Turks With Palestinian Flags Attack Israeli Club

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

In Eurocup game of Israeli club Bnei Hasharon and Turkish club Turk Telekom which is held at Ankara Turkey there is attack.

Turk fans attack and have flag of Palestine and chant "Death to the Jews!". Israeli club needs 1,500 riot police help to escape arena. ULEB head then decide Israel club will get a loss for game :lol

Look like Turkey is sending strong message to Israel.

[jack sommerset]

Unreal

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/2009-01-06-2585044372_x.htm

The fans chanted "God is Great" and "Killer Israel."

police used riot shields to protect them as they left the court. :lol

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/feedarticle/8202302

Turkish fans began chanting "Israel, killers!"

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/middleeast/news/article_1451939.php/Israeli_basketball_match_is_called_off_in_Ankara_a fter_mass_protests_

Some 1,500 police were called to Ankara's Ataturk Arena late Tuesday after fans and demonstrators forced a European Cup basketball match between a local and an Israeli team to be called off.

An Israeli flag was burned outside the stadium :downspin:


Turks have very clever chants for game :rollin

[lefty]

Rofl

Apparently the Israeli team didn't have Udoka to defend them :lol

[Brazil]

I didn't see anything funny about that.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I didn't see anything funny about that.

Of course is funny thing. This what happen in this part of world if piss off neighbors. Remember when Serbs and Turks piss off Greeks before similar riots occur at games. Israel is just lucky this was not soccer match or Turks would have got them.

Was only 3,000 Turks able to get into arena from report.

[JoeTait75]

Israel is just lucky this was not soccer match or Turks would have got them.

The Turks have always been their toughest when facing an unarmed opponent.

[Obstructed_View]

They learned a lot from the Nazis. How proud they must be.

[Brazil]

Of course is funny thing. This what happen in this part of world if piss off neighbors. Remember when Serbs and Turks piss off Greeks before similar riots occur at games. Israel is just lucky this was not soccer match or Turks would have got them.

Was only 3,000 Turks able to get into arena from report.

it's not funny because there is a war and casualties, it's not funny because behind that there is hate.

[de Soto]

fucking towelheads

[hater]

well the only funny thing is that they gave the Israeli team the loss.

[DANILO DRASKOVIC]

guess more Americans will ask to be released
Philip Ricci decided not to return to Ironi Nahariya

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

The Turks have always been their toughest when facing an unarmed opponent.

of course do not have to tell Greek this.

xjveo4DS9IA&fmt=18

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

well the only funny thing is that they gave the Israeli team the loss.

ULEB President must have good sense of humor.

[DPG21920]

Very sad

[ClingingMars]

well the only funny thing is that they gave the Israeli team the loss.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Israel is just lucky this was not soccer match or Turks would have got them.

The Turks are just lucky this wasn't a real war where Israel had time to mobilize its troops. Israel could blow those ragheads to oblivion if the world wasn't so focused on being politically correct. It's time you treat the animals like animals. The Turks acted like animals in this situation, the same animals that attacked America on September 11th.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

ULEB head then decide Israel club will get a loss for game :lol

Even though the universal rule is the home team forfeits when the home crowd acts unruly and prevents the game from being played.


Look like Turkey is sending strong message to Israel.

"when we outnumber you, take you by surprise and attack your unarmed soccer team, your toast."

I don't consider that a "strong" message. That is actually a sign of weakness that they have to resort to gurilla warfare.

[endrity]

You guys gotta stop getting your news from FOX! Israel has stopped being the hunted and became the hunter a loooong time ago, somewhere around 1948.

As Nobel winning economist Paul Krugman wrote, "the reason why Americans see the world differently from the rest of the world is because they get different news".

[JoeTait75]

You guys gotta stop getting your news from FOX! Israel has stopped being the hunted and became the hunter a loooong time ago, somewhere around 1948.

I'm guessing the players on Bnei Hasharon might disagree with you on that.

I'm also guessing a Turkish club team wouldn't get the same treatment in Tel Aviv.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

The Turks are just lucky this wasn't a real war where Israel had time to mobilize its troops. Israel could blow those ragheads to oblivion if the world wasn't so focused on being politically correct. It's time you treat the animals like animals. The Turks acted like animals in this situation, the same animals that attacked America on September 11th.

:lol Is this American education at work? As Greek I know Turkey military well. Israel wants no part of Turkey in war.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

You guys gotta stop getting your news from FOX! Israel has stopped being the hunted and became the hunter a loooong time ago, somewhere around 1948.

As Nobel winning economist Paul Krugman wrote, "the reason why Americans see the world differently from the rest of the world is because they get different news".

Is obvious average American lack basic knowledge.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You guys gotta stop getting your news from FOX! Israel has stopped being the hunted and became the hunter a loooong time ago, somewhere around 1948.

As Nobel winning economist Paul Krugman wrote, "the reason why Americans see the world differently from the rest of the world is because they get different news".

I'm a Democrat but this isn't about political parties and it drives me crazy when people make everything about political parties.

Unless you're Jewish, why don't you stop talking down to a Jew who is thoroughly educated about Israeli history from the 1940's to present day. Israel has never been the aggressor, Jerusalem is the holy city for Jews, forgive Israel for wanting control of it. This isn't about political correctness, it's about the fact the Muslims are the extremists.

Who the fuck was the aggressor in this soccer match?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I'm a Democrat but this isn't about political parties and it drives me crazy when people make everything about political parties.

