Bye, Bye Bowen

[Ghost Writer]

Finally, the Spurs have realized that Bowen's defense is not worth the liability on offense.

Tonight's limited minutes against Kobe Bryant and the Lakers is proof positive that the Spurs will finally enjoy the benefits of more versatile players that do work on both ends of the floor.

[Slydragon]

That's a crazy post count

[DMX7]

Yep, but we're still paying him like 4 million bucks for another season or two.

[ManuTP9]

idk pop said he was saving him for the playoffs

[ClingingMars]

a Ghost Writer sighting?

how you doing on that "tank 08-09" theory?

-Mars

[Spurologist]

An offense defense switch with Bowen and Mason down the stretch needs to be an option

[jag]

I have a feeling bowen will see his minutes in the PO

[Spurtacus]

He'll still be needed come playoff time.

[smeagol]

how you doing on that "tank 08-09" theory?

[bigdog]

as much as I love Bowen, I don't think he's needed too much at this point, with Pop even going with Finley at times ahead of Bowen.

[weebo]

bowen isn't going anywhere...when needed he'll be called upon and he will produce.

[HarlemHeat37]

Bowen is clearly resting for the playoffs, everybody should see that..

Bowen's still a great defender though..I don't know how anybody can watch him and tell me he's no longer a great defender..

he's going to be a beast in the playoffs though..he's gonna be covering players that just went through a long season with consistent minutes, while he's been getting limited minutes..

Pop knows what he's doing, he's an evil genius..

[thekingrobert]

Bown better get ready and take an assistant coach job isnt that what sam cassel does...hehe

[lurker23]

Bowen is clearly resting for the playoffs, everybody should see that..

Bowen's still a great defender though..I don't know how anybody can watch him and tell me he's no longer a great defender..

he's going to be a beast in the playoffs though..he's gonna be covering players that just went through a long season with consistent minutes, while he's been getting limited minutes..

Pop knows what he's doing, he's an evil genius..

Agreed. Bowen is filling the Robert Horry role now. Rest during the regular season, be ready for the playoffs. Pretty similar roles, too: solid defense and maybe a big shot or two.

[anakha]

a Ghost Writer sighting?

how you doing on that "tank 08-09" theory?

-Mars

[NRHector]

Bowen is clearly resting for the playoffs, everybody should see that..

Bowen's still a great defender though..I don't know how anybody can watch him and tell me he's no longer a great defender..

he's going to be a beast in the playoffs though..he's gonna be covering players that just went through a long season with consistent minutes, while he's been getting limited minutes..

Pop knows what he's doing, he's an evil genius..:tu

[SenorSpur]

Bowen is clearly resting for the playoffs, everybody should see that..

Bowen's still a great defender though..I don't know how anybody can watch him and tell me he's no longer a great defender..

he's going to be a beast in the playoffs though..he's gonna be covering players that just went through a long season with consistent minutes, while he's been getting limited minutes..

Pop knows what he's doing, he's an evil genius..

AMen!

[DMX7]

Bowen is resting for the playoffs??? When has Bowen ever needed rest much less an entire season worth of it. It's not like he does anything on offense.

[tp2021]

Finally, the Spurs have realized that Bowen's defense is not worth the liability on offense.

Tonight's limited minutes against Kobe Bryant and the Lakers is proof positive that the Spurs will finally enjoy the benefits of more versatile players that do work on both ends of the floor.

Go away again, but stay there this time.

[peskypesky]

Pop is saving Bowen for the playoffs. Plain and simple.

[SpursPreacher]

Gotta save a big gun for later cant use it now.

[HarlemHeat37]

Bowen is resting for the playoffs??? When has Bowen ever needed rest much less an entire season worth of it. It's not like he does anything on offense.

he's 37..you want him to chase players like Kobe around all game for 82 games? that's just horrible strategy..we're good enough to get a high seed without him, we might as well save him for when it matters..

Pop plays him just enough that he can stay in a rhythm for later on..

[timvp]

:lol Ghost Writer reappears in hopes of finally being able to put some dirt on Bowen's grave. Even if what he says is true, it came three championships too late . . .

