morbidly obese people

[stretch]

so periodically i see these shows of super fat people and how they are so big that they can barely even move and leave the house and stuff like that, and every time they eat, they chow down like 6 triple cheeseburgers and 4 buckets of fries. if they are so incapable of moving and doing crap, how the hell do they have the money to afford all that?

[timvp]

They get paid to go on those shows.

[stretch]

They get paid to go on those shows.

I'm sure they do, but I just wonder how before they got on those shows, they got that fat, and how they were able to afford it for so long.

[resistanze]

You just allocate more money for food from other needs (medicine, clothing, hygiene, etc.)

[FreeMason]

Your tax dollars.

[DarkReign]

I'm sure they do, but I just wonder how before they got on those shows, they got that fat, and how they were able to afford it for so long.

Social Security checks. You must remember, if they are obese the government considers them disabled. Thus, they dont work, they get a check every month and a nurse to come wash their ass twice a week for free.

You can thank the Americans with Disabilities Act, by Bush Sr, for the ease of getting a handicap sticker, making sure every public building is wheelchair accesible and that fat people are no longer over-eating gluttons, but people with a disease which causes disability, which means SS payments.

I'd repeal the ADA in a heartbeat.

[tonylongoriafan]

i saw this one guy on primetime or something that had a girlfriend and was going on a date on a flatbed trailer...after i finished :lmao i felt like shit cause i hadn't had a girlfriend in months :depressed WTF is that shit?

[stretch]

Social Security checks. You must remember, if they are obese the government considers them disabled. Thus, they dont work, they get a check every month and a nurse to come wash their ass twice a week for free.

You can thank the Americans with Disabilities Act, by Bush Sr, for the ease of getting a handicap sticker, making sure every public building is wheelchair accesible and that fat people are no longer over-eating gluttons, but people with a disease which causes disability, which means SS payments.

I'd repeal the ADA in a heartbeat.

Ah, gotcha. I always wondered...

[mrsmaalox]

What's always baffled me about those people is the sick symbiotic relationships they maintain. Okay, they can somehow afford the mass quantities of food, but if they can't move, someone has to be preparing and feeding them those 6 chickens for lunch everyday!!

[CavsSuperFan]

I was watching that show on TLC about morbidly obese people (was it two years ago?)…I was rooting for that 800 lb pound guy to lose weight…I thought he was hysterical how he would negotiate for extra hamburgers & fries with his registered dietician…Then the guy died…I mean this is reality TV & I was expecting a happy ending…It took a team of fireman to load him in a specially made flatbed truck to haul him away…

I feel sad for these morbidly obese people…It is a sickness…

[Wild Cobra]

They don't even have to be that big to be disgusting. Here's a real sight I once saw, totally gross:

caution... This may cause nightmares...

A 300 pound plus woman.

Wearing spandex

Riding a bicycle

on cobblestone....

My God.... The waves of rolling fat from the vibration of the cobblestone...

[SpursWoman]

At least she's trying to make a change.

[CuckingFunt]

They don't even have to be that big to be disgusting. Here's a real sight I once saw, totally gross:

caution... This may cause nightmares...

A 300 pound plus woman.

Wearing spandex

Riding a bicycle

on cobblestone....

My God.... The waves of rolling fat from the vibration of the cobblestone...

What's disgusting to me is how fucking judgmental a species we are.

Obesity is unhealthy, and often (not always) the result of poor lifestyle choices and/or a lack of discipline, but overweight people are still human beings and, as such, should be treated with a modicum of respect. If she was on a bicycle, it's entirely possible that she was making an attempt to live healthy and lose weight, but heaven forbid we commend someone for taking action to rid themselves of evil fatness. Especially when the health of your precious eyeballs hangs in the balance.

[Dex]

It's called put down the fork!

[Dex]

I'm not sure how much food one has to eat to get that big in the first place. I guess if all you can do is sit around and eat, it makes it easier.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

My nephew is engaged to a woman who is 5'3 and at least a deuce and a half. She has no neck and pterodactyl arms. The real problem is that he has a weak heart and has gained 30 lbs. since dating her. And he's only 22 and will have his PHD by 26.

Oh, and she's a cunt.

[Crookshanks]

There's a woman who works in my office who is so obese - she's a walking heart attack. She has a handicap sticker so she parks right outside the door; but she's so fat she has to rest on a bench in the lobby after just walking from her car to the door! Her breathing is very labored and when she walks she looks the Penguin character from Batman II! But what's really sad is that she used to be a size 4 - but she went through a nasty divorce and turned to food for an emotional crutch.

I really am afraid she's going to die one of these days just walking down the hall to her desk. My ex-husband worked with a guy who was so fat they had to get him a special chair. I don't know how anyone could find the guy attractive - but he had a girlfriend and they actually got married. Now she was pretty chunky herself - makes you wonder how in the world they could have sex?! :wow Anyway, he died suddenly of a heart attack one day - and I don't think he was more than 35 years old - so sad. :depressed

[FromWayDowntown]

What's disgusting to me is how fucking judgmental a species we are.

Amen to that.

[I. Hustle]

What's disgusting to me is how fucking judgmental a species we are.

Obesity is unhealthy, and often (not always) the result of poor lifestyle choices and/or a lack of discipline, but overweight people are still human beings and, as such, should be treated with a modicum of respect. If she was on a bicycle, it's entirely possible that she was making an attempt to live healthy and lose weight, but heaven forbid we commend someone for taking action to rid themselves of evil fatness. Especially when the health of your precious eyeballs hangs in the balance.

She said cum

[DarkReign]

What's disgusting to me is how fucking judgmental a species we are.

Obesity is unhealthy, and often (not always) the result of poor lifestyle choices and/or a lack of discipline, but overweight people are still human beings and, as such, should be treated with a modicum of respect. If she was on a bicycle, it's entirely possible that she was making an attempt to live healthy and lose weight, but heaven forbid we commend someone for taking action to rid themselves of evil fatness. Especially when the health of your precious eyeballs hangs in the balance.

While I agree a person trying to lose weight thru excercise and dieting should be encouraged and not ridiculed, why do think our "species is so judgemental"?

Could it be because its evolutionarily advantageous? It is said that a person's left-to-right-side symmetry plays a very unique part in what we as a species find attractive. That it is a sign of good genes.

I also find it hard to believe you hold the same standard to your everyday interactions. I am sure youre fine with obese/fat people, until they say something nasty to you, or cut you off in traffic...I am quite sure "fat bitch" has slipped your lips more than once in your tolerant life of self-induced-conditions.

Dont get high and mighty about how judgemental we as a species are when its perfectly normal, healthy and proactive to be so. Especially when it comes to handing out pity-for-a-dime to those who suffer from conditions well within their sphere of control.

Nobody is crying for me on the sidewalks because I smoke, but I get shit from numerous people about the smell (for instance).