Unless you're Jewish, why don't you stop talking down to a Jew who is thoroughly educated about Israeli history from the 1940's to present day. Israel has never been the aggressor, Jerusalem is the holy city for Jews, forgive Israel for wanting control of it. This isn't about political correctness, it's about the fact the Muslims are the extremists.

Who the fuck was the aggressor in this soccer match?

You are moron. You cannot even gets facts about this one incident right. You are typical idiot.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:lol Is this American education at work? As Greek I know Turkey military well. Israel wants no part of Turkey in war.

As a Jew I know Israeli military very well. I can also tell your an anti-Semite, so your view is biased.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You are moron. You cannot even gets facts about this one incident right. You are typical idiot.

have you ever heard of the word "a" or "an"? It comes in handy at times, fuck off Eastern European trash.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

As a Jew I know Israeli military very well. I can also tell your an anti-Semite, so your view is biased.

Fuck you racist asshole. Just because some disagree that Israel can bomb any country they like does not make this person anti semite. You is the racist bastard and fuck you.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Is obvious average American lack basic knowledge.

is obvious average foreigner lack basic grammar.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

is obvious average foreigner lack basic grammar.

In Hellas person such as you will not last past first few such words as you say here. We already dealt with your kind in Athens in 1930s events.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Fuck you racist asshole. Just because some disagree that Israel can bomb any country they like does not make this person anti semite. You is the racist bastard and fuck you.

You ARE the racist bastard is the correct way to write that. Insults don't quite hold the same value to me if the person saying them has the writing ability of a 7 year old.

[ChumpDumper]

Jerusalem is the holy city for Jews, forgive Israel for wanting control of it.Well, it's pretty holy for Muslims too, but I guess you guys were there first....

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

In Hellas person such as you will not last past first few such words as you say here.

Fortunately I could care less about Eastern Europe seeing that I'll never a land fill.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Well, it's pretty holy for Muslims too, but I guess you guys were there first....

Mecca is the holy city to Muslims, and the Jews have/want no presence there.

[Pero]

They learned a lot from the Nazis. How proud they must be.

The Israelis? Yeah, I think so too.

[Pero]

Israel will be toast as soon as they lose the backing of America.

No kidding.

[ChumpDumper]

Mecca is the holy city to Muslims, and the Jews have/want no presence there.Medina is also pretty holy to them, as is Jerusalem -- that's where they say Mohamed ascended to heaven, toured the grounds and took Moses' advice about haggling with God over the number of times to pray to him a day. [insert stereotype joke here]

[Sportstudi]

well the only funny thing is that they gave the Israeli team the loss.

They gave the loss to the Israeli team because after the arena was empty they refused to go back on the court and play. The refs wanted to start the game without spectators but the players of Bnei Hasharon didn't want to.

[JoeTait75]

Israel will be toast as soon as they lose the backing of America.

The Israelis didn't get serious military and financial backing from the Americans until the early '70s. They annihilated five Arab armies in the Six-Day War using second-hand West German tanks and second-hand French planes.

If the Arabs want the land back, they'd better pull a Saladin out of their ass, no matter who is/isn't backing the Israelis.

[Pero]

If the Arabs want the land back, they'd better pull a Saladin out of their ass, no matter who is/isn't backing the Israelis.

:lol:

[endrity]

I'm a Democrat but this isn't about political parties and it drives me crazy when people make everything about political parties.

Unless you're Jewish, why don't you stop talking down to a Jew who is thoroughly educated about Israeli history from the 1940's to present day. Israel has never been the aggressor, Jerusalem is the holy city for Jews, forgive Israel for wanting control of it. This isn't about political correctness, it's about the fact the Muslims are the extremists.

Who the fuck was the aggressor in this soccer match?

Well let's start from the creation of Israel. When you took the land from the Arabs living in the area, did it ever occur that they might not like it? Also, since Israel has expanded the territory since 1948, maybe that makes the Arabs even more angry. And while it's cool that you consider Jerusalem your holy city there is that tiny problem that Muslims do as well, and in a realist world nothing makes your religiously motivated views better than theirs. Israel had done nothing to help solve the Palestinian issue, leaving those people to live in refugee camps for decades now. Yes there are a lot of extremist Muslims, but there is always a reason, and it isn't because they were simply born as worse people.

[endrity]

The Israelis didn't get serious military and financial backing from the Americans until the early '70s. They annihilated five Arab armies in the Six-Day War using second-hand West German tanks and second-hand French planes.

If the Arabs want the land back, they'd better pull a Saladin out of their ass, no matter who is/isn't backing the Israelis.

Well they got tanks and planes from somewhere, and it's always good to have those when the others are mostly fighting while riding horses.

[JoeTait75]

Well they got tanks and planes from somewhere, and it's always good to have those when the others are mostly fighting while riding horses.

The Arabs were getting weaponry from the Soviets at the time. They weren't riding horses.

[endrity]

No, for them as well the help started much later. The Soviets backed the Allies in their plan to relocate the Jews in Israel because they didn't want them around USSR or Eastern Europe.

[JoeTait75]

No, for them as well the help started much later. The Soviets backed the Allies in their plan to relocate the Jews in Israel because they didn't want them around USSR or Eastern Europe.

The British ran Palestine at the time, and they had no plan to relocate the Jews to Israel. After 1939, they fought it every step of the way. The Jews weren't targeting the British for nothing at the time.

There were no string-pullers. The Jews wanted the land, and they took it. The justice of it is up for question, but it wasn't as if the Jews were pawns. They determined their own fate.

[Brazil]

wow this thread is going nowhere

[Pero]

wow this thread is going nowhere

Ironically that's one possible way to describe the situation.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

The Israelis didn't get serious military and financial backing from the Americans until the early '70s. They annihilated five Arab armies in the Six-Day War using second-hand West German tanks and second-hand French planes.