[Spurminator]

He'll be starting in the Playoffs.

Bump this thread in May.

[baseline bum]

:lol Ghost Writer reappears in hopes of finally being able to put some dirt on Bowen's grave. Even if what he says is true, it came three championships too late . . .

:lmao


as much as I love Bowen, I don't think he's needed too much at this point, with Pop even going with Finley at times ahead of Bowen.

Not saying Kobe wouldn't have hit that three on Bowen instead of Mason, but he sure as hell wouldn't have had even half the space Roger gave him to put that one up.

[EricB]

Mason's defense on Kobe was horrible.

Bowen will guard him more in the playoffs.

Deal with it.

[z0sa]

Mason's defense on Kobe was horrible.

Bowen will guard him more in the playoffs.

Deal with it.

I doubt Mason has had many chances to guard a player like Bryant much. He'll continue to improve, and like said his offense and Bowen's really don't compare. Bowen gets stripped of the ball if he tries to dribble up the court faster than a jog. Mason leads the fast break and makes good decisions in the half court.

Oh, let's not talk about that shooting :hat

Not that i'm comparing the two. Bowen's defense is better, especially in terms of ball denial.

The truth is, we need offense against the Lakers. Like I said, hopefully Mason improves. It could be necessary if we're going to hold Kobe from a triple double in the playoffs. Bowen's fate still might alter the balance of a playoff series with his defense.

You never know, Bowen might be an iron man for a few more years to come ..

[SequSpur]

good topic GW. Agree totally.

[phyzik]

GW FINALLY makes an apperance..... and its a let down..... I mean, come on... you got Sequ on your side... SEQU!!! That tells you that its a bad post right away. :sleep

all kidding aside, your right. Its time to let Bowen fade away. He doesnt contribute much anymore.

[EricB]

I don't know anything about basketball.


FIFY

[Bang]

You know nothing about Gregg Popovich's rotations.

Are you at practice every day?

Have you sat courtside for two decades?

STFU!!!!

[DDS4]

More like goodbye Udoka.

Bowen still has a place, albeit a lesser role, even in the playoffs.

[HarlemHeat37]

what was wrong with Bowen's D tonight, btw?..

remember who he was guarding..the best player in the world..

it's the same old shit with everything..people think the guy is washed up because he doesn't start anymore..they don't actually base their judgments on watching him play..people just talk based on comments from the media..

Pop is by far the best coach in the NBA..by far..he knows what he's doing..

[ChumpDumper]

Finally, the Spurs realize they need to tank the season to remain competitive!

[polandprzem]

BOOO

[DrHouse]

Bowen looked horrible tonight. Kobe just waltzed right past him at will. Maybe age is finally catching up to the so called Kobe stopper.

[ChumpDumper]

Only insecure lakerfans called him the Kobe stopper.

[baseline bum]

LMAO when Bruce pulled the chair on Bryant, forcing a TO.

[Austin_Toros]

he'll probably get more mins in the playoffs, but i think san anotnio are moving on from the bruce bowen era...
bowen is slowing down and is moving out of the spurs plans. but damn was he a defender

[mrspurs]

Bowen is clearly resting for the playoffs, everybody should see that..

Bowen's still a great defender though..I don't know how anybody can watch him and tell me he's no longer a great defender..

he's going to be a beast in the playoffs though..he's gonna be covering players that just went through a long season with consistent minutes, while he's been getting limited minutes..

Pop knows what he's doing, he's an evil genius..

Agreed

[Creation88]

i hate stupid fans. stop jumping the fence back and forth.

when bowen does great you praise him, when he doesn't play or has a bad game you crucify him.

that kobe 3 in the corner at the shot clock buzzer wouldn't have gone in if Bruce was in there.

[Spurminator]

Kobe turned the ball over twice in the 6 minutes Bowen guarded him last night. He also turned it over twice in the other 36 minutes he played. Bruce is going to have trouble against Kobe, because Kobe is, like, really really good and stuff, but he's going to make him work.

