Some interesting stats of todays game

[YODA]

Been taking note on the number of 3's taken in a game and by whom.
In todays game,
Fin 1-9 ....... 7 of these shots were 3's
bonner 2-3 ......2 of these shots were 3's
Mason 4-9 ......6 of these shots were 3's
Manu 4-11 ......5 of these shots were 3's


Of these 4 players , they took a total of 32 shots. Of those 32 shots, 20 were 3 point attempts. That comes out to 62% of the shots taken by our gaurds and Bonner were 3 point attempts. For me this is a disturbing trend.
To me, it means our gaurds are not penetrating into the lane and are avoiding contact. And if they are not penetrating, then were also not going to the foul line. TP is the only one I see at times going into the lane, and some games, you can tell he really doesnt want to create the contact. A good example was the phil game, where TP settled for alot of jump shots. Even TD is guilty of this at times, but we can cant have the whole team not penetrating. We end up being just a 3 point shooting team.

What I hope to see more of?
More mid range jumpers and a little more attacking the rim from mason fin and Manu. Attacking the rim can create alot of easy jumpers, hopefully mid range ones. At the min, at least we would get more free throw attempts

has anyone else noticed this or am I just making stuff up here??

On another note, of our Gaurds Manu, Mason and Fin (who is playing SF)
they played a total of 82 min. of this 82 min and a total of 29 shots, they went to he foul line a total of 3 times, making 3-5

Maybe Yoda looking to much into this,,,the dark side cloudeth everything

[HarlemHeat37]

we do this much more vs. bad teams, where we fall asleep and settle for shots..

against the Lakers for example, Manu was very aggressive and the results showed offensively..Duncan dominated that game offensively, once he started being aggressive..when he was settling, that's when he was struggling in that game..

the aggressiveness of this team is dependent on Manu and Hill..we know what Tony and Tim do in the playoffs, they're both aggressive inside..it'll be up to Manu's shot selection, since he has a tendency to settle for bad 3's, instead of using his ability to get inside..it'll also be up to George Hill's mentality..we've seen how good he is at getting to the basket, and he's been the best at getting to the line outside of the big 3..

[MarHill]

I agree that the Spurs should be going to the basket more instead of settling for 3 pts. I've never been a huge 3 pt. shot guy! I believe that shot is fools gold. I know...it is a part of the Spurs arsenal and that won't change.

But....if you live by the 3, you can die by the 3.

The Spurs have some guys that can get to the basket (TP, Manu, Mason, and Hill) and they need to attack the paint more!!

[Austin_Toros]

yeah Mike Fin's shooting was yuck
also, bonner didn't play very much, I don't think..

[ManuTastic]

Actually, I like these stats. I would MUCH rather see Bonner, Fin, and Mason shoot 3s than 2s. Manu should do what he feels like, as always.
But seriously, Bonner is way more valuable hitting 3s than trying to do anything else. Finley is, shall we say, a bit long in the tooth to be slashing to the rim. And Mason has been so great with timely distance shooting I just wants me some more.

More seriously, the percentages favor shooting 3s. If you know going into a game you can make about half your 2s and almost 40% of your 3s, then you'd be a fool not to shoot 3s.

Also, Spurs have always been a 3-pt shooting team. :flag:

[HarlemHeat37]

you also have to remember how much toll it leaves on your body when you play inside..that's part of the reason Timmy improved his outside J this year, and has been much more comfortable taking those shots this year..

Ginobili also has an obvious history with injuries, so he's conserving his body as well(especially since Manu is known for throwing his body around everywhere)..

[YODA]

Tony and Manu just cant be the only ones,,,,We have to have other players take the heat off of driving the lane all the time. They tend to back off some games because noone else steps up. heck, I dont blame them.

[kace]

the only real question is : are these 3 good and open shots or bad shots ?

how can you pass on an wide open 3 ? you can't.

