Mavs lose to the Kings.

[lurker]

:lobt2:

[Hemotivo]

game over already?

[dirk4mvp]

We are the all singing all dancing crap of the world.

[Hemotivo]

yep

Sacramento 102, Dallas 95

[Hemotivo]

Top Performers
Dallas
Jason Terry
14-24, 33 Pts
1 Rebs, 4 Assists

Sacramento
Beno Udrih
6-14, 16 Pts
5 Rebs, 6 Assists

[NBA Dynasty]

Well the kings have a good team just beating a bunch of soft ass shooters they are suppose to beat.

P.S I AM NOT SPURS DYNASTY!!! I REPEAT I AM NOT SPURS DYNASTY!

[sribb43]

Mavs now in 9th place, today was the last day of the season that the mavs were in the playoffs. don't expect them to climb back into the race..even if they do, who cares bc it would be a 1st ruond sweep by the Lakers

[scanry]

Well the kings have a good team just beating a bunch of soft ass shooters they are suppose to beat.

P.S I AM NOT SPURS DYNASTY!!! I REPEAT I AM NOT SPURS DYNASTY!

:lol:lol:lol

[Hemotivo]

Well the kings have a good team just beating a bunch of soft ass shooters they are suppose to beat.

P.S I AM NOT SPURS DYNASTY!!! I REPEAT I AM NOT SPURS DYNASTY!

ok

[sribb43]

Once again a team that lacks 3pt shooter jacks up 20 3's only make 3 of them. Dirk, Jet and Kidd should be allowed to shoot 3's, anyone else who shoots them should be shot on sight

[NBA Dynasty]

Once again a team that lacks 3pt shooter jacks up 20 3's only make 3 of them. Dirk, Jet and Kidd should be allowed to shoot 3's, anyone else who shoots them should be shot on sight

Stackhouse is a pretty good shooter.

[sribb43]

Stackhouse is a pretty good shooter.

correction...chucker

[lurker]

Well the kings have a good team just beating a bunch of soft ass shooters they are suppose to beat.

P.S I AM NOT SPURS DYNASTY!!! I REPEAT I AM NOT SPURS DYNASTY!
You're also 2 years late on that joke.

Mavs now in 9th place, today was the last day of the season that the mavs were in the playoffs. don't expect them to climb back into the race..even if they do, who cares bc it would be a 1st ruond sweep by the Lakers
We've got 3 more losses to look forward to this week. Mavs are gonna drive me to the bottle.

[Findog]

It hurts to see your favorite team in decline, and not be what they used to be. Hurts to see them like this. That's all I got.

[Ghazi]

Yeah, it really does hurt. and now I spend my days as a Mavs fan thinking what could've been... what if Bennet Salvatore swallowed his bullshit whistle or if D-Whistle missed a few bullshit shots... what if the Lakers or Clippers slid into that 8th seed instead of the Warriors.

I'm hurt :(

[DPG21920]

I am being serious when I say this. I hope Dirk becomes a Spur in 2010. He would fit nicely.

[Brickhouse]

This team is complete shit.

GOOO MARK AND DONNIE

[ManuTP9]

Blame it on the REFS!! lmao yeah right

[xtremesteven33]

I am being serious when I say this. I hope Dirk becomes a Spur in 2010. He would fit nicely.


that would be great.:flag:

[lurker]

http://regmedia.co.uk/2007/06/27/usb_panic_1.png
It's time to press it again, Cuban.

[SmellyFeet]

Do mavs still deserve suck a$$ threads?

[Rogue]

It doesn't matter to lost a game in the regular season.

GO Mavericks

[ClingingMars]

LOL, Mavs suck ass

-Mars

[dirk4mvp]

Fingering my asshole is a past time of mine.


-Mars

[monosylab1k]

fuck it

[ClingingMars]

The Mavericks suck dick

i should be a Spurs fan

[dirk4mvp]

Blame it on the REFS!! lmao yeah right


You Spurfans have that perfected


http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114147

[ClingingMars]

You Spurfans have that perfected


http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114147

except that's actually legit, asshole.

-Mars

[dirk4mvp]

except that's actually legit, asshole.

-Mars


I bet it is.

[Findog]

Yeah, it really does hurt. and now I spend my days as a Mavs fan thinking what could've been... what if Bennet Salvatore swallowed his bullshit whistle or if D-Whistle missed a few bullshit shots... what if the Lakers or Clippers slid into that 8th seed instead of the Warriors.

I'm hurt :(

Yeah, sports are like pets, since you end up investing more of your heart than you ever think you will. Nothing with the Cowboys and Rangers has ever made me sick to my stomach the way the Mavericks have. Miami and Golden State were such heartbreaks, so I wonder what it must've been like in that locker room. It's a blow to your spirit.

[Findog]

except that's actually legit, asshole.

-Mars

Shut the fuck up. Your next worthwhile post on this board will be your first.

[ClingingMars]

Shut the fuck up. Your next worthwhile post on this board will be your first.

