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View Full Version : Game Thoughts: Spurs vs. Magic Jan. 11



timvp
01-12-2009, 07:50 AM
The Orlando Magic came to San Antonio as the best road team in the NBA and left with another notch on their belt. Out-executing the Spurs down the stretch, the Magic were able to pull away late and capture a 105-98 victory.

The biggest play of the game came with about two and a half minutes left in the contest. After Manu Ginobili tied the game at 94, the Spurs were clamping down on D for a stop. However, with just a few seconds on the shot clock, Roger Mason, Jr. inexplicably double-teamed Dwight Howard and in doing so left JJ Redick wide open for a three-pointer. The Magic would never trail again in the contest.

Orlando deserves a lot of props for the win. Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu and Jameer Nelson all played very well. Stan Van Gundy also drew up a masterful gameplan that both limited San Antonio’s three-point opportunities and forced the Spurs to scramble to cover Orlando’s long range shooters. It’ll be tough for the Magic to make it to the Finals this season but they have the look of a legitimate championship contender.

As for the Spurs, it was a difficult loss. The only bright spot is that they can point to one statistic as the reason for the defeat – three-pointers. The Magic hit a stunning 14-of-22 from beyond the three-point arc compared to 3-of-13 for the Spurs. In virtually every other statistic, the Spurs had the edge. That said, a loss is a loss and the Spurs still have a lot to prove – especially against the better teams in the league.

Tim Duncan
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3173.jpg
37 minutes, 18 points, ten rebounds, five assists, three blocks
7-for-14 from the field, 4-for-4 from the line

Tim Duncan came out of the gates on fire offensively, cooled off for a large stretch in the middle and then closed the game decently. Although Howard deserves some credit for defending him well, the Spurs could have used a more demonstrative and aggressive Duncan in the final three quarters. On defense, Duncan didn’t start out too well but eventually got into a good groove defending Howard. Overall, it was an acceptable effort but the Spurs needed an exceptional effort – especially considering that the Magic weren’t sending many double-teams Duncan’s way.
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Manu Ginobili
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3380.jpg
32 minutes, 18 points, four assists, three rebounds, four turnovers
5-for-13 from the field, 1-for-5 on three-pointers, 7-for-7 at the line

As has been the case lately, Manu Ginobili’s stats look solid outside of his three-point shooting. However, this time Ginobili’s impact wasn’t nearly as positive. He seemed to have difficulty getting into a rhythm on both ends of the court. Ginobili was either trying to do too much or not doing enough. His team-worst plus/minus of -19 is indicative of his struggles on the night. One of his main issues is his three-point shooting. Connecting on just 16.7% of his threes in his last five games seems to have robbed him of some of his confidence and has made him indecisive at times. The good news is that he got to the free throw line seven times for a new season-high mark.
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Tony Parker
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3527.jpg
37 minutes, 31 points, six assists, three rebounds
13-for-22 from the field, 1-for-2 on three-pointers, 4-for-4 at the line

Tony Parker had a peculiar game. He played really well for the first three quarters and then appeared to simply run out of gas down the stretch. In his first 27 minutes, Parker had 29 points and six assists. In his ten minute stretch in the fourth quarter, Parker had only two points on 1-for-4 shooting and didn’t have his usual elevation on two late shots at the rim. Parker’s defense also suffered in the fourth. Heading into the fourth, he had limited Nelson to ten points on 4-for-12 shooting. In the final stanza, Nelson had 12 points in ten minutes. Parker’s fourth quarters struggles tarnished an otherwise fine performance and were strange because the fourth has been his most productive quarter this season.
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Michael Finley
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3023.jpg
31 minutes, ten points, three rebounds, three assists
4-for-9 from the field, 0-for-3 on three-pointers, 2-for-2 at the line

Michael Finley was the one player outside of the Big Three to find a way to hit double figures. He played hard and contributed offensively despite missing all three of his shots from beyond the arc. Defensively, Finley was mostly above average and even made a few of the better perimeter rotations for the Spurs on the night. And, for the first time in eight games, Finley drew a foul to get to the free throw line.
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Roger Mason, Jr.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3628.jpg
33 minutes, five points, four rebounds, three assists
2-for-4 from the field, 1-for-1 on three-pointers

