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MannyIsGod
02-27-2005, 05:04 PM
Equity not enough in Edgewood

Web Posted: 02/27/2005 12:00 AM CST

Mc Nelly Torres
Express-News Staff Writer

Every time a new superintendent is hired to lead the Edgewood School District, Mary Lee Reyna makes a lunch date.

More coverage
Spreadsheet: Area school district expenditures
Slide show: Edgewood is Shrinking

The retired Edgewood teacher and longtime resident is a player in this tightknit community, and the gesture is a chance to get acquainted.

Since 1992, Reyna has laid down the law for four superintendents — Dolores Muñoz (lasted 8 years), Noe Sauceda (lasted 9 months), Luis Gonzalez (gone after 21/2 years) and Richard Bocanegra, who took over in 2003.

Edgewood, Reyna says, is like an extended familia. Its 16 square miles contain few secrets, and residents treat outsiders with a skeptical eye.

"I told both Sauceda and Gonzalez, don't underestimate the power of the people of Edgewood," Reyna says. "You don't come to Edgewood and to my house and tell me what's good for me."

That fighting spirit has made Edgewood ground zero for the ongoing debate over how to provide high-quality public education to Texas students, rich and poor.

The fight began in 1968, when 400 students at Edgewood High School marched to the administration office demanding better supplies and qualified teachers. That year, Edgewood parents filed Rodriguez vs. San Antonio (School District) in federal court, setting off decades of legal battles.

They turned to the courts again in 1984, scoring a victory when a Texas state judge ruled the school finance system unconstitutional.

The remedy legislators crafted — dubbed Robin Hood — requires 134 property-rich school districts, including Alamo Heights, to share their wealth with the rest of the state's districts, Edgewood among them.

The district's per-pupil spending last year was $7,891, compared with the state average of $9,948.

There's little doubt that Robin Hood has helped Edgewood. The district has seen a $700 million infusion of state money in the past decade, along with a healthy dose of federal money. Total revenue per student was $8,729 last year, compared with $4,315 in 1994, according to the Texas Education Agency.

The money brought progress in the 1990s; more certified teachers appeared in classrooms, new programs were implemented and schools upgraded.

But Edgewood continues to suffer from a divided board, near-constant changes in leadership, parent distrust and a host of problems common to historically poor schools.

As the overall population of the district has aged and dwindled, enrollment also has declined, setting off a round of controversial school closings and consolidations. Student performance, though improving, continues to lag.

Legislators are working to meet a court-mandated Oct. 1 deadline to once again design a better way to fund the state's poorest schools. As they debate, the San Antonio Express-News visits the district where it all began and asks: Can equity solve Edgewood's problems?

Progress slow
Bad news, no stranger to the Edgewood schools, remains in abundance.

Last year, the district's two high schools — Memorial and Kennedy — landed on the list of schools labeled "needs improvement," along with 15 other Bexar County schools in seven districts.

The federal government applies that label to schools that fail to make sufficient progress for two consecutive years as required by President Bush's public school overhaul.

Over the past decade, Edgewood's enrollment dipped from 14,547 to 12,617, a 13 percent decline that has translated into a loss of millions in state funding.
At the same time, school choice proponents have swooped in with voucher programs such as the CEO Foundation's Horizon program, created in 1998. The program targets the Edgewood district and so far has given 5,414 students up to $4,700 each to attend a private school at one time or another.

Last year, 94 percent of Edgewood students qualified for free or reduced lunch. The district's enrollment is 97 percent Hispanic.

"Many of my students don't have the luxury of being full-time students," said Daniel Piña, who teaches social studies and economics at his alma mater, Kennedy High School. "Many of them work to help their parents and others work because they are parents themselves."

Linda Bononcini, assistant superintendent of curriculum and instruction, echoes Piña's lament.

"In Edgewood, you can't just teach, you have to do so much more," she said. "Our students have developmental, financial and social challenges."

Improvement has come, but not overnight.