:lmao quit the bullshit, you're just a hater. i just fuck around with dirk, but you're a real asshole.

-Mars

[Findog]

:lmao quit the bullshit, you're just a hater. i just fuck around with dirk, but you're a real asshole.

-Mars

I don't suffer fools lightly, so it's understandable why you would feel that way.

[Findog]

BTW, this team is going nowhere other than a 9 seed or first-round stomping at the hands of LA, so why not play Gerald Green more? He could end up being the answer at SG.

[SmellyFeet]

:lmao quit the bullshit, you're just a hater. i just fuck around with dirk, but you're a real asshole.

-Mars

Don't you have some crying to do about refs after getting anally raped by orlando?:toast

-smellyfeet.

[ClingingMars]

I don't suffer fools lightly, so it's understandable why you would feel that way.

:rolleyes

I'll just leave you to your miserable Mavs.

-Mars

[ClingingMars]

Don't you have some crying to do about refs after getting anally raped by orlando?:toast

-smellyfeet.

:lmao at Laker fans talking about refs when they get the best treatment wherever they go.

-Mars

[dirk4mvp]

BTW, this team is going nowhere other than a 9 seed or first-round stomping at the hands of LA, so why not play Gerald Green more? He could end up being the answer at SG.


It probably furiated every Mavs fan when he came in in garbage time against the suns and hit just about every shot he took. I'd sure as hell enjoy him getting minutes at 2 than anyone else not named Terry.

[Findog]

:rolleyes

I'll just leave you to your miserable Mavs.

-Mars

It's better to be me and root for the Mavs, than to be you and root for the Spurs.

[Ghazi]

It's hard for me to get mad at the players, it's not a lack of effort I'm seeing it's just mediocre basketball. We've never been at the top of the mountain but we've been near the top so long... 8 straight 50+ win seasons and 8 straight playoff appearances... a regression was inevitable and it appears its right now.

But I'm somewhat incredulous about it. I couldn't have seen this coming 2 years ago and its hit me like a fucking wall!

The Golden State series was heartbreaking but I thought there would be future opportunities at a title and now it looks like 06-07 was our last best chance and we happened to draw the worst possible matchup in the 1st round.

*sigh*, need some FUCKIN yay bro.

[ClingingMars]

It's better to be me and root for the Mavs, than to be you and root for the Spurs.

i seriously doubt that, because it's been a pretty fun season so far. The Spurs are actually "exciting" for once.

-Mars

[Findog]

It probably furiated every Mavs fan when he came in in garbage time and hit just about every shot he took. I'd sure as hell enjoy him getting minutes at 2 than anyone else not named Terry.

I'd do that deal for Felton, I'd trade Kidd to Portland for one of their pieces since they're loaded 1-12, I'd get what I could for Howard, or keep him, since his contract can be useful, all with an eye towards maintaining flexibility for 2010.

[Ghazi]

FWIW when I said players I was referring more or less to everyone other than J-Ho. Unfortunately at thispoint it's clear that J-Ho giving his best wouldn't really make us elite anyway.

[Findog]

i seriously doubt that, because it's been a pretty fun season so far.

-Mars

The Spurs are better than the Mavs no doubt, but I'm me, and you are you. That's just lopsided.

[ploto]

Top Performers
Sacramento
Beno Udrih
6-14, 16 Pts
5 Rebs, 6 Assists

No turnovers. :)

[dirk4mvp]

I'd do that deal for Felton, I'd trade Kidd to Portland for one of their pieces since they're loaded 1-12, I'd get what I could for Howard, or keep him, since his contract can be useful, all with an eye towards maintaining flexibility for 2010.


All these are great ideas, and I'm sure if another team was in the Mavs situation, they'd be pulling some strings getting something done.

[dirk4mvp]

The Spurs are better than the Mavs no doubt, but I'm me, and you are you. That's just lopsided.


:lol

[Findog]

All these are great ideas, and I'm sure if another team was in the Mavs situation, they'd be pulling some strings getting something done.

Kidd is not what he once was, but he's still a good player, and he'd be a huge upgrade over Steve Blake. I wonder if we could get Martell Webster for him. The only problem is he's got a $20 million cap figure that Portland would have to match, and I wouldn't be interested in taking back any salary that runs past 2010. I suppose you could throw the Raefist in there to help make the numbers work.

[DPG21920]

The Spurs are better than the Mavs no doubt, but I'm me, and you are you. That's just lopsided.

You are a malicious whore.

[Findog]

You are a malicious whore.

You forgot to include the link for your pithy comment:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114013

Now everybody will know what you're talking about. Nice try, kid.

[Ghazi]

Ugh, I don't wanna look forward to 2010... Dirk's gonna be 32 by then anyway and I doubt his production will be good enough to be the best player on a contending team at that point.

[Ghazi]

But then again, there doesn't seem to be much to look forward to this year .