Why is it you feel there shouldnt be the same indignation for an obese person wearing spandex, with a bike seat crammed half-way into their colon, riding down a rocky surface visually detailing the icky details of poor life choices?

As long as youre not approaching her/him and saying as much (for no good reason mind you), its perfectly acceptable behavior, IMO. I, as a smoker, am treated with less respect than that.

But is it because smoking is a villified sub-section of our society and therefore allowed to be ridiculed because it is socially accpetable to do so?

Well, since the percentage of smokers has dropped dramatically since it become socially unaccetable to be so, maybe we as a society should consider obesity to be socially unacceptable.

Worked for smoking, right? Obesity is arguably more harmful to one's health than smoking, right? Should be treated the same, right?

Of course not. Smokers arent afforded "handicap" status because they cant breathe. Fat people are because their lungs, knees, ankles and heart cant handle a walk form their car to their front door.

My point is, dont get so high on yourself as to think youre above humanity's judgements. Its a tall order to seperate yourself from the pack of humans who surround you. Nearly impossible.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

You're going to open up the argument that obesity doesn't harm anyone but the obese person while smoking harms others via SHS.

Unless of course you're on a boat in upstate NY.

[The Reckoning]

[quote=DarkReign;3041800]I, as a smoker, am treated with less respect than that.
quote]

:tu

seriously, when im in public it makes me feel like im hitting a crack pipe the way people look at me. like the dude says on Supersize Me - its socially acceptable to tell a smoker to stop smoking but not a fat person to stop eating. the ADA should be repealed btw...i mean how can you be eligible for a sticker if you have trouble counting money?

[manufor3]

Unless of course you're on a boat in upstate NY.

lol

[The Reckoning]

You're going to open up the argument that obesity doesn't harm anyone but the obese person while smoking harms others via SHS.

Unless of course you're on a boat in upstate NY.


when you have more than a quarter of the world starving, it sure as hell does

[Blake]

As long as youre not approaching her/him and saying as much (for no good reason mind you), its perfectly acceptable behavior, IMO. I, as a smoker, am treated with less respect than that.

But is it because smoking is a villified sub-section of our society and therefore allowed to be ridiculed because it is socially accpetable to do so?

Well, since the percentage of smokers has dropped dramatically since it become socially unaccetable to be so, maybe we as a society should consider obesity to be socially unacceptable.

Worked for smoking, right? Obesity is arguably more harmful to one's health than smoking, right? Should be treated the same, right?

Of course not. Smokers arent afforded "handicap" status because they cant breathe. Fat people are because their lungs, knees, ankles and heart cant handle a walk form their car to their front door.

My point is, dont get so high on yourself as to think youre above humanity's judgements. Its a tall order to seperate yourself from the pack of humans who surround you. Nearly impossible.

it isn't because obesity is any less of a health problem than smoking...

it's that a fat person doesn't blow second hand fat in my face

[DarkReign]

You're going to open up the argument that obesity doesn't harm anyone but the obese person while smoking harms others via SHS.

...which is exactly the argument I dont want to have. I referenced the smell, not the smoke, for this very reason.


Unless of course you're on a boat in upstate NY.

right over my head....

[Blake]

You're going to open up the argument that obesity doesn't harm anyone but the obese person while smoking harms others via SHS.



:rolleyes

seems like you are the one with the can opener

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

...which is exactly the argument I dont want to have. I referenced the smell, not the smoke, for this very reason.

Doesn't matter. See above your post.




right over my head....

On October 2, 2005 the Ethan Allen, a tour boat operating in Lake George, New York, capsized. Twenty of the 48 people aboard died in the accident.

http://www.ntsb.gov/pressrel/2006/060628.htm

[DarkReign]

it isn't because obesity is any less of a health problem than smoking...

it's that a fat person doesn't blow second hand fat in my face

You again. Try and stay with the thread. The smell of smoke, not the smoke itself.

[SpursWoman]

What I'd like to know, is whatever happened to the old addage, "if you don't have anything nice to say, keep your fucking mouth shut you obnoxious prick .... your fat mouth isn't any less repulsive than her fat ass or him smelling like a wet nasty ashtray" ?

Or something like that. :spin

[DarkReign]

What I'd like to know, is whatever happened to the old addage, "if you don't have anything nice to say, keep your fucking mouth shut you obnoxious prick .... your fat mouth isn't any less repulsive than her fat ass or him smelling like a wet nasty ashtray" ?

Or something like that. :spin

Agreed, thus the reason I said "as long as youre not saying it to the person for no good reason", to paraphrase.

But get real for a second, some over-weight beast talks some shit to you or busts on you in some way, the first thing out of your mouth is going to start or end with "fat bitch".

[SpursWoman]

But get real for a second, some over-weight beast talks some shit to you or busts on you in some way, the first thing out of your mouth is going to start or end with "fat bitch".


Actually, fucking cunt is usually the first thing out of my mouth. I've been the fat and the smoking bitch ... so those aren't anything I'd ever use as an insult to anyone. Call it empathy, compassion ... whatever. Knowing how much it fucking sucks to be the butt end of the bullshit. That's real.

Fucking cunt or fucking bitch are nice, non-gender/race/weight/height/whatever specific insults that don't allude to anything other than *them* being obnoxious/rude/selfish/inconsiderate/whatever else... :)

[Blake]

You again. Try and stay with the thread. The smell of smoke, not the smoke itself.

stay with the poster. lionfan said it not me.

although I'd like to know exactly how smokers aren't treated as fairly as obese people

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

:rolleyes

seems like you are the one with the can opener

That's odd considering I didn't make the original post and you were going to post that same type of response regardless of what I wrote.

[Blake]

That's odd considering I didn't make the original post and you were going to post that same type of response regardless of what I wrote.

:lol oh ok. Next time just post my response for me and save me the trouble

[SpursWoman]

In any case, the bigger you get, the harder it is to do anything about it ... because of the actual physical limitations put on your muscles, bones & joints, not to mention your heart, lungs and everything else when you get to be so big.

There's got to be a point, though, where the other people living with them need to start bringing them some salads instead of cheeseburgers. They are committing manslaughter or assisted suicide at the very least, IMO.

[DarkReign]

stay with the poster. lionfan said it not me.

although I'd like to know exactly how smokers aren't treated as fairly as obese people

The Litmus Test:

Which group qualifies under the ADA of 1990?

a. Smokers
b. Obese people
c. Anorexic people
d. none of the above

Choose between societal level of tolerance, in that which below group is tolerated more than the others:

a. Smokers
b. Obese people
c. Anorexic people
d. none of the above

Of the below scenarios, which is most likely to garner the appropriate attention of voters/government to require a law against its occurence?

a. Smokers smoking in public places
b. Obese people taking up too much space in public places
c. Anorexic people being...well, anorexic
d. none of the above

I could go on, and on, and on, and on...

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I should since you're pretty easy to read, Blake.

