Mavs Slumping Again, Seeking Offense, Answers

[duncan228]

Mavs slumping again, seeking offense, answers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-muddledmavericks&prov=ap&type=lgns)


Dirk Nowitzki was looking forward to having Thursday off, a sign of how bad things are for the Dallas Mavericks.

[Allanon]

Sitting in the corner of his shoebox somewhere, former Coach Avery Johnson is quietly laughing to himself.

[dirk4mvp]

Sitting in the corner of his shoebox somewhere, former Coach Avery Johnson is quietly laughing to himself.


Don't fool yourself into thinking he'd make a lick of difference right now.

[Findog]

Sitting in the corner of his shoebox somewhere, former Coach Avery Johnson is quietly laughing to himself.

Why is that? Does 39-34 and 9-26 against +.500 teams since the Kidd trade vindicate him or something? Because he whined like a bitch for Cuban to go out and get him a "real PG" since Devin would never amount to anything.

[Allanon]

Even with Avery's problems, the Mavs won 51 games last year and made the Playoffs.

With the way things are going now, the Mavs look to be winning 45 games and missing the Playoffs. I think the personnel hasn't changed since last year so there really is no valid excuse for missing the Playoffs.

If the Mavs miss the Playoffs this year, Avery's gonna think about making his own Mav Rap song "Mavs couldn't do it without me"

[jack sommerset]

I think Kidd is having a good season but he looks like its not coming easy. Perhaps his age is coming through. And of course J-HO needs to be gone.

[Findog]

Even with Avery's problems, the Mavs won 51 games last year and made the Playoffs.

They were first in the West when Devin played his last game for us. They went something like 16-14 with Kidd the rest of the way. So, that works out to 35-17 without Kidd and 16-14 with him.


With the way things are going now, the Mavs look to be winning 45 games and missing the Playoffs. I think the personnel hasn't changed since last year so there really is no valid excuse for missing the Playoffs.

They've been a mediocre team since the Kidd trade. They made the playoffs last year based on what they did before acquiring him.


If the Mavs miss the Playoffs this year, Avery's gonna think about making his own Mav Rap song "Mavs couldn't do it without me"

Avery will never own up to his role in killing this team's window for a championship.

[jack sommerset]

Well said Findog. I agree with everything you said.

[Allanon]

Well here's a question for you and maybe you know the answer.

I notice every time the Devin Harris trade is brought up, Avery just won't talk about it or there's an awkward silence (like that Bill Walton "How did you trade this guy?").

It seems like Avery didn't want to trade Devin Harris and Cuban insisted so Avery had to fold. What's your take? Was it Avery that wanted Kidd or Cuban?

[Bob Lanier]

If Avery keeps up that laughing God won't love him anymore.

[jack sommerset]

Well here's a question for you and maybe you know the answer.

I notice every time the Devin Harris trade is brought up, Avery just won't talk about it or there's an awkward silence (like that Bill Walton "How did you trade this guy?").

It seems like Avery didn't want to trade Devin Harris and Cuban insisted so Avery had to fold. What's your take? Was it Avery that wanted Kidd or Cuban?


I think Avery bitched so much about Devon that the trade was a no brainer for the Mavs organization.(what they gave was STUPID) I also think Avery being a young coach had some animosity about Kidd and he did not play him the way he should have. I think Avery got caught with the old cliche "be careful what you wish for" Plus I think Avery sucks.

[Findog]

Well here's a question for you and maybe you know the answer.

I notice every time the Devin Harris trade is brought up, Avery just won't talk about it or there's an awkward silence (like that Bill Walton "How did you trade this guy?").

It seems like Avery didn't want to trade Devin Harris and Cuban insisted so Avery had to fold. What's your take? Was it Avery that wanted Kidd or Cuban?

Did you read my earlier post? Avery requested that Cuban get him Jason Kidd...then washed his hands of it when it was apparent it wasn't working. Avery is a douche. Cuban and Donnie have done their fair share to fuck this thing up, but Avery deserves quite a bit of blame as well - his terrible coaching against Miami and Golden State and then his giving up on Devin. If he's silent, it's because he knows the truth.

[Allanon]

Ah so it WAS Avery who wanted to get rid of Devin, not the other way around. It seems from Avery that he was against the trade.

That also explains why Avery goes quiet every time that trade is mentioned. It was more of "I f*cked up" quiet, not a "I told you so"

Thanks for the info, I was wondering about this for a long time.