Last week, the Texas Education Agency notified Edgewood that it had won its appeal of the "needs improvement" designation. The victory removes Kennedy and Memorial from the list and from the risk of sanctions under the No Child Left Behind federal school reform law. Thirteen of the other 15 Bexar County districts on the list also won their appeals.

Ten years ago, 36 percent of Edgewood's 10th-graders could pass the math portion of the Texas Assessment of Academic Skills, while 57 percent of third-graders passed the reading and math portion of the test, according to the Texas Education Agency.

Last year, 41 percent of 10th-graders passed the math portion of the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills, the more rigorous required exam adopted two years ago. Eighty-one percent of third-graders passed both the math and reading portions of the test.

And after years of being rated "acceptable" — essentially, average — under the state's system, Edgewood won "recognized" status in 1999, second only to "exemplary" in the rankings.

Muñoz, the superintendent during that time, didn't stay around to enjoy her success. Bruised by fights with a newly elected school board majority, she left in 1999, waving goodbye to the two years left on her contract.

She took a job as superintendent of Point Isabel schools in Port Isabel, and now is retired.

"Muñoz had a vision and a plan," said Lucy Hall, a retired teacher and administrator.

Tina Morales, a former board member, said Muñoz's only weakness was that she was fair. "And politics, being the animal that it is, pushed her out."

Extended familia
Edgewood parents and educators say they have been betrayed too many times to trust outsiders. But Edgewood has betrayed itself, too. Turned inward, the district's fighting spirit has, at times, become corrosive.

In 2001, Sauceda shocked the community when he left after nine months. Luis Gonzalez's leadership style clashed with the board's majority and the union representing school workers such as janitors. He left in 2003 after 21/2 years.

"People come here with the attitude that they know what's best for us," said Demetrio Rodriguez, for whom the 1968 school equity lawsuit is named. "Every time we get a new superintendent, they bring their compadres. They really think that we are a bunch of Mexicans who don't know any better."

The near-constant leadership changes have hampered progress, even those who believe strongly in Edgewood's potential say.

"It was horrible," administrator Bononcini said of the revolving door of superintendents. "It is disheartening when they come and change the rules on us."

After Gonzalez's departure, trustees decided it was time for stability. A divided board selected Bocanegra — its first homegrown superintendent — to lead the district 38 years after he graduated from Edgewood High School.
"We needed someone who knew the district, but we also needed someone to unite the district," board President Ramiro Nava said.

That decision left some school board members bitter.

"I have nothing against Bocanegra," said Jesus Calvillo, who resigned in protest in 2003. "But you don't place a man who is a freshman in curanderísmo (witch-doctor medicine) to cure cancer."

That year, hoping to mend their turbulent relationships, trustees traveled 45 miles to the Flying L Guest Ranch, a Hill Country resort, where they spent three days with a facilitator named Mary Rauch.

The final bill was $8,449 — $2,699 for the meals, entertainment and lodging package in addition to the fee for a facilitator, according to a bill provided by the district.

The district paid Rauch, of Mary Rauch Communications, $5,750. Rauch, whose Web page describes her as a professional communicator who has taught communication skills, writing and public speaking for 22 years, was hired two months later to conduct a team-building session for the superintendent's cabinet.

The final tab for that session was $2,500.

Trustee Jesse Alcalá said board members, who were known for fistfights behind closed doors, enjoyed a short honeymoon period after the retreat.

"It worked out for a while," Alcalá said.

But critics question why the district spent thousands on a resort and consultant.

"Are we really underfunded or are we crying wolf?" longtime resident Teri Kilmer asked. "We are spending money that should be going to educate our children."

Fewer students, schools
Fifth-grade teacher Debbi Verstuyft uses her creativity to give hands-on science lessons at Hoelscher Elementary School. Like most older schools, her elementary doesn't have a science lab and her classroom doesn't have a sink.

"We are lucky that we have the bathroom across the hall," she said. "It is a challenge and we have missed some things, but we've found ways to improvise."