Roger Mason, Jr. had a quiet night. With the Magic keying on him, he only got four shot attempts in 33 minutes. To his credit, he made a few good passes to help out a bit offensively despite the lack of attempts. The shame about his botched late game defensive rotation is that he had actually been playing good defense up until that point.
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Matt Bonner
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3748.jpg
27 minutes, four points, seven rebounds, two steals
2-for-4 from the field, 0-for-1 on three-pointers

Like Mason, the Magic purposely tried to limit Bonner’s looks. With a small forward on him for most of the game, Bonner had a tough time getting open. A good sign is that Bonner stuck with it and scored both of his hoops in the final half of the fourth quarter – a point of the game in which production out of Bonner isn’t very common. Defensively, he actually defended Lewis quite well for long stretches. More good news is that Bonner finally had a good rebounding game. The seven boards were the most he’s had since the fateful Hornets game.
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Bruce Bowen
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3167.jpg
21 minutes, three rebounds
0-for-1 from the field

Bruce Bowen didn’t have a very good game. He was scoreless on the offensive end and he didn’t make too much of a difference on the other end. Bowen’s defensive rotations weren't very sharp and he got beat in a few one-on-one situations. The only aspect of the game where he was helpful was on the defensive boards.
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George Hill
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/4488.jpg
12 minutes, four points, two rebounds
2-for-5 from the field, 0-for-1 on three-pointers

George Hill wasn’t horrible but he also wasn’t as good as he was in his last two outings. His defensive intensity wasn’t at its highest level and he wasn’t aggressive enough offensively. When he attacks the rim with a purpose, he’s good at making plays. But when he goes to the rim unsure of himself, he oftentimes gets caught in no man’s land.
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Kurt Thomas
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3012.jpg
11 minutes, eight points, three rebounds
4-for-5 from the field

Kurt Thomas had his second consecutive quality showing. On offense, he was setting mean screens and connected on four shots from the perimeter. Defensively, Thomas roamed the paint well, rebounded with authority and played physical post defense. He basically played how the Spurs hoped he’d play when they traded for him last season.
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Gregg Popovich
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/popovich_gregg030428.jpg

Although it’s tough to beat a team that is shooting lights out, Pop probably would have changed a few things if he could go back and do it again. First of all, it became pretty apparent that Parker needed a few more minutes of rest before his final stint. Also, a few more minutes of Thomas in place of Duncan probably would have helped Duncan at the end. With as much attention as the Big Three were getting, I didn’t think it made much sense for Pop to continually draw up plays for Duncan and Ginobili. More plays for Mason, Bonner or Finley could have helped lighten the load and allowed for more Big Three juice at the end.
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Offense

The Spurs did enough offensively to win the game. If the Spurs score 98 points, they should come out victorious. On the night, San Antonio shot 50.6% from the field, connected on all 17 of their free throw attempts and had 23 assists to only 11 turnovers. The 3-for-13 three-point shooting wasn’t too helpful and it’d be nice if the Spurs could make life easier by getting to the line more often.

Defense

It’d be easy to say that the Spurs played good defense if you ignore the three-point shooting, but it wasn’t like the Magic hit 14 contested three-pointers. In fact, most of their 14 three-pointers were wide open looks. The Spurs were just not very quick on the perimeter rotations, didn’t pick up three-point shooters well enough in transition and collapsed too much on penetration. For the game, the Magic shot 63.6% on three-pointers, 42.3% on two-pointers, hit 19-of-23 from the line and had 22 assists. The Magic only had six offensive rebounds and were outrebounded by a final count of 38-33.

Drive to Five

That was a tough loss to swallow and I’m sure the Spurs players, coaches and fans will have dreams of raining three-pointers. However, the most important thing now is to forget about the Magic and prepare for the test we’ve all been waiting for – the Los Angeles Lakers. On Wednesday, the Spurs and Lakers will rekindle their rivalry in the AT&T Center. A win would be a good way to forget all about the loss against Orlando.

Believe.

tlongII
01-12-2009, 08:12 AM
At least timvp didn't blame the officiating!