If the Arabs want the land back, they'd better pull a Saladin out of their ass, no matter who is/isn't backing the Israelis.

Idiot. Turkey is a major military power.

[JoeTait75]

Idiot. Turkey is a major military power.

Yeah, when they're up against Armenian refugees, Jewish basketball players, and Cypriot Greek civilians, they're real badasses. Against everyone else, not so much.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Yeah, when they're up against Armenian refugees, Jewish basketball players, and Cypriot Greek civilians, they're real badasses. Against everyone else, not so much.

You are another typical US education. You are complete joke. Turkey is much stronger in military in that region that country like Iran or Israel. You too much American TV.

[endrity]

The British ran Palestine at the time, and they had no plan to relocate the Jews to Israel. After 1939, they fought it every step of the way. The Jews weren't targeting the British for nothing at the time.

There were no string-pullers. The Jews wanted the land, and they took it. The justice of it is up for question, but it wasn't as if the Jews were pawns. They determined their own fate.

I am sorry but you have to read more about the issue. After WWII it was clear the British were going to lose most of their colonnies, Palestine included. The era of colonial powers was coming to an end. So really the British weren't concerned that much, since they were going to lose that land anyway. The Allies decided at the end of the war and after the Holocaust was revealed that in order to prevent this from happening aggain they needed to relocate the Jews in one country of their own. The current territory was chosen for two reasons:
1) it was the territory that their religion, and the West's religion as well, claimed to be theirs by right of God
2) in the later centuries the Jews had been much safer throughout the middle east than they had been in Europe, there was very little anti-semitism left in the Arab world from the Crusades years.

So the Allies, unilaterally, decided that Israel was going to become the Jew homeland. Great for the Jews, not so much for the Arabs.

[endrity]

And while I am no fan of KBP it's a mistake to equate Turkey's power with the rest of the Arab world. They are much more advanced. Not that somehow I am trying to promote Turkish power in the region or anything.
p.s It's strange that a Greek would defend Turkey so much, maybe the doubts about KBP's real identity are true after all.

[ClingingMars]

wow this thread is going nowhere

yeah, and the Antisemitism in this thread is disturbing and bordering on racism.

-Mars

[romad_20]

2) in the later centuries the Jews had been much safer throughout the middle east than they had been in Europe, there was very little anti-semitism left in the Arab world from the Crusades years.


Oooops. Guess that backfired

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

For idiot that think Turkey is not military power

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Armed_Forces

The TAF, with a combined troop strength of 1,054,750 soldiers, is the second largest standing force in NATO (after the United States). Currently, up to 36,700 troops may be stationed in the north of Cyprus as part of the Cyprus Turkish Peace Force.

Advocates of the European Union as a superpower have predicted that the addition of the Turkish Armed Forces into the EU Military Framework will enable it to be a true global player. The TAF already participates in European Union battle groups under control of the European Council, as a part of the Italian-Romanian-Turkish Battle group, which will be on standby for duty during June–December 2010. It also contributes operational staff to the Eurocorps multinational army corps initiative of the EU and NATO.

NATO officials also state that the modern day Turkish Armed Forces are "very experienced and well-trained".



Country Military Expenditures Billions $USD

1. United States $711,000,000,000
2. France $61,571,330,000
3. United Kingdom $61,280,890,000
4. China $58,800,000,000
5. Russia $50,000,000,000
6. Japan $48,860,000,000
7. Germany $45,930,000,000
8. Saudi Arabia $31,050,000,000
9. Turkey $30,936,000,000
10. South Korea $28,940,000,000
11. India $26,500,000,000
12. Australia $24,802,000,000
13. Brazil $23,972,836,012
14. Canada $19,507,013,000
15. Iraq $17,900,000,000
16. Italy $15,500,000,000
17. Netherlands $12,000,000,000
18. Poland $11,791,000,000
19. Taiwan $10,500,000,000
20. Israel $9,444,000,000
21. Spain $9,100,000,000
22. Greece $7,934,000,000
23. Pakistan $7,800,000,000
24. Singapore $7,129,400,000
25. Sweden $6,309,137,714
26. Iran $6,300,000,000

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

And while I am no fan of KBP it's a mistake to equate Turkey's power with the rest of the Arab world. They are much more advanced. Not that somehow I am trying to promote Turkish power in the region or anything.
p.s It's strange that a Greek would defend Turkey so much, maybe the doubts about KBP's real identity are true after all.

Greeks will always hate Turks. But as Greek ALL men must train in Greek military. Every one of us must do this. We know very well from army training what is truth. By far major power of whole region in military is Turkey. This is some crazy talk from stupid American if he believe Israel can fuck with them in war.

[endrity]

Oooops. Guess that backfired

Big time my friend... big time.

Also, I don't considery myself anti-semitic, but it bothers me that people in the US are also completely unable to reason when Israel is involved. They are by no means saints in the current conflict. Yet if you just hint that some presidential candidate in the US is not completely supportive of Israel you might win the elections. That's not only unfair, it's blind reasoning.

[endrity]

Greeks will always hate Turks. But as Greek ALL men must train in Greek military. Every one of us must do this. We know very well from army training what is truth. By far major power of whole region in military is Turkey. This is some crazy talk from stupid American if he believe Israel can fuck with them in war.

