Andrew Bynum is playing worse this year than last [Archive]

SpursDynasty

01-08-2009, 09:59 PM

DUNCANownsKOBE2

01-08-2009, 10:05 PM

He and Phil are ready to kill each other because Phil wants him to focus on defense and rebounding and he wants to score. He'll thank Phil Jackson a few years down the road when he grows up. So far, however, that contract looks AWFULLY hefty for 11 8.

Trainwreck2100

01-08-2009, 10:08 PM

ANDREW MOTHERFUCKlNG BYNUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

21_Blessings

01-08-2009, 10:10 PM

28-6

xtremesteven33

01-08-2009, 10:14 PM

Id take Bynum on the Spurs in a second.

those stats would be perfect for the Spurs right now

peskypesky

01-08-2009, 11:03 PM

Bynum is doing fine. His numbers are respectable, especially considering how many scorers and good big men there are on his team. You can't judge a player's season solely by his personal stats.

peskypesky

01-08-2009, 11:09 PM

Manu Ginobili: 2009 ppg. 14.4

Manu: 2008 ppg. 19.5

WOW, hes getting old o that ankle is still hurting.

you better hope it's hurting in the playoffs...otherwise, Lakers are toast.

SmellyFeet

01-08-2009, 11:20 PM

you better hope it's hurting in the playoffs...otherwise, Lakers are toast.

4-1.

BlackSwordsMan

01-08-2009, 11:22 PM

4-1.

This thread isn't about last year's playoffs.

peskypesky

01-08-2009, 11:22 PM

4-1.

Like I said, you better hope his ankle is hurting if you want any chance of a similar result.

SmellyFeet

01-08-2009, 11:22 PM

This thread isn't about last year's playoffs.

Andrew bynum is just shooting some shots, blocking some blocks, rebounding some rebounds, nothing personal against him.

SmellyFeet

01-08-2009, 11:23 PM

Like I said, you better hope his ankle is hurting if you want any chance of a similar result.

:lol

Lakers_55

01-08-2009, 11:53 PM

Amuseddaysleeper

01-08-2009, 11:58 PM

Buss is willing to pay luxury tax to keep this Laker team together. How many teams are willing to do that?

Definitely not the Spurs

http://clutchfans.net/images/luis_scola21.jpg

baseline bum

01-09-2009, 12:10 AM

28-6

:jack

I thought he was going to be averaging 34-12 in a couple of seasons? 28-6 sounds like an understatement from the Church of Bynum.

DAF86

01-09-2009, 12:11 AM

His numbers are fine for a role player, the problem is that the media and lakers fans were "hyping" him so hard that one expected a "Kareem Abdul Jabbar" kind of production.

dbreiden83080

01-09-2009, 12:16 AM

This must be a mistake. Bynum was supposed to be outplaying Tim Duncan by this time this season. I know it.. I mean every Laker Nut-Hugger on Spurs-Talk told me so last year.. :lol

Rockhound

01-09-2009, 12:18 AM

You KNOW Kareem is pissed on the sideline thinking "70 million for this bullshit????"

dbreiden83080

01-09-2009, 12:22 AM

4-1.

Yeah the one loss was a beating, when Manu showed up.. When he's going good he is their 2nd best player. In all the losses last year, Manu didn't even show up.. No team can overcome their 2nd best player contributing next to nothing in a playoff series against another elite team..

DUNCANownsKOBE2

01-09-2009, 12:25 AM

Buss is willing to pay luxury tax to keep this Laker team together. How many teams are willing to do that?

not the Suns

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/LuolDeng_295_040624.jpg
http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/thumb/0/00/Joe_Johnson_new_Jersey.jpg/300px-Joe_Johnson_new_Jersey.jpg
http://sports.tom.com/uimg/2006/9/19/wangtao/Rajon-Rondo-01_45957.jpg
http://www.as.com/recorte/20080123dasdasbal_11/C280/Ies/20080123dasdasbal_11.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02cv32O5qZe80/610x.jpg
http://z.about.com/d/sanantonio/1/7/W/O/-/-/kurt-thomas.jpg

MarHill

01-09-2009, 12:34 AM

Massive fail....Bynum doesn't have to have great stats. His role is being fulfilled perfectly:

Two bigs on the floor at all times during close games between him, Pau, and Lamar. This is why Odom went to the bench. Provide some defense, which he does including altering shots. Those don't show up in the box scores. He is on the front end of his contract, some consider him a not worth it now, he may be a steal before it's over. Buss is willing to pay luxury tax to keep this Laker team together. How many teams are willing to do that?

By the way, thanks for the jinx!

Actually I have to disagree. I don't think he's fully recovered from that injury yet. That is the same injury that Amare had and it takes a full year after surgery to recover.

Moreover, while him being in lineup does move Gasol to his natural position of PF.....Bynum hasn't been that great of a presence. Outside of last night's game where he got 18/11 against the GSW (who doesn't have any good frontline players except Biedrins...). His stats in the lst 10 games have been okay at best.

And after last season before he got injured..the media was hyping him as the next great Laker center after Wilt, Kareem, and Shaq.

He's athletic and has some skills....but he's still has a ways to go before we put him in that class I just mentioned above!!

cobbler

01-09-2009, 12:35 AM

Everyone is talking about what impact Bynum will have this season. He played 35 games last season, and 34 games into this season his numbers don't even match last year's.

Last year 35 games:

Points per game: 13.1
Rebounds per game: 10.2
Blocks per game: 2.1
Field goal percentage: 63.6%

This season 34 games in:

Points per game: 11.9
Rebounds per game: 8.3
Blocks per game: 1.8
Field goal percentage: 53%

So yeah, I don't know about this kid..seems like a bit of a bust to me considering the high expectations for him this year by the media. He isn't even playing at the end of games. I myself am not surprised, this is about what we should expect out of Andrew Bynum. He probably shouldn't be called a bust, because a bust is when you're expected to be great and have an impact. Andrew Bynum was never expected to be great or have an impact. And he isn't great, nor having an impact.

This has to be one of the most ignorant posts ever on SpursTalk. He's down a point a game and 2 rebounds? OMG... send him packing.

Did you ever think to consider that Gasol wasnt on the team last year? He is 21 years old. Comming off a major inury and adjusting to a new role playing alongside another 7 footer. He will only get better. He has played at the end of some games and not others. Many times it depends on the matchups. As the season moves along you will see more of him in crunch time. Is he a superstar savior? No. Can he become a very good player... we shall see. His roll is to clog up the paint and alter shots. Any offense he provides is just icing on the cake. If you don't think he makes a difference, you didn't watch the Boston game on xmas day. Last year if anyone got by their man it was a wide open lane to the basket. Now you have drew their to alter shots. And thats not included in the stat sheet. He's doing fine. All he needs to do is find a little more consistancey and that will come with a little more time. Did you ever think that Gasol having the excellent year he is having has something to do with the fact that the opposing bim man has to deal with Drew rather than him? Hmmmm

Anyone who expected him to come in and avg 25-15 with the talent and depth the Lakers have just doesn't know basketball. With that thought in mind... again, just another absurd post from the douche of SpursTalk. :lmao

Sigz

01-09-2009, 12:39 AM

I like Bynum.

JamStone

01-09-2009, 12:39 AM

MarHill

01-09-2009, 12:41 AM

This has to be one of the most ignorant posts ever on SpursTalk. He's down a point a game and 2 rebounds? OMG... send him packing.

Did you ever think to consider that Gasol wasnt on the team last year? He is 21 years old. Comming off a major inury and adjusting to a new role playing alongside another 7 footer. He will only get better. He has played at the end of some games and not others. Many times it depends on the matchups. As the season moves along you will see more of him in crunch time. Is he a superstar savior? No. Can he become a very good player... we shall see. His roll is to clog up the paint and alter shots. Any offense he provides is just icing on the cake. If you don't think he makes a difference, you didn't watch the Boston game on xmas day. Last year if anyone got by their man it was a wide open lane to the basket. Now you have drew their to alter shots. And thats not included in the stat sheet. He's doing fine. All he needs to do is find a little more consistancey and that will come with a little more time...

Anyone who expected him to come in and avg 25-15 with the talent and depth the Lakers have just doesn't know basketball. With that thought in mind... again, just another absurd post from douche of SpursTalk. :lmao

Cobbler,

He was hyped by the media and many Lakers fans as the next great LA center after he played well before his injury.

And at the beginning of this season...all the hype about him was that he's the missing piece that will put the Lakers over the top and win it all.

But...so far he's been okay and that's about it. I watched that Lakers-Celtics Christmas Day Game twice...to see how he played and again he has some skills but he hasn't been this dominant force that he was hyped to be.

I still think he's recovering from the injury and there is still a lot of seasoning he needs before he becomes the next great Laker center!!

:flag:

DUNCANownsKOBE2

01-09-2009, 12:43 AM

Those numbers actually aren't down as much as you might expect now that he isn't a primary scorer and Gasol is there to take away not only shot attempts but also some of the rebounds. His field goal % being down is the only thing that looks to be a problem compared to last year. And, it's not really a problem when it's still 53%.

Agreed, it's also bound to go up since Kareem and PJ are toying with his offensive game a little bit and making him focus on back to the basket play more often, which will pay off if it hasn't already.

Considering all that he had to change, Bynum is doing a decent job.

cobbler

01-09-2009, 12:49 AM

Actually I have to disagree. I don't think he's fully recovered from that injury yet. That is the same injury that Amare had and it takes a full year after surgery to recover.

Moreover, while him being in lineup does move Gasol to his natural position of PF.....Bynum hasn't been that great of a presence. Outside of last night's game where he got 18/11 against the GSW (who doesn't have any good frontline players except Biedrins...). His stats in the lst 10 games have been okay at best.

And after last season before he got injured..the media was hyping him as the next great Laker center after Wilt, Kareem, and Shaq.

He's athletic and has some skills....but he's still has a ways to go before we put him in that class I just mentioned above!!

I agree that i think hes not totally recovered from the injury. However, it's not physical, it's mental. It was not the same injury as Amare. Amare had microfracture surgery. Drew was scoped. But if you watch the games you can see he's not yet exploding to the basket when in a crowd. At times he will but only when semi clear of opposition. He got hurt comming down on another players foot. It's clearly in his head. He will get over it. If you remember last year, his first 15-20 games were about how he is playing now. He began to excell the latter 20. This year, with the injury and adjustments to playing with Gasol etc.. its just taking a little longer. IMO

DUNCANownsKOBE2

01-09-2009, 12:51 AM

cobbler is right, completely different injuries. There are not supposed to be long term effects from Bynum's injury. C-Web, Penny, Allan Houston, and a few others all were never the same after micro-fracture surgery.

DazedAndConfused

01-09-2009, 02:25 AM

mystargtr34

01-09-2009, 02:26 AM

The next David Robinson.

Or was it a bigger stronger more athletic Tim Duncan?

Seriously though, Bynum is doing fine.

mathbzh

01-09-2009, 03:07 AM

After an injury and the addition of Gasol I think he is doing fine.

LEONARD

01-09-2009, 09:53 AM

This has to be one of the most ignorant posts ever on SpursTalk.

Cobbler, meet SpursDynasty... :lol

Double-Up

01-09-2009, 10:25 AM

It's pretty simple, Gasol wasn't there before and he had more opportunities to score and touch the ball. Now with Gasol he's needed more for defense and rebounding. Is it really THAT hard to understand? SpursDynasty you are a fucking moron.

MarHill

01-09-2009, 10:32 AM

Why are Spurs fans so obsessed with Andrew Bynum? Not even Laker fans devote this much attention to him.

The only people who were saying Bynum would score 20/10 this season were actually Spurs fans themselves misquoting what Laker fans were saying (which is that Bynum at his peak will probably average somewhere near 20/10).

He's going to need another season before he makes the jump IMHO. We all took for granted just how serious his injury was, even Amare needed some time before he was fully ready to play at a high level and he is a ridiculous athlete compared to Bynum.

Dazed and Confused,

The media told everyone that Bynum would be the next great Laker center and dominate the league before his injury. Also, he would the be missing piece for the Lakers to win it all this year.

Like I wrote in my earlier posts....that he's some skills and is athletic but I believe he still has recovered from that injury. And he's played okay.

