Game Thoughts: Spurs @ 76ers - Jan. 16

[timvp]

The San Antonio Spurs had an enjoyable victory against the Los Angeles Lakers but were rudely welcomed by the Philadelphia 76ers on Friday night. Utilizing their unending line of athletes, the Sixers easily ran past the Spurs to post a dominating 109-87 victory.

By the middle of the third quarter, the Sixers had a comfortable double-digit lead on the Spurs. In the fourth, garbage time was on full display. It didn’t hurt Philadelphia that they hit buzzer beating three-pointers at the end of the first, second and third quarters – with respective lengths of approximately 28, 50 and 30 feet.

Honestly, the Sixers didn’t even need those end of quarter heroics on this night. Their game plan of getting back on transition defense and then running on all missed baskets worked perfectly against the lethargic Spurs bunch. In the halfcourt sets, Philadelphia either attacked the basket or penetrated and kicked to shooters.

As for San Antonio, it was definitely a night to forget. Hopefully their defense has hit rock bottom and they are hearing their wakeup call. The Spurs have surrendered at least 105 points in three straight games – which obviously isn’t going to get it done and also brings back memories of how horrible they were defensively to begin the season. The team needs to get back to basics and start playing the stifling defense that is mandatory in Spurs Basketball

Tim Duncan
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3173.jpg
29 minutes, 20 points, 12 rebounds, two blocks
5-for-10 from the field, 10-for-12 from the line

On the offensive end, Tim Duncan played well enough for the Spurs to win. He was physical with his post moves, which allowed him to tie a season-high in free throw attempts. Defensively, Duncan wasn’t nearly as helpful. His rotations to close off the lane were non-existent. He didn’t protect the rim well at all and he was a burden in pick-and-roll defense. While not all of San Antonio’s current struggles defensively are Duncan’s fault, he definitely is partly to blame for the Spurs not being as good on D as usual. Thankfully, this slow start defensively has been the case over the last few seasons and Duncan has always been able to turn it around as the seasons have progressed.
-------------------------------

Manu Ginobili
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3380.jpg
24 minutes, eight points, six rebounds, two assists
3-for-11 from the field, 0-for-3 on three-pointers, 2-for-2 at the line

Manu Ginobili had a quiet and ineffective outing. In the first half, he went scoreless and didn’t look for his shot much at all. He picked up his aggressiveness in the second half but a handful of his attempts were out of rhythm. On defense, Ginobili wasn’t nearly as active as he’s been in recent weeks. He wasn’t hustling back on transition defense and his one-on-one defense was also lacking. Health-wise, he looked a little bit stiff in the first half but looked better as the game went along.
-------------------------------

Tony Parker
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3527.jpg
28 minutes, 12 points, six assists
5-for-10 from the field, 2-for-2 at the line

Going by the statistics, Tony Parker had a decent performance. But with the Spurs sputtering offensively, Parker needed to attack much more often on that end of the court. His passive offensive decision making played into the hands of the attacking Sixers defense. On defense, he matched up primarily with Willie Green and did an adequate job – although he lost him in off the ball situations a few times. Overall, this is the type of game the Spurs needed a big scoring outing from Parker – and they didn’t get it.
-------------------------------

Roger Mason, Jr.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3628.jpg
24 minutes, eight points, one assist
3-for-8 from the field, 2-for-4 on three-pointers

Surprisingly, Roger Mason, Jr. spent most of his time on defense against Andre Miller. Mason did a commendable job against Miller by using his length to keep Miller from finding his teammates as much as usual. The fact that Pop is starting to broaden his defensive trust in Mason is a good sign for Mason’s future with the team. Offensively, he shot the ball well from beyond the arc but had a few ugly sequences when he tried to take the ball to the rim. It’d also be nice if Mason started getting rebounds and/or assists once again.
-------------------------------

Michael Finley
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3023.jpg
22 minutes, two points, two rebounds
1-for-9 from the field, 0-for-4 on three-pointers

Michael Finley had a frightening outing that brought back memories of some of his struggles of a year ago. On offense, he had poor shot selection and hurt the team a number of times by not hitting the open man. On the other end, Finley was totally overwhelmed by Philadelphia’s athleticism and wasn’t much of a help at all on the boards. Hopefully Finley can bounce back and this isn’t the start of one of his cold spells.
-------------------------------

Matt Bonner
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3748.jpg
20 minutes, 13 points, three rebounds, three turnovers
5-for-8 from the field, 3-for-3 on three-pointers

The good news is that Matt Bonner had an encouraging night when it came to his scoring. He was perfect from beyond the arc and also used the threat of his jumper to create off the dribble. He also played good perimeter defense in a number of possessions and moved his feet well when caught in mismatches. The bad news is he had a few ugly turnovers that caused Pop to boil. On the interior, he didn’t help at all in terms of keeping the Sixers from dominating in the paint. Plus, once again, Bonner’s rebounding was sub par.
-------------------------------

Bruce Bowen
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3167.jpg
23 minutes, three points
1-for-2 from the field, 1-for-1 on three-pointers

Bruce Bowen had one of his worst games of the season. His defense was downright bad in many instances. Bowen was brought in to try to cool down the Sixers but he usually had the opposite effect. Over the last week to ten days, Bowen’s play has started to slip. Hopefully he can recapture his form and Pop can figure out how to put him in situations in which he can succeed.
-------------------------------

George Hill
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/4488.jpg
20 minutes, four points, three assists, three rebounds, two steals
1-for-9 from the field, 0-for-1 on three-pointers, 2-for-2 at the line

