Trading Shaq brightened future for Lakers

[scanry]

Dunno if D228 posted this before, but looks like a great article.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=jy-lakerssuns112108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

PHOENIX – Shaquille O’Neal (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/847;_ylt=Aq8TDSYM0dv3EVo5ufGCr6mezIx4) walked off the Phoenix Suns (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/pho/;_ylt=As6IDcZ9Nl1XvDkN6EC6SaOezIx4)’ practice court and into the arms of Phil Jackson, wrapping his old coach in a hug. He whispered a few words in Jackson’s ear then gave him a kiss that left sweat pooling on Jackson’s cheek and brow. “You know I wouldn’t do you like that,” O’Neal cooed.

This is how it goes with Shaq. He raps about Kobe Bryant (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3118/;_ylt=Ai5GS897u1Ju3py47geAphWezIx4) smelling his ass. He calls San Antonio Spurs (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/sas/;_ylt=Aimo0VcPW5ZYvu2d4kB_c3GezIx4) coach Gregg Popovich a coward. He says Jackson orchestrated the riff between him and Kobe. And then he says he was joking or taken out of context, or both. He’s forever 36 going on 13, and that’s what makes him so lovable. The Big Eraser, making history then deleting it as he sees fit.

By the time Kobe and Phil arrived at US Airways Center Thursday evening, Shaq had already waxed nostalgic about his time with the Los Angeles Lakers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/lal/;_ylt=AuTby3j9.2w8TqzX1jdWxDiezIx4). Kobe? He and Kobe never had problems. Kobe called him fat and he called Kobe selfish, but evidently those were just terms of endearment. Phil? How could he ever say anything bad about Phil? Phil always took care of him. Had the three of them stayed together, Shaq guesses they would have won several more championships.

Bryant didn’t spend nearly as much time reminiscing, and there’s a reason for that: Why waste time dwelling on the past when your future looks so bright?

After Thursday’s 105-92 rout of the Phoenix Suns, the biggest question facing the Lakers is whether they’ll find someone in the Western Conference to challenge them. Extending the search into Utah’s Wasatch Mountains might be the last hope for locating a worthy rival.

“I was telling Luke [Walton] that this might be the first season I average 31 minutes because we’ve been blowing people out,” Bryant said. “I’ve been sitting the whole fourth quarter. That’s pretty amazing.”

The Lakers can thank O’Neal for that. His departure gave them the flexibility to create this impressive roster. O’Neal has the one championship he added to his résumé since leaving Los Angeles, but the Lakers aren’t exactly crying about the terms of their breakup.

The popular theory suggests that had the Lakers kept O’Neal they would have won at least one more title. But even that might be a stretch. Their last championship came in 2002 and making the ’04 NBA Finals required Derek Fisher (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3125/;_ylt=At6h1HUpdnCk3xRIFFiekEeezIx4)’s .4 miracle. By then, the Lakers’ supporting cast had begun to show its age.

On Thursday, Jackson said the decision to trade O’Neal was “purely an economic situation with our owner.” Had O’Neal lowered his asking price for a contract extension, Jackson said, he would likely still be a Laker, regardless of his ongoing feud with Bryant.

“It wasn’t anything about their personalities,” Jackson said.

Few people believe that. Bryant was a free agent that summer, and despite his assertion otherwise, it was widely assumed he would have left had O’Neal stayed. As it was, he almost left anyway, flirting with both the Chicago Bulls (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/chi/;_ylt=Ak6nnZq0XPJ1d.C7JNIjNjGezIx4) and the neighboring Clippers.

With O’Neal’s salary no longer clogging their salary cap, the Lakers set about building the league’s deepest roster. They missed the playoffs their first season without Shaq, but that netted them the lottery pick to use on Andrew Bynum (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3936/;_ylt=ArI22RPTG9t76yLzBhUEpZSezIx4). Give credit to Lakers GM Mitch Kupchak and his front-office staff. Kupchak made one mistake, trading Caron Butler (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3608/;_ylt=Aj_ZKn9vO5pEdCGxt2YqY4qezIx4) to the Washington Wizards (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/was/;_ylt=ApkspMg3TsV.xrrmxCcLWyGezIx4) for Kwame Brown (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3511/;_ylt=Am8BeZ0H.uTWGvd0e6S76buezIx4), and he cleaned that up last season when Brown helped land Pau Gasol (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3513/;_ylt=AmnsTLvsIL_DXHo8ZiJL5A.ezIx4). After Bryant chafed at the length of the rebuilding process, Kupchak brought back Fisher – who had left in the summer of 2004 for a lucrative contract with the Golden State Warriors (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/gsw/;_ylt=AtEubcy.jxnkZdXkXQARfKqezIx4) – to give the team another veteran guide.

“We were all at different places in our careers and it’s very difficult to try and keep that together,” Fisher said. “Think about where we are now compared to then …

“The three years I was away from the Lakers just gave me a greater appreciation for where we are now and the value that you feel as an athlete when you are a winner. Nothing replaces that. There’s no contract, no amount of money that replaces the feeling of being the best.”
O’Neal knows the feeling. Now he finds himself staring up at the Lakers. With eight victories in their first 12 games, the Suns had hoped to measure themselves against the conference’s defending champs. Turns out they needed an odometer rather than a yardstick.

While most West teams would be happy to own an 8-5 record, the Suns admit they’re still searching for an identity, caught between their seven-seconds-or-less past and new coach Terry Porter’s insistence they pound the ball into O’Neal. In the process, they have marginalized Steve Nash (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3103/;_ylt=AlSzDgOdUmxHl3QrCUAcAMmezIx4). On Thursday, he didn’t score his first points until midway through the third quarter. Raja Bell (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3467/;_ylt=AruJJyeDrS4ZjFbihKcToXiezIx4), who has previously questioned the new inside-out philosophy, politely declined to answer any questions about the Suns’ offense, adhering to the age-old wisdom that if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.

O’Neal naturally has no problem with the ball going to him, claiming the only thing separating him from his Lakers days is “lesser shots.” “For an old man,” he said, “I still demand a double- and triple-team.”

O’Neal does do that on occasion. But as well as he’s played this season, the Suns can’t depend on him to be a game-changing force every night, at least not until they learn to better space their offense around him. The Lakers swarmed O’Neal often Thursday and the Suns didn’t make them pay. Afterward, O’Neal gave a gracious nod to his opponent.