I don't believe the Spurs fans aren't obsessed about him.....but when the hype machine (the media) goes on full blast about him that's why the Spurs fans are reacting to it!

:flag:

MarHill

01-09-2009, 10:34 AM

I agree that i think hes not totally recovered from the injury. However, it's not physical, it's mental. It was not the same injury as Amare. Amare had microfracture surgery. Drew was scoped. But if you watch the games you can see he's not yet exploding to the basket when in a crowd. At times he will but only when semi clear of opposition. He got hurt comming down on another players foot. It's clearly in his head. He will get over it. If you remember last year, his first 15-20 games were about how he is playing now. He began to excell the latter 20. This year, with the injury and adjustments to playing with Gasol etc.. its just taking a little longer. IMO

Cobbler,

You're right they were two different injuries. I thought they were the same. My fault!!

:flag:

Allanon

01-09-2009, 02:58 PM

My guess is Bynum's last game "18pts/11rbds/2blks" in 30 minutes is the beginning of a very nice run for Bynum.

I expect another very nice game for Bynum tonight since Odom is still out.

IronMexican

01-09-2009, 03:12 PM

It was the Warriors. I expect more 10/10 nights for Drew, which I don't mind.

YellowFever

01-09-2009, 05:47 PM

I don't mind his stats being down from last year because of the circumstances
(not being the 2nd option anymore, getting over the mental block having to overcome a season ending injury..etc..etc).

However, his mental toughness has been a huge dissapointment for me.
last year he go alot of his points from kobe penetrating and dishing for an easy alley-oop but this year kobe is not penetrating as much due to two huge bodies in the paint and the clogging up of the lane that does.

PJ wanted him to defend and rebound but obviously he wants something more from the offense than PJ is clearly willing to give him.

Don't complain about how you want more time at the end of games and how you want the ball more down low, just rebound and block shots and STFU.

If bynum avergaes 14 rebounds per game (which he is well capable of doing) I won't complain about the turn-around 15 footers he takes every so often.

As of right now, he is a dissapointment.

But I'm more dissapointed about his mental makeup rather than the numbers he puts up.

daslicer

01-09-2009, 08:22 PM

I think lakerfans are taking this thread to personal. Bynum is not a bust but neither is he a superstar like lakerfans were hyping up this summer. I can attest to this because I had arguments with several of them on here about Bynum being an allstar. I basically said during the summertime he will be a solid player that gets in the range of 11-13 points 7-10 reb, and 2 blocks but nothing more which he is doing right now. Like I said during the summertime I don't ever see this kid being a 20-10 elite bigman its just not going to happen for him. Those type of players are very rare in this league. At best I see him getting 18-9-3 in that range. On top of that he strikes me as a guy who does have high basketball IQ which will also hinder his chances to be super great. Lakers basically got a bigman who is more in the mold of a Kevin Duckworth type of player then ever being the league of a Shaq,Duncan,Dream and I would say even Alonzo.

Allanon

01-10-2009, 01:15 AM

Bynum with 20 points on 80% shooting in 30 minutes. I think he's a faster, stronger and more fundamental Tim Duncan.

daslicer

01-10-2009, 02:35 AM

Bynum with 20 points on 80% shooting in 30 minutes. I think he's a faster, stronger and more fundamental Tim Duncan.

He did it against a bad team and its appearnet that you have been smoking some weed. When he wins 2 regular season mvps, 3 finals mvps, 4 titles and makes All-nba and all nba defensive first teams 10 times, along with going to the all-star game 10 times soon to be 11 then we will compare Bynum. Duncan at Bynum's age was already an all-star along with with being on all-nba first team plus the defensive first team. You are the best definition of a myopian. Bynum has a long way to go before he is ever compared to Duncan. The only players Bynum should be compared to right now is Oden,Hibbert, etc.

Allanon

01-10-2009, 02:58 PM

The Heat beat the Lakers about a month ago and they're a pretty decent team.

If Odom is out again versus the Heat, I think Bynum will have another 20 point night on Sunday. Maybe even 25-30 points if he can get 40 minutes.

DUNCANownsKOBE2

01-10-2009, 03:03 PM

Bynum with 20 points on 80% shooting in 30 minutes. I think he's a faster, stronger and more fundamental Tim Duncan.

:lmao

I wasn't aware Tim Duncan cries when his coach benches him.

Lakers_55

01-10-2009, 03:09 PM

dirk4mvp

01-10-2009, 03:30 PM

Bynum with 20 points on 80% shooting in 30 minutes. I think he's a faster, stronger and more fundamental Tim Duncan.

So he's going to be a better player than Duncan?

SmellyFeet

01-10-2009, 03:32 PM

So he's going to be a better player than Duncan?

you should realize by now that "70 wins, biatch!!" is trolling.

cobbler

01-10-2009, 04:42 PM

My one gripe with Bynum is his expression. He sometimes looks like he is stoned, and not paying attention. He may need acting coach to teach him how to look focused. That could improve his game if he lives up to his look. Doesn't have to look mean, just involved with what he's doing.

Any thoughts on this?

It's just his demeanor. I know what your saying. It "appears" to be a cavalier attitude. I wouldn't put too much importance on it. The same was said of Robet Parish and Kareem in their days. By all reports you hear, he has developed a good work ethic. He is going to be fine an develop into a good player. Living up to inflated expectations by the media and myopic fans is a whole other issue.

peskypesky

01-10-2009, 06:37 PM

Yeah the one loss was a beating, when Manu showed up.. When he's going good he is their 2nd best player. In all the losses last year, Manu didn't even show up.. No team can overcome their 2nd best player contributing next to nothing in a playoff series against another elite team..

Is it that Manu didn't show up...or was it that his ankle was fucked up?

Allanon

01-10-2009, 06:46 PM

you should realize by now that "70 wins, biatch!!" is trolling.

This smelly guy knows me best.

This must be a mistake. Bynum was supposed to be outplaying Tim Duncan by this time this season. I know it.. I mean every Laker Nut-Hugger on Spurs-Talk told me so last year.. :lol

Kobe™

01-10-2009, 07:25 PM

Another wack thread
-_-

RuffnReadyOzStyle

01-11-2009, 07:07 AM

Bynum is doing fine. His numbers are respectable, especially considering how many scorers and good big men there are on his team. You can't judge a player's season solely by his personal stats.

Agreed, but from what I've seen Bynum's problem, and he does have a problem, is his attitude. I have little doubt the kid (yes, he's 21 folks) will develop into a very good to excellent NBA player - he certainly has the physical attributes - but right now he's whining, only plays hard in spurts, and is under the misaprehension that he's better than he actually is - he's got a big head. He'll grow out of it, but I don't see that happening this season, and that means some trouble for the Lakers as the extra intensity of the playoffs might find him wanting...

Allanon

01-11-2009, 02:22 PM

Agreed, but from what I've seen Bynum's problem, and he does have a problem, is his attitude. I have little doubt the kid (yes, he's 21 folks) will develop into a very good to excellent NBA player - he certainly has the physical attributes - but right now he's whining, only plays hard in spurts, and is under the misaprehension that he's better than he actually is - he's got a big head. He'll grow out of it, but I don't see that happening this season,

I approve of this message...except for the last part.

and that means some trouble for the Lakers as the extra intensity of the playoffs might find him wanting...

Lakers just need him to be there and be somewhat effective. For now, Odom and Pau are used much more by the Lakers this year. Pretty much shows when either Odom or Pau are out, Bynum plays better because he becomes more of a focus on offense.

It's almost like the Lakers are holding Bynum in their back pocket for now...they still don't run many plays for him, unless one of the other big guys are out.

pauls931

01-11-2009, 02:48 PM

Late to the game, but he didn't have to share bandwidth with Gasol last year right?

Allanon

01-11-2009, 06:41 PM

Late to the game, but he didn't have to share bandwidth with Gasol last year right?

His bandwith didn't have to be shared with BOTH Gasol and Odom. He does alright with just Pau or just Odom, but not both.

If Odom's out again tonight, I think Bynum will have a good night.

sedale threatt

01-11-2009, 11:36 PM

bynum is going to go for thirty against the great udonis haslem--sorry, haters.

Hemotivo

01-11-2009, 11:55 PM

nice tip-in

Allanon

01-12-2009, 03:30 AM

Not quite 30 but 24 points in 37 minutes for Bynum ain't bad.

His numbers will probably drop back to ~13 when Odom comes back against the Rockets or Spurs. If Odom isn't back by the Rockets game, Bynum will get around 20 or so against Yao.

Like I've said, give Bynum some touches/minutes and he'll put the ball in the basket at a 60% FG clip.

Kobe™

01-12-2009, 03:31 AM

I knew he'd pick it up.

Kori Ellis

01-12-2009, 03:37 AM

Spurs fans that are knocking Bynum should take a look at the Spurs frontline :lol

Any Spurs fan would jizz on themselves if they ever saw Bynum in a Spurs uniform.

Lakers999

01-12-2009, 03:52 AM

Spurs fans that are knocking Bynum should take a look at the Spurs frontline :lol

Any Spurs fan would jizz on themselves if they ever saw Bynum in a Spurs uniform.

i think thats what they really want but afraid to admit it.... i hope the lakers murder the spurs wednesday...

TheMACHINE

01-12-2009, 07:41 PM

Bynum's getting ready for Yao and Duncan..........

ElNono

01-12-2009, 09:21 PM

Spurs fans that are knocking Bynum should take a look at the Spurs frontline :lol

Any Spurs fan would jizz on themselves if they ever saw Bynum in a Spurs uniform.

To be honest, I'm not sure Pop would keep him around for long. The guys looks lazy at times, and he probably has the most defensive fuckups in the entire Lakers team. I would definitely take his rebounding.

peskypesky

01-12-2009, 09:38 PM

Spurs fans that are knocking Bynum should take a look at the Spurs frontline :lol

Any Spurs fan would jizz on themselves if they ever saw Bynum in a Spurs uniform.

Such language, Kori!

And I have to disagree with you. I don't think Bynum is THAT good. He's good, but he's not jizz-worthy.

turiaf for president

01-12-2009, 09:59 PM

i think compared to bonner or whoever they put next to duncan, bynum IS jizz worthy

Allanon

01-22-2009, 01:57 AM

42 points, 15 rebounds, 3 blocks.

71% shooting in 36 minutes.

Playing against great bigs like Howard, Duncan, Yao is quickly making Bynum a better player.

It won't be long before the Bynum/David Robinson comparisons start up.

024

01-22-2009, 02:22 AM

It won't be long before the Bynum/David Robinson comparisons start up.

you're not serious right? granted this was a good game for bynum but he was playing against a crappy rookie picked in the second round and a 6'9 scrub in skinner. both kaman and camby were out during this game. bynum has yet to show a consistent jump shot or even a consistent turn around hook shot. he might get there eventually but for now your comparison is funny.

21_Blessings

01-22-2009, 02:30 AM

you're not serious right? granted this was a good game for bynum but he was playing against a crappy rookie picked in the second round and a 6'9 scrub in skinner. both kaman and camby were out during this game. bynum has yet to show a consistent jump shot or even a consistent turn around hook shot. he might get there eventually but for now your comparison is funny.

Bynum completely owned Kaman last season. Camby's post-defense sucks shit.

Anyways 42 and 15 is 42 and 15.

21 years old.

IronMexican

01-22-2009, 02:33 AM

42 points is 42 points. I certainly am not complaining.

024

01-22-2009, 02:37 AM

Allanon

01-22-2009, 02:43 AM

it's a good game for bynum. just for comparison, odom was 8-11 with 19 pts. give him the same number of touches and he would have ran all over the clipper scrubs the same way bynum did. notice i was just disputing the comparison between bynum and drob. it won't happen anytime soon. he's young, he has plenty of time to develop. until he starts averaging 20-10 stats for consecutive years, he's no drob. premature ejaculation from lakers fans like the kobe and jordan comparisons.

Not just The Admiral but Tim Duncan will be next on Bynum's list too.

The next David Robinson.

Or was it a bigger stronger more athletic Tim Duncan?

This must be a mistake. Bynum was supposed to be outplaying Tim Duncan by this time this season. I know it.. I mean every Laker Nut-Hugger on Spurs-Talk told me so last year.. :lol

Bynum with 20 points on 80% shooting in 30 minutes. I think he's a faster, stronger and more fundamental Tim Duncan.

