just curious about people's belief systems....

[Blake]

spinning off the other thread, which of these do you believe in?

1. God(s)
2. magic (not from God or copperfield)
3. ghosts
4. aliens
5. reincarnation
6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc
7. karma

[CubanMustGo]

Wouldn't this be better as a poll?

[I Love Me Some Me]

spinning off the other thread, which of these do you believe in?

1. God(s) yes
2. magic (not from God or copperfield) yes
3. ghosts yes
4. aliens uncertain, but don't think so
5. reincarnation no
6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc yes and no
7. karma I wouldn't call it karma, but I believe you reap what you sow

[jaffies]

flying spaghetti monster!!

[BacktoBasics]

Ghosts but not aliens. Interesting.

[I Love Me Some Me]

Ghosts but not aliens. Interesting.

:lol

Didn't say no to aliens, just that I was uncertain.

[BacktoBasics]

You said

I don't think so

thats pretty much a no.

[xtremesteven33]

1. God(s) yes 1 God
2. magic (not from God or copperfield) Yes
3. ghosts No
4. aliens No
5. reincarnation No
6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc Yes
7. karma No

[I Love Me Some Me]

You said

I don't think so

thats pretty much a no.

No...I said "Uncertain, but I don't think so", which pretty much means I don't think so. If I wanted to say "no", I would have done so (much like I did with reincarnation).

So tell me why you find it interesting that I'd say yes to ghosts and "I don't think so" to aliens?

[baseline bum]

What does believing in magic mean? Do I believe that Penn & Teller can pull of crazy shit? Or are you asking if I believed Jesus turned water into wine?

[ORION]

strange......what about magic does everyone believe. Like casting spells ?

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

1. God(s) - yes
2. magic (not from God or copperfield) - no
3. ghosts - yes
4. aliens - with the size of the universe there almost has to be something else out there, but I'm not completely convinced that they've dropped by Earth just yet.
5. reincarnation - no
6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc - not these specifically
7. karma - as a concept, but not a cosmic force

[BacktoBasics]

So tell me why you find it interesting that I'd say yes to ghosts and "I don't think so" to aliens?There is a lot more evidence to support other life than after life.

I'm not saying believe or disbelieve in either.

[Blake]

God=yes
ghosts=yes



so when people die, some actually get stuck here haunting a place instead of going to Heaven or Hell?

[Blake]

What does believing in magic mean? Do I believe that Penn & Teller can pull of crazy shit? Or are you asking if I believed Jesus turned water into wine?

I dunno. there's a poster that roams around known as Bubba McBrewski that calls himself a Wiccan. Doesn't believe in a God per se as much as just a giant mystic force.

I guess just your general wizard warlock witch type stuff or any other that someone might want to expand on.

[JoeChalupa]

God is #1 baby!!!
I know a few lame magic tricks.
The others are interesting.

[Blake]

spinning off the other thread, which of these do you believe in?

1. God(s)
2. magic (not from God or copperfield)
3. ghosts
4. aliens
5. reincarnation
6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc
7. karma

for the record I believe in God and a few government coverups.

I also don't believe there is intelligent life out there as advanced as us.

[angel_luv]

spinning off the other thread, which of these do you believe in?

1. God- I believe Jesus is the one and only Savior of the World. "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."- John 14:6

2. magic (not from God or copperfield)- If not from God or man- where would magic come from?
3. ghosts- I believe in angels and demons and that both can take on many different appearances. " Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it." -Hebrews 13:2 and " And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light."- 2 Corinthians 11:14

4. aliens- See above

5. reincarnation-no. " Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment," Hebrew 9:27

6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc- Yes, to an extent.


7. karma- I believe you reap what you sow. " Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows." - Galations 6:7

[to21]

Karma and God are almost neck and neck on my list.

[tonylongoriafan]

i like JEBUS

[BacktoBasics]

I find it funny that Angel Luv bases almost all her posts on Bible quotes. Out of all the things available to substantiate Jesus and Christianity she chooses to quote the one item that was manipulated the most.

Someone post this in the God thread for me.

[tlongII]

I believe aliens exist, but I have no idea if they've visited earth yet or not. That's the only thing I'm certain of. I just hope I'm alive when we are visited or make contact in some fashion. That will really mess with a lot of fundamentalist views.

[angel_luv]

I find it funny that Angel Luv bases almost all her posts on Bible quotes. Out of all the things available to substantiate Jesus and Christianity she chooses to quote the one item that was manipulated the most.

Someone post this in the God thread for me.

Given the context of your post, I am compelled to inquire: What is it that assures you of the unbiased authenticity of your sources?

I talk to the Author of my Faith on a daily basis. Your history books are heresay, in the sense that you have never spoken to the writers of it.

[clambake]

angel luv could have ended up in the ash of a certain waco compound.

[MiamiHeat]

1. God(s) - yes, the flying spaghetti monster. All Hail the One True God. RAmen.
2. magic (not from God or copperfield) - no
3. ghosts - no
4. aliens - the kind that visits earth? no. life on another planet somewhere? yes
5. reincarnation - no
6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc - no
7. karma - not sure yet. i dont know

[byrontx]

1. God(s) [B]-Lots. If there is one particular god in charge of earth he/she is a mistake-prone artist.
2. magic (not from God or copperfield)No-kinda. I won't go out of my way to piss off a bruja.
3. ghosts-Maybe life is an energy field that lives on past the body?
4. aliens-They are there, waiting for intelligent life to show up here.
5. reincarnation-Hope so. I'll do better next time.
6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc-With Cheney in there, of course!
7. karma-I wish. There some suckers that deserve some grief.

[I Love Me Some Me]

There is a lot more evidence to support other life than after life.

I'm not saying believe or disbelieve in either.

I don't know that there's ANY physical evidence to support either.

[baseline bum]

1. God(s) - no, I don't believe in the supernatural
2. magic (not from God or copperfield) - no, see 1
3. ghosts - no, see 1
4. aliens - yes, it's hard to believe there isn't at least single-cell life somewhere nearby
5. reincarnation - no, see 1
6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc - Too vague. I don't believe Bush and Cheney brought down the towers or that there was a second gunman who killed Kennedy.
7. karma - no, see 1

[BacktoBasics]

Given the context of your post, I am compelled to inquire: What is it that assures you of the unbiased authenticity of your sources?

I talk to the Author of my Faith on a daily basis. Your history books are heresay, in the sense that you have never spoken to the writers of it.
God was not the Author of the Bible. Christians have manipulated the text over many centuries. Not to mention there is a complete lack of difinative authorship. That is historical fact and its even confirmed by Christian followers. Its widely accepted that Christians changed, deleted and manipulated tons of text to fit the mold.

You seem to think the bible was penned right out of Jesus' mouth.

Not all of my sources are purely authenticated. I never said they were. However a large portion of my argument stems from physical Calendars that pre-dated Jesus. So I have original physical evidence. Even Christians don't deny their existence....and of course I've cited text or books that are referencable in original form.

[101A]

I find it funny that Angel Luv bases almost all her posts on Bible quotes. Out of all the things available to substantiate Jesus and Christianity she chooses to quote the one item that was manipulated the most.

Someone post this in the God thread for me.

The faith of a child is revered in the Bible. Angel Luv's faith is, frankly, impressive; as is her willingness to express it despite extensive ridicule and scorn.

[101A]

God was not the Author of the Bible. Christians have manipulated the text over many centuries. Not to mention there is a complete lack of difinative authorship. That is historical fact and its even confirmed by Christian followers. Its widely accepted that Christians changed, deleted and manipulated tons of text to fit the mold.



Link.

[101A]

1. God(s) - no, I don't believe in the supernatural
2. magic (not from God or copperfield) - no, see 1
3. ghosts - no, see 1
4. aliens - yes, it's hard to believe there isn't at least single-cell life somewhere nearby
5. reincarnation - no, see 1
6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc - Too vague. I don't believe Bush and Cheney brought down the towers or that there was a second gunman who killed Kennedy.
7. karma - no, see 1

Not picking a fight here, but where do you think all of this came from, or do you not worry about it, and figure we'll figure it out when we figure it out?

[BacktoBasics]

Link.There are numerous posts in this thread including references supporting my statement.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112981

[sonic21]

Aliens- yes
but i don't think we'll ever see one

[BacktoBasics]

The faith of a child is revered in the Bible. Angel Luv's faith is, frankly, impressive; as is her willingness to express it despite extensive ridicule and scorn.I never said it wasn't impressive. I just pointed out that she constantly references something thats of little value. The oldest known bible (if I remember correctly) is from around the 4th Century.

She's repeating what she's been told to repeat and thats the bible is "Gods word". Only god or Jesus didn't write the bible.

[Blake]

Link.

see: history of Bible

speakin of which.......which one is more correct......the King James, the New King James, the New American Standard, the Living or any one of 10 others that I'm missing?

[101A]

see: history of Bible

speakin of which.......which one is more correct......the King James, the New King James, the New American Standard, the Living or any one of 10 others that I'm missing?

The only one that is absolutely correct is the original Greek; all others are (different) people's attempts at translating them - to differing degrees of success, and much of the nuance is lost in translation - fortunately the Bible Study group I'm a member of includes an Antiquities professor - it helps keep (wrong) literal translations at bay. NIV (The New International Version) is my personal favorite - and my own is HEAVILY foot-noted to denote where there is questionable nuance in the translation.

[BacktoBasics]

I was just browsing some blurbs on the oldest know bible. Inconsistancies never cease to amaze me.

The Codex - and other early manuscripts - do not mention the ascension of Jesus into heaven, and omit key references to the Resurrection, which the Archbishop of Canterbury has said is essential for Christian belief.

Other differences concern how Jesus behaved. In one passage of the Codex, Jesus is said to be “angry” as he healed a leper, whereas the modern text records him as healing with “compassion”.

