it's time to limit Finley's minutes..

[HarlemHeat37]

I give Michael Finley credit for his off-season workout, and the improvement in his game this year..he's moving a lot better, he's expanded his game slightly..I'm NOT asking for a benching, or for a low amount of minutes..

the problem is that he's playing 28 MPG..Finley shouldn't be playing that many minutes in ANY scenario..when his shooting isn't there, he's COMPLETELY USELESS to our team..horrible defender, horrible passer, horrible decision maker..

Pop is limiting Bowen's minutes to 20 MPG at this point..it's actually less, since his minutes have been lower since Manu-Parker returned..I don't have a problem with Bowen playing 20 MPG, that's enough to conserve his minutes for the playoffs, and enough to keep him in a rhythm..

I don't have a problem with Mase's minutes, although I wouldn't mind seeing him get a few more..

I know we like to play small ball a lot, but I feel like we need to give more minutes to certain guys instead of Finley..let's see George Hill get more minutes at the 2, Mason get a few more minutes..Kurt and Fab should get more minutes as well..I wouldn't even mind seeing Ime get a few more minutes ahead of Finley..

28 MPG is too much..I think 20 MPG would be ideal for Finley..he should be used strictly as an offensive spark when we need his shooting against certain teams..

[xtremesteven33]

When Finleys hot he can make seemingly bad shots look great.

When Finleys off, hes basically useless. No offense Fin, but its true.

[crc21209]

Agreed, and Agreed. When he's on and hot, everything is going in, its fine. But when he's jacking up 3 after 3 and brick after brick, either drive the ball or sit your ass down or something. Because even though I think he's improved a bit as a defender we might as well put Bruce out there or someone else because Finley sucks when hes off.

[HarlemHeat37]

exactly..I want him to get minutes, because he CAN be useful when he's making his shots..so he should get just enough minutes to get an indication of how he's feeling that night..since like I said, and as you guys said, he's absolutely horrible when his shot is off..

[MarHill]

I believe Bruce will get some more of Fin's minutes as the season goes along. I'm a Fin supporter...but he's definitely streaky.
However, he can make tough shots and I think Pop likes having on the floor because of that.

But, if you reduce his minutes 20 per game..I'm okay with that!

[Pauleta14]

I give Michael Finley credit for his off-season workout, and the improvement in his game this year..he's moving a lot better, he's expanded his game slightly..I'm NOT asking for a benching, or for a low amount of minutes..

the problem is that he's playing 28 MPG..Finley shouldn't be playing that many minutes in ANY scenario..when his shooting isn't there, he's COMPLETELY USELESS to our team..horrible defender, horrible passer, horrible decision maker..

Pop is limiting Bowen's minutes to 20 MPG at this point..it's actually less, since his minutes have been lower since Manu-Parker returned..I don't have a problem with Bowen playing 20 MPG, that's enough to conserve his minutes for the playoffs, and enough to keep him in a rhythm..

I don't have a problem with Mase's minutes, although I wouldn't mind seeing him get a few more..

I know we like to play small ball a lot, but I feel like we need to give more minutes to certain guys instead of Finley..let's see George Hill get more minutes at the 2, Mason get a few more minutes..Kurt and Fab should get more minutes as well..I wouldn't even mind seeing Ime get a few more minutes ahead of Finley..

28 MPG is too much..I think 20 MPG would be ideal for Finley..he should be used strictly as an offensive spark when we need his shooting against certain teams..

I think that although Mason is clearly more productive than Finley, he still has to learn all the spurs playbook... and it takes time on and off the bench! We are not enven at the half of the season and he is clearly ahead of his schedule...
I'm sure that comming the playoffs, his playing time will increase...

[HarlemHeat37]

usually I would agree about the playoffs..if it was any other player, I would believe that Mason, Bowen and Hill would be getting a lot of his minutes in the playoffs..but this is Michael Finley, and we all know about Pop's man-crush on Finley..

[Austin_Toros]

well, he played 24 mins and was horribly from the floor.
0-7 from 3 point land is unacceptable when that is what the player is in the court for- to hit shots from 3
he's still valuable to the spurs, but limited minutes is appropriate

[Pauleta14]

usually I would agree about the playoffs..if it was any other player, I would believe that Mason, Bowen and Hill would be getting a lot of his minutes in the playoffs..but this is Michael Finley, and we all know about Pop's man-crush on Finley..

Love is blind...:lol

[SenorSpur]

I believe Bruce will get some more of Fin's minutes as the season goes along. I'm a Fin supporter...but he's definitely streaky.
However, he can make tough shots and I think Pop likes having on the floor because of that.