Right now, Tim doubled at the low post and Tony with his penetration give a lot of room to our shooter to take these 3. Manu at his best will also attack the rim more and give space to our shooters.

what i don't like is when some spurs shot it very quickly in the possession or when they have someone in front of them. i saw Bonner, manu and mason took this kind of shots.

but you can't pass on open 3's or Tim will be doubled and tony and manu will be prevented to attack the rim.

but sometimes taking too much 3 can put away some needed aggressiveness from our team. need a good balance, as usual.

[HarlemHeat37]

well Orlando is even more of a 3-point shooting team than we are, and it's working fine for them..it really doesn't matter, as long as you can mix it up at some points, and we certainly can with our big 3..

Boston was a jump-shooting team last year, and they won the title..

the shooting doesn't concern me..as long as we get our D where it should be, we'll be fine..our offense has been solid this year, and we have more weapons..

[Gino2882]

You are going to have off nights when you shoot a lot of threes.

As previously mentioned the defense is of more concern.

[YODA]

well Orlando is even more of a 3-point shooting team than we are, and it's working fine for them..it really doesn't matter, as long as you can mix it up at some points, and we certainly can with our big 3..


Boston was a jump-shooting team last year, and they won the title..



the shooting doesn't concern me..as long as we get our D where it should be, we'll be fine..our offense has been solid this year, and we have more weapons..

1. I just dont think we are mixing it up well enough yet...

2. jump shooting,,not 3 point shoooting

3. Agreed...D in most important, but when was the last time we blew out a team?? anyone? If were gonna be a great team, we should be blowing these teams out of the water..at least a few of them

[HarlemHeat37]

well right now, we aren't an elite team..we're the best team in the 2nd tier..we aren't on the same level as the top 4 teams, but we easily could be by the end of the year..

look at it..

we lost our 2nd and 3rd best players for a month+..our D isn't Spurs-like yet..yet we're still 2nd in the West right now..this team has a lot of room to grow, and we're going to be scary when we get it together..the rodeo trip is when it usually starts, so let's see how we look after that..

[MarHill]

Agreed...D in most important, but when was the last time we blew out a team?? anyone? If were gonna be a great team, we should be blowing these teams out of the water..at least a few of them

I believe blow-out games are a little overrated. Because a team could have a bad shooting night and lose by 20. Plus in an 82 game season...one team could be playing their 4th game in 5 nights and other team could be resting for a couple of days.

I will take a 3-8 pt game differential..if the Spurs are playing well on defense and their offense is executing well.

[YODA]

well right now, we aren't an elite team..we're the best team in the 2nd tier..we aren't on the same level as the top 4 teams, but we easily could be by the end of the year..

look at it..

we lost our 2nd and 3rd best players for a month+..our D isn't Spurs-like yet..yet we're still 2nd in the West right now..this team has a lot of room to grow, and we're going to be scary when we get it together..the rodeo trip is when it usually starts, so let's see how we look after that..

Agreed

[YODA]

I believe blow-out games are a little overrated. Because a team could have a bad shooting night and lose by 20. Plus in an 82 game season...one team could be playing their 4th game in 5 nights and other team could be resting for a couple of days.

I will take a 3-8 pt game differential..if the Spurs are playing well on defense and their offense is executing well.


A few blow out games will be great for their confidence.Im not sure good they can feel about bairly getting by subpar teams.

[MarHill]

A few blow out games will be great for their confidence.Im not sure good they can feel about bairly getting by subpar teams.

Yoda,

I would agree with you...but when I look back the Spurs last 6 regular seasons...they have always had close wins against bad or mediocre teams. I'm not just surprised by it and its not a great indicator of how dominant a team is come playoff time.

The 82 game season is grind and very much a groundhog day and these guys are human.

I will agree....that they want to play better defense and execute their offense better. But if they win by 3 or 4 points...i'm okay with that if they play well.

[FlAVaK]

"Roger" Bell: 11 FTA
Most since January 19th in 2004
Exactly 5 Years...

[SenorSpur]

You are going to have off nights when you shoot a lot of threes.

As previously mentioned the defense is of more concern.

Absolutely. And when those 3-pt shots are off, a team must do something else to create easier shots for itself. Like get closer to the basket. My concern is that the Spurs players have a tendency to continue "hoisting up" shots from the 3-pt line - even when they are cold.