[DarkReign]

They are committing manslaughter or assisted suicide at the very least, IMO.

:lmao

Could you imagine the prosecution's argument at trial?

While I see what youre saying, under that sort of logic, a family member who knows about a drug addiction of a loved one is guilty as well.

And the drug dealer is guilty as well.

The worst someone would face is negligence, but even thats an extreme stretch of the law, IMO. But I am no lawyer.

[SpursWoman]

:lmao

Could you imagine the prosecution's argument at trial?

While I see what youre saying, under that sort of logic, a family member who knows about a drug addiction of a loved one is guilty as well.

And the drug dealer is guilty as well.

The worst someone would face is negligence, but even thats an extreme stretch of the law, IMO. But I am no lawyer.

Oh, no ... I know it would be ridiculous, but seriously, I don't get these people. We watch those shows about those kinds of people all the time. Most of them are bed-bound, and loved ones BRING them the shit. WTF? You'd think there has to be some kind of crime there. :fro

[DarkReign]

Oh, no ... I know it would be ridiculous, but seriously, I don't get these people. We watch those shows about those kinds of people all the time. Most of them are bed-bound, and loved ones BRING them the shit. WTF? You'd think there has to be some kind of crime there. :fro

Yeah, I can see your point. But that is more an ethical violation than a lawful one. Unless of course said family member is forcing them to eat unhealthy or force-feeding it directly. Now I would think we were in murder/manslaughter territory.

But again, this would also include spouses who directly contribute to their spouses' alcoholism. Shit, I personally know of a case where a spouse wouldnt let the glass get half empty in an attempt to....help along the inevitable "drink himself to death".

Really, theyre just complicit with someone's will to die. When you cant get out of bed anymore, whether thru lack of discipline or personal degredation, you signed your own death warrant.

[Trainwreck2100]

LMAO fat people

[Blake]

The Litmus Test:

Which group qualifies under the ADA of 1990?

a. Smokers
b. Obese people
c. Anorexic people
d. none of the above

Choose between societal level of tolerance, in that which below group is tolerated more than the others:

a. Smokers
b. Obese people
c. Anorexic people
d. none of the above

Of the below scenarios, which is most likely to garner the appropriate attention of voters/government to require a law against its occurence?

a. Smokers smoking in public places
b. Obese people taking up too much space in public places
c. Anorexic people being...well, anorexic
d. none of the above

I could go on, and on, and on, and on...


lame.

plenty of 'healthy enough' smokers and plenty of smokers walking around with an oxygen tank.

It's also pretty easy for a smoker to put out his cigarette in a public place. Pretty hard for a fat guy to drop a couple hundred lbs in a public place.

lemme know when you need a forklift to get your smoking ass out of bed and then you might have an argument.

Nobody feels sorry for you because it's a fast fix to get rid of the smoke. Put out cigarette. Done.

[DarkReign]

lame.

plenty of 'healthy enough' smokers and plenty of smokers walking around with an oxygen tank.

It's also pretty easy for a smoker to put out his cigarette in a public place. Pretty hard for a fat guy to drop a couple hundred lbs in a public place.

lemme know when you need a forklift to get your smoking ass out of bed and then you might have an argument.

Nobody feels sorry for you because it's a fast fix to get rid of the smoke. Put out cigarette. Done.

Yeah, but what about anorexic people? They dont count now?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

With the percentage of morbidly obese growing at an alarming rate, it's only a matter of time before legislation is introduced to curb the growing waistlines in the US.

[beefanus]

Social Security checks. You must remember, if they are obese the government considers them disabled. Thus, they dont work, they get a check every month and a nurse to come wash their ass twice a week for free.
thats fucking retarded just give them a god damn treadmill and duck tape their hands to it!!

[Blake]

Yeah, but what about anorexic people? They dont count now?

I don't really know much about anorexic people and what their status is with the ADA. Maybe they have a real gripe.

Smokers don't have any gripes. Just because you light up a cigarette on occasion doesn't mean you should get the handicap plates.

[Blake]

With the percentage of morbidly obese growing at an alarming rate, it's only a matter of time before legislation is introduced to curb the growing waistlines in the US.

foods no. certain ingredients probably.

[DarkReign]

Fat people don't have any gripes. Just because you shovel food down your whole doesn't mean you should get the handicap plates.

Do you see the circular, exclusionary point here, yet?

(lol, btw, I dont want handicap stickers)

[Dr. Gonzo]

Social Security checks. You must remember, if they are obese the government considers them disabled. Thus, they dont work, they get a check every month and a nurse to come wash their ass twice a week for free.

You can thank the Americans with Disabilities Act, by Bush Sr, for the ease of getting a handicap sticker, making sure every public building is wheelchair accesible and that fat people are no longer over-eating gluttons, but people with a disease which causes disability, which means SS payments.

I'd repeal the ADA in a heartbeat.

Also, a lot of these people have enablers that help them pay for the food.

[SpursWoman]

Do you see the circular, exclusionary point here, yet?

(lol, btw, I dont want handicap stickers)


What physically debilitating illness(es) are caused by smoking? Emphyzema? Maybe some forms of cancer? That "over-weight lady" could easily been that "lady with serious emphyzema" ... wouldn't she still have qualified for a handicap spot?

[Sportcamper]

I am seriously going on a diet…I never realized the distain some folks have for fat people!

[Blake]

Do you see the circular, exclusionary point here, yet?

(lol, btw, I dont want handicap stickers)

no. If a 180 lb smoker and a 180 lb big mac destroyer both can walk easily enough, then neither should have the tag.

If a 180 lb smoker has to carry around an oxygen tank around while a 500 lb person needs a wheelchair, I don't see why both don't get the sticker. Same thing with an anexoric person that is too weak to stand up.

it's also not like obese people haven't had their share of societal problems. Seems to me that airlines have charged people for 2 seats if they are over a certain weight limit.

[DarkReign]

What physically debilitating illness(es) are caused by smoking? Emphyzema? Maybe some forms of cancer? That "over-weight lady" could easily been that "lady with serious emphyzema" ... wouldn't she still have qualified for a handicap spot?

Cmon, dont be disingenuous on purpose.

Are you trying to tell me that I shouldnt automatically assume the worst about that obese person with a handicap sticker? That he/she suffers from some ailment that makes him/her fat?!

Seriously?! What, do they have diabetes, too? Emphyzema? Caused by what, pray tell? Couldnt be the extra 80 lbs their chest has to inflate every time they breathe, or the extra strain on the heart, no?

Look, Im not stupid. I do know that certain thyroid problems cause massive weight gain. I know that.

But lets not pretend for even one fucking second that 31% of Americans suffer from some other problem that causes obesity (http://www.americansportsdata.com/obesitystats.asp). Or that 63% in this country are overweight for some other ailment.

No, the truth hurts. Most of those 31% cant stop eating, plain and simple. Just like smoking. Its an addiction, not a disease. 63% of the males in this country cant see their junk without a mirror. Thats pathetic and troubling.