Built in 1961, Hoelscher can't meet the demands of 473 students, not to mention the added pressure that a new state-mandated science test for fifth-graders has put on teachers and kids.

Some classrooms are too warm, others too cold. Pre-kindergarten and kindergarten students — about 110 of them — share a small bathroom down the hall.

Computers sit crammed next to each other, and wire dangles from the desks in the school's computer laboratory. When the room gets too warm, the computers crash, said Pam Reece, Hoelscher's principal.

Next year, Hoelscher will close and most students will transfer to newly renovated Roosevelt Elementary, scheduled to open in the fall with Reece as principal.

It's a sign of Edgewood's family spirit that the thought of losing the aging school fills many with sadness. In this district, it is not uncommon for three or four generations to attend the same schools.

"It's pretty sad because I like this school," said James Ventura, a fifth-grader and third-generation student.
But dwindling enrollment and a $3.6 million budget shortfall have forced tough decisions. In December, officials announced they would shutter Hoelscher, H.K. Williams, Emma Frey and Burleson elementary schools, sparking outrage and a petition drive among parents asking the board to reconsider.

Anger was exacerbated by a $56.6 million bond package trustees placed before voters last June. The money was going to pay to tear down and rebuild two aging schools and make other improvements. As they campaigned for the bond, board members said nothing about a plan to shutter schools.

Edgewood voters approved the bond only to learn later that four schools would close for good, intensifying the feeling of betrayal.

"We understand that there's been a decline in enrollment and that we are a poor district," said Rudy Lara, whose children attend L.B. Johnson Elementary School. "I don't think people are against new schools, but they can't justify closing four schools at the same time."

Those who support the school consolidations have pleaded with parents to face facts: Edgewood is shrinking.

"People said that we deceived them, but we've known this for a long time," Nava, the board president, said, dismissing opponents' argument that closing schools means shutting down communities. "I said we are making it bigger by consolidating our schools."

Whatever their concerns, parents are slowly coping with the changes, said Frances Madrigal, a parent facilitator at Hoelscher.

"Parents are starting to also understand that this is a reality and they are encouraging their kids."

Little jewel
Edgewood's many boosters, among them ninth-graders Nicolette Muñiz and Sarah Ríos, like to show off the Edgewood Academy of Communications and Fine Arts.

"We are so blessed to have this equipment on this side of town," Muñiz said as she escorted a visitor through television and radio studios.

Opened in 1998 and intended to one day be a magnet, the school boasts a state-of-the-art building and courses in dance, sculpture and music for the seventh-through 12th-graders who attend. Last year, the academy received three gold performance awards from the TEA for attendance, advanced academic courses and writing.

District officials converted Edgewood High School, which has suffered from declining enrollment, into the academy. The decision to close the old high school angered residents who felt loyal to it.

The $13.6 million face-lift included an auditorium that was closed several years ago because of problems with leaks and mold. Newly elected board members also rejected a plan that had been carefully crafted by a committee to open the academy to district high school students first and then, after two years, to students throughout San Antonio.

Today, the school, which has a 700-student capacity, remains just over half-full and still is open only to students in Edgewood.

"We had a beautiful plan," former board member Morales said, but it never was carried out.

The board painted the academy red and white — Edgewood High's colors — and restored the old high school's emblem.

When the academy opened, no dedication ceremony took place.

Catching up?
Edgewood educators say equity funding has made a clear and positive impact on their district. They point to last year's improved TAKS scores and an increased number of elementary schools winning the state's exemplary and recognized ratings in recent years as proof.

But the challenges never seem to stop coming.

"Equity has helped tremendously," retired teacher Diana Herrera said. "But every time we make some strides, the government comes and throws another hurdle at us."

Jimmy Vasquez, superintendent when the equity lawsuit started, has seen Edgewood through its journey from poster child for school equity to a shrinking urban district fighting demons both internal and external.

A staunch advocate for Edgewood's students, Vasquez taught math and government and was a vice principal and principal at Kennedy. He rose through the administration ranks and was named superintendent in 1978. He left the district in 1991 and is now executive director of the Region 19 Education Service Center in El Paso.

