Best PF in the NBA right now [Archive]

endrity

01-19-2009, 03:36 PM

Hard to argue with his play right now.

But as with most of these basketball arguments, the true test and ultimately the best answer will both come in April, May, and June.

That is true.

But I can tell you right now that this Mavs team isn't going anywhere. It's just nice to see Dirk still give full effort. It's remarkable he is doing this in such a shitty team, after playing 2 SUMMER TOURNAMENTS, and averaging something like 38 minutes.

I tell you, he will we out of gas sometime, but it's still a pleasure to watch and root for this man.

sribb43

01-19-2009, 03:37 PM

Dirk + TP and Manu would equal 3 championships too.

Duncan + JET = NBA Finals appearance

Findog

01-19-2009, 03:37 PM

Pau for Dirk seems like an even trade.

Pau is a Robin. Dirk is somewhere between Batman and a Robin. Dirk > Pau.

Showtime24 LAKERS

01-19-2009, 03:38 PM

Dirk hands down.

endrity

01-19-2009, 03:39 PM

Dirk + TP and Manu would equal 3 championships too.

Duncan + JET = NBA Finals appearance

Duncan has been too good man, even without TP and Manu he would have some rings. Dirk is amazing, but Duncan is the best PF to ever play the game. If Dirk get a ring, he is clearly in top 5 discussion.

IronMexican

01-19-2009, 03:39 PM

Pau is a Robin. Dirk is somewhere between Batman and a Robin. Dirk > Pau.

Dirk is a Batman.

monosylab1k

01-19-2009, 03:39 PM

Did Tim Duncan retire? Unless that happened, Dirk is #2 at best.

Also, it's amazing how much better Philadelphia is playing without Elton Brand. Is that guy the biggest undercover cancer ever? He seems like a decent dude but other than one fluke year, his teams always suck ass.

sribb43

01-19-2009, 03:39 PM

Where are all those people that said Amare had surpassed Dirk?.....crickets

sonic21

01-19-2009, 03:40 PM

Dirk >>> KG

monosylab1k

01-19-2009, 03:40 PM

Where are all those people that said Amare had surpassed Dirk?.....crickets

Dirk > Amare
Dirk > KG

dirk4mvp

01-19-2009, 03:40 PM

Pau is a Robin. Dirk is somewhere between Batman and a Robin. Dirk > Pau.

Dirk is more like the black Power Ranger. Not quite as good as the red one, but much better than the blue one.

sribb43

01-19-2009, 03:42 PM

Dirk is Captain Planet, not quite a Batman or Superman but not a Robin

ElNono

01-19-2009, 03:43 PM

I'll definitely put Dirk over Amare... by a long margin

IronMexican

01-19-2009, 03:43 PM

Tommy>Jason>Zach>Billy.

Findog

01-19-2009, 03:43 PM

I'll definitely put Dirk over Amare... by a long margin

It's a huge insult to Dirk to mention Duhmare' alongside him.

dirk4mvp

01-19-2009, 03:44 PM

Tommy>Jason>Zach>Billy.

:wow

IronMexican

01-19-2009, 03:47 PM

Right now Dirk is Tommy, Duncan is Jason, Pau is Zach, and KG is Billy.

sribb43

01-19-2009, 03:47 PM

Right now Dirk is Tommy, Duncan is Jason, Pau is Zach, and KG is Billy.

:lol

IronMexican

01-19-2009, 03:48 PM

Scratch that: KG is Kimberly.

endrity

01-19-2009, 03:49 PM

Right now Dirk is Tommy, Duncan is Jason, Pau is Zach, and KG is Billy.

You have to put Bosh somewhere in there. Except a stretch in December he has played really well this year.

Probably below Gasol, Pau is still underrated by many.

IronMexican

01-19-2009, 03:50 PM

Not enough Power Rangers!

monosylab1k

01-19-2009, 03:50 PM

Dirk isn't quite a Steve Zissou, but he's better than a Klaus or Wolodarsky. He's an Esteban or Kingsley type.

stretch

01-19-2009, 03:52 PM

If Dirk get a ring, he is clearly in top 5 discussion.

I think he pretty much is. The only PF in his prime all-time I would take over him hand's down is Duncan. The only other guy I would think about is the Round Mound of Rebound. I'd take him over Malone, Garnett, and McHale all freaking day. Dirk has never had the luxury of playing alongside another legit star. The closest he had, was Josh Howard who was picked as an all-star alternate ONCE. I wonder how he would do playing alongside guys like Bird or Stockton, or Paul Pierce. I'd say when you consider all circumstances, the things that he has accomplished is quite amazing. He was the sole leader of a team that got just as far as Malone/Stockton did together, and better than anything Garnett ever did when he was actually the #1 guy. McHale was a good player, but lived off of a crapload of single teams because of guys like Bird and Parish on his team. Dirk hasn't really had the luxury that other PFs that won a ring, had, in either having another superstar, or multiple legit stars.

endrity

01-19-2009, 03:59 PM

I think he pretty much is. The only PF in his prime all-time I would take over him hand's down is Duncan. The only other guy I would think about is the Round Mound of Rebound. I'd take him over Malone, Garnett, and McHale all freaking day. Dirk has never had the luxury of playing alongside another legit star. The closest he had, was Josh Howard who was picked as an all-star alternate ONCE. I wonder how he would do playing alongside guys like Bird or Stockton, or Paul Pierce. I'd say when you consider all circumstances, the things that he has accomplished is quite amazing. He was the sole leader of a team that got just as far as Malone/Stockton did together, and better than anything Garnett ever did when he was actually the #1 guy. McHale was a good player, but lived off of a crapload of single teams because of guys like Bird and Parish on his team. Dirk hasn't really had the luxury that other PFs that won a ring, had, in either having another superstar, or multiple legit stars.

Pretty much, and as much as loved Barkley, he never got that ring, and once his athleticism started to erode he had a pretty quick fall. Because Dirk's game is based much more on abilities, if he remains healthy, Dirk should have a very soft decline.

You can argue though, that at his very peak, Barkley was a bit better than Dirk because of his amazing work on the boards while still scoring consistently in the high 20s, but that peak of his wasn't very prolonged.

Another guy that I have read about, but never saw was Dave DeBuschere (I hope I spelled his name right). One of the key players from the knicks in the 70s, and someone who McHale is often considered to have copied for some of his famous post moves.

Sportstudi

01-19-2009, 04:01 PM

Dirk > Amare
Dirk > KG

But still less votes for the All-Star Game. He's playing probably the best basketball of his career, but he still doesn't get credits by most of the fans (otherwise he wouldn't be 5th in the West).

Holmes_Fans

01-19-2009, 04:27 PM

But still less votes for the All-Star Game. He's playing probably the best basketball of his career, but he still doesn't get credits by most of the fans (otherwise he wouldn't be 5th in the West).

If Dirk was black he would get just as many votes as they do.

j.r. haider

01-19-2009, 04:28 PM

al jefferson.

sook

01-19-2009, 04:29 PM

Yao Ming

endrity

01-19-2009, 04:30 PM

al jefferson.

his game is as center-like as it can be, all around the basket!

Warlord23

01-19-2009, 04:51 PM

The best PF in the NBA just blocked a game-tying shot to preserve a 2-point win for the Spurs at Charlotte

DPG21920

01-19-2009, 04:53 PM

It is no question that Tim is still the best. LMFAO at the person who said Dirk + TP + Manu = championships.

BlackSwordsMan

01-19-2009, 04:54 PM

the red ranger made a gay porno

resistanze

01-19-2009, 05:01 PM

If Dirk was black he would get just as many votes as they do.

I'm pretty sure most voters for the All-Star games are white (sans China). Unless you're saying they're bias against white players which is silly.

It's just the common case of voters being dumb and voting undeserving players in, which has occurred ever since fan voting began.

sook

01-19-2009, 05:01 PM

Yao Ming bitches, he is PF...he has a post up game and a nice fadeaway midrange.

resistanze

01-19-2009, 05:01 PM

And Dirk is #2 right now, and a lock for the HOF regardless if he wins a ring.

scanry

01-19-2009, 05:10 PM

Dirk + TP and Manu would equal 3 championships too.