[superbigtime]

Why are Spurs taking so many jump shots and 3s against crappy teams. This team is playing like a bunch of fraidy cats for 3 and a half quarters and trying to dig it out at the end of games. It's going to bitem on the ass. Spurs outrebounded again. We need a big guy so badly. I'm still hoping for Brad Miller. Come on Buford, get your nose out of that stripper's ass and get something done!

[HarlemHeat37]

LOL..Brad Miller?! he's one of the softest big men in the NBA..what would he bring? he's a jump shooter, which is what you complained about..

there's NOTHING wrong with shooting a lot..they're open shots for the most part..our points in the paint ranking is on the same pace as it's been for years..everybody knows we're more aggressive in the playoffs..

we don't have a problem on offense..it's all about the D..

[Rogue]

we are becoming more and more "mav" as our players keep aging. TP is still pretty young but he lookes no younger than his mates, never to mention those who are as old as the four rings and suffering series of injuries as well.

four rings, faggot.

[Yorae]

I think we couldn't count on manu to attack the rim on a night to night basis on the regular season. I believe that would eventually change come playoff time. I think it's time for mason to start driving to the hole because players are scared shitless of his shooting that they would always play him tight.

[YODA]

I think we couldn't count on manu to attack the rim on a night to night basis on the regular season. I believe that would eventually change come playoff time. I think it's time for mason to start driving to the hole because players are scared shitless of his shooting that they would always play him tight.


He seems intent in jumpshooting for now.

[m33p0]

we are becoming more and more "mav" as our players keep aging. TP is still pretty young but he lookes no younger than his mates, never to mention those who are as old as the four rings and suffering series of injuries as well.

four rings, faggot.
what?? you're a spurs fan again? :wow
your flip-flopping would put vlade to shame.

[Yorae]

Interesting "sequence" of the day.....

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/09/fullj.3aa2635b4bc16df1ecf8eba65effa630/3aa2635b4bc16df1ecf8eba65effa630-getty-82991221ks006_spur_bobct.jpg

Okafor doing vodoo over the ball

[peskypesky]

this is a VERY disturbing trend, and Pop better put an end to this.

[mrspurs]

Absolutely. And when those 3-pt shots are off, a team must do something else to create easier shots for itself. Like get closer to the basket. My concern is that the Spurs players have a tendency to continue "hoisting up" shots from the 3-pt line - even when they are cold.

Thats because Pop allows it. And thats what I call boring. When you have 1 or 2 guys launching 3s it aint so bad. But when half your roster launches 3s and noone is hitting. Very, Very boring.

[mrspurs]

LOL..Brad Miller?! he's one of the softest big men in the NBA..what would he bring? he's a jump shooter, which is what you complained about..

there's NOTHING wrong with shooting a lot..they're open shots for the most part..our points in the paint ranking is on the same pace as it's been for years..everybody knows we're more aggressive in the playoffs..

we don't have a problem on offense..it's all about the D..

Disagreed. Even Pop will tell you our offense isnt very good. We have to settle of jump shots long or short, because other the TP we dont have anyone who can make a layup.

[timvp]

The way this team is built, it's going to shoot a lot of threes. And thankfully, it has the ability to shoot for a high percentage.

I've seen some Spurs fans say that want RMJ to drive more ... but I don't really agree. He doesn't have much of a penetration game and it's been a low percentage play this season. He gets stripped a lot and isn't that good of a finisher. I'd much rather him shoot the three or take a dribble in and shoot the ~18 footer.

Bonner is pretty much the same story. Although he rarely takes the ball to the rim -- he instead usually drives in to pass. I'd like to see him take that 10-12 footer that he shoots well off the dribble.

Finley I either like him shooting the three or shooting off the curl following down screens. I don't like him shooting off the dribble. He'll make it sometimes but usually not. Plus when he misses it, he loses confidence in the rest of his game right away. Plus he's actually damn good off the curl so I'd like it best if he just stuck with that.

Bowen like always should stick to the corner three. Although I gotta say that his running left handed layup has been pretty darn effective this season. Not a bad add to the ol' repertoire for a 37-year-old.