024

01-22-2009, 02:51 AM

so you are joking.

mystargtr34

01-22-2009, 03:00 AM

Bynum dominated tonight. 42 points is 42 points. Gold Goatied Brian Skinner or not. Hes starting to look smoother and more explosive, and his numbers will probably start to go up. He still needs to rebound much better, but he looked damn good tonight finishing everything powerfully, and threw in some nice post moves.

Allanon

01-22-2009, 03:11 AM

so you are joking.

Of course I'm joking. :lol

Bynum's improving but he has a long way to go. He has the talent/size but he needs to show the desire to be the best. Until then, he's just another solid under-achiever.

phyzik

01-22-2009, 03:15 AM

mystargtr34

01-22-2009, 03:17 AM

Hes alot more than servicable. But hes no sure fire HOFer like most were saying.

Allanon

01-22-2009, 03:17 AM

Bynum is good but no where NEAR what your comon laker fan (incuding you Allanon) was claiming him to be last year. He is servicable, beyond servicable, but he is not the force you made him out to be.

I DARE you to deny what you said last year. Dont make me look it up...

I said last year that Bynum would be the best Center in the West by the end of the year. I think he's 2nd best to Yao right now. I still think he'll be better than Yao by the end of the year.

Shaq is still great but in limited minutes...maybe 15 minutes where he's still unstoppable. But over 40 minutes I think Bynum is better.

I said he might catch up to Dwight this year but I was definitely wrong on that...Dwight's on a different level right now.

And this is all with Bynum still just cashing paychecks. If he ever gets that desire to be great, I think he can do it. I just don't know if that's in him.

phyzik

01-22-2009, 03:20 AM

I said last year that Bynum would be the best Center in the West by the end of the year. I think he's 2nd best to Yao right now. I still think he'll be better than Yao by the end of the year.

I said he might catch up to Dwight this year but I was definitely wrong on that...Dwight's on a different level right now.

2nd to Yao :rollin

Man, your glasses must be super tinted in purple and gold. :lmao

Im not trying to start a fight but your delusional.

Allanon

01-22-2009, 03:21 AM

2nd to Yao :rollin

Man, your glasses must be super tinted in purple and gold. :lmao

Im not trying to start a fight but your delusional.

Who's better?

mystargtr34

01-22-2009, 03:21 AM

I said last year that Bynum would be the best Center in the West by the end of the year. I think he's 2nd best to Yao right now. I still think he'll be better than Yao by the end of the year.

I said he might catch up to Dwight this year but I was definitely wrong on that...Dwight's on a different level right now.

I think Jefferson is the second best C in the West. I think Shaq is still more productive aswell. Nene is also beasting this season, i think hes been a little more productive than Bynum and means more to his team.

Yao
Jefferson
Shaq
----------
Bynum
Nene

I think those top 3 are a cut above the rest.

Allanon

01-22-2009, 03:25 AM

I think Jefferson is the second best C in the West. I think Shaq is still more productive aswell. Nene is also beasting this season, i think hes been a little more productive than Bynum and means more to his team.

Yao
Jefferson
Shaq
----------
Bynum
Nene

I think those top 3 are a cut above the rest.

Al Jefferson is a very ineffective player. I think he's alot like Amare, great stats but not much influence on the game. Put Bynum on the Wolves and he'd get also get his 20 and 10. Neither Amare or Al play any defense either so the opposing Center usually scores as much or more. Bynum's defense is a level above both of them and can usually hold the opposing player (like against Duncan). Only one that killed Bynum so far was Dwight.

Shaq is simply unstoppable in spurts but his great moments are about 15 minutes per game. If you watch him play, he's just going through the motions the other 15 minutes.

phyzik

01-22-2009, 03:34 AM

Here's a few of your quotes from JUST the past 2 months about the "Great Bynum"

If the Lakers can go 15-0 in this stretch, I'll start cueing up the HOF'er talk for Bynum.

I always knew he had it in him

Not just The Admiral but Tim Duncan will be next on Bynum's list too.

Im not even going to waste my time looking up the stuff from 2007-2008, that stuff was just rediculous! :lol

Allanon

01-22-2009, 03:35 AM

Here's a few of your quotes from JUST the past 2 months about the "Great Bynum"

Im not even going to waste my time looking up the stuff from 2007-2008, that stuff was just rediculous!

They were pretty good :lol

phyzik

01-22-2009, 03:51 AM

Who's better?

efficniecy ratings from NBA.com

Dwight Howard + 27.08
Yau Ming + 23.34
David West + 19.78
Andrew Bynum + 16.77

And thats just a quick look, I didnt even research, just looked up who I thought was better.

Allanon

01-22-2009, 03:53 AM

Dwight Howard + 27.08
Yau Ming + 23.34
David West + 19.78
Andrew Bynum + 16.77

And thats just a quick look, I didnt even research, just looked up who I thought was better.

I agree on Dwight in the East and Yao in the West. Bynum is second to Yao in the West so we agree on this.

David West is a power forward.

KidCongo

01-22-2009, 03:55 AM

Jefferson is a better player than Bynum.

phyzik

01-22-2009, 03:56 AM

I agree on Dwight in the East and Yao in the West. Bynum is second to Yao in the West so we agree on this.

David West is a power forward.

True about David west, I screwed up on that one. :bang

Still, Andrew Bynum is not the force you make him out to be. I mean, come on, he is playing with Kobe and Gasol. Any center in the league with those 2 is going to put up some numbers.

Bynum is the same as Amare. Without the players they have around eachother they both would be mediocre at best.

Im not saying he sucks, hell I would take him on the Spurs any day of the week! Im just pointing out the fact that "laker fan" made him out to be some super center last year which he obviously is not.

He was an over-achiever those 3 months that he played last year, just like Bonner and Mason for the Spurs are most likely over-achieving with their 3-point game. I'd like to hope they can keep it up but I know reality.

Allanon

01-22-2009, 03:58 AM

Jefferson is a better player than Bynum.

Some people think this, I don't believe so.

Al Jefferson doesn't play defense. He gives up as many points as he makes.

Allanon

01-22-2009, 04:00 AM

Still, Andrew Bynum is not the force you make him out to be. I mean, come on, he is playing with Kobe and Gasol. Any center in the league with those 2 is going to put up some numbers.

This is certainly possible. There's alot of room left for improvement in Bynum.

I think this is what makes him a very good talent, he has not even come close to his potential whereas guys like Al Jefferson are pretty much at their peak.

I think Bynum is very good because of his potential. And yes, he has not realized that potential yet but he's been on a nice tear recently, much like Last January. I think we're going to see quite a bit of improvement in Bynum over the next 2 months as the Lakers switch more to an inside out game.

phyzik

01-22-2009, 04:05 AM

This is certainly possible. There's alot of room left for improvement in Bynum.

I think this is what makes him a very good talent, he has not even come close to his potential whereas guys like Al Jefferson are pretty much at their peak.

I think Bynum is very good because of his potential. And yes, he has not realized that potential yet but he's been on a nice tear recently, much like Last January. I think we're going to see quite a bit of improvement in Bynum over the next 2 months as the Lakers switch more to an inside out game.

I'd take the under on that bet any day of the week. Bynum is a good player but he is not going to be a Dwight Howard even playing with the current Lakers team. Your setting yourself up for dissapointment and ridding off of what you saw for only 3 months last season. He wont put those numbers up again, at least not consistently, garunteed.

21_Blessings

01-22-2009, 05:35 AM

I'd take the under on that bet any day of the week. Bynum is a good player but he is not going to be a Dwight Howard even playing with the current Lakers team. Your setting yourself up for dissapointment and ridding off of what you saw for only 3 months last season. He wont put those numbers up again, at least not consistently, garunteed.

Bynum already has a much better post game than Howard and is a superior post defender. No he's not going to be Howard but they're different players.

Build a team around Bynum and he's a 20/10 guy easily. If you weren't such a blatant retard you could see that. But the fact is he's playing on a stacked team sharing minutes with 2 other all-star caliber big men and Kobe Bryant.

Ghazi

01-22-2009, 05:40 AM

^ are you implying Lamar Odom is an all star caliber big man?

Ghazi

01-22-2009, 05:41 AM

21_Blessings

01-22-2009, 05:43 AM

^ are you implying Lamar Odom is an all star caliber big man?

When healthy and getting starting minutes he's borderline all-star.

But that's besides the point.

21_Blessings

01-22-2009, 05:48 AM

I do believe Bynum has more post skill than Howard. Howard is the better player based on athleticism alone. Regarding defense, Magic are 3rd in the league in defense whereas Lakers are 6th and Howard is their best defender.

Howard's a great shot blocker but Bynum plays better man defense. Just watch the last few matchups Bynum had against Duncan. He guards Timmy as good as anyone in the league. Where Howard dominates with his inhuman athleticism/quickness Bynum does the same with his ridiculous length/size.

Also, Bynum's holding opposing centers to lower FG% and lower PER in comparison to Howard.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08LAL14.HTM#bypos

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ORL14.HTM#bypos

Don't get me wrong though, I'd take Howard over Bynum if given the choice. But when Bynum's playing well he's easily the 2nd best center in the West right now and #1 defensively.

Ghazi

01-22-2009, 05:58 AM

hhmm, good stats, good stats.

IM SOLD

Indazone

01-22-2009, 09:53 AM

Dwight Howard always gets owned head to head against Yao. But he does have a better PER.

gmartin02

01-22-2009, 02:13 PM

Bynum is just starting to get his touch back on offense (just like he did this time last year, before he got injured)

shooting stats from Bynum's last 8 games:

Shooting %: .606 (66-109)
Points PG: 20.1
Free throw %: .674 (29-43 - not that bad for a young big man)

Remember, this guy is barely 21 years old (and has no college experience, and sat on Phil Jackson's bench his first year, averaging 7 minutes/game).

He still has a long way to develop - give the kid a break - I still regard Bynum as a "project with potential".

j-money24

01-22-2009, 02:14 PM

bynums 42 and 15 against a second round rookie does not make him the 2nd best center now.
hes 4th best center in my books
yao
shaq
jefferson
bynum

Allanon

01-22-2009, 02:22 PM

bynums 42 and 15 against a second round rookie does not make him the 2nd best center now.
hes 4th best center in my books
yao
shaq
jefferson
bynum

I can undestand the Shaq nod over Bynum, Shaq's unstoppable again this year. I just don't think he sustains his excellence more than 15 minutes per game.

I really don't get the love that Al Jefferson gets. He has good offense but his defense is friggin' terrible. Have you seen the opponent PER that 21_blessings put up?

Sure Al Jefferson has sexy numbers but he gives up just as much as he gets. Very ineffective.

Al Jefferson
http://www.82games.com/0809/08LAL14.HTM#bypos

Bynum
http://www.82games.com/0809/08LAL14.HTM#bypos

Indazone

01-22-2009, 02:23 PM

You forgot Dwight Howard and Emeka Okafor both who are better than Bynum

Allanon

01-22-2009, 02:26 PM

You forgot Dwight Howard and Emeka Okafor both who are better than Bynum

Dwight yes, but I think he's only listing West guys.

Okafur, no. Okafur is another ineffective Center who gives up points to other Centers.

Allanon

01-22-2009, 02:37 PM

And scanning those opponent PER numbers, Bynum has the lowest opponent PER of all the Centers so his defense is really up there.

It's his offense (mainly post position) that needs work. For the last several months, Bynum's been getting really poor positioning...too high. He would post up by the free throw line.

But over the last couple of weeks, you see him getting low post position consistently...his numbers are improving greatly because of this. I have a feeling Kareem's been putting in some extra work with Bynum.

z0sa

01-22-2009, 02:45 PM

Dwight yes, but I think he's only listing West guys.

Okafur, no. Okafur is another ineffective Center who gives up points to other Centers.

Okafor strikes me as one of the best defensive big men in the league ... though I thought he was more a power forward.

And Bynum is a good player, but will never be great. And that idiot saying he's a legit 20/10 when having a team built around him - :lmao. He gets something like 80% of his basket assisted. Look it up. Besides the fact if all the defensive pressure was on him and not Pau Gasol and Kobe, he would probably average <10ppg.

