"Manu is really beat up" - PJ Carlesimo

[Solid D]

Pre-game radio interview, PJ was saying that the team has been banged up, especially Manu. He said Tim is doing better and playing much better.

Prior to the game with Memphis, Robert hadn't really played since the Miami game so he was rusty.

Nazr will probably see some action tonight but he does have a sore muscle in his leg. He has been working with Coach Mike Budenholzer and will take some time to get up to speed.

[timvp]

How about instead of putting down Beno, why not put Manu on IR and let Brown and Barry play at their regular positions?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

If Manu was really hurting, maybe that's why his play was so poor against Memphis, in that case bench him for a few games, he does more harm then good when he plays that banged up, let him rest and get back to good as new, the sooner the better.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

How about instead of putting down Beno, why not put Manu on IR and let Brown and Barry play at their regular positions?


That would make a lot of sense. Although we would lose Manu for 2 weeks right? Oh well were gonna be a top seed anyway.

[ducks]

you bench him if he is hurt
come on use your head pop

[E20]

If a player goes on the IR does it affect their averages?

[TMTTRIO]

I didn't get to see the game but it looked like Manu did badly again tonight and what's up with the missed free throws? That's weird for him to miss all those free throws.

[ducks]

imo he needs to rest

[ducks]

If a player goes on the IR does it affect their averages?
yes the average of how many straight games they play in :lol

[Solid D]

Manu was really good in flashes tonight, but he really does look tired. He's not making as many steal attempts and his hops are not there. When fresh, he finishes on that reverse jam attempt he tried to pull off along the baseline tonight.

PJ said "Manu is really beat up" and he looks it.

[TMTTRIO]

Yeah, Manu hasn't really looked the same for a while. Maybe it wouldn't hurt if he sat out a few games. Manu's played non stop since this summer and even when he did sit out it was for only one game. It would also allow Barry and Brown to step up while he's out. We're going to need him ready for the big run into the playoffs.

[timvp]

This is why I have my stance that I hope no Spur plays in the All-Star game again.

Or the Olympics for that matter.

[T Park]

Agreed^^^

especially the olympics.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

This is why I have my stance that I hope no Spur plays in the All-Star game again.

Or the Olympics for that matter.
yeah well, good luck with that, LOL!! Here in Argentina, representing your country in sports is about the greatest honor there is. Don't expect Manu to just sit idle while his countrymen need him. He wouldn't do it, plus, it would be like a crime here! lol Ofcourse, everyone would understand if he was just plain exausted. But I wouldn't bet on it.

[boutons]

"Manu's played non stop since this summer"

I remember saying he took off a whole month between Athens and Spurs pre-season camp, came back feeling very rested and relaxed. I think he's a victim of his own style of play. Somehow, he's got to figure out a way to conserve/protect himself for the 2nd half of seasons and playoffs.

Remember how incredible he was in November? incredible points-per-shot, great playing, shooting 60% FGs, steals, etc, etc.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/emanuel_ginobili/game_by_game_stats.html

Too bad he can't be rested like that all season.

[Manu20]

Manu is going to take this summer off Right?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Manu is going to take this summer off Right?
Most likely, I don't think he could do otherwise, I mean, the guy is tough, but even tough needs a break.

[TMTTRIO]

he said he is going to rest this summer and he needs it

[exstatic]

Manu plays like a fucking fullback, and probably gets more contact per game than almost any other player in the league. He is, in a sense, a victim of his own excellence. The sick circus shot finishes make players foul him harder so that they don't wind up looking stupid on Sports Center.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

The sick circus shot finishes make players foul him harder so that they don't wind up looking stupid on Sports Center.
LOL!http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/lmao.gifhttp://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/lmao.gifhttp://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/lmao.gifhttp://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/lmao.gifhttp://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/lmao.gifhttp://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/lmao.gifhttp://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/lmao.gifhttp://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/lmao.gifhttp://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/lmao.gifhttp://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/lmao.gifhttp://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/lmao.gif

Good way to look at it

[Kori Ellis]

That's why I always say that he shouldn't average more than 30mpg. And some people here are always quick to rip me and say that he can easily average 35 and be productive. He can't. He plays so hard; he is more worn out after games than any player I've ever seen.

[GerM]

That's why I always say that he shouldn't average more than 30mpg. And some people here are always quick to rip me and say that he can easily average 35 and be productive. He can't. He plays so hard; he is more worn out after games than any player I've ever seen.

hey Kori, why don't you ask him then?I would like to know what he thinks about that. I think he can't average 40 mpg, but I think he can average 35, if he rests in the summer.