Duncan + JET = NBA Finals appearance

Who the fuck guards the paint? :lol

If the Spurs had Dirk instead of Duncan, every freaking point guard will pick & roll Dirk to death. BTW Dirk couldn't post up against the Golden State Warriors midgets. :lmao

As much as i love Dirk, he still isn't in Duncan's league.

The great ones play on both ends. :hat

Sportstudi

01-19-2009, 05:10 PM

Yao Ming

Yao is a PF? Didn't know that... :lmao

dirk4mvp

01-19-2009, 05:10 PM

The best PF in the NBA just blocked a game-tying shot to preserve a 2-point win for the Spurs at Charlotte

I'll take Dirk's shot against the team that beat the shit out of the Spurs not too long ago.

scanry

01-19-2009, 05:11 PM

And Dirk is #2 right now, and a lock for the HOF regardless if he wins a ring.

Winning the MVP already locked him up for the Hall.

scanry

01-19-2009, 05:12 PM

I'll take Dirk's shot against the team that beat the shit out of the Spurs not too long ago.

I'll take that too.

Indazone

01-19-2009, 06:45 PM

People are saying Dirk is the best PF in the NBA today on a Spurs forum and there hasn't been any smack talk from Spurs fans????? WTF!!???!!!

Indazone

01-19-2009, 06:46 PM

Yao is a PF? Didn't know that... :lmao

Well Sooks post pretty much says it all for him don'tcha think? LOL :lol

sonic21

01-19-2009, 06:47 PM

People are saying Dirk is the best PF in the NBA today on a Spurs forum and there hasn't been any smack talk from Spurs fans????? WTF!!???!!!

spurs fans know basketball.
so far this year Dirk > other PF

that will change when tim will play some defense

Ghazi

01-19-2009, 06:48 PM

Dirk's putting up better stats than Duncan and Duncan is no longer as dominant as he once was, but I think Duncan's interior defense and back to basket style which forces defenses to gravitate still makes him the premier PF in te laegue. Dirk is #2 though.

Also, I don't think Dirk + Manu/Parker necessarily equals a championship.

gaKNOW!blee

01-19-2009, 07:06 PM

There is no way you can take Dirk over Malone.

Malone is one of the leading scorers in NBA history.

Indazone

01-19-2009, 07:12 PM

Sorry but I'm taking Duncan over Dirk. 4 Championships to zero. Tim's defense and back to the basket style makes him much more valuable to the team than Dirk .

endrity

01-19-2009, 07:13 PM

There is no way you can take Dirk over Malone.

Malone is one of the leading scorers in NBA history.

Malone is a leading scorer because of longevity. But if people accuse Dirk of being "soft" or choking, than Malone is Dirk^2. In the big games he continually shot that 12-15 foot jumper which was nowhere as good as Dirk's. In terms of taking over games, Dirk > Malone. I am not sure about Barkley. As I said, in his peak Barkley was probably better than Dirk, but that peak of his didn't last long.

td4mvp21

01-19-2009, 07:16 PM

Duncan is still the best PF in the league. But Dirk is playing like it right now.

endrity

01-19-2009, 07:17 PM

Sorry but I'm taking Duncan over Dirk. 4 Championships to zero. Tim's defense and back to the basket style makes him much more valuable to the team than Dirk .

It's more the defense really.

People like the back to the basket/post players because they are usually good at scoring the "easy" points. In other terms, they are very efficient scores. But Dirk already is one of the more efficient scorers the league has ever seen. It's especially true if you consider true shooting average, which is calculated taking in consideration 3pt shots and FT shots.

But yes, the defense is what truly separates them. However what most people are saying, is that right now, Dirk is playing at an extremely high level, whereas Duncan isn't. That most likely will change in the playoffs.

Sportstudi

01-19-2009, 07:22 PM

There is no way you can take Dirk over Malone.

Malone is one of the leading scorers in NBA history.

We're talking about the best PF in the NBA right now, not in the past.

Currently, I would rank Dirk behind Duncan at #2, because of Duncan's interior defense. His defense makes him the best PF ever, giving him a small edge over Dirk (in the current rankings) and Malone (in the overall rankings). Malone was by far the best PF ever on the offensive end (sorry, but Duncan definitely can't touch him there), but IMO the difference between Duncan's and Malone's defense was larger than the difference on the offensive side (although I have to admit that Malone had a very good defense for a PF). The final edge is also contributed to Duncan's rings.

Barkley was very good as well and in his prime he was able to play at the same level, but his decline was IMO rather fast.

endrity

01-19-2009, 07:30 PM

We're talking about the best PF in the NBA right now, not in the past.

Currently, I would rank Dirk behind Duncan at #2, because of Duncan's interior defense. His defense makes him the best PF ever, giving him a small edge over Dirk (in the current rankings) and Malone (in the overall rankings). Malone was by far the best PF ever on the offensive end (sorry, but Duncan definitely can't touch him there), but IMO the difference between Duncan's and Malone's defense was larger than the difference on the offensive side (although I have to admit that Malone had a very good defense for a PF). The final edge is also contributed to Duncan's rings.

Barkley was very good as well and in his prime he was able to play at the same level, but his decline was IMO rather fast.

Certainly as a skill set Malone had a larger one on the offensive end compared to Duncan but not as much as you make it to be.

1. Duncan is much much better around the basket. His long arms and large hands allow him to be a deadly finisher even from very tough angles.

2. Malone was as big a softie in big games as there will ever be. Stockton always took the big shots for them, whereas Malone insisted on shooting that jumper of his which isn't as good as Dirk's (as I said before) or at times even Duncan. Malone was a beast on that pick and roll, where he could show of his athletic prowes, but that is also because he had a great PG. Neither Dirk nor Duncan have played with anyone of Stockton's caliber for their whole career. Nash is the closest but they were together for only 5 years and before Nash really hit his prime.

Brazil

01-19-2009, 07:31 PM

Wow ST showing some love for Dirk for a change !!
The best PF in the league is still Tim Duncan then Dirk no doubt. Duncan>Dirk>Amare>KG

DPG21920

01-19-2009, 07:35 PM

I think eveyone greatly respects Dirk for the most part. He has his flaws, but no one doubts that he is talented and that he competes.

But he is no Duncan...

BlackSwordsMan

01-19-2009, 07:57 PM

People are saying Dirk is the best PF in the NBA today on a Spurs forum and there hasn't been any smack talk from Spurs fans????? WTF!!???!!!

4 RINGS FAGGOT

Lars

01-19-2009, 08:07 PM

Dirk/Bosh/Duncan = Tier 1 power forwards who are all about equal
Amare/Garnett = Tier 1.5

Indazone

01-19-2009, 08:10 PM

and where does Al Jefferson fit into this ranking? I put Al Jefferson right up there.

DPG21920

01-19-2009, 08:12 PM

Dirk/Bosh/Duncan = Tier 1 power forwards who are all about equal
Amare/Garnett = Tier 1.5

Duncan, Dirk > Bosh.

ElNono

01-19-2009, 08:12 PM

Dirk/Bosh/Duncan = Tier 1 power forwards who are all about equal
Amare/Garnett = Tier 1.5

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/camerafail.jpg

Lars

01-19-2009, 08:17 PM

Put your Homerism aside. Bosh sucks lately, but his numbers early in the year were impressive.

endrity

01-19-2009, 08:23 PM

Bosh has picked it up again after a slow late December/early January. But he is below Dirk and Duncan, and probably Gasol as well. He is closer to Amare's class to me.

My order is:
Duncan, Dirk, Gasol, KG, Bosh, Amare!
Ofcourse it's open to debate, but I think Gasol is playing better than KG right now, and Bosh is better than Amare because he does give an effort on defense.

DPG21920

01-19-2009, 08:27 PM

True, Gasol gets left out with no mention? He has had a great year and is very skilled.

Xylus

01-19-2009, 08:33 PM

Last season, I would have said Amare > Dirk.