[pawe]

How would you count out a defensive ace who knows the Spurs' system like the back of his hand and is money from the corner 3.
5 secs left in a playoff game and you see Bowen on the corner three, you know there would be no hesitation from any Spurs player to give him the ball and you still call him an offensive liability?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

How would you count out a defensive ace who knows the Spurs' system like the back of his hand and is money from the corner 3.
5 secs left in a playoff game and you see Bowen on the corner three, you know there would be no hesitation from any Spurs player to give him the ball and you still call him an offensive liability?

GW knows nothing about the game of basketball.

[kace]

Bruce is not done. he will be useful again.

and anyway, he deserves a lot of respect for what he did for us. a member of the big 4.

[rascal]

i hate stupid fans. stop jumping the fence back and forth.

when bowen does great you praise him, when he doesn't play or has a bad game you crucify him.

that kobe 3 in the corner at the shot clock buzzer wouldn't have gone in if Bruce was in there.


Kobe could have hit that shot over Bowen. Kobe torched Bowen from the perimeter last year in the playoffs.

[HarlemHeat37]

Kobe torches everyone, he's Kobe Bryant..it doesn't change the fact that Bowen makes him work..the only people that think Bowen is done are insecure people that fear the Spurs, as usual..

he was still a great defensive player last year..is it possible to decline completely in a year, when you are getting far less minutes? it doesn't make any sense..

use your brains, please..

[mogrovejo]

Bowen is still the best individual perimeter defender on the Spurs roster. He's not on Battiers league anymore though. But close enough to be the primary wing defender for San Antonio once the play-offs start.

[slayermin]

Bowen isn't done. He's never been injured and he looks to be in great shape again. He might be a half step slower but his desire to defend hasn't dropped off at all.

Mason has looked incredible thus far and I hope he finishes strong. But Steve Smith(116-246 .472 3pt Pct) in '02 looked great during the regular season. It was a different story in the playoffs. Hedo Turkoglu played great until the Spurs faced the Lakers in the semis.

Pop is probably just saving Bruce for April and May. And at the same time, getting a long look at Mason and Hill. Mason is developing a reputation right now and living up to that reputation in the playoffs will be the big test.

[m33p0]

thank you for the post. now we can tank the season. that IS still the plan, right?:lol

[baseline bum]

Kobe could have hit that shot over Bowen. Kobe torched Bowen from the perimeter last year in the playoffs.

Bowen was great on Kobe in game 1 last year. Bryant went off when Pop put Udoka and Ginobili on him in the fourth quarter.

[Sean Cagney]

Wow so now he is a liability and being thrown around and it's bye bye like you are happy? Do you not know what he did for us in title years? Locked down Billups and that won the series the last two games, played Kobe great in 03 and locked DOWN NASH alot too, he seriously was KEY to our title runs since 03. Is this the love he gets in here? He is resting for the playoffs, watch him do some good things for the Spurs then.

[Ghost Writer]

You people can rationalize that Pop is "saving" his "big gun" Bowen for the playoffs, but the truth is that Bowen's age and offensive ineptitude have forced Pop's hand to keep his minutes limited. Finally.

And you criticize Mason's defense, but overlook the points that he scored and the big shot that he made. Plus, Mason makes his defender work on the defensive end.





I am begging you to dig into the "Best of Bowen" archives and show me where he held Kobe. The bottom line is that Kobe will always get his 25 some-odd points, regardless of who guards him.



What the Spurs can't afford (and never could despite winning 3 titles out of at least 5 during the Bowen era) is to carry a complete disaster on offense for 30 MPG.

And I don't want to hear about Bowen's baseline 3s. That is not an offensive skill set.








Bye, bye Bowen. You've finally been relegated to off-the-bench defensive specialist... a role that I have been pining for him to have for years.

[ElNono]

You people can rationalize that Pop is "saving" his "big gun" Bowen for the playoffs, but the truth is that Bowen's age and offensive ineptitude have forced Pop's hand to keep his minutes limited. Finally.

....

Bye, bye Bowen. You've finally been relegated to off-the-bench defensive specialist... a role that I have been pining for him to have for years.