But, if you reduce his minutes 20 per game..I'm okay with that!

Agree, agree and agree some more. Absolutely Pop should decrease Fin's minutes. If he is struggling with his shot, he needs to sit. Bowen can more than give us what we're not getting from Fin.

Frankly, I didn't expect him to be playing this much and for Bowen to have been playing so little, at this point. If you want to zero in on one reason to the Spurs declining perimeter defense, he's a good place to start. Other players have come through this system and couldn't catch on and were heavily criticized. Yet Fin seems to get a pass, despite his defensive liabilities.

[Bruno]

Props to Finley. He is having a solid season. :tu

And the first to blame for Finley playing too much is Udoka. He should have been an important piece of this year's team as a perimeter defender and small ball PF. So far, he has failed in both aspect. Aside of players who have had injuries (Oberto and Mahinmi), Udoka is the only Spurs who has been a disappointment this year.

[EricB]

Agree, agree and agree some more. Absolutely Pop should decrease Fin's minutes. If he is struggling with his shot, he needs to sit. Bowen can more than give us what we're not getting from Fin.

Frankly, I didn't expect him to be playing this much and for Bowen to have been playing so little, at this point. If you want to zero in on one reason to the Spurs declining perimeter defense, he's a good place to start. Other players have come through this system and couldn't catch on and were heavily criticized. Yet Fin seems to get a pass, despite his defensive liabilities.


What players are these please....

[scanry]

What players are these please....


:lol:lol:lol

You know what i can't think of any player who hasn't excelled defensively while playing for the spurs. Playing defense for the spurs isn't actually that hard because of the Spurs system. Heck even Beno played a lot better than Finley and even Van Excel wasn't that much of a liability as Finley. :bang:bang:bang

[SenorSpur]

Elson and Nazr were not exactly considered smashing defensive successed during their short stints as Spurs.

[Fabbs]

Elson and Nazr were not exactly considered smashing defensive successed during their short stints as Spurs.
Championships/years with Spurs
Nazy 1 for 1.25
Elson 1 for 1 (traded the next season halfway thru)

Finley 1 for 3 so far and looking :depressed for any 2 for 4 shot.
True, T Park will point out how Fins sucked in the 2007 reg season and rocked the playoffs. I don't see that happening again. Hope I'm wrong because obviously Popped is not seeking any kind of separation whatsoever.

Preseason one and all (you too T Parkle) we said Fins would be okay as a 12th man this year. Instead we have to watch his and Poppeds affair every night for 28 minutes.

[Capt Bringdown]

If I was a player, I might wonder why some players get benched after making a single mistake, yet Finley is allowed to lay bricks night after night.

[AFBlue]

Props to Finley. He is having a solid season. :tu

And the first to blame for Finley playing too much is Udoka. He should have been an important piece of this year's team as a perimeter defender and small ball PF. So far, he has failed in both aspect. Aside of players who have had injuries (Oberto and Mahinmi), Udoka is the only Spurs who has been a disappointment this year.

Very good post...

The flipside of giving less minutes to Finley is giving more minutes to who?

Mason is already logging a ton of minutes and can be just as streaky a shooter as Finley.

Bowen's minutes are being limited for a reason, and he gives next to nothing offensively.

Hill is a rookie, therefore prone to inconsistency and fatigue.

That leaves Udoka...who has shown next to nothing when he gets the opportunity on the court. I was sincerely hoping for a step forward from Udoka this season and have been sorely disappointed. When it comes down to it, he's just a fringe NBA player.

Bottom Line: Finley does need to be on a tighter leash where his minutes should reflect his performance...but the staff shouldn't just make the change for the heck of it. Fin has played very well to date, so poor shooting nights can be absorbed a little easier.

[weebo]

Fin is a volume shooter. A shooter is asked to shoot whether his shot is going in or not. As many have said, when he is on he'll make any shot look easy, but when he is off ..well you know. However, as much of a streaky shooter as Fin is, you can't expect Pop or the coaching staff to look into some crystal ball and know when he's going to lite'em up from the outside--you live and die with guys like Finely just because their nature is to go 0-7 one minute and 5-5 the next.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I give Michael Finley credit for his off-season workout, and the improvement in his game this year..he's moving a lot better, he's expanded his game slightly..I'm NOT asking for a benching, or for a low amount of minutes..

the problem is that he's playing 28 MPG..Finley shouldn't be playing that many minutes in ANY scenario..when his shooting isn't there, he's COMPLETELY USELESS to our team..horrible defender, horrible passer, horrible decision maker..