Showtime24 LAKERS

01-22-2009, 02:50 PM

z0sa

01-22-2009, 02:55 PM

Nobody not named Kobe has dropped 40+ since Shaq left. That tells you how special the performance was. His footwork looked great, he was patient, made good decisions and is developing a really nice touch, hustled down the court and grabbed rebounds and blocked shots.

For the record, Dwight's career high is 39.
Bynum's is 42 :p:

I'm sure if Dwight Howard had Kareem for 3+ years he would have a variety of post moves as well, considering Bynum also came straight out of high school. Bynum's did well the other night but only scores on mediocre defenders. He doesn't have a strong go to move yet for real post defenders.

IronMexican

01-22-2009, 02:58 PM

Drew's game wasn't nearly as polished as Dwight's entering the NBA.

Allanon

01-22-2009, 02:58 PM

Okafor strikes me as one of the best defensive big men in the league ... though I thought he was more a power forward.

Against power forwards, Okafur is pretty good on defense but he's just outmatched as a Center. He gives up points like freebies against Centers.

Unfortunately for him, the Bobcats really don't have a decent Center so he has to play Center.

We'll see how good Okafur is on defense on Tuesday, I'm pretty sure Bynum's gonna kill him.

z0sa

01-22-2009, 03:07 PM

Against power forwards, Okafur is pretty good on defense but he's just outmatched as a Center. He gives up points like freebies against Centers.

Unfortunately for him, the Bobcats really don't have a decent Center so he has to play Center.

We'll see how good Okafur is on defense on Tuesday, I'm pretty sure Bynum's gonna kill him.

Doubt it.

And :lol at Dwight Howard game being much more polished than Bynum's coming into the NBA. The guy still has NO go-to move, just like Bynum, but his team is great at getting him the ball in perfect position. When he came in the League he had nothing but his sheer athleticism, which is why come playoffs, Orlando suffers. They need people doubling Howard to be effective. If and WHEN those doubles do not come, Howard is going to have to play out of his mind to beat a team like Boston or Cleveland 4 out of 7.

To say he's polished even now is a joke, though he does have some semblance of a post game now.

IronMexican

01-22-2009, 03:09 PM

Bynum had nothing entering the NBA. Only thing he had going for him was being 7'.

z0sa

01-22-2009, 03:11 PM

Bynum had nothing entering the NBA. Only thing he had going for him was being 7'.

You can pretty much say the same for Dwight Howard, just much much more potential athletically .. I mean, Howard still doesn't have a hook shot in the lane, and Bynum's got that even.

IronMexican

01-22-2009, 03:13 PM

Well, Dwight was a freak of nature just by his body. Drew looked like a baby compared to Dwight.

robbie380

01-22-2009, 03:15 PM

Dwight yes, but I think he's only listing West guys.

Okafur, no. Okafur is another ineffective Center who gives up points to other Centers.

rofl and what did bynum do last night? he let a no name rookie shoot put up 23 and 12 on him with 11/12 shooting.

i'll give the guy credit since it was a great game and i do like his game but let's not get ahead of ourselves with him yet. this is his 4th year in the league and he has regressed. that is generally a bad sign but like you have said he is still very young and he has a lot to learn.

z0sa

01-22-2009, 03:17 PM

Well, Dwight was a freak of nature just by his body. Drew looked like a baby compared to Dwight.

I agree .. which is why I said what I said. And also why I said if Dwight Howard had Kareem for nearly 4 years now, he'd have a variety of post moves ...

I'm honestly one who doesn't believe in people being smart or stupid enough to get something - one just has to be taught the right way to make them understand and see something for what it is. If Kareem had been devoting all this time for Mihm and Bynum on Howard, Dwight would be the best center of all time..

IronMexican

01-22-2009, 03:19 PM

If you say so. Kareem has been great, no doubt, but turning any 7 footer into an above average C? Idk.

z0sa

01-22-2009, 03:21 PM

If you say so. Kareem has been great, no doubt, but turning any 7 footer into an above average C? Idk.

Considering what he's done with Bynum, with a fraction of the work ethic of Dwight ... I'm selling him up and you're selling him down even though it's your team he's done this shit for.

Besides, if Kareem is incapable of turning "any" seven footer into an above average C, then why did you post that Bynum had nothing but 7feet going for him, when right now he has a decently polished post game and always had defense to boot (when he's trying).

turiaf for president

01-22-2009, 03:27 PM

no ure selling bynum short. he can have the best coaches in the world but if he doesnt work at it, its gonna take him nowhere. signs of him wanting to get better started in the offseason when he bulked up. people should stop the dho bynum comparisons. dho is a shaq like center who powers his way for his points and grabs boards. bynums more of a finese guy who has a much better touch from the mid range and can hold his own on the boards and blocks. he may look clumsy at times but thats just it.....he looks clumsy. in actuality he has very good foot work for a big man. he looks like he travels but he does a great job of anchoring his pivot foot.

Killakobe81

01-22-2009, 03:29 PM

I agree .. which is why I said what I said. And also why I said if Dwight Howard had Kareem for nearly 4 years now, he'd have a variety of post moves ...

I'm honestly one who doesn't believe in people being smart or stupid enough to get something - one just has to be taught the right way to make them understand and see something for what it is. If Kareem had been devoting all this time for Mihm and Bynum on Howard, Dwight would be the best center of all time..

Now granted he is no Kareem But Howard has Ewing teaching him everyday as well the lack of knowledege or the blind biased eyes used to make arguments on here baffles me ...id still rather have Dwight but Bynum's p[ost game is MUCH better than Howard i was AT the last Spur/Laker game Bynum went at Duncan (a great post defende) and scored at least 3 buckets ...
He has regressed energy and intensity wise becaiuse menatlly he is worried about landing on cats like he did last year ...that is why he has scored less on lobs but post wishe he is still nice ...other than aljefferson he has the best post moves of of allthe young big man hands-down ...

Allanon

01-22-2009, 03:34 PM

rofl and what did bynum do last night? he let a no name rookie shoot put up 23 and 12 on him with 11/12 shooting.

i'll give the guy credit since it was a great game and i do like his game but let's not get ahead of ourselves with him yet. this is his 4th year in the league and he has regressed. that is generally a bad sign but like you have said he is still very young and he has a lot to learn.

Bynum scored 19 more points than the other guy...I'll take that any day.

z0sa

01-22-2009, 03:34 PM

no ure selling bynum short. he can have the best coaches in the world but if he doesnt work at it, its gonna take him nowhere.

I bet if I were 7 feet, athletic and had Kareem f'in Abdul Jabbar mentoring me from my senior year of high school to now ... I'd be pretty damn good. That's just showing up to work everyday and wanting to improve.

signs of him wanting to get better started in the offseason when he bulked up.

Eh, while recovering he could not do nearly as much conditioning ... which is why he spent a lot of time in the weight room.

people should stop the dho bynum comparisons. dho is a shaq like center who powers his way for his points and grabs boards. bynums more of a finese guy who has a much better touch from the mid range and can hold his own on the boards and blocks.

That's just the thing - Dwight tries to make finesse moves around the basket and succeeds now.. but last season was the first time he really showed improvement in his back to the basket game - that's what happens when you've got video to go off and not NBA's All-Time Leading Scorer mentoring you.

mogrovejo

01-22-2009, 03:35 PM

Are you guys serious? Level of competition matters... you're reading too much in a game where he was defended by D-Leaguers.... He's skilled but not enough to have games as this against serious competition.

Until Bynum learns to defend the pick'n'roll, I doubt that he'll be on the floor when it counts, those slow tempo 4th quarters in the play-offs (that's why I think that the importance of having bigs to matchup with the Lakers is way overstated).

Nice asset to have and he can become a top3 center in the league due to his offensive prowess. The problem is that the Lakers have better offensive players than him and there are only so many shots to go around...

z0sa

01-22-2009, 03:36 PM

Now granted he is no Kareem But Howard has Ewing teaching him everyday as well the lack of knowledege or the blind biased eyes used to make arguments on here baffles me ...id still rather have Dwight but Bynum's p[ost game is MUCH better than Howard i was AT the last Spur/Laker game Bynum went at Duncan (a great post defende) and scored at least 3 buckets ...
He has regressed energy and intensity wise becaiuse menatlly he is worried about landing on cats like he did last year ...that is why he has scored less on lobs but post wishe he is still nice ...other than aljefferson he has the best post moves of of allthe young big man hands-down ...

LOL, Ewing = high arcing jumpshooter, I'd say thats about the most far opposite you could get for what Dhoward needs to improve in his game - though a nice looking jumper would be nice to see. His current form is a crime against basketball humanity.

Let me edit and say of course Ewing has his share of post moves but lets not confuse Ewing's accomplishments and style of play with Kareem's, who would be perfect for Howard.

Allanon

01-22-2009, 03:41 PM

Are you guys serious? Level of competition matters... you're reading too much in a game where he was defended by D-Leaguers.... He's skilled but not enough to have games as this against serious competition.

Just happy to see Bynum have a massive game. We know it's the Clippers but 42 is still nice against any team. In general, he's been playing well in January so far, very much like last year so that's a great sign. If he just can stay healthy into the Playoffs, it should be a great run.

I agree with the 4th quarter thing, Bynum's still not as good in the 4th as Pau/Odom, but he's improved some in this area as well.

We haven't seen it all year yet but I wouldn't be surprised to see Kobe/Ariza/Odom/Pau/Bynum in the 4th quarters soon.

mogrovejo

01-22-2009, 04:05 PM

Just happy to see Bynum have a massive game. We know it's the Clippers but 42 is still nice against any team. In general, he's been playing well in January so far, very much like last year so that's a great sign. If he just can stay healthy into the Playoffs, it should be a great run.

I agree with the 4th quarter thing, Bynum's still not as good in the 4th as Pau/Odom, but he's improved some in this area as well.

We haven't seen it all year yet but I wouldn't be surprised to see Kobe/Ariza/Odom/Pau/Bynum in the 4th quarters soon.

All right, I understand you're happy. But it's not being the Clippers, it's being the Clippers without any of their legit frontcourt players.

That lineup wouldn't work, you'd have to go away from the triangle and teams would throw a box'n'1 at you.

turiaf for president

01-22-2009, 04:09 PM

I bet if I were 7 feet, athletic and had Kareem f'in Abdul Jabbar mentoring me from my senior year of high school to now ... I'd be pretty damn good. That's just showing up to work everyday and wanting to improve.

hahahahaha thats bs. u think its that easy? if it is why doesnt every freakin team hire a hall of fame big man to be a big man coach then? you are giving yourself too much credit there buddy

stretch

01-22-2009, 04:13 PM

Bynum plays decent man defense, but he has low defensive IQ. He can be exposed easily with lots of pick and roll, backdoor cuts, and motion. Every time i've seen him, when there is motion in the offense, he gets completely lost, and looks stupid as hell. He also is a big crybaby and gets in spurts where he plays softer than Pau Gasoft has ever played in his life.

He has a lot of potential, but a lot of Laker fans think too highly of the kid right now.

DrHouse

01-22-2009, 04:15 PM

stretch

01-22-2009, 04:18 PM

7ft centers with his touch and footwork are a rarity in this league.

What Andrew is displaying at the age of 21 is incredible given how raw he was coming into the league.

You will realize in the next 2-3 seasons why the Laker's FO has held onto this kid for so long. He's the real deal.

Unfortunately, in 2-3 seasons, its not going to matter because Lebron and the Cavs will be dominating the entire league, especially after they pick up someone like Dirk, Bosh, or Amare in 2010.

DrHouse

01-22-2009, 04:24 PM

Unfortunately, in 2-3 seasons, its not going to matter because Lebron and the Cavs will be dominating the entire league, especially after they pick up someone like Dirk, Bosh, or Amare in 2010.

That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why would Dirk, Bosh, or Amare ever go to Cleveland?

Seriously you are without question one of the dumbest posters on here. You give your fellow Mavs fans a bad name....and trust me that's quite a feat!

stretch

01-22-2009, 04:27 PM

That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why would Dirk, Bosh, or Amare ever go to Cleveland?

Seriously you are without question one of the dumbest posters on here. You give your fellow Mavs fans a bad name....and trust me that's quite a feat!

Why wouldn't they go? Cleveland will have a shitload of cap space, while other guys that aren't winning shit right now, are going to want to go win some titles with Lebron. I can most definitely see Dirk going there, especially since he already said he would take a pay-cut to play with another superstar.