Bowen will be playing 30 mpg when the playoffs come around. That might change a bit here and there depending on matchups, but you can bet your money it will happen.

Either accept it, or jump to the Lakers bandwagon...

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

How is Ghost Writer, after all the experience and knowledge of the Spurs, still an idiot?

[vander]

a Ghost Writer sighting?

how you doing on that "tank 08-09" theory?

-Mars

and how's that Kidd to Dallas trade working out? :lol

But yeah Bowen is not much of an asset anymore, I was enraged when they gave him that extension, WTF were they thinking?

[rascal]

Always hated Bowens game. He is a big reason most of the country can't stand watching the Spurs and call them boring. The sooner this guy gets phased out the better.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I am begging you to dig into the "Best of Bowen" archives and show me where he held Kobe. The bottom line is that Kobe will always get his 25 some-odd points, regardless of who guards him.

Yes, but Bowen makes Kobe work harder for those points and take more shots in order to get them. He also limits Kobe's offense to Kobe and makes sure it isn't contagious with the rest of the Lakers. There's more to defending a player than limiting the points he scores.

[de Soto]

Saving? There's obviously nothing to save.

[ChumpDumper]

Haters never understood Spurs basketball.

Typical.

[Ghost Writer]

The argument that Bowen used to make Kobe work harder on offense is completely negated by the fact that teams never honored Bowen at all when the Spurs were on offense.

You want a more complete player that can play on both ends of the floor, because no one is stopping Kobe. Period.

[exstatic]

I am begging you to dig into the "Best of Bowen" archives and show me where he held Kobe. The bottom line is that Kobe will always get his 25 some-odd points, regardless of who guards him.

The difference is that when Bowen guards him, Kobe gets 29 on 27 shots, meaning fewer touches for his teammates. He's working SO hard to just score agaisnt Bowen, he gets tunnel vision and tunes out his team. Kobe rung up 29 on only 19 shots against Mason. Everyone was involved. Everyone scored.

The Spurs defense has been slipping by small increments over the last 5 years, but it's no small coincidence that it's fallen off a fucking cliff this year with Bowen playing fewer minutes than he ever has for us. The rotations are for shit, and teams are running on us with abandon. You've wanted the Spurs to become the Suns for years, GW. Don't be disappointed when our season ends like theirs usually does, fool.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The argument that Bowen used to make Kobe work harder on offense is completely negated by the fact that teams never honored Bowen at all when the Spurs were on offense.

You want a more complete player that can play on both ends of the floor, because no one is stopping Kobe. Period.

ya know that post count really gives a false impression of how much you know about basketball.

[senorglory]

I'd like to believe that Bowen is being saved for the playoffs, but his play, at extended minutes, early in the season, more likely suggests that Bowen is sitting because he isn't playing well.

[fotan2]

agree with the OP at some points . by ignoring the reality ,people like to say that pop is saving Bowen for 82 games for the playoffs . but that game might be a clutch game of the whole season ,talking about the homecourt advantage . there is no reason that pop should save bowen's playing time at that game , 81 games and 82 games are no difference .

but i still believe Bowen is not done

[underdawg]

The argument that Bowen used to make Kobe work harder on offense is completely negated by the fact that teams never honored Bowen at all when the Spurs were on offense.

You want a more complete player that can play on both ends of the floor, because no one is stopping Kobe. Period.

Yeah, it's not like Bowen ever scored any points against the Lakers. Seriously, are you and Mrs. Spurs the same poster?

[Ghost Writer]

The difference is that when Bowen guards him, Kobe gets 29 on 27 shots, meaning fewer touches for his teammates. He's working SO hard to just score agaisnt Bowen, he gets tunnel vision and tunes out his team. Kobe rung up 29 on only 19 shots against Mason. Everyone was involved. Everyone scored.

The Spurs defense has been slipping by small increments over the last 5 years, but it's no small coincidence that it's fallen off a fucking cliff this year with Bowen playing fewer minutes than he ever has for us. The rotations are for shit, and teams are running on us with abandon. You've wanted the Spurs to become the Suns for years, GW. Don't be disappointed when our season ends like theirs usually does, fool.

ex, you are better than that.