"Every year it was a battle to survive," he says.

It still is.

"Edgewood is not a community that ignores education, but they have to overcome decades of racism and neglect," Vasquez says. "How can you undo 100 years of neglect and underfunding? We had a flawed and unfair system that denied the most basic right to colored children and this is a deep, deep wound that would take time to overcome."

bigzak25
02-28-2005, 02:20 PM
edgewood is a fucked up district and it starts at the top.

but this shit doesn't help either....



"In Edgewood, you can't just teach, you have to do so much more," she said. "Our students have developmental, financial and social challenges."

parents are failing at an alarming rate in that district and the finger is being pointed at the schools, who are in turn pointing the finger at the gov't....etc, etc. More than enough blame to go around, but it starts at home. All the money, etc, is really showing dividends in the elementary schools, but only a small increase in achievment in the highschools? hmm...perhaps because it is much easier to discipline elementary students?
they are still afraid of a little authority, while the h.s. kids, as said, are having children of their own, etc.....they don't give two shits about math class...again, this all starts at home.

when there is a problem child, i think they should be suspended and then expelled. give the problem back to the parents or let that kid goto alternative school. i'd rather have that one kid go uneducated, be forced to earn his GED later in life, than let him/her drag down his/her classmates.....

i think more money should be spent on counselors and counseling. try to help those kids that want to change for the better. weed out the lost causes and the one's who have parents that feel that


"You don't come to Edgewood and to my house and tell me what's good for me."

that last quote you bolded is crying wolf. blame the oppression. blame the lack of a sink. oh the horror.

you gotta put hardasses in the schools (VP's) that don't take no stuff from the kids and back up the teachers. counselors that can talk to these kids and try to help when possible. and let the teacher's actually TEACH!!! then you can weed out teacher's that aren't worth a damn. More money to help is fantastic, but it's gotta be spent on the right things or else it's just pissing in the wind.....it's no wonder Supers are throwing their hands up at the politics and getting the hell outa dodge as fast as they can....

Hook Dem
02-28-2005, 02:33 PM
edgewood is a fucked up district and it starts at the top.

but this shit doesn't help either....




parents are failing at an alarming rate in that district and the finger is being pointed at the schools, who are in turn pointing the finger at the gov't....etc, etc. More than enough blame to go around, but it starts at home. All the money, etc, is really showing dividends in the elementary schools, but only a small increase in achievment in the highschools? hmm...perhaps because it is much easier to discipline elementary students?
they are still afraid of a little authority, while the h.s. kids, as said, are having children of their own, etc.....they don't give two shits about math class...again, this all starts at home.

when there is a problem child, i think they should be suspended and then expelled. give the problem back to the parents or let that kid goto alternative school. i'd rather have that one kid go uneducated, be forced to earn his GED later in life, than let him/her drag down his/her classmates.....

i think more money should be spent on counselors and counseling. try to help those kids that want to change for the better. weed out the lost causes and the one's who have parents that feel that



that last quote you bolded is crying wolf. blame the oppression. blame the lack of a sink. oh the horror.

you gotta put hardasses in the schools (VP's) that don't take no stuff from the kids and back up the teachers. counselors that can talk to these kids and try to help when possible. and let the teacher's actually TEACH!!! then you can weed out teacher's that aren't worth a damn. More money to help is fantastic, but it's gotta be spent on the right things or else it's just pissing in the wind.....it's no wonder Supers are throwing their hands up at the politics and getting the hell outa dodge as fast as they can....
Well said Zak!

desflood
02-28-2005, 03:17 PM
Did I read that correctly? $7,891 per student? The school I went to spent a bit over $3,000 per student and turned out some of the most educated in the state. Obviously the problem here is not money. "Budget shortfall" my behind.

MannyIsGod
03-01-2005, 11:47 AM
Did I read that correctly? $7,891 per student? The school I went to spent a bit over $3,000 per student and turned out some of the most educated in the state. Obviously the problem here is not money. "Budget shortfall" my behind.