Just because you have Kobe's cock in your mouth, doesn't mean that you have to be an ignorant fuck.

DrHouse

01-22-2009, 04:40 PM

Why wouldn't they go? Cleveland will have a shitload of cap space, while other guys that aren't winning shit right now, are going to want to go win some titles with Lebron. I can most definitely see Dirk going there, especially since he already said he would take a pay-cut to play with another superstar.

Just because you have Kobe's cock in your mouth, doesn't mean that you have to be an ignorant fuck.

You obviously have never been to CLE.

stretch

01-22-2009, 04:43 PM

You obviously have never been to CLE.

:rolleyes

z0sa

01-22-2009, 04:52 PM

hahahahaha thats bs. u think its that easy? if it is why doesnt every freakin team hire a hall of fame big man to be a big man coach then? you are giving yourself too much credit there buddy

maybe, but the truth of the principle remains the same .. Bynum is proof. Every Lakerfan, yourself included most likely, has stated how raw Bynum was initially. Can any 7 footer come in and be great? No, but having seen what Kareem did with Bynum, some teams might want to start..

Then again, there's only a few with Kareem's basketball acumen and unique abilities.

DrHouse

01-22-2009, 05:15 PM

maybe, but the truth of the principle remains the same .. Bynum is proof. Every Lakerfan, yourself included most likely, has stated how raw Bynum was initially. Can any 7 footer come in and be great? No, but having seen what Kareem did with Bynum, some teams might want to start..

Then again, there's only a few with Kareem's basketball acumen and unique abilities.

Kareem also tutored another big man who came into the league raw. He's no longer playing anymore. Can you guess his name?

It's not just a matter of having the right teachers. You need to have the talent inside you to match and the willingness and ability to learn. Big men with Andrew's skillset don't grow on trees. They are the rarest kind of player in the NBA today.

mystargtr34

01-22-2009, 05:32 PM

While Bynum has really good length, he still has a low Defensive I.Q. He misses rotations and struggles against the pick and roll. He is an effective man to man defender because of his sheer size and length, but a quicker 5 can take advantage of him on the perimeter.

Also, its tough to compare his defensive stats or opponent PER to guys like Howard, Jefferson and Okafor. The Lakers have length throughout their lineup, and another 7'1" shotblocker playing at the 4 spot. It makes life alot tougher for the opposing C when there is another guy there waiting just as big as Bynum protecting the paint.

Guys like Howard, Okafor and Jefferson, all have Small Forwards playing Power Forward next to them. Guys like Lewis, Diaw and Craig Smith impact the numbers of the opposing C to some degree, even though they arent assigned to guard that guy.

mystargtr34

01-22-2009, 05:37 PM

Al Jefferson still has alot more offensive talent than Bynum and is a far better rebounder. Hes nowhere near as good a man to man defender but still blocks shots at a similar rate to Bynum so lets not act like one guy is Hakeem and the other is Oberto.

Someone said Jefferson has reached his peak already, how has he reached his peak when hes only 2 years older than Bynum :lol ? Yet Bynum has all this room to grow. Jefferson is 23. Ive never heard of anyone peak at 23.

Shaq, 15 minutes or 40 minutes, still produces alot better and more efficiently than Bynum does. I still think Nene would be considered a better player than Bynum by alot of people.

Chief

01-22-2009, 05:41 PM

z0sa

01-22-2009, 05:45 PM

Kareem also tutored another big man who came into the league raw. He's no longer playing anymore. Can you guess his name?

He tutored Olowakandi.

It's not just a matter of having the right teachers. You need to have the talent inside you to match and the willingness and ability to learn. Big men with Andrew's skillset don't grow on trees. They are the rarest kind of player in the NBA today.

No one said they grow on trees, and you're getting way off subject. I was comparing what Howard would do under Kareem's tutelage. It's clear a lot of Bynum's moves are straight out of Kareem's book .. though post moves are generally uniform in procedure, their difficulty in a gametime situations is mainly the ability to use the right move at the right time, which requires BB IQ - something the aforementioned big man (Olowakandi) didn't have.

Lakers_55

01-22-2009, 06:10 PM

Kareem also tutored another big man who came into the league raw. He's no longer playing anymore. Can you guess his name?

Vlade Divac.

LEONARD

01-22-2009, 06:19 PM

SD owned

Lakers_55

01-22-2009, 06:25 PM

What I love about Lakers Fans is last year a typical lakers fan would be pissing his panties about how awesome Bynum is and how he's like the new Messiah of L.A.

So during the offseason the Lakers give him a hefty contract without even watching him play an entire season.

So far this season he's suckin balls , don't give me the pathetic excuse of "he's playing exactly how we want him to", no he's fuckin not !

So last year he's the messiah
this year he's just "fitting his role perfectly" ,

yeah um u don't have that much money to just a role player, he better get his act together.

There are a lot of misconceptions about what Laker fans said Bynum would do for us. I think they got misnterpreted into blowing his abilties out of proportion.

Bynum in the lineup means between he, Gasol, and Odom, we always have two of the three on the court when the game is in doubt. Bynum > Turiaf or MBenga.

He may not impress with his statistics, but he does alter shots. He can turn it up when key matchups occur, he had nice stats vs. the Spurs. Disbelieve all you want, Drew is them missing ingredient to put us over the top. One of many ingredients, but enough to do his share and have it count in getting the W.

z0sa

01-22-2009, 06:32 PM

Vlade Divac.

Really?

Lakers_55

01-22-2009, 06:52 PM

Really?

Yeah, Kareem retired in 1989, same year Vlade was drafted. Kareem worked with him for awhile. I don't recall how long.

j-money24

01-22-2009, 08:04 PM

Bynum scored 19 more points than the other guy...I'll take that any day.

yah yah, but can he do it against centers that can actually play defense
im sorry but bynum gets shut down when he plays good defender centers.

turiaf for president

01-22-2009, 09:45 PM

no he was a full time tutor for kwame fuckin brown.

Killakobe81

01-22-2009, 09:57 PM

LOL, Ewing = high arcing jumpshooter, I'd say thats about the most far opposite you could get for what Dhoward needs to improve in his game - though a nice looking jumper would be nice to see. His current form is a crime against basketball humanity.

Let me edit and say of course Ewing has his share of post moves but lets not confuse Ewing's accomplishments and style of play with Kareem's, who would be perfect for Howard.

I dont diagree that Kareem has far better credentials but you dont have to be superstar player to be agreat coach most of the guys that are great coaches were role players ...that being said i d rather have Kareem than Ewing and Id still rather have DHO than Bynum ...BUT...it's no landslide if Bynum keeps working it could be similar to choosing SHAQ over duncan speed and power over skill ...

Killakobe81

01-22-2009, 10:00 PM

Bynum is not the messiah but he helps us transition from a kobe-centirc team for the next few years to a Bynum led team hopefully by then we will have drafted a Kobe replacement not sayinga HOF'er but a solid scorer we should be looking in the next few drafts a guy like Wafer and just let him develop on bench or in D-LEague ...a second round pick with raw potential ...

sedale threatt

01-23-2009, 01:51 AM

bynum is averaging 20.7 pts a game in the eight games since this thread was started.

sedale threatt

01-23-2009, 01:57 AM

which is more than tim duncan over the same period--not bad for a 21 year old who's "suckin balls".

Allanon

01-23-2009, 04:13 AM

Add in another 23 points, 14 rebounds tonight for Bynum on 67% shooting in only 28 minutes.

Big nights by Bynum/Odom/Pau means good times.

http://badpussy.org/uploads/files/ficbypcfxidyszsytetm.jpg

Purple & Gold

01-23-2009, 05:05 AM

Fuck the spurs fans in this thread are stupid. You guys have no idea what a young talented 7 footer looks like when you see it. Your hate clouds your judgment. Bynum and the Lakeshow will be eating teams for lunch when the playoffs roll around. Suck it spurs fans!!

Purple & Gold

01-23-2009, 05:09 AM

And giving Kareem all the credit and none to Bynum :lmao

One idiot here even thinks he could be an All-Star if he was 7 foot and had Kareem tutoring him. Give me a fucking break :rolleyes

mystargtr34

01-23-2009, 05:14 AM

Andre Blatche/Jamison and DeAndre Jordan/Skinner.

Still, hes coming along well, just calm the fuck down to prevent making a fuck of urself.

Purple & Gold

01-23-2009, 05:29 AM

Andre Blatche/Jamison and DeAndre Jordan/Skinner.

Still, hes coming along well, just calm the fuck down to prevent making a fuck of urself.

STFU you already look like an idiot. I've said it all along wait till the playoffs roll around. You guys have no fucken eye for talent. Not really hard to see that he will be a top center in this League for many many years if he stays healthy.

z0sa

01-23-2009, 10:54 AM

And giving Kareem all the credit and none to Bynum :lmao

One idiot here even thinks he could be an All-Star if he was 7 foot and had Kareem tutoring him. Give me a fucking break :rolleyes

Fail .. no one is giving Bynum any credit because all we've heard is how great he's going to become, over and over and over, with no real reason why except he's 7' and on the Lakers. I'm reaching for reasons it'll ever come true since I kinda like the kid.

And Bynum's already proved my "raw 7footer" point right, considering you yourself have said Bynum had nothing going for him except his height and athletic abilities. I said if I had the same things he did, I would have a variety of post moves ... not that'd I'd be all all-star. Bynum's not an all-star, where did you even get all-star from?

The fact is, what kareem has managed to do for this kid should be a shining example for other teams who think a player has high potential but is too raw .. remember, the original argument I made was that Dhoward would have just as many post moves as Bynum had he been working with Kareem this whole time.

21_Blessings

01-23-2009, 10:57 AM

Andre Blatche/Jamison and DeAndre Jordan/Skinner.

And he torched Duncan in the first half of the Spurs game last week. You do remember that right? He also defended Duncan quite well. Then Phil took him out in the 4th and Timmy abused Pau down the stretch for the win.

DrHouse

01-23-2009, 11:02 AM

z0sa

01-23-2009, 11:48 AM

It's not like Kareem was the only big man to ever play that had great post moves. Kareem doesn't have some kind of secret handbook that nobody else knows about. In fact Kareem has tutored a variety of players who simply never panned out, so your argument goes right out the window. The player himself has to have the talent and IQ to go out there and execute what he is being taught.

I already covered that in a couple replies:

a) Most post (and basketball) moves are uniform in procedure. Learning them is much simpler than pulling them off in a gametime situation. Example: If you've ever played basketball, you know you might be able to pull off a crossover, just not Allen Iverson's crossover.

b) A player must have a high enough BB Iq to use the right move, at the right time. Just watch Tim Duncan any given night and he'll show you the largest variety of post moves you'll see in today's NBA - fakes, up and under, spin moves, and hook shots are all on display nightly. But he knows when to use each and every move so it will be the most effective.

Now to your actual post:

Bynum has no goto move right now, and most of his baskets are assisted (though with his last couple performances, this may have gone down a little). Whether he develops one or not is still a question IMO. A prime example of how my argument stands up was on display last night: Against the Boston Celtics defense, Howard was stifled all night. He got no open dunks and took only 10 shots. The reason why? He's not that great of a passer, and he has very few reliable post moves. Yet he's still the best center in the NBA right now. Imagine if Kareem had been teaching him since he was drafted..

This also goes along with my argument against Orlando's success in this year's postseason. Dwight Howard is going to have to play out of his mind against a team like Boston, whose perimeter defenders are not going to allow open looks or miss rotations come playoff time. That team once again will wilt - I mean they lost to the Pistons last season in 5 for Chrissakes.

Another note is that Boston is going to do the same shit to Bynum if LA comes through to the Finals (and Boston).

DrHouse

01-23-2009, 01:12 PM

If you are still questioning whether Andrew will develop a go-to post move by this point you really don't know shit about basketball.

He's 21 years old and putting up solid numbers despite playing 28-30 mpg and playing around 3 other stars. He will develop in time, I know you're praying he won't.

Allanon

01-23-2009, 01:22 PM

This also goes along with my argument against Orlando's success in this year's postseason. Dwight Howard is going to have to play out of his mind against a team like Boston, whose perimeter defenders are not going to allow open looks or miss rotations come playoff time. That team once again will wilt - I mean they lost to the Pistons last season in 5 for Chrissakes.