George Hill’s horrific shooting night ruined an otherwise positive outing. He simply couldn’t hit a shot in the halfcourt offense. Hill’s one basket was on a dunk following one of his two steals. The his credit, Hill’s effort was consistent and he kept his aggression level high despite his struggles.
-------------------------------

Kurt Thomas
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3012.jpg
16 minutes, six points, two rebounds
3-for-5 from the field

Kurt Thomas continues to be hot from the field but the rest of his game wasn’t too impressive on this night. He simply got beat to ball and to spots on the court far too often. Thomas also seemed to have trouble keeping up once the pace of the game got elevated. When going against a player who is vastly more athletic, Thomas has to do a better job of using his strength and gain his position early. Lately, he’s been swiping at the ball or fouling after it’s too late.
-------------------------------

Ime Udoka
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3501.jpg
14 minutes, seven points, two turnovers
3-for-7 from the field, 1-for-3 on three-pointers

Pop inserted Ime Udoka into the game in hopes that he could provide a spark. It didn’t work. Udoka started off cold offensively and by the time he warmed up, the Sixers were running away with the game. His defense was nothing special and he failed to corral a rebound in his 14 minutes of play. Udoka’s overall game that he showed at times last year continues to allude him this season.
-------------------------------

Fabricio Oberto
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3988.jpg
12 minutes, two points, five rebounds, two assists, two turnovers
0-for-2 from the field, 2-for-2 at the line

Fabricio Oberto played the most minutes since Dec. 10 against the Hawks. Despite all that down time, Oberto actually looked to be in relatively good shape. He ran the court well and pulled down a healthy amount of rebounds. Obviously he wasn’t going to help negate Philadelphia’s athleticism advantage but he showed that he’s healthy and ready to play minutes.
-------------------------------

Austin Croshere
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.e1d/img/4.0/global/basketball/nba/players/3182.jpg
Seven minutes, two points, six rebounds
1-for-4 from the field, 0-for-2 from the field

Making his Spurs debut after signing a ten-day contract earlier in the day, Austin Croshere actually looked decent. He moved his feet well, ran the court hard and scored his lone bucket on a driving dunk. His six rebounds in seven minutes should earn him some kudos from the coaching staff and could come in handy if the Spurs are once again getting crushed on the boards.
-------------------------------

Gregg Popovich
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/popovich_gregg030428.jpg

Pop didn’t have a very productive night calling the shots. He seemingly couldn’t figure out what to do with the Sixers. First he tried to go big. Then he tried to go small. Then he broke out Udoka. By that time, the Sixers had run down the throats of the discombobulated Spurs. It’s true that Pop didn’t get many good individual performances but he wasn’t helping matters on this night. The only positive that can be pointed to is that no one played more than 30 minutes, which should come in handy in the back-to-back.
-------------------------------

Offense

The Spurs simply couldn’t get anything going offensively. Instead of playing as a team, there were a lot of disjointed efforts. For the game, the Spurs shot 36.5% from the floor, hit 7-of-21 free throws and had 19 assists compared to 13 turnovers. The only good stat for the Spurs on offense was their 18-for-20 shooting from the charity stripe.

Defense

The defense literally got ran out of the building. The Spurs alternated between looking disinterested, disorganized and, at times, simply too slow. The Sixers finished the game at 50% from the floor and 57.1% from beyond the three-point arc. They also had 22 assists and smashed the Spurs on the boards by a final count of 51-40. And really, their advantage during the guts of the game on the glass was even larger. Overall, it was one of the most disheartening performances by San Antonio’s defense on the season.

Drive to Five

The Spurs don’t have much time to feel sorry for themselves. On Saturday night, the Spurs travel to Chicago to take on the Bulls. Although the Bulls are just 18-22 on the season, they are fresh off of a home win against the Cleveland Cavaliers. The Spurs need to come out with a much better effort – especially defensively – if they are to avoid a losing streak.

Believe.

[romain.star]

thanx timvp nice recap

[Obstructed_View]

Austin Croshere
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.e1d/img/4.0/global/basketball/nba/players/3182.jpg
Seven minutes, two points, six rebounds
1-for-4 from the field, 0-for-2 from the field

Making his Spurs debut after signing a ten-day contract earlier in the day, Austin Croshere actually looked decent. He moved his feet well, ran the court hard and scored his lone bucket on a driving dunk. His six rebounds in seven minutes should earn him some kudos from the coaching staff and could come in handy if the Spurs are once again getting crushed on the boards.
-------------------------------

It certainly earned him kudos from me. That's exactly what the Spurs need out of him. If that's all he does, then he's going to stick.

[Spurs Brazil]

Nice recap timvp

Do you think Pop needs to bring Bowen back to the starting 5?

Spurs are playing terrible D and Bruce also is not doing a good job off the bench in the last 2 weeks.

But at the beggining of the season with TP and Manu out we were playing our best D of the season and Bruce was coming off the bench.

What do you think is the big difference from the D we were playing without TP and Manu and now?

[kace]

Tim Duncan
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3173.jpg
29 minutes, 20 points, 12 rebounds, two blocks
5-for-10 from the field, 10-for-12 from the line

On the offensive end, Tim Duncan played well enough for the Spurs to win. He was physical with his post moves, which allowed him to tie a season-high in free throw attempts. Defensively, Duncan wasn’t nearly as helpful. His rotations to close off the lane were non-existent. He didn’t protect the rim well at all and he was a burden in pick-and-roll defense. While not all of San Antonio’s current struggles defensively are Duncan’s fault, he definitely is partly to blame for the Spurs not being as good on D as usual. Thankfully, this slow start defensively has been the case over the last few seasons and Duncan has always been able to turn it around as the seasons have progressed.
-------------------------------

why do you feel the need to always bring the fact that tim usually turn it around defensively when the season progresses ?