Also missing is the story of the woman taken in adultery and about to be stoned - until Jesus rebuked the Pharisees (a Jewish sect), inviting anyone without sin to cast the first stone.

Nor are there words of forgiveness from the cross. Jesus does not say “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”.


......and you guys think you're reading the words of Jesus verbatim.

[BacktoBasics]

The only one that is absolutely correct is the original Greek; all others are (different) people's attempts at translating them - to differing degrees of success, and much of the nuance is lost in translation - fortunately the Bible Study group I'm a member of includes an Antiquities professor - it helps keep (wrong) literal translations at bay. NIV (The New International Version) is my personal favorite - and my own is HEAVILY foot-noted to denote where there is questionable nuance in the translation.Oh so know you claim to know which one is "absolutely" correct.

[ashbeeigh]

1. God(s)

Yes. 100%



2. magic (not from God or copperfield)

In the "oh my god! He just cut that guy in half" sense..yes. But all that crap can be explained. So no. No magic.



3. ghosts

Sure, why the heck not.



4. aliens

Like SFIE said, with all this space out there, there is bound o be "something" out there.



5. reincarnation

Naw. I don't believe in it. To each their own though.

6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc

:lmao



7. karma

Again, like SFIE said, as a concept, but not in reality. It's more of a "what goes around comes around" kind of thing for me.

[101A]

I never said it wasn't impressive. I just pointed out that she constantly references something thats of little value. The oldest known bible (if I remember correctly) is from around the 4th Century.

She's repeating what she's been told to repeat and thats the bible is "Gods word". Only god or Jesus didn't write the bible.

The oldest pieces, or fragments of differing religious texts dates to the 2nd century, but from what I can tell, the existence of previous pieces, the earliest being the letters of Paul, is not questioned as dating to the mid 1st century.

[101A]

Oh so know you claim to know which one is "absolutely" correct.

Don't take my words out of context, please. I was referring to the translation of the book; I have not discussed my beliefs regarding the book's accuracy in denoting historical events.

[ashbeeigh]

......and you guys think you're reading the words of Jesus verbatim.

I know full well what I'm reading when I read the Bible. I know that what I am reading could have been translated from the original Greek into Armenian into many different languages over the many years the text has been on the Earth.

I also know that there is lots of controversy about what has and has not been included in the Bible, like Gnostic Gospels.

The books that are included in the New Testament are written by people who lived with Jesus, and they were passed down from generation from generation. Of course things are going to get lost. I don't know why you get so angry about these things.

[Blake]

The only one that is absolutely correct is the original Greek; all others are (different) people's attempts at translating them - to differing degrees of success, and much of the nuance is lost in translation - fortunately the Bible Study group I'm a member of includes an Antiquities professor - it helps keep (wrong) literal translations at bay. NIV (The New International Version) is my personal favorite - and my own is HEAVILY foot-noted to denote where there is questionable nuance in the translation.

Interesting......

If my eternal life depended on it and the only one that was correct was the Greek one, I'd learn to read Greek pretty quick instead of going with the NIV.

[BacktoBasics]

I know full well what I'm reading when I read the Bible. I know that what I am reading could have been translated from the original Greek into Armenian into many different languages over the many years the text has been on the Earth.

I also know that there is lots of controversy about what has and has not been included in the Bible, like Gnostic Gospels.

The books that are included in the New Testament are written by people who lived with Jesus, and they were passed down from generation from generation. Of course things are going to get lost. I don't know why you get so angry about these things.
I'm not angry.

[101A]

Interesting......

If my eternal life depended on it and the only one that was correct was the Greek one, I'd learn to read Greek pretty quick instead of going with the NIV.


Not really.

Eternal salvation isn't in the details, or the fine print (as Christians believe it, anyway); THAT part is a pretty reliable.

[Blake]

Yes. 100%



In the "oh my god! He just cut that guy in half" sense..yes. But all that crap can be explained. So no. No magic.



Sure, why the heck not.



Like SFIE said, with all this space out there, there is bound o be "something" out there.



Naw. I don't believe in it. To each their own though.


:lmao



Again, like SFIE said, as a concept, but not in reality. It's more of a "what goes around comes around" kind of thing for me.


maybe I should be more specific....

I wonder what people believe when they believe in both Jesus and in intelligent life on other planets...........as in, if an alien sins, does Jesus have to go to a planet such as Tattooine and die for their sins over there too?

[Blake]

Not really.

Eternal salvation isn't in the details, or the fine print (as Christians believe it, anyway); THAT part is a pretty reliable.

then why is the fine print included in the manual at all?

[101A]

then why is the fine print included in the manual at all?


Because life isn't all about getting to Heaven.

[ashbeeigh]

I wonder what people believe when they believe in both Jesus and in intelligent life on other planets...........as in, if an alien sins, does Jesus have to go to a planet such as Tattooine and die for their sins over there too?

If that alien believes that Jesus died on the cross for his sins why not.

[BacktoBasics]

If that alien believes that Jesus died on the cross for his sins why not.
Angel Ash or beeighLuv Forum

[Blake]

If that alien believes that Jesus died on the cross for his sins why not.

if 101A is right, then that alien better know Greek

[Blake]

Because life isn't all about getting to Heaven.

ehhhhhhhhh......

the preacher at [insert church here] tells me every Sunday it is while passing the plate around.

Thing is, if the fine print is susceptible to scrutiny, then the entire Bible is.

[CuckingFunt]

spinning off the other thread, which of these do you believe in?

1. God(s)
2. magic (not from God or copperfield)
3. ghosts
4. aliens
5. reincarnation
6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc
7. karma

1. no
2. no
3. yes
4. yes; but not bug-eyed Roswell abduction mythology, etc.
5. no; but my mind is open to the possibility because I like the idea
6. hmmm... I can't think of any specific conspiracy theories that I believe, but I think it's naive to assume that the government is completely free of secrets and sneaky associations
7. short answer no, with a but; long answer yes, with an if -- I believe in the power of positive thought and positive energy, but because I think that people who are positive are more likely to see/feel the good in their lives, rather than because I think there is some supernatural force paying attention to whether or not I smiled at an old lady

[Blake]

1. no
2. no
3. yes
4. yes; but not bug-eyed Roswell abduction mythology, etc.
5. no; but my mind is open to the possibility because I like the idea
6. hmmm... I can't think of any specific conspiracy theories that I believe, but I think it's naive to assume that the government is completely free of secrets and sneaky associations
7. short answer no, with a but; long answer yes, with an if -- I believe in the power of positive thought and positive energy, but because I think that people who are positive are more likely to see/feel the good in their lives, rather than because I think there is some supernatural force paying attention to whether or not I smiled at an old lady

ok, so no God and no magic, but there is some supernatural force that runs the karma system, and I'm guessing also has something to do with the ghosts you believe exist?

Interesting.......so do you believe our souls were created by this same force?

[balli]

1. God(s)- I believe in there being a higher power in the universe. Possibly the Universe itself. I do not believe in any Christian/Islamic/Judaical description of God.

2. magic (not from God or copperfield)- No

3. ghost- Jury's out, but I'm inclined to think the paranormal does probably exist.

4. aliens- Yes. That visit earth? No.

5. reincarnation- I hope not, or I better start taking Karma a lot more seriously.

6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc- Yes. Though I don't think 9/11 masterminded by America, I do believe Bush knew and allowed it to happen on purpose. And I'm starting to believe that the NWO is being put in place as of right now.

7. karma- Only insomuch that if I believed in re-incarnation, I would believe in Karma's effects upon it. But not one bit in terms of it affecting me in this lifetime. In fact, I hate when people propagate Karma as an influence in their daily lives.

[jack sommerset]

When you are dead, you are dead. Lights out. The end.

[ashbeeigh]

Angel Ash or beeighLuv Forum

WTF is that supposed to mean?


if 101A is right, then that alien better know Greek

Jesus will be able to communicate with the alien in the Jesus way...whatever that is.



:lol That was a ridiculous reply. Sorry.

[balli]

WTF is that supposed to mean?

To be honest, something about the name ashbeeigh just screams Angel Luv to me. I don't know why, but I've always thought so and when I read your posts I always momentarily mix you two up for a few milliseconds.

[ashbeeigh]

To be honest, something about the name ashbeeigh just screams Angel Luv to me. I don't know why, but I've always thought so and when I read your posts I always momentarily mix you two up for a few milliseconds.


:lol It's not a big deal. We're both God people and we post about what's going on in our lives here. Neither of us talk about our sexual exploits, or lack there of here, like some people do. I can understand it. We each get our fair about of shit. I usually fight back, though.

[CuckingFunt]

ok, so no God and no magic, but there is some supernatural force that runs the karma system, and I'm guessing also has something to do with the ghosts you believe exist?

Interesting.......so do you believe our souls were created by this same force?

I specifically said I didn't believe in a supernatural karma system.

And I do believe in ghosts, I have been in situations in which I've felt a ghostly presence, but I don't know that I necessarily believe that it is a supernatural belief. It could be a soul that didn't make it into heaven, or hell, or wherever we go, but it could also be purely metaphysical -- an energy or life force that was left behind.

[koriwhat]

i believe in myself... that's it.

[Blake]

Jesus will be able to communicate with the alien in the Jesus way...whatever that is.



:lol That was a ridiculous reply. Sorry.

my point was not meant for the alien visitors to our planet.........I'm talking about the other planet. What about all of those aliens?

Are they eternally doomed because they can't get the Bible over there? Or are they like the primitives in the Australian outback that can't read or write?

[Blake]

I specifically said I didn't believe in a supernatural karma system.

And I do believe in ghosts, I have been in situations in which I've felt a ghostly presence, but I don't know that I necessarily believe that it is a supernatural belief. It could be a soul that didn't make it into heaven, or hell, or wherever we go, but it could also be purely metaphysical -- an energy or life force that was left behind.

oh ok......since you said "no" to believing in God, I was just wondering where this focused energy came from in which we are able to have a 'soul'.