Spurs Brazil
01-12-2009, 08:19 AM
Spurs 17-17 from FT line was impressive, too bad the perimeter D was awful

amy020
01-12-2009, 08:27 AM
I really hope Manu's three will become as good as he shot last season.His layup is good now. It seems he can't miss the three during the practice but when it comes to game,the ball just can't go in.
And hope Pop can give Hill more time on the court.

urunobili
01-12-2009, 08:57 AM
fuck the refs

Brazil
01-12-2009, 09:06 AM
Overall the big 3 played very well: 67 pts at 25-49, 15 assists, 16 rebounds and 15 FTs at 100%. I am not sure but I think that it is one of the best performance of the big 3 since the beginning of the season. Moreover we have dominated all the numbers of this game : steals, turnovers, rebounds, assists, FG, FTs.

I'm not concerned by this loss, they beat us on the 3 points shooting, it happens. It's also quite funny because the spurs have won a lot of games with the 3 points quite logical to loose a few by this manner. Globally if we compare the two games, the team has made a lot of progress.

benefactor
01-12-2009, 09:11 AM
Good game thoughts. I also noticed that Parker looked like he was out of gas late in the game. Not only did he miss those gimmes at the rim but Nelson blew by him on several possessions in a row. Pop has got to start trusting Hill for longer than 12 minutes. Hopefully as we move into the RRT he will.

Speaking of trust I think what you mentioned about mixing it up and running more plays for the role players is almost as important as our porous perimeter defense. Pop needs to go back to some of what he did last year when he started the second half of a couple of playoff games by running some set plays for Finley...except Mason needs to be the beneficiary this time. We need his points from behind the arc and he needs to know that he is more than just the bailout shooter if a play for Parker/Duncan doesn't work.

I know Parker roaming with the ball looking to create is something we do a lot...and it works out a lot of the time...but if we want to find ways to get some of our important role players involved we should probably do a little less of it. This goes for Manu too. I don't mind them doing what they do as stars of our team, but we would be better served having a little more of a balanced attack on the offensive end...both to keep them from forcing and to get others involved instead of letting them be spectators.

polandprzem
01-12-2009, 09:15 AM
Spurs do not have a big load of games lately so why Parker was out of gas?
He was not playing 45 minutes so it is strange.

DarrinS
01-12-2009, 11:57 AM
The only thing I took away from this game is that Orlando is a pretty damn good team and should probably make a very good run in the playoffs.

phyzik
01-12-2009, 12:01 PM
The reason we lost is solely on TimVP's shoulders. There was no vBookie and because of that he jinxed us. :wakeup

Ed Helicopter Jones
01-12-2009, 12:55 PM
Thanks Timvp. I wasn't able to watch the game last night, so I was looking for your recap.

Shastafarian
01-12-2009, 01:02 PM
It should be noted that Tony didn't have an assist in the second half, not just the fourth.

sonic21
01-12-2009, 01:56 PM
thanks timvp :tu

NFGIII
01-12-2009, 02:04 PM
Thanks for the recap. If our perimeter D was better and contesting those 3's I think we pull out the win. That was the only thing that I really didn't like - uncontested 3 pt shots. Film session on this one would be fun to attend. I'm pretty sure Pop will focus on the perimeter D.

And if history repeats itself the Spurs will pay attention to this in the future and improve on it. They always do.

:flag:

beachwood
01-12-2009, 03:10 PM
A shame Mason only took 4 shots. He deserves a lot more than that.

Ditty
01-12-2009, 03:14 PM
The only thing I took away from this game is that Orlando is a pretty damn good team and should probably make a very good run in the playoffs.

maybe they can go through boston and clevland so theyll be tired if they play us in the finals

so we can get revenge :)

EricB
01-12-2009, 03:56 PM
It should be noted that Tony didn't have an assist in the second half, not just the fourth.


Yeah its called teammates missing shots, or again

for the millionth time thats been mentioned

the offense the Spurs run is not condusive to high assist numbers by the point guard.

:bang

ClingingMars
01-12-2009, 04:02 PM
fuck the refs

DarrinS
01-12-2009, 04:14 PM
maybe they can go through boston and clevland so theyll be tired if they play us in the finals

so we can get revenge :)


Whoever comes out of the East is gonna be a lot more beat up than in previous seasons.

Bruno
01-12-2009, 04:15 PM
Udoka last niche was as smallball PF. Against Magic, Spurs have played more than 20min of smallball, some of the wing players weren't playing well and Pop didn't use Udoka.
It really doesn't look good for Ime. He will have a hard time leaving Pop's doghouse.

papashango
01-12-2009, 04:18 PM
Yeah its called teammates missing shots, or again

for the millionth time thats been mentioned

the offense the Spurs run is not condusive to high assist numbers by the point guard.