Tim is horrible on defense, that's all. he's our leader on defense, so he has a lot of responsabilty here. but one on one, he's simply destroyed by any good low post opponent and he has never protected the rim so badly. our rim is rapped every night.

I'm not saying Tim won't find a way to be his old self on defense, but right now he sucks badly.


Manu Ginobili
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3380.jpg
24 minutes, eight points, six rebounds, two assists
3-for-11 from the field, 0-for-3 on three-pointers, 2-for-2 at the line

Manu Ginobili had a quiet and ineffective outing. In the first half, he went scoreless and didn’t look for his shot much at all. He picked up his aggressiveness in the second half but a handful of his attempts were out of rhythm. On defense, Ginobili wasn’t nearly as active as he’s been in recent weeks. He wasn’t hustling back on transition defense and his one-on-one defense was also lacking. Health-wise, he looked a little bit stiff in the first half but looked better as the game went along.
-------------------------------

Quiet ? Manu took the most shots of our team and he wasted almost all of them. i wouldn't talk of a quiet night but rather an horrible one. It's the worst manu we can have: the one nailing stupid 3 after stupid shots to be the super hero. he has shown wiser game than that recently.


Tony Parker
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3527.jpg
28 minutes, 12 points, six assists
5-for-10 from the field, 2-for-2 at the line

Going by the statistics, Tony Parker had a decent performance. But with the Spurs sputtering offensively, Parker needed to attack much more often on that end of the court. His passive offensive decision making played into the hands of the attacking Sixers defense. On defense, he matched up primarily with Willie Green and did an adequate job – although he lost him in off the ball situations a few times. Overall, this is the type of game the Spurs needed a big scoring outing from Parker – and they didn’t get it.
-------------------------------




Those who ask tony to shoot less don't know anything about bball. Tony has to shoot more and to be more aggressive to be useful for the spurs.

What does he bring if he's not aggressive ? he's not the kind of player who can be passive and still remain useful. i could understand it if the spurs are largely ahead. but not in a close game.

Tony taking 10 shots is a bad thing for the spurs.



anyway, thank you for your thoughts. alway a good reading.

[kace]

What do you think is the big difference from the D we were playing without TP and Manu and now?

the difference was Tim's will to defend. He probably was aware that without manu and tony to run the offense, the spurs needed to defend to win games.

he doesn't seem to care right now.

[urunobili]

thanks timvp u r da man! do you think it's time to insert Bruce back in the starting unit and bench Finley?

[Illusionarist]

Timvp amazing recap as always. Keep up the good work.

[benefactor]

Games like this are the burden of being a Spurs fan. After all of these years, accepting that this team will not play hard night in and night out is still a difficult thing to do. No one really cared that we were getting embarrassed and it seemed like Oberto and Croshere had more energy than the rest of the team combined.

Speaking of Croshere, he actually looked decent. If he can continue to pull down some boards and make the occasional play like his driving dunk then I think he might work out. Coupling those things with his experience in the playoffs and it could be an ideal situation.

[kace]

I agree with everything but your comment about Duncan, his accolades speak for themselves on defense.

which accolades ? i'm talking about this year, till now. he didn't have any accolades this year for his defense.

i know that Tim is a great defensive player. for sure. that's why i regret it's not here right now.

[Crosherelooms]

The only player on the positive side of the +/- avg. was . . . you guessed it, yours truly (+1).

[Southwest Texas Fan]

Games like this are the burden of being a Spurs fan. After all of these years, accepting that this team will not play hard night in and night out is still a difficult thing to do. No one really cared that we were getting embarrassed and it seemed like Oberto and Croshere had more energy than the rest of the team combined.

Speaking of Croshere, he actually looked decent. If he can continue to pull down some boards and make the occasional play like his driving dunk then I think he might work out. Coupling those things with his experience in the playoffs and it could be an ideal situation.

Benefactor you think that Croshere can continue to play like that all season and into the playoffs or do you think that he just showed up tonight to impress Pop.

[de Soto]

That game was a Spurs abortion. Had it been a home game, I would have thrown all the garbage and leftover food on the floor, drawn graffiti on the walls and seats and walked out well before the end of the game. Just how disrespectful can a team be towards their fans who have spend their hard-earned money on very expensive tickets...

Fuck them.

OTOH, Philly was everything the Spurs are not. Very athletic, quick and agile. They made the Spurs look like a bunch of doddering old fools trying to be pro athletes. And when the fuck are the Spurs gonna dump Oberto, that useless Argentinian piece of shit.:bang

[YoMamaIsCallin]

That game was a Spurs abortion. Had it been a home game, I would have thrown all the garbage and leftover food on the floor, drawn graffiti on the walls and seats and walked out well before the end of the game. Just how disrespectful can a team be towards their fans who have spend their hard-earned money on very expensive tickets...


Welcome to the NBA regular season.

[de Soto]

Making his Spurs debut after signing a ten-day contract earlier in the day, Austin Croshere actually looked decent.

That fucker looks like Jay Leno with Down's syndrome. He's not gonna change anything.