[Nikos]

He can average 35mpg, he just can't play the same way defensively and with as much intensity over that stretch of time.

There have been several times (before the All Star Break) where Manu would play 5-6 minutes and not even really do much on either end -- if he gets tired from that, I don't see how he is going to be effective in the playoffs, at least not in the sense of what Spurs fans will want from him.

If he cannot play 35mpg come playoff time I would be worried about this team. Tony and Manu are both going to need to play more minutes come playoff time against the BEST teams. If you play him as much or less than the regular season then you better hope Brent Barry, Bruce Bowen are on fire, and Tony Parker plays like he did in the first 6 games of the playoffs THROUGHOUT the entire playoffs. Or Duncan will be forced to turn into Michael Jordan, where he has to dominate no matter what his teamattes do or don't do.

Manu has been used differently this season. Pop gives him more plays and possesions in his time, and Manu has made the most of them. I always said he is MORE turnover prone when he gets less minutes and more touches per minute. Before he was benched last year his Ast/TO ratio was fine, and he was doing fine as a floor general for the team with TP and Duncan out.

It all comes down to preference with Manu. If you want him to play 35mpg, expect less touches per minute, and more passing out of him along with less gambling. You would see him be a little more careful. If you play him 30mpg, he essentially will be used as a guy who sees a decent amount of scoring possesions, and is less likely to rack up assists, and also gambles on the defensive end along with playing with that reckless abondon.

I just don't see it from Manu as much -- he has plenty of solid games playing 33mpg+ without always giving the illusion of playing 200%. He is making the simple plays this season, along with that same wild style of his.

I don't see why if he played 35mpg he could not simply see a less proportion of possesions, pass a bit more, and pace himself? If he is incapable of doing this come playoff time the Spurs chances are not quite so good.

It's not all on Manu, but he is pretty important. And if he can't hack it for more than 30mpg in the playoffs, than this team will not be as good as it could be.

[orhe]

Pop will call a couple of plays for manu for the first three quarters...
then he'll let him takeover the 4th quarter...

this strategy me thinks would be hard to implement in the playoffs where the teams would adjust to each game.

they could really throw manu off for the first 3 quarters and implement some zone in the 4th to negate him...

manu needs more touches for the first three quarters come playoff time to establish himself

etc etc... my head hurts prollly because of the freaking heat! ii might not say stuff clearly

[timvp]

I don't understand what Nikos doesn't get about Manu not being able to play over 30 minutes per game. He's a great player, but it isn't physically possible or him to average more than 30 minutes and last a full NBA season.

You know Manu far too well to say that he can change his style or his pace. That aggression is what makes Manu the player that he is.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't see why if he played 35mpg he could not simply see a less proportion of possesions, pass a bit more, and pace himself? If he is incapable of doing this come playoff time the Spurs chances are not quite so good.

Why do you think it's better that he plays five extra minutes a game but changes his playing style? I would rather he played 30 minutes game and didn't have to change anything about playing all out every minute he was on the floor.

[MosesGuthrie]

Amen.

[Rick Von Braun]

That's why I always say that he shouldn't average more than 30mpg. And some people here are always quick to rip me and say that he can easily average 35 and be productive. He can't. He plays so hard; he is more worn out after games than any player I've ever seen.If you are so certain about your opinion, why don't you ask the man himself? http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smispin.gif

You could ask him if he would consider himself capable of playing 35 minutes average in the playoffs.

Statistically speaking, his productivity (pro-rated to the numbers of minutes played) has been larger than his total average when playing 33+ minutes. The quantitative data does not back up your statement. http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smidrunk.gif

[Kori Ellis]

Statistically speaking, his productivity (pro-rated to the numbers of minutes played) has been larger than his total average when playing 33+ minutes. The quantitative data does not back up your statement.

You don't have any quantitative data for what I'm saying. He has never played 35 mpg over the course of an NBA season.


I'm not talking about his statistics. I'm talking about the wear-and-tear on his body. Of course he can play some games of 35+ minutes and put up good numbers, but over a course of a season if he did that every night his body would be broken down and he'd likely end up on IR. He often says in post game that he feels sluggish, tired, and beaten up and cites the reason because he played "a lot of minutes" or because it's a back-to-back. I don't need to ask him something that he mentions all the time.

[GerM]

I recently asked him in his forum if he felt like he could average 40 mpg, and he said he probably could but after game 82 he would take a 4 year vacation lol(so, thats a no).
I have yet to ask him if he could average 35mpg, but seeing his previous answer I assume he can do it if he rests previously. 30mpg is really little time for a 27 year guy.