“They’re the best team,” O’Neal said.

That says something about how far the Lakers have come. For now, Shaq can answer the what-ifs. Kobe doesn’t need to look back on his glory days. Not with so many more seemingly still ahead of him.

[Fabbs]

What a crock of crap article.

The Gasol collusion and Derek Swisher for free were 95% of what propelled the .500 Kobees to make the playoffs and advance.

Now Bynum, props to Buss Jr. for that.

[Lakers999]

^^^ hate much!!!! savor that 1 point victory all you can

[scanry]

^^^ hate much!!!! savor that 1 point victory all you can

Hate to agree with you, but it's inevitable man (for some people).

[Fabbs]

^^^ hate much!!!! savor that 1 point victory all you can
Deal with reality much. Shaq had two years left on his Laker contract. The following two years Miami did the EC Finals and then won it all vs Dallas. Meanwhile the Kobees were .500 three years in a row.

Fabricate all you want.

You Laker sheep will swill whatever it takes to believe it was some *great front office move(s)*.

[Rogue]

It's not shaq's trade that makes lakers have a brighter future. what that trade brought lakers were just odom/caron butler/grant and a 1st rounder, now odom is the only thing left on lakers team but he is gonna become free this summer. butler didn't show his talent in LA so that he was traded to D.C for Kwame brown who has already left LA for Detroit, grant has retired and Odom is gonna leave lakers before long.

I'm afraid the spurs wouldn't have won 4rings if shaq had remained in LA, Kobe can't do that without shaq as shaq said. Trading shaq makes spurs' future brighter, not the lakers'.

[BlackSwordsMan]

shaq + kobe were unstoppable

[BlackSwordsMan]

too bad egos got the better of them

[DrHouse]

Imagine where the Lakers would be right now if they demanded Dwayne Wade coming back instead of LO and Caron. Riley is on record as saying he would have done it had the Lakers held out long enough.

Kobe Bryant. Dwayne Wade. Do you really need much of a team beyond this?

[Rogue]

shaq of his prime = TD n Webber

shaq of today < yao and me :lol

[TheMACHINE]

It's not shaq's trade that makes lakers have a brighter future. what that trade brought lakers were just odom/caron butler/grant and a 1st rounder, now odom is the only thing left on lakers team but he is gonna become free this summer. butler didn't show his talent in LA so that he was traded to D.C for Kwame brown who has already left LA for Detroit, grant has retired and Odom is gonna leave lakers before long.

I'm afraid the spurs wouldn't have won 4rings if shaq had remained in LA, Kobe can't do that without shaq as shaq said. Trading shaq makes spurs' future brighter, not the lakers'.

So Odom is left. You mentioned that Caron was traded for Kwame. Did you forget that Kwame was traded for Pau Gasol?

About Spurs not wining 4 rings if Shaq stayed...did you guys forget that Shaq and Kobe LOST 2 years in a row before Shaq was traded. You guys act like the Lakers won a championship then traded Shaq. Both guys wanted a big contract. How would the Lakers get any better with a salary like that. The Lakers lost to the Spurs, then to got owned by Detroit...a shake up was gonna happen eventually, and to be honest, im impressed that it only took 3 years for us to rebuild.

[024]

shaq brought three championships to the lakers and revitalized the franchise after years of mediocrity. he was voted mvp along with three finals mvp while bringing home to los angeles three championship trophies. the lakers then rewarded shaq by trading him.

[angelbelow]

damn, kobe and wade huh. thats just not fair (good thing it didnt happen!)

[DrHouse]

I've never seen such idiotic revisionist history in my life. I shouldn't expect any better from misinformed Spurs fans though. They've only been following the NBA since 1999.

Shaq was a cancer. He managed to piss of the owner Jerry Buss and publicly called him out during a pre-season game saying "pay me my fucking money". If there's one thing you don't do, you don't piss off Buss. He's a reasonable guy but he'd had enough of Shaq and his primadonna ways. Shaq wanted to be payed $30 million a year, Kobe wanted $20.....that doesn't leave much room to build a team.

Letting Shaq go was the right move to make. Letting him go for Caron+LO was the wrong move to make. Kupchak should have demanded Wade.

[024]

did i revise history? did shaq not really bring los angeles three trophies? did lakers really not suck before the arrival of shaq? did shaq not win mvp and 3 finals mvp as a laker? did he not revitalize the lakers franchise and bring back the team's relevance?

[timvp]

Trading for Shaq brightened future for HeatFixed.

What exactly have the Lakers done since trading Shaq?


timvp we beat the Spurs last year with Manu at -20%. Gettting curbstomped in the finals is better than not making the finals. I love Kobe!!!!! Jordan is a scrub compared to Kobe!!!!

[Cry Havoc]

Shaq was a cancer.

:lobt2: :lobt2: :lobt2:

"Are you fucking kidding me? [The Lakers] should ship out Bynum." - Kobe

Yeah, I see your point.

[DrHouse]

Fixed.

What exactly have the Lakers done since trading Shaq?

It's called rebuilding you stupid fuck. And they bounced your sorry ass team last season without Bynum or Ariza.

I swear to God people hold the Lakers to some ungodly standards. They apparently aren't allowed to rebuild, miss the playoffs, or lose in the Finals.

You should be worrying about your own franchise because in a few years the show will be over (if it isn't already) and you will have to cheer for a cellar-dwellar until you can tank a season in hopes of drafting the next Tim Duncan. We'll see how long it takes for your team to get back on top, if they ever.

[Cry Havoc]

It's called rebuilding you stupid fuck. And they bounced your sorry ass team last season without Bynum or Ariza.

I swear to God people hold the Lakers to some ungodly standards. They apparently aren't allowed to rebuild, miss the playoffs, or lose in the Finals.

You should be worrying about your own franchise because in a few years the show will be over (if it isn't already) and you will have to cheer for a cellar-dwellar until you can tank a season in hopes of drafting the next Tim Duncan. We'll see how long it takes for your team to get back on top, if they ever.

Calling the owner of this site a "stupid fuck" has to make you a super, super-intelligent person. And if Gasol hadn't been gifted to you, all this rebuilding would have been good for about 6th place in the Western Conference and the Lakers would still be a doormat in the playoffs.

:lmao The audacity of some Lakers fans is beyond comprehension.