[ElNono]

I went to the game with the wife, we were sitting pretty much right between the bench and the TV analysts (I could watch the game on Sean Elliott's monitor). Couple of tidbits:
- Pop was mad at TP when he let Willie Green score on a backdoor cut in like the second 76er's possession.
- Mason came over to the bench early in the 3rd quarter, and took a couple of pills from Will Sevening. Did he had the flu or something? I thought Roger played decent overall though.
- Pop got furious again at the beginning of the 3rd quarter when Matt Bonner turned it over on an inside pass to TD. He called Udoka from he bench right away.

I thought the game was within reach until the third quarter, at which point we couldn't stop them (especially Young and Williams) and we couldn't buy a bucket. We were talking with some 76er's fans (some of which were heckling Bruce, Finley and Salvatore), and they were also surprised how we couldn't buy a bucket after seeing the Lakers game last Wednesday.
As far as Croshere, he was good on garbage time, dunk included, but I seriously think he wouldn't have gotten those rebounds against Young and Dalembert. Those two guys, and especially Sammy, were pretty active on the boards all night. Young was impressive going to the bucket, and Bonner really got steamrolled a lot in the 3rd.

All in all, a disappointing game. At least we got a very nice picture with Sean before the game. And hopefully we can swing back against Chicago tonight.

[duncan228]

Thanks for the thoughts timvp. This is the first time I've read them without seeing the game. I'm even more amazed at the job you do with them, and I have a new appreciation for how deep you cover the games for us.

I'm really beginning to wonder about Duncan's lack of intensity on defense. He came into the season so strong and helped keep us afloat with the injuries, it doesn't make sense to me that his defense would be the piece of his game that he let slide. I expect we'll see his defense back in form by the end of the RRT, but I'm curious about why it hasn't shown up consistently yet.

[de Soto]

I'm starting to think that the Lakers squeezed the shit out of the Spurs. This is not a good omen for 7 game series.

[de Soto]

And Bowen is done too. The Spurs need to shed him ASAP. Thanks for your past services, Bruce. :(

[Chomag]

We have the talent to compete with anyone in this league but so far I just don't see any heart and soul on our team... No way should we be letting these sub - par teams beat us like this, no way we should be letting these teams take us down to the wire to beat them.

Come on Spurs! You should be showing these teams no mercy and show them your pride. 4 trophies and four rings become nothing but trinkets if you don't show anything to back it up.

Stop playing like the competition and start playing "SPURS BALL"

Honestly I hope you guys are right that it's just early but god dammit..

I totally disagree that our guys need to just forget about this game and move on to the next. I hope they are feeling ill in the stomach. Hopefully this game slapped them right in the face and will put some fire in their ass.

Heh, sorry about this rant guys. I'm just very frustrated with the lack of effort so far this season. I love the spurs and have since Drob's rookie season. I just hate not seeing that killer instinct, and miss those days where we were feared by every team.

Thanks for the great take as usual Timvp.

[quentin_compson]

Hey guys, long time reader, first time poster.

First of all, thanks to timvp for providing us with these great recaps. This is by far the best you can find on the internet, and for a guy like me who (being from Germany) usually doesn't get the chance to see a lot of Spurs games except for the ones on weekends your recaps are a very welcome way of being able to follow my team. I imagine it must be especially hard to sit down and write that stuff after such a horrible game.

Concerning the game vs. Philly, the less you say about it the better. Games like that happen, of course, but still the lack of energy, focus and the desire to win or at least compete were disappointing.

This team really has to raise their level of defensive intensity. Although he certainly is not the main culprit, I still think Timmy has to be the first one to do so, as the Spurs' defense starts with him. If he is only mediocre on the defensive end, we usually can forget about the team defense as well.

I agree that Bonner's rebounding is just not good enough right now to keep athletic bigs like those on the Sixers' team from destroying us in the paint. And though it was nice to see Fab and Croshere get some rebounds, the game was already over when they grabbed those boards. Let's hope they can do it again when it matters more.

Anyhow, the guys should be fired up now for the Bulls...

[Shastafarian]

I went to the game with the wife, we were sitting pretty much right between the bench and the TV analysts (I could watch the game on Sean Elliott's monitor). Couple of tidbits:
- Pop was mad at TP when he let Willie Green score on a backdoor cut in like the second 76er's possession.
- Mason came over to the bench early in the 3rd quarter, and took a couple of pills from Will Sevening. Did he had the flu or something? I thought Roger played decent overall though.
- Pop got furious again at the beginning of the 3rd quarter when Matt Bonner turned it over on an inside pass to TD. He called Udoka from he bench right away.

I thought the game was within reach until the third quarter, at which point we couldn't stop them (especially Young and Williams) and we couldn't buy a bucket. We were talking with some 76er's fans (some of which were heckling Bruce, Finley and Salvatore), and they were also surprised how we couldn't buy a bucket after seeing the Lakers game last Wednesday.
As far as Croshere, he was good on garbage time, dunk included, but I seriously think he wouldn't have gotten those rebounds against Young and Dalembert. Those two guys, and especially Sammy, were pretty active on the boards all night. Young was impressive going to the bucket, and Bonner really got steamrolled a lot in the 3rd.

All in all, a disappointing game. At least we got a very nice picture with Sean before the game. And hopefully we can swing back against Chicago tonight.

Pop must be part of that Bash Parker Bandwagon.


sorry sorry, couldn't resist.