To be fair, your numbers are total spending on military. A much better number would be spending per soldier. Given that Turkey has huge population (around 80mil if I am not mistaken) it makes sense for them to have a larger spending. But Israel also spends quite a bit for a small country, and are very advanced technologically.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

To be fair, your numbers are total spending on military. A much better number would be spending per soldier. Given that Turkey has huge population (around 80mil if I am not mistaken) it makes sense for them to have a larger spending. But Israel also spends quite a bit for a small country, and are very advanced technologically.

Turkey is all important for NATO itself. US is even very careful of them. Always they are asking them for permissions to operate in region and NEVER they dare to fuck with them like they does with Pakistan and Iran. Greek army knows very well what Turks can do. At any time they want they can come into Israel and also Balkans and can wipe them away.

[SpursIndonesia]

.......... Israel has never been the aggressor, Jerusalem is the holy city for Jews, forgive Israel for wanting control of it. This isn't about political correctness, it's about the fact the Muslims are the extremists.

............?

Talking about being ignorant and racist, oh well, this is a nice example of it. Another hollier than thou attitude, you're no better than those radical HAMAS and Al Qaeda fools.

[YellowFever]

This is going to be long.....




:lol Is this American education at work? As Greek I know Turkey military well. Israel wants no part of Turkey in war.

Listen Greek boy, I'm getting sick and tired of you whining about "American idiots" and "American fools" and the like. Worry about your own messed up country and maybe your country can once again gain some respect around the world.


You guys gotta stop getting your news from FOX! Israel has stopped being the hunted and became the hunter a loooong time ago, somewhere around 1948.

As Nobel winning economist Paul Krugman wrote, "the reason why Americans see the world differently from the rest of the world is because they get different news".

You name me three stories from FOX where the news was skewed beyond what the people at MSNBC, CNN SKYNEWS, REUTERS, AP, BBC, etc etc reported. And please don't copy/paste any articles from left leaning websites. You seem know quite a bit about global politics, I'd be dissapointed if you copy/paste articles from Salon and the like.
And whose to say the news Americans receive are any less accurate or balanced than the news that Europe gets? I've seen enough news from those places and trust me, it's not even funny as to how anti-american they are (and I'm not american..you can't acccuse me of being biased about this)


Israel will be toast as soon as they lose the backing of America. That will be the most joyous day in the history of man!!!

Why will this be joyous?



Well let's start from the creation of Israel. When you took the land from the Arabs living in the area, did it ever occur that they might not like it?

The Israelites were living on that land just as long as Syrians, Iraqis, Iranians, and other arabs. And of course they did not like it. If a group of people were to gain enough political clout as to stand up and say this land is now ours, the other people won't like it. Does it mean it's not the Israelite's land? They have a much stronger case for that land than americans did for the United States.


Also, since Israel has expanded the territory since 1948, maybe that makes the Arabs even more angry.

Arabs fault. It was stupid of them to attacked Israel one day after Israel became "legit" in the eyes of the world. It was the arabs that forsake politics and attacked, and it was the arabs that got their collextive asses kicked to the point where the Jews were able to expand (war bootie, you might say...everybody does it)



And while it's cool that you consider Jerusalem your holy city there is that tiny problem that Muslims do as well, and in a realist world nothing makes your religiously motivated views better than theirs. Israel had done nothing to help solve the Palestinian issue, leaving those people to live in refugee camps for decades now. Yes there are a lot of extremist Muslims, but there is always a reason, and it isn't because they were simply born as worse people.

Yes, this is a problem but in the real world, sorry to say, might makes right. Did the Native Americans throw a hissy fit when Colonial Americans started to build on their "sacred" burial sites? Yes they did. Did Colonial Americans care? No they didn't.



Israel had done nothing to help solve the Palestinian issue, leaving those people to live in refugee camps for decades now.

Was there EVER a country called Palestine?
No.
It describes a region of land and the people that lived on it. You might even say Israelites can technically call themselves "Palestinians" as well. And those people were living in refugee camps even when that land was under arab control. Don't give the people the wrong impressions and say refugee camps sprang up when the Jews took over that land (made entirely possible, as I said before, because the arabs attacked Israel first)


Yes there are a lot of extremist Muslims, but there is always a reason, and it isn't because they were simply born as worse people.

No there is not ALWAYS a reason. You're making excuses for those extremists. Other people around the world suffered just as much injustices (and much worse) than these people perceived they have. Most of them don't blow themselves up in shopping malls with hundreds of people around. I could give you my theories but that would take too long here.


Idiot. Turkey is a major military power.

Idiot, Turkey is a major military power regionally.


You are another typical US education. You are complete joke. Turkey is much stronger in military in that region that country like Iran or Israel. You too much American TV.

And you are another typical Euro-educated idiot. Turkey and Israel are strong military powers (hard to say who would win if they go head to head) but they both have no power projection capability whatsoever. In other words, it would be stupid for one country to attacked the other. Logistics would guarantee whoever attacks will lose, without a major backing from a global power (namely the US and to a lesser degree, Englands or Russia)


The Allies decided at the end of the war and after the Holocaust was revealed that in order to prevent this from happening aggain they needed to relocate the Jews in one country of their own. The current territory was chosen for two reasons:
1) it was the territory that their religion, and the West's religion as well, claimed to be theirs by right of God
2) in the later centuries the Jews had been much safer throughout the middle east than they had been in Europe, there was very little anti-semitism left in the Arab world from the Crusades years.

So the Allies, unilaterally, decided that Israel was going to become the Jew homeland. Great for the Jews, not so much for the Arabs.

There were a godly amount of Jews already on the land that ultimately became known as Israel. Granted more and more jews migrated after it became an "offical" country but it wasn't a matter of the allies saying "hey, this place is good to dump jews so let's do it and screw the people living on it."