[jack sommerset]

Ah so it WAS Avery who wanted to get rid of Devin, not the other way around. It seems from Avery that he was against the trade.

That also explains why Avery goes quiet every time that trade is mentioned. It was more of "I f*cked up" quiet, not a "I told you so"

Thanks for the info, I was wondering about this for a long time.

If thats true you can be very professional in saying " I did not want Kidd" Its not like Cuban opinion goes very far in the NBA.

[jack sommerset]

If thats true you can be very professional in saying " I did not want Kidd" Its not like Cuban opinion goes very far in the NBA.

With that said, I imagine this scenerio. Avery bitches all the time about Devin. You saw it in games. Avery felt he had to call all the plays like he is the point guard. Cuban with Avery's input decided lets get a PG who you do not have to do that with. Avery gets Kidd and decides to play Kidd in a role that he has never played before. Like I said in another post. I think Kidd is playing good, much better than last year (he's playing his game) but age is coming thorugh

[ElNono]

Analysis: Hornets, Mavs jumbled in playoff 'crapshoot'

By Art Garcia, NBA.com
Posted Jan 15 2009 5:59AM

DALLAS -- In the humble estimation of their coach, the Hornets are the third best team in the Western Conference.

He adds a qualifier.

"We're behind the Lakers and San Antonio," Byron Scott said. "From third to nine is a crapshoot to me."

The Mavericks are part of that, err, group Scott referred to in the playoff hunt. While giving an honest assessment of his team, Scott may be overestimating Dallas' standing in the West. Don't look at the standings. Look at the last week.

Yes, the Mavs belong to a cluster separated by a handful of games in the standings. New Orleans only owns a three-game edge on Dallas, even with Wednesday night's 94-87 victory on Dirk Nowitzki's home floor.

For those counting at home that makes four straight losses for the Mavericks. As the defeats mount, so do the questions. Has Mark Cuban's team run its course? Is a major shakeup on the way next month?

Though Dallas coach Rick Carlisle doesn't agree, his group appears as lost as it was during the 2-7 start. Carlisle said that was a different team. It stands to reason that these Mavs should be better at this point of the season.

They're not.

"A losing streak is a losing streak," Nowitzki surmised. "Whether it happens in November or December or whenever, it's never fun."

Carlisle has hardly set the league on fire in his first season on the Big D sidelines. The Mavs have made a bad habit of slow starts and Carlisle's erratic rotation has led to confusion in the locker room.

Josh Howard is out, but don't expect get-well cards coming from Houston or Utah. Nowitzki is playing at an All-NBA level. Jason Terry is the early favorite for sixth man of the year. After that it's shaky.

"Everybody can do something better to help this," Carlisle said.

Dallas' 22-17 record is built on a shabby foundation. The Mavs are only 6-11 against teams with winning records -- you know, playoff-caliber teams -- and have a tendency to get blown out. Not surprisingly, Dallas is currently the odd team out in the eight-team playoff tournament.

The season isn't even halfway done and seven of the losses are by double-digits, with four of at least 19 points. The Mavs lost 11 by at least 10 last season and only two by 19 or more. Dallas squandered a five-point halftime lead to New Orleans and was outscored 53-41 in the second half.

Somehow, the Mavs lost their fourth straight despite shooting 50 percent and going perfect from the line. Fourteen turnovers hurt -- Chris Paul accounted for half with seven steals --- and woeful transition defense, especially in the second half, doomed Dallas.

"The thing that can't happen is frustration building to the point where it gets detrimental," Carlisle said of the team's mental state.

The Hornets aren't without their issues. Inconsistency, especially on the offensive end, has plagued Scott's squad all season. Peja Stojakovic and Tyson Chandler aren't scoring as much as last season.

Ball movement has been a concern. There's been a little too much standing around and watching Paul. That's easy, fun even, to do, but not effective in the long term. In any case, Paul is going to do his thing and had his MVP moments Wednesday.

Just as he did in the first round last April, CP3 tortured the Mavs. Former Mavs coach Avery Johnson called him a Nate Archibald starter kit then. Magic Johnson's name was floated out as a comparison before tip.

"He has separated himself," Scott said of Paul. "The consensus around the league is that he right now is the best point guard in the league."

Paul clinched the first-round win with a triple double back then. He made a run at quadruple this time with 33 points, 11 assists, 10 boards and those seven rips. Paul has four triple-doubles this season.