[Solid D]

Very appropriate description of the game, timvp. Welcome to the Forum quentin compson. You could see this loss coming the way Philly has been playing since the 2nd half of their San Antonio game. The 'Sixers annihilated Portland with their bounding, attacking, energetic style and their uncanny ability to score in the paint is impressive. They did the same with the Spurs.

During the first half, you could tell this would not be the Spurs' night. A step slow doesn't begin to describe it. This looked like the college kids and street playahs against the over-40s at the park. On top of the speed and quickness on display, the sun was shining on the team dressed in white. From loose balls, to shots that caused even surprised looks and laughs from the shooters, to officials wearing their chef's hats cookin' up some delightful calls, to buzzer-beatering shots that seemed to carry their own sense of entitlement...Phila had obviously pushed the "Easy Button".

In the words of Led Zeppelin:
"If it keeps on raining, levee is gonna break...
Going down, going down now
Going down, going down now
Going, going to Chicago."

[benefactor]

Benefactor you think that Croshere can continue to play like that all season and into the playoffs or do you think that he just showed up tonight to impress Pop.
It's hard to say right now. Exstatic said in another thread that this is probably a 20 day audition and I agree with him. Counting tonight that would give us 10 more games, which should be more than enough time to know where he stands. It would be nice if he does, because if he doesn't we are tossing in our chips in on either a trade or a diamond in the rough D-Leaguer. Worst case scenario is we bring back Tolliver since he already knows the system. TBQH, I am not feeling good about any of those.

Hopefully Croshere knows that his options are becoming limited in this league and he takes advantage of this opportunity to the fullest...perhaps summoning some some of what made him such a great role player in Indiana.

[Hemotivo]

no more sixers until next season right?

[Brazil]

The spurs organization want the team be on top of shape for the POs, physically the spurs have ups and downs, against Phily their lack of "desire" is related to that.
This team must be 110% physically to play his bb this is not the case, the regular season is the pre heating period.

[Blackjack]

You could see this loss coming the way Philly has been playing since the 2nd half of their San Antonio game. The 'Sixers annihilated Portland with their bounding, attacking, energetic style and their uncanny ability to score in the paint is impressive. They did the same with the Spurs.

:tu

I'm not sure how some of you are suprised with this loss.

I actually expected the Spurs to go 2-1 in there last three, with the lone loss coming against the Sixers. (Knowing the matchup nightmare they present and the success they've had historically against the Spurs in Philly) The Sixers aren't a scrub team.

When you combine the facts of how they've been playing recently, with the amount of size/speed/athleticism they possess across the board, the Spurs have zero room for error with their lack of athleticism to cover up for the occasional (or not so occasional) mental-lapse defensively. It's one of the main reasons (since about '05) that you see a quality team like the Spurs go from blowing-out, to getting blown-out by teams, in such a sudden manor.

Without near flawless execution of the defensive gameplan, and the right amount of energy/focus needed on a given night, this it what Spurs fans should expect when this team is faced with the upper-echelon teams/ones holding a significant athletic advantage.

[roycrikside]

Quiet ? Manu took the most shots of our team and he wasted almost all of them. i wouldn't talk of a quiet night but rather an horrible one. It's the worst manu we can have: the one nailing stupid 3 after stupid shots to be the super hero. he has shown wiser game than that recently.

Those who ask tony to shoot less don't know anything about bball. Tony has to shoot more and to be more aggressive to be useful for the spurs.

What does he bring if he's not aggressive ? he's not the kind of player who can be passive and still remain useful. i could understand it if the spurs are largely ahead. but not in a close game.

Tony taking 10 shots is a bad thing for the spurs.




1. For the record, I agree that Tony taking only 10 shots is a bad thing for the Spurs.

2. However, that doesn't mean that Manu taking 11 is something to complain about, unless you're complaining that he should've taken more. Which he should've, since you know, his Total Shooting %, his scoring efficiency, and his points per shot are all still tops among the Big Three.

3. It wasn't at all surprising that Manu took only one shot in the first quarter because Pop made the odd decision to play Tony the whole first quarter, which he usually doesn't, and by now I hope we all realize that Tony playing = Manu not shooting.

4. And if you think I'm crazy about Point #3, then consider that Tony hasn't assisted on a Ginobili field goal in over two weeks. The last time was January 2, at Memphis. It was one of 13 assists Tony has had to Manu in the '08-09 season. Out of 189. That's less than 7% of his total assists to a teammate who's the club's second best option for Tony to pass to.

5. Manu, meanwhile, who's averaging almost half as many assists as Tony, has created more baskets for him (15) than his point guard has created for him (again, 13). Nobody finds this the least bid odd? I'm the only one?


But yes, unabashed COM member, whatever you say. It's just a myth Tony doesn't pass to Manu. Don't let numbers and logic get in the way of your beliefs.

[quentin_compson]

Very appropriate description of the game, timvp. Welcome to the Forum quentin compson.

Thanks, and nice way to quote Led Zep, by the way. :toast

Some of you guys are probably right about this loss not being that surprising. If I remember correctly, the Spurs pretty much always got their butts kicked in Philly in recent years.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Thanks for the thoughts timvp. This is the first time I've read them without seeing the game. I'm even more amazed at the job you do with them, and I have a new appreciation for how deep you cover the games for us.

I'm really beginning to wonder about Duncan's lack of intensity on defense. He came into the season so strong and helped keep us afloat with the injuries, it doesn't make sense to me that his defense would be the piece of his game that he let slide. I expect we'll see his defense back in form by the end of the RRT, but I'm curious about why it hasn't shown up consistently yet.