Yet we coddle them, tell them everything is going to be OK and that it isnt their fault. Youre just enabling their continued decline in health with that mindset.

Smoking decreased nearly overnight the moment it became socially unacceptable to do so (cancer is a big reason for that change...maybe a little Hollywood though). Maybe if fat people were as villified as smokers, the obesity rate would drop as well. But I guess food and nicotine arent on the same scale of addiction.

Oh, wait.... (http://www.lycaeum.org/drugwar/hening.html)


The risk of addiction following any use, the prevalence of frequent use among current users, and the occurance of APA, DSM-defined dependence among current users ranges from about 2 to 10 times greater for cigarettes than for these other drugs (Anthony et al. 1994, Exp.Clin. Psychopharm.; NIDA's Monitoring the Future Survey, FDA in Fed Register, Aug. 11, 1995; Surg. Gen. 1988).

Just an observation.

[DarkReign]

no. If a 180 lb smoker and a 180 lb big mac destroyer both can walk easily enough, then neither should have the tag.

If a 180 lb smoker has to carry around an oxygen tank around while a 500 lb person needs a wheelchair, I don't see why both don't get the sticker. Same thing with an anexoric person that is too weak to stand up.

it's also not like obese people haven't had their share of societal problems. Seems to me that airlines have charged people for 2 seats if they are over a certain weight limit.

I think youre losing my point about the relation between the two.

It isnt about smokers getting a handicap sticker. Not even close.

Its about one addiction being treated completely differently from the other with no basis in medical science.

Smokers are at the whim of society's proclivites, while the other is enabled/tolerated by members of society and supported by tax dollars.

TO BE CLEAR, neither should be helped along by tax dollars. I think fat people who cant stop eating are no better or no different than smokers.

Society doesnt seem to think so. Thats what I am pointing out.

[desflood]

I am seriously going on a diet…I never realized the distain some folks have for fat people!
People do get nasty about it. I was walking to my car in a store parking lot one night when a carload of teenage girls pulled up beside me and started yelling, "Yeah, walk it off, Fatty!" Hardly original, but mean enough for what it was.

Now I've outed myself as a fat girl :lol

[Blake]

No, the truth hurts. Most of those 31% cant stop eating, plain and simple. Just like smoking. Its an addiction, not a disease. 63% of the males in this country cant see their junk without a mirror. Thats pathetic and troubling.

Yet we coddle them, tell them everything is going to be OK and that it isnt their fault. Youre just enabling their continued decline in health with that mindset.



so you are saying that we shouldn't coddle the dude holding up that voice vibrator and the oxygen tank either, right? No tag for you.

see the circular logic here?

[Blake]

I think youre losing my point about the relation between the two.

It isnt about smokers getting a handicap sticker. Not even close.

Its about one addiction being treated completely differently from the other with no basis in medical science.

Smokers are at the whim of society's proclivites, while the other is enabled/tolerated by members of society and supported by tax dollars.

TO BE CLEAR, neither should be helped along by tax dollars. I think fat people who cant stop eating are no better or no different than smokers.

Society doesnt seem to think so. Thats what I am pointing out.

I think you never got the point that there is no relation between the two

[mrsmaalox]

I'm sure most of us wonder "How can they do that to themselves?" in regard to both smokers and the obese. There are underlying psychological/psychiatric reasons for both. The smokers as well as other addicts have a compulsion for their action; I don't think anyone would argue the fact that house-bound morbidly obese exhibit clinical depression. We may not might like it or accept it, but both are legitimate medical diagnoses.
As far as the handicapped plates go, neither group is awarded them merely for being smokers or obese. When either group exhibits the complications of their disorders (smokers=emphysema, COPD and obese=hypertension, diabetes) they can get those plates! :)

[SpursWoman]

Cmon, dont be disingenuous on purpose.

Are you trying to tell me that I shouldnt automatically assume the worst about that obese person with a handicap sticker? That he/she suffers from some ailment that makes him/her fat?!

Seriously?! What, do they have diabetes, too? Emphyzema? Caused by what, pray tell? Couldnt be the extra 80 lbs their chest has to inflate every time they breathe, or the extra strain on the heart, no?

Look, Im not stupid. I do know that certain thyroid problems cause massive weight gain. I know that.

But lets not pretend for even one fucking second that 31% of Americans suffer from some other problem that causes obesity (http://www.americansportsdata.com/obesitystats.asp). Or that 63% in this country are overweight for some other ailment.

No, the truth hurts. Most of those 31% cant stop eating, plain and simple. Just like smoking. Its an addiction, not a disease. 63% of the males in this country cant see their junk without a mirror. Thats pathetic and troubling.

Yet we coddle them, tell them everything is going to be OK and that it isnt their fault. Youre just enabling their continued decline in health with that mindset.



No, you came across to me as being indignant that obese people were getting handicap tags (special treatment) solely because of their own self-destructive behavior and shouldn't be coddled, and I simply pointed out that it could just as easily have been someone suffering a handicap from smoking--another self-destructive behavior. I think you just over-analyized what I said. Depending on their level of handicap, they'd both be eligible. Nothing more, nothing less.

And yes there is a horrific stigma for being obese, or even somewhat overweight. They just haven't found a way to legislate it yet because people have to eat to survive. People don't need to smoke to survive, so I don't think that was as difficult to address.

I quit smoking not long after the price of cigarettes jumped up another dollar or so in January 2007 ... if they outlawed dollar menus, there's a good chance that could have a positive impact on America's health, too. :lol

[DarkReign]

so you are saying that we shouldn't coddle the dude holding up that voice vibrator and the oxygen tank either, right? No tag for you.

Man, you are stuck on handicap tags. Handicap tags dont mean shit to me, ok?

Its the fact that severe obesity is considered a disability. Do you realize what that means?

That means you and me can go on an eating binge of epic proportions, blow up to 400 lbs, medically approve your "bad back" condition (caused by your weight probem) and receive SS dollars as compensation for your hardship.

Thats wrong.


see the circular logic here?

No, I dont. Because youre...still...talking...about....handicap....sti ckers.

[DarkReign]

No, you came across to me as being indignant that obese people were getting handicap tags (special treatment) solely because of their own self-destructive behavior and shouldn't be coddled, and I simply pointed out that it could just as easily have been someone suffering a handicap from smoking--another self-destructive behavior. I think you just over-analyized what I said. Depending on their level of handicap, they'd both be eligible. Nothing more, nothing less.

I guess my point wasnt lost on just Blake. Handicap stickers mean nothing to me and have nothing to do with my argument. See above post.

But yes, I agree that any handicap should get a sticker, regardless if its self-inlficted or not.