Just because the Jews were able to gain political power, and actually build that piece of rathole into a viable piece of land doesn't mean they are at fault. That's the way most countries in the world were started.
Hell, maybe if the arabs and the "palestinians" stopped the occasional insult and "death to jews" chants and started to work with Israel, maybe they too can enjoy the standard of living alot of arabs in Israel are enjoying.


Turkey is all important for NATO itself. US is even very careful of them. Always they are asking them for permissions to operate in region and NEVER they dare to fuck with them like they does with Pakistan and Iran. Greek army knows very well what Turks can do. At any time they want they can come into Israel and also Balkans and can wipe them away.

Turkey is smart, Greek boy.
At least on the government level they enjoy a very good diplomatic relationship with the Jews. It's very common for Turkey to buy Israel military equipment becuase the jews also give them technology transfers that come with buying military equipment.

And why do you think Turkey has such a good military? You think they made it themselves? Their land is strategically very important. It will be important for NATO to use their land in any engagements with Russia or any country in the Middle East. They are where they are militarily because NATO needs them to be strong and is helping them accordingly.

[SmellyFeet]

All I know is that we own thopse towel heads. Gonna blow them up like fucken gazza:)

[romad_20]

Yet if you just hint that some presidential candidate in the US is not completely supportive of Israel you might win the elections. That's not only unfair, it's blind reasoning.

Agreed. I think that has less to do with the opinion of the general public in America than it does with the "establishment" folks who run Washington and have ties to certain groups.

America (as a country) would have a lot less problems in the world if it weren't for Israel and Palestine, but it is what it is. There is no real black or white answer for who is right and who is wrong in the conflict and people who have no vested intrest in the region have a hard time relating to either side. What can you do?

[YellowFever]

Big time my friend... big time.

Also, I don't considery myself anti-semitic, but it bothers me that people in the US are also completely unable to reason when Israel is involved. They are by no means saints in the current conflict. Yet if you just hint that some presidential candidate in the US is not completely supportive of Israel you might win the elections. That's not only unfair, it's blind reasoning.

This true.

But it also supports my argument that Jews know how to play the political game very well. A politician running for any significant office in this land needs Jewish votes and especially the Monetary support coming from the Jewish community.

You might not like the idea and certainly I don't but Jews have put themselves in a position where their support is greatly needed in American politics.

At a purely non-partisan level, I wish my country enjoyed the same influence as they do. :lol

[endrity]

I am about to go to sleep because I have a flight to catch tomorrow, and I would like to continue this since it's well within my areas of study but I can't at least today.

I will say this: a lot of your reasoning comes down the idea of power, the west decided, the jews gained enough power and so on. There is nothing wrong with that, in fact most of the real world politics are done on that simple idea. But please don't argue that those outcomes are also fair and just. What was done to the Jews for centuries across Europe was not only unjust, but cruel and inhuman. That is exactly what the Jews do now most of the time to the Arabs, especially the Palestinians. Just because they have more power now doesn't make it more right in my eyes.

And no, I don't believe people are born intrinsically bad. I think there is always some reason for hostility to develop. Some call it justification, I call it a search for a true reason. The crusaders of the 11-13 century weren't worse people, they were ignorant and hungry people who were easily controlled by the stories that the king and the church told them. Much of the same goes on now.

[endrity]

Agreed. I think that has less to do with the opinion of the general public in America than it does with the "establishment" folks who run Washington and have ties to certain groups.

America (as a country) would have a lot less problems in the world if it weren't for Israel and Palestine, but it is what it is. There is no real black or white answer for who is right and who is wrong in the conflict and people who have no vested intrest in the region have a hard time relating to either side. What can you do?

Preach it man!

That establishment though has a long history of manipulating what a large, and rather uninformed US public thinks about a lot of issues.

p.s when I say uninformed, please don't missunderstand it as some way of saying the same "ignorant American" that KBP says. I don't think most Greeks would know much about the 60s political realignement in the US or something similiar. People care about the things that worry them in their every day life, and if they have sometime watch some TV, that's how it is.

[SmellyFeet]

Might makes right. That's all there's to it. I'm a jew, but I'm gonna give my 2 cents anyway, and if you really read my opinion, you'll realize i'm not biased at all:

Israel is not going anywhere. The arabs and muslims around the world have to realize that for any chance in the future.

The Palestinians aren't going anywhere. For the most part, Israel realizes that.

The Palestinians shoot rockets at Israel. The Israelis kill Palestinian. Doesn't matter who started this cycle, point is it's hard to stop at this point.

I supported withdrawal from territories, but what has it brought? a few extra miles from which the palestinians can shoot rockets.

Honestly, I don't know how to solve the problem, and you know what? neither do you.

P.S Spurs suck!

[Bob Lanier]

I have to say, this is KBP's most impressive troll yet by far.

And he does it by riffing off his own resentments about the Ottoman Empire, too.

:tu

[YellowFever]

Boiling it down to the lowest level, yes I do believe in power.
Power is the only thing that keeps America where it is today.

If you cross out all the political, make peace not war, United Nations crap, power is the only thing that matters in this world and it will be as long as humans rule this planet.

Sound pessimistic, I know, but it's the truth.

you should see me make a case for Palestine...LoL.
I can also do that. :blah

All I'm saying is that Israel and Arabs are both to blame for the mess in that part of the world.
I think the Arabs are exacerbating the problem further with their actions.

And there are too many people who think Israel is to blame just because they are more powerful.

I guess it's the old "Sympathy for David if David has to fight Goliath" syndrome that most people feel.