Right now, I'd say Louis Amundson > Amare.

Udokafan05

01-19-2009, 09:03 PM

Malone is a leading scorer because of longevity. But if people accuse Dirk of being "soft" or choking, than Malone is Dirk^2. In the big games he continually shot that 12-15 foot jumper which was nowhere as good as Dirk's. In terms of taking over games, Dirk > Malone. I am not sure about Barkley. As I said, in his peak Barkley was probably better than Dirk, but that peak of his didn't last long.

I dont like Malone, but he did have to deal with Jordan. If the refs had called the pushoff on Jordan against Russell, Malone might have a ring. Wade is good, but he is no Jordan, and he abused Dirk and the rest of the mavs in the finals.

Brickhouse

01-19-2009, 09:07 PM

I think Amare is very talented...an offensive beast. Unfortunately he suffers from JHo syndrome in having low basketball IQ, being a stat-whore, and having too much of a lackdaisical attitude. Though I never thought he was better than Dirk.

Armando

01-19-2009, 09:10 PM

Duncan
Garnett
Amare

Sexy Stud 28

01-19-2009, 09:11 PM

I would love to say Duncan but in all fairness i gotta go with gasol.

sribb43

01-19-2009, 09:13 PM

Bosh is not top tier...he is in the tier with Amare/Boozer/Jefferson

Brickhouse

01-19-2009, 09:15 PM

Duncan
Garnett
Amare

Amare is looking great with his gorilla game.

DAF86

01-19-2009, 09:16 PM

Who would you rather have in your team? Duncan or Nowitzki? I say Tim and I bet 99% of the GM of the league think like me.

Armando

01-19-2009, 09:16 PM

Amare is looking great with his gorilla game.

:lol This game not withstanding

Armando

01-19-2009, 09:17 PM

Who would you rather have in your team? Duncan or Nowitzki? I say Tim and I bet 99% of the GM of leagues think like me.

Tim that is a no brainer. No disrespect to Dirk but you would be out of your mind to pick him over Tim.

Brickhouse

01-19-2009, 09:18 PM

Who would you rather have in your team? Duncan or Nowitzki? I say Tim and I bet 99% of the GM of leagues think like me.

Yeah no shit. The point of the thread was "right now" which doesn't mean much other than to point out Dirk's stellar season so far.

DAF86

01-19-2009, 09:20 PM

Yeah no shit. The point of the thread was "right now" which doesn't mean much other than to point out Dirk's stellar season so far.

OK, who would you rather have in your team right now Tim or Dirk? I'd still say Tim

Brickhouse

01-19-2009, 09:22 PM

OK, who would you rather have in your team right now Tim or Dirk? I'd still say Tim

Obviously Duncan. He's still the better player despite Dirk playing out of his mind right now.

Rogue

01-19-2009, 09:34 PM

Dirk is still the best PF though his teammates are sucking, but I bet the mavs are gonna come to their feet and fight back manly for the title.

ManuTP9

01-19-2009, 09:40 PM

Tim

Hemotivo

01-19-2009, 10:08 PM

Luis Scola

KidCongo

01-19-2009, 10:21 PM

LeBron James

nah Dirk has been playing great ball, Duncan as always.

NBA Dynasty

01-19-2009, 10:28 PM

Im willing to put my money on Rasheed Wallace

ClingingMars

01-19-2009, 11:19 PM

Did Tim Duncan retire? Unless that happened, Dirk is #2 at best.

peskypesky

01-19-2009, 11:26 PM

A basketball court has two ends.

So...

Duncan
Bosh
Dirk
KG
Gasol
Boozer
David West

portpower_11

01-19-2009, 11:26 PM

Duncan
Garnett
Amare

Amare?? he is not even in the top five

1. TD, 2. Dirk, 3. KG, 4. Gasol, 5. Bosh

Armando

01-19-2009, 11:34 PM

A basketball court has two ends.

So...

Duncan
Bosh
Dirk
KG
Gasol
Boozer
David West

Ok when was the last time Dirk shutdown an opposing forward? Or Bosh? Amare raped Bosh on Sunday. And Boozer? Please

m33p0

01-19-2009, 11:43 PM

the great white stiff has been carrying his team on his back. gotta give him his props. :clap

mogrovejo

01-19-2009, 11:55 PM

For whatever reason, Duncan's defence has been atrocious this season so far (it's ridiculous how Spurs fans don't notice that - sometimes Bonner has outplayed Duncan on the defensive side), so Garnett and Dirk on a tie.

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 12:19 AM

I like how some random ass Sun fan come in here and talk shit. Amare is a sack of shit now that Nash doesn't spoon feed him everything like he used to. Pau Gasol is much much more talented and skilled than Amare. Much less guys like Dirk and Duncan. Every GM in the league would take any 3 of those guys over Duh'mare unless he likes dunks or something.

Findog

01-20-2009, 12:22 AM

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 12:31 AM

As usual, great take ClingingDingleberries :td

ClingingMars

01-20-2009, 12:34 AM

As usual, great take ClingingDingleberries :td

...

-Mars

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 12:35 AM

...

-Mars

awesome.

Findog

01-20-2009, 12:36 AM

As usual, great take ClingingDingleberries :td

Does he ever make his own posts, or does he just do that gay quoting thing exclusively?

Findog

01-20-2009, 12:36 AM

As usual, great take ClingingDingleberries :td

ClingingMars

01-20-2009, 12:37 AM

awesome.

:wakeup w/e. duncan is #1, that's all that matters ;)

also FOUR RINGS BITCH

-Mars

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 12:38 AM

Does he ever make his own posts, or does he just do that gay quoting thing exclusively?

-Findawg

ClingingMars

01-20-2009, 12:39 AM

I'm a cunt who fucks with people for no reason

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 12:42 AM

Actually we a have a pretty good reason.

Findog

01-20-2009, 12:43 AM

:wakeup w/e. duncan is #1, that's all that matters ;)

also FOUR RINGS BITCH

-Mars

Irony is dead

ClingingMars

01-20-2009, 12:44 AM

Actually we a have a pretty good reason.

interesting. Care to share?

-Mars

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 12:45 AM

interesting. Care to share?

-Mars

That should've been reasons.

ClingingMars

01-20-2009, 12:45 AM

Irony is dead

come on we've been through this before. we both know that the Spurs are better than the Mavs and you supposedly have a better life than me. :toast

-Mars

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 12:47 AM

interesting. Care to share?

-Mars

no

ClingingMars

01-20-2009, 12:48 AM

no

you already replied to that.

-Mars

IronMexican

01-20-2009, 12:49 AM

Does he ever make his own posts, or does he just do that gay quoting thing exclusively?

-Mexican

Findog

01-20-2009, 12:55 AM

come on we've been through this before. we both know that the Spurs are better than the Mavs and you supposedly have a better life than me. :toast

-Mars

FOUR RINGS, FAGGOT!!!!

Findog

01-20-2009, 12:56 AM

- Findog

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 12:57 AM

FOUR RINGS, FAGGOT!!!!

-dirk

IronMexican

01-20-2009, 12:57 AM

- Mexican

ClingingMars

01-20-2009, 12:59 AM

- Findog

http://www.adrinael.net/wrong10.jpg

it has to be at the BOTTOM of your post, like so.

-Mars

IronMexican

01-20-2009, 01:01 AM

http://www.adrinael.net/wrong10.jpg

it has to be at the BOTTOM of your post, like so.

-Mars

That was his post. Kind ot like you writing nothing worth reading, but you quote shat someone said then sign iy

-Mexican

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 01:03 AM

That was his post. Kind ot like you writing nothing worth reading, but you quote shat someone said then sign iy

-Mexican

If ClingingDingleberries makes a post, but no one thinks it's good enough to read, does it really count as a post?

-dirk

dbreiden83080

01-20-2009, 01:05 AM

Dirk + TP and Manu would equal 3 championships too.