"That is just every night for him," teammate David West said. "He played really well and we needed it."

The Hornets had lost three of the previous five, including an embarrassing home loss to New York before flying into Texas for the start of a three-game trip. Eastern Conference-leading Cleveland is up next.

LeBron James and his Cavaliers offer a measuring stick comparable to Scott's West pacesetters. The Lakers and Spurs remain the mechanical hare in front of the greyhound.

"I know that we can be on that plateau as well," Scott said. "We've beaten both of those teams, but we've beaten them when we really had our mind set on coming out and playing a great game against a great opponent."

Dallas may or may not qualify.

LINK (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/art_garcia/01/15/garcia.mavs.hornets.20090114/index.html)

[peskypesky]

When you see what's happened to Dallas and Phoenix since the Kidd and Shaq trades, it makes me really very glad the Spurs' FO has never been dumb (desperate?) enough to make any "blockbuster" trades in the Duncan era.

For years, Phoenix and Dallas were at or near the top of the Western Conference (at least in the regular season) before those trades...and even though a lot of Mav and Sun fans still can't admit it, facts are facts, and neither of those teams are at the top of the West since those trades.

My instincts were right, because I said both trades were bad.

[jack sommerset]

When you see what's happened to Dallas and Phoenix since the Kidd and Shaq trades, it makes me really very glad the Spurs' FO has never been dumb (desperate?) enough to make any "blockbuster" trades in the Duncan era.

For years, Phoenix and Dallas were at or near the top of the Western Conference (at least in the regular season) before those trades...and even though a lot of Mav and Sun fans still can't admit it, facts are facts, and neither of those teams are at the top of the West since those trades.

My instincts were right, because I said both trades were bad.

You can't argue with that. I will say durning those trades everyone thought the Spews needed to make a trade. (they lost so maybe they were right)The Spews have proven its hard to get good players to come to San Antonio. Mostly free agents. Knowing this is a players league I would be curious if players that could have been traded to SA said "no". There is no real market value playing in SA. No big endorsements. Throw in the facts that Duncan is the franchise, the Spews tanked the season to get him, Pop is overrated and is a dick, there is probably 20 better point guards in the league better than Parker, Mangoo runs like a wild beast, I am thinking the players of the league want some cash and will take chances making that money playing for another team knowing the Spews Championship runs came with injuries to other teams,supesnsion to other teams they played on these runs, and a ref that is serving 16 months in jail for fixing games. I could be wrong but after all these years you would think a good if not great player would come to SA for a ring or money or both. Be thankful for Duncan,injuries,rules and background checks on refs..

[monosylab1k]

Ah so it WAS Avery who wanted to get rid of Devin, not the other way around. It seems from Avery that he was against the trade.

That also explains why Avery goes quiet every time that trade is mentioned. It was more of "I f*cked up" quiet, not a "I told you so"

Thanks for the info, I was wondering about this for a long time.

He can't flat out lie and say he didn't want to trade Devin, so he just goes silent, as if to imply that he was against the trade. And that is 100% bullshit. Avery is the #1 reason Devin Harris was traded. The absolute, without a doubt, NUMERO UNO culprit behind trading Devin. But after the Mavs season started going down the tubes, he's done whatever he could to hide that fact.

And really, he HAS flat-out lied when he said he turned Devin into a "17 and 10 point guard" when Devin's numbers in Dallas clearly showed otherwise. He's in complete denial over what happened and is telling lies every chance he gets to distance himself from his responsibility in the Mavs collapse.

I didn't mind him too terribly much as a coach (didn't think he was good enough to win a title but didn't think he was totally awful until the last couple months of his time in Dallas), and honestly he's probably a far better coach than Rick Carlisle. But I'll never forgive him for his disgusting lies about the Devin Harris trade, and no Mav fan should. Especially since he tries to pass himself off as a man of God.

[jack sommerset]

He can't flat out lie and say he didn't want to trade Devin, so he just goes silent, as if to imply that he was against the trade. And that is 100% bullshit. Avery is the #1 reason Devin Harris was traded. The absolute, without a doubt, NUMERO UNO culprit behind trading Devin. But after the Mavs season started going down the tubes, he's done whatever he could to hide that fact.

And really, he HAS flat-out lied when he said he turned Devin into a "17 and 10 point guard" when Devin's numbers in Dallas clearly showed otherwise. He's in complete denial over what happened and is telling lies every chance he gets to distance himself from his responsibility in the Mavs collapse.