A bad time to be a Mavs fan folks, a bad time indeed :(

[Findog]

Ugh, I don't wanna look forward to 2010... Dirk's gonna be 32 by then anyway and I doubt his production will be good enough to be the best player on a contending team at that point.

The Mavs current plan is to wait on pin needles for Chris Bosh to resign with Toronto for the max...or go join Bron-Bron in New York. They seem to suffer the delusion that he'll give us a hometown discount.

[DPG21920]

You forgot to include the link for your pithy comment:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114013

Now everybody will know what you're talking about. Nice try, kid.

You linked to a thread where you are crying about a girl you like telling you she circle jerked other dudes? Nice try, sweetheart.

[DPG21920]

I really hope that Dirk becomes a Spur. Take a discount, play with Tim and get your title. He deserves it.

[Findog]

You linked to a thread where you are crying about a girl you like telling you she circle jerked other dudes? Nice try, sweetheart.

That involves less loss of dignity that your posting in the Manu doesn't believe in God thread. I have nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed about, so I don't know why you would bring it up, since you have nothing to bring to the table.

[Findog]

It's about time for mono to come along and post the Arcade Fire Rebellion clip.

[dirk4mvp]

It's about time for mono to come along and post the Arcade Fire Rebellion clip.


I actually downloaded that song after the first time I saw that video :(

[DPG21920]

That involves less loss of dignity that your posting in the Manu doesn't believe in God thread. I have nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed about, so I don't know why you would bring it up, since you have nothing to bring to the table.

What is it you have to bring to the table by referencing the God thread? I have nothing to be embarrassed about. You were not involved in the convo, yet you pull it out every chance you get. I have long since had people in the God thread say the understood what I meant.

That was a debate, what you did was cry. I was just messing with you, but you cannot seem to take what you dish out. I bring plenty to this "table" and engage in many conversations. You just cry and act like a baby.

[SmellyFeet]

That involves less loss of dignity that your posting in the Manu doesn't believe in God thread. I have nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed about, so I don't know why you would bring it up, since you have nothing to bring to the table.

Oh shit, is he the fag who cried that manu was "insensitive" to the religious homos or something like that?

What a joke.

[SmellyFeet]

What is it you have to bring to the table by referencing the God thread? I have nothing to be embarrassed about. You were not involved in the convo, yet you pull it out every chance you get. I have long since had people in the God thread say the understood what I meant.

That was a debate, what you did was cry. I was just messing with you, but you cannot seem to take what you dish out. I bring plenty to this "table" and engage in many conversations. You just cry and act like a baby.

did manu hurt your feelings? should I call the whaaaambulance?

[Findog]

That was a debate, what you did was cry. I was just messing with you, but you cannot seem to take what you dish out. I bring plenty to this "table" and engage in many conversations. You just cry and act like a baby

Do you see me crying uncle? Where have I begged you to "stop messing with me?" You did the exact same thing I did recently: you posted a quote out of context that was an inside reference we both understood. Unlike you, I didn't complain about it, I even submitted a link so the other posters could get their chops in and get up to speed. I have plenty of thick skin, or otherwise I wouldn't be here.

[DPG21920]

Oh shit, is he the fag who cried that manu was "insensitive" to the religious homos or something like that?

What a joke.

Nope, I said Manu was dumb to discuss his personal life with fans. Especially since religion is such a touchy subject. I thought since many of his fans were from a heavily catholic country and the fact he was out with injury and fans were pissed at him for playing in the olympics, it was bad timing.

I do not care what he believes in.

[SmellyFeet]

Nope, I said Manu was dumb to discuss his personal life with fans. Especially since religion is such a touchy subject. I thought since many of his fans were from a heavily catholic country and the fact he was out with injury and fans were pissed at him for playing in the olympics, it was bad timing.

I do not care what he believes in.

You just mad cause manu is not a god fearing fag like you are.

You mad?

Yes you areeeeee.

[DPG21920]

Do you see me crying uncle? Where have I begged you to "stop messing with me?" You did the exact same thing I did recently: you posted a quote out of context that was an inside reference we both understood. Unlike you, I didn't complain about it, I even submitted a link so the other posters could get their chops in and get up to speed. I have plenty of thick skin, or otherwise I wouldn't be here.

Exactly. I did not cry. In fact I said that I have a sense of humor and I can take what I give out when you posted what you did. Which is why I posted what I did. You seemed to go all emo and post links to the thread.

[DPG21920]

You just mad cause manu is not a god fearing fag like you are.

You mad?

Yes you areeeeee.

Aren't you adorable.

[Findog]

Exactly. I did not cry. In fact I said that I have a sense of humor and I can take what I give out when you posted what you did. Which is why I posted what I did. You seemed to go all emo and post links to the thread.

Yeah, I'm slitting my wrists here over your devastating burn.

[Spurs Front Office]

Mavs are pathetic, sadly coming from the guys here at the office.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, I'm slitting my wrists here over your devastating burn.

It wasn't meant to hurt you. It was meant to jab at you with a reference that no one would understand, except you.