The handicap sticker was more a reference to the ADA of 1990. It made getting a handicap sticker incredibly easy. Which, in turn, made it easier for abusive citizens to gain "disabled" status for various ailments one could not previously. Obviously, being classified as disabled allows the citizen to receive SS payments to support their disabled lifestyle. Guess I should have just said that instead of alluding to it.

The handicap sticker was just the start of my argument, not the end-all be-all its being made out to be.


And yes there is a horrific stigma for being obese, or even somewhat overweight. They just haven't found a way to legislate it yet because people have to eat to survive. People don't need to smoke to survive, so I don't think that was as difficult to address.

Good point. But with the recent legislation to ban smoking in this country, dont be surprised if obese/fat people arent on the docket soon.


I quit smoking not long after the price of cigarettes jumped up another dollar or so in January 2007 ... if they outlawed dollar menus, there's a good chance that could have a positive impact on America's health, too. :lol

Heh, yeah. I am actually in the process of quitting. But just because I am trying to doesnt mean I hold some bias against current smokers or feel that their legal practice should be outlawed in adult only establishments (not saying you were, to be clear).

[ashbeeigh]

I just hope DarkReign isn't against the ADA for people that are really disabled, like people who have cerebral palsy, wounded veterans and legally blind people. I'm all for closing the loop holes, I see your point here, but taking about the ADA just because obese people abuse it doesn't make it right.



/endrant

[DarkReign]

I just hope DarkReign isn't against the ADA for people that are really disabled, like people who have cerebral palsy, wounded veterans and legally blind people. I'm all for closing the loop holes, I see your point here, but taking about the ADA just because obese people abuse it doesn't make it right.

/endrant

Whoa whoa whoa....I am in complete agreement with you.

[SpursWoman]

I just hope DarkReign isn't against the ADA for people that are really disabled, like people who have cerebral palsy, wounded veterans and legally blind people. I'm all for closing the loop holes, I see your point here, but taking about the ADA just because obese people abuse it doesn't make it right.

/endrant


Those disabilities aren't typically from self-destructive behavior, so I doubt he is.

[DarkReign]

I think you never got the point that there is no relation between the two

I believe your government will soon beg to differ with you on tha subject.

[Blake]

That means you and me can go on an eating binge of epic proportions, blow up to 400 lbs, medically approve your "bad back" condition (caused by your weight probem) and receive SS dollars as compensation for your hardship.

Thats wrong.


you can also smoke like a chimney and receive the same SS dollars for your hardship if you develop lung cancer

the license plates are just part of it.

Again, I'm not sure why you are saying that smokers have it rougher than obese people.

[ploto]

I know I got in the discussion here once before with people about the fact that it does seem to be socially acceptable to go up to a thin person and comment on their "lack of weight"- to tell them they need to eat something- or that they must be anorexic, but it is not socially acceptable to tell an overweight person to quit eating.

[Blake]

I believe your government will soon beg to differ with you on tha subject.

I'm not sure what you mean by that but ok.

Not sure how you can be the one to discriminate who deserves ADA and who doesn't.

[Blake]

I know I got in the discussion here once before with people about the fact that it does seem to be socially acceptable to go up to a thin person and comment on their "lack of weight"- to tell them they need to eat something- or that they must be anorexic, but it is not socially acceptable to tell an overweight person to quit eating.

yeah, you don't see too many overweight Vicky Secret models

[mogrovejo]

you can also smoke like a chimney and receive the same SS dollars for your hardship if you develop lung cancer

the license plates are just part of it.

Again, I'm not sure why you are saying that smokers have it rougher than obese people.

They don't. I'm a smoker and I have no idea why should other people pay for my health care, let alone subsidize me because I contracted a disability. Same for non-smokers, fats and retards.

Anyway, the rationale usually provided is that tobacco is heavily taxed, unlike food - therefore there is no kind of free-ride, as long-term smokers generally pay everything they eventually get from the government if their health is affected.

[DarkReign]

Same for non-smokers, fats and retards.

What? :nope


Anyway, the rationale usually provided is that tobacco is heavily taxed, unlike food - therefore there is no kind of free-ride, as long-term smokers generally pay everything they eventually get from the government if their health is affected.

Now this I agree with.

[CuckingFunt]

While I agree a person trying to lose weight thru excercise and dieting should be encouraged and not ridiculed, why do think our "species is so judgemental"?

Could it be because its evolutionarily advantageous? It is said that a person's left-to-right-side symmetry plays a very unique part in what we as a species find attractive. That it is a sign of good genes.

No. I don't think that's it. If evolutionary advantage were the cause of our judgment, men would be drooling over size 10s and their child bearing hips (as in the Monroe days), rather than ridiculing them in favor of anorexic waifs.

If anything, I think we're judgmental because it is socially advantageous. Power is often established and/or maintained by identifying a different, and lesser, "them."


I also find it hard to believe you hold the same standard to your everyday interactions. I am sure youre fine with obese/fat people, until they say something nasty to you, or cut you off in traffic...I am quite sure "fat bitch" has slipped your lips more than once in your tolerant life of self-induced-conditions.

I honestly would be surprised if I've ever even thought "fat bitch" in such a situation. And I'm not saying that because I think I'm perfect or completely free of judgmental tendencies -- I'm not -- but because it's really not my go-to response.


Dont get high and mighty about how judgemental we as a species are when its perfectly normal, healthy and proactive to be so. Especially when it comes to handing out pity-for-a-dime to those who suffer from conditions well within their sphere of control.

Normal, healthy, and proactive? I disagree on all three counts. I think such judgment is considered normal only because people seldom challenge that idea, not because it is inherent to our nature as human beings. I think it's far more healthy for us all, collectively and individually, to focus on being the best people we can be, rather than to spend our lives fixated on the personal choices made by others. And I think that being judgmental, especially to the point of ridicule, is incredibly divisive, which I think is a huge hindrance to proactivity.

Furthermore, it's naive to assume that people who are obese are always in that condition due to circumstances within their control. I think it's incredibly damaging to remove personal responsibility in the case of addiction, regardless the substance in question, so I don't support the thought that someone who compulsively overeats is doing so because they are physiologically incapable of not compulsively eating. However, there can be many legitimate health issues that lead to weight gain. For example, I have a very close friend who eats healthfully and exercises regularly, and always has, but due to health complications and prescription medications (many of which she's been on since early childhood) is usually hovering around the 300 lb. mark.


Nobody is crying for me on the sidewalks because I smoke, but I get shit from numerous people about the smell (for instance).

Why is it you feel there shouldnt be the same indignation for an obese person wearing spandex, with a bike seat crammed half-way into their colon, riding down a rocky surface visually detailing the icky details of poor life choices?

As long as youre not approaching her/him and saying as much (for no good reason mind you), its perfectly acceptable behavior, IMO. I, as a smoker, am treated with less respect than that.

I don't think that disrespecting a different segment of the population is the proper reaction to being disrespected yourself.


But is it because smoking is a villified sub-section of our society and therefore allowed to be ridiculed because it is socially accpetable to do so?