I really wonder if a part of it is because he is so irritated with the lack ofinside help that being the lone defnesive anchor without a secondary shot blocker/rebounder is taking his toll on him. There were plenty of times last night where he bowed his head and looked like he had the life sucked out of him.

I don't think Croshere is quite the answer, but considering a player with a low post game doesn't seem to be on the market, hopefully Austin can get at least rebound better than Bonner has

[timvp]

1. For the record, I agree that Tony taking only 10 shots is a bad thing for the Spurs.

2. However, that doesn't mean that Manu taking 11 is something to complain about, unless you're complaining that he should've taken more. Which he should've, since you know, his Total Shooting %, his scoring efficiency, and his points per shot are all still tops among the Big Three.

3. It wasn't at all surprising that Manu took only one shot in the first quarter because Pop made the odd decision to play Tony the whole first quarter, which he usually doesn't, and by now I hope we all realize that Tony playing = Manu not shooting.

4. And if you think I'm crazy about Point #3, then consider that Tony hasn't assisted on a Ginobili field goal in over two weeks. The last time was January 2, at Memphis. It was one of 13 assists Tony has had to Manu in the '08-09 season. Out of 189. That's less than 7% of his total assists to a teammate who's the club's second best option for Tony to pass to.

5. Manu, meanwhile, who's averaging almost half as many assists as Tony, has created more baskets for him (15) than his point guard has created for him (again, 13). Nobody finds this the least bid odd? I'm the only one?


But yes, unabashed COM member, whatever you say. It's just a myth Tony doesn't pass to Manu. Don't let numbers and logic get in the way of your beliefs.Nice stat work :toast

If Spurs fans want to travel down the "TP needs to pass it more to Manu" boulevard, I have a lot more respect for someone who can explain their reasoning.

And like I've said previously, I don't like the extreme different Manu splits depending on who the point guard he's on the court with. With Parker, he's become a spot three-point shooter. With Hill, he turns into Allen Iverson. Both sides need to meet in the middle ground.

Lately, I've seen steps in the right direction. Hill isn't as intimidated playing with Manu and has done a better job not totally deferring. And Manu and TP are starting to build their chemistry. A good chunk of Manu's points in the Laker game came with TP on the court with him.

A key for Manu and TP to thrive together is Manu hitting his threes. Otherwise teams can sag on both and it causes too much traffic. When Manu is knocking it down, he can catch pitches from Parker, throw a headfake and then he has a vulnerable, rotating defense in front of him.

The good news is that while Manu and TP haven't gotten the chemistry totally back on track yet, they are still a handful for other teams to guard. Per 48 minutes, the Spurs are averaging 104.1 points with those two on the court. If that improves and the Spurs' defense comes around, that'd be a good omen for future fourth quarters.

And while that's an intriguing stat about the number of assists, I also remember a lot of Ginobili misses on Parker passes during that time frame -- especially on three-pointers. You point to Jan. 2 as the last time Parker had an assist to Ginobili, but a couple nights later Parker at least had one missed assist when Ginobili didn't hit that late three-pointer Parker created. And then the next game against the Heat, I remember at least two three-pointers Manu missed that would have been Parker assists.

I don't know if you are trying to say that Parker is purposely not passing to Manu, which I would disagree with. But I do agree that it'd be nice if Pop utilized a few plays that had Parker passing the ball with Manu going toward the basket. I don't know of such a play in the playbook. It's either pass to Manu for three, let Manu isolate or let Manu run a pick and roll. As it's setup, I'm not sure where Parker is to rack up assists to Manu if Manu is cold from beyond the arc. On the other side of the coin, there are at least a couple plays where Manu is to find a streaking Parker down the paint. Pop needs to give Manu such plays . . .

[dbestpro]

This game was one of Pop's psych jobs. He set up the players to fail by playing Bowen, Udoka and two other smalls on the floor at the same time for crticial periods. As much as it looked like the refs were dogging us in the Magic game it looked like Pop was trying to throw this game. In the end I believe that he decided to save the energy for the Bulls and let the athletic Phil team go. I believe the train of thought was if we try to match Philly in energy and effort we could end up losing both games. So, we give up one to focus on the other all the while Pop gets to give his players the lack of effort speech.

Psych.

[timvp]

why do you feel the need to always bring the fact that tim usually turn it around defensively when the season progresses ?Because that's been the pattern. No reason to cause false alarm when we've seen this same exact pattern for the last half decade.

Duncan starts decent on defense > Gets bored with defense during the winter months > Pop calls team soft > Duncan gets mad and says he doesn't agree with soft label > Duncan starts to play better defensively as the weather warms up > Duncan peaks defensively as the playoffs begin

If we had not seen the same exact pattern play out each year, I wouldn't mention it. Obviously there will come a year when Duncan won't be able to turn up his defensive play but with as spry and lively as Duncan looks overall this season, I don't think this is the year we've been dreading.


Tim is horrible on defense, that's all. he's our leader on defense, so he has a lot of responsabilty here. but one on one, he's simply destroyed by any good low post opponent and he has never protected the rim so badly.This isn't even close to the worst defense I've seen from Duncan at this point in the season. In 2006 at this point, he was about ten times worse. I believe it was 2007 when he was getting lit up by the likes of Brian Cook. This year he actually dialed up his defense a bit earlier in the season so that the Spurs could survive without TP and Manu. He's not playing good defense at the moment but I've seen worse out of him.