:bang

His "teammates" made shots fine. And for a guy who plays on a team that doesn't allow the pg to have high assist numbers how in the hell did he have 6 assists in the 1st half?

Brazil
01-12-2009, 04:52 PM
His "teammates" made shots fine. And for a guy who plays on a team that doesn't allow the pg to have high assist numbers how in the hell did he have 6 assists in the 1st half?

nobody is saying TP is perfect, he has played great in the first 3 and he had a very difficult 4th.

NFGIII
01-12-2009, 05:09 PM
Udoka last niche was as smallball PF. Against Magic, Spurs have played more than 20min of smallball, some of the wing players weren't playing well and Pop didn't use Udoka.
It really doesn't look good for Ime. He will have a hard time leaving Pop's doghouse.

Agreed about Ime. Too bad since when he first came to the Spurs I had high hopes that he could be Bowen's replacement. Unfortunately I was mistaken as Kobe pretty much exposed that idea in the WCF. Too slow and Timvp has lamented that very point on a regular basis when discussing how the Spurs and Lakers match up.

Solid D
01-12-2009, 06:49 PM
Tony Parker had a peculiar game. He played really well for the first three quarters and then appeared to simply run out of gas down the stretch.

True...except for the part about peculiar. It's been a fairly frequent occurance over the past several years. Of course, there are exceptions, including an early-season 55 point OT performance. As the season wears on, expect more occurances. It's just the way it is.

Ed Helicopter Jones
01-12-2009, 06:56 PM
True...except for the part about peculiar. It's been a fairly frequent occurance over the past several years. Of course, there are exceptions, including an early-season 55 point OT performance. As the season wears on, expect more occurances. It's just the way it is.

This is why Manu was always the perfect Ying to Parker's Yang. Manu has historically been Mr. 4th Quarter, while Parker is strong in Q 1-3.



A healthy Manu (and a little stronger inside presence next to TD) has been what has hampered the Spurs since last year's WCF.



Manu seems more like he's rolling at 70% of Manu right now...not the 90% Pop suggested here recently.

Brazil
01-12-2009, 07:05 PM
This is why Manu was always the perfect Ying to Parker's Yang. Manu has historically been Mr. 4th Quarter, while Parker is strong in Q 1-3.



A healthy Manu (and a little stronger inside presence next to TD) has been what has hampered the Spurs since last year's WCF.



Manu seems more like he's rolling at 70% of Manu right now...not the 90% Pop suggested here recently.

Conclusion : a regular Manu is not enough to defeat Orlando, we need the super Manu. Hopefully the super Manu will be there for LA.

kace
01-12-2009, 07:05 PM
True...except for the part about peculiar. It's been a fairly frequent occurance over the past several years. Of course, there are exceptions, including an early-season 55 point OT performance. As the season wears on, expect more occurances. It's just the way it is.

Parker scoring average by quarter this season:

1st: 5.3 pts / 2nd: 5.9 / 3rd: 4.7 / 4th: 6 pts

he's 10 th in the league in scoring average in the 4th quarter with by far the best FG % of these ten players at 54.1 % in the 4th.
and not only the 4th quarter is the one where he scores the most but he does it while playing less minutes in the 4th than in the three previous ones.

to complete, Parker scored a lot in OT as you should know and shoots at 57 % in clutch time (5 last minutes and OT when score is close), by far the most high % of the team.

TRY AGAIN.

Solid D
01-12-2009, 08:11 PM
Parker scoring average by quarter this season:

1st: 5.3 pts / 2nd: 5.9 / 3rd: 4.7 / 4th: 6 pts

he's 10 th in the league in scoring average in the 4th quarter with by far the best FG % of these ten players at 54.1 % in the 4th.
and not only the 4th quarter is the one where he scores the most but he does it while playing less minutes in the 4th than in the three previous ones.

to complete, Parker scored a lot in OT as you should know and shoots at 57 % in clutch time (5 last minutes and OT when score is close), by far the most high % of the team.

TRY AGAIN.

Good stat work, but it's early in the season. If you have available stats from the 82 games last season or the season prior to that, would you be able to say the same?