Well, since the percentage of smokers has dropped dramatically since it become socially unaccetable to be so, maybe we as a society should consider obesity to be socially unacceptable.

Worked for smoking, right? Obesity is arguably more harmful to one's health than smoking, right? Should be treated the same, right?

Of course not. Smokers arent afforded "handicap" status because they cant breathe. Fat people are because their lungs, knees, ankles and heart cant handle a walk form their car to their front door.

Again, this is all making the assumption that shoving ice cream and hamburgers down your throat all day is the only way to become obese. It's just not. And, even if it was, I don't think it's ever okay for someone to be ridiculed or ostracized for their personal decisions or lifestyle choice.


My point is, dont get so high on yourself as to think youre above humanity's judgements. Its a tall order to seperate yourself from the pack of humans who surround you. Nearly impossible.

At no point did I get high on myself or think I was above being judgmental. In fact, if you'll notice, I specifically worded my complaint as being disgusted by how judgmental WE are as a society. I try my very, very hardest not to make snap judgments, but I know for a fact that I'm not always successful. Just because I may do something, however, doesn't make it any less disgusting.

[whottt]

I pretty much like fat people...most of them are unpretentious and down to earth having been harassed about their weight most of their lives. This is not always true...but more often than not in my experience. That said...if they piss me off probably the first thing I will go after is their weight.

But I honestly don't care if someone is fat...it's their life and if people enjoy eating they should go ahead and do it...as you only live once.


Somepeople really have no choice...as they are born th at way. It's just like being born poor, rich, ugly, beautiful or stupid or smart...if it's something they can't really control, it's pretty stupid to make a big deal about it.

I mean being born a dog or cat pretty much sucks as far as I can tell...does that mean we should give dogs and cats shit over being dogs and cats and make them feel bad about it? It's not like they had a choice about it.

[CuckingFunt]

I think youre losing my point about the relation between the two.

It isnt about smokers getting a handicap sticker. Not even close.

Its about one addiction being treated completely differently from the other with no basis in medical science.

Smokers are at the whim of society's proclivites, while the other is enabled/tolerated by members of society and supported by tax dollars.

TO BE CLEAR, neither should be helped along by tax dollars. I think fat people who cant stop eating are no better or no different than smokers.

Society doesnt seem to think so. Thats what I am pointing out.

The problem with comparing obesity to smoking is that you get ridiculed for being a smoker when you make the decision to engage in the activity of smoking a cigarette in public. Someone who is obese is ridiculed for being obese when they exist in public.

That's a pretty big difference.

[CuckingFunt]

I know I got in the discussion here once before with people about the fact that it does seem to be socially acceptable to go up to a thin person and comment on their "lack of weight"- to tell them they need to eat something- or that they must be anorexic, but it is not socially acceptable to tell an overweight person to quit eating.

It depends on your definition of socially acceptable.

I think pretty much everyone would agree that it's tacky to walk up to an overweight person and tell them to stop eating, but considering the things I've heard said to some of my friends and family members who are a bit on the chunky (or more than chunky) side, and the riotous laughter and high fives that followed these comments, I think we're at a point where it IS pretty socially acceptable.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

You again. Try and stay with the thread. The smell of smoke, not the smoke itself.

Sorry, fail. You cannot separate the smoke from the smell - the smoke IS the smell.

What I can't understand is how people get so fat? Sure, if you have hypothyroidism (which quite a few women get at some point or other), I can understand, but if it's not medical how do you put on 100lbs without realising that you are fucking your life up and endangering your health? Is morbid obesity a slow method of suicide for these people?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

My other observation here is that the obesity epidemic is a symptom of the general social malaise that has overtaken modern Western societies - hyper-consumption with no thought given to the long-term consequences.

50 years ago, in our grandparents' generation, people actually had a thing called "restraint", and they considered certain behaviours "wasteful" and "greedy". That ethic has largely disappeared, to the detriment of us all, and the planet.

[whottt]

Sorry, fail. You cannot separate the smoke from the smell - the smoke IS the smell.

What I can't understand is how people get so fat? Sure, if you have hypothyroidism (which quite a few women get at some point or other), I can understand, but if it's not medical how do you put on 100lbs without realising that you are fucking your life up and endangering your health? Is morbid obesity a slow method of suicide for these people?

Could be an anachronistic survival mechanism...but it some cases it's just their metabolism...they have to work a lot harder or eat a lot less to stay underweight...and really what is the point, just so some aholes won't be offended?

[whottt]

My other observation here is that the obesity epidemic is a symptom of the general social malaise that has overtaken modern Western societies - hyper-consumption with no thought given to the long-term consequences.

50 years ago, in our grandparents' generation, people actually had a thing called "restraint", and they considered certain behaviours "wasteful" and "greedy". That ethic has largely disappeared, to the detriment of us all, and the planet.

Complete BS really...in many cultures ancient and otherwise, being overweight is a sign of success and wealth.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Complete BS really...in many cultures ancient and otherwise, being overweight is a sign of success and wealth.

Um, no, I know about the cultures you are referring to (particularly in Africa and the Pacific), but those obese people were a very small percentage of the general population, namely the aristocracy, which is a very different thing from half of the population being overweight or obese which is where your country and mine find themselves today. The average Joe in the societies you refer to was working his arse off just to feed himself, so there was no way they'd become obese.

Of course obesity is a symptom of heedless hyper-consumption, how can it not be?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Could be an anachronistic survival mechanism...but it some cases it's just their metabolism...they have to work a lot harder or eat a lot less to stay underweight...and really what is the point, just so some aholes won't be offended?

What I'm saying has nothing to do with being offended - I am not offended by obese people.

What is the point? The point is that obesity significantly increases your risk of dying prematurely from heart disease, a range of cancers, etc. The point is also that obesity cuts down the range of activities you can take part in. When climbing a set of stairs gives you conniptions (and you're not over 60), something is wrong.

[whottt]

Um, no, I know about the cultures you are referring to (particularly in Africa and the Pacific), but those obese people were a very small percentage of the general population, namely the aristocracy, which is a very different thing from half of the population being overweight or obese which is where your country and mine find themselves today. The average Joe in the societies you refer to was working his arse off just to feed himself, so there was no way they'd become obese.

Of course obesity is a symptom of heedless hyper-consumption, how can it not be?

I'd say it's still a sign of success...probably 40 million or so Africans that would love be in that condition as oppposed to starving.

Having a lot of overweight people just means you have a lot of food, you can't pull it off if you're destitute.

[whottt]

What I'm saying has nothing to do with being offended - I am not offended by obese people.

What is the point? The point is that obesity significantly increases your risk of dying prematurely from heart disease, a range of cancers, etc. The point is also that obesity cuts down the range of activities you can take part in. When climbing a set of stairs gives you conniptions (and you're not over 60), something is wrong.