Another note is that Boston is going to do the same shit to Bynum if LA comes through to the Finals (and Boston).

The Celtics are in for a real world of hurt against the Lakers. They have no answer for Bynum/Gasol/Odom. And with no Posey, the Celtics have no one to stop Kobe. KG can't leave Pau to double on Kobe (as seen in the Christmas Day game).

KG & Perkins are both around 6'10. Bynum and Pau are both over 7'.

But it gets worse for the C's. Their main Center off the bench is Leone Powe 6'8 and Glenn Davis 6'7 and 6'9 Brian Scalabrine.

dirk4mvp

01-23-2009, 01:27 PM

He's 21 years old and putting up solid numbers despite playing 28-30 mpg and playing around 3 other stars.

I hope you're not referring to Lamar Odom as a star, because he's not.

mathbzh

01-23-2009, 02:22 PM

KG & Perkins are both around 6'10. Bynum and Pau are both over 7'.

But it gets worse for the C's. Their main Center off the bench is Leone Powe 6'8 and Glenn Davis 6'7 and 6'9 Brian Scalabrine.

I don't think size is a real issue for Boston Perkins and Davis are strong enough to deal with bynum or gasol despite the size deficit.

Killakobe81

01-23-2009, 03:33 PM

We shall see if both teams make it but truth of the matter is the final 4 barring injuries will be Lakers, Cavs, Celts and Spurs ...Celts had hands full with a weaker Cavs team LAST year ...Spurs will have to deal with Bynum us with healthy Manu ...

HANNIBAL SMITH

01-23-2009, 04:45 PM

:lol @ this fucking thread.Bynum started out slow, but it looks like he is getting back to his January form of last season. It's funny how people say " well it's only the clippers" and "the wizards" regarding his performances, yea like every big man can drop 42 and 15 on the clippers right? It's so easy that Erick Dampier, Kwame, Kendrick Perkins and Dalembert can do it too right? Fuck outta here with that bullshit.

Give the kid props, it's not like he was a highly touted lottery pick when he came out of school with expectations to be a franchise player like Dwight was. Bynum was the definition of a "Project", lakers fans as myself didn't expect him to be this good so soon at this point of his career. He's passed expectations by far i'll say. For all of his hard work, glad to see it pay off for him.

As far as naming the top center, only Shaq, Dwight and Yao are better than Drew at this point. As far as Al Jeff and Okafor? Please. Bynum would average big numbers too if he were on a lottery team as the main man and got all the touches he want ( Like jeff).

You think the Bobcats would hesitate for a second to ship Okafor's ass outta Charlotte if the Lakers got stupid and decided to trade drew? :lol Thats all that needs to be said. If Drew can sustain this play on a regular basis ( with the Lakers continually to make it a priority to give him touches) Lakers will be very, very hard to beat, if they arent already.

HANNIBAL SMITH

01-23-2009, 04:49 PM

I don't think size is a real issue for Boston Perkins and Davis are strong enough to deal with bynum or gasol despite the size deficit.

Bynum and Gasol would abuse the living shit outta Glen Davis, too short, they can just shoot right over him. Bynum will fare much better against perk that Gasol or Odom did in the finals last year since he's a much bugger guy than they are. He can battle Perk in the paint.

mathbzh

01-23-2009, 05:34 PM

Bynum and Gasol would abuse the living shit outta Glen Davis, too short, they can just shoot right over him.

You are right for gasol. But bynum is not exactly a shooter. With his strength Davis could probably deny bynum easy access to the rim. I am not saying Davis is good enough to do it (honestly I don't know). Just that it is not only a matter of size.
I remember seing Boris Diaw defending on Yao very well, just keeping him out of the paint.

Lakers_55

01-23-2009, 06:20 PM

You are right for gasol. But bynum is not exactly a shooter. With his strength Davis could probably deny bynum easy access to the rim. I am not saying Davis is good enough to do it (honestly I don't know). Just that it is not only a matter of size.
I remember seing Boris Diaw defending on Yao very well, just keeping him out of the paint.

When Davis is on the floor, either Pierce or Garnett isn't. Unless Davis is center, then the Lakers get an edge with Gasol or Odom offensively, or just rely on the back court to score or pass. Davis still has to prove he can guard Bynum.

mystargtr34

01-23-2009, 06:53 PM

And he torched Duncan in the first half of the Spurs game last week. You do remember that right? He also defended Duncan quite well. Then Phil took him out in the 4th and Timmy abused Pau down the stretch for the win.

Actually i dont really remember him torching Duncan at all. But then again when was the last time you said anything accurate or non troll worthy. But we'll go with what sounds good?

mystargtr34

01-23-2009, 07:02 PM

The Celtics are in for a real world of hurt against the Lakers. They have no answer for Bynum/Gasol/Odom. And with no Posey, the Celtics have no one to stop Kobe. KG can't leave Pau to double on Kobe (as seen in the Christmas Day game).

KG & Perkins are both around 6'10. Bynum and Pau are both over 7'.

But it gets worse for the C's. Their main Center off the bench is Leone Powe 6'8 and Glenn Davis 6'7 and 6'9 Brian Scalabrine.

When will you stop making things up to suit your argument? You just give flat out wrong 'facts' all the time.

KG is probably 7'0" rather than his listed 6'11", thats story has been around the league since, well, about 1998. Gasol has no mis match on Garnett in terms of size, none at all. In fact its probably the other way around given Garnetts athelticism.

Perkins, being 6'10" still probably has the 'size' mismatch on Gasol given his sheer bulk and strength, which he proved last year. Now, he will spend most of his time guarding Bynum who has about 2 inches on him, yet in the past Perkins has more than held his own against Bynum, in fact hes probably outplayed him in H2H match ups.

The problem will be the backups. I dont think Big Baby will see much time in a series between the two teams, maybe only spot minutes behind Perkins if he gets in foul trouble with Powe. All he will be able to hope do is to keep Bynum from getting good position and good catches. After that, its over.

Powe wont have too many problems against Odom like you say, hes pretty quick and atheltic and not a horrible defensive player.

Many PackYao

01-23-2009, 07:05 PM

Since we know Sterns is gonna make sure the Lakers are in the Finals this year.You Laker fans better hope Bi-num doesn't cost you any games with his undependable free throw shooting like Shaq did.

Allanon

01-23-2009, 10:29 PM

When will you stop making things up to suit your argument? You just give flat out wrong 'facts' all the time.

KG is probably 7'0" rather than his listed 6'11", thats story has been around the league since, well, about 1998. Gasol has no mis match on Garnett in terms of size, none at all. In fact its probably the other way around given Garnetts athelticism.

I said "around 6'10", I think KG is closer to 6'10 than he is to 7'. But who cares? Pau has at least 1-2 inches on KG....that is the point. I didn't say they have a mismatch on both Bynum and Gasol, they have a mismatch on one or the other. KG can defend 1 of them well but not both. And Bynum has 2-3 inches on both KG and Perkins.

Perkins, being 6'10" still probably has the 'size' mismatch on Gasol given his sheer bulk and strength, which he proved last year. Now, he will spend most of his time guarding Bynum who has about 2 inches on him, yet in the past Perkins has more than held his own against Bynum, in fact hes probably outplayed him in H2H match ups.

During the recent Christmas game, Perkins couldn't guard Bynum one on one. That's why KG had to help so much on him leaving Pau open for wide open shots.

Last year, the C's didn't have to worry about Pau/Odom cuz they had the size advantage. But this year, the Lakers have the clear advantage. Celtics cannot guard both Pau and Bynum, 1 yes, but not both.

Lakers play the Celtics in a couple of weeks, just watch Perkins on Bynum, it's no matchup unless he gets help and that leaves other guys open.

Celtics are way too small for the Lakers, and that's a fact, especially when the next two backup big men are 6'8 and 6'7 respectively.

mogrovejo

01-23-2009, 11:44 PM

1. Perkins is bigger than you think. Basketball players don't rebound with the top of their heads.

Kendrick Perkins:
Standing Reach: 9' 4.5"
Wingspan: 7' 6.5"

Andrew Bynum:
Standing Reach: 9' 4"
Wingspan: 7' 6"

I'm sorry for the bad news.

2.
During the recent Christmas game, Perkins couldn't guard Bynum one on one. That's why KG had to help so much on him leaving Pau open for wide open shots.

Have you watched the game? With 4 minutes to go, Gasol was 4-10 FG and 10 points - a completely non-factor. He scored all those later shots, in a 2 minutes stretch, from Kobe's dribble drives - that the C's failed to stop - , Bynum had nothing to do with it. You're just making up things.

3. Perkins was playing that game with a dislocated shoulder. However, he didn't have much of a problem with Bynum, like he never had in the past. Bynum struggles with bigger, fundamentally solid post defenders, like Perkins.

mogrovejo

01-23-2009, 11:45 PM

Lakers fans are reading way too much on a reg. season game that was a tie with 3 minutes to go... lots of confidence in beating a team that defends and rebounds way better than them. Oh well, perhaps this is the year a team can win the title by outscoring the opponents.

IronMexican

01-23-2009, 11:49 PM

mystargtr34

01-24-2009, 12:08 AM

1. Perkins is bigger than you think. Basketball players don't rebound with the top of their heads.

Kendrick Perkins:
Standing Reach: 9' 4.5"
Wingspan: 7' 6.5"

Andrew Bynum:
Standing Reach: 9' 4"
Wingspan: 7' 6"

I'm sorry for the bad news.

2.

Have you watched the game? With 4 minutes to go, Gasol was 4-10 FG and 10 points - a completely non-factor. He scored all those later shots, in a 2 minutes stretch, from Kobe's dribble drives - that the C's failed to stop - , Bynum had nothing to do with it. You're just making up things.

3. Perkins was playing that game with a dislocated shoulder. However, he didn't have much of a problem with Bynum, like he never had in the past. Bynum struggles with bigger, fundamentally solid post defenders, like Perkins.

Damn thats some impressive measurements for Perkins. Essentially, he plays bigger than Bynum, despite being 2 inches shorter. I would think Garnett would have a bigger standing reach than Gasol despite probably being an inch shorter.

cobbler

01-24-2009, 01:27 AM

I dont even know why there is all this talk about boston and the lakers in the finals. The Lakers will be playing the Spurs for the rights to play against the Cav's for the title.

Boston is ONE AND DONE... We'll see you again in 20 years or so...

Zee Laker

01-24-2009, 05:38 AM

Since we know Sterns is gonna make sure the Lakers are in the Finals this year.You Laker fans better hope Bi-num doesn't cost you any games with his undependable free throw shooting like Shaq did.

How is Stren gonna make sure of that? injure TMac and Manu again?

oh and you so right about Bynums FT. He is shooting 68% compared to someone like Duncan who is shooting 70% or Dwight Howard who is at 58% for the current season :rolleyes

Allanon

01-24-2009, 07:29 AM

1. Perkins is bigger than you think. Basketball players don't rebound with the top of their heads.

Kendrick Perkins:
Standing Reach: 9' 4.5"
Wingspan: 7' 6.5"

Andrew Bynum:
Standing Reach: 9' 4"
Wingspan: 7' 6"

I'm sorry for the bad news.

1) That's Bynum's reach at age 17. He's grown since then.
2) Basketball players don't rebound standing on the ground. Basketball players don't shoot or block standing on the ground.

Bynum has a 33 inch vertical, Perkins has like a 5 inch vertical. Huge Advantage Bynum.

Have you watched the game? With 4 minutes to go, Gasol was 4-10 FG and 10 points - a completely non-factor. He scored all those later shots, in a 2 minutes stretch, from Kobe's dribble drives - that the C's failed to stop - , Bynum had nothing to do with it. You're just making up things.

What are you talking about? The Celtics can choose to stop 1 player, Pau or Bynum but not both. Celtics stopped Bynum but let Pau score 20 points on 50% shooting. As I said, the Celtics can stop 1 but not both. That was like the first game Bynum played in the final minutes of the 4th quarter. Celtics had to pick their poison and lost.

3. Perkins was playing that game with a dislocated shoulder. However, he didn't have much of a problem with Bynum, like he never had in the past. Bynum struggles with bigger, fundamentally solid post defenders, like Perkins.