[baseline bum]

I've never seen such idiotic revisionist history in my life. I shouldn't expect any better from misinformed Spurs fans though. They've only been following the NBA since 1999.

Shaq was a cancer. He managed to piss of the owner Jerry Buss and publicly called him out during a pre-season game saying "pay me my fucking money". If there's one thing you don't do, you don't piss off Buss. He's a reasonable guy but he'd had enough of Shaq and his primadonna ways. Shaq wanted to be payed $30 million a year, Kobe wanted $20.....that doesn't leave much room to build a team.

Letting Shaq go was the right move to make. Letting him go for Caron+LO was the wrong move to make. Kupchak should have demanded Wade.

I've never seen someone shit on one of their legends the way scumbag Laker fans do. You put any player other than Duncan in Shaq's place on those Laker teams of 1998-2004 and they never sniff a Finals, much less a title. About the only thing the Shaq trade did was get them Bynum when they went into the lottery.

[timvp]

It's called rebuilding you stupid fuck.Actually it was called collusion and Derek Fisher throwing his own sick kid under the bus to get back to the Lakers.


And they bounced your sorry ass team last season without Bynum or Ariza.Didn't see that one coming.


You should be worrying about your own franchise because in a few years the show will be over (if it isn't already) and you will have to cheer for a cellar-dwellar until you can tank a season in hopes of drafting the next Tim Duncan. We'll see how long it takes for your team to get back on top, if they ever.The Spurs will eventually suck. Great take. Never thought of that.

Luckily for you, at that point you will be justifying the Lakers trading Kobe by saying he never was any good. Or you'll just become a Cavs fan.

[Chieflion]

Lie. Trading Shaq was dumb and the Lakers knew it. Blame your superstar, Kobe Bryant for being such an asshole.

[Lakers_55]

Here's a couple of posts that relate to things in this current discussion that I made in another thread. they didn't get any replies:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3017890&postcount=27
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3018286&postcount=29

Reminder, Kobe can and will win without Shaq, the only question to be answered is when.

[IronMexican]

I wanted to keep Shaq. I think LA could have had two more titles by now if they kept Shaq.

[BlackSwordsMan]

Shaq left the lakers after that dominating performance TD put on him. Couldn't stand the embarrassment so he went to the east.

[Lakers_55]

I wanted to keep Shaq. I think LA could have had two more titles by now if they kept Shaq.

First off, Shaq asked to be traded. The Lakers position was his wish would be accomodated. We then gambled on keeping Kobe. I don't know if we could have won more titles with him. Since the league had adjusted to our team, and our better role players were gone. I doubt it. Now, we are in contention again, and will be as long as Kobe plays like Kobe. Spurs are finding out what the Lakers found out in 2004. Their team has been adjusted to. They were the best from 2005-2007, but not any longer. Still a contender, yes, but not the favorite.

[TheMadHatter]

Calling the owner of this site a "stupid fuck" has to make you a super, super-intelligent person. And if Gasol hadn't been gifted to you, all this rebuilding would have been good for about 6th place in the Western Conference and the Lakers would still be a doormat in the playoffs.

:lmao The audacity of some Lakers fans is beyond comprehension.

The Lakers were #1 in the WC before they ever got Gasol.

The bottom line is LAL never stays down for long. That's why they are the winningest franchise in the NBA. Great ownership, quality GM's, attractive location for FA's. Simply the best.

[timvp]

The Lakers were #1 in the WC before they ever got Gasol.

The bottom line is LAL never stays down for long. That's why they are the winningest franchise in the NBA. Great ownership, quality GM's, attractive location for FA's. Simply the best.Says the Knicks fan . . .

[Lakers999]

Says the Knicks fan . . .


well what do you expect? people love san antonio spurs for their exciting plays, ginobili bald spot, referee help, and great location of the at@t center out in the middle of no where off the 35 where whataburger are your only major sponsors and rest?

:lmao

look....laker fans are a little different from any other team's fan base we have been spoiled by great laker players and constant playoff and finals appearances. we reward our players by cheering them on buying their crap jerseys, sneakers, speeches, etc. and even supporting them when they are arrested.. BUT... ONCE WE ARE DISSED by the same person we have been supporting for so long (Shaq)...all gloves will come off and hate will begin to spew no mater what that person has done to help our franchise. Kobe never made us angry he just pissed off management with all his trade talk, demads, and attitude... which laker fans supported becuase it wasnt too long ago where laker fans were asking for kupchack head. SHaq rubbed it into evry laker fan face that we cant win without him which is not true becuase he his on his 4th team title hunting to be elite while kobe has been through the ups and downs finally reaching the elite level where at this point its any season for kobe to win it all without shaq. Shaq on the otherhand is on the outside begging, egging, his way to get back in and be with a team and city that gave him so much success and where he had the most fun by winning CHAMPIONSHIPS WITH the best player in the nBA

[Hemotivo]

Actually it was called collusion and Derek Fisher throwing his own sick kid under the bus to get back to the Lakers.

:wow

[cobbler]

Actually it was called collusion and Derek Fisher throwing his own sick kid under the bus to get back to the Lakers.


No more collusion than your getting JRich.... And how is putting his family in the best position to take care of his child throwing her under the bus? I would really love to hear your ignorant explaination for that absurd comment.

Actually, I would rather not as most everything that comes out of your mouth is pure bullshit fabrication born of an extreme jealousy of everything Lakers.

[cobbler]

Lie. Trading Shaq was dumb and the Lakers knew it. Blame your superstar, Kobe Bryant for being such an asshole.

Trading Shaq was a pure business move. And a prudent one at that. The only problem that came from it was the Shaq cried and whined and DEMANDED the trade which left the Lakers bargaining from a weak stance. It is why we had to settle for the players we got. Shaq sealed his fate in the preseason running down the court in front of the media screaming at Dr. Buss to pay him the F'ing money. He wanted a multi year 30 mil extension that would have strapped us thru 2011 with a fat ass whining egomaniac. Did he help us to 3 championships? No doubt. However, he hadn't done shit for 2 years and was only getting more out of shape and asking for more. Furthermore, he belittled teamates, coaches, and front office just like he did to the Magic a subsequently the Heat. It's going to happen to the Suns too.