[Findog]

It wasn't meant to hurt you. It was meant to jab at you with a reference that no one would understand, except you.

I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore.

[DPG21920]

I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore.

We are not arguing. This is how we communicate bro.

[td4mvp21]

I'd rather have lost to the fucking Kings.

[Findog]

I'd rather have lost to the fucking Kings.

No, you don't.

[DPG21920]

But seriously, does anyone think Dirk would come to the Spurs? He would fit so well.

[Findog]

But seriously, does anyone think Dirk would come to the Spurs? He would fit so well.

I never thought Finley would, so anything is possible.

[DPG21920]

Well, he seems like the kind of guy to do something like that. He needs to be a major "second piece leader". Knowing that he could defer to Tim and Tony and Manu would be huge for him and would allow him just to play.

[td4mvp21]

No, you don't.

Ok, maybe not. But almost.

[GuerillaBlack]

But seriously, does anyone think Dirk would come to the Spurs? He would fit so well.

Could easily happen.

[Findog]

Well, he seems like the kind of guy to do something like that. He needs to be a major "second piece leader". Knowing that he could defer to Tim and Tony and Manu would be huge for him and would allow him just to play.

Ah, the backhanded compliment. Dirk is much better than either Tony or Manu, much much better than you give him credit for.

[DPG21920]

Ah, the backhanded compliment. Dirk is much better than either Tony or Manu, much much better than you give him credit for.

I am a huge fan of Dirk. I would trade Manu for Dirk right now. But I feel all things considered, Tony is better and so is Tim, so he would be "second fiddle". Which could be good for him. Some players are not "floor leaders", does not mean they are not great players.

[dirk4mvp]

I am a huge fan of Dirk. I would trade Manu for Dirk right now. But I feel all things considered, Tony is better and so is Tim, so he would be "second fiddle". Which could be good for him. Some players are not "floor leaders", does not mean they are not great players.

Wow. You may be the only person alive who thinks Tony Parker is a better basketball player than Dirk Nowitzki.

[SmellyFeet]

Wow. You may be the only person alive who thinks Tony Parker is a better basketball player than Dirk Nowitzki.

It's not like there's a shortage of retards in the world. I bet he's trade manu because he's still mad about him not believing in god:lol

[dirk4mvp]

It's not like there's a shortage of retards in the world. I bet he's trade manu because he's still mad about him not believing in god:lol


Seriously, there are some stupid things said on this board, but that is kind of taking it to another level.

[SmellyFeet]

Seriously, there are some stupid things said on this board, but that is kind of taking it to another level.

Meh, some laker fan thinks kobe was the best player since 2000. There's an asshat fan on every team pretty much.

[Findog]

I am a huge fan of Dirk. I would trade Manu for Dirk right now. But I feel all things considered, Tony is better and so is Tim, so he would be "second fiddle". Which could be good for him. Some players are not "floor leaders", does not mean they are not great players.

:rolleyes

[ElNono]

Not surprisingly, the first post currently on Cuban's blog is about the Cubs. Somebody tell him his beloved Mavs need some attention...

[DPG21920]

What is wrong with saying Tony is better than Dirk when Dirk would become a Spur? I said all things considered; meaning that Tony is much younger and will be the one presumably leading the Spurs by that point or up there with Tim.

Ya, it is so outlandish to say a finals MVP is better than Dirk. Get off the horse.

[Findog]

What is wrong with saying Tony is better than Dirk when Dirk would become a Spur?


It just makes you sound like an idiot. I'd still take a 32-yr-old Dirk than a 28-yr-old Parker.



Ya, it is so outlandish to say a finals a Finals MVP is better than Dirk. Get off the horse.


That Finals MVP means about as much as your typical Super Bowl MVP. Tony Parker is a very good player who looks better than he really is because of Tim Duncan. The idea that he could be a franchise player or have that kind of performance against Cleveland without Tim is laughable.

[Shank]

Not surprisingly, the first post currently on Cuban's blog is about the Cubs. Somebody tell him his beloved Mavs need some attention...

This is because neither he, or Donnie, know what the fuck they're doing with this franchise. Donnie is like Howard Hughes now. We haven't seen or heard from the guy in months and when he does speak, it's total bullshit.

Fuck this.

[DPG21920]

It just makes you sound like an idiot. I'd still take a 32-yr-old Dirk than a 28-yr-old Parker.




That Finals MVP means about as much as your typical Super Bowl MVP. Tony Parker is a very good player who looks better than he really is because of Tim Duncan. The idea that he could be a franchise player or have that kind of performance against Cleveland without Tim is laughable.

Ya because I bet every team in the league when asked would say they would rather have dirk than TP:rolleyes.

You are making it seem like I am saying Dirk sucks. Not true. Good to know that you are the one that determines worth of the awards handed out; talk about sounding like an idiot. Trying to devalue the Finals MVP. People often say that legends are made in the finals, when it is all on the line, not the regualr season. Finals MVP is just as good as regular season MVP imo. It means you came up biggest when it mattered the most. Ask Dirk which he would rather have.