FromWayDowntown
01-12-2009, 08:24 PM
I've said this elsewhere, but I was disappointed that Pop had such a quick hook for Hill in the early stages of the 4th -- despite the fact that Hill wasn't playing very well -- or, more precisely, that Pop brought Parker back so early in that quarter.

I'm surprised that Pop hasn't been more patient with Hill and more willing to challenge him by putting him into tight situations. Letting him start 4th quarters is a good start, but trusting him to play a bit more and to play through even bad and repeated mistakes strikes me as a good idea at this stage of the game -- both because it seasons Hill and gives Pop something to bark at him about and because it saves Parker. Parker should be conditioned to play heavy 4th quarter minutes, but early January doesn't really seem like the right time to be doing that. Pop knows better than I do, but I'd still like to see more patience in challenging Hill.

mrspurs
01-12-2009, 08:31 PM
No excuses what so ever. The Magic are a better team just like their record shows. If this is the team we are going with for the remainder of this season. Then its get ready for an early vacation again. This team has no inside Defense. And when they tried with all their mights to make inside stops. The Magic decided to give us a taste of our own medicine. The team and Pop just didnt have the answer. Another loss to a team with a winning record. No surprise here. Just another team that has finally found a way of not losing to the San Antonio Spurs. Only tookum a decade or so........

Ice009
01-12-2009, 09:05 PM
No excuses what so ever. The Magic are a better team just like their record shows. If this is the team we are going with for the remainder of this season. Then its get ready for an early vacation again. This team has no inside Defense. And when they tried with all their mights to make inside stops. The Magic decided to give us a taste of our own medicine. The team and Pop just didnt have the answer. Another loss to a team with a winning record. No surprise here. Just another team that has finally found a way of not losing to the San Antonio Spurs. Only tookum a decade or so........

Why are you here? Most of your posts are negative. I haven't heard you once say that the Spurs can get it together and win. If you don't believe in the Spurs maybe you should stop watching the team.

Ice009
01-12-2009, 09:07 PM
I've said this elsewhere, but I was disappointed that Pop had such a quick hook for Hill in the early stages of the 4th -- despite the fact that Hill wasn't playing very well -- or, more precisely, that Pop brought Parker back so early in that quarter.

I'm surprised that Pop hasn't been more patient with Hill and more willing to challenge him by putting him into tight situations. Letting him start 4th quarters is a good start, but trusting him to play a bit more and to play through even bad and repeated mistakes strikes me as a good idea at this stage of the game -- both because it seasons Hill and gives Pop something to bark at him about and because it saves Parker. Parker should be conditioned to play heavy 4th quarter minutes, but early January doesn't really seem like the right time to be doing that. Pop knows better than I do, but I'd still like to see more patience in challenging Hill.

What exactly did Hill do poorly in the 4th quarter? I thought his defense was a lot better than Parker's. Was it for a couple of mistakes on offense? Parker had mistakes on offense too when he can back in. I guess Pop put Tony back out there quickly for offensive reasons?

Solid D
01-12-2009, 09:56 PM
If Manu can return to the form he was in last year prior to his injury, the Spurs will be fine.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-forbesnbaclutch120408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
The best bargain guard was San Antonio’s Manu Ginobili, who led the Spurs in fourth-quarter scoring last season with 5.2 points per game – a full point better than all-star teammates Tim Duncan and Tony Parker. Ginobili shot a league-high 57.4 percent from the field during the last five minutes of close games and was paid $9 million.

ducks
01-12-2009, 10:02 PM
Parker’s fourth quarters struggles tarnished an otherwise fine performance and were strange because the fourth has been his most productive quarter this season.

Solid D
01-12-2009, 10:11 PM
As the season wears on, expect more occurances. It's just the way it is.

SenorSpur
01-12-2009, 11:57 PM
I've said this elsewhere, but I was disappointed that Pop had such a quick hook for Hill in the early stages of the 4th -- despite the fact that Hill wasn't playing very well -- or, more precisely, that Pop brought Parker back so early in that quarter.

I'm surprised that Pop hasn't been more patient with Hill and more willing to challenge him by putting him into tight situations. Letting him start 4th quarters is a good start, but trusting him to play a bit more and to play through even bad and repeated mistakes strikes me as a good idea at this stage of the game -- both because it seasons Hill and gives Pop something to bark at him about and because it saves Parker. Parker should be conditioned to play heavy 4th quarter minutes, but early January doesn't really seem like the right time to be doing that. Pop knows better than I do, but I'd still like to see more patience in challenging Hill.