I'm also wondering how heaven and hell might exist for you......but no God.....

not trying to argue......just trying to get it.

[ElMuerto]

When you are dead, you are dead. Lights out. The end.

I wish.

[ashbeeigh]

my point was not meant for the alien visitors to our planet.........I'm talking about the other planet. What about all of those aliens?

Are they eternally doomed because they can't get the Bible over there? Or are they like the primitives in the Australian outback that can't read or write?

Well, a good Christian alien would bring a copy of the Bible he found on Earth and bring it to his home planet and begin to translate it into his own language. While doing that he would spread the Gospel through his language.

Are they doomed because of ignorance? I myself do not believe so, they'll go to wherever their alien beliefs take them (whether its reincarnation or just death) until this new Christian alien comes along to tell them about this wonderful place called heaven.

And then, I know you'll bring up the explorers and the inquisition, etc. Who knows. This is my hypothetical little alien world.

[CuckingFunt]

oh ok......since you said "no" to believing in God, I was just wondering where this focused energy came from in which we are able to have a 'soul'.

I'm also wondering how heaven and hell might exist for you......but no God.....

not trying to argue......just trying to get it.

I put myself squarely in the category of spiritual, but unconvinced. I don't believe in a specific god (or gods) because I haven't seen enough evidence to believe that one exists, not because I'm 100% convinced that one does not. There's no doubt in my mind that there are things in this universe for which science has absolutely no explanation, I just haven't found any other explanations that seem plausible, either.

[JoeChalupa]

I put myself squarely in the category of spiritual, but unconvinced. I don't believe in a specific god (or gods) because I haven't seen enough evidence to believe that one exists, not because I'm 100% convinced that one does not. There's no doubt in my mind that there are things in this universe for which science has absolutely no explanation, I just haven't found any other explanations that seem plausible, either.

So you are not convinced of your own spirituality?

[CuckingFunt]

So you are not convinced of your own spirituality?

I'm not convinced that my spirituality translates to the actual, tangible existence of a specific god or myth structure.

I have always felt that spirituality, in general, is the result of early humans living in a world far more advanced than their understanding. At the very core of most religions, no matter how big or small, you can somewhat see the gears turning -- you can see how so many of the myths within these religions seem to address the same few unanswerable questions about who we are, why we're here, and how this planet works.

For me, most of these questions have now been answered by science, which makes it difficult for me to really believe any of the religious explanations for the questions that haven't been answered. Ultimately, I'm spiritual enough to accept that science may not ever explain everything, and I'm spiritual enough to admit that I like certain beliefs (reincarnation and karma, for instance, sound kind of nifty to me), but I'm just too logic minded to jump in feet first and believe that they're possible.

[JoeChalupa]

I'm not convinced that my spirituality translates to the actual, tangible existence of a specific god or myth structure.

I have always felt that spirituality, in general, is the result of early humans living in a world far more advanced than their understanding. At the very core of most religions, no matter how big or small, you can somewhat see the gears turning -- you can see how so many of the myths within these religions seem to address the same few unanswerable questions about who we are, why we're here, and how this planet works.

For me, most of these questions have now been answered by science, which makes it difficult for me to really believe any of the religious explanations for the questions that haven't been answered. Ultimately, I'm spiritual enough to accept that science may not ever explain everything, and I'm spiritual enough to admit that I like certain beliefs (reincarnation and karma, for instance, sound kind of nifty to me), but I'm just too logic minded to jump in feet first and believe that they're possible.

I can understand that. Well said. I just know some who become very spiritual when it suits them.....like when they need help.

[E20]

spinning off the other thread, which of these do you believe in?

1. God(s)
2. magic (not from God or copperfield)
3. ghosts
4. aliens
5. reincarnation
6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc
7. karma

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. No
6. Maybe
7. Yes

[ploto]

I find it funny that Angel Luv bases almost all her posts on Bible quotes. Out of all the things available to substantiate Jesus and Christianity she chooses to quote the one item that was manipulated the most.

My question would be at what point in her faith does it become enough a part of her that she can explain what she believes in her own words, as opposed to quoting words written by someone else. This thread is an inquiry as to what each person believes, and I would expect an answer more personal, whereby some people are willing to examine themselves and to express their personal beliefs in their own statements. In some ways simply quoting scripture is a cop-out because the person is "hiding" behind some statements that he or she believes can not be challenged. To express yourself in your own way and in your own words requires a willingness to put yourself out there and have your notions and ideas examined and possibly critiqued by others. Sorry, but I do not admire it as some have posted because I think it is lazy contemplation not even to attempt your own expression of faith.

As to the original questions--
Yes- to God and ghosts (if by ghosts you mean spirits and not Caspar)

Yes- to the potential for governmental conspiracies, although not those specific ones

Yes- to karma, as in life is a circle and what goes around comes around

No to real magic (not tricks); no to reincarnation; and a big I don't know to intelligent life forms on other planets

[Blake]

Well, a good Christian alien would bring a copy of the Bible he found on Earth and bring it to his home planet and begin to translate it into his own language. While doing that he would spread the Gospel through his language.

Are they doomed because of ignorance? I myself do not believe so, they'll go to wherever their alien beliefs take them (whether its reincarnation or just death) until this new Christian alien comes along to tell them about this wonderful place called heaven.

And then, I know you'll bring up the explorers and the inquisition, etc. Who knows. This is my hypothetical little alien world.

if they are not doomed because of ignorance, then they were better off not knowing, weren't they......

if it were me, I'd beat the crap out of the alien that came back to my planet and "enlightened" me.

[Blake]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. No
6. No
7. No


I still wonder what people who believe in God and aliens feel what God's plan for aliens is......

anyone recall the old Star Trek episode where the Enterprise was trapped by Apollo?

[E20]

I still wonder what people who believe in God and aliens feel what God's plan for aliens is......

anyone recall the old Star Trek episode where the Enterprise was trapped by Apollo?
As far as aliens go, I don't think sentient beings or humanoid life forms exist that are advanced enough to have thought and emotional systems such as we do or the ability to believe and conceive of higher powers, if they do then shiiieeet. But life as in microscopic organisms or simple ones outside of Earth I think do exist. Ghosts, I am assuming souls, I think exist. Magic depending on the definition is a yes for me, if the definition is a deception to show somebody something contrary to reality then yes, if it is Harry Potter stuff then no. I would also change Karma from no to yes, I think what you do (not little things) eventually comes back to you in one way or another. Also change government conspiracies to a maybe.....you never know. LOL

[balli]

As far as aliens go, I don't think sentient beings or humanoid life forms exist that are advanced enough to have thought and emotional systems such as we do or the ability to believe and conceive of higher powers,

Why not? I don't see, given the size of the Universe, how there couldn't be. What makes our lowly solar system so special in comparison to the billions of others?

[2Blonde]

I find it funny that Angel Luv bases almost all her posts on Bible quotes. Out of all the things available to substantiate Jesus and Christianity she chooses to quote the one item that was manipulated the most.

Someone post this in the God thread for me.


Given the context of your post, I am compelled to inquire: What is it that assures you of the unbiased authenticity of your sources?

I talk to the Author of my Faith on a daily basis. Your history books are heresay, in the sense that you have never spoken to the writers of it.


God was not the Author of the Bible. Christians have manipulated the text over many centuries. Not to mention there is a complete lack of difinative authorship. That is historical fact and its even confirmed by Christian followers. Its widely accepted that Christians changed, deleted and manipulated tons of text to fit the mold.

You seem to think the bible was penned right out of Jesus' mouth.

Not all of my sources are purely authenticated. I never said they were. However a large portion of my argument stems from physical Calendars that pre-dated Jesus. So I have original physical evidence. Even Christians don't deny their existence....and of course I've cited text or books that are referencable in original form.


The faith of a child is revered in the Bible. Angel Luv's faith is, frankly, impressive; as is her willingness to express it despite extensive ridicule and scorn.


I never said it wasn't impressive. I just pointed out that she constantly references something thats of little value. The oldest known bible (if I remember correctly) is from around the 4th Century.

She's repeating what she's been told to repeat and thats the bible is "Gods word". Only god or Jesus didn't write the bible.


I was just browsing some blurbs on the oldest know bible. Inconsistancies never cease to amaze me.

The Codex - and other early manuscripts - do not mention the ascension of Jesus into heaven, and omit key references to the Resurrection, which the Archbishop of Canterbury has said is essential for Christian belief.

Other differences concern how Jesus behaved. In one passage of the Codex, Jesus is said to be “angry” as he healed a leper, whereas the modern text records him as healing with “compassion”.

Also missing is the story of the woman taken in adultery and about to be stoned - until Jesus rebuked the Pharisees (a Jewish sect), inviting anyone without sin to cast the first stone.

Nor are there words of forgiveness from the cross. Jesus does not say “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”.


......and you guys think you're reading the words of Jesus verbatim.

At mass this Sunday, our priest discussed this exact subject. I thought his words on this subject were very interesting. He said... "The bible is a historical collection of stories, anthologies and moments. It's purpose is to illustrate and illuminate our faith. Faith is much greater than a list of facts. Faith begins where knowledge and facts end..."

I loved this description and I also think it describes Angel Luv's faith to a tee. She is a walking/talking human reminder of how a true deep faith can guide you in all areas of your life. I think I have a pretty strong faith but I know it pales in comparison to the level of faith that she demonstrates on a daily basis. You have to admire that!:toast

PS... I also love the way B2B riles things up. It keeps it lively around here.:lol

[E20]

Why not? I don't see, given the size of the Universe, how there couldn't be. What makes our lowly solar system so special in comparison to the billions of others?
By random chance and evolution I do not think it is possible for another planet to have such a highly advanced array of species at hand. Also, by being a biology major and studying major concepts of how complex organisms at a high level can be I just don't think that by chance there could be organisms as advanced as us. I have also had discussions with my science Professors regarding this topic and they also think that it is highly improbable that through Darwinian and Macro-evolution that there can arise a species on the same tier as us.