If you follow the scenario of the trades, what we eventually received for Shaq was Odom and Gasol. And to answer the other post of what have we done since Shaq left? Simply rebuilded in to a ream who made the Finals within 3 years and who will be a favorite to do so for many more. I'm willing to bet when Timmy walks your team wont be back within 3 years. It's why the Lakers have been involved in HALF of the NBA finals to date. We have great ownership who are willing to make prudent business decisions and do what it takes to be the best.

[jack sommerset]

You would think the guy who wrote this piece of shit could wait until the Lakers won a ring since the Shaq trade. Until then just Bullshit

[cobbler]

You would think the guy who wrote this piece of shit could wait until the Lakers won a ring since the Shaq trade. Until then just Bullshit

...just as you would think a Rocket's fan should keep his mouth shut about everything until they actually make it out of the first round. :lmao

[jack sommerset]

...just as you would think a Rocket's fan should keep his mouth shut about everything until they actually make it out of the first round. :lmao

not a rocket fan

[cobbler]

not a rocket fan

Maybe you should change your info then.

[timvp]

No more collusion than your getting JRichHuh? Does Laker Fan watch the NBA?


.... And how is putting his family in the best position to take care of his child throwing her under the bus? I would really love to hear your ignorant explaination for that absurd comment.If Sloan called him out then it's fair game.


Actually, I would rather not as most everything that comes out of your mouth is pure bullshit fabrication born of an extreme jealousy of everything Lakers.Laker Shaq > Laker Kobe.

U mad?

[IronMexican]

First off, Shaq asked to be traded. The Lakers position was his wish would be accomodated. We then gambled on keeping Kobe. I don't know if we could have won more titles with him. Since the league had adjusted to our team, and our better role players were gone. I doubt it. Now, we are in contention again, and will be as long as Kobe plays like Kobe. Spurs are finding out what the Lakers found out in 2004. Their team has been adjusted to. They were the best from 2005-2007, but not any longer. Still a contender, yes, but not the favorite.

I still blame Kupchack for that.

[cobbler]

Huh? Does Laker Fan watch the NBA?

If Sloan called him out then it's fair game.

Laker Shaq > Laker Kobe.

U mad?

Mad? Why would I be mad? I'm laughing actually because as usual you offered nothing up to prove your bullshit comments which have no validity in reality. As usually is the case with you! :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[anakha]

Mad? Why would I be mad? I'm laughing actually because as usual you offered nothing up to prove your bullshit comments which have no validity in reality. As usually is the case with you! :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

If you don't mind answering...

Where did you pick up the notion that the Spurs were getting JRich?

[cobbler]

If you don't mind answering...

Where did you pick up the notion that the Spurs were getting JRich?

My bad... I have gotten so used to Suns fans crying about how Sterns, the refs, and the NBA have screwed them over the years I mistook him to be a Suns fan. Being a Spurs fan, I am sure you realize what I'm talking about. I have heard the collusion comment regarding the Gasol trade from them so much I messed up.

If you actually look at what Memphis has done by dumping the salary they did in the trade, along with obtaining Marc Gasol, it's not so crazy as everyone thought.

[Lakers_55]

I have heard the collusion comment regarding the Gasol trade from them so much I messed up.


What's funny is, the collusion talk didn't start until either:

A) The Lakers started winning
B) Pop criticized it as '"needing league investigation on legality".
C) Both

See my post on previous page for the proof. People just like to bitch without researching fact. I've tried to avoid making a thread about it, trying to add to discussions instead. Either no one is reading it, or if they do, they realize they can't refute it and move on. No one is commenting on my post, that's for sure. I may make a thread soon, dunno right now.

[timvp]

If you actually look at what Memphis has done by dumping the salary they did in the trade, along with obtaining Marc Gasol, it's not so crazy as everyone thought.Keep telling yourself that . . .


What's funny is, the collusion talk didn't start until either:

A) The Lakers started winning?

It started the second after the Gasol trade was announced.

[Lakers_55]

Keep telling yourself that . . .

?

It started the second after the Gasol trade was announced.

Not here at Spurs Talk! At least in the thread announcing the trade. I have it linked on previous page of this thread.

[TheMACHINE]

holy crap..you spurs fans are dumb as nails. "Shaq gave you three title, and youo let him go."...its business idiots! The team was falling apart, we lost two times in a row in the playoffs, players demanded higher salarys...something had to give...and why not give away the guy who is demanding crap, coming to work out fo shape, getting older and yelling PAY ME to the owner.

4 years later...were back on top. SO STFU and learn how to run a business.

[timvp]

Not here at Spurs Talk! At least in the thread announcing the trade. I have it linked on previous page of this thread.

Pau Gasol Traded To Lakers For Nothing (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86161)

Considering that I started the thread, I know that the title wasn't an accident . . .

[DrHouse]

Huh? Does Laker Fan watch the NBA?

If Sloan called him out then it's fair game.

Laker Shaq > Laker Kobe.

U mad?

It's slightly unnerving that the owner of this great site is a moron.

Nobody cares about Shaq anymore. He's fat, washed up, and not relevant to anything the Lakers are doing right now. Had he stayed I truly believe LAL would be worse for the wear and whatever drama you saw in '04 would look like a giant Kumbaya session in comparison. The Lakers made the right move in letting him go when they did. They made the wrong move in not getting Dwayne Wade out of the deal.

Still, they have managed to rebuild in 3 short years and now have a contender for at least the next 2 seasons. Not bad I say. Not bad.

You'll appreciate the greatness of the Laker franchise when you watch your Spurs disappear from the radar completely as Duncan and Pop retire.

[TheMACHINE]

You'll appreciate the greatness of the Laker franchise when you watch your Spurs disappear from the radar completely as Duncan and Pop retire.

Or they can tank the season, and get the #1 pick again. We saw what happened last time they did it.

[anakha]

It's slightly unnerving that the owner of this great site is a moron.

Nobody cares about Shaq anymore. He's fat, washed up, and not relevant to anything the Lakers are doing right now. Had he stayed I truly believe LAL would be worse for the wear and whatever drama you saw in '04 would look like a giant Kumbaya session in comparison. The Lakers made the right move in letting him go when they did. They made the wrong move in not getting Dwayne Wade out of the deal.

Still, they have managed to rebuild in 3 short years and now have a contender for at least the next 2 seasons. Not bad I say. Not bad.

You'll appreciate the greatness of the Laker franchise when you watch your Spurs disappear from the radar completely as Duncan and Pop retire.