Couldn't agree more. For evidence, look no further than how Parker was worn down by the 4th quarter.

mrspurs
01-13-2009, 12:42 AM
Couldn't agree more. For evidence, look no further than how Parker was worn down by the 4th quarter.

No matter what, Pop was trying to win that game. I for one have been impressed with Pops coaching this season. All the mishaps and we're still in this game. If Tony looked a little tired last night, then I can imagine how he will look in the end. No matter what Pop does, Tony and Timmy will have to log in alot of minutes for this team to win. Its not gonna get any easier. Other guys on this roster are gonna have to step it up or we may just have one of those rare 3 game losses in a row. Its about time Manu starts playing like last seasons Manu.

timvp
01-13-2009, 01:17 AM
True...except for the part about peculiar. It's been a fairly frequent occurance over the past several years. Of course, there are exceptions, including an early-season 55 point OT performance. As the season wears on, expect more occurances. It's just the way it is.
Peculiar for this season, at least.

It's going to be interesting to watch how Pop handles fourth quarter touches this season. In the past few seasons, Ginobili has been the first option down the stretch, with TD running shotgun and TP in the backseat. This season, Pop has given TP the ball more often than not in money time for the first time in his career. Statistically speaking, TP has responded well.

For example, in the Christmas Day game, that play in past years would 95% of the time be called for Manu to be the creator. Currently, TP is getting those types of plays called for him most of the time. But as Manu recovers, will Pop once again give him the reins?

It's a tough call. TP has put up clutch stats in the last three playoffs and during this regular season, while Manu's clutch stats have been off during those times. But then again, Manu is Manu and he has a long history of being a championship caliber game changer and one of the best winners of his generation.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out . . .

Solid D
01-13-2009, 01:37 AM
Yeah, I agree regarding TP getting the ball in crunch time this season and that he has responded well so far in his 27 games this season. He's top 6 in crunch-time so far. I expect the inevitable slog-through-the-mud look late in some of the latter season games.

Manu ranked 5th in crunch time last season (regular) and 3rd in the last 2 minutes with one team leading by 3 points or less...but Manu typically had the ball last year in super crunch time. We'll see how many shots Parker will need to get his points in the 4th quarter. If he and Manu (Dan Majerle-esque?) are both inefficient, then we all know what would happen.

slayermin
01-13-2009, 02:22 AM
Those Magic have all kinds of three point shooting surrounding Howard. Lewis and Turkoglu at forward spreads the floor really well. I was shocked at all the open looks they were getting against the Spurs. And as amazing as Jameer Nelson was, I was more impressed with J.J. Redick. Never liked Redick, but he is a great shooter. He must love playing with the Magic right now.

angel_luv
01-13-2009, 12:58 PM
Hedo did play well. It was fun watching him.
Guess he showed everyone who booed him when he was introduced. :)

Tony Parker did a fantastic job. I was impressed.

kace
01-13-2009, 02:29 PM
Good stat work, but it's early in the season. If you have available stats from the 82 games last season or the season prior to that, would you be able to say the same?

if you're criticizing him for how poorly he played in the 4th some years ago or for how poorly you think (hope ?) he will play in the fourth as the season goes, there is nothing i can do about it.

right now, and for some years and PO, he's by far the most clutch spur.
I'm sorry for you.

Shastafarian
01-13-2009, 02:31 PM
if you're criticizing him for how poorly he played in the 4th some years ago or for how poorly you think (hope ?) he will play in the fourth as the season goes, there is nothing i can do about it.

right now, and for some years and PO, he's by far the most clutch spur.
I'm sorry for you.

Oh come on. How can you say that when Manu and Tim are on the team? By far?

MaNuMaNiAc
01-13-2009, 02:40 PM
Oh come on. How can you say that when Manu and Tim are on the team? By far?

he can say that because he's a bit biased. I can see how Tony might be considered the clutchest so far this season, but to say he's been the clutchest for some years now is bullshit. Specially, when Manu's fourth quarter stats last year completely blow that notion out of the water.