That's the way I see or think it. If by some means we are contacted by an advanced being from outer space then I am wrong, but in my opinion simple/microscopic organisms or even some simple quadrupeds exist.

[ashbeeigh]

if they are not doomed because of ignorance, then they were better off not knowing, weren't they......

if it were me, I'd beat the crap out of the alien that came back to my planet and "enlightened" me.

We're talking about hypothetical aliens here. :rolleyes

If you really thing I'm going to get my panties in a wad about this then you found the wrong person to discuss this with.

[baseline bum]

By random chance and evolution I do not think it is possible for another planet to have such a highly advanced array of species at hand. Also, by being a biology major and studying major concepts of how complex organisms at a high level can be I just don't think that by chance there could be organisms as advanced as us. I have also had discussions with my science Professors regarding this topic and they also think that it is highly improbable that through Darwinian and Macro-evolution that there can arise a species on the same tier as us.


To think this planet that has only been here 4.5 billion years is the only place complex life can form is equivalent to completely dismissing evolution as an explanation for our existence. There is water all over, there are heavy metals, there are countless sun-like stars, and so on in the known universe. To think it could only happen here would immediately point to intelligent design.

[2Blonde]

By random chance and evolution I do not think it is possible for another planet to have such a highly advanced array of species at hand. Also, by being a biology major and studying major concepts of how complex organisms at a high level can be I just don't think that by chance there could be organisms as advanced as us. I have also had discussions with my science Professors regarding this topic and they also think that it is highly improbable that through Darwinian and Macro-evolution that there can arise a species on the same tier as us.

That's the way I see or think it. If by some means we are contacted by an advanced being from outer space then I am wrong, but in my opinion simple/microscopic organisms or even some simple quadrupeds exist.


To think this planet that has only been here 4.5 billion years is the only place complex life can form is equivalent to completely dismissing evolution as an explanation for our existence. There is water all over, there are heavy metals, there are countless sun-like stars, and so on in the known universe. To think it could only happen here would immediately point to intelligent design.
I agree with most of what you are saying. By faith in Jesus Christ,I am a christian yet by education, I am a scientist. I believe that there is a very real possibility that there is or has been life on other planets in our very own solar system. Whether that life rises to the complexity of being considered an "alien", in my opinion, is something that will either be proven or disproved within the next 20 years. Science is a discipline that is incredibly exciting in the times we live know. The available and potential technology is allowing us to make scientific advances that couldn't have been imagined 25 years ago.

[Rogue]

I am an alien.

[marini martini]

I believe I'll have another drink.:toast

[baseline bum]

Not picking a fight here, but where do you think all of this came from, or do you not worry about it, and figure we'll figure it out when we figure it out?

I do not know where we came from, and I believe presupposing the answer defeats efforts to search for it. I don't even know if the question is answerable. If the big bang theory is correct, it is the beginning of the universe only because we can't know of anything that be conceived of as before it.

I'm extremely distrustful of religion because it often tells people to suppress their skepticism and to believe things that would be dismissed easily as nonsense from any other source. Not that everything has to agree with intuition to be true: clearly, most people wouldn't believe you see something going at one speed, chase it, and still see it going the same speed when the object you chase thinks it hasn't sped up. It sounds like nonsense; I chase a car going 100 when I'm going 95, and he escapes away from me pretty slowly; he doesn't zoom away unless he can go into a higher gear and really jam on the accelerator. However, there is irrefutable evidence this is true for light. Michelson showed on our planet orbiting the sun at 30 km/second we always get light from the sun going at a constant speed. If we measure the speed at different times of the year, then we are clearly at different parts of the orbit and thus moving in different directions (and thus with a different velocity relative to the sun), and yet the light always goes speed c when we measure it here. That's extremely compelling evidence pointing directly to the measured speed of light being independent of the movement of the observer.

For me to believe in something as non-intuitive as the supernatural, there has to be that same level of compelling evidence that points in only one direction. If I can believe in something that leaves no evidence or trace of its existence, then I might as well believe anything.

[phyzik]

I agree with most of what you are saying. By faith in Jesus Christ,I am a christian yet by education, I am a scientist. I believe that their is a very real possibility that there is or has been life on other planets in our very own solar system. Whether that life rises to the complexity of being considered an "alien", in my opinion, is something that will either be proven or disproved within the next 20 years. Science is a discipline that is incredibly exciting in the times we live know. The available and potential technology is allowing us to make scientific advances that couldn't have been imagined 25 years ago.

Just curious what your thoughts are on the Drake equation. Even if you put in the most miniscule numbers in that equation there is still a mathmatical probability that there is other forms of intelligent life out there. Im not saying its the correct equation, but still, its the best we got.

In my opinion to think that we are the only advanced lifeform, especially the most advanced, is just plain arrogance on the level of people who think humans are the "chosen" of whatever higher power may or may not be out there. We might as well go back to thinking the Earth is the center of the universe.

So I dont come across as a thread-jacker:

God, in the sense of current religious beliefs, doesnt exist.

Magic is a fraud and those that believe in it are simple minded. Yes, Im talking about the David Blaines and the supposed wanna-be Merlins who think they can cast spells. That includes Voodoo.

Ghost, well ghost hunters is an interesting show, I'd like to believe but I doubt it at this time.

Aliens, as far as visiting the planet, its hard to dispute hundreds of thousands of eye witnesses but I doubt the government has some type of MIB that communicate with them. As far as life on other planets just as intelligent and advanced as we are, I have no doubt there is at least 1 other alien race such as ours.

reincarnation is a sham to help people cope with death.

government conspiracies are just that, conspiracies. sure they hide shit and its been proven even with the Right of information act, but I doubt they orcastrated 9/11 or some other crap. As far as roswell, I am borderline on that and I've studied it quite a bit. My brother is military and was stationed at Fort Hood where the supposed bodies where taken and he says there is a few buildings where super high level access is required.... who knows?

Karma is a bitch and I've witnessed it first hand on many occasions but most of those have been me ministering the after effect. Weather its a force or not, I cannot say. The only thing I know is if you wrong me or others, at some point payback will occur, weather its in direct relation to the "wronging" thats still up for debate.

[baseline bum]

Developed alien life forms making contact with us is a whole other bag of worms, because of the limiting speed of light in our universe. To make physical contact, they would have to be capable of 1 of the following:

1) Breed and sustain life through many generations on their transport device to Earth
2) Break the limitation of the speed of light for travel
3) live for insanely long time periods necessary to make the trip over distances on the scale of light-years

... along with having a way to generate the massive amount of kinetic energy needed to first propel the transport device at speeds of even modest fractions of the speed of light.

In cases 1) and 3), there would have to either be a way to compress their energy source (i.e., food) into small quantities (in both length,width, and mass) or a way to convert energy from passing stars into something to help them sustain life. Case 2 would require them to perhaps fold the universe on itself, which begs the question of where they got that kind of gravitational force without creating black holes that would have annihilated them. Wormholes don't see all that fruitful a way to break the speed of light barrier.

None of these options seem at all likely. The only other option is that we have an extremely limited knowledge of physics and that we're missing something major in the big picture. There is seemingly a good chance of that being true, but accepting that makes anything derived from it pure speculation that could go anywhere.

[Blake]

Yes- to God and ghosts (if by ghosts you mean spirits and not Caspar)


I pretty much mean Casper, Ebeneezer Scrooge's ghosts, Ghostbuster ghoats and any other souls that are stuck here on Earth instead of in hell or heaven.

[Blake]

I loved this description and I also think it describes Angel Luv's faith to a tee. She is a walking/talking human reminder of how a true deep faith can guide you in all areas of your life. I think I have a pretty strong faith but I know it pales in comparison to the level of faith that she demonstrates on a daily basis. You have to admire that!:toast


some call it a strong faith, others might call it a teenager's lack of willingness to answer a bunch of critical questions.

[Blake]

Developed alien life forms making contact with us is a whole other bag of worms, because of the limiting speed of light in our universe. To make physical contact, they would have to be capable of 1 of the following:

1) Breed and sustain life through many generations on their transport device to Earth
2) Break the limitation of the speed of light for travel
3) live for insanely long time periods necessary to make the trip over distances on the scale of light-years

... along with having a way to generate the massive amount of kinetic energy needed to first propel the transport device at speeds of even modest fractions of the speed of light.

In cases 1) and 3), there would have to either be a way to compress their energy source (i.e., food) into small quantities (in both length,width, and mass) or a way to convert energy from passing stars into something to help them sustain life. Case 2 would require them to perhaps fold the universe on itself, which begs the question of where they got that kind of gravitational force without creating black holes that would have annihilated them. Wormholes don't see all that fruitful a way to break the speed of light barrier.

None of these options seem at all likely. The only other option is that we have an extremely limited knowledge of physics and that we're missing something major in the big picture. There is seemingly a good chance of that being true, but accepting that makes anything derived from it pure speculation that could go anywhere.

there's that....

and also based on what we know (which may be limited), the planets at which might sustain life are few and far between. I haven't checked lately, but I think we have maybe found one or two that might fall in the right zone that make it plausible....

and just because a planet can sustain life doesn't mean that it automatically will produce life.......much less multi-celled organisms, much less highly advanced creatures, much less intelligent creatures, much less creatures capable of finding other intelligent creatures in the universe, much less travelling to meet them...

.....even in this vast cosmos.

[Blake]

In my opinion to think that we are the only advanced lifeform, especially the most advanced, is just plain arrogance on the level of people who think humans are the "chosen" of whatever higher power may or may not be out there. We might as well go back to thinking the Earth is the center of the universe.