2 quetions,then i'll respond.

1. How old are you?
2. Where did you go to school?

MannyIsGod
03-01-2005, 11:55 AM
edgewood is a fucked up district and it starts at the top.

but this shit doesn't help either....




parents are failing at an alarming rate in that district and the finger is being pointed at the schools, who are in turn pointing the finger at the gov't....etc, etc. More than enough blame to go around, but it starts at home. All the money, etc, is really showing dividends in the elementary schools, but only a small increase in achievment in the highschools? hmm...perhaps because it is much easier to discipline elementary students?
they are still afraid of a little authority, while the h.s. kids, as said, are having children of their own, etc.....they don't give two shits about math class...again, this all starts at home.



The parents ARE failing. But before we get all self righteous, lets ask WHY? Maybe it's because it's the poorest neighborhood in the city, and it isn't exactly the best quality of life. Maybe because many work shitty jobs for shitty pay that require much more than forty hours a week to support a family? Maybe because of the low quality of life, we have a much higher volume of social issues?

It's a cycle. Kid doesn't get an adequate education. Kid has kids, but can't work very well because of shitty education. Kid's Kid's grow up in a bad environment, start the same cycle over.

I'm not giving these parents a free pass. But I understand that life in Edgewood is DIFFERENT. I've lived there, and had my mother not moved me out of there when I was 8, who knows what I'd be doing now. I went from an edgewood campus without AC in 88, to a gorgeous Northside campus. I know how different things are.



when there is a problem child, i think they should be suspended and then expelled. give the problem back to the parents or let that kid goto alternative school. i'd rather have that one kid go uneducated, be forced to earn his GED later in life, than let him/her drag down his/her classmates.....

i think more money should be spent on counselors and counseling. try to help those kids that want to change for the better. weed out the lost causes and the one's who have parents that feel that


Yeah, they definetly need more money spent on EVERYTHING, including counselors. There are no losts causes.

You can't be soft with problem students, but you can't let them go uneducated either, you simply perputuate the cycle I spoke about above.

It's a hard line to draw, but that's because it's more of a gray area than a line.



that last quote you bolded is crying wolf. blame the oppression. blame the lack of a sink. oh the horror.

you gotta put hardasses in the schools (VP's) that don't take no stuff from the kids and back up the teachers. counselors that can talk to these kids and try to help when possible. and let the teacher's actually TEACH!!! then you can weed out teacher's that aren't worth a damn. More money to help is fantastic, but it's gotta be spent on the right things or else it's just pissing in the wind.....it's no wonder Supers are throwing their hands up at the politics and getting the hell outa dodge as fast as they can....

It's not crying wolf! That's bullshit. They are STILL trying to find a system to adequetly fund that damn district for an equal education. Robin Hood did a lot of good things for them, but you don't make sociatal change overnight, or even in one generation.

It takes time, and Edgewood has yet to see a large improvement in the neighborhood since the impimentation of Robin Hood.

desflood
03-01-2005, 12:20 PM
2 quetions,then i'll respond.

1. How old are you?
2. Where did you go to school?
1. 27
2. Michigan

Checked out the old school last year, and they still haven't gone over $4,000 per student.

JoeChalupa
03-01-2005, 12:25 PM
Go Big Ten!!

MannyIsGod
03-01-2005, 12:33 PM
That's pretty impressive. I don't pretened to know how Michigan calculates their per student expenditures and how it lines up with Texas, however. If they are tabulated in an equal way, I'd love to see how they are doing that up in Michigan.

desflood
03-01-2005, 12:40 PM
It's a parochial school. Those Michigan Catholics are notorious cheapskates! The teachers (right up to the superintendent) earn about half of what average public school teachers do in any state. It can be done, if the adults in question think more about the kids than lining their own pockets.

desflood
03-01-2005, 12:41 PM
Public schools, however... might be up there with the schools here. Mostly because of widespread corruption in the higher-ups.