[sonic21]

I am being serious when I say this. I hope Dirk becomes a Spur in 2010. He would fit nicely.

:tu

he's my favourite non-spurs player

[Findog]

Ya because I bet every team in the league when asked would say they would rather have dirk than TP:rolleyes.


Every coach would take Dirk. Just about every GM would take Dirk. I'm sure when TP is 30 and Dirk is 34, your boy will be the more desirable player. But that's certainly not true now and I doubt it will be in 2010.

[DPG21920]

Every coach would take Dirk. Just about every GM would take Dirk. I'm sure when TP is 30 and Dirk is 34, your boy will be the more desirable player. But that's certainly not true now and I doubt it will be in 2010.

Definitely not true now, I was saying in 2010. It could be argued, especially if Tony keeps progressing as he has. To say I am an idiot for suggesting it is off-base.

[dirk4mvp]

Definitely not true now, I was saying in 2010. It could be argued, especially if Tony keeps progressing as he has. To say I am an idiot for suggesting it is off-base.


No, to say that is pretty straight on considering the only people who would say that are Spur homers like yourself.

[Findog]

Does anybody have one of those shot charts for Tony Parker? He shoots a very high % from the floor, and I'm willing to bet that's on dribble penetration. I've never thought of him as having a reliable jumper.

[sonic21]

Definitely not true now, I was saying in 2010. It could be argued, especially if Tony keeps progressing as he has. To say I am an idiot for suggesting it is off-base.

well dirk is a shooter, i think he'll still as good in two years.

[dirk4mvp]

well dirk is a shooter, i think he'll still as good in two years.


Yep. Much like Duncan, Dirk's game relies on skill, rather than athleticism.

[DPG21920]

Does anybody have one of those shot charts for Tony Parker? He shoots a very high % from the floor, and I'm willing to bet that's on dribble penetration. I've never thought of him as having a reliable jumper.

Reliable is the right term. It is respectable enough that teams have to respect it somewhat. Teams do try and game plan to make him a shooter (go under on pick and roll) but he has thwarted that many times. Here is his sweet spot chart, it shows he is a pretty good shooter outside the paint.

http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

[DPG21920]

well dirk is a shooter, i think he'll still as good in two years.

I think he has more than 2 good years. But I think Tony, has a skill set (on both ends) that is better than Dirks will be in 2 years. TP should be in his prime. Dirk will still be very, very good. Just do not think that at that point in time he can be the man. Especially if he was on the Spurs, which is what I was talking about.

[Findog]

well dirk is a shooter, i think he'll still as good in two years.

He'll lose some quickness and agility as he gets older, and like all guys once they get into their mid to late thirties, he'll be more susceptible to injuries. But as long as he can shoot, he'll have value to a team. He won't be getting any shorter, so he'll still be able to shoot over guys with that high release point.

[Findog]

I think he has more than 2 good years. But I think Tony, has a skill set (on both ends) that is better than Dirks will be in 2 years. TP should be in his prime. Dirk will still be very, very good. Just do not think that at that point in time he can be the man. Especially if he was on the Spurs, which is what I was talking about.

You don't know that. Parker has been in the NBA since he was 19. Age isn't the # to go with here, it's mileage. McGrady isn't in his prime, which is commonly thought of as between 28-31. He's got a lot of mileage on his tires. If Tony Parker is a better player in 2010, it will be because Dirk also has been in the league since he was 19 years old and has a lot of wear and tear, not because Tony Parker is in "his prime" and Dirk is past his. I don't see Parker really getting any better, and without Tim around in his current incarnation, Parker's effectiveness may be muted somewhat if defenses can key on him.

[DPG21920]

He'll lose some quickness and agility as he gets older, and like all guys once they get into their mid to late thirties, he'll be more susceptible to injuries. But as long as he can shoot, he'll have value to a team. He won't be getting any shorter, so he'll still be able to shoot over guys with that high release point.

So how does that mean he will be better than TP at age 32? Especially with Tony progressing, improving his shot and being in his prime.

[DPG21920]

You don't know that. Parker has been in the NBA since he was 19. Age isn't the # to go with here, it's mileage. McGrady isn't in his prime, which is commonly thought of as between 28-31. He's got a lot of mileage on his tires. If Tony Parker is a better player in 2010, it will be because Dirk also has been in the league since he was 19 years old and has a lot of wear and tear, not because Tony Parker is in "his prime" and Dirk is past his.

What does that matter. If he is better, than he is better. Do not get caught up in the age, it is just a reference point.

[Findog]

So how does that mean he will be better than TP at age 32? Especially with Tony progressing, improving his shot and being in his prime.

I wasn't talking about Dirk vs. Tony in 2010, I was talking about Dirk in his mid to late thirties, when most guys are washed up.