I didn't mind him too terribly much as a coach (didn't think he was good enough to win a title but didn't think he was totally awful until the last couple months of his time in Dallas), and honestly he's probably a far better coach than Rick Carlisle. But I'll never forgive him for his disgusting lies about the Devin Harris trade, and no Mav fan should. Especially since he tries to pass himself off as a man of God.

Value points. The presonal view about Averys religious views, I disagree with you. I am not a religious guy and not knowing Avery ,I think his view on religion played no effects on how he handled the Mavs.

Anyone to think Avery had nothing to do with the trade is a fucking idiot. His silence alone speaks volume. After the trade he backed the trade. The first game with Kidd ,seconds left in the game, he sits Kidd. After saying Kidd was here to win games in the last 2 minutes of the game, he sits him. Kidd sets the offense and Avery had him do everything but that.

A subject I do not hear about is what role Nelson had on J-Ho. Nelson is known for offense and making offensive stars. Is J-Ho a prime example of this?

[Findog]

A subject I do not hear about is what role Nelson had on J-Ho. Nelson is known for offense and making offensive stars. Is J-Ho a prime example of this?

Josh had his best stretch between 05-07 when Avery was coach.

[ElNono]

I thought some of you Mav fans were going to comment about Carslile words in that article I posted. I think it's the first time I hear quotes from him about the current sorry ass state the team is in, and he doesn't really seem to know what to do about it...

[lurker]

He can't flat out lie and say he didn't want to trade Devin, so he just goes silent, as if to imply that he was against the trade. And that is 100% bullshit. Avery is the #1 reason Devin Harris was traded. The absolute, without a doubt, NUMERO UNO culprit behind trading Devin. But after the Mavs season started going down the tubes, he's done whatever he could to hide that fact.

And really, he HAS flat-out lied when he said he turned Devin into a "17 and 10 point guard" when Devin's numbers in Dallas clearly showed otherwise. He's in complete denial over what happened and is telling lies every chance he gets to distance himself from his responsibility in the Mavs collapse.

I didn't mind him too terribly much as a coach (didn't think he was good enough to win a title but didn't think he was totally awful until the last couple months of his time in Dallas), and honestly he's probably a far better coach than Rick Carlisle. But I'll never forgive him for his disgusting lies about the Devin Harris trade, and no Mav fan should. Especially since he tries to pass himself off as a man of God.
Bill Walton gets in those "how could you trade Devin?" digs at Avery every chance he gets. He's not buying Avery's BS either. Is anyone?

[jack sommerset]

Josh had his best stretch between 05-07 when Avery was coach.


His best stretch? Statiscally? Nelson is known for making his players statiscally great. Coming off a Nelson team that Avery picked up on, I highly doubt Avery or anyone in the Mavs thought J-HO was a product of Nelson. That may have been a problem. What we do know is J-Ho sucked ass durning the finals against Miami. He made some dumbass mistakes that helped Miami. I am not saying it was all his fault but he had a play. Since the finals I think this guy has sucked dick. When I watch the Mavs I see J-HO getting his points early in the game.1st quarter. Helping the Mavs to a lead, padding his numbers. What I don't see is a go to player in the 4th quarter let alone the 3rd.

Looking back I don't think he ever showed he was a go to player. Remember that guy that was traded to Indiana 3 years ago. I forget his name. I think he is still there. That player and J-HO was sort of thrown in the same boat. Well you heard of J-HO, but you never heard of that guy again unless you read the gossip page. He was involved in a shooting with Steven Jackson at a night club. I am pretty sure J-Ho was a product of the Nelson system. Maybe it took a year or so to see it but its here now.

[Findog]

Josh was a very good player from 2005-2007. He was more productive then as opposed to his first year and a half under Nelson.

Marquis Daniels is playing well for Indiana. We traded him away for a year of Austin Croshere. That was another good move by Mark and Donnie.

[ElNono]

Josh was a very good player from 2005-2007. He was more productive then as opposed to his first year and a half under Nelson.

Marquis Daniels is playing well for Indiana. We traded him away for a year of Austin Croshere. That was another good move by Mark and Donnie.

Cubes should fire Carslile and put Donnie as the coach. Just like Isiah and McHale. Kinda like saying 'You put this shit together, now make it work'. If he hurries up, he might have Donnie fired by the end of the season.

[jack sommerset]

Josh was a very good player from 2005-2007. He was more productive then as opposed to his first year and a half under Nelson.