Duncan + JET = NBA Finals appearance

Dirk can't do half of what Duncan did in his prime especially, and Duncan would always get more out of his teams because he does more. He isn't on the same planet as Tim on defense, (Duncan is one of the best defensive big men ever) can't rebound like Tim, can't play the post or command the double like Tim, isn't the leader or as Mentally tough as Tim. Duncan is still better than Dirk is today. Watch 2003 Tim Duncan and it is like comparing Jordan to Reggie Miller..

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 01:06 AM

Dirk can't do half of what Duncan did in his prime especially, and Duncan would always get more out of his teams because he does more. He isn't on the same planet as Tim on defense, (Duncan is one of the best defensive big men ever) can't rebound like Tim, can't play the post or command the double like Tim, isn't the leader or as Mentally tough as Tim. Duncan is still better than Dirk is today. Watch 2003 Tim Duncan and it is like comparing Jordan to Reggie Miller..

How does Duncan's dick taste?

-dirk

dbreiden83080

01-20-2009, 01:12 AM

How does Duncan's dick taste?

-dirk

Taste just fine since you can't refute what i said.

And come up with something new asshole.. Anytime someone goes off about TD and his legacy you say something like "Get off his dick" You even bitch about it in the game threads.. If your tired of Spurs fans praising him, find a new forum..

ElNono

01-20-2009, 01:34 AM

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 01:37 AM

Taste just fine since you can't refute what i said.

And come up with something new asshole.. Anytime someone goes off about TD and his legacy you say something like "Get off his dick" You even bitch about it in the game threads.. If your tired of Spurs fans praising him, find a new forum..

Who are you to tell anyone they should find a new forum?

Defensive Spurfans are close but not quite as homer as defensive laker fans.

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 01:38 AM

Tim Duncan is undeniably the best PF right now. Also, probably the best PF ever to play the game up to this point in time. Now, that's hardly a knock on Dirk, which I feel that history-wise, is probably going to be relegated to be ranked below Malone and Barkley, perhaps unjustly so. Unless, ofcourse, he manages to win it all...

There's a difference between being the best and playing like the best. Dirk has been playing at a higher level than Duncan recently, which is the point of this thread, but some people took it the wrong way.

ElNono

01-20-2009, 01:50 AM

There's a difference between being the best and playing like the best. Dirk has been playing at a higher level than Duncan recently, which is the point of this thread, but some people took it the wrong way.

I don't think Dirk has. I mean, maybe a game or two where Duncan was subpar, like the Philly game. But overall, no way. Duncan has been basically our entire defensive anchor these days, even more now that Bruce has been sitting a while. The day Dirk is 50% the defender Duncan is, he will be an incredible player. Some people think scoring more points = better player and that's certainly not true at all.

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 01:55 AM

I don't think Dirk has.

Myself, as well as most others in the thread do.

I mean, maybe a game or two where Duncan was subpar, like the Philly game. But overall, no way. Duncan has been basically our entire defensive anchor these days, even more now that Bruce has been sitting a while. The day Dirk is 50% the defender Duncan is, he will be an incredible player. Some people think scoring more points = better player and that's certainly not true at all.

Dirk has been basically our entire team these days, even more that Howard has been sucking a while.

As good a defender as Duncan is or not, Dirk is an incredible player.

dbreiden83080

01-20-2009, 02:05 AM

Who are you to tell anyone they should find a new forum?

Who are you to whine and cry about people praising Tim Duncan on Spurstalk?? You do it all the time.. Head on over to Yankees forums for me and tell them to get off Jeter's dick while your at it..

TDfan2007

01-20-2009, 02:41 AM

Myself, as well as most others in the thread do.

Dirk has been basically our entire team these days, even more that Howard has been sucking a while.

As good a defender as Duncan is or not, Dirk is an incredible player.

I'm not sure you understand the kind of numbers Tim would put up if he was on the Mavs. He'd be averaging 25 and 12 easy. Dirk's been better than Tim offensively this season because he's had to be. They're both about equal in offensive efficiency, but Dirk has way for FGA's a game. Oh and Tim's still got him on D even with Tim's lackluster D this season.

TDfan2007

01-20-2009, 02:43 AM

Oh and to answer the question...

1) Tim
2) Dirk
3) Bosh
4) Pau/KG
5) Amare

j-money24

01-20-2009, 02:44 AM

duncan is past his prime, i dont even think he's the best player on his team anymore.

mystargtr34

01-20-2009, 05:15 AM

People should stop putting Bosh above KG. Stats only tell half of the story. You swap KG or even Pau Gasol with Bosh on that Raptors team, and they both likely go to 22-10-4. You put Bosh on a stacked team like Boston or LA, he doesnt average over 20.

Garnett is still a class above Bosh, and i wouldnt argue with Gasol being ranked higher either.

1. Duncan
2. Dirk
3. KG
4. Gasol
5. Bosh
6. Amare

Dirk and KG are pretty close IMO, but ive always leaned toward Dirk.

DrHouse

01-20-2009, 05:23 AM

Duncan separates himself from Dirk at the defensive end. I honestly wouldn't even rate Dirk above KG because of defense.

Dirk IMHO is the 3rd best PF in the league right now. He'd make the perfect 2nd option on just about any championship team.

endrity

01-20-2009, 07:17 AM

Right now Dirk is playing way better than KG!

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 09:24 AM

Right now Dirk is playing way better than KG!

Intensity! Chest Pound!

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 09:24 AM

I'm not sure you understand the kind of numbers Tim would put up if he was on the Mavs. He'd be averaging 25 and 12 easy. Dirk's been better than Tim offensively this season because he's had to be. They're both about equal in offensive efficiency, but Dirk has way for FGA's a game. Oh and Tim's still got him on D even with Tim's lackluster D this season.

You know that for sure don't you?

DaDakota

01-20-2009, 09:33 AM

Tim Duncan or Luis Scola, hard to decide.

;)

DD

mathbzh

01-20-2009, 09:34 AM

Dirk is great but Duncan is still the best.

Statistically it's a draw (points for dirk, the other stats for Duncan) but intangibles speak for Duncan.

tlongII

01-20-2009, 09:36 AM

LaMarcus Aldridge

mogrovejo

01-20-2009, 10:12 AM

Right now Dirk is playing way better than KG!

Offensively? Sure, KG is somewhat coasting. On the defensive side? It's not even close.

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 10:14 AM

Offensively? Sure, KG is somewhat coasting. On the defensive side? It's not even close.

When it comes to picking on guys a foot shorter than him, KG wins that one too.

stretch

01-20-2009, 10:18 AM

Offensively? Sure, KG is somewhat coasting. On the defensive side? It's not even close.

KG has never been on the same level as Dirk on offense, or leadership. His defense might be better, but he is a terrible leader, and 10X the choker Dirk could ever be considered. Give me leadership over chest pounding and a couple blocked shots all day. And I'm not saying Dirk is some amazing leader or anything, but he sure has done a lot better than Garnett has ever done, and makes his teammates better.

xtremesteven33

01-20-2009, 10:38 AM

1. Duncan
2. Dirk
3. KG
4. Gasol
5. Bosh
6. Amare

good list :tu

mogrovejo

01-20-2009, 10:49 AM

KG has never been on the same level as Dirk on offense, or leadership. His defense might be better, but he is a terrible leader, and 10X the choker Dirk could ever be considered. Give me leadership over chest pounding and a couple blocked shots all day. And I'm not saying Dirk is some amazing leader or anything, but he sure has done a lot better than Garnett has ever done, and makes his teammates better.

You're wrong. I have no idea what leadership has to do with chest pounding. Garnett is a great leader because he keeps everybody working hard, especially on defence, and he's an unselfish player. I'm not saying he's a better or worse leader than Dirk, I'm not into that kind of childish conversations. And if there's a player who has make his teammates better, it has been Garnett. And he certainly lead the team to the championship last season.

And who cares about blocked shots? Garnett is the better defensive big in the NBA but not because of blocking shots. Dirk "might be better"? I really like Dirk, but Garnett plays the best pick'n'roll defence in the history of the game. It's not close.

mogrovejo

01-20-2009, 10:51 AM

When it comes to picking on guys a foot shorter than him, KG wins that one too.