So I dont come across as a thread-jacker:

God, in the sense of current religious beliefs, doesnt exist.

Magic is a fraud and those that believe in it are simple minded. Yes, Im talking about the David Blaines and the supposed wanna-be Merlins who think they can cast spells. That includes Voodoo.

Ghost, well ghost hunters is an interesting show, I'd like to believe but I doubt it at this time.

Aliens, as far as visiting the planet, its hard to dispute hundreds of thousands of eye witnesses but I doubt the government has some type of MIB that communicate with them. As far as life on other planets just as intelligent and advanced as we are, I have no doubt there is at least 1 other alien race such as ours.

reincarnation is a sham to help people cope with death.

government conspiracies are just that, conspiracies. sure they hide shit and its been proven even with the Right of information act, but I doubt they orcastrated 9/11 or some other crap. As far as roswell, I am borderline on that and I've studied it quite a bit. My brother is military and was stationed at Fort Hood where the supposed bodies where taken and he says there is a few buildings where super high level access is required.... who knows?

Karma is a bitch and I've witnessed it first hand on many occasions but most of those have been me ministering the after effect. Weather its a force or not, I cannot say. The only thing I know is if you wrong me or others, at some point payback will occur, weather its in direct relation to the "wronging" thats still up for debate.


On my own Blake Equation, I find it hard to believe that intelligent aliens can exist without some kind of intelligent design.

Whoops. I guess that was a bit arrogant on my part.

[Blake]

We're talking about hypothetical aliens here. :rolleyes

If you really thing I'm going to get my panties in a wad about this then you found the wrong person to discuss this with.

If you think I care how far up your crack your panties go, you are in the wrong thread to begin with.

[angel_luv]

My question would be at what point in her faith does it become enough a part of her that she can explain what she believes in her own words, as opposed to quoting words written by someone else. This thread is an inquiry as to what each person believes, and I would expect an answer more personal, whereby some people are willing to examine themselves and to express their personal beliefs in their own statements. In some ways simply quoting scripture is a cop-out because the person is "hiding" behind some statements that he or she believes can not be challenged. To express yourself in your own way and in your own words requires a willingness to put yourself out there and have your notions and ideas examined and possibly critiqued by others. Sorry, but I do not admire it as some have posted because I think it is lazy contemplation not even to attempt your own expression of faith.



Because you have always been nice to me, I am going to explain my reasoning to you.

When Jesus was in the desert and was tempted by Satan, Jesus responded to each of Satan's attacks/ accusations/ temptations with Scripture. ( Matthew 4)
I have chosen to follow Jesus' example in this.

[Rockhound]

I believe in reincarnation of the soul.

I don't care any about organized religion, but I know there is more to all this than just 80 years of existence.

Mankind still knows very little. I believe at the very least, religion/spirituality is used as a tool for the mind to dive deeper into things. It shapes ones conscious, strengthens your resolve, and can set up a solid set of values/morals that will help you grow in life.


Two sayings I live by which I have observed to be the real deal:
Life is about the journey, not the destination.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

[Blake]

Because you have always been nice to me, I am going to explain my reasoning to you.

When Jesus was in the desert and was tempted by Satan, Jesus responded to each of Satan's attacks/ accusations/ temptations with Scripture. ( Matthew 4)
I have chosen to follow Jesus' example in this.

what does the Scripture say about pre-destination?

what does it say about the after life for primitive tribes in Australia?

don't worry, I'll answer for you

"I know that God is the Supreme Being in the Universe and he knows all of our hearts and he will take care of it and I don't need to worry about it

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding."

[Blake]

I believe in reincarnation of the soul.

I don't care any about organized religion, but I know there is more to all this than just 80 years of existence.

Mankind still knows very little. I believe at the very least, religion/spirituality is used as a tool for the mind to dive deeper into things. It shapes ones conscious, strengthens your resolve, and can set up a solid set of values/morals that will help you grow in life.


Two sayings I live by which I have observed to be the real deal:
Life is about the journey, not the destination.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

so you believe in God?

[balli]

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding."
Good f'ing post. Proverbs fucking sucks. A guide to turning yourself into a zombie. On the other hand, the psalms, that's some good shit.

[Winehole23]

1. God(s) - yes, the flying spaghetti monster. All Hail the One True God. RAmen.It's been the jaunty hipster fashion for quite some time, to take a joke religion instead of an honest creed.

All hail Bob (http://www.subgenius.com/)!

[angel_luv]

what does the Scripture say about pre-destination?

what does it say about the after life for primitive tribes in Australia?

don't worry, I'll answer for you

"I know that God is the Supreme Being in the Universe and he knows all of our hearts and he will take care of it and I don't need to worry about it

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding."

I believe pre-destination means not that God excludes people from salvation by only picking some, but rather that He specifically created each human life for a divine purpose and eternal friendship with him.

It is similar to how parents hope their kids always remain close to them, not just as infants and kids but as adults also.

Acts 2:21- "And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

As for the primitive tribes in Australia...


Matthew 12:14-18- " What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost."

And
Romans 1:19-20- " Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."

[Winehole23]

1. God(s) -Yes.
2. magic (not from God or copperfield) -I believe in dreckeffekt.
3. ghosts - agnostic
4. alien -agnostic
5. reincarnation - Resurrection, yes; reincarnation, no.
6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc-They're gonna get me!
7. karma - See Angel_Luv's response. It means exactly the same thing.

[Blake]

I believe pre-destination means not that God excludes people from salvation by only picking some, but rather that He specifically created each human life for a divine purpose and eternal friendship with him.

It is similar to how parents hope their kids always remain close to them, not just as infants and kids but as adults also.

No, it's not similiar.

Parents have no idea how their kids will turn out.

God in His infinite knowledge knows exactly how each person, including Satan would turn out.

Yet in His infinite love, He created them anyway, knowing that they were doomed to spend eternity in Hell.


Acts 2:21- "And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

As for the primitive tribes in Australia...


Matthew 12:14-18- " What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost."

And
Romans 1:19-20- " Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."

Not one mention of Jesus, here so I will go ahead and conclude that it is your belief that believing in Jesus is an unnecessary part of the salvation equation.

So in that case, who cares if He was the Son of God or just another good guy? It means nothing.

[angel_luv]

Not one mention of Jesus, here so I will go ahead and conclude that it is your belief that believing in Jesus is an unnecessary part of the salvation equation.

So in that case, who cares if He was the Son of God or just another good guy? It means nothing.

Here is the verse in full context.



Acts 2: 14-41-
"Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning!
No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
" 'In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
I will show wonders in the heaven above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.'
"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.
This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.
But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.
David said about him:
" 'I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will live in hope,
because you will not abandon me to the grave,
nor will you let your Holy One see decay.
You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.'

"Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day.

But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.

Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay.

God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.

Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.
For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet." '

"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."

With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation."
Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day."

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

There's an old joke. Um, two elderly women are at a Catskill Mountain resort. And one of 'em says: 'Boy, the food in this place is really terrible.' The other one says: 'Yeah, I know. And such small portions.' Well, that's essentially how I feel about life. Full of loneliness and misery and suffering and unhappiness, and it's all over much too quickly...

[Blake]

Here is the verse in full context.



Acts 2: 14-41-
"Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning!
No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
" 'In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
I will show wonders in the heaven above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.'
"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.
This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.
But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.
David said about him:
" 'I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will live in hope,
because you will not abandon me to the grave,
nor will you let your Holy One see decay.
You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.'

"Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day.

But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.

Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay.

God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.

Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.
For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet." '

"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."

With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation."
Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day."

Still doesn't answer the question if Jesus is a necessary component of salvation.

I'm guessing that Jews just have a different suburb of Heaven than the Christians.

[angel_luv]

No, it's not similiar.

Parents have no idea how their kids will turn out.

God in His infinite knowledge knows exactly how each person, including Satan would turn out.

Yet in His infinite love, He created them anyway, knowing that they were doomed to spend eternity in Hell.

Jesus came and made the way for all to be saved. No person is doomed to hell.

God's love is so great that, though He could rightly compel everyone to serve him, he gives us all the free will to choose.

That said, we cannot fairly expect God, who in just and righteous as well as merciful, to suspend reality in order to cater to us.
There is a correct order to things and that order must be followed.

For example, I could have a large inheritance set aside for me, but unless I go through the process to accept the money, I will never receive it.

Should that happen, the fault would not lie with the relative who made the money available but with me for not doing my part to receive it.

[angel_luv]

Still doesn't answer the question if Jesus is a necessary component of salvation.

I'm guessing that Jews just have a different suburb of Heaven than the Christians.


Acts 4: 8-13-

"Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: "Rulers and elders of the people! If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed, then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.

He is " 'the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus."

[E20]

To think this planet that has only been here 4.5 billion years is the only place complex life can form is equivalent to completely dismissing evolution as an explanation for our existence. There is water all over, there are heavy metals, there are countless sun-like stars, and so on in the known universe. To think it could only happen here would immediately point to intelligent design.

I do not follow ID, I have my own little idea. :lol


But for 'complex life', how would you define it? Complex life as in a highly advanced cephalic regions and circulatory systems? Or complex as in the ability to think and be self-aware? Because I am not ruling out organisms which are complex anatomically(sp), but as far as being able to express ideas, emotions, and awarenss, such as us, in my opnion, the chances of that are slim, but even still I am not saying there IS no such possibility, just I wouldn't bet on it.

[Blake]

Acts 4: 8-13-

"Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: "Rulers and elders of the people! If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed, then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.

He is " 'the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus."

still doesnt answer the question but how bout this....

since God gave you free will, how bout you say in your own words what you believe........verse free.