Considering the post you quoted was in response to a Laker fan's statement that that person later admitted to messing up on... :lmao

[timvp]

It's slightly unnerving that the owner of this great site is a moron.

Nobody cares about Shaq anymore. He's fat, washed up, and not relevant to anything the Lakers are doing right now.Reading comprehension?

My stance is that Shaq was the better and more important player during the three-peat. Despite what bandwagon Laker Fan claims.

[TheMACHINE]

Reading comprehension?

My stance is that Shaq was the better and more important player during the three-peat. Despite what bandwagon Laker Fan claims.

no shit sherlock.

[Chris]

Our shit doesn't stink.

[timvp]

no shit sherlock.Tell that to your brethren.

[Lakers_55]

Pau Gasol Traded To Lakers For Nothing (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86161)

Considering that I started the thread, I know that the title wasn't an accident . . .

Well, I made it to page 2 of your thread and didn't see a thing about collusion. Why didn't you claim that in initial post, that would have riled up the local Spurs faithful. I believe the collusion part started when Pop challenged it, but I could be wrong, I am not going to read 11 pages of your thread to find out. It was in the Spurs section anyway. I searched this forum with Gasol in title and found an earlier thread, no collusion cries at all:

Lakers Bag Gasol?
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86162&highlight=gasol

So, whatever, it wasn't collusion. Jerry West was long gone and has stated he had nothing to do wth it publicly. Other teams were after him as well and over a month ahead of the trade...

This is from my other post:

Here's a thread about a rumor of a Gasol trade in December of 2007 to the Bulls. Note post #10.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...ighlight=gasol

I remember seeing somewhere Phoenix was looking to trade for him a year ago as well, can't say who they would have given up. Let's just put the trade on the head of the Memphis GM, and see how the pieces he got fall into play as they rebuild. There have been far worse GM deals. Back in 1980, the Warriors traded Robert Parish and a #1 draft pick to the Celtics for a center named Joe Barry Carroll. Celtics used the draft selection to choose Kevin McHale. I think most of the discussion I have seen is targeted against the Lakers because they are the enemy to most people. That is to be expectd here at SpursTalk, and as I said, this is where I want to be involved.

[TheMACHINE]

Tell that to your brethren.

I dont think any lakers fans thinks Kobe was greater Shaq when we were winning rings...but most fans (except IronMex) believe that trading Shaq was the right thing to do...whether it was right to trade him for Odom, butler and grant is a different story.

Regardless, Lakers have been doing great rebuidling whether lucky or not.

[timvp]

Well, I made it to page 2 of your thread and didn't see a thing about collusion. Why didn't you claim that in initial post, that would have riled up the local Spurs faithful.Check out the title. Trading an All-Star level player for nothing = collusion.


I searched this forum with Gasol in title and found an earlier thread, no collusion cries at all:The thread I made was earlier. Check the times.

:smokin


So, whatever, it wasn't collusion. Jerry West was long gone and has stated he had nothing to do wth it publicly. If he did have something to do with it, do you really think he'd come out and publicly say so?

[DrHouse]

Reading comprehension?

My stance is that Shaq was the better and more important player during the three-peat. Despite what bandwagon Laker Fan claims.

And what the fuck does that have to do with this thread idiot? Go read the OP.

Motherfucker coming in here talking about reading comprehension doesn't even bother to read the fucking OP.

[ElNono]

Nobody cares about Shaq anymore. He's fat, washed up, and not relevant to anything the Lakers are doing right now. Had he stayed I truly believe LAL would be worse for the wear and whatever drama you saw in '04 would look like a giant Kumbaya session in comparison. The Lakers made the right move in letting him go when they did. They made the wrong move in not getting Dwayne Wade out of the deal.

He was so washed up that he carried the Heat to an NBA championship. Great take. :tu

[timvp]

I dont think any lakers fans thinks Kobe was greater Shaq when we were winning rings...

Tell that to the future Cav Fan, for one:


Shaq and Kobe were equal parts to the team in terms of importance.

And there were more in the various threads where Laker Fan claims Kobe > MJ.

[timvp]

And what the fuck does that have to do with this thread idiot? Go read the OP.

Motherfucker coming in here talking about reading comprehension doesn't even bother to read the fucking OP.We be on page three now. You think every reply in this thread is based off the OP? Do you know how the internets work?

[Lakers_55]

Check out the title. Trading an All-Star level player for nothing = collusion.
I beg to differ if you please.
Nothing = Your Opinon. You also left Marc Gasol out of the post. Grizzlies dumped cap space, got prospects, draft picks, and an expiring contract. Since Gasol was headed out anyway they liked what they got, they took it. The future will tell more if it was for nothing or something.
Collusion = Illegal action. Quite a difference.

The thread I made was earlier. Check the times.
:smokin

by one minute! Your link sends you to a page where I was not logged in, default time places it nearly 3 hours later. I stand corrected.
02-01-2008, 11:49 AM vs. 02-01-2008, 11:48 AM


If he did have something to do with it, do you really think he'd come out and publicly say so?

I believe Jerry West to be a man of integrity. He was a shrewd GM and fleeced a few other teams in his time, but they were all legal. Burden is on all the conspiracy theorists to prove otherwise, that collusion occured. Conjecture won't get a conviction in a court of law, you need proof.

[anakha]

I beg to differ if you please.
Nothing = Your Opinon. You also left Marc Gasol out of the post. Grizzlies dumped cap space, got prospects, draft picks, and an expiring contract. Since Gasol was headed out anyway they liked what they got, they took it. The future will tell more if it was for nothing or something.
Collusion = Illegal action. Quite a difference.


If specific references to collusion are what you're looking for, scroll down the first page of timvp's thread.

Granted, it wasn't a Spurs fan who said it, but...

[TheMACHINE]

He was so washed up that he carried the Heat to an NBA championship. Great take. :tu

it was a great take. Miami got a ring..where are they now? so if Shaq gave Lakers one more ring, and Kobe left the Lakers...you think we'll be able to rebuild around shaq and his "new" contract. Anyways...you'd be an idiot to chose Shaq over Kobe at 2005.

[Lakers_55]

If specific references to collusion are what you're looking for, scroll down the first page of timvp's thread.

Granted, it wasn't a Spurs fan who said it, but...