They never ask themselves if David is the one that picked a fight with Goliath in the first place.

[endrity]

Might makes right. That's all there's to it. I'm a jew, but I'm gonna give my 2 cents anyway, and if you really read my opinion, you'll realize i'm not biased at all:

Israel is not going anywhere. The arabs and muslims around the world have to realize that for any chance in the future.

The Palestinians aren't going anywhere. For the most part, Israel realizes that.

The Palestinians shoot rockets at Israel. The Israelis kill Palestinian. Doesn't matter who started this cycle, point is it's hard to stop at this point.

I supported withdrawal from territories, but what has it brought? a few extra miles from which the palestinians can shoot rockets.

Honestly, I don't know how to solve the problem, and you know what? neither do you.

P.S Spurs suck!

:toast

There isn't anything there I disagree with, it's an f'ed up issue no doubt. I don't blame only Israel, I get mad when especially in the US no one does that at all and it's always the Arabs fault.

[Indazone]

Yeah, when they're up against Armenian refugees, Jewish basketball players, and Cypriot Greek civilians, they're real badasses. Against everyone else, not so much.


Greek and Turkey kinda don't like each other. They have fought each other from 1919-1921 and latest in 1974. Historically, they have fought since 1071

1-Battle of Manzikert 1071 (Between Byzantines and Seljuks) winner side: TURKS
2-Battle of Miryakefelon 1176 (Between Byzantines and Seljuks) winner side :Turks
3-Battle of Sinope and Trebizond 1214 ( Between Byzantines and Selcuks ) winner side :Turks
4- Battle of Attalia 1207 ( Beetween Byzantines and Seljuks of rum sultanate)winner side : Turks
5-Battle of Nicopolidis 1331 (Between Byzantines and Ottomans )winner side Turks
6- Battle of Prusa 1331 ( Between Byzantines and Ottomans ) winner side : Turks
7- Siege of Constantinapole 1453 ( Byzantines and Ottomans) winner side: Turks
8-Capture of More 1453- 1501 ( Prince of Akha,Duke of Athens vs Ottomans) winner side :Turks

9-1821 March 25 Greek National Uprsing winner side : Greeks

10-Battle of Navorine : Ottoman fleet destroyed by Russians. independence of Greek islands.
11,First Balkan War greek ottomans ) winner side : greece 1912 1913
12-Greek Expansion towords Anatolia and Turkish Independence war :
a) Battle of Inonu 1921 ,winner side: Turks
b) Battle of Second Inonu 1921 ,winner side : Turks
c) Battle of Sakarya 1921 ,winner side Turks
d) Battle of Dumlipanar 1922 ,winner side Turks

13- Cyprus War 1974 ( Greek-Cyprot vs Turkey ) winner side : Turks

If you look at the wars since 1913, the Greeks have had their asses handed to them. It's no wonder they want no part of Turkey.

[Obstructed_View]

The Israelis? Yeah, I think so too.

A large number of Israelis are muslims so you're acutally right despite your complete ignorance.

[balli]

A large number of Israelis are muslims so you're acutally right despite your complete ignorance.
:lol

[m33p0]

Greek and Turkey kinda don't like each other.
that's an understatement.

[SpursIndonesia]

endrity, you have my respect regarding this matter -though the Mavs still sucks. :)

It's very hard to find a common ground, a slight chance for peace to success, when the moderates get dominated by the radicals on the both side of people. And it doesn't help, when the unbalanced medias from both side keep fanning the hatred and warmongering around the globe, it's just sad. Yeah, having the power doesn't make you right, but not having the power doesn't make you entitled for getting radical and not using logics to end the conflict. This is madness, and the rest of the world is watchin haplessly.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

This is going to be long.....





Listen Greek boy, I'm getting sick and tired of you whining about "American idiots" and "American fools" and the like. Worry about your own messed up country and maybe your country can once again gain some respect around the world.



You name me three stories from FOX where the news was skewed beyond what the people at MSNBC, CNN SKYNEWS, REUTERS, AP, BBC, etc etc reported. And please don't copy/paste any articles from left leaning websites. You seem know quite a bit about global politics, I'd be dissapointed if you copy/paste articles from Salon and the like.
And whose to say the news Americans receive are any less accurate or balanced than the news that Europe gets? I've seen enough news from those places and trust me, it's not even funny as to how anti-american they are (and I'm not american..you can't acccuse me of being biased about this)



Why will this be joyous?




The Israelites were living on that land just as long as Syrians, Iraqis, Iranians, and other arabs. And of course they did not like it. If a group of people were to gain enough political clout as to stand up and say this land is now ours, the other people won't like it. Does it mean it's not the Israelite's land? They have a much stronger case for that land than americans did for the United States.



Arabs fault. It was stupid of them to attacked Israel one day after Israel became "legit" in the eyes of the world. It was the arabs that forsake politics and attacked, and it was the arabs that got their collextive asses kicked to the point where the Jews were able to expand (war bootie, you might say...everybody does it)




Yes, this is a problem but in the real world, sorry to say, might makes right. Did the Native Americans throw a hissy fit when Colonial Americans started to build on their "sacred" burial sites? Yes they did. Did Colonial Americans care? No they didn't.




Was there EVER a country called Palestine?
No.
It describes a region of land and the people that lived on it. You might even say Israelites can technically call themselves "Palestinians" as well. And those people were living in refugee camps even when that land was under arab control. Don't give the people the wrong impressions and say refugee camps sprang up when the Jews took over that land (made entirely possible, as I said before, because the arabs attacked Israel first)



No there is not ALWAYS a reason. You're making excuses for those extremists. Other people around the world suffered just as much injustices (and much worse) than these people perceived they have. Most of them don't blow themselves up in shopping malls with hundreds of people around. I could give you my theories but that would take too long here.