Yeah but...if all of a sudden there's no food, they'll be better suited to survive and traditionally(and outside of the West) that's a lot more realistic and pressing danger. Survival mechanism...a lot of animals are the same way.

You think Africans give a shit abut heart disease and cancer?

And it's human nature to expand and and consume...

[TDMVPDPOY]

most of these ppl are on welfare, htf can they feed themselves with that kind of money and gain that much weight, theres not much you can buy with that fortnightly paycheck....

[CuckingFunt]

Sorry, fail. You cannot separate the smoke from the smell - the smoke IS the smell.

What I can't understand is how people get so fat? Sure, if you have hypothyroidism (which quite a few women get at some point or other), I can understand, but if it's not medical how do you put on 100lbs without realising that you are fucking your life up and endangering your health? Is morbid obesity a slow method of suicide for these people?

Depression. Insecurity. Addiction. Fear, maybe? You and I may see the logic that fit = healthy = good, but that doesn't mean that everyone else does.

If you're talking about someone who has battled weight since childhood, it can be difficult to completely change your lifestyle. Even if you know it's the smart choice.

If you're talking about someone who has a history of being healthy and in decent shape but suddenly puts on excessive weight (for non-medical reasons, as stipulated in your question), it is likely that there are emotional issues behind it. Perhaps food replaces smoking, or another addiction. Or depression and insecurity can convince someone that they don't care about their health and appearance, or don't deserve the happiness that comes with a healthy lifestyle. I can actually think of two people (a relative, and my friend's husband) who, I suspect, subconsciously keep the weight on as a method of mitigating their social anxiety issues -- the weight acts as a built in excuse both to avoid social situations and to dismiss criticism or rejection when meeting new people (they don't like me because I'm fat, which means they're shallow and not worth my time, so who cares?).

[EricB]

I love how people like Ruff look down on people that are overweight.

[baseline bum]

My other observation here is that the obesity epidemic is a symptom of the general social malaise that has overtaken modern Western societies - hyper-consumption with no thought given to the long-term consequences.

50 years ago, in our grandparents' generation, people actually had a thing called "restraint", and they considered certain behaviours "wasteful" and "greedy". That ethic has largely disappeared, to the detriment of us all, and the planet.

In your grandparents' generation you didn't have Ronald McDonald bribing kids with cheap toys to eat his chemical-filled fried shit. You have to think the need for two-income households now is a major reason fast food has gained such a foothold in the American diet; you go to work 9 hours, spend 2 more sitting in traffic, and then you're going to spend 1-2 hours cooking dinner every night on top of that?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

You always have an interesting perspective whottt, although I totally disagree with you, and so does logic. :)


I'd say it's still a sign of success...probably 40 million or so Africans that would love be in that condition as oppposed to starving.

Having a lot of overweight people just means you have a lot of food, you can't pull it off if you're destitute.

You're way off track here. Of course people would rather have plentiful food than starve (I never suggested they wouldn't), but does that mean they all gorge themselves and fatten themselves up until they can hardly move? No.

Obesity on a population level as we are now seeing is a modern invention - it hasn't happened before, that's why the health authorities are struggling to address it. It arises out of eating too much, and too much highly processed food in particular, combined with a generally more sedentary life.


Yeah but...if all of a sudden there's no food, they'll be better suited to survive and traditionally(and outside of the West) that's a lot more realistic and pressing danger. Survival mechanism...a lot of animals are the same way.

You think Africans give a shit abut heart disease and cancer?

And it's human nature to expand and and consume...

Dude, I am an evolutionary biologist and human ecologist by training, and your arguments are spurious.

Those most able to survive under what circumstances? A fit person is far more likely to survive both in a situation where he has to kill or find his own food (more range, more likelihood of successful hunting), or a normal modern setting (because of the higher death rates amongst the obese) - obesity does not AID survival in humans. In other words, what you're saying makes no sense.

As for this: "it's human nature to expand and and consume". Sure it is, but massive overconsumption causes problems - on a personal level it kills you through obesity-related illness, and on a global scale it dooms future generations by stripping the planet of useful resources.

Anyway, your original point: "in many cultures ancient and otherwise, being overweight is a sign of success and wealth" is true and I never disagreed with it, but it misses the point. We are talking about the obesity epidemic on the level of an entire population, not the fact that it signifies success for a small number of people (ie. the aristocrats) in some cultures.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Depression. Insecurity. Addiction. Fear, maybe? You and I may see the logic that fit = healthy = good, but that doesn't mean that everyone else does.

If you're talking about someone who has battled weight since childhood, it can be difficult to completely change your lifestyle. Even if you know it's the smart choice.

If you're talking about someone who has a history of being healthy and in decent shape but suddenly puts on excessive weight (for non-medical reasons, as stipulated in your question), it is likely that there are emotional issues behind it. Perhaps food replaces smoking, or another addiction. Or depression and insecurity can convince someone that they don't care about their health and appearance, or don't deserve the happiness that comes with a healthy lifestyle. I can actually think of two people (a relative, and my friend's husband) who, I suspect, subconsciously keep the weight on as a method of mitigating their social anxiety issues -- the weight acts as a built in excuse both to avoid social situations and to dismiss criticism or rejection when meeting new people (they don't like me because I'm fat, which means they're shallow and not worth my time, so who cares?).

Thanks for that, good post. I guess I just figured that at some point people heading for obesity would realise what they were doing and stop, but I can see that there are many reasons why that doesn't happen.


I love how people like Ruff look down on people that are overweight.

No, I don't. I wonder how they got that way, just like I wonder about all sorts of predicaments people, including myself, get themselves into. I'm trying to understand other states of mind, because I know most people don't think like me.


In your grandparents' generation you didn't have Ronald McDonald bribing kids with cheap toys to eat his chemical-filled fried shit. You have to think the need for two-income households now is a major reason fast food has gained such a foothold in the American diet; you go to work 9 hours, spend 2 more sitting in traffic, and then you're going to spend 1-2 hours cooking dinner every night on top of that?

Yup, the pace of life, 2-income families, media and disposable food are all part of the problem.

Life is faster today and a lot of the time people used to use for things like cooking is now spent otherwise. Sad really. Cooking can be a very social activity, but fewer people now have the time and energy to do it.

[johnsmith.]

I love how people like Ruff look down on people that are overweight.

Kinda like you look down on people who are out of work?

[GoGatos.]

Dude, I am an evolutionary biologist and human ecologist by training, and your arguments are spurious.


Really? all this time I thought you was drug free, born again, tree hugging soccer Mom!

I say Ruff will have his meltdown on page 5 :tu

[DarkReign]

Sorry, fail. You cannot separate the smoke from the smell - the smoke IS the smell.

Oh yes you can. Sorry, fail.

When I have a cigarette outside then come inside for a meeting, no one is exposed to second-hand smoke. Theyre exposed to the smell of someone who just smoked.