First, where is your basis for Kobe needing 27 shots to get 29 points? How many times did that happen? Are you clinging to the post-Shaq, pre-Gasol Kobe? Newsflash: Kobe has Gasol, Bynum and a team now.

Also, the Suns resemble the Spurs these days with an emphasis on the defensive end and low-post play in a more halfcourt game.

If you are going to tow the company line, please at least stay current.

Bowen is done and should never had been featured as much as he was with the Spurs in his "prime." The notion that he is being "saved for the playoffs" smacks of Robert Horry last season.

How's retirement, Big Shot?

[timvp]

Bye, bye Bowen. You've finally been relegated to off-the-bench defensive specialist... a role that I have been pining for him to have for years.Yeah, those three championships the Spurs won during your "pining years" sure did suck.

Quality take :tu

[Ghost Writer]

Yeah, those three championships the Spurs won during your "pining years" sure did suck.

Quality take :tu

Dude, look me in the eye and tell me that Bowen is a complete player and that four rings were all that the Spurs could've won in the Duncan era.

Or at least pretend to look me in the eye.

Do you have a WebCam?




P.S.

Just because Bowen is a "friend of the family" and a terrific community philanthropist, it doesn't give you the right to create a false perception of his basketball skills.


What is so bad about bringing him off the bench as a "cooler" of sorts?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

What is so bad about bringing him off the bench as a "cooler" of sorts?

I thought you were against him getting off the bench at all.

[Ghost Writer]

No.

I don't just post things to get a rise out of people.

I know Bowen is a tremendous perimeter defender, or at least was.

My argument was that he should be used as a defensive specialist, not counted on for starter's minute, because having him in our offense allows defenses to sag and whoever is guarding him to catch a break, because all he can do is hit the baseline 3.

[rascal]

ex, you are better than that.

First, where is your basis for Kobe needing 27 shots to get 29 points? How many times did that happen? Are you clinging to the post-Shaq, pre-Gasol Kobe? Newsflash: Kobe has Gasol, Bynum and a team now.

Also, the Suns resemble the Spurs these days with an emphasis on the defensive end and low-post play in a more halfcourt game.

If you are going to tow the company line, please at least stay current.

Bowen is done and should never had been featured as much as he was with the Spurs in his "prime." The notion that he is being "saved for the playoffs" smacks of Robert Horry last season.

How's retirement, Big Shot?

No ex is not better than that. He is one of the biggest homers on this board.

[Ginobilly]

No.

I don't just post things to get a rise out of people.

I know Bowen is a tremendous perimeter defender, or at least was.

My argument was that he should be used as a defensive specialist, not counted on for starter's minute, because having him in our offense allows defenses to sag and whoever is guarding him to catch a break, because all he can do is hit the baseline 3.

Bowen was a defensive beast in his prime, but sadly he is not in his prime anymore.

[exstatic]

No.

I don't just post things to get a rise out of people.

I know Bowen is a tremendous perimeter defender, or at least was.

My argument was that he should be used as a defensive specialist, not counted on for starter's minute, because having him in our offense allows defenses to sag and whoever is guarding him to catch a break, because all he can do is hit the baseline 3.

With Mason in the fold, the problem isn't Bowen, it's Finley. Pop F'd up. There was always a scoring deficit in the starting lineup, with Ginobili coming off the bench. I don't think he realized that Mason should have been plugged in for Finley, and not for Bowen. Fin is shooting well this year, but the opposing teams are just killing him on defense, and Mason could give us everything he does, and more on offense, and still play some defense. The scoring droughts of last year were a result of the Finley/Bowen combo on the floor. Neither of them can create anything beyond their own bowel movement. If you simply plugged Mason in for Finley, you improve both the offense and defense of the starting unit. By plugging Mason in for Bowen, you improved the offense, but drastically cut the defensive effectiveness.

[Dex]

I think ex is on to something.