Idiot, Turkey is a major military power regionally.



And you are another typical Euro-educated idiot. Turkey and Israel are strong military powers (hard to say who would win if they go head to head) but they both have no power projection capability whatsoever. In other words, it would be stupid for one country to attacked the other. Logistics would guarantee whoever attacks will lose, without a major backing from a global power (namely the US and to a lesser degree, Englands or Russia)



There were a godly amount of Jews already on the land that ultimately became known as Israel. Granted more and more jews migrated after it became an "offical" country but it wasn't a matter of the allies saying "hey, this place is good to dump jews so let's do it and screw the people living on it."

Just because the Jews were able to gain political power, and actually build that piece of rathole into a viable piece of land doesn't mean they are at fault. That's the way most countries in the world were started.
Hell, maybe if the arabs and the "palestinians" stopped the occasional insult and "death to jews" chants and started to work with Israel, maybe they too can enjoy the standard of living alot of arabs in Israel are enjoying.



Turkey is smart, Greek boy.
At least on the government level they enjoy a very good diplomatic relationship with the Jews. It's very common for Turkey to buy Israel military equipment becuase the jews also give them technology transfers that come with buying military equipment.

And why do you think Turkey has such a good military? You think they made it themselves? Their land is strategically very important. It will be important for NATO to use their land in any engagements with Russia or any country in the Middle East. They are where they are militarily because NATO needs them to be strong and is helping them accordingly.

You is nothing but an arrogant ass.:rolleyes

[SmellyFeet]

Turks>greek. Butt fuck ugly greeks.

[YellowFever]

You is nothing but an arrogant ass.:rolleyes

That's what my dad told me.

but I is not like you...which are good thing.

[DANILO DRASKOVIC]

After a delay due to on court disturbances before the game (linked to Israeli agression on Gaza), the Turk Telekom vs Bnei Hasharon game was not played due to Bneis refusal to play despite clearing the arena of fans. The situation will be reviewed by the disciplinary judge to give the final ruling. Under league rules the refusal to play a game by a team can be sanctioned and the game can be given to the opposing team 20-0

[ChumpDumper]

Why is anyone acting like this means war between Turkey and Israel?

[sook]

no country outside the US likes israel they have been carrying out systematic genocide for quite some time, its time to wake up people.

F-16s in response to Kat. rockets is so fucking funny.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The Turks are just lucky this wasn't a real war where Israel had time to mobilize its troops. Israel could blow those ragheads to oblivion if the world wasn't so focused on being politically correct. It's time you treat the animals like animals. The Turks acted like animals in this situation, the same animals that attacked America on September 11th.

Dude that's wrong on so many levels, come on!

[sook]

This is going to be long.....





Listen Greek boy, I'm getting sick and tired of you whining about "American idiots" and "American fools" and the like. Worry about your own messed up country and maybe your country can once again gain some respect around the world.



You name me three stories from FOX where the news was skewed beyond what the people at MSNBC, CNN SKYNEWS, REUTERS, AP, BBC, etc etc reported. And please don't copy/paste any articles from left leaning websites. You seem know quite a bit about global politics, I'd be dissapointed if you copy/paste articles from Salon and the like.
And whose to say the news Americans receive are any less accurate or balanced than the news that Europe gets? I've seen enough news from those places and trust me, it's not even funny as to how anti-american they are (and I'm not american..you can't acccuse me of being biased about this)



Why will this be joyous?




The Israelites were living on that land just as long as Syrians, Iraqis, Iranians, and other arabs. And of course they did not like it. If a group of people were to gain enough political clout as to stand up and say this land is now ours, the other people won't like it. Does it mean it's not the Israelite's land? They have a much stronger case for that land than americans did for the United States.



Arabs fault. It was stupid of them to attacked Israel one day after Israel became "legit" in the eyes of the world. It was the arabs that forsake politics and attacked, and it was the arabs that got their collextive asses kicked to the point where the Jews were able to expand (war bootie, you might say...everybody does it)




Yes, this is a problem but in the real world, sorry to say, might makes right. Did the Native Americans throw a hissy fit when Colonial Americans started to build on their "sacred" burial sites? Yes they did. Did Colonial Americans care? No they didn't.




Was there EVER a country called Palestine?
No.
It describes a region of land and the people that lived on it. You might even say Israelites can technically call themselves "Palestinians" as well. And those people were living in refugee camps even when that land was under arab control. Don't give the people the wrong impressions and say refugee camps sprang up when the Jews took over that land (made entirely possible, as I said before, because the arabs attacked Israel first)



No there is not ALWAYS a reason. You're making excuses for those extremists. Other people around the world suffered just as much injustices (and much worse) than these people perceived they have. Most of them don't blow themselves up in shopping malls with hundreds of people around. I could give you my theories but that would take too long here.



Idiot, Turkey is a major military power regionally.



And you are another typical Euro-educated idiot. Turkey and Israel are strong military powers (hard to say who would win if they go head to head) but they both have no power projection capability whatsoever. In other words, it would be stupid for one country to attacked the other. Logistics would guarantee whoever attacks will lose, without a major backing from a global power (namely the US and to a lesser degree, Englands or Russia)



There were a godly amount of Jews already on the land that ultimately became known as Israel. Granted more and more jews migrated after it became an "offical" country but it wasn't a matter of the allies saying "hey, this place is good to dump jews so let's do it and screw the people living on it."