WHat's picking on? What about David West, Brad Miller and Andrew Bogut, are they a foot shorter than him also?

DUNCANownsKOBE2

01-20-2009, 11:07 AM

Where are all those people that said Amare had surpassed Dirk?.....crickets

Did anyone ever say Amare surpassed Dirk (whoever did has mental problems)?

Right now Dirk is the best PF in the league, overall though Duncan is better. If Dallas merely makes the playoffs he's an MVP candidate.

DUNCANownsKOBE2

01-20-2009, 11:10 AM

1. Duncan
2. Dirk
3. KG
4. Gasol
5. Bosh
6. David West/Rasheed Wallace/Paul Millsap

fixed.

Sec24Row7

01-20-2009, 11:35 AM

Rasheed Wallace is overlooked on all of these. If he had a different mentality, he would probably Rival Duncan as best PF of all time.

Dex

01-20-2009, 11:36 AM

The Green Ranger was cooler than the White Ranger.

ElNono

01-20-2009, 12:34 PM

Myself, as well as most others in the thread do.

Great. Everybody is entitled to an opinion.

Dirk has been basically our entire team these days, even more that Howard has been sucking a while. As good a defender as Duncan is or not, Dirk is an incredible player.

Offensively, sure. But defensively Dampier is taking care of the other team's big, and grabbing rebounds and manning the paint as best as he can. That takes a toll and I sincerely think Dirk can't really do it. If Dirk had to do that too, I doubt he would look as good as he does.

lefty

01-20-2009, 12:40 PM

1.Tim
2.Othee
3. Duncan
4. Tie : Dirk, Booze, KG, Scalabrine

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 01:20 PM

Great. Everybody is entitled to an opinion.

Offensively, sure. But defensively Dampier is taking care of the other team's big, and grabbing rebounds and manning the paint as best as he can. That takes a toll and I sincerely think Dirk can't really do it. If Dirk had to do that too, I doubt he would look as good as he does.

That's because Damp is a premier interior defender. Dirk isn't. Does Duncan take long jumpshots for the Spurs? No, because that's his weakness. He has them like every other player ever.

ElNono

01-20-2009, 01:26 PM

That's because Damp is a premier interior defender. Dirk isn't. Does Duncan take long jumpshots for the Spurs? No, because that's his weakness. He has them like every other player ever.

Actually, he does, and he hits a pretty good amount (not necessarily as high as Dirk, however). That said, Duncan prefers to post for obvious reasons (commanding a double-team, and-1 plays, etc).
I'll say TD's most glaring weakness is his free throw shooting. He's been very inconsistent on that aspect.

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 01:36 PM

Actually, he does, and he hits a pretty good amount (not necessarily as high as Dirk, however). That said, Duncan prefers to post for obvious reasons (commanding a double-team, and-1 plays, etc).
I'll say TD's most glaring weakness is his free throw shooting. He's been very inconsistent on that aspect.

If I had Duncan and Dirk on my team, I know which one I'd want taking 15ft.+ jumpers and which one I'd want in the pain.

ElNono

01-20-2009, 01:47 PM

If I had Duncan and Dirk on my team, I know which one I'd want taking 15ft.+ jumpers and which one I'd want in the pain.

If I had to pick between Duncan and Dirk on my team I know which one I would have... and it's Duncan hands down, no questions asked.

mavs>spurs2

01-20-2009, 01:49 PM

hi

-Mavs

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 01:56 PM

If I had to pick between Duncan and Dirk on my team I know which one I would have... and it's Duncan hands down, no questions asked.

good for you.

Dirk is playing at a higher level right now than any other pf.

Brickhouse

01-20-2009, 02:19 PM

mavs>spurs2

01-20-2009, 02:25 PM

TDfan2007

01-20-2009, 05:24 PM

faawk you dim tuncan is teh best!

:lol

Dirk is playing better offensive ball than Tim right now. Nobody with a brain can/should argue that.

portpower_11

01-20-2009, 05:57 PM

Great. Everybody is entitled to an opinion.

Offensively, sure. But defensively Dampier is taking care of the other team's big, and grabbing rebounds and manning the paint as best as he can. That takes a toll and I sincerely think Dirk can't really do it. If Dirk had to do that too, I doubt he would look as good as he does.

Do you really mean Dampier???

He can only give you oe good game out of 5 or 6. no one say Dirk is better or close to KG, TD defensively. But he did try his best to help Mavs offensively and defensively. I am sure lots of stars would have give up this team, but Dirk did carry mavs on his back.

timvp

01-20-2009, 06:02 PM

Right this second?

I'd say Dirk.

ElNono

01-20-2009, 06:04 PM

Dirk is playing at a higher level right now than any other pf.

I disagree. But whatever floats your boat. :toast

ElNono

01-20-2009, 06:06 PM

:lol

Dirk is playing better offensive ball than Tim right now. Nobody with a brain can/should argue that.

He might actually play better offensive ball overall too. But the game is played on both ends of the floor, right now or at any time. And when you consider both ends of the floor, I think TD tops any PF, right now.

endrity

01-20-2009, 06:08 PM

Right this second?

I'd say Dirk.

I think this is what this thread really meant. Nobody can argue with Tim's overall career.

ElNono

01-20-2009, 06:08 PM

Why are so many people getting their panties in a twist over who;s playing better "right now"

Let's just acknowledge that

1. Duncan is better than Dirk. No one is saying he isn;t so calm down Spurfan.
2. Dirk is playing at a high level right now, carrying a shitty team on his back

Now let's all hold hands and be friends again.

I'm actually not worked up about this at all. And I do think Dirk is playing at a high level. I don't think he's playing at a higher level than what TD is playing right now, but I think he's definitely playing at a high level.

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 06:14 PM

I'm actually not worked up about this at all. And I do think Dirk is playing at a high level. I don't think he's playing at a higher level than what TD is playing right now, but I think he's definitely playing at a high level.

How many times do you have to say that till you think you get your point across?

ElNono

01-20-2009, 06:16 PM

How many times do you have to say that till you think you get your point across?

As many times as people reply with a different point from the one I'm making.
Now, why do you care how many times I say it?

Findog

01-20-2009, 06:17 PM

He might actually play better offensive ball overall too. But the game is played on both ends of the floor, right now or at any time. And when you consider both ends of the floor, I think TD tops any PF, right now.

He does, but Dirk is not a terrible defender by any means. He will never be All-NBA Defense or whatever, but he does a good job on any non-elite PF. The scouting report needs to be updated.

ElNono

01-20-2009, 06:19 PM

He does, but Dirk is not a terrible defender by any means. He will never be All-NBA Defense or whatever, but he does a good job on any non-elite PF. The scouting report needs to be updated.

I agree, I think he's about average.

dirk4mvp

01-20-2009, 06:19 PM

As many times as people reply with a different point from the one I'm making.
Now, why do you care how many times I say it?

I could care less, but you sure get hot under the collar if someone has a different opinion than you do.

Dirk this season > Duncan this season

sonic21

01-20-2009, 06:21 PM

He might actually play better offensive ball overall too. But the game is played on both ends of the floor, right now or at any time. And when you consider both ends of the floor, I think TD tops any PF, right now.

do you watch spurs games?
duncan D has been really bad since manu and tony came back (except the bobcats game)

ElNono

01-20-2009, 06:23 PM

I could care less, but you sure get hot under the collar if someone has a different opinion than you do.
I already said I disagreed with the opposite opinion, and I also said everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. I don't see how that is getting 'hot under the collar'.

Dirk this season > Duncan this season

I disagree. But whatever floats your boat. :toast

ElNono

01-20-2009, 06:27 PM

do you watch spurs games?
duncan D has been really bad since manu and tony came back (except the bobcats game)

He's been up and down. There has been at least two games I remember where he played really bad defense. Then he played incredible defense on others (Early in the season, Suns against Shaq on xmas day, Bulls, Bobcats).
I actually think even when he doesn't have a Duncan-type outing, he's still above average. Consider that he's basically the only decent defender we have in the paint right now, and he normally guards the best PF/C on the other team, and still has the stamina to put up a double/double.

mystargtr34

01-20-2009, 06:48 PM

So far this season, i would say Dirk has been better.