[Findog]

What does that matter. If he is better, than he is better. Do not get caught up in the age, it is just a reference point.

Exactly...which is why I'm saying that some of these guys who entered the league in their teens may not have the career arc that we expect, when you typically expect a dude to have his prime between 28-31. Look at McGrady, his body is breaking down when he should be at his peak. My point is that I would not at all be surprised if Tony Parker has reached his apex.

[DPG21920]

I wasn't talking about Dirk vs. Tony in 2010, I was talking about Dirk in his mid to late thirties, when most guys are washed up.

Who said Dirk would be washed up. He will still be a baller, but probably not as dominate as he is today. TP has no where to go but up still and he has improved in every aspect of his game. I do not see why this seems so outlandish?

[td4mvp21]

Does anybody have one of those shot charts for Tony Parker? He shoots a very high % from the floor, and I'm willing to bet that's on dribble penetration. I've never thought of him as having a reliable jumper.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08SAS1.HTM

45.9% on jumpers. Not bad if you ask me.

[Johnny RIngo]

What is wrong with saying Tony is better than Dirk when Dirk would become a Spur? I said all things considered; meaning that Tony is much younger and will be the one presumably leading the Spurs by that point or up there with Tim.

Ya, it is so outlandish to say a finals MVP is better than Dirk. Get off the horse.

Parker is not better than Dirk. It's a bit of an insult to compare a 2nd option player like Parker to a perennial all star.

[DPG21920]

Exactly...which is why I'm saying that some of these guys who entered the league in their teens may not have the career arc that we expect, when you typically expect a dude to have his prime between 28-31. Look at McGrady, his body is breaking down when he should be at his peak. [SIZE="2"][B]My point is that I would not at all be surprised if Tony Parker has reached his apex.

Well there is where we disagree then. I have seen Tony still progress and add onto his game. He is not losing quickness and has vastly improved his shooting as evidenced by the shot chart I linked for you.

[DPG21920]

Parker is not better than Dirk. It's a bit of an insult to compare a 2nd option player like Parker to a perennial all star.

Talk to me in 2 years. TP is only a "second option" player on the Spurs, even though he is the leading scorer.

[de Soto]

Yes. mavs DID LOSE AGAIN.

BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

[Findog]

Dirk appears to have peaked in 05-07, when he was 27-29 years old. If you look at his stats for the past two seasons, there's a small but perceptible decline in his shooting %s. I think a lot of the straight to the pros guys will have similar career arcs. Dirk has been in the league 11 years, and he's played starters minutes for 10 of them.

[DPG21920]

Dirk appears to have peaked in 05-07, when he was 27-29 years old. If you look at his stats for the past two seasons, there's a small but perceptible decline in his shooting %s. I think a lot of the straight to the pros guys will have similar career arcs. Dirk has been in the league 11 years, and he's played starters minutes for 10 of them.

Tony's shooting percentage are rising still.

[Findog]

Steve Nash, by contrast, played 4 years of college ball, spent his first 2 years in Arizona, the first buried deep on the bench and the second on the fringes of the Suns' rotation. Then he was hurt a lot his first two years in Dallas. He didn't play a full 70+ games of starter minutes until he was 27 years old. People are surprised that he had his best years between the ages of 31-34 in Phoenix, and some of that is D'Antoni's system inflating his #'s, but it's also an effect of him not accumulating much wear and tear his first four years in the league.

[Findog]

Tony's shooting percentage are rising still.

I'm not comparing Dirk to Tony, since that's an insult to Dirk. I'm talking about guys who went straight to the pros and my belief that they tend to peak out at the ages of 26-29 instead of 28-31.

[DPG21920]

I'm not comparing Dirk to Tony, since that's an insult to Dirk. I'm talking about guys who went straight to the pros and my belief that they tend to peak out at the ages of 26-29 instead of 28-31.

It is not an insult to say that in 2 years, TP will surpass Dirk, come off it.

[DPG21920]

But you will compare Nash to Dirk and that is not an insult. Tony is every bit as good as Nash as an all around player.

[de Soto]

Dirk appears to have peaked in 05-07, when he was 27-29 years old.

Yes, he is more like Dirt these days.

[Johnny RIngo]

Talk to me in 2 years. TP is only a "second option" player on the Spurs, even though he is the leading scorer.

Huh? Parker's drive to the basket game is predicated on the bigs having to stay with Duncan. I remember a stretch of games, last year, where he shot poorly while Duncan was out with an injury. He's a good player but not a franchise calibre player

[Findog]

But you will compare Nash to Dirk and that is not an insult. Tony is every bit as good as Nash as an all around player.

We're talking past each other. I'm not comparing Dirk's game to Nash. I was making an observation that a player's age is somewhat important, because you lose quickness and agility and become more susceptible to injuries the further you get into your thirties. What is equally important is minutes played and when a guy came into the league. Dirk and Parker were both 19 year old rookies and have been playing starters minutes since they joined the league. It's premature to expect them to have the typical "prime" between 28-31. Dirk's showing a small decline in his numbers from his peak of 05-07. Tony Parker will probably also peak out between 26-28 instead of 28-31. Nash, on the other hand, was a 23-yr-old rookie and didn't play much until he was 27. People seem surprised that he had his prime between 31-34 and I think the lack of wear and tear is the reason.