Thanks, but I'll pass. All I know is it took Popovich to question it publicly before the real conspiracy cries took place and frequently. Or, when the Lakers started winning, or both... Gee, I said that already.

[DrHouse]

it was a great take. Miami got a ring..where are they now? so if Shaq gave Lakers one more ring, and Kobe left the Lakers...you think we'll be able to rebuild around shaq and his "new" contract. Anyways...you'd be an idiot to chose Shaq over Kobe at 2005.

They are idiots. Hence the 3 pages.

[cobbler]

Considering the post you quoted was in response to a Laker fan's statement that that person later admitted to messing up on... :lmao

I only admitted messing up on assuming timvp was a Suns fan. Other than that the fact are the facts. I had previously been involved in a thread where Suns fans where whining about collusion as well stating we traded a couple of avg players for an all star...much the same as they did for JRich. Of course...their relpies were they got lucky but in our case it was collusion. They also belive the lottery was fixed to get you guys timmy. It's funny how the conspiricy theories are only true if for the ones that don't include your team.

Personally, I think its all hogwash and sour grapes.

[cobbler]

He was so washed up that he carried the Heat to an NBA championship. Great take. :tu

Are you kidding me? He was a servicable center at best. Wade carried them through the playoffs and was MVP of the finals in a LANDSLIDE. Shaq wasnt even a consideration. ANd then the next year when Wade got hurt... the guy you say carried the team... carried them to the worst record in the NBA halfway through the season then DEMANDED to be traded and then bashed teamates, coach, and organization.

Just has he did with the Lakers and Magic before that.

Funny how people distort the facts.

[anakha]

I only admitted messing up on assuming timvp was a Suns fan. Other than that the fact are the facts.

No big deal - I was just poking fun at the fact that your fellow Laker fan was insulting one of the admins in his zeal to back up a statement that had flaws in it to begin with.

And IMO, the article was reaching in implying that the Lakers were doing a bang-up job of rebuilding when most of Kupchak's moves were lateral ones at best, until the Gasol opportunity fell in his lap.

[cobbler]

January 15, 1965: San Francisco Warriors trade Wilt Chamberlain to Philadelphia 76ers for Paul Neumann, Connie Dierking, and Lee Shaffer

June 9, 1980: Golden State Warriors trade Robert Parish and No. 3 pick (Kevin McHale) to Boston Celtics for Nos. 1 and 13 picks (Joe Barry Carroll and Rickey Brown)

June 16, 1975: Milwaukee Bucks trade Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Walt Wesley to L.A. Lakers for Elmore Smith, Junior Bridgeman, Brian Winters, and Dave Meyers

July 14, 2004: L.A. Lakers trade Shaquille O’Neal to Miami Heat for Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, Brian Grant, and a future first-round draft pick

September 15, 1982: Houston Rockets trade Moses Malone to Philadelphia 76ers for Caldwell Jones and a 1983 first-round draft choice

April 20, 1970: Cincinnati Royals trade Oscar Robertson to Milwaukee Bucks for Flynn Robinson and Charlie Paulk

June 24, 1998: Milwaukee Bucks trade draft rights to Dirk Nowitzki and Pat Garrity to Dallas Mavericks for draft rights to Robert Traylor

September 1, 2000: Portland Trail Blazers trade Jermaine O’Neal and Joe Kleine to Indiana Pacers for Dale Davis

April 30, 1956: St. Louis Hawks trade draft rights to Bill Russell to Boston Celtics for Ed Macauley and Cliff Hagan

July 17, 1992: Philadelphia 76ers trade Charles Barkley to Phoenix Suns for Jeff Hornacek, Tim Perry, and Andrew Lang

June 27, 1987: Seattle SuperSonics trade draft rights to Scottie Pippen to Chicago Bulls for draft rights to Olden Polynice and future draft implications

June 27, 1983: Phoenix Suns trade Dennis Johnson to Boston Celtics for Rick Robey

February 14, 1995: Portland Trail Blazers trade Clyde Drexler and Tracy Murray to Houston Rockets for Otis Thorpe

June 27, 2001: Houston Rockets trade draft rights to Richard Jefferson, Jason Collins, and Brandon Armstrong to New Jersey Nets for draft rights to Eddie Griffi

etc etc etc....

History is riddled with lopsided trades... The only time you hear collusion is when you have insecure whiney little babies who just came upon the realization that their championship years are OVER!

[cobbler]

No big deal - I was just poking fun at the fact that your fellow Laker fan was insulting one of the admins in his zeal to back up a statement that had flaws in it to begin with.

And IMO, the article was reaching in implying that the Lakers were doing a bang-up job of rebuilding when most of Kupchak's moves were lateral ones at best, until the Gasol opportunity fell in his lap.

No prob. Actually, although I agree with you that most of Mitch's trades were lateral in nature, he has done pretty well drafting players in the middle rounds that have produced well for us. Didn't do so bad with the Cook and Evans for Ariza trade either. No doubt we lucked out on the Gasol trade, but the collusion accusations are absurd. Memphis wanted to dump salary and build using the Portland philosphy and they tool the largest expiring salary on the market along with some pretty good prospects. I wouldnt mind having Marc Gasol back!

[DrHouse]

The Lakers have never really needed draft picks to rebuild.

They just keep taking advantage of stupid ass GM's.

[anakha]

The Lakers have never really needed draft picks to rebuild.


Kinda hard to make that argument when Bynum's been at the core of the rebuilding plan until Memphis had a collective brainfart.

[DrHouse]

Kinda hard to make that argument when Bynum's been at the core of the rebuilding plan until Memphis had a collective brainfart.

Oh I didn't know Andrew Bynum was a franchise player on the Lakers right now.

Oh that's right, he's not. Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol are. Both of which were acquired via trades with dumbass GM's.

Shit, stop drinking the fucking tap water in your back water city. Fucking incestual inbred hicks keep breeding 'em dumber and dumber.

[baseline bum]

Oh I didn't know Andrew Bynum was a franchise player on the Lakers right now.

Oh that's right, he's not. Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol are. Both of which were acquired via trades with dumbass GM's.

Shit, stop drinking the fucking tap water in your back water city. Fucking incestual inbred hicks keep breeding 'em dumber and dumber.

LMAO. You fucking retards were pegging Bynum as the next Shaq all summer.

[DrHouse]

LMAO. You fucking retards were pegging Bynum as the next Shaq all summer.

No. You were.