Useruser666
03-01-2005, 03:03 PM
Edgewood school board = VIA Board = SA city council

desflood
03-01-2005, 03:08 PM
According to the National Education Association (www.nea.org) the average expenditure per student per year in the state of Texas is $7,875, while the average public school teacher's salary is $45,891.

Clandestino
03-01-2005, 04:10 PM
It's a parochial school. Those Michigan Catholics are notorious cheapskates! The teachers (right up to the superintendent) earn about half of what average public school teachers do in any state. It can be done, if the adults in question think more about the kids than lining their own pockets.

many church schools don't even require teachers to be certified either...

desflood
03-01-2005, 04:13 PM
Public schools require certified teachers, but many of them don't teach the subjects they've been trained for anyway. Math teachers teaching history, etc. Most private schools will only hire certified teachers anyway, because (heaven forbid) that's the best way to teach the children.

MannyIsGod
03-01-2005, 05:42 PM
Well we're comparing apples to oranges then.

I'll post more on this later though.

desflood
03-01-2005, 06:18 PM
Well, I'd suggest shaving a thousand off each teacher's salary and giving it back to the school, but the Union would have me lynched for even hinting of something like that.

MannyIsGod
03-01-2005, 06:19 PM
Uh, I'd have you lynched for saying that.

desflood
03-01-2005, 06:22 PM
Oh, is almost $46,000 not enough for those poor, deprived people? Sure, they have a tough job. So do cops. So do military members. So do many others who get paid much less than that.

Guru of Nothing
03-01-2005, 09:20 PM
Now, if I wanted to, I could come up with critical things to say about teachers, but I would never resort to saying that they are overpaid.

$46,000 is not that much, and besides, how many years on the job does a $46,000 per year teacher have, typically? Show me a experienced teacher in Michigan willing to work for half of that and I'll show you a nun. It's not like teachers are being recruited out of college for that kind of money. As a point of reference (and my memory is a little fuzzy here), a year ago or so, I quickly tallied that, had I stayed in the military and moved up through the enlisted ranks as should be expected, I'd be pulling down $65,000 a year as an enlisted member of the military (that's on the top end; it could have been less depending on timing and the rules of sea pay and sub pay). I suspect police officers with 20 years experience fall into that same ballpark, and as a taxpayer, I say rightfully so.

I don't know your personal history, nor do I want to, but seeing that you are 27 years old, it's not unusual to be a little frustrated with your current lot in life. I expect that you will be singing a different tune 10 years from now.

JoeChalupa
03-01-2005, 09:30 PM
I'm not trying to be an a-hole but...I could live quite comfortably on $46K a year. Hell, my family could live quite nicely on that.

I don't think teachers are overpaid by any means but I also don't think that $46,000.00 year "is not that much".

But that's just me and I'm a cheap bastard who won't even pay to go see a movie because I think it is a rip off.

SequSpur
03-01-2005, 09:37 PM
Maybe they should tear down the schools and start over.

Guru of Nothing
03-01-2005, 09:54 PM
I'm not trying to be an a-hole but...I could live quite comfortably on $46K a year. Hell, my family could live quite nicely on that.

I don't think teachers are overpaid by any means but I also don't think that $46,000.00 year "is not that much".

But that's just me and I'm a cheap bastard who won't even pay to go see a movie because I think it is a rip off.

I sometimes don't construct my thoughts well. $46,000, especially in San Antonio, is an attractive salary. My "not that much" comment was reactionary to desfloods lament.

What I meant to say is that $46,000 is not necessarily too much.

Guru of Nothing
03-01-2005, 10:03 PM
I'm a cheap bastard who won't even pay to go see a movie because I think it is a rip off.

That's interesting to me Joe, because of late, I've tried to be budget savvy. So as not not to hijack this thread, I'm gonna go start a frugal thread in the Club.

desflood
03-01-2005, 10:52 PM
Teachers deserve all the pay in the world! But, since nobody in the public school system wants to do the overhaul that needs to be done and make do with less money, I'm trying to find creative ways to shovel more coal onto the dying fire.