J_Paco

01-21-2009, 01:30 AM

Rapper

01-21-2009, 01:46 AM

Dirk's fans, shame on you

a player who ever and never won a ring can be called the best PF in the NBA?

what a shame!

compared Dirk with Tim,this is definitely the biggest insult to Timmy

stretch

01-21-2009, 09:41 AM

How can Dirk be the best PF right now or this season, when overall Duncan is outperforming him in every category except PPG? :wtf:wtf:wtf

This is similar to the claim Maverick fans made three seasons ago when they eliminated S.A. from the playoffs. Winning a playoff series or putting up more points won't equal up to Timmy's superior all-around game. Plus, Timmy puts up better statistics while playing 2 less minutes each night. :hat:hat:hat

Duncan also has constantly had far superior personel to play alongside with. While Duncan does get double teamed, when he passes out, the defense is forced to respect whomever he passes to.

The only guy that anyone has ever really had any respect over the past 4 or 5 years for on Dallas is Terry. He has been the only guy that has even somewhat been able to consistently take pressure off Dirk, and even he isn't always the most consistent player around.

Dirk has for several years now, had to deal with far more double teams than Duncan ever has, and most of that is due to his extremely inconsistent teammates. All you have to do is look at the GS series. No one was able to hit a shot, thus they were able to constantly have a double or a triple team on Dirk, so basically the only kind of shot Dirk could get off was a long jumper, and when you put athetes like GS had on someone shooting the ball, it makes it that much harder to get a good shot off.

Some people will say that Dirk having a post game would have made a difference, but it really wouldn't have made much difference at all, because they would have still been collapsing on him, making it nearly impossible to get a good shot off, and fact is, his teammates were getting a shitload of open shots in that series, and were not making anything. Passing to a wide open teammate whether you are in the high post or low post, makes no difference if they aren't hitting the shot.

Fact is, there is no one in the NBA, aside from Kobe and Lebron (who also happen to be the best two players in the NBA) that has done more with crappier teammates than Dirk. And for people to bash him the way they do for not winning it all, is ridiculous because there has NEVER been a superstar that didn't win a ring without another legit star, and Dirk damn near did it, if it weren't for Wade having the greatest statistical finals series in NBA history, and in the eyes of many, a very controversially officiated series.

Dirk really does not get enough credit from people, because they don't see the whole picture, or know the whole story.

mathbzh

01-21-2009, 11:34 AM

DUNCANownsKOBE2

01-21-2009, 11:47 AM

good for you.

Dirk is playing at a higher level right now than any other pf.

You obviously didn't watch Amare's performance against Boston.

dirk4mvp

01-21-2009, 12:14 PM

I am a big Dirk fan. I am very impressed with what he does for the German team (I remember the 2005 Eurobasket... he was unbelievable...

But when you say he never played with a legit star... come on... In 2004 he was playing with Nash, Finley, Jamison, Howard

Finley was well on his decline at that time. Howard wouldn't play at a high level 2 years from then. And Nash and Jamison, as good as they are, are not championship caliber players.

stretch

01-21-2009, 12:31 PM

I am a big Dirk fan. I am very impressed with what he does for the German team (I remember the 2005 Eurobasket... he was unbelievable...

But when you say he never played with a legit star... come on... In 2004 he was playing with Nash, Finley, Jamison, Howard

First off... Howard was a rookie, Jamison wasn't quite a star, Finley had been declining for several years already, and Nash didn't really become a star until he went to Phoenix. Yeah, he made a couple all-star games, but its not like he was playing at a level that other #2 options on title winning teams were, like Kareem, Parish, Pippen, Kobe, Robinson, Ginobili, KG, etc... he was nice, but no where near those levels. Also, don't forget that team was a complete mess with Walker there ruining everything. Balance is important when making a team, and they were extremely unbalanced.

Second, it wasn't yet Dirk's team. He was still a young, developing player at the time. The reigns weren't handed entirely to him until Nash left. The same way the Lakers weren't Kobe's team until Shaq left. Ever since it has been unquestionably Dirk's team, he has not really had any real stars to play with. The closest are Howard and Terry, but neither of them are true stars in this league.

Findog

01-21-2009, 12:33 PM

Second, it wasn't yet Dirk's team. He was still a young, developing player at the time.

Dirk has been the Mavs' best player since early in the 01-02 season, the first at the AAC. If you want to say the 04-05 team wasn't nearly as good on the court than on paper, that's fine, but it was easily "Dirk's team" by that point.

DUNCANownsKOBE2

01-21-2009, 12:36 PM

Second, it wasn't yet Dirk's team. He was still a young, developing player at the time. The reigns weren't handed entirely to him until Nash left. The same way the Lakers weren't Kobe's team until Shaq left. Ever since it has been unquestionably Dirk's team, he has not really had any real stars to play with. The closest are Howard and Terry, but neither of them are true stars in this league.

I'd take Dirk's 2007 supporting cast over Duncan's 2003 supporting cast.

stretch

01-21-2009, 01:00 PM

Dirk has been the Mavs' best player since early in the 01-02 season, the first at the AAC. If you want to say the 04-05 team wasn't nearly as good on the court than on paper, that's fine, but it was easily "Dirk's team" by that point.

Of course Dirk was the best player, but it didn't make it his team. He was not yet the unquestioned leader, as many people felt Finley and Nash were equal leaders of that team. And in all honesty, Finley and Nash were more assertive in leading the team than Dirk was at the time.

stretch

01-21-2009, 01:12 PM

I'd take Dirk's 2007 supporting cast over Duncan's 2003 supporting cast.

Harris, Terry, Howard, Damp, Diop, Stack, Buckner, George, Croshere
Coach: Avery

Robinson, Parker, Ginobili, Jackson, Claxton, Bowen, Rose, Kerr
Coach: Popovich

Give me 03 Spurs, all day. Spurs were a much more balanced team, and much more well coached.

Les Grossman

01-21-2009, 01:34 PM

Dirk may be playing at the highest level, but Duncan is still #1.

Sportstudi

01-21-2009, 01:37 PM

Duncan also has constantly had far superior personel to play alongside with. While Duncan does get double teamed, when he passes out, the defense is forced to respect whomever he passes to.

The only guy that anyone has ever really had any respect over the past 4 or 5 years for on Dallas is Terry. He has been the only guy that has even somewhat been able to consistently take pressure off Dirk, and even he isn't always the most consistent player around.

Dirk has for several years now, had to deal with far more double teams than Duncan ever has, and most of that is due to his extremely inconsistent teammates. All you have to do is look at the GS series. No one was able to hit a shot, thus they were able to constantly have a double or a triple team on Dirk, so basically the only kind of shot Dirk could get off was a long jumper, and when you put athetes like GS had on someone shooting the ball, it makes it that much harder to get a good shot off.

Some people will say that Dirk having a post game would have made a difference, but it really wouldn't have made much difference at all, because they would have still been collapsing on him, making it nearly impossible to get a good shot off, and fact is, his teammates were getting a shitload of open shots in that series, and were not making anything. Passing to a wide open teammate whether you are in the high post or low post, makes no difference if they aren't hitting the shot.

Fact is, there is no one in the NBA, aside from Kobe and Lebron (who also happen to be the best two players in the NBA) that has done more with crappier teammates than Dirk. And for people to bash him the way they do for not winning it all, is ridiculous because there has NEVER been a superstar that didn't win a ring without another legit star, and Dirk damn near did it, if it weren't for Wade having the greatest statistical finals series in NBA history, and in the eyes of many, a very controversially officiated series.

Dirk really does not get enough credit from people, because they don't see the whole picture, or know the whole story.

I couldn't have written it better. Totally agreed :toast

Sportstudi

01-21-2009, 01:38 PM

Dirk may be playing at the highest level, but Duncan is still #1.