Having said that, give Tony his props this season. The man is clutch, period.

kace
01-13-2009, 02:40 PM
Oh come on. How can you say that when Manu and Tim are on the team? By far?

the stats say that. it has been posted many times. since a couple of years. Before that Parker wasn't so clutch overally and he was less than average in PO.

Tim is also very clutch, as usual. Manu had a wonderful RS last year, but otherwise, and especially in PO, he has a very low FG % in clutch time since few years.

Search the stats from 82games.com, they have been brought several times.

kace
01-13-2009, 02:43 PM
he can say that because he's a bit biased. I can see how Tony might be considered the clutchest so far this season, but to say he's been the clutchest for some years now is bullshit. Specially, when Manu's fourth quarter stats last year completely blow that notion out of the water.

Having said that, give Tony his props this season. The man is clutch, period.

well we posted in the same time so i hope you have your answer.

it has nothing to do with being biased even if i have to admit the TP hating is, well, let's say annoying.

I have no problem to say Tony was often shit till 06 in PO. I have no problem to say he's gold since few years in clutch times.

Shastafarian
01-13-2009, 02:43 PM
the stats say that. it has been posted many times. since a couple of years. Before that Parker wasn't so clutch overally and he was less than average in PO.I could've sworn Manu had the best clutch time stats last year.


Tim is also very clutch, as usual. Manu had a wonderful RS last year, but otherwise, and especially in PO, he has a very low FG % in clutch time since few years.Especially in the Playoffs when he was hurt?


Search the stats from 82games.com, they have been brought several times.
There's no doubt Tony is clutch. But to say he's "by far" the most clutch on the team is ridiculous. I'm not sure who I want handling the ball on the last possession. Both Manu and Tony are excellent driving with little time left. Tim is great at hitting shots in the clutch.

kace
01-13-2009, 02:57 PM
well, if you want the stats, you have the ones from the PO of last three years here: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111608

Scroll down and see my posts.


It's interesting that a lot of you are talking about manu last year play in the fourth in RS. manu was simply incredible last year in the 4 th and in clutch time, in regular season. he was amazing and saved our ass a lot of times. I really enjoyed watching him at this level, really hope to see him at it again and really think he deserved the tons and tons of praising threads he had then and still has now for that.

here are his stats in clutch time last year RS: 43.3 pts per 48 minutes at 57.4 %

simply amazing.

Tony's ones this year: 44.2 pts per 48 minutes at 56.6 %. and he's still bashed.............

Shastafarian
01-13-2009, 03:06 PM
well, if you want the stats, you have the ones from the PO of last three years here: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111608

Scroll down and see my posts.


It's interesting that a lot of you are talking about manu last year play in the fourth in RS. manu was simply incredible last year in the 4 th and in clutch time, in regular season. he was amazing and saved our ass a lot of times. I really enjoyed watching him at this level, really hope to see him at it again and really think he deserved the tons and tons of praising threads he had then and still has now for that.

here are his stats in clutch time last year RS: 43.3 pts per 48 minutes at 57.4 %

simply amazing.Right so how can you say Parker is by far better in crunch time?


Tony's ones this year: 44.2 pts per 48 minutes at 56.6 %. and he's still bashed.............I don't think we're bashing him. We're commenting on you saying he's by far better than anyone on the team in crunch time when it's simply not true.

kace
01-13-2009, 03:10 PM
Right so how can you say Parker is by far better in crunch time?

I don't think we're bashing him. We're commenting on you saying he's by far better than anyone on the team in crunch time when it's simply not true.

look at the stats in my link from three previous PO.

and i'll stop here, i'm tired of that shit.

it's me
01-13-2009, 03:15 PM
well we posted in the same time so i hope you have your answer.

it has nothing to do with being biased even if i have to admit the TP hating is, well, let's say annoying.

I have no problem to say Tony was often shit till 06 in PO. I have no problem to say he's gold since few years in clutch times.

Your Tony’s balls sucking is getting annoying too my friend. :wakeup

kace
01-13-2009, 03:25 PM
Your Tony’s balls sucking is getting annoying too my friend. :wakeup

my friend ? you're talking to the wrong person, "my friend". for me, you're just a lame poster who thinks he's smart by throwing a pathetic barb to someone while adding a stupid and meaningless smiley.

