some thoughts about our defense..

[HarlemHeat37]

starting off with the 7-game stretch without both Parker and Ginobili..eliminating those 7 games for the year, our defensive stats look like this:

96.6 PPG allowed, 11.7 TO forced per game, 46.7 FG% allowed..

for the 7-game stretch without them, our defensive stats look like this:

84.7 PPG allowed, 14.4 TO forced per game, 42.8 FG% allowed..

dominant defensively..

now you can obviously point out to the schedule we faced, and the fact that it wasn't a huge challenge..I find it to be irrelevant, considering the talent level we were putting out there..when Roger Mason is your 2nd best player on the floor, you shouldn't be winning many games..we did face a few tough teams..the Nuggets, Rockets, and Jazz..a Bucks team that always owns us..a Knicks team with a good offense..

regardless, our defensive numbers HAVEN'T looked great vs. those types of teams outside of that stretch anyways..

now obviously I'm not blaming it on Parker and Ginobili..it has nothing to do with them..Ginobili has actually looked solid as hell defensively, the best I've seen from him in a few years..obviously it has something to do with defensive chemistry, which is something we're still lacking..

the main part is Duncan and Bowen though..like Timvp pointed out in another thread, Duncan was clearly different defensively during that stretch..it was desperation time, and we needed to go back to Spurs-basketball..he was a completely different anchor at that point..he's been missing rotations all year, and hasn't been anchoring our D like we've been accustomed to..in that stretch, he was vintage Duncan, especially considering his offensive responsibilities at the time..every Spurs fans knows Duncan hasn't turned his defense on until February for the last few years though..

the most interesting observation for me, was the direct correlation with our D and Bruce Bowen's minutes..

outside of that 7-game stretch, Bruce has been playing 15 MPG this season..during that stretch, Bruce played 25 MPG..when Bruce Bowen has played 25 MPG or more this season, the Spurs are 10-1..

we had a 3rd ranked D last year, with virtually the same players..so it is Duncan? Bowen? lack of focus?..we clearly showed the defensive intensity when we were desperate..

[kace]

i don't think you can conclude anything about this 7 games without manu and tony.

maybe Tim and the whole team with him were more focused on defense since they knew they would have a hard time on offense without tony and manu.

Manu has been as good as he can be on defense since he's back. that means good and focused.

Tony usually is only decent in RS on defense, before becoming good in PO. this year is like usual for him.

so obviously, they're not, as you said, the reason for our weak defense.

tim has a big responsibility here simply because he's our leader on defense. We can live with any other spur playing poorly on defense, not without him. that's why he's our franchise player.

that doesn't mean the whole team isn't responsible for this lazy defense.

and maybe the lack of Bruce hurts us. i don't really know to be honest. but playing with a guy on the court always harrassing his opponent and focused and aggressive on D as Bruce is, can motivate all the whole team to do the same thing, no to talk about the straight profit of having the best perimeter opponent defended by Bruce at his best.

[dbestpro]

I think you can conclude that our defense kind of sucks right now. We will not get far in the playoffs without the signature Spurs defense. This is why so many people are wanting another big for the Spurs. We know the defense needs help and the best way to help is to have another big that can block or alter shots in the middle.

[mrspurs]

Excellent points harlem. Your always someone who knows how to control their keyboard. Id have to basically agree with your statements. But Ill also like to add. There are just so many young kids out there just waiting to beat the team of the decade. And I think, maybe its starting to show. I personally didnt see Timmy step up his game in last seasons POs. Teams pretty much handled TP quite well for the first time ever. And Timmy just couldnt buy a basket when tall guys just raised their arms. With Timmy not being able to jump, his shots are finding it harder and harder to find the basket. Bottom line, we havnt been able to stop teams from dunking at will. Not just against Philly, but against just about every team we play. If you cant make stops, you better outscore your opponent. Ive been noticing to many alley-oops and slam dunks by not just the better teams. But by even the weaker teams. I like Matt, he's been improving basically every game. But I just dont see him helping Timmy in the paint. Matt reminds me alot of Horry. A big who just sits out there and waits for Timmy to pass him the ball. Teams are gonna let Matt shoot the ball. And there also gonna drive it right to him and passed him. And once that happens. Teams are getting easy scores. That has to stop. Or like Timmy and Pop have said. We're not going far.

[Bruno]

Spurs sucking on Defense is mainly because of a lack of team effort and focus.
Less Bowen and Spurs not matching well against some players hurt also the team but I think it's the main factor.

I would say that Spurs poor defense is due at 80% by a lack of effort/focus and at 20% by a lack of the adequate personnel. The good news is that effort/focus can be solve quite simply.

[South Side Spurs Fan]

One thing about our defensive lapses...
our perimeter D has suffered more than anything IMO

Hard to blame that on Duncan. Logical with Bruce on the bench...but I've got to think that Pop is using the RS to integrate Mason and Hill into the D as much as possible, so that we'll be able to rely on them in the PO. They will be needed, and I think Bruce's reintegration at that point will probably turn on how well Mason is defending. But to tell you the truth, the breakdowns lately have been so numerous I can't tell where there comeing from. (See Orlando and Philly's 3% percentage as proof).

[Ice009]

Duncan's been getting stops. Tonight's game had a sequence that was a perfect example of it. Ruff also pointed this out that after Tim makes a good defensive play or stop he has to watch as one of his teammates man gets an offensive rebound and put back. What can Tim do there? There is no second line of defense there or blocking out or rebounding from anyone outside of Tim.