I think pretty much everyone was surprised when Bowen got moved to the bench. If you rewind to the beginning of this season, and tell everyone that Mason would be guaranteed to blow up as a scorer, I think 99 out of 100 posters would've relegated Finley to the bench and put Mason alongside Bowen on the starting wing. Let Finley try to come in and score his points.

Instead, Pop's man love for Finley continues, and Bowen is now consistently only getting about 15 minutes a game off the bench. Maybe Pop is trying to save his old legs for playoffs, but it's hard to look at a dip in the Spurs defensive production, and a lack of minutes for Bruce, and think they don't go hand in hand.

While Bruce is admittedly a void on offense, Finley is equally as bad on the defensive end, and I don't remember him putting the same stamp on three championships that Bowen did.

[timvp]

With Mason in the fold, the problem isn't Bowen, it's Finley. Pop F'd up. There was always a scoring deficit in the starting lineup, with Ginobili coming off the bench. I don't think he realized that Mason should have been plugged in for Finley, and not for Bowen. It should be noted that Pop originally gave Bowen's spot to Udoka, which would have helped keep the defensive integrity intact. However, Udoka in the starting lineup lasted about two and a half game because he melted down once given the promotion.

Finley ended up getting the starting job by default. I just hope that Pop by playoff time is giving Bowen the majority of the small forward minutes. And Pop better not find minutes for Finley by cutting into RMJ's minutes . . .

[SA210]

With Mason in the fold, the problem isn't Bowen, it's Finley. Pop F'd up. There was always a scoring deficit in the starting lineup, with Ginobili coming off the bench. I don't think he realized that Mason should have been plugged in for Finley, and not for Bowen. Fin is shooting well this year, but the opposing teams are just killing him on defense, and Mason could give us everything he does, and more on offense, and still play some defense. The scoring droughts of last year were a result of the Finley/Bowen combo on the floor. Neither of them can create anything beyond their own bowel movement. If you simply plugged Mason in for Finley, you improve both the offense and defense of the starting unit. By plugging Mason in for Bowen, you improved the offense, but drastically cut the defensive effectiveness.

:toast



I think ex is on to something.

I think pretty much everyone was surprised when Bowen got moved to the bench. If you rewind to the beginning of this season, and tell everyone that Mason would be guaranteed to blow up as a scorer, I think 99 out of 100 posters would've relegated Finley to the bench and put Mason alongside Bowen on the starting wing. Let Finley try to come in and score his points.

Instead, Pop's man love for Finley continues, and Bowen is now consistently only getting about 15 minutes a game off the bench. Maybe Pop is trying to save his old legs for playoffs, but it's hard to look at a dip in the Spurs defensive production, and a lack of minutes for Bruce, and think they don't go hand in hand.

While Bruce is admittedly a void on offense, Finley is equally as bad on the defensive end, and I don't remember him putting the same stamp on three championships that Bowen did.


:toast

Bruce needs to start, period.

[urunobili]

Bruce needs to start, period.

:tu

[pad300]

Dude, look me in the eye and tell me that Bowen is a complete player and that four rings were all that the Spurs could've won in the Duncan era.


I think this argument is pretty F'ed up here GW. Sure we could have won more rings the Duncan era, but blaming Bruce in the starting SF spot is wrong. It's other spots that have killed us.
Bowen time with the Spurs
01-02 Lost to Lakers SemiFinals - What Killed us > lakers were a better team (only 4 of 10 playoff games and 81 minutes from DRob, Danny Ferry, Antonio Daniels, Terry Porter, and Steve Smith all played significant playoff minutes...)
02-03 Champions
03-04 Lost to Lakers Semifinals - What killed us > Turkeyglue wussing out.
04-05 Championship
05-06 Lost to Dallas Semifinals- What killed us > Small Ball (Mike Finley as PF) - our bigs weren't good enough or Pop was scared off, Back up PG was BAD.
06-07 Championship
07-08 Lost to Lakers Semifinals - What killed us > Manu's injury, and not playing enough Barry/Too much Finley (and back up PG wasn't good enough)