Nobody will doubt that in terms of the whole career. TD is #1 all time, I agree. But I think that Dirk is currently on the same level.

Amuseddaysleeper

01-21-2009, 01:54 PM

dirk4mvp

01-21-2009, 01:56 PM

The difference between Dirk and Duncan is that Duncan affects both sides of the ball. While Dirk's rebounding has certainately improved over the past few seasons, Duncan is still #1 in the PF department because he can protect the paint as well as be a force on the offensive end.

If the Mavs had TD they would be a top 4 seed in the West.

Not this year they wouldn't. The Mav's shooters have been terrible this year, outside of Dirk and JET. Duncan would get clamped down on down low with no outside threat.

z0sa

01-21-2009, 02:15 PM

All I see are Mavsfans giving excuses for like 6 teammates and why they weren't good enough to help Dirk to a championship ... then turning around and saying 03 Parker and Manu were legitimate second options, or even Robinson :lol

If you want to win, learn how to hold your fucking team accountable...

Balance often has more to do with team chemistry than anything ... the Mavs should know well, since the 06 Heat are the reason they don't have a ring ... that team came together at the right time despite a bunch of pathetic losers/unprovens on the same team, barring Shaq ...

Ghazi

01-21-2009, 02:21 PM

06 Heat won cause of biased officiating and a bunch of fluky plays.

I won't hold it against Dirk that he doesn't have a ring considering the circumstances surrounding those Finals.

z0sa

01-21-2009, 02:23 PM

Not this year they wouldn't. The Mav's shooters have been terrible this year, outside of Dirk and JET. Duncan would get clamped down on down low with no outside threat.

Duncan commands double teams from the post, IE far away from the 3point line, and is not an outside shooter himself, so your comparison is completely irrelevant. Dirk is another big time outside shooter, maybe the best considering his size and lack of defenders who can guard him, who does not command double teams far from the three point line ... in fact, guarding him 1on1 is probably the best way to beat the Mavericks, even if he goes off. Which is why a bunch of 3pt shooters on the Mavericks is foolish - they need slashers to play off of a marquee shooter like Dirk ...

06 Heat won cause of biased officiating and a bunch of fluky plays.

I won't hold it against Dirk that he doesn't have a ring considering the circumstances surrounding those Finals.

Oh please ... officiating influences that series, but the Mavs were up 2-0 ... no matter of officiating would have cost a true champion that series.

jack sommerset

01-21-2009, 02:36 PM

Harris, Terry, Howard, Damp, Diop, Stack, Buckner, George, Croshere
Coach: Avery

Robinson, Parker, Ginobili, Jackson, Claxton, Bowen, Rose, Kerr
Coach: Popovich

Give me 03 Spurs, all day. Spurs were a much more balanced team, and much more well coached.

No way the Spews would have won in 2003 if Dirk did not go down in that playoff series vs the Spews. Mavs were ready to take them down that year.

timvp

01-21-2009, 02:36 PM

First of all, I think it's very possible that Dirk has been better than Duncan so far this season. Dirk is scoring better and outside of a few game stretch when TP and Manu were both out, Duncan hasn't been playing much defense. So even though Duncan is a better defender, he hasn't been enough of a better defender to make up for Dirk's advantage offensively. That said, Duncan has another level or two to elevate his game and Dirk is pretty much going all out right now.

But I can't buy the argument that Dirk has in any way been shorted in the teammates department. He plays for a billionaire who has given him plenty of very good pieces along the way. Nash is a Hall of Famer. Finley was pretty damn good back in the day. Terry, Harris, JHo, Jamison, Van Exel and others have been very good at certain times. Dirk has had his chances over the years. Granted, he doesn't have a Parker and Ginobili duo as sidekicks but it's not like he had the trash David Robinson had either.

jack sommerset

01-21-2009, 02:44 PM

Rummpd

01-21-2009, 02:48 PM

Dirk is still a loser and only effective on one side of the ball. There is only one best PF in the NBA and that is Duncan. Mentioning anyone (with the possible exception of Garnett) is sublime.

DUNCANownsKOBE2

01-21-2009, 03:20 PM

Harris, Terry, Howard, Damp, Diop, Stack, Buckner, George, Croshere
Coach: Avery

Robinson, Parker, Ginobili, Jackson, Claxton, Bowen, Rose, Kerr
Coach: Popovich

Give me 03 Spurs, all day. Spurs were a much more balanced team, and much more well coached.

Is there a reason you neglect to mention Robinson was 37 years old, Ginobili was a completely different, less involved Ginobili back then, Parker was in his 2nd year, and Steve Kerr was 40, or did you intentionally list Manu and Robinson as if they were both in the prime of their career? There's no point in comparing the two when you put up a misleading argument.

Lets say that just for arguments sake Duncan's 03 supporting cast was slightly better than Dirk's 07 cast, but they are still comparable and close in ability. Does Duncan not make up for that with the fact the Spurs won a title and Dallas lost in the 1st round?

I'll ask this, if Dallas had Duncan instead of Dirk in 2007, would they have lost in the 1st round?

Les Grossman

01-21-2009, 03:25 PM

in fact, guarding him 1on1 is probably the best way to beat the Mavericks, even if he goes off. Which is why a bunch of 3pt shooters on the Mavericks is foolish - they need slashers to play off of a marquee shooter like Dirk ...
Obviously not. The Spurs know that as well as anyone. Then look at Golden State, and see the mass amounts of double and triple teams Dirk saw.

And where the hell are all these alleged three point shooters the Mavericks have? They have really only had TWO true 3 point shooters for several years now... Jet and Dirk. Harris, Howard, Stack, etc... all were either crappy, or extremely inconsistent 3pt shooters. You obviously have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

Ghazi

01-21-2009, 03:27 PM

Duncan commands double teams from the post, IE far away from the 3point line, and is not an outside shooter himself, so your comparison is completely irrelevant. Dirk is another big time outside shooter, maybe the best considering his size and lack of defenders who can guard him, who does not command double teams far from the three point line ... in fact, guarding him 1on1 is probably the best way to beat the Mavericks, even if he goes off. Which is why a bunch of 3pt shooters on the Mavericks is foolish - they need slashers to play off of a marquee shooter like Dirk ...

Oh please ... officiating influences that series, but the Mavs were up 2-0 ... no matter of officiating would have cost a true champion that series.

The Heat were not a worthy champion at all that year. Mavs were better, Spurs were better, even the Suns were better.

DUNCANownsKOBE2

01-21-2009, 03:29 PM

I"m sure Dirk going 4 for 16, 2 for 13 and 6 for 17 in 3 of the 4 losses to Golden State in 2007 didn't play a factor them losing at all.............

stretch

01-21-2009, 03:30 PM

All I see are Mavsfans giving excuses for like 6 teammates and why they weren't good enough to help Dirk to a championship ... then turning around and saying 03 Parker and Manu were legitimate second options, or even Robinson :lol

If you want to win, learn how to hold your fucking team accountable...

You obviously are too fucking stupid to comprehend what was said. What part of saying that Terry, Howard, and other players are incredibly inconsistent and were sucking at bad times, means we are making excuses? Fact is, they WERE NOT good enough. Shooting 20% in a playoff series is not going to help your team get past the first round, especially when the majority of your shots were open looks, or defended by one man. We have done nothing here EXCEPT hold the team accountable.

DUNCANownsKOBE2

01-21-2009, 03:30 PM

The Heat were not a worthy champion at all that year. Mavs were better, Spurs were better, even the Suns were better.

They won it regardless. Yes all 3 of those Western teams were better but the Heat got lucky with crap officiating and being hot and healthy at the right time.

stretch

01-21-2009, 03:34 PM

but it's not like he had the trash David Robinson had either.

Yes, but we are not comparing Dirk to D-Rob. And D-Rob didn't win a title either, until he got Duncan... another legit star, who turned out to be the best PF of all time. I'd like to see what Dirk could have done with another legit star.