[baseline bum]

I do not follow ID, I have my own little idea. :lol


But for 'complex life', how would you define it? Complex life as in a highly advanced cephalic regions and circulatory systems? Or complex as in the ability to think and be self-aware? Because I am not ruling out organisms which are complex anatomically(sp), but as far as being able to express ideas, emotions, and awarenss, such as us, in my opnion, the chances of that are slim, but even still I am not saying there IS no such possibility, just I wouldn't bet on it.

OK, I'll define it is large beings with the capability to think in abstract terms. Something as complex as the creation of human life that cannot be duplicated even when the experiment is done billions of billions of times is almost a textbook definition of a miracle (just add God and there you go). Your statement seems to shade the probabilities heavily on the side of ID.

[E20]

OK, I'll define it is large beings with the capability to think in abstract terms. Something as complex as the creation of human life that cannot be duplicated even when the experiment is done billions of billions of times is almost a textbook definition of a miracle (just add God and there you go). Your statement seems to shade the probabilities heavily on the side of ID.
I never said cannot be duplicated, I did say unlikely. But who knows? Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. Right now I'm trying to worry about my bank account god dammit only 11 dollars in it.

[baseline bum]

I never said cannot be duplicated, I did say unlikely. But who knows? Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. Right now I'm trying to worry about my bank account god dammit only 11 dollars in it.

You shade the probabilities of it never being repeated pretty close to 1.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

spinning off the other thread, which of these do you believe in?

1. God(s)
2. magic (not from God or copperfield)
3. ghosts
4. aliens
5. reincarnation
6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc
7. karma

Why "govt conspiracies" and not also "corporate conspiracies"? There have been plenty of the latter (eg. ENRON, rorts in Iraq, etc.).

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

By random chance and evolution I do not think it is possible for another planet to have such a highly advanced array of species at hand. Also, by being a biology major and studying major concepts of how complex organisms at a high level can be I just don't think that by chance there could be organisms as advanced as us. I have also had discussions with my science Professors regarding this topic and they also think that it is highly improbable that through Darwinian and Macro-evolution that there can arise a species on the same tier as us.

That's the way I see or think it. If by some means we are contacted by an advanced being from outer space then I am wrong, but in my opinion simple/microscopic organisms or even some simple quadrupeds exist.

1) evolved life not possible, out of an effectively infinite number of suitable planets in the universe? Why?

2) "major concepts blah blah blah" - you mean evolution by natural selection, or are you talking about ID?

3) I think you are misconstruing what your professors have said, or they are not very good "professors". Were they referring to another sentient species ON THIS PLANET, because that would make sense. Where are you studying?


I do not follow ID, I have my own little idea.

Please share.

[tlongII]

If we don't destroy ourselves first, mankind will eventually become God.

[smeagol]

I never said it wasn't impressive. I just pointed out that she constantly references something thats of little value. The oldest known bible (if I remember correctly) is from around the 4th Century.

There are quasi complete versions from the 2nd century

[smeagol]

I was just browsing some blurbs on the oldest know bible. Inconsistancies never cease to amaze me.

The Codex - and other early manuscripts - do not mention the ascension of Jesus into heaven, and omit key references to the Resurrection, which the Archbishop of Canterbury has said is essential for Christian belief.

Other differences concern how Jesus behaved. In one passage of the Codex, Jesus is said to be “angry” as he healed a leper, whereas the modern text records him as healing with “compassion”.

Also missing is the story of the woman taken in adultery and about to be stoned - until Jesus rebuked the Pharisees (a Jewish sect), inviting anyone without sin to cast the first stone.

Nor are there words of forgiveness from the cross. Jesus does not say “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”.


......and you guys think you're reading the words of Jesus verbatim.

What is the Codex?

Put some more effort in your posts, please.

[tlongII]

What is the Codex?

Put some more effort in your posts, please.

http://www.codex-sinaiticus.net/en/codex/default.aspx

Codex Sinaiticus, a manuscript of the Christian Bible written in the middle of the fourth century, contains the earliest complete copy of the Christian New Testament. The hand-written text is in Greek. The New Testament appears in the original vernacular language (koine) and the Old Testament in the version, known as the Septuagint, that was adopted by early Greek-speaking Christians. In the Codex, the text of both the Septuagint and the New Testament has been heavily annotated by a series of early correctors.

The significance of Codex Sinaiticus for the reconstruction of the Christian Bible's original text, the history of the Bible and the history of Western book-making is immense.

[E20]

1) evolved life not possible, out of an effectively infinite number of suitable planets in the universe? Why?

2) "major concepts blah blah blah" - you mean evolution by natural selection, or are you talking about ID?

3) I think you are misconstruing what your professors have said, or they are not very good "professors". Were they referring to another sentient species ON THIS PLANET, because that would make sense. Where are you studying?



Please share.
1. What are the chances? I think they are slim and that's why it won't happen, I'm not ruling out the possibility like I've mentioned above. Evolved life? I said evolved life is possible, but a humaniod species like us I think is unlikely.

2. By Major concepts I mean the complexity of gene sequences, the complexity of major biological systems of advanced organisms that have evolved. It took a while for the very first organisms to evolve and have the luck of not dying out to eventually produce such complex systems.

3. Statiscially speaking the odds of another planet to produce such a diverse and advanced array of species like Earth's is unlikely.



Please share.
IMO It's too long to write, but I think Adam or the first Homo Sapien was black. LOL It would sound far fetched to somebody other than me, but it makes sense to me.

[Blake]

Why "govt conspiracies" and not also "corporate conspiracies"? There have been plenty of the latter (eg. ENRON, rorts in Iraq, etc.).

feel free to add.

although I thought the ENRON "conspiracy" was fact.

[Blake]

If we don't destroy ourselves first, mankind will eventually become God.

maybe we then create life on another planet and watch it from a distance

[Darrin]

1. God(s)--No Gods, just celebrities.
2. Magic (not from God or copperfield)--Don't believe that we have magic. Nothing exists outside of the laws of this universe that we can grasp more than conceptually.
3. Ghosts--Don't believe in them.
4. AliensThey are out there, but if we are willing to see life as it exists somewhere else is another story. Why would life only exist on this rock? How inclusive the race is also concerns me.
5. Reincarnation Not possible.
6. Government Conspiracies--I'd rather believe that the government knew about 9/11 than the intelligence community was caught sleeping on the terrorist network; call me an arrogant American. Kennedy was killed by mobsters while low-energy buibs and tagless underwear have always been possible. :lol
7. Karma--I don't believe in it. What we put into life is what we have. Talent is what leaps us forward. Realizing opportunity is a matter of life experience and the brain. Bad things can happen even if we are diligent, earnest, and compassionate. No one judges us at the end of the day. It is simply up to the person to want to be just. Our test is our own.

[ploto]

When Jesus was in the desert and was tempted by Satan, Jesus responded to each of Satan's attacks/ accusations/ temptations with Scripture. ( Matthew 4)

I have chosen to follow Jesus' example in this.

But no one was attacking, accusing or tempting you. They were asking what you believe.

[ploto]

For example, I could have a large inheritance set aside for me, but unless I go through the process to accept the money, I will never receive it.

Should that happen, the fault would not lie with the relative who made the money available but with me for not doing my part to receive it.

What if you never even heard about said inheritance?

[smeagol]

http://www.codex-sinaiticus.net/en/codex/default.aspx

Codex Sinaiticus, a manuscript of the Christian Bible written in the middle of the fourth century, contains the earliest complete copy of the Christian New Testament. The hand-written text is in Greek. The New Testament appears in the original vernacular language (koine) and the Old Testament in the version, known as the Septuagint, that was adopted by early Greek-speaking Christians. In the Codex, the text of both the Septuagint and the New Testament has been heavily annotated by a series of early correctors.

The significance of Codex Sinaiticus for the reconstruction of the Christian Bible's original text, the history of the Bible and the history of Western book-making is immense.

There are a number of Codex from the 4th C. He never made the distinction, hence my question.

Codex Vaticanus is older than Codex Sinaictus, for example.

Another very old codex is Codex Alexandrinus, possibly from the early 5th C.

[baseline bum]

1. What are the chances? I think they are slim and that's why it won't happen, I'm not ruling out the possibility like I've mentioned above. Evolved life? I said evolved life is possible, but a humaniod species like us I think is unlikely.

2. By Major concepts I mean the complexity of gene sequences, the complexity of major biological systems of advanced organisms that have evolved. It took a while for the very first organisms to evolve and have the luck of not dying out to eventually produce such complex systems.

3. Statiscially speaking the odds of another planet to produce such a diverse and advanced array of species like Earth's is unlikely.



IMO It's too long to write, but I think Adam or the first Homo Sapien was black. LOL It would sound far fetched to somebody other than me, but it makes sense to me.

You seem to characterize natural selection as a random process; a roll of the dice. That equates the theory of evolution to nihilism, which makes it a far less believable theory than intelligent design; this world is clearly not all chaos that blindly random processes would have it devolve into. Calling natural selection random just because individual mutations are random is like saying if I'm shooting pool, I might as well not even aim; where the struck ball goes is random, since the movement of every electron (that gives the repulsion force to transfer momentum) in each ball is random. If I sit down and play poker with Manny, the cards we'll be dealt is random, but the outcome that Manny will take every penny from me if I don't come to my senses and quit early is almost certain.

[E20]

You seem to characterize natural selection as a random process; a roll of the dice. That equates the theory of evolution to nihilism, which makes it a far less believable theory than intelligent design. This world is clearly not all chaos that blindly random processes would have it devolve into. Calling natural selection random just because individual mutations are random is like saying if I'm shooting pool, I might as well not even aim; where the struck ball goes is random, since the movement of every electron (that gives the repulsion force to transfer momentum) in each ball is random. If I sit down and play poker with Manny, the cards we'll be dealt is random, but the outcome that Manny will take every penny from me if I don't come to my senses and quit early is almost certain.
I don't attribute randomness to evolution or natural selection, but I attribute a chance or probability of the offspring to flourish in there enviornment and pass on the genes that favor their survival. For example what are your chances of surviving in the Sahara Desert, if you are not naturally adapted to the enviornment? And even if you are there is still the chance of not finding adequate food or shelter, and being attacked which factors in if you survive or not.