Pop is limiting Bowen's minutes to 20 MPG at this point..it's actually less, since his minutes have been lower since Manu-Parker returned..I don't have a problem with Bowen playing 20 MPG, that's enough to conserve his minutes for the playoffs, and enough to keep him in a rhythm..

I don't have a problem with Mase's minutes, although I wouldn't mind seeing him get a few more..

I know we like to play small ball a lot, but I feel like we need to give more minutes to certain guys instead of Finley..let's see George Hill get more minutes at the 2, Mason get a few more minutes..Kurt and Fab should get more minutes as well..I wouldn't even mind seeing Ime get a few more minutes ahead of Finley..

28 MPG is too much..I think 20 MPG would be ideal for Finley..he should be used strictly as an offensive spark when we need his shooting against certain teams..

Agreed. Finley is playing too much. Keep him to 15-20 mins a game, and share the rest out between Hill, Mase and Ime.

I'll note that I have been calling for this all season.

[Fabbs]

If I was a player, I might wonder why some players get benched after making a single mistake, yet Finley is allowed to lay bricks night after night.

:clap :clap
I did a thread quite a while ago on "Are Pop and Finley Dating?". I wasn't kidding. From a basketball viewpoint, could there be any reason he singles out Finley for unaccountability?

That and the "leadership he brings to the lockeroom".
You know, from all those Mavs titles.:rollin Nothing like Tim Dunks, Manu, Bowen and Parker could bring.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Fin is a volume shooter. A shooter is asked to shoot whether his shot is going in or not. As many have said, when he is on he'll make any shot look easy, but when he is off ..well you know. However, as much of a streaky shooter as Fin is, you can't expect Pop or the coaching staff to look into some crystal ball and know when he's going to lite'em up from the outside--you live and die with guys like Finely just because their nature is to go 0-7 one minute and 5-5 the next.

Except that is the coaching staff's job!

Hell, anyone with half a bball acumen can tell when Finley is going to have a poor night. If he starts out hot and plays right - hits a couple of shots coming off screens or wide open from 3 - he gets another stretch later in the game. However, any time he starts jacking up early-in-the-clock leaners or fadeaways (ie. forces it), which he invariably misses, that means he's off and should sit.

Finley plays well when he sticks to what 35yo (36?) Michael Finley can do well - shoot of screens, shoot wide open 3s, go to the rack when he has no-one in fron of him, hit the boards. When he goes beyond that and imagines he's 25yo Michael Finley, he's a disaster and should be dragged, rapped over the knuckles, and sent to bed without any supper! :lmao

[MrChug]

Michael Finley has truly been the least consistent performer. Nothing coming from his end and I REALLY not just looking at the box score. He can still play key minutes but NOT start. He's taken it for granted. Bowen, you've earned your time back.

C-Thomas
PF-Duncan
SF-Bowen
SG-Mason
PG-Parker

[SequSpur]

Finley is fukin awesome. Yeah, lets play Bruce Bowen so we can definitely make the lottery.

[Shastafarian]

Finley is fukin awesome. Yeah, lets play Bruce Bowen so we can definitely make the lottery.

11-40 in his last 5 games. That's 27.5%.

[weebo]

Except that is the coaching staff's job!

Hell, anyone with half a bball acumen can tell when Finley is going to have a poor night. If he starts out hot and plays right - hits a couple of shots coming off screens or wide open from 3 - he gets another stretch later in the game. However, any time he starts jacking up early-in-the-clock leaners or fadeaways (ie. forces it), which he invariably misses, that means he's off and should sit.

Finley plays well when he sticks to what 35yo (36?) Michael Finley can do well - shoot of screens, shoot wide open 3s, go to the rack when he has no-one in fron of him, hit the boards. When he goes beyond that and imagines he's 25yo Michael Finley, he's a disaster and should be dragged, rapped over the knuckles, and sent to bed without any supper! :lmao

I certainly can't tell when Fin will heat up, and I'm sure Pop and the rest of the bunch can't tell either. Pop knows what he has in Fin, Bonner, Mase, and so on...these guys are shooters! Shooters will be hot one minute and cold the next. Hence, you'll often hear Pop say to his guys "shoot or sit". I'm not defending Fin for his shortcomings (on defense mostly), but to put the square blame on him for missing shots is unfair. Should we bench TP for overdribbling? Manu for turning the ball over? No.
The point is Fin was brought here to shoot the ball..be it fadeaways or leaners early or late in the clock. Shooters can't be gunshy about shooting the basketball under any circumstance(i.e. Barry).

[SpursPreacher]

I think finley the last few games has been rushing or in a hurry shooting.I think he needs to settle down and relax in that shot.He is a much better shooter when he is taking his time.