[Kori Ellis]

30mpg is really little time for a 27 year guy.

Yeah, but not every 27 year old guy plays all out and sacrifices their body like Manu does. I'd rather he kept his style of play and played around 30 minutes rather than trying to slow himself down or "pace himself" as Nikos says just to play 35 every night.

[Rick Von Braun]

You could ask him if he would consider himself capable of playing 35 minutes average in the playoffs.
If the Spurs go deep in the playoffs, they will play between 16 to 28 games. Most probably something between 20 to 22 games with no back-to-backs.

In your opinion, do you consider him capable of playing an average of 35 minutes in the playoffs?

Independently of your opinion, I wonder what Manu would say about that. I am pretty sure that he would say yes.

[Kori Ellis]

Yes, he's not going to breakdown immediately over playing 35 minutes in the playoffs with adequate rest between games. What I have said, and always have been saying, is that he cannot play 35 minutes a night throughout an 82 game season and throughout the playoffs with his style of play without suffering injuries and severe fatigue.

[Nikos]

I don't understand what Nikos doesn't get about Manu not being able to play over 30 minutes per game. He's a great player, but it isn't physically possible or him to average more than 30 minutes and last a full NBA season.

You know Manu far too well to say that he can change his style or his pace. That aggression is what makes Manu the player that he is.

I'm saying he would still be effective if he played 35mpg. His productivity per minute may go down, but its not going to be anything drastic. Luckily this team has had solid guys like Barry, SJax, DBrown in the rotation now and in the past. Guys who hit open shots and also give solid defense in the system (Barry more offense of course).

Just look at his game at the beggining of the 0203 season, he was basically playing PG for the team. His turnovers were low, and assists were high. And he was still racking up steals. Only thing that was off was is shooting, but he still played that same way. Some of his best games were games he easily logged over 33+ minutes. He paced himself a bit more, and simply DID not gamble as much or go chicken shit on defense (like I saw him do live in Boston a few times). He came off the bench and simply exerted tons of energy on defense back in his rookie season when you were claiming he could not play over 30mpg then as well - today he seems be a little less of a gambler (but still does).

This season he is being used more as a scorer than seasons past.

It just doesn't make sense to me that a player gets worse with more minutes, you act as though he would average 12-4-3 if he played more minutes. I just do not see it that way. Most players get better with more minutes -- and I could understand if Manu was JUST A PURE scorer than it would make sense that he wouldn't deserve more than 30 minutes -- but the guy is an all around player. He doesn't have to be playing 200% to be effective in this system, where you have Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, and guys who can hit open shots from time to time.

Yes I understand he is an energy guy, and he might be a bit less effective with 35mpg, but I just don't buy the fact he cannot average 33mpg or so if the Spurs really needed him too.

I have seen several games this season where Manu simply can goto the bench after the 5-6 min mark, and not have exerted much energy at all. He is pacing himself a bit more for the offense end this season. Pop never likes to put him on a good offensive player, even if it means putting in DB or Bowen, when they are OFF.

I guess we will have to disagree on this one. I personally beleive that players (even ones who play as hard as Manu does) find a way to actually play better with more minutes (provided they aren't merely spot up shooters or one dimensional). And even those guys tend to do better with 30-34mpg as opposed to 10-15mpg on mediocre teams who have no other alternatives.

Just my opinion (I know you disagree strongly).

[Nikos]

Yeah, but not every 27 year old guy plays all out and sacrifices their body like Manu does. I'd rather he kept his style of play and played around 30 minutes rather than trying to slow himself down or "pace himself" as Nikos says just to play 35 every night.

I don't really disagree with this, and actually don't mind it provided Brent Barry plays to his potential. Manu does more in 30 minutes than most SGs do in 35-36mpg. And if we can use him in that allotted time, and also have 18 quality minutes from Brent -- then the SG position is about as good as any in the league. Including SG positions occupied by some of the NBA's elite.

All I am saying is I really think if Manu was on an inferior team and had to play 33-35mpg, he could adjust and find a way to do it. And I do not think his stats would take a huge dip. 40mpg no. But 32-34mpg? Why not?

But in the playoffs I would rather him see 32-34mpg, and let Barry be the designated swingman of the bench. And if he is not playing up to par, I wouldn't mind keeping Manu in a few extra minutes than usual.

[SequSpur]

Sounds to me like Manu is a whiner and the Spurs shoulda packaged him and Malik for a true allstar.

Manu has alot of excuses right now since he is playing like shit.