JoeChalupa
03-01-2005, 10:58 PM
I agree. What do you think of the concept of having less school districts?
Seems to me like a lot of money could be better spent than paying these superintendents a huge salary. It is a huge salary to me anyways.

Hook Dem
03-01-2005, 11:38 PM
"It is a huge salary to me anyways.".........................................You are correct Joe! It is,

MannyIsGod
03-01-2005, 11:43 PM
Ok, 46k is a lot. But that tune changes when you factor in the amount of work each week. A forty hour work week? YEAH FREAKING RIGHT!

Clandestino
03-02-2005, 09:23 AM
most teachers don't start out at 46,000 though...

Shelly
03-02-2005, 10:16 AM
Northside Teacher's Salary (http://www.nisd.net/hr/compensation/payscaleteacher04-public.htm)

Clandestino
03-02-2005, 11:24 AM
so, now only 23yrs experience gets you 46k in the northside... imagine what it is on the southside.

2004-2005 NORTHSIDE SALARY *
Classroom Teacher, Librarian & Nurse Schedule

YEARS BACHELOR'S MASTER'S
EXPERIENCE DEGREE DEGREE

0 35,020 36,050
1 35,120 36,150
2 35,220 36,250
3 35,320 36,350
4 35,420 36,450
5 35,556 36,622
6 35,968 37,034
7 36,452 37,518
8 36,972 38,059
9 37,514 38,601
10 38,059 39,145
11 38,976 40,074
12 39,568 40,623
13 40,125 41,172
14 40,877 41,922
15 41,371 42,474
16 41,922 43,026
17 42,475 43,760
18 43,026 44,570
19 43,787 45,462
20 44,341 46,420
21 45,327 47,804
22 45,978 48,489
23 46,671 49,177
24 47,605 50,108
25 48,356 50,802
26 49,110 51,819
27 49,740 52,509
28 49,740 53,612
29 50,588 54,684
30 51,367 55,821
31 52,183 56,889
32 53,002 57,921
33+ 54,028 59,051

NOTES: *This schedule is for classroom teachers, librarians, and nurses for the 2004-2005
school year.
*Scheduled base salaries for teachers, librarians and nurses are for 187 days.
*To compute the salary for a classroom teacher on the career ladder or the
Teacher Initiative Reward Program (TIRP):
--Add $1,500 to the scheduled salary for Level II
--Add $3,000 to the scheduled salary for Level III
*To compute the salary for a librarian employed prior to the 1996-97 school year,
add $1,500 to the scheduled salary.
*Teachers and librarians with a doctorate degree add $1,400 to the Master's Degree
Schedule (must have a Master's Degree).

MannyIsGod
03-02-2005, 02:22 PM
Northside teachers are generally paid better than other teachers, correct?

JohnnyMarzetti
03-02-2005, 02:51 PM
Most teachers that I've spoken to did not get into the profession for the money, but because they wanted to be teachers. Don't they know what they are getting into before they take the job? As teachers shouldn't they "learn" about the profession before they get into it and then bitch about the long hours and pay!?

They can apply at Toyota too you know.

Useruser666
03-02-2005, 03:23 PM
Most teachers that I've spoken to did not get into the profession for the money, but because they wanted to be teachers. Don't they know what they are getting into before they take the job? As teachers shouldn't they "learn" about the profession before they get into it and then bitch about the long hours and pay!?

They can apply at Toyota too you know.

That is a very stupid comment to make.

3rdCoast
03-02-2005, 03:35 PM
i know 3 teachers very well and they teach in 2 teach in the same isd and one in another isd. all three have less than 5 years teaching experience and all threee pull in at least 45k.

and all three do not work more than 40 classroom hours.

Useruser666
03-02-2005, 04:13 PM
Classroom hours don't mean jack shit. How many other professions are there that have to take work home on a nightly basis?

And their salaries are above average then.