Quiet ? Manu took the most shots of our team and he wasted almost all of them. i wouldn't talk of a quiet night but rather an horrible one. It's the worst manu we can have: the one nailing stupid 3 after stupid shots to be the super hero. he has shown wiser game than that recently.Outside of that flurry in the third quarter, he was really quiet. In the first half, it didn't even seem like he played.



Those who ask tony to shoot less don't know anything about bball. Tony has to shoot more and to be more aggressive to be useful for the spurs.

What does he bring if he's not aggressive ? he's not the kind of player who can be passive and still remain useful. i could understand it if the spurs are largely ahead. but not in a close game.

Tony taking 10 shots is a bad thing for the spurs.Agree. Especially in a game like last night when almost the whole team was struggling. That's the time Parker should look to score almost every time down the court . . .

[timaios]

When Tony and Manu play together, Tony give the ball to Manu and Manu create his own shot. That's why Tony has not many assists for Manu.

Most of the time, as timvp said, the assists from TP to Manu are for 3-pointers... and Manu is not very good recently with his 3s.

[DPG21920]

I hate that guys like Manu and especially Mason have turned into "spot up" shooters now. That is what I dreaded when everyone was healthy again. I know there is only so much ball to share, but I do not like seeing guys like Mason relegated to just spot up shooter when they can offer so much more.

[timvp]

Do you think Pop needs to bring Bowen back to the starting 5? I've never been a huge fan of starting Finley over Bowen so obviously I'd be fine with making the switch. That said, I don't think that will happen. Pop has all but said he's limiting Bowen's minutes for the playoffs.

For now, Bowen just has to play better in his spot minutes. Although it'd be nice if Pop put Bowen in before the other team was already rolling at 100% . . .


What do you think is the big difference from the D we were playing without TP and Manu and now?Mostly Duncan. TD went into survival mode with TP and Manu out. He brought his best defense most nights just so the Spurs would have a chance to win. I think he's relaxed a bit with those two players back in the fold, but I expect him to re-engage soon enough.

On top of that, TP can play better defense than the defense he's currently playing. Plus it takes time for the new guys to adjust to Manu's roaming ways. A number of times, Mason and Bonner haven't been aware that Manu was going to rotate and that left shooters open.



I went to the game with the wife, we were sitting pretty much right between the bench and the TV analysts (I could watch the game on Sean Elliott's monitor). Couple of tidbits:
- Pop was mad at TP when he let Willie Green score on a backdoor cut in like the second 76er's possession.
- Mason came over to the bench early in the 3rd quarter, and took a couple of pills from Will Sevening. Did he had the flu or something? I thought Roger played decent overall though.
- Pop got furious again at the beginning of the 3rd quarter when Matt Bonner turned it over on an inside pass to TD. He called Udoka from he bench right away.Good observations. Thanks :tu


Hey guys, long time reader, first time poster.Nice post.

Post more, lurk less :smokin


I'm not sure how some of you are suprised with this loss.Yeah, this wasn't too surprising of a loss. The Sixers pretty much dominated that last game with the Spurs outside of the first quarter.

What's funny is the Spurs had bad luck to catch the Sixers both times without Brand. With Brand, the Spurs matchup much better with Philadelphia. Without Brand, they are a headache for the Spurs to matchup with ... even on their best night.

[Brutalis]

Hate to say it but our boys are a long way from being a title contender right now.

[timvp]

I hate that guys like Manu and especially Mason have turned into "spot up" shooters now. That is what I dreaded when everyone was healthy again. I know there is only so much ball to share, but I do not like seeing guys like Mason relegated to just spot up shooter when they can offer so much more.Don't really agree.

Manu's mix of shooting and getting to the rim percentage-wise is the exact same as last year. Plus he's finishing better than ever. The only things he's missing right now are: 1) his three-point accuracy 2) his ability to explode to the rim after catching the ball on the three-point line.

Point #2 is both related to #1 and the fact that he's still getting healthy. Once Manu adds those missing elements, I expect his regular total package to return. He'll get added points due to his three-point percentage and he'll get more free throw attempts due to driving to the basket from the three-point line.

Regarding Mason, he is basically a spot up shooter. His only other main asset offensively is when he's involved in pick-and-rolls. And I do agree that he should get more pick-and-roll looks but it's not like the Spurs aren't letting him penetrate more often off the catch ..... because he simply doesn't have that in his game.

[timvp]

Very appropriate description of the game, timvp. Welcome to the Forum quentin compson. You could see this loss coming the way Philly has been playing since the 2nd half of their San Antonio game. The 'Sixers annihilated Portland with their bounding, attacking, energetic style and their uncanny ability to score in the paint is impressive. They did the same with the Spurs.

During the first half, you could tell this would not be the Spurs' night. A step slow doesn't begin to describe it. This looked like the college kids and street playahs against the over-40s at the park. On top of the speed and quickness on display, the sun was shining on the team dressed in white. From loose balls, to shots that caused even surprised looks and laughs from the shooters, to officials wearing their chef's hats cookin' up some delightful calls, to buzzer-beatering shots that seemed to carry their own sense of entitlement...Phila had obviously pushed the "Easy Button".

In the words of Led Zeppelin:
"If it keeps on raining, levee is gonna break...
Going down, going down now
Going down, going down now
Going, going to Chicago."

Greatness.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Games like this are the burden of being a Spurs fan. After all of these years, accepting that this team will not play hard night in and night out is still a difficult thing to do.

You say this all on the premises that the Spurs are robots? You shouldn't take what the media says literally.

They are in fact humans, and like most humans they get fatigued.

[DPG21920]

Don't really agree.