We've said all along all Bynum has to do is get boards and block shots. I had hopes he could do just that but lately his fat ass seems more concerned with his midrange J.

[timvp]

What's hilarious is that Laker Fan can't even mount a unified attack.

[anakha]

Oh I didn't know Andrew Bynum was a franchise player on the Lakers right now.

Oh that's right, he's not. Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol are. Both of which were acquired via trades with dumbass GM's.

Shit, stop drinking the fucking tap water in your back water city. Fucking incestual inbred hicks keep breeding 'em dumber and dumber.

Where was I referring to Bynum being a franchise player? Or stating that he ever was?

Please re-read what I said. "At the core" =/= franchise player.

The fact that the Lakers were rejecting any and all trade offers that involved Bynum before point to their plans to keep him as part of the rebuilding effort.

Until the Gasol trade, the emphasis was on letting Bynum develop the potential the team saw he had and meshing it with Kobe's.

Reading comprehension. It's not that hard, really.

[DrHouse]

:lmao at how this thread degenerated so quickly

I'm out. I don't even know what the fuck we're arguing about anymore.

[baseline bum]

If Bynum's not that good, then trading Shaq accomplished nothing.

[cobbler]

Where was I referring to Bynum being a franchise player? Or stating that he ever was?

Please re-read what I said. "At the core" =/= franchise player.

The fact that the Lakers were rejecting any and all trade offers that involved Bynum before point to their plans to keep him as part of the rebuilding effort.

Until the Gasol trade, the emphasis was on letting Bynum develop the potential the team saw he had and meshing it with Kobe's.

Reading comprehension. It's not that hard, really.

I believe he still is the core. The lakers are actually a very young team. Bynum will be the center for a good 10 years. The addition of Pau last year due to Bynums injury just gives the team the luxury of being able to bring him along more slowly.

[anakha]

I believe he still is the core. The lakers are actually a very young team. Bynum will be the center for a good 10 years. The addition of Pau last year due to Bynums injury just gives the team the luxury of being able to bring him along more slowly.

I have no issues with those statements.

It's silly responses like the one the good doctor made above, implying that Bynum wasn't a mainstay of the whole rebuilding effort, that make me laugh.

No GM worth his salary hinges his team's rebuilding success on taking advantage of others' incompetence. Of course you should take advantage of those windfalls if they come, but neither should those situations mask those efforts the FO actually made by themselves.

Essentially, I think Kupchak got bailed out by the Gasol trade, much like Paxson got bailed out by the draft lottery and Derrick Rose in Chicago.

[Purple & Gold]

:lmao @ spurs fans saying collusion when they tanked a whole season to get Duncan. The Lakers gave them a huge expiring and 4 first rounders and spurs fans are still crying. It was a good trade for Memphis look at their future now. Marc is a very good player, Memphis fans are happy with Darrell Arthur, and they still have another first rounder to play with. Trading Gasol has also allowed Mayo and Gay to flourish. If he was still there their development would take even longer.

The Lakers rebuilt in 3 years after the Shaq trade. They are always relevant. spurs fans that cry about the Gasol trade are a joke. They will do anything before they admit that the greatness of the Laker Franchise. Even after how many countless times they've bounced them out of the playoffs.

[Purple & Gold]

Lakers had to trade Shaq or else we'd be stuck paying him $30 Million and Kobe would either be in a Clippers uniform. Not a coincidence the trade was made the day before free agents were allowed to sign. Mitch's hands were tied so there was no way he could have held out for Wade. He's done a great job. Anytime you have multiple second rounders sticking around the League shows that your a good GM. Throw in the Gasol and Ariza trade and he's done an excellent job.

[NBA Junkie]

shaq + kobe were unstoppable

Shaq + Kobe + Malone + Payton were! :lol

[anakha]

He's done a great job. Anytime you have multiple second rounders sticking around the League shows that your a good GM. Throw in the Gasol and Ariza trade and he's done an excellent job.

Exhibit A of how much one stroke of good fortune can color people's perceptions of a guy:


As for Mitch and Smush I have a dartboard with both of their pictures up on it. Everytime I think of Smush being our starting PG I break out the ol dartboard.

So a GM who does an excellent job banks on Smush Parker as the starting PG?

[ElNono]

it was a great take. Miami got a ring..where are they now? so if Shaq gave Lakers one more ring, and Kobe left the Lakers...you think we'll be able to rebuild around shaq and his "new" contract. Anyways...you'd be an idiot to chose Shaq over Kobe at 2005.

It wasn't a matter of Kobe OR Shaq. It was about paying Shaq what he wanted or not. Buss gambled that Shaq didn't have any more in the tank to win another one, and obviously failed miserably at that. The Lakers could have had another ring or two with Shaq and Kobe, and you could have kicked Shaq's fat ass right around this time.
Say what you will, but the current Lakers team still needs to prove they can go all the way.

[Fabbs]

Originally Posted by BlackSwordsMan View Post
shaq + kobe were unstoppable


Shaq + Kobe + Malone + Payton were! :lol
nicely done.
Also to blackswordsman, Shaq + Kobe + Bavetta + Stern were unstoppable.
FIFY.

[IronMexican]

Shaq + Kobe + Malone + Payton were! :lol

They knocked the Spurs out. And Payton clearly wasn't built for this team.

[TheMadHatter]

It wasn't a matter of Kobe OR Shaq. It was about paying Shaq what he wanted or not. Buss gambled that Shaq didn't have any more in the tank to win another one, and obviously failed miserably at that. The Lakers could have had another ring or two with Shaq and Kobe, and you could have kicked Shaq's fat ass right around this time.
Say what you will, but the current Lakers team still needs to prove they can go all the way.

Again more revisionist history.

If you don't know anything about the Laker's history other than some tabloid BSPN article you just read you should probably shut your mouth.

Kobe wanted no part of Shaquille O'neal. He would have signed with the Clipshow had Shaq stayed and Buss payed him out his extension. Things were that bad between the two.

[Lakers_55]

Well, let a long time Laker fan offer up a bit of history....

Back in 1970, there were three new teams coming to the NBA, Buffalo Braves, Cleveland Cavaliers, and the Portland Trailblazers. Every team in the league had to make 1 player available in the expansion draft. Chick Hearn conjectured that the Lakers might want to keep their new talent, and make Elgin Baylor available, or perhaps even Jerry West. They didn't, and the young guard we lost, Johnny Egan, never went anywhere after the expansion draft, but the idea to go for the future was there.