3rdCoast
03-02-2005, 04:27 PM
let me say it again. i didnt say it right the first time. they dont give out homework, they tell the kids to do it in class then they give out tests and grade them during their conferance periods.

its not an easy job but its not like being a doctor or something. no owork is taken home. extra hours are however put on the practice fields tho. long practices= good teams.

JohnnyMarzetti
03-02-2005, 05:01 PM
Most teachers that I've spoken to did not get into the profession for the money, but because they wanted to be teachers. Don't they know what they are getting into before they take the job? As teachers shouldn't they "learn" about the profession before they get into it and then bitch about the long hours and pay!?

They can apply at Toyota too you know.[?QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Useruser666]That is a very stupid comment to make.

Why? Because they chose to be teachers and now can't handle it? I have respect for teachers but the have the option to find another profession just as much as the next person. Do they not?

Useruser666
03-02-2005, 05:50 PM
Why? Because they chose to be teachers and now can't handle it? I have respect for teachers but the have the option to find another profession just as much as the next person. Do they not?

So a teachers job is just like anyone else's? And in no other perfession should an employee expect a raise? You sure have a funny way of stating your so called "respect" for teachers. I guess they should tell every young person that wants to be a teacher to forget it, because they can forget about ever getting a raise or being paid for what should be considered one of the most important jobs in the world. Teachers' salaries are pitiful compared to many other careers in the US. So for teaching the youth of America how to become the leaders, doctors, lawyers, and professionals of the future, educators should just take poor salary and shut their traps about it? Pffft!


let me say it again. i didnt say it right the first time. they dont give out homework, they tell the kids to do it in class then they give out tests and grade them during their conferance periods.

its not an easy job but its not like being a doctor or something. no owork is taken home. extra hours are however put on the practice fields tho. long practices= good teams.

I don't know what grade level they teach, or where they teach, but I do not consider that the rule when it comes to out of classroom work for educators.

You are right when you say teaching is not like being a doctor or a lawyer. Teaching is more about guiding a young person into becoming a lawyer or a doctor. Teaching is pushing a child to succeed and to develop them to their full potential. If you don't have teachers that want to teach, they will be processing kids like orders in a fast food drive-thru.

3rdCoast
03-02-2005, 05:53 PM
school is gay, all that matters is how the kids do on the field.j/p

Nbadan
03-03-2005, 05:30 PM
Northside teachers are generally paid better than other teachers, correct?

NE teachers earn the most followed (not closely) by SAISD and then Northside. In general, you need about 5-10 years experience to earn $45,000 in the best districts. In the worst, you could work 20+ years and never earn that much.

It's all money well spent though, because teachers spend much of their own money supplying poorer students with needed class-room supplies parents can't afford, provide teaching materials that the district can't afford, and still have to be model citizens, and on top of that, pay for their own health insurance.

JoeChalupa
03-03-2005, 05:39 PM
NE teachers earn the most followed (not closely) by SAISD and then Northside. In general, you need about 5-10 years experience to earn $45,000 in the best districts. In the worst, you could work 20+ years and never earn that much.

It's all money well spent though, because teachers spend much of their own money supplying poorer students with needed class-room supplies parents can't afford, provide teaching materials that the district can't afford, and still have to be model citizens, and on top of that, pay for their own health insurance.

They also don't pay into Social Security right?

MannyIsGod
03-03-2005, 05:54 PM
No, the don't. Is there a relevence?

Clandestino
03-04-2005, 12:29 AM
No, the don't. Is there a relevence?

yeah, i don't know what that pertains too either.. they pay into a teacher retirement fund...

JoeChalupa
03-04-2005, 08:13 AM
No, the don't. Is there a relevence?

Does there have to be? I was a simple statement that happens to be a fact. Jeeeze Louise.

MannyIsGod
03-04-2005, 11:34 AM
Does there have to be? Uh, I think so?

Joe, when entering information into a discussion, it helps if it's relevent in some way. Sure it doens't have to be, but then whats the point?

I wasn't being an ass, I was trying to figure out what you were getting at.