[baseline bum]

I don't attribute randomness to evolution or natural selection, but I attribute a chance or probability of the offspring to flourish in there enviornment and pass on the genes that favor their survival. For example what are your chances of surviving in the Sahara Desert, if you are not naturally adapted to the enviornment? And even if you are there is still the chance of not finding adequate food or shelter, and being attacked which factors in if you survive or not.

If I'm there on my own, not very good. But clearly things have adapted to survive in harsh deserts. In the last few posts, are you making an argument that there are/were likely no other Earth-like systems in the universe?

[Blake]

What if you never even heard about said inheritance?

won't matter.

Not only will you still be at fault for not taking the money, but you will be thrown in a lake of burning fire for not taking it.

[E20]

If I'm there on my own, not very good. But clearly things have adapted to survive in harsh deserts. In the last few posts, are you making an argument that there are/were likely no other Earth-like systems in the universe?
Not that, but it took billions of years of successful adaptations and evolution to bring about humans. A lot of things had to go in order for life to survive to produce the species that are present today and Earth's climate and enviornment were a big plus towards that. Also, I am not saying that there are not other planets that are similar to Earth, I've read that there are many Earth like plants that orbit Stars similar to the Sun, but what I am skeptic about is that if these planets have had the same success of producing speices on Earth's level, however, I am not saying for a definitive fact that there isn't intelligent life, because for all we know at the end of the Universe there could be somebody having the exact same discussion we are. My expectations for life on other planets are towards microbes, single/multi-cellular organisms, aquatic life, insects, and animals on the level of Marsupials, anything capable of thought and expression would be breathtaking and an enormus find/discovery.

[Blake]

IMO It's too long to write, but I think Adam or the first Homo Sapien was black. LOL It would sound far fetched to somebody other than me, but it makes sense to me.

well, Adam may be black, but at least I can rest at night knowing that Jesus was a handsome white, wavy haired, blue-eyed man.

[Blake]

Not that, but it took billions of years of successful adaptations and evolution to bring about humans. A lot of things had to go in order for life to survive to produce the species that are present today and Earth's climate and enviornment were a big plus towards that. Also, I am not saying that there are not other planets that are similar to Earth, I've read that there are many Earth like plants that orbit Stars similar to the Sun, but what I am skeptic about is that if these planets have had the same success of producing speices on Earth's level, however, I am not saying for a definitive fact that there isn't intelligent life, because for all we know at the end of the Universe there could be somebody having the exact same discussion we are. My expectations for life on other planets are towards microbes, single/multi-cellular organisms, aquatic life, insects, and animals on the level of Marsupials, anything capable of thought and expression would be breathtaking and an enormus find/discovery.

for all practical purposes, a +1 for me

[leemajors]

I talk in the general direction of the Author of my Faith on a daily basis.

[baseline bum]

Not that, but it took billions of years of successful adaptations and evolution to bring about humans. A lot of things had to go in order for life to survive to produce the species that are present today and Earth's climate and enviornment were a big plus towards that. Also, I am not saying that there are not other planets that are similar to Earth, I've read that there are many Earth like plants that orbit Stars similar to the Sun, but what I am skeptic about is that if these planets have had the same success of producing speices on Earth's level, however, I am not saying for a definitive fact that there isn't intelligent life, because for all we know at the end of the Universe there could be somebody having the exact same discussion we are. My expectations for life on other planets are towards microbes, single/multi-cellular organisms, aquatic life, insects, and animals on the level of Marsupials, anything capable of thought and expression would be breathtaking and an enormus find/discovery.

There's evidence that a lot of things have gone wrong on this planet too that have destroyed complex life and made evolution start over from simple organisms; the Earth being a huge ball of ice a billion years ago, the various times the planet has had enormous chains of volcanoes erupting at the same time, the asteroid that hit the Yucatan 65 million years ago, and so on. Yet, very complex life-forms keep coming back over and over again due to natural selection being an efficient process that rewards mutations beneficial to survival. Once any kind of life appears, natural selection can take over. If it can take over in an environment similar to Earth and there are many bodies similar to earth in our universe, then it seems highly likely it will have somewhere created life forms and diversity on the order of complexity we see here.

I'm not trying to argue life on our magnitude of complexity (or even on the level of single-cell organisms) is all that probable in any local part of the universe, but the number of stars, planets, etc. in the universe is so great that probability really wouldn't favor our universe being devoid of life forms as complex as us anywhere else. Let's say the probability of no complex life form existing in some small packet of stars is almost certain... i.e., near, but always bounded by some number x < 1.0 (x can be arbitrarily close). Let us assume independence (seemingly roughly true, as we get our energy from the core of the planet and from the sun, not from xrays from distant binaries or light from Alpha Centauri). Then the probability of no life form on our scale of complexity existing outside of Earth is the product of those terms, which will converge to zero as the number of packets of stars gets large (|x|<1 implies x^n -> 0). There are some holes in this sloppy argument, namely what if the probability of the packets of stars having no complex life satisfies a limit converging to 1 (and therefore, the probability for the packets cannot be bounded by any x<1).

I guess my main argument is that n is pretty large (n=number of small packets of stars).

[Blake]

I know that n is pretty dang large, but I still can't help but feel the odds are still too great for there to be other intelligent life out there on our same level.

If there was just one other planet out there with intelligent life that we knew about, then I would think odds jump fantastically exponentially that there is intelligent life on more than 2 planets.

Heck, if there was more than just humans on this planet alone that were highly intelligent, I might tend to lean more towards there being intelligent life on other planets.

My next question is what is the source that sparked life into being? And just because a planet is capable of supporting life, does that mean the chances are high that sooner or later that life will pop up and thrive on it?

I know we are limited in our knowledge, but I can't get past a lot of that when it comes to odds and probabilities.

[baseline bum]

I know that n is pretty dang large, but I still can't help but feel the odds are still too great for there to be other intelligent life out there on our same level.

If there was just one other planet out there with intelligent life that we knew about, then I would think odds jump fantastically exponentially that there is intelligent life on more than 2 planets.

Heck, if there was more than just humans on this planet alone that were highly intelligent, I might tend to lean more towards there being intelligent life on other planets.



Unfortunately, evolution would most likely have to create life many orders of magnitude more complex than us for us to ever be contacted, due to the speed of light limitation I referenced in earlier posts.



My next question is what is the source that sparked life into being? And just because a planet is capable of supporting life, does that mean the chances are high that sooner or later that life will pop up and thrive on it?


I don't think so. Life coming from non-life has to be something incredibly rare. However, once it's there, natural selection should take out a lot of the randomness.

[E20]

Can't argue with that. :lol

[Blake]

I don't think so. Life coming from non-life has to be something incredibly rare. However, once it's there, natural selection should take out a lot of the randomness.

I concur.

[tlongII]

I don't think there's any question that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. What you need to keep in mind is that we don't possess the technology to discover extra-terrestrial life yet. We're barely able to check out are neighboring planets at this time. The way we have discovered other planetary systems is by observing irregularities in other stars movements. We aren't actually able to see the planet. One day our technology will advance so we can see what's out there, but I doubt it will be in my lifetime.

[Blake]

I don't think there's any question that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. What you need to keep in mind is that we don't possess the technology to discover extra-terrestrial life yet. We're barely able to check out are neighboring planets at this time. The way we have discovered other planetary systems is by observing irregularities in other stars movements. We aren't actually able to see the planet. One day our technology will advance so we can see what's out there, but I doubt it will be in my lifetime.

do you think that we've been visited?

[tlongII]

do you think that we've been visited?

It's possible, but I doubt it. The thing that makes me hesitate on that subject are things like carvings in the land in South America that you can only make out from the sky. Those things are ancient and I don't know why they are there.

[Blake]

It's possible, but I doubt it. The thing that makes me hesitate on that subject are things like carvings in the land in South America that you can only make out from the sky. Those things are ancient and I don't know why they are there.

you know, I haven't heard much from crop circle people lately......wondering if it's due to our increased ability to see and record every bit of the earth....

[angel_luv]

still doesnt answer the question but how bout this....

since God gave you free will, how bout you say in your own words what you believe........verse free.


First of all, I apologise for my late response. I am without internet at home and so have not been online since my last post.

Since you asked...

I believe Jesus is the one and only Savior of the world. I believe that it is by grace, through faith that we are saved. I believe that salvation requires both believing in your heart and confessing with your mouth.

I believe that all men only live and die once, so better get it right this lifetime.

I believe that life with Jesus, though not trouble free, is better than any alternative the world ever has or ever will offer.

I believe that no matter how crazy anyone finds my devotion to Jesus that there will come a day when EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord.

I believe that Jesus loves everyone and has so much faith that all of you will make the right decision- choose Him- that He is already building you each glorious mansions in Heaven.

I hope I live on the same Heavenly blocks as David Robinson, Bruce Bowen Malik Rose and Rasho.
Also, if Beno, Hedo, and Manu are not Christians yet, I hope they become Christian so I can live near them too.
Basketball block party! :)

And I really hope Avery Johnson's mansion is over the hill from mine. J/K! :lol

[Blake]

I believe Jesus is the one and only Savior of the world.

of the world or the entire universe.....in case there are intelligent aliens?


I believe that all men only live and die once, so better get it right this lifetime.

better get what right? my belief system? What makes your belief system more right than Phil Jackson's?


I believe that life with Jesus, though not trouble free, is better than any alternative the world ever has or ever will offer.

I believe sleeping in on Sunday mornings feels so much better than having to get up and get dressed to go listen to someone tell me that I will go to Hell if I don't believe that Jesus died on the cross...........right before the plate gets passed around.