What trade value does Shaq have now? Little or none. People who think the Lakers would have won more titles with him are speculating, and I don't like the odds we would have faced. Even if the Lakers had, we would be horrible right now, with no future in sight.

Face it, for the latter end of the Shaq/Kobe era, it was all about those two guys. The league had adjusted to us. Sacramento came close in 2002, but not close enough. Spurs beat us fair and square in 2003. Malone and Payton got us to the finals in 2004, but Karl wouldn't be back for another try, even if we kept Shaq and Kobe.

Now, we are a multi-talented team, anyone can become the go-to guy. Anyone who says Kobe can't win without Shaq is in denial, and talking smack. Look at the Lakers history, we always rebuild. We just did it quicker than expected and became the best in the west again, and a lot of fans don't like that!

Kobe can and will wn without Shaq, the only question is when. I say soon.

[ElNono]

Again more revisionist history.

If you don't know anything about the Laker's history other than some tabloid BSPN article you just read you should probably shut your mouth.

Kobe wanted no part of Shaquille O'neal. He would have signed with the Clipshow had Shaq stayed and Buss payed him out his extension. Things were that bad between the two.

Kobe wants one thing one day and another thing the other. Trade demands anyone? Bottom line is that he wants to win, and he wants to do it on the biggest stage, and under the brightest spotlights. Or do you really think he was going to go to the Clippers? If Kobe accepted to play alongside Kwame Brown and Smush Parker, then you would think he would have found a way to play alongside Shaq for a couple more years, especially if it meant winning more rings.

[scanry]

Well, let a long time Laker fan offer up a bit of history....

Back in 1970, there were three new teams coming to the NBA, Buffalo Braves, Cleveland Cavaliers, and the Portland Trailblazers. Every team in the league had to make 1 player available in the expansion draft. Chick Hearn conjectured that the Lakers might want to keep their new talent, and make Elgin Baylor available, or perhaps even Jerry West. They didn't, and the young guard we lost, Johnny Egan, never went anywhere after the expansion draft, but the idea to go for the future was there.

What trade value does Shaq have now? Little or none. People who think the Lakers would have won more titles with him are speculating, and I don't like the odds we would have faced. Even if the Lakers had, we would be horrible right now, with no future in sight.

Face it, for the latter end of the Shaq/Kobe era, it was all about those two guys. The league had adjusted to us. Sacramento came close in 2002, but not close enough. Spurs beat us fair and square in 2003. Malone and Payton got us to the finals in 2004, but Karl wouldn't be back for another try, even if we kept Shaq and Kobe.

Now, we are a multi-talented team, anyone can become the go-to guy. Anyone who says Kobe can't win without Shaq is in denial, and talking smack. Look at the Lakers history, we always rebuild. We just did it quicker than expected and became the best in the west again, and a lot of fans don't like that!

Kobe can and will wn without Shaq, the only question is when. I say soon.


I agree and i don't think the Lakers would have had the depth to contend come playoffs time. They had already lost Horry, Malone, Payton, Fox & most likely Fisher too. Do people honestly think that Shaq & Kobe alone can get them a championship. Heck even their 3 peat wasn't all that easy. They had to get so many breaks from their role players in 2000 & 2002. And the latter one had some dubious calls going their way.

However i don't think they should've traded Shaq, or atleast waited for a more lucrative offer from the Heat. I think their best bet was to trade for Dirk. Kobe & Dirk, now that would've been a nice 1-2 punch. :wow:wow

[thispego]

What a crock of crap article.

The Gasol collusion and Derek Swisher for free were 95% of what propelled the .500 Kobees to make the playoffs and advance.

Now Bynum, props to Buss Jr. for that.

let no one ever forget. this is why the lakers are what they are today.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

They knocked the Spurs out. And Payton clearly wasn't built for this team.

:lmao At your video.

[IronMexican]

Heheh. Yeah, I started dying when I saw it also.

[NBA Junkie]

They knocked the Spurs out. And Payton clearly wasn't built for this team.

'Tis true!

I'm at peace with it, though it took awhile.

[Purple & Gold]

Exhibit A of how much one stroke of good fortune can color people's perceptions of a guy:

Exhibit A of spurs fan only hearing what they wanna hear and not knowing how to count. Ariza and Gasol are two trades idiot. And it's impressive when any GM has multiple second rounders that stay in the League.


So a GM who does an excellent job banks on Smush Parker as the starting PG?

That was 2 years ago. WTF does Smush have to do with today. Lakers still need a PG bad, but that doesn't take away that Mitch has been doing an excellent job. Rebuilding in 3 years is impressive no matter how you slice it. I can't think of any other team that rebuilt that quickly.

[YellowFever]

Win at any cost?

I don't think so. I'm with Popovich on this one. Winning a ring is great but be humble and don't rub it in your opponents. That's one of the reason why I admire Pop and what he did for San Antonio.

And that is why I loved trading Shaq. Quite honestly, I would have given him away for nothing at the time.

Am I the only one who thinks Shaq is a big joke?

Sure, we won three rings with him here.

(And no, Spurs fans, Shaq did not carry Kobe to those three rings. As I said time and time again here, The Pacers, Sixers and Nets were nothing but after-thoughts..the "real" championships were always the WCF..those classic Lakers/Spurs battles...the ones in which Kobe did more to beat the spurs than Shaq ever did..but I'm digressing)

But the constant whining and the constant lack of respect for your fellow NBA-ers really became old.
All the BS he said about the "Queens" and the "whiny" Spurs, quite frankly, pissed me off.

Also, the Lakers would NOT have won anymore rings with him here.
Hell, we couldn't win the last two years he was here and the Spurs were just hitting their strides.

Plus the fact that Fish was looking for a payday plus the fact that Shaq was looking for an unheard of 30 mil per year extension plus the fact the kobe needed a new contract plus the fact that Malone and Payton wasn't coming back just meant that we had to die a slow painful death as fgar as championship asperations were concerned.

Instead we suffered for 3 years and we're back to contending again instead of a slow, painful decline that sometimes lasts up to 5-7 years (i.e. Dallas, Sacramento..etc).

We knew trading Shaq would not have done our ring hunting any good. But it got us back on the stage much faster than it usually takes.