Manu's mix of shooting and getting to the rim percentage-wise is the exact same as last year. Plus he's finishing better than ever. The only things he's missing right now are: 1) his three-point accuracy 2) his ability to explode to the rim after catching the ball on the three-point line.

Point #2 is both related to #1 and the fact that he's still getting healthy. Once Manu adds those missing elements, I expect his regular total package to return. He'll get added points due to his three-point percentage and he'll get more free throw attempts due to driving to the basket from the three-point line.

Regarding Mason, he is basically a spot up shooter. His only other main asset offensively is when he's involved in pick-and-rolls. And I do agree that he should get more pick-and-roll looks but it's not like the Spurs aren't letting him penetrate more often off the catch ..... because he simply doesn't have that in his game.

I was speaking more of Mason. He was not as much of a spot up guy with Manu out. He does well with the ball in his hands. Like you said, he is very effective in the pick and roll, not to mention he is a good "dribble-drive-dish" guy. I understand you can not run things through him all the time, especially when paired with Manu and Tony, but I would like to see him get a little more action.

He is doing fine as a spot up shooter, but I think he can do more if used in conjunction with different line ups.

[HarlemHeat37]

I also don't understand complaints about Mason expanding his game..HIS GAME is to shoot..he doesn't drive well, he's not a great ball-handler, he doesn't create at a high level off the dribble..he's a shooter..when he's hot, you'll see him mix some offense off the dribble, but he's mostly a spot-up shooter..that's what we expected when we signed him..

like I said in the game thread..I usually don't miss Spurs games, so I usually go out later on at night..last night I went out early, because I wasn't interested in the game..I had a bad feeling..playing on the road after a big game against a hot team..a hot, athletic team, which is something we've had trouble with for years..Philly beat us last year, and they played us close in the game we beat them..they have a more talented team this year..

I completely agree about our D though..Duncan is the anchor, and it goes how he goes..clearly the fact that he was dominant defensively in the stretch without TP/Manu is indication that he can still play great D when he's focused..

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

the difference was Tim's will to defend. He probably was aware that without manu and tony to run the offense, the spurs needed to defend to win games.

he doesn't seem to care right now.

I'm not saying Tim's D is great right now, but accusing him of not caring is bullshit.

Why not discuss the fact that Tim is the lone interior defender most of the time, so effectively he's playing 1-on-2 against the opposition bigs. Bonner floats around and is no help defender, and Tim doesn't play much with Thomas. Give Tim a second serviceable help defender next to him, like Horry or Nazr or Rasho in past years, and watch how much better "Tim's" defence is!

[kace]

1. For the record, I agree that Tony taking only 10 shots is a bad thing for the Spurs.

2. However, that doesn't mean that Manu taking 11 is something to complain about, unless you're complaining that he should've taken more. Which he should've, since you know, his Total Shooting %, his scoring efficiency, and his points per shot are all still tops among the Big Three.

3. It wasn't at all surprising that Manu took only one shot in the first quarter because Pop made the odd decision to play Tony the whole first quarter, which he usually doesn't, and by now I hope we all realize that Tony playing = Manu not shooting.

4. And if you think I'm crazy about Point #3, then consider that Tony hasn't assisted on a Ginobili field goal in over two weeks. The last time was January 2, at Memphis. It was one of 13 assists Tony has had to Manu in the '08-09 season. Out of 189. That's less than 7% of his total assists to a teammate who's the club's second best option for Tony to pass to.

5. Manu, meanwhile, who's averaging almost half as many assists as Tony, has created more baskets for him (15) than his point guard has created for him (again, 13). Nobody finds this the least bid odd? I'm the only one?


But yes, unabashed COM member, whatever you say. It's just a myth Tony doesn't pass to Manu. Don't let numbers and logic get in the way of your beliefs.

easy explanation here (some others posters, timvp and timaios have talked about it): manu is not really the kind of guy that will be a lot "assisted". The only way he will receive an assist is at the 3 point line, and since he struggles here this season, he can't be assisted so much. otherwise, he does create his own shot.


and i definitely don't have any problem with manu taking a lot of shots when he's hot. Eleven shots isn't for sure too much for him. but he doesn't have to force quick shot, especially at the 3. they are often bad shots as it was the case in this particular game.

otherwise, manu, as tim and tp, can take all the shots he wants, that's ok for me.




I'm not saying Tim's D is great right now, but accusing him of not caring is bullshit.

Why not discuss the fact that Tim is the lone interior defender most of the time, so effectively he's playing 1-on-2 against the opposition bigs. Bonner floats around and is no help defender, and Tim doesn't play much with Thomas. Give Tim a second serviceable help defender next to him, like Horry or Nazr or Rasho in past years, and watch how much better "Tim's" defence is!


i don't know if he really cares but he doesn't SEEM to, which mean he looks passive. he's also destroyed one on one and it has nothing to do with the lack of another big.

Actually, it sometimes seems that tim and tony are bored by some games. i could understand that after all the great PO games they had, but the fact is that the west is too tied to throw away any game. Unfortunately, there are 9 teams for 8 spots.

[benefactor]

You say this all on the premises that the Spurs are robots? You shouldn't take what the media says literally.

They are in fact humans, and like most humans they get fatigued.
Bullshit.

It has nothing do with listening to the media. Anyone who has followed this team during the Duncan era(especially the past few years) knows that this team just plain takes games off. They get disinterested, get down by a bunch and just mail it in. This is especially true against opponents that are inferior. It has very little to do with fatigue.