Just because the Jews were able to gain political power, and actually build that piece of rathole into a viable piece of land doesn't mean they are at fault. That's the way most countries in the world were started.
Hell, maybe if the arabs and the "palestinians" stopped the occasional insult and "death to jews" chants and started to work with Israel, maybe they too can enjoy the standard of living alot of arabs in Israel are enjoying.



Turkey is smart, Greek boy.
At least on the government level they enjoy a very good diplomatic relationship with the Jews. It's very common for Turkey to buy Israel military equipment becuase the jews also give them technology transfers that come with buying military equipment.

And why do you think Turkey has such a good military? You think they made it themselves? Their land is strategically very important. It will be important for NATO to use their land in any engagements with Russia or any country in the Middle East. They are where they are militarily because NATO needs them to be strong and is helping them accordingly.

How do you think that such a small country such as Israel has such a strong military?

Let me guess...they are a major industrial power....

Wait....they are sitting on gold or oil...

Don't make a moronic statement saying that Turkey gets all their shit from NATO when we are give billions of dollars and military equipment to our local beggar known as Israel.

We spoonfeed those bastards all that crap for free. So don't act like Israel did anything to deserve it.

[sook]

Greek and Turkey kinda don't like each other. They have fought each other from 1919-1921 and latest in 1974. Historically, they have fought since 1071

1-Battle of Manzikert 1071 (Between Byzantines and Seljuks) winner side: TURKS
2-Battle of Miryakefelon 1176 (Between Byzantines and Seljuks) winner side :Turks
3-Battle of Sinope and Trebizond 1214 ( Between Byzantines and Selcuks ) winner side :Turks
4- Battle of Attalia 1207 ( Beetween Byzantines and Seljuks of rum sultanate)winner side : Turks
5-Battle of Nicopolidis 1331 (Between Byzantines and Ottomans )winner side Turks
6- Battle of Prusa 1331 ( Between Byzantines and Ottomans ) winner side : Turks
7- Siege of Constantinapole 1453 ( Byzantines and Ottomans) winner side: Turks
8-Capture of More 1453- 1501 ( Prince of Akha,Duke of Athens vs Ottomans) winner side :Turks

9-1821 March 25 Greek National Uprsing winner side : Greeks

10-Battle of Navorine : Ottoman fleet destroyed by Russians. independence of Greek islands.
11,First Balkan War greek ottomans ) winner side : greece 1912 1913
12-Greek Expansion towords Anatolia and Turkish Independence war :
a) Battle of Inonu 1921 ,winner side: Turks
b) Battle of Second Inonu 1921 ,winner side : Turks
c) Battle of Sakarya 1921 ,winner side Turks
d) Battle of Dumlipanar 1922 ,winner side Turks

13- Cyprus War 1974 ( Greek-Cyprot vs Turkey ) winner side : Turks

If you look at the wars since 1913, the Greeks have had their asses handed to them. It's no wonder they want no part of Turkey.

Not just that, and this isn't a Hyperbole.

If a Greek sees a turkish person even today, he'll spit on him/her. Saw it on the travel channel or something, a lot of animosity.

[Obstructed_View]

no country outside the US likes israel they have been carrying out systematic genocide for quite some time, its time to wake up people.

F-16s in response to Kat. rockets is so fucking funny.

Who exactly have Israel been conducting genocide against? The "Palestinians" have been in the same fucking place for over 50 years, and what was 350,000 people in 1950 is claimed to be about four million today. If that's genocide, it's the worst job of it in recorded history.

[sook]

Who exactly have Israel been conducting genocide against? The "Palestinians" have been in the same fucking place for over 50 years, and what was 350,000 people in 1950 is claimed to be about four million today. If that's genocide, it's the worst job of it in recorded history.

Isn't that the beauty of it though? Through thoroughly filtering the media and allowing certain stories to go through we can never really perceive whats going on. If Israel bombs a hospital they tell the rest of the world a suspected terrorist was hiding there, will we ever know though? Can you find any justification in bombing 3 U.N Run schools being used as refugee camps?

[Brazil]

wow this thread is going nowhere

[ForeignFan]

Almost everybody seem to forget that both Turkey and Israël are backed by the US, which sells them military equipment, and that Turkey is probably the Muslim country with the best ties with Israël... at least on a diplomatic / governmental level.

So pplllllllleaase stop this stupid discussion about a military conflict between these two countries.

[diego]

this is going to come off as anti-israel, but i dont feel that way at all, and I know many more israelis than i do palestinians. i don't want to fall into the trap of jew vs muslim, when historically it is possible for the two religions to coexist peacefully.

but my feeling on the subject is:

-the creation of israel was completely unprecedented and cannot be compared to other colonial/imperial conquest
-they chose that land
-they established themselves as the military and economic power in the region
-it is their responsibility. and seeing as they were practically created by the UN, they should respect the UN's basic tenets regarding war and diplomacy.

i dont mind the US supporting the Israel military, but it does bother me that the US can prevent the UN from pacifying the conflict. had this been ecuador retaliating against colombia (colombia recently bombed colombian guerrillas operating on ecuador soil) the UN and the US would have been all over ecuador to nip it in the bud.

israel's arab neighbors arent innocent. that's not what i'm trying to say. but i feel that a) they didnt create the problem and b) they dont have the power to solve the problem.

they are doing a splendid job of prolonging it however.

and it is depressing to read these threads and find complete and utter BS like someone blaming turkey for 9/11

[Kori Ellis]

There's a political forum here for these discussions: http://spurstalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8

Thanks.