MaNuMaNiAc
01-13-2009, 03:27 PM
Your Tony’s balls sucking is getting annoying too my friend. :wakeup

How the hell does giving praise where praise is due constitute ball sucking. I won't argue Kace is a bit of a Tony homer, but not anymore than the hundreds of Manu homers roaming around here. Plus he damn sure is right about one thing. Tony doesn't nearly the recognition he should in this forum.

Having said that, I do believe you went overboard with the "clutchest by far" crap. You and I both know that is bullshit Kace.

it's me
01-13-2009, 03:33 PM
my friend ? you're talking to the wrong person, "my friend". for me, you're just a lame poster who thinks he's smart by throwing a pathetic barb to someone while adding a stupid and meaningless smiley.


I love you too:toast

kace
01-13-2009, 03:35 PM
How the hell does giving praise where praise is due constitute ball sucking. I won't argue Kace is a bit of a Tony homer, but not anymore than the hundreds of Manu homers roaming around here. Plus he damn sure is right about one thing. Tony doesn't nearly the recognition he should in this forum.

Having said that, I do believe you went overboard with the "clutchest by far" crap. You and I both know that is bullshit Kace.

i said right now and for some years. i meant some few years. it has been the case in the 3 last PO, where clutchness is the most important i think. at least in the stats, that don't say the whole thing for sure. maybe the "by far" was too much anyway.

and please, don't compare me with the few manu's homers you're talking about. i never felt the need to bash any spur player to appreciate tony. especially not manu, look my posts. and i never praised vacantly and with overreaction tony for his great play. i didn't even create a single thread to praise him after any good game he had. i just reacted to some unfair and blind bashing. and i'll probably stop doing this because i'm wasting my time on this otherwise great forum.

Solid D
01-13-2009, 11:24 PM
TP is an incredible All-Star player and he's a Top-3 PG in the NBA. He is enjoying a terrific season.

To observe that Tony runs out of gas and appears to be slogging-through-the-mud, late in games as the season wears on is not any news flash...nor is it "bashing" him. It just happens. Fortunately, he has Tim, Manu, Fin, Mason and Bruce to help him finish games and avoid dominating the ball or failing to execute when he's tired in crunch time. Unfortunately, Les Bleus could not surround TP (injuries and lack of talent) with this type of supporting cast for Eurobasket Quals.

td4mvp21
01-13-2009, 11:29 PM
We have three clutch players (maybe a fourth & fifth if you count Mason and Bowen-both can knock down big shots). I think we are very fortunate to have that. Who cares who is the most clutch?

Man Mountain
01-14-2009, 06:22 AM
Why not more Mason screen and roll with Duncan from 25 feet straight-a-way? That worked almost every time :down:

romain.star
01-14-2009, 07:03 AM
Kace, le combat est noble, la lutte est belle.

Courage à toi car les redoutables bacheurs du numéro 9 sont ici légion.

timvp
01-14-2009, 11:25 AM
To observe that Tony runs out of gas and appears to be slogging-through-the-mud, late in games as the season wears on is not any news flash...nor is it "bashing" him. It just happens. Agreed. That "slogging-through-the-mud" analogy is perfect. TP invariably hits a point in the season in which he starts to get fatigued easily, always seems to have his hands on his knees gasping for air and his legs move a lot slower than regular. Thankfully the annual pattern recently includes him regaining his form for the playoffs.

But yeah, after all these years each player's pattern is pretty obvious:

-TD spends much of the first half of the season sleepwalking on defense. He slowly ups his effort until he's at the top of his game in the playoffs. In an attempt to get TD to up his effort on D sooner, Pop pulls out the soft card.

-Manu has a couple. First, he has his yearly injury (let's hope he already has that one checked off for this season). And then he has a few stretches through the season in which he becomes extra loose with the ball and turnover prone. That usually requires Pop to bench him, yell at him and then send him back into the game. Rinse and repeat until Manu sharpens his play.

timvp
01-14-2009, 11:26 AM
Why not more Mason screen and roll with Duncan from 25 feet straight-a-way? That worked almost every time :down:Good question. I liked that Mason pick-and-roll at the top of the key. It's tough to defend because Mason has a fast release and a nice hesitation dribble that can get him open. Especially in games like the Orlando contest in which the other team isn't leaving him open, letting Mason run a few pick-and-rolls would be a good idea.

Darkwaters
01-14-2009, 12:01 PM
Nice report as usual timvp. I actually was able to watch that game (albeit several hours after the fact).