If I was Pop I'd really think about starting Bruce again.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Duncan's been getting stops. Tonight's game had a sequence that was a perfect example of it. Ruff also pointed this out that after Tim makes a good defensive play or stop he has to watch as one of his teammates man gets an offensive rebound and put back. What can Tim do there? There is no second line of defense there or blocking out or rebounding from anyone outside of Tim.

Thank you.

Lots of people have been getting down on Tim, but the real problem lies in who is next to him at the 4 (yes, Tim is a centre - it's a nonsense to call him our PF), and in poor D and blocking out by the 4 and also by perimeter players. If Tim had 2007 Rob or Rasho or even Nazr next to him, the D would be vastly improved as they all block out well around the bucket.

Twice in a row today Tim played excellent D (once for a block, the other a bad miss), only for a Bull to swoop in and get the putback because he hadn't been sealed properly. I've seen this a lot, and you can see how it frustrates Tim from his body language after it happens.

Team D is a problem, particularly closing out late on 3s and not blocking out on the boards, it's not Tim.

[HarlemHeat37]

I know what you're saying, but your point doesn't really make much sense..

we still had that 7-game stretch where we were winning STRICTLY by our defense..there wasn't a difference at that time with Duncan's help in the frontcourt..it was actually worse at the time, since Thomas was struggling..

Tim's my favorite player, and I'm NOT saying he's lost his ability to be an elite defender..he's already shown he is in stretches this season..the fact is, Duncan has a tendency to take it easy in the regular season, especially defensively..this stretch is no different..he was a different player when we were desperate, earlier in the season..

we are the SAME team as last year, except with more talent..

I highly doubt Fab Oberto was the reason we were ranked 3rd in points allowed in the paint last year, and just 12th this season..if that was the case, Pop has no reason not to play him..

my opinion is that it's a combination of Duncan not giving in the defensive effort that he could(and will in the playoffs), Bowen not playing as many minutes, and lack of effort as a team in general..

I really don't think it has anything to do with a lack of another big man, like many people here seem to believe..why were we 3rd in points allowed in the paint last year? Oberto is NOT a good defensive player, he's average..if his size is the aspect that made a difference, there's no reason for Pop not to play him, and there's no reason that Kurt Thomas can't come in and play his role(Kurt's a much better defensive player)..

[Baseline]

Finley is the problem. Isn't it obvious? If Pop started Bowen, we'd be fine.

Finley hits a shot every now and then, but he needs to play 10-12 minutes off the bench, not start and play 20+ minutes. No wonder our defense is sub-par right now.

[Josepatches_]

I know what you're saying, but your point doesn't really make much sense..

we still had that 7-game stretch where we were winning STRICTLY by our defense..there wasn't a difference at that time with Duncan's help in the frontcourt..it was actually worse at the time, since Thomas was struggling..

Tim's my favorite player, and I'm NOT saying he's lost his ability to be an elite defender..he's already shown he is in stretches this season..the fact is, Duncan has a tendency to take it easy in the regular season, especially defensively..this stretch is no different..he was a different player when we were desperate, earlier in the season..

we are the SAME team as last year, except with more talent..

I highly doubt Fab Oberto was the reason we were ranked 3rd in points allowed in the paint last year, and just 12th this season..if that was the case, Pop has no reason not to play him..

my opinion is that it's a combination of Duncan not giving in the defensive effort that he could(and will in the playoffs), Bowen not playing as many minutes, and lack of effort as a team in general..

I really don't think it has anything to do with a lack of another big man, like many people here seem to believe..why were we 3rd in points allowed in the paint last year? Oberto is NOT a good defensive player, he's average..if his size is the aspect that made a difference, there's no reason for Pop not to play him, and there's no reason that Kurt Thomas can't come in and play his role(Kurt's a much better defensive player)..


Now TD has to guard the best inside player all the game.He is a center but he was the PF in the defensive line along his career.He usually was able to help his teammates most minutes of the games because Oberto,Horry,Nesterovic,Mohamed,Rob..etc made the hard work.Now TD has to be careful with the fouls because his man is better but he has to stay in the court because the bench sucks so he can't be as intense as he ever was.That made his defense 1on1 a few worse.Now he has to take Shaq,Howard,Gasol,Bosch,Aldrige,Yao..all the game,not only 5-10 minutes of the game.

I don't see any relax on TD.He seems to be so concentrated as always but he seems to be worse because he's the only big.It's not coincidence

The seven games we played without Manu or Tony we played a great D but obviously our outside players had more intensity than TP or Manu because they were fighting to have a role in the team.But we didn't play against great teams neither.If it's not TP or Manu's fault then I can't understand why have to be TD's fault

[HarlemHeat37]

again..we were 3rd in the NBA last year in interior D..if Oberto was the reason, he would be getting minutes right now..he isn't the reason..Kurt Thomas is a much better defender than him..

[ClingingMars]

it's pretty simple. start bowen. bring finley off the bench.

-Mars

[Manufan909]

SO is Fab>>KT at anything other than passing and chem with Timmy?

[mathbzh]

the main part is Duncan and Bowen though..like Timvp pointed out in another thread, Duncan was clearly different defensively during that stretch..it was desperation time, and we needed to go back to Spurs-basketball..he was a completely different anchor at that point..he's been missing rotations all year, and hasn't been anchoring our D like we've been accustomed to..in that stretch, he was vintage Duncan, especially considering his offensive responsibilities at the time..every Spurs fans knows Duncan hasn't turned his defense on until February for the last few years though..


Hopefully that Duncan will be back for the playoffs.