It seems like Ginobili is settling for more threes but he's mixing up driving and perimeter shots almost exactly at the same rate as he did last season. The difference is he's not shooting the three at such a high percentage so his missed threes stand out more. I'm reasonably happy with Ginobili's shot selection and I expect him to mix up even more drives once he gets healthy. He's finishing at a great clip, his last step is to drive with a bit more power so that he can create more contact.

Parker is also mixing it up at almost the exact same rate as last season. That said, I'd like him driving to the basket even more. I know whiny Spurs fans say they don't like him "forcing shots when over bigmen" or whatever the complaint is but that's what TP has to do. If he only took open layups, he'd average about eight points per game. I'd like him to drive more, even if he has to force the action. Even if he misses, it allows Duncan to hit the offensive boards and it also sucks in the defense. Not to mention that it's hard for the opposition to run after a missed or blocked layup.

Duncan is shooting more jumpers this season and he's shooting them at a good clip. It's a good addition to his game and could go a long ways toward prolonging his career. He sometimes gets perimeter shot happy but I can live with it knowing it's limiting the wear and tear on his body. And when it comes down to it in the meat playoffs, I'm confident he'll go to his bread and butter post game.

[wildbill2u]

I agree that the Spurs should be going to the basket more instead of settling for 3 pts. I've never been a huge 3 pt. shot guy! I believe that shot is fools gold. I know...it is a part of the Spurs arsenal and that won't change.

But....if you live by the 3, you can die by the 3.

The Spurs have some guys that can get to the basket (TP, Manu, Mason, and Hill) and they need to attack the paint more!!

There are good statistical reasons why teams and players shoot 3s:

Assume your player takes 100 shots and compare the result between 3s and 2s:

Forget about unrealistic shooting percentages but just for grins say the player makes 50%:

50 3 pt shots made equal 150 pts compared to 100 pts for the mid range shots.

( 40%)40 3 pt shots made =120 pts vs. 80 pts at 2pt range.

(35%)35 3 pt. shots made= 105 pts. vs. 70 pts at 2 pt. range.

(30%) 30 3 pt shots made = 90 pts vs. 60 pts at 2 pt range.

WELL DUH! you say. That's too obvious. So why are some pros given the green light on 3s while others are considered liabilities if they hoist up 3s.

After all, the differential is always significantly in favor of the 3pt. shot.

EXCEPT when you figure in the rebounds of missed shots which give the opposing team their chance to hoist up some 3s of their own. :rollin

Thats why offensive rebounds are so important, especially for teams that rely on the 3 pt. shot. I think some statistician included the rebounding factor and figured out that a player shooting 3s has to shoot 35% or better in order for his team to come out on the plus side of the equasion.

[ManuTastic]

Regarding the above, obviously if you shoot the sam % from 2- or 3-pt range, you make more with 3s. The question is, do you shoot that much better from closer in that it offsets the 50% bonus you get with a made 3?

Also obviously, the best result of a possession is a dunk. If people are saying "Spurs need to get layups more than shoot 3s," then yes, that would be nice. However, of the players mentioned (Bonner, Fin, Mason, Manu), who realistically has a chance to get to the rim and finish as consistently as he shoots from deep? Only Manu. And he needs to shoot some 3s to a) recover his stroke and b) open up driving lanes.

From 82games.com, Spurs shooting % are:

from 3: 40% (2nd best in the league behind ORL, btw)
2 pt JUMP SHOTS (not layups): 42%
INSIDE shots: 61%

As the above makes clear, since SA shoots almost the same from 3 as they do on 2-pt jump shots, they should definitely shoot lots of 3s as opposed to closer jump shots. But if Manu wants to resume his sick slashing, that's cool too.
:bking

[wildbill2u]

a two point shooter has to shoot over 50% to almost equal a 35% 3 pt. shooter.

[YODA]

a two point shooter has to shoot over 50% to almost equal a 35% 3 pt. shooter.

2 point shooting would also mean getting freethrows for those who penentrate the lane. Thats a HUGE factor. Jump shots are seldom gonna be taking free throws. FYI....Freethrow attempts are very important part of the game