Ah, I see, Perkins played well but it was KG that sucked. KG wasn't injured but he let Pau get 20 points on 50% shooting. That's cool too, either way, the C's can stop one but not both.

Pau/Bynum left them in such a funk the Celtics went and lost like 7 games out of 9 after losing only 2 games all season up to then.

Sounds crazy, I know but that certainly wasn't "made up", just check the record. Check the Celtics boards, it was all doomsday and "fire Danny" for weeks after the meeting with Pau/Bynum.

Many PackYao

01-24-2009, 12:58 PM

How is Stren gonna make sure of that? injure TMac and Manu again?

oh and you so right about Bynums FT. He is shooting 68% compared to someone like Duncan who is shooting 70% or Dwight Howard who is at 58% for the current season :rolleyes

What I meant by Stern making sure they get there is...
The Lakers are already good enough without the refs help, yet they usually get the benefit of the doubt on questionable calls.The refs just ain't going to call a Laker game fairly unless the Celtics are the other team.

Put Bi-num at the ft line during crunch time of a close game against the Spurs or the Celtics in a playoff game and see what happens.
Maybe Phil won't let that scenario happen.

Duncan makes his when they count the most.

Dwight is overrated anyway.

Zee Laker

01-24-2009, 01:19 PM

Put Bi-num at the ft line during crunch time of a close game against the Spurs or the Celtics in a playoff game and see what happens.
Maybe Phil won't let that scenario happen.

Hes yet to play a single playoffs game so we have no idea. He could as clutch as hell or poop himself under pressure. We will just have to wait and see

Many PackYao

01-24-2009, 01:35 PM

Hes yet to play a single playoffs game so we have no idea. He could as clutch as hell or poop himself under pressure. We will just have to wait and see
I'm willing to bet,"poop on himself".:p:

mogrovejo

01-24-2009, 10:34 PM

1) That's Bynum's reach at age 17. He's grown since then.
2) Basketball players don't rebound standing on the ground. Basketball players don't shoot or block standing on the ground.

Bynum has a 33 inch vertical, Perkins has like a 5 inch vertical. Huge Advantage Bynum.

What are you talking about? The Celtics can choose to stop 1 player, Pau or Bynum but not both. Celtics stopped Bynum but let Pau score 20 points on 50% shooting. As I said, the Celtics can stop 1 but not both. That was like the first game Bynum played in the final minutes of the 4th quarter. Celtics had to pick their poison and lost.

Ah, I see, Perkins played well but it was KG that sucked. KG wasn't injured but he let Pau get 20 points on 50% shooting. That's cool too, either way, the C's can stop one but not both.

Pau/Bynum left them in such a funk the Celtics went and lost like 7 games out of 9 after losing only 2 games all season up to then.

Sounds crazy, I know but that certainly wasn't "made up", just check the record. Check the Celtics boards, it was all doomsday and "fire Danny" for weeks after the meeting with Pau/Bynum.

1. Now you're saying a different thing. Good we put the Bynum/Gasol are so much bigger than Perkins/KG talk to a definitive rest. Those measurements are also from Perkins rookie year and he also came out directly from high school. Leaping ability is not really that important. The C's are the best rebounding team in the league, the Lakers, not so much.

2. Again, Pau deserves all the props in the world for coming out big in the last minutes after being cold the entire game, but I don't see why Bynum has anything to do with it. Tell me a single play where Bynum was important and why. I'd have to check the box-score, but I believe all of those shots were assisted by Kobe. Kobe forcing KG to leave Pau to help and assisting before the help to the helper was the key.

3. It's the regular season, calm down. Teams go on slumps all the time.

4. Really? Not on the board I read. I wouldn't be surprised though, most fans are reactionary and over-emotional.

DrHouse

01-24-2009, 10:47 PM

1. Now you're saying a different thing. Good we put the Bynum/Gasol are so much bigger than Perkins/KG talk to a definitive rest. Those measurements are also from Perkins rookie year and he also came out directly from high school. Leaping ability is not really that important. The C's are the best rebounding team in the league, the Lakers, not so much.

2. Again, Pau deserves all the props in the world for coming out big in the last minutes after being cold the entire game, but I don't see why Bynum has anything to do with it. Tell me a single play where Bynum was important and why. I'd have to check the box-score, but I believe all of those shots were assisted by Kobe. Kobe forcing KG to leave Pau to help and assisting before the help to the helper was the key.

3. It's the regular season, calm down. Teams go on slumps all the time.

4. Really? Not on the board I read. I wouldn't be surprised though, most fans are reactionary and over-emotional.

It's actually more subtle than you would think.

Bynum changes the defensive assignments that used to favor the Celtics immensely.

It forces Garnett to have to play man defense on Gasol instead of free safety like he was able to do on Odom. It also limits Perkins ability to disrupt on the offensive glass. In addition, bench players like Powe and BBD who killed LAL last season are rendered ineffective as they cannot score over Bynum.

The Celtic's problem against LAL is offense. With Kobe playing on Rondo it means role players HAVE to step it up if they are going to keep pace with the Lakers offensively. Without Posey and PJ Brown the Celtics will continue to struggle against LAL's depth.

mogrovejo

01-24-2009, 11:09 PM

DrHouse

01-25-2009, 12:30 AM

KG guards the best big man of the opponent team plenty of times and still gives help. Thibodeau's system is not a traditional help and recover defence, that doesn't have any impact - I mean, see for how many points Pau and Bynum combined until those last minutes from Gasol.

Rondo's struggles have nothing to do with Kobe guarding him. People should stop believing that. Rondo is just inconsistent, he's a 22 years old in his 2nd season as a starter. Lots of teams defend him the same way and sometimes it's completely useless.

Depth? Again? Haven't you learn nothing with last season? Depth in the play-offs is over-rated. Anyway, the C's have already said they won't go to the play-offs with this roster.

Anyway, nice for the Lakers having all those things going on for them and winning a home game in the final 4 minutes.

Oh, of course the Lakers are an offensive juggernaut. We heard about that a lot last season already. Hopefully they can improve their defence and rebounding till the play-offs.

You of all people should know how much you need depth in the playoffs because without Posey and PJ Brown the Celtics don't win an NBA title last season. Now they don't have either player and are forced to rely on Tony Allen, BBD, and Eddie House. Furthermore there is no guarantee the Celtics acquire solid bench players as both PJ Brown and Mourning have announcement their permanent retirement. And it's not like the Celtics have any attractive trading pieces anymore unless they are willing to part with Ray Allen. Tell me who are they going to trade to bring in some bench help? What FA's are available?

IMHO the Celtics could very easily not even make it back to the NBA Finals if CLE has HCA over them this season.

mogrovejo

01-25-2009, 01:06 AM

DrHouse

01-25-2009, 01:30 AM

Yeah, I also agree Cleveland is our most worrying opponent, as they were last season. With or without HCA, they're good enough to beat the C's.

Depth? In the play-offs you need 8 guys who can play and 4 others to waive towels and scream like crazy. Last year Lakers bench was supposed to be the better one, but in the play-offs you need 3 guys that can reinforce the starters, not a unit able to produce.

Don't worry, someone will be signed - PJ and Cassell weren't on the roster 1 year ago.

That's what I'm talking about. The 8 man rotation. The 3-4 guys that come off the bench that can pick up the slack when the starters aren't producing. The Celtics lost 2 key contributors and did not replace them with quality players. They replaced battle tested veterans with inexperienced and inconsistent rookies.

You keep saying someone will be signed.....who? It's not so easy to replenish the bench, the Lakers struggled with it during their 3-peat years. When you find those rare role players like Horry and Posey you hold onto them for dear life. I still think LAL made a big mistake in letting Horry go when they did, he had at least 2 more seasons of quality play left in him.

Ainge was brilliant in getting KG and RA to BOS, but he really screwed the pooch by letting Posey walk.

Allanon

01-25-2009, 06:13 AM

1. Now you're saying a different thing. Good we put the Bynum/Gasol are so much bigger than Perkins/KG talk to a definitive rest. Those measurements are also from Perkins rookie year and he also came out directly from high school. Leaping ability is not really that important. The C's are the best rebounding team in the league, the Lakers, not so much.

Hahah, I was talking height and you throw in reach and then you tell ME that I'm talking about something different? :lol Fact of the matter is Bynum's size length and jumping ability gives him at least a foot advantage on Perkins.

2. Again, Pau deserves all the props in the world for coming out big in the last minutes after being cold the entire game, but I don't see why Bynum has anything to do with it. Tell me a single play where Bynum was important and why. I'd have to check the box-score, but I believe all of those shots were assisted by Kobe. Kobe forcing KG to leave Pau to help and assisting before the help to the helper was the key.

Bynum was stopped, but the Celtics couldn't stop Pau. Bynum's importance is being on the court, the Celtics have to pick their poison, are they going to let Bynum go off or Pau go off.

If the Celtics try to stop Pau the next time, Bynum will go off for 20 points on 50% shooting.

Celtics aren't big enough to guard BOTH Pau and Bynum, only one or the other.

3. It's the regular season, calm down. Teams go on slumps all the time.
I don't know of any elite teams going on a 7 of 9 losing slump. Lakers loss rattled them pretty bad.

Rapper

01-25-2009, 08:14 AM

Andrew Bynum doesn't deserve a starter

LA should put Gasol as the Center and Odom at PF position

sedale threatt

01-25-2009, 05:25 PM

Is Duncan hurt or just getting outplayed by young Andrew Bynum?

LEONARD

01-25-2009, 06:47 PM

Poor SpursDynasty...

turiaf for president

01-25-2009, 11:35 PM

watch out for deandre jordan. he was a lottery pick in the works when he was in college but stock slipped. he had 10 boards and 6 blocks in his 1st start on monday and now 23 12 and 4 blocks

damn DJ... what a beast.

jordan went for 20 boards tonight against the 3rd leading rebounder in the league in biedrins.

im telling you, the clippers found a nice player in the 2nd round.

Ghazi

01-26-2009, 12:32 AM

mogrovejo

01-26-2009, 10:43 AM

Hahah, I was talking height and you throw in reach and then you tell ME that I'm talking about something different? :lol Fact of the matter is Bynum's size length and jumping ability gives him at least a foot advantage on Perkins.

Bynum was stopped, but the Celtics couldn't stop Pau. Bynum's importance is being on the court, the Celtics have to pick their poison, are they going to let Bynum go off or Pau go off.

If the Celtics try to stop Pau the next time, Bynum will go off for 20 points on 50% shooting.

Celtics aren't big enough to guard BOTH Pau and Bynum, only one or the other.

About the size issue, I don't know what to say. First you said that Perkins and Garnett are too small; then you learned that Garnett is actually a 7 ft and Perkins is basically one as well, as he has no neck, so suddenly it becomes about leaping ability... now they are big enough to guard 1 of them but not both.

Look, I don't like to sound cocky, but Perkins is a better rebounder than Bynum; he dominated Bynum in all their matchups so far... you keep talking about the Christmas game, but you've yet to explain how exactly Bynum influenced the outcome or impacted Gasol's production. After 40 minutes they were combining for 19 points. That's not a lot, is it? In the last minutes Kobe and Gasol were great, played the 2 man game very well, C's perimeter defenders failed the execution... but that's all, what was exactly the importance of Bynum on those plays? Oh well, we'll see, I guess, but Garnett is the best defensive player in the game, Perkins one of the top low post defenders in the league and the C's are the best rebounding team and to be completeley honest, there are other frontcourts that worry me a lot more than the Lakers one.

If you are so certain that the C's can't stop both Gasol and Bynum, well, one can only hope you're wrong. Anyway, I compliment your assertiveness and confidence.

I don't know of any elite teams going on a 7 of 9 losing slump. The '72 Lakers lost 4 of 6 after their 33 game streak was broken. The '08 Rockets lost 5 of 8 after their 22 game streak was broken. The '71 Bucks lost 5 of 6 after winning 20, and so forth.

OTOH, maybe you're right and the Celtics aren't an elite team. You're clearly a great basketball mind.

turiaf for president

01-26-2009, 11:41 AM

08 rockets an elite team?

2Cleva

01-26-2009, 11:57 AM

Garnett is one of the best defenders in the game but he makes Boston's D really go when he can play safety, helping wherver is needed and playing the passing lanes.