I believe that no matter how crazy anyone finds my devotion to Jesus that there will come a day when EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord.

If I'm going to hell for eternity, why would I bow to the one sending me there?

......unless he forces me to bow.......which throws out free will......


I believe that Jesus loves everyone and has so much faith that all of you will make the right decision- choose Him- that He is already building you each glorious mansions in Heaven.

I hope I live on the same Heavenly blocks as David Robinson, Bruce Bowen Malik Rose and Rasho.
Also, if Beno, Hedo, and Manu are not Christians yet, I hope they become Christian so I can live near them too.
Basketball block party! :)

And I really hope Avery Johnson's mansion is over the hill from mine. J/K! :lol

right, because it would take an eternity to have to go to their mansion if they lived in another Heavenly zip code.....


ive got another question.......mostly about free will......

Christians feel that once they die and go to Heaven, that the urge to sin will be gone.

Is this your view too?

If so, then is free will suddenly gone?

[angel_luv]

of the world or the entire universe.....in case there are intelligent aliens?



better get what right? my belief system? What makes your belief system more right than Phil Jackson's?



I believe sleeping in on Sunday mornings feels so much better than having to get up and get dressed to go listen to someone tell me that I will go to Hell if I don't believe that Jesus died on the cross...........right before the plate gets passed around.



If I'm going to hell for eternity, why would I bow to the one sending me there?

......unless he forces me to bow.......which throws out free will......



right, because it would take an eternity to have to go to their mansion if they lived in another Heavenly zip code.....


ive got another question.......mostly about free will......

Christians feel that once they die and go to Heaven, that the urge to sin will be gone.

Is this your view too?

If so, then is free will suddenly gone?

I am beginning to wonder if I can ever answer a question to your satisfaction. :)

[jack sommerset]

I hope I live on the same Heavenly blocks as David Robinson, Bruce Bowen Malik Rose and Rasho.
Also, if Beno, Hedo, and Manu are not Christians yet, I hope they become Christian so I can live near them too.
Basketball block party! :)

That is weird.

[Blake]

I am beginning to wonder if I can ever answer a question to your satisfaction. :)



Don't worry about my "satisfaction". I'm not asking you these questions so that I can try to put down your intelligence or make fun of you or say you are wrong and I am right. I honestly enjoy good discussions/debates.

And even if you never type another word in this thread, it's a healthy exercise to question everything that's in front of you.


It's funny, I was talking to a buddy last night who said his mother in law got mad at him for voting for Obama because she was sure he was the anti-christ.........I immediately thought of you and a scary thought crossed my mind that apparently this sentiment is held by a whole lot more people than I realized.....

all people that aren't thinking for themselves.

[angel_luv]

Don't worry about my "satisfaction". I'm not asking you these questions so that I can try to put down your intelligence or make fun of you or say you are wrong and I am right. I honestly enjoy good discussions/debates.

It is an honor and a pleasure ( mostly :) ) to talk with you.



of the world or the entire universe.....in case there are intelligent aliens?


I don't think there is life outside of the earth. I know there are numerous galaxies but I believe earth is the only place- other than Heaven and Hell- that is occupied.




better get what right? my belief system? What makes your belief system more right than Phil Jackson's?]

Given my belief that there is only one true God, it must follow that anyone who suggest otherwise is in the wrong.

I can't believe both that Jesus is the only Savior and that Phil Jackson has within his own power the ability to find the way to Heaven.
If Jesus is the only way ( and I know He is) then there is no other way- no matter how popular and well travelled.






I believe sleeping in on Sunday mornings feels so much better than having to get up and get dressed to go listen to someone tell me that I will go to Hell if I don't believe that Jesus died on the cross...........right before the plate gets passed around.

That is your call.

If you would visit my church, I think you would find it to be uplifiting- one hundred percent different than the hellfire and damnation experiences you described.
Open invite. Anytime, you are welcome to come.



If I'm going to hell for eternity, why would I bow to the one sending me there?

......unless he forces me to bow.......which throws out free will......

Free will only applies to this lifetime. Once your body dies, your spirit goes on to live with whichever Father it has chosen- either God in Heaven or Satan in Hell.
By rejecting Jesus, you are automatically choosing Satan.
There are only those two choices, according to the Scriptures.



right, because it would take an eternity to have to go to their mansion if they lived in another Heavenly zip code.....

I made joke! :lol



ive got another question.......mostly about free will......

Christians feel that once they die and go to Heaven, that the urge to sin will be gone.

Is this your view too?

If so, then is free will suddenly gone?

I don't know exactly what Heaven is like- having never been there.
As for me, after waiting my whole life to meet Jesus, I can't imagine wanting to anywhere than in His presence, forever united with Him and all my Christian loved ones that are also there.

[baseline bum]

It's possible, but I doubt it. The thing that makes me hesitate on that subject are things like carvings in the land in South America that you can only make out from the sky. Those things are ancient and I don't know why they are there.

Perhaps they made them for their gods in the sky to see.

[Blake]

Free will only applies to this lifetime.

really?

ok, try to follow me here....

if there is no more free will in Heaven, then how is it that Lucifer came to know sin?

on top of that, what is the point of free will to begin with if God is going to just take it away later? It's common knowledge that the whole point of God creating Man was to have a free thinking friend instead of a robot.

Why is our ultimate prize an eternal life living in a robotic state?.....in a mansion?

[angel_luv]

really?

ok, try to follow me here....

if there is no more free will in Heaven, then how is it that Lucifer came to know sin?

on top of that, what is the point of free will to begin with if God is going to just take it away later? It's common knowledge that the whole point of God creating Man was to have a free thinking friend instead of a robot.

Why is our ultimate prize an eternal life living in a robotic state?.....in a mansion?


Good questions.

I don't know the exact answers to any of them.

I can tell you though that I don't believe I will be in a robotic state in Heaven. I believe I will be fully aware and completely delighted in the presence of God, whom I have chosen and served.

[angel_luv]

If everything could be explained, faith would not be possible or necessary.

[ploto]

I believe Jesus is the one and only Savior of the world. I believe that it is by grace, through faith that we are saved. I believe that salvation requires both believing in your heart and confessing with your mouth.

So are you prepared to claim that only those who do these 2 specific things have salvation- even to the point of excluding any hope for those who have never even heard of Jesus?

[Winehole23]

if there is no more free will in Heaven, then how is it that Lucifer came to know sin?Ponam pedem in aquilonis et similis altissimo ero. -- Piers Plowman



118 Ponam pedem &c. An inexact quotation from Isaiah xiv 13 14 In coelum conscendam, super astra Dei exaltabo solium meum, sedebo in monte testamenti, in lateribus aquilonis. Ascendam super altitudinem nubium; similis ero Altissimo. It is curious that wherever the fall of Lucifer is mentioned as in most of the places cited in the note above there is mention also of Lucifer's sitting in the north. We find it even in Milton P.L. v.755-76o

At length into the limits of the north
They came; and Satan to his royal seat
. . . . . . . . . .
The palace of great Lucifer, &c.
So in Skelton's Colin Clout:

Some say ye sit in trones,
Like princes aquilonis
So in the Anglo Saxon Version of the Hexameron of St Basil ed Norman 1849 P 6 which agrees closely with Isaiah In Chaucer's Freres Tale 115 the fiend lives in the north centre. In Text C of Piers Plowman William inquires why Lucifer chose the north side but fears he shall offend Northern men if he says much about it. Yet he hints that the north is the place for cold and discomfort and suitable enough for the fallen angel In the Icelandic Gylfaginning we find ni(thorn)r ok nor(thorn)r liggr Helvegr, i.e., 'downwards and northwards lieth the way to Hell.'

[Homeland Security]

Ponam pedem in aquilonis et similis altissimo ero. -- Piers Plowman
Satan is the common ancestor of all white people.

[tlongII]

Perhaps they made them for their gods in the sky to see.

Maybe. I wonder how they did it though? It's bizarre to me.

http://z.about.com/d/gosouthamerica/1/0/B/C/1/17913796Nazcaspider.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/gosouthamerica/1/5/A/C/1/17913791Nazcadog.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/gosouthamerica/1/0/9/C/1/17911550Nazcamonkey.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/gosouthamerica/1/0/-/C/1/2193554.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/gosouthamerica/1/0/5/C/1/zen_0572d075Nazca.jpg

[tlongII]

Forgot about this one that some have speculated could represent an alien astronaut...

http://z.about.com/d/gosouthamerica/1/0/z/B/1/2193544.jpg

[Blake]

Maybe. I wonder how they did it though? It's bizarre to me.

http://z.about.com/d/gosouthamerica/1/0/B/C/1/17913796Nazcaspider.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/gosouthamerica/1/5/A/C/1/17913791Nazcadog.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/gosouthamerica/1/0/9/C/1/17911550Nazcamonkey.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/gosouthamerica/1/0/-/C/1/2193554.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/gosouthamerica/1/0/5/C/1/zen_0572d075Nazca.jpg


I'm thinking that aliens that are capable of traveling millions of light years to another planet would be capable of more than a few crude drawings of Earth creatures.

That 4th pic looks like they are giving the aliens the middle finger

[tlongII]

I'm thinking that aliens that are capable of traveling millions of light years to another planet would be capable of more than a few crude drawings of Earth creatures.

That 4th pic looks like they are giving the aliens the middle finger

Actually the 4th picture is a hummingbird. And I don't think aliens drew the pictures. I just thought it was possible that aliens inspired them. I doubt it though. They're probably just for their gods to see.

[JoeChalupa]

I've always found those drawings fascinating.

[Blake]

And I don't think aliens drew the pictures. I just thought it was possible that aliens inspired them.

aliens inspired them to draw giant pictures of other earth creatures?

I doubt it too.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Perhaps they made them for their gods in the sky to see.

Makes sense.