[ElNono]

They're different players. Dirk is incredibly talented shooting-wise, while Tony lives off the explosion of his first step and penetration. Tony has improved both in his basketball IQ and his jumper over the years, while Dirk has pretty much stayed the same (we're still waiting for a post move that doesn't involve a fadeaway jumper).
At any rate, neither makes their teammates better, IMO. And I think that's a crucial quality reserved to true superstars in this league.

[Findog]

They're different players. Dirk is incredibly talented shooting-wise, while Tony lives off the explosion of his first step and penetration. Tony has improved both in his basketball IQ and his jumper over the years, while Dirk has pretty much stayed the same (we're still waiting for a post move that doesn't involve a fadeaway jumper).
At any rate, neither makes their teammates better, IMO. And I think that's a crucial quality reserved to true superstars in this league.

Dirk has more of an impact on a game than Parker does, therefore he's the better player. We'll see if that is still true in 2010.

[DPG21920]

We're talking past each other. I'm not comparing Dirk's game to Nash. I was making an observation that a player's age is somewhat important, because you lose quickness and agility and become more susceptible to injuries the further you get into your thirties. What is equally important is minutes played and when a guy came into the league. Dirk and Parker were both 19 year old rookies and have been playing starters minutes since they joined the league. It's premature to expect them to have the typical "prime" between 28-31. Dirk's showing a small decline in his numbers from his peak of 05-07. Tony Parker will probably also peak out between 26-28 instead of 28-31. Nash, on the other hand, was a 23-yr-old rookie and didn't play much until he was 27. People seem surprised that he had his prime between 31-34 and I think the lack of wear and tear is the reason.

I agree with your logic and that is my point. In 2010, TP will be peeking and Dirk has already started to decline (even though he is still elite). So, if Dirk is already declining, TP is rising, then in 2 years I say TP is the better player.

[Johnny RIngo]

But you will compare Nash to Dirk and that is not an insult. Tony is every bit as good as Nash as an all around player.

So? Nash isn't really a franchise player anyway(he didn't deserve either of his MVPs) The current Suns team has never made the Finals because they've never had a legit first option to build around. Shaq's the closest they've come but he's too old to shoulder the load like he used to in his prime.

[Findog]

I agree with your logic and that is my point. In 2010, TP will be peeking and Dirk has already started to decline (even though he is still elite). So, if Dirk is already declining, TP is rising, then in 2 years I say TP is the better player.

We'll see. Dirk is arguably a franchise player, while Parker seems like a classic second option. Whether Parker can close that gap in two years, we shall see.

[ElNono]

We'll see. Dirk is arguably a franchise player, while Parker seems like a classic second option. Whether Parker can close that gap in two years, we shall see.

This is where we don't agree. I think the Mavs want him to be (just like Memphis wanted Gasol to be), but I don't think it's panning out. And for the record, Tony is definitely not a franchise player.

[DPG21920]

We'll see. Dirk is arguably a franchise player, while Parker seems like a classic second option. Whether Parker can close that gap in two years, we shall see.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Handshake.svg/800px-

[Findog]

This is where we don't agree. I think the Mavs want him to be (just like Memphis wanted Gasol to be), but I don't think it's panning out. And for the record, Tony is definitely not a franchise player.

I've expounded on this before, but I think that right now there are only four true #1 options in the league: Bron, Timmy, Kobe and Wade. Then you have your second options, guys like Manu or TP, Josh Howard circa 2006. You can win a title if your best player is LeBron, Duncan, Kobe or Wade. You can win a title if your second-best player is Parker, Manu or 2006 Josh Howard. Dirk, on the other hand, strikes me as a 1.5 player: he's clearly better than a second option, but he's just not quite in that Bron/Tim/Kobe/Wade class. You can win a title with Dirk as your best player, but you would need somebody alongside almost as good. Dirk came up 2 wins short with Jason Terry and Josh as his sidekicks. Garnett and Pierce are 1.5's, which is why the Celtics were able to win a title.

[Johnny RIngo]

This is where we don't agree. I think the Mavs want him to be (just like Memphis wanted Gasol to be), but I don't think it's panning out. And for the record, Tony is definitely not a franchise player.

The Gasol comparison's unfair to Dirk. Gasol never did much in Memphis outside of one 50 win season while Dirk's lead his team to Finals and has had multiple 60 win seasons.

[Findog]

I think Chris Paul is a 1.5, and has a good chance to ascend to that 1 category.