Ghazi

01-21-2009, 03:35 PM

People exaggerate Dirk's playoff shortcomings. It's not as if the Mavs have had a championship roster the past 7-8 years and have came up short because of Dirk. The Mavs had very good teams in the early part of this decade but it was a smallball scheme with no emphasis on defense and rebounding, which is a formula proven to not win titles.

The only two years the Mavs had a roster capable of winning a championship were 05-06 and 06-07. Again, 05-06 if a few calls WEREN'T made in favor of the Heat then Dirk's legacy and perception would be completely different. 06-07 was just the Warriors being the Mavs kryptonite, as was already established in the regular season.

Dirk averages 25/11 in the playoffs, he does not underperform in the playoffs at all. Dirk may not be good enough to be the best player on a championship team though, whereas Duncan is... Dirk is stuck in the limbo in between a #1 option and a #2 option.

nsrammstein

01-21-2009, 03:36 PM

I"m sure Dirk going 4 for 16, 2 for 13 and 6 for 17 in 3 of the 4 losses to Golden State in 2007 didn't play a factor them losing at all.............

and every GS player shooting 80% FG from the field and baron davis shooting 96% from three pt field goal helped right? oh and im sure howard going 0-16 after the first 3qtrs helped too right?

timvp

01-21-2009, 03:37 PM

Yes, but we are not comparing Dirk to D-Rob. And D-Rob didn't win a title either, until he got Duncan... another legit star, who turned out to be the best PF of all time. I'd like to see what Dirk could have done with another legit star.Fair.

Although how is playing with a Hall of Fame point guard in his prime not considered playing with a legit star?

stretch

01-21-2009, 03:37 PM

Is there a reason you neglect to mention Robinson was 37 years old, Ginobili was a completely different, less involved Ginobili back then, Parker was in his 2nd year, and Steve Kerr was 40, or did you intentionally list Manu and Robinson as if they were both in the prime of their career? There's no point in comparing the two when you put up a misleading argument.

Lets say that just for arguments sake Duncan's 03 supporting cast was slightly better than Dirk's 07 cast, but they are still comparable and close in ability. Does Duncan not make up for that with the fact the Spurs won a title and Dallas lost in the 1st round?

I'll ask this, if Dallas had Duncan instead of Dirk in 2007, would they have lost in the 1st round?

I am not saying that San Antonio's 03 squad was neccesarily as or more talented, but they had a much more balanced team, and a much better coach.

And with the way Avery was coaching, he probably would have put Duncan on the bench against the Warriors. Dude was a fucking idiot to try to go small against them...

nsrammstein

01-21-2009, 03:38 PM

Fair.

Although how is playing with a Hall of Fame point guard in his prime not considered playing with a legit star?

Nash didn't hit his prime until he went to PHX

timvp

01-21-2009, 03:44 PM

Nash didn't play in a gimmick system that exaggerated his strengths and resulting stats until he went to PHX

Fixed.

dirk4mvp

01-21-2009, 03:45 PM

Fixed.

In that case, Nash wasn't a legit star like you said.

z0sa

01-21-2009, 03:47 PM

Obviously not. The Spurs know that as well as anyone. Then look at Golden State, and see the mass amounts of double and triple teams Dirk saw.

And where the hell are all these alleged three point shooters the Mavericks have? They have really only had TWO true 3 point shooters for several years now... Jet and Dirk. Harris, Howard, Stack, etc... all were either crappy, or extremely inconsistent 3pt shooters. You obviously have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

You obviously didn't read what I was responding to, dimwit, nor my post.. but then again it's also obvious you're a couple of pennies short of two cents to add to the discussion.

Someone said Tim would be getting mauled on the Mavericks since they have no real 3pt shooters ... but that's completely irrelevant because the Mavs are built around a jumpshooter, not a low post player, and that's why they don't have as many three point marksmen as the spurs, nor have they had as many ...

Learn how to read.

timvp

01-21-2009, 03:48 PM

In that case, Nash wasn't a legit star like you said.He was basically the same player in Dallas. His skills just became more noticeable once he hit PHX.

stretch

01-21-2009, 03:49 PM

Although how is playing with a Hall of Fame point guard in his prime not considered playing with a legit star?

Was he truly HOF material before going to the Suns? I think it's pretty clear that Nash benefited greatly from being in a system that utilized his abilities to the best. But before that, he was very good, but not quite great either.

stretch

01-21-2009, 03:55 PM

He was basically the same player in Dallas. His skills just became more noticeable once he hit PHX.

Because the skills he had were being used more to their potential. Fact is, if he stayed playing the same way he was in Dallas, no way in hell does he win an MVP.

z0sa

01-21-2009, 03:56 PM

You obviously are too fucking stupid to comprehend what was said.

Oh my, did I call you on out on your stupid take? Or your excuse making? I'm sorry, I guess since you're such a pathetic loser of a fan I shouldn't bring up the cold heart facts.

What part of saying that Terry, Howard, and other players are incredibly inconsistent and were sucking at bad times, means we are making excuses? Fact is, they WERE NOT good enough.

Oh but that team sure were good enough to beat the defending champs at home in OT of Game 7 ... STFU, you're argument is circular in nature and full of shit ... "Oh because Miami fucking owned us mentally we get to use that as a reason none of our guys who got us all this way are legitimate helpers for Dirk." That arguments got so many holes its called an excuse you whiny bitch.

Shooting 20% in a playoff series is not going to help your team get past the first round, especially when the majority of your shots were open looks, or defended by one man. We have done nothing here EXCEPT hold the team accountable.

I could give a shit less about Dirk and the Mavericks absolutely HUGE fail against the Warriors, or their equally disheartening loss to the Hornets. I'm worried about the series they could have and SHOULD have taken: that 06 Miami series, the only one that matters now that we think about it with 20/20 vision.

z0sa

01-21-2009, 03:58 PM

Was he truly HOF material before going to the Suns? I think it's pretty clear that Nash benefited greatly from being in a system that utilized his abilities to the best. But before that, he was very good, but not quite great either.

Nash is clearly = to a Parker, minimum, and with Finley, I think you can say you had the equivalent Manu OR Tony and Tim from our 05 run ... but continue crying and acting like Nash and Finley, who made all-star teams as Mavericks, were not legitimate supporting options.

BTW, Nellyball is sooo slow paced and half court oriented ... I mean, Nash never attempted a fast break under his Pop-like style. :rolleyes

Terry, Howard, and other players are incredibly inconsistent and were sucking at bad times

if that's not an excuse, I've never seen one :lmao They were "sucking at bad times" ... LOL, what a fucking copout. You got rid of your legitimate second option, Nash, and replaced him with Terry; nobody's problem but the Mavs FO. Going on, Howard replaced Finley very nicely while he was abusing teams in the playoffs and playing Great D, but now that the whole team is about to fall apart, he was never a legitimate second option :cry.

stretch

01-21-2009, 04:37 PM

4 rings BITCH!!!

:rolleyes

DUNCANownsKOBE2

01-21-2009, 04:54 PM

In that case, Nash wasn't a legit star like you said.

No one on the Mike D'antoni Suns teams was besides Joe Johnson and maybe Boris Diaw (seriously the guy has legit talent). Amare clearly needs a system to create space for him since he is worthless in congested lanes. Nash we all know he's an above average point guard w/o D'antoni but not an MVP. Marion we all knew was a product of Mike D's system from the start.

The Suns would be one of the bottom feeders this year if they still had Marion instead of Shaq and Porter was coach.

Heck, D'antoni was a good defensive coach considering the job he's done compared to Porter.

endrity

01-21-2009, 05:25 PM

Well this thread went a complete different direction.

First off, Duncan is best all time, no one disputes that.

Second, as Garnett told us, even the biggest "losers" can win if they have the right cast around them. I am sure Dirk can, and I think his 2006 run does prove that. The Heat won either because of horrible officiating, or because Wade had a run that was statistically the best in history (even better than Jordan ever had) that almost no one can do anything against. Fact is Dirk has never had anything like the Ginobili of 2005 or Parker of 2007 on his team. He has had good players around him, often overpaid by Cubes' rich pockets, but never a legit AllStar sidekick while Dirk was in his prime.