[GSH]

:lol:lol:lol

You know what i can't think of any player who hasn't excelled defensively while playing for the spurs. Playing defense for the spurs isn't actually that hard because of the Spurs system. Heck even Beno played a lot better than Finley and even Van Excel wasn't that much of a liability as Finley. :bang:bang:bang

Barry wasn't exactly known for his defense, although he worked at it. Steve Kerr wasn't on the floor for his defense, either. How about Nick Van Exel? Hedo Turkoglu never really got the system. Neither did Elson. Benoh, Charlie Ward, Ron Mercer, Damon Stoudamire? Steve Smith?

Some never got minutes - the most obvious being Jackie Butler. Matt Carrol has a smooth stroke, and can score in bunches, but his defense was non-existent and he couldn't get minutes. They said that Linton Johnson looked like Stephen Jackons but defended like Bruce Bowen... not.

I can't think of anyone who defended like Finley who still got minutes.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If his jumper is off hes fucking worthless. Pop keeping him in games when he has already missed 5 shots in a row baffles me.

[Capt Bringdown]

And the first to blame for Finley playing too much is Udoka. He should have been an important piece of this year's team as a perimeter defender and small ball PF. So far, he has failed in both aspect. Aside of players who have had injuries (Oberto and Mahinmi), Udoka is the only Spurs who has been a disappointment this year.

Udoka can't redeem himself if he's sitting on the bench watching Finley play matador defense and heave bricks.

I agree, Finley has had a decent season until recent games. But at the game management level, I don't understand why Pop gives him so much slack. If he sucks, sit him down. Pop's not adverse to doing that with other players.

[mrspurs]

Props to Finley. He is having a solid season. :tu

And the first to blame for Finley playing too much is Udoka. He should have been an important piece of this year's team as a perimeter defender and small ball PF. So far, he has failed in both aspect. Aside of players who have had injuries (Oberto and Mahinmi), Udoka is the only Spurs who has been a disappointment this year.

Agreed, if Ime had improved, Mike would sit more.

[mrspurs]

Elson and Nazr were not exactly considered smashing defensive successed during their short stints as Spurs.

I bet if they could shoot the 3, they both would be on this roster today.

[Spurs Brazil]

I'd like to see Finley playing less to not see the same disaster of last year playoffs.

I have no problems with Finley shooting a lot since it's a good shots and in the last 5 or 6 games he's shoting a lot of bad shots

[Bruno]

Udoka can't redeem himself if he's sitting on the bench watching Finley play matador defense and heave bricks.


Udoka had played more than 400 minutes this year. That's a lot for a vet player to show what you are able to do. Udoka has had a fair opportunity to show what he was able to do this year and he has wasted it.

Maybe Pop will give him another opportunity but I wouldn't be surprised to see Udoka staying in the doghouse for the whole year or being traded at the deadline.

[easy7]

If we get rid of Finley and lose his 2 points per 30 minutes, 20 bricks and having the opponent score 20 on him each time, then watching the Spurs blow out everyone will just become boring. I say keep Fin and the last second bucket win. :p:

[Baseline]

Finley's minutes need to be reduced to ZERO.

I'm at the point where if he does anything positive, I'm ticked off - because that buys him even more time on the court.

I don't know what his +/- stats are, but it's blatantly obvious that we hurts us more often than not. In my opinion, Bowen brings so much more to the table from an overall standpoint.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I certainly can't tell when Fin will heat up, and I'm sure Pop and the rest of the bunch can't tell either. Pop knows what he has in Fin, Bonner, Mase, and so on...these guys are shooters! Shooters will be hot one minute and cold the next. Hence, you'll often hear Pop say to his guys "shoot or sit". I'm not defending Fin for his shortcomings (on defense mostly), but to put the square blame on him for missing shots is unfair. Should we bench TP for overdribbling? Manu for turning the ball over? No.
The point is Fin was brought here to shoot the ball..be it fadeaways or leaners early or late in the clock. Shooters can't be gunshy about shooting the basketball under any circumstance(i.e. Barry).

Did you even read my post? I described the way to tell whether Finley will be hot or cold, and it works most of the time.

As for this: "The point is Fin was brought here to shoot the ball..be it fadeaways or leaners early or late in the clock. Shooters can't be gunshy about shooting the basketball under any circumstance" - have you heard of SHOT SELECTION? They shouldn't be shy about shooting good shots, but Finley has a tendency to jack up poor shots early in the clock and out of the offense, especially when he's shooting poorly. I'm sure that drives Pop to distraction.

[HarlemHeat37]

I have to re-visit this again..nothing has really changed..there's really no longer any reason for him to be playing the amount of minutes he's playing, since he seems to just be getting worse..