[Ditty]

the only thing that made me happy all day yesterday

[ElNono]

I've expounded on this before, but I think that right now there are only four true #1 options in the league: Bron, Timmy, Kobe and Wade. Then you have your second options, guys like Manu or TP, Josh Howard circa 2006. You can win a title if your best player is LeBron, Duncan, Kobe or Wade. You can win a title if your second-best player is Parker, Manu or 2006 Josh Howard. Dirk, on the other hand, strikes me as a 1.5 player: he's clearly better than a second option, but he's just not quite in that Bron/Tim/Kobe/Wade class. You can win a title with Dirk as your best player, but you would need somebody alongside almost as good. Dirk came up 2 wins short with Jason Terry and Josh as his sidekicks. Garnett and Pierce are 1.5's, which is why the Celtics were able to win a title.

I agree. And JHo used to be playing at that 1.5 level back then. Which makes his current slump even more aggravating.

[ElNono]

The Gasol comparison's unfair to Dirk. Gasol never did much in Memphis outside of one 50 win season while Dirk's lead his team to Finals and has had multiple 60 win seasons.

I'm not comparing players, just roles assigned to them by their respective teams back then. I would actually argue that if Gasol had a player like JHo, playing at the level he was playing two years ago, plus a Stackhouse that used to play pretty well off the bench those days, Gasol would have had the 60+ wins seasons. Whould he have won a championship? Very doubtful.

[Brazil]

I've expounded on this before, but I think that right now there are only four true #1 options in the league: Bron, Timmy, Kobe and Wade. Then you have your second options, guys like Manu or TP, Josh Howard circa 2006. You can win a title if your best player is LeBron, Duncan, Kobe or Wade. You can win a title if your second-best player is Parker, Manu or 2006 Josh Howard. Dirk, on the other hand, strikes me as a 1.5 player: he's clearly better than a second option, but he's just not quite in that Bron/Tim/Kobe/Wade class. You can win a title with Dirk as your best player, but you would need somebody alongside almost as good. Dirk came up 2 wins short with Jason Terry and Josh as his sidekicks. Garnett and Pierce are 1.5's, which is why the Celtics were able to win a title.

I agree with that. You have to add CP3 like a 1,5. I'm a big TP homer but for the moment Dirk is a kind of 1,8 and TP a 1,5. Time will tell us if TP can be a franchise player but I'm honestly not sure, anyway we haven't a lot of PGs being a franchise player, nash ? cp3 ?
Now considering the ages, I wouldn't go for a dirk / tp trade.

For the rest I still think that the Mavs will make the PO.

[dirk4mvp]

I'm not comparing players, just roles assigned to them by their respective teams back then. I would actually argue that if Gasol had a player like JHo, playing at the level he was playing two years ago, plus a Stackhouse that used to play pretty well off the bench those days, Gasol would have had the 60+ wins seasons. Whould he have won a championship? Very doubtful.


People (not you in particular) can call Dirk weak minded all they want, but I'd bet a large sum of money that even with a J-Ho and Stack with him, that Gasol wouldn't eliminate his team's biggest rival on their floor or put 50 against the Suns to turn that series completely around in his team's favor.

[sonic21]

People (not you in particular) can call Dirk weak minded all they want, but I'd bet a large sum of money that even with a J-Ho and Stack with him, that Gasol wouldn't eliminate his team's biggest rival on their floor or put 50 against the Suns to turn that series completely around in his team's favor.

:tu
and gasol had a very good team in memphis
battier, williams, Miller, Posey, swift ....

i'm sure dirk would have won some playoffs game (unlike gasol)

[dirk4mvp]

:tu
and gasol had a very good team in memphis
battier, williams, Miller, Posey, swift ....

i'm sure dirk would have won some playoffs game (unlike gasol)


Gasol actually had a chance to win his first playoff game against Dallas, but Dirk hit a 3 with a few seconds left to send it to overtime (I remember it clear cause I was there :lol)

[ElNono]

People (not you in particular) can call Dirk weak minded all they want, but I'd bet a large sum of money that even with a J-Ho and Stack with him, that Gasol wouldn't eliminate his team's biggest rival on their floor or put 50 against the Suns to turn that series completely around in his team's favor.

It's a completely different situation. Dallas had a great coach that had them on a mission. The team had an identity, and the coach would make Dirk be the man. Gasol is a pretty darn good post player. His problem in Memphis was that until Gay came around, nobody could create his own shot (and this goes to answer the other post too), Mike Miller, Battier, Posey, Swift, etc they couldn't create a shot on their own even today. Hubie Brown makes a good TV commentator, but he had his work cut out for him while he was coaching there.
It's no surprise that with Phil as coach, a superstar to carry the load and good pieces around him, Gasol now looks like a superstar out there (prompting the ridiculous thread we saw on this very forum). On the other hand, what I've seen from Dirk since Carslile has come around, is delegation. He passes even when the going gets tough for the Mavs. I've seen quite a few games this season, and I see Jason Terry taking (and delivering, I should add) the tough shots out there most of the time. I think Avery forced Dirk to be the man out there, and live with the consequences, and I'm not sure Dirk really wants to be in that position.