New York in their second pre-season game.

Mark Aguirre was still nearby, after giving Nazr an ernest teaching workout under the basket. The Knicks assistant had fed his fellow Chicago native time and again, helping him refine the timing of his footwork, his moves: With both feet slightly in the air, catch strong with two hands, then briefly try to squeeeze some air from the NBA Spalding, elbows flared while turning into a powerful crouch, establishing either foot as a pivot. At the right rhythmic moment, a third of a second after the opponent begins to move the wrong way -- BAM -- explode every muscle to spring the ball over the iron for some dunkage. That too is Mohammed.

He was soon to tip-off with Rasho Nesterovic, a two inches taller man, a year and a half older man who was drafted only 12 choices ahead of him in 1998. Rasho is a more durable center who has outdistanced Nazr in the money-go-'round that is pro basketball, though Mohammed can't complain. In that Fall afternoon in New York 19 weeks ago, both players so exuded hope from progress they had made through their summer of work!

Both have a Championship past, Nesterovic with Euroleague's Kinder, Mohammed in the NCAA with Kentucky. But those runs were now several years ago. Both centers went at it hard in preseason last October 16th, pushing each other, yet both refusing to be pushed around. Now after the NBA's latest trade deadline, they are set to push each other all the time -- as teammates with San Antonio. Rasho was the more fundamentally polished prospect in the first round of that 1998 Draft. Nazr was the more athletic project, the last person selected.

Thanks to the Knicks' Isiah Thomas wheeling and dealing -- which got his team nowhere -- he needed to replenish his young talent or get more poker chips to keep playing Texas Hold 'em, and obtaining extra draft picks was his only way to do that. Having no chips left had already cost him any chance at Chris Webber, who now relocates to rival Philadelphia.

Isiah had to do something to buy himself more time from New York's Cablevision ownership and from the big town's impatient media. You can almost hear him. "I hit with Trevor Ariza in the 2nd round, didn't I. Watch what I do with a couple of number ones." Thus San Antonio, owning excess future choices, got a taker for Malik Rose's big contract.

The NBA money-go-'round creates a money crunch at times, and Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Tim Duncan, and Rasho control so much of the Spurs' pie chart the next few years that a reserve like Malik has had a wedge-shaped spatula shoved underneath his tail for the last year and a half. He knew it. He didn't like it, but he accepted the facts of multi-millionaire life in today's NBA.

The ongoing tension -- over two years old -- between Coach Popovich and Malik was an outgrowth of the situation, explained a friend of the Rose family to HOOPSWORLD. Also, "Malik just wanted to play, and Popovich wasn't letting him do that." Further, Rose is a man who speaks his mind, and when Pop sometimes didn't like what his ultra-hustling banger had to say, the tension was natural. Ironically, Malik is not a man who likes the dishing out and taking of an in-house fight. He never took sick enjoyment from his tiffs with Pop. But Rose didn't let it get to him, either. "He's too professional to let it bother him."

What was stressed over and over to HOOPSWORLD is what a nice person Malik Rose is, with the same being said of all his many family members who have relocated from Philadelphia to live in San Antonio. The loving, human side of a sports trade could be cut with a Ginsu knife at Rose's Malik's Philly's Phamous restaurant in SA after the trade news broke. Customers, usually couples or parents with kids, quietly ordered and ate cheese steaks, sometimes studying the ESPN ticker on the overhead televisions, checking whether the Rose for Mohammed swap was actually official.

There was a lot of sentiment to the experience. You step up to order from a menu that merely includes "Timmy's MVP Sandwich", "Pop's Pizza", "Manu's Pizza Steak", the "Admiral's Sub", and so on. Rose, not Tim Duncan, was the man who took the microphone at David Robinson's gala tribute after a March 2003 game, a tilt that saw Joel Pryzbilla nearly end Malik's season with a flagrant foul. To think back on 7 1/2 seasons of Rose in Silver and Black and look at that menu made every patron's eyes water.

"I hated basketball. But because of Malik, I love to watch the Spurs. He's the only reason I like the Spurs. I take it back to when he had the 'fro. I love him. I'm heart-broken," said Vanessa Rosales at the eatery. She had brought a large sign reading, "We Love You, Malik! Good Luck in the Big Apple!" Vanessa's date stressed that the Spurs would never have won it all in 2003 without Rose, reminiscing, "I remember especially when they beat the Lakers how happy he was. Just watching him celebrate when they beat the Lakers was great. Then that dunk on Mutombo in the Finals! It was awesome!"

For the diner's part though, he likes the trade. "I think it's a good trade. Mohammed -- he's a physical player who's pretty good. The Spurs'll be good, but I hate to see Malik go. It's a lot like when Sean was traded (in 2003). That hurt." Yes, it hurts. Malik was tearful on the local Channel 4 News tonight. What truly hurts the most is the breaking of the daily bond in the locker room and in the NBA trenches with his SA teammates. Every one of them he loves, Rose stressed.

How much like a heavy novel or wrenching movie the NBA often is! An incentive moment sets the theme, the characters -- more and more of them -- grow on you, the action intesifies, then culminates. In Malik Rose's last game as a Spur, it went just that way. Everything culminated when the intensity got to be too much for the Houston Rockets. The Spurs got in passing lanes in the final period and Houston's offense fell apart, while the Spurs completely went off. Malik Rose pulled the chair one last time on Juwan Howard and Tony Massenburg pulled 8 rebounds in 20 minutes, the kind of pace Pop can only hope Nazr Mohammed can do.

Nazr truly is a taller, younger Massenburg. There can be no doubt that Larry Brown, Mohammed's first NBA coach was fully consulted about the newest Spur. When Aguirre put Mohammed through his paces before the afore-mentioned preseason game, SA general manager RC Buford was beside the players' tunnel looking on. What Nesterovic lacks, the ability to finish, Nazr adds. Unlike Rasho, Mohammed is over a 50% shooter. When Duncan drops a dime on Mohammed, the ball will be as good as already in the hole. Spurs fans can only be greatful that the exchange wasn't for Kurt Thomas. Kurt's contract is much longer than Nazr's and Kurt can't move his feet quickly enough on D to close off the baseline drives of funneled foes.

Bill Walton said it so well early in the season on Boomer Esaison's TV program, and his words have now been answered by RC Buford and the Spurs front office. "The Spurs seem to be a big man down," said Walton, referring to Duncan and Nesterovic being the only centers on the team. In contrast, Detroit won it last year with the two Wallaces, Mehmet Okur, and Elden Campbell all chipping in. With Mohammed's addition, the Spurs are ready to battle either the Wallaces or Shaq and 'Zo in the Finals. But there may yet be hairy playoff moments against Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Shawn Marion, or Rashard Lewis when Malik Rose's quickly moving feet -- combined with his muscle and hustle -- are missing from Pop's discretion.

The Spurs are more fit to win an NBA Finals today than before the trade, but are no closer to getting out of the West, and may be a bit further away. Lamond Murray couldn't find his way onto the Spurs roster in trade, and the injured Linton Johnson III, another swing-forward type who could help against the finesse Western teams, still can't push off hard on his repaired left foot. Johnson's chance with the Spurs appears a season away. San Antonio's third trip to the Finals rides largely on the success of the Spurs' small lineups manned by Brent Barry and Devin Brown.

[whottt]

That is an awesome article, that just about nails it.


We are going to have to count on Horry to step up against Garnett and the like.

But there is one thing...Larry Brown might be Pop's friend, but he's also the coach of the defending champions and he's smart enough to realize who his biggest threat is....He traded Mohammed...actions speak louder.