Marquis Daniels is playing well for Indiana. We traded him away for a year of Austin Croshere. That was another good move by Mark and Donnie.

I have read some of ur post in the past and have agreed with most of them. Not this one. J-HO is done and I am not sure if he really ever arrived. Even as a third option with any other team in the league this guy is done

Daniels. Thanks I forgot his name.

[Findog]

Cubes should fire Carslile and put Donnie as the coach. Just like Isiah and McHale. Kinda like saying 'You put this shit together, now make it work'. If he hurries up, he might have Donnie fired by the end of the season.

Donnie was asked to coach the team in the offseason after Avery was fired and refused.

[Findog]

I have read some of ur post in the past and have agreed with most of them. Not this one. J-HO is done and I am not sure if he really ever arrived. Even as a third option with any other team in the league this guy is done

Daniels. Thanks I forgot his name.

I don't understand how you think Josh was more effective as a 15/7 guy under Nelson than as a 20/8 legit #2 option under Avery up until this time a year ago. And he's far from done, since his next team will be acquiring vintage 2006 Josh. He's pulling a Vince Carter.

[jack sommerset]

I don't understand how you think Josh was more effective as a 15/7 guy under Nelson than as a 20/8 legit #2 option under Avery up until this time a year ago. And he's far from done, since his next team will be acquiring vintage 2006 Josh. He's pulling a Vince Carter.

Josh Howard is no Vince Carter. I can make a easy argument why Carter is a Hall Of Famer.Josh Howard is nowhere in the conversation or would ever be in that conversation.

I think I stated my opinion about Howard. You show me 5 more points and 1 more rebound 1 year after Nelson.Okay. one year of improvement with numbers? Who is respnisble for that? He is a young guy especially back then. We know it did not win a ring and he did not improve on it since. Infact he got worse. I'm curious. Look at his stats 1st quarter,2nd And compare them to the 3rd and 4th his entire career.

[dirk4mvp]

Josh Howard is no Vince Carter. I can make a easy argument why Carter is a Hall Of Famer.Josh Howard is nowhere in the conversation or would ever be in that conversation.



the point he was making


---------------------------------------------------


your head

[Findog]

Josh Howard is no Vince Carter. I can make a easy argument why Carter is a Hall Of Famer.Josh Howard is nowhere in the conversation or would ever be in that conversation.


You really don't understand what "pulling a Vince Carter" means, do you?

And Carter is not a HoF'er.

[de Soto]

Things are gonna get a LOT worse for the mavs by season's end!

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[monosylab1k]

Marquis Daniels is playing well for Indiana. We traded him away for a year of Austin Croshere. That was another good move by Mark and Donnie.

That was another Avery-ordered execution.

[Findog]

That was another Avery-ordered execution.

They were dumb enough to sign off on it. They were dumb enough to go along with a lot of Avery's ideas.

[Findog]

Things are gonna get a LOT worse for the mavs by season's end!

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

You should start a thread about it.

Oh wait....you can't. You're so full of Epic Fail even Spurs fans aren't amused:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01237/bush-johnson_1237579c.jpg

[dirk4mvp]

You really don't understand what "pulling a Vince Carter" means, do you?

And Carter is not a HoF'er.



Is there a HoF for dunking?

[de Soto]

You should start a thread about it.

Oh wait....you can't.

It is kinda hard to start a winning thread about...

LOSERS

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[ElNono]

Donnie was asked to coach the team in the offseason after Avery was fired and refused.

The only option I would give him at this point is coach the team or there's the door... Cubes needs to do something about that guy...

[Findog]

It is kinda hard to start a thread


Try it. Hit the New Thread link.

http://www.funfacts.com.au/images/george-w-bush.jpg

Let us know how far you get.

[de Soto]

Try it. Hit the New Thread link.

http://www.funfacts.com.au/images/george-w-bush.jpg

Let us know how far you get.

Whose cock did you have to suck? :rollin

[Findog]

Whose cock did you have to suck? :rollin

Another total burn from you.

http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/George+W+Bush+Meets+Italian+Prime+Minister+a3zA-3_Pi48l.jpg

[jack sommerset]

You really don't understand what "pulling a Vince Carter" means, do you?

And Carter is not a HoF'er.

I was drinking last night.

[monosylab1k]

WE FOUND OUR ANSWERS, MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!

http://d.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/p2/20080409/01/239201577.jpg