Against LA, he is forced to guard a man who can score against him and Boston has to play straight up instead of helping. That's where having Bynum and Gasol will prove its worth. That was evident in the Christmas game and Bynum wasn't even rolling then.

mogrovejo

01-26-2009, 12:09 PM

People should understand Boston's defensive philosophy.

Teams that give the C's problems are teams like Charlotte, Atlanta, Utah, etc. It's not because they have 2 quality bigs, rather another issue. Garnett is frequently guarding the best big of the opponent (more often than not), that's not a problem. Boston always defends the post straight up.

Allanon

01-26-2009, 01:54 PM

About the size issue, I don't know what to say. First you said that Perkins and Garnett are too small; then you learned that Garnett is actually a 7 ft and Perkins is basically one as well, as he has no neck, so suddenly it becomes about leaping ability

Nope, I stick by it, Perkins is too small to guard Bynum, he needs help.

now they are big enough to guard 1 of them but not both.

I've said this all along. Celtics can stop either Pau or Bynum but not both.

Look, I don't like to sound cocky, but Perkins is a better rebounder than Bynum; he dominated Bynum in all their matchups so far...

Bynum had 9 points, Perkins had 8 points? Why are you making up this "dominance"?

you keep talking about the Christmas game, but you've yet to explain how exactly Bynum influenced the outcome or impacted Gasol's production. After 40 minutes they were combining for 19 points.

Why do you stop at 40 minutes? NBA games are 48 minutes. Pau+Bynum scored 29 points.

That's not a lot, is it? In the last minutes Kobe and Gasol were great, played the 2 man game very well, C's perimeter defenders failed the execution... but that's all, what was exactly the importance of Bynum on those plays?

Being on the court. With Bynum on the court, you can't help off 1 guy to defend another. The Celtics last year had to deal with a much smaller guy in Odom. Pau + Odom averaged like what ... 15 points in the Finals combined? Celtics have alot more to deal with in Bynum. His shot-blocking also discourages guys like Rondo from driving at will. Rondo was 3 of 11 in that game. That is his importance.

Of course, this is my opinion only. I know you believe in your Celtics and I believe in my Lakers. We'll see in June hopefully.

The '72 Lakers lost 4 of 6 after their 33 game streak was broken. The '08 Rockets lost 5 of 8 after their 22 game streak was broken. The '71 Bucks lost 5 of 6 after winning 20, and so forth.

OTOH, maybe you're right and the Celtics aren't an elite team. You're clearly a great basketball mind.

None of them lost 7 of 9.

DrHouse

01-26-2009, 02:40 PM

About the size issue, I don't know what to say. First you said that Perkins and Garnett are too small; then you learned that Garnett is actually a 7 ft and Perkins is basically one as well, as he has no neck, so suddenly it becomes about leaping ability... now they are big enough to guard 1 of them but not both.

Look, I don't like to sound cocky, but Perkins is a better rebounder than Bynum; he dominated Bynum in all their matchups so far... you keep talking about the Christmas game, but you've yet to explain how exactly Bynum influenced the outcome or impacted Gasol's production. After 40 minutes they were combining for 19 points. That's not a lot, is it? In the last minutes Kobe and Gasol were great, played the 2 man game very well, C's perimeter defenders failed the execution... but that's all, what was exactly the importance of Bynum on those plays? Oh well, we'll see, I guess, but Garnett is the best defensive player in the game, Perkins one of the top low post defenders in the league and the C's are the best rebounding team and to be completeley honest, there are other frontcourts that worry me a lot more than the Lakers one.

If you are so certain that the C's can't stop both Gasol and Bynum, well, one can only hope you're wrong. Anyway, I compliment your assertiveness and confidence.

The '72 Lakers lost 4 of 6 after their 33 game streak was broken. The '08 Rockets lost 5 of 8 after their 22 game streak was broken. The '71 Bucks lost 5 of 6 after winning 20, and so forth.

OTOH, maybe you're right and the Celtics aren't an elite team. You're clearly a great basketball mind.

Perkins is not a better rebounder than Bynum. Bynum can jump higher and outreach Perkins on any rebound that's nearby. Unless Perk has inside position he's not outrebounding Bynum. And he certainly didn't dominate the last matchup. I'd say both neutralized each other, but Bynum has really started playing in another gear lately and I'd say if the Lakers-Celtics played right now he'd outplay him.

Bynum doesn't have to score a single pt for his presence to be felt. He changes all of the matchups that used to favor the Celts greatly into a wash or Laker advantage. He intimidates Allen, Pierce, and Rondo from driving into the lane for easy jumpshots. Quite frankly the Celtic's offense sputtered in the 4th when the Lakers locked down and that cost them the game. If Garnet wasn't on fire from the perimeter the final score would have been much worse.

And none of this talk really matters. The Celtics are not beating the Cavs unless they can get HCA over them. Thus far they haven't come close to being able to beat CLE on the road.

stretch

01-26-2009, 03:12 PM

Bynum > Perkins

mystargtr34

01-26-2009, 08:05 PM

Perkins is not a better rebounder than Bynum. Bynum can jump higher and outreach Perkins on any rebound that's nearby. Unless Perk has inside position he's not outrebounding Bynum. And he certainly didn't dominate the last matchup. I'd say both neutralized each other, but Bynum has really started playing in another gear lately and I'd say if the Lakers-Celtics played right now he'd outplay him.

Bynum doesn't have to score a single pt for his presence to be felt. He changes all of the matchups that used to favor the Celts greatly into a wash or Laker advantage. He intimidates Allen, Pierce, and Rondo from driving into the lane for easy jumpshots. Quite frankly the Celtic's offense sputtered in the 4th when the Lakers locked down and that cost them the game. If Garnet wasn't on fire from the perimeter the final score would have been much worse.

And none of this talk really matters. The Celtics are not beating the Cavs unless they can get HCA over them. Thus far they haven't come close to being able to beat CLE on the road.

Thats the idea of boxing out. What makes Perkins such a good rebounder is not only his length, but more so his wide body. As soon as he puts a body on you its over, if you try get it its more than likely a over the top foul, even for a guy as tall as Bynum.

Again, Bynum may be 7'0" to Perkins 6'10", but you dont rebound or block shots with the top of your head like mogrovejo said. Perkins essentially plays bigger than Bynum, a 9'4.5" standing reach to 9'4". Both came out of High School. Allanon made the case Bynum has grown since then, well he was 6'11" without shoes when they drafted him, i dont think hes much over 7'0" now if at all, so there isnt much of an advantage either way.

Yea Bynum is more athletic, but you can make the case that it evens out with Perkins considerable bulk advantage.

Its hardly a mismatch.

IronMexican

01-26-2009, 08:10 PM

Drew named POTW. Pretty damn nice.

mystargtr34

01-26-2009, 08:17 PM

:lol DrHouse is here already.

Are you Bynum's PR man?

Def Rowe

01-26-2009, 08:37 PM

Allanon made the case Bynum has grown since then, well he was 6'11" without shoes when they drafted him, i dont think hes much over 7'0" now if at all, so there isnt much of an advantage either way.

In training camp of 08 Bynum measured in at 7 feet 1/2 inches with his shoes off. He's a tad over 7-1 with his shoes on.

mogrovejo

01-26-2009, 08:41 PM

Perkins has a better rebounding rate in a much better rebounding team. I have no idea how to measure rebounding prowess in order to make him the worse rebounder.

Side-note: Basketball is not track&field. It's not a physical contest. Kevin Love isn't very big, nor very athletic. However, I think he's going to be the best rebounder in the NBA for many years - ahead of Dwight Howard. He's having the best rookie year in terms of rebounding since Wes Unseld.

mystargtr34

01-26-2009, 08:47 PM

In training camp of 08 Bynum measured in at 7 feet 1/2 inches with his shoes off. He's a tad over 7-1 with his shoes on.

Can you show me where you saw that? It may well be true but it seems like a slight exaggeration by their people. Id say he and Gasol are the same height, maybe Drew has a fraction on him. Gasol is about 3/4" taller than Tim whos at best 6'11" in shoes.

I dont think Bynum has 2 inches on Duncan.

mogrovejo

01-26-2009, 08:49 PM

In a couple of months, Bynum will be bigger than Yao Ming.

mystargtr34

01-26-2009, 08:50 PM

:lol Can you show me where you got your measurements? Draftexpress??

Def Rowe

01-26-2009, 09:02 PM

Can you show me where you saw that? It may well be true but it seems like a slight exaggeration by their people. Id say he and Gasol are the same height, maybe Drew has a fraction on him. Gasol is about 3/4" taller than Tim whos at best 6'11" in shoes.

I dont think Bynum has 2 inches on Duncan.

Bynum said that in a video interview on Lakers.com 2 years ago. I didn't just make that up to impress strangers. I'll see if I can find the video.

mystargtr34

01-26-2009, 09:05 PM

Bynum said that in a video interview on Lakers.com 2 years ago. I didn't just make that up to impress strangers. I'll see if I can find the video.

Yea i didnt say you did - i said whoever said it from the Lakers camp may be exaggerating, in this case Bynum.

Def Rowe

01-26-2009, 09:20 PM

I dont think Bynum has 2 inches on Duncan.
I don't think Bynum has 2 inches on Duncan either. Duncan is a 7 footer.

Def Rowe

01-26-2009, 09:22 PM

:lol

Yea i didnt say you did - i said whoever said it from the Lakers camp may be exaggerating, in this case Bynum.

mystargtr34

01-26-2009, 09:24 PM

I don't think Bynum has 2 inches on Duncan either. Duncan is a 7 footer.

Duncan is 6'11" in shoes at best. Maybe a 1/4" more.

turiaf for president

01-27-2009, 11:11 PM

10 points and 7 boards in the 1st quarter

21_Blessings

01-28-2009, 02:34 AM

24, 14 and 6 (blocks) going up against Omeka tonight

z0sa

01-28-2009, 02:38 AM

24, 14 and 6 (blocks) going up against Omeka tonight

biggest miss of the night in double ot with time winding down .. wouldve been a 2 pt game, stayed 4, they fouled and it became 6, game over

Showtime24 LAKERS

01-28-2009, 02:45 AM

another beastin night for Andy Bynumitte. 4 straight double double! :toast

mogrovejo

01-28-2009, 03:46 AM

Throwing an elbow at someone's thorax in midair with no intention to make a play at the ball merits a couple of games out. I believe it wasn't intentional and that he's still learning the job, but even young guys can't be allowed to play out of control like that.

DrHouse

01-28-2009, 03:51 AM

mogrovejo

01-28-2009, 05:41 AM

STFU you pale white ass honkey with a shit BOS accent.

:lol All right, I'll shut up, but he should be disciplined nonetheless. Bawstin accent trumps the fake spanish you talk there. Have a wicked pissah day, bra.

IronMexican

01-28-2009, 11:17 AM

:lol All right, I'll shut up, but he should be disciplined nonetheless. Bawstin accent trumps the fake spanish you talk there. Have a wicked pissah day, bra.

Fake spanish?

z0sa

01-28-2009, 11:36 AM

Fake spanish?

Spanglish?

Allanon

01-28-2009, 02:06 PM

Throwing an elbow at someone's thorax in midair with no intention to make a play at the ball merits a couple of games out.

Maybe suspend him past the upcoming Lakers vs Celtics game? :lol

I believe it wasn't intentional and that he's still learning the job, but even young guys can't be allowed to play out of control like that.

That's fair. I don't think it was intentional either. It's terrible that Wallace got hurt like that. I didn't even look that bad of a hit. It looked like a freak play more than anything.

I hope Wallace gets well soon and that it's nothing serious.

IronMexican

01-28-2009, 02:17 PM

Spanglish?

All Mexican's speak Spanglish. It's my second language.

j.dizzle

01-28-2009, 03:01 PM

gmartin02

01-28-2009, 11:07 PM

Screw boston i went there 2 years ago & i recommend that nobody goes there..Its so fuckin boring all they have is a few wack bars & the girls there are ugly as hell..I see more hot girls in 5 minutes in LA then a whole week in boston haha. Now i know why tom brady never actually stays in boston when hes not playing cuz there aint shit to do thereThe Boston area is a real nice place (except for the Celtics) if you can think of anything else to do besides going to Hooters - Los Angeles is a cultural wasteland compared to Massachusetts.

Fucking low class retard