[DarkReign]

I honestly would be surprised if I've ever even thought "fat bitch" in such a situation. And I'm not saying that because I think I'm perfect or completely free of judgmental tendencies -- I'm not -- but because it's really not my go-to response.

Well, youre better than me and most, I guess.


Normal, healthy, and proactive? I disagree on all three counts. I think such judgment is considered normal only because people seldom challenge that idea, not because it is inherent to our nature as human beings. I think it's far more healthy for us all, collectively and individually, to focus on being the best people we can be, rather than to spend our lives fixated on the personal choices made by others. And I think that being judgmental, especially to the point of ridicule, is incredibly divisive, which I think is a huge hindrance to proactivity.

I am saying at a subconscious level and even consciously, we as a species when choosing a mate or even whom we choose to associate with and allow into our lives is uniquely predicated on certain physical attriubutes. Obviously, you have a more developed sense of "blindness". I am sure that was not easy for you.

But all the scientific studies show the same thing...right-to-left-side symmetry is a facet of beauty no matter what culture you were born in. Those with eyes too close, or too far apart are less attractive than those with a normal spacing. Size of hands, feet and ears in relation to their body.

This extends the globe over, regardless of culture (ok, I am sure there is some weird island tribe that loves (idk) big-footed women, but theyre the exception and not even close to a rule).

You may not consciously recognize these attributes, but you absolutely are categorizing them, admit that or not. Because everyone does.


Furthermore, it's naive to assume that people who are obese are always in that condition due to circumstances within their control. I think it's incredibly damaging to remove personal responsibility in the case of addiction, regardless the substance in question, so I don't support the thought that someone who compulsively overeats is doing so because they are physiologically incapable of not compulsively eating. However, there can be many legitimate health issues that lead to weight gain. For example, I have a very close friend who eats healthfully and exercises regularly, and always has, but due to health complications and prescription medications (many of which she's been on since early childhood) is usually hovering around the 300 lb. mark.

See, now that doesnt jive with me. I understand what youre saying and a certain person in my famly has some thyroid issue and has since junior high.

I readily admit there are certain medical conditions that lead to extreme weight gain, I know that.

But I will repeat the same thing I said to another, are you being disingenuous on purpose?

63% of Americans are overweight. 31% are obese. No, thyroid problems and medication doesnt account for that many people.

You know and I know...shit everyone knows what the problem is. Some people cant put the fork down. Go down the list of overweight people you know and ask yourself "Which is due to medication/thyroid/something else, and which cant stop eating bon-bons and chocalate ice cream?"

If you name 3 with a medical condition, I'd be surprised. I can name one and I know my share of overweight/obese people.

I can assume that about any stranger I see because statistics say they have no excuse, that they have an addicition to food. It is what it is. With that assumption, 80-90% of the time I will be right. Its no damn different than calling a crack-addict a "crackhead" and thats socially acceptable. But boy, call a fat person "fat", look out!


I don't think that disrespecting a different segment of the population is the proper reaction to being disrespected yourself.

I am not disrespecting overweight people. I am just surprised how much pity and interest we as a society have for people with ZERO self control. To the point where someone is thought shallow for pointing out the fat person wearing spandex (spandex...seriously? not sweatpants?) is a disgusting sight to behold (which is easily remedied by looking away, I admit, but just because said person decided spandex looked good on her truck-of-an-ass doesnt mean I should suffer that in line at the grocery store).

It is! No one said I have to look, but then again, no one said they made spandex in size XXXL either. What were the spandex people thinking?


Again, this is all making the assumption that shoving ice cream and hamburgers down your throat all day is the only way to become obese.

Youre right, it isnt the only way. But it is by far the most common. 31% of Americans were obese in 2000. Do you think that number has gone up or down since? Medication/Thyroid/Whatever, or because Americans eat shit for food and some cant stop?


And, even if it was, I don't think it's ever okay for someone to be ridiculed or ostracized for their personal decisions or lifestyle choice.

Remove the underlying reference to "obesity/overwight people" in this above sentence and replace it with "smokers" and see how drastically the opinion changes.


At no point did I get high on myself or think I was above being judgmental. In fact, if you'll notice, I specifically worded my complaint as being disgusted by how judgmental WE are as a society. I try my very, very hardest not to make snap judgments, but I know for a fact that I'm not always successful. Just because I may do something, however, doesn't make it any less disgusting.

Well, I dont strive for society to be blind to addictions of any kind. Or that we try and embrace and encourage every kid and every person. If youre fat, you know it, I know it, lets leave it at that. Say something stupid, get cocky, cut me off in traffic or otherwise piss me off and I'll pull your card on that in an instant.

I dont spare people's feelings because I dont really give a shit about their feelings. I have plenty of overweight friends (I live in Michigan, cant go too far without a couple lurking around a Dunkin Donuts) and family. Until they are serious about their condition, I wont be either.

I am a smoker. I am trying to quit (finally). I have my addictions, I have my vices, my problems, my shortcomings. I am not overly attractive or "buff", I am not the smartest, I am not the richest and I am nearly bald at (almost) 29. But I embrace my deficiencies and laugh at them, like my father did, like my friends do.

If someone gets butt-hurt because their fatass cant touch their toes, see their junk or walk from their car to the front door without nearly passing out, so be it. I stand my share of criticism for my shortcomings, which inspires me to be better (quitting smoking, it isnt acceptable anymore). I will stumble and fail, and so will others.

But just embracing habits that are detrimental to your health, or a loved one's health, isnt healthy or proactive. Obviously, I am little more supportive and constructive with friends and family, but they still catch their share of hell from me and others (I have noticed other overweight people are less forgiving than me). A few have lost weight/quit smoking/stopped drinking so much/went to rehab/started excercising/whatever. Its that friendly ridicule that truly inspires a person to change, IMO. Not overlooking their glaring condition and accepting them wholesale, only to watch them suffer diabetes/heart failure/etc. Youre enabling them and absolving yourself of blame. I think thats sort of weak on our part, that we didnt have the guts to state the obvious.

[desflood]

Its that friendly ridicule that truly inspires a person to change, IMO.
Let me clue you in. What it really does is make them sad and resentful.

[DarkReign]

Let me clue you in. What it really does is make them sad and resentful.

Not in my experience, sorry.

[FreeMason]

My other observation here is that the obesity epidemic is a symptom of the general social malaise that has overtaken modern Western societies - hyper-consumption with no thought given to the long-term consequences.

50 years ago, in our grandparents' generation, people actually had a thing called "restraint", and they considered certain behaviours "wasteful" and "greedy". That ethic has largely disappeared, to the detriment of us all, and the planet.

This is America bitch! Restraint? Restraint!? We talkin' bout restraint!? Restraint is for the Ethiopians!

[desflood]

Not in my experience, sorry.
Could you clarify? Does this mean that you don't feel hurt when people ridicule you, or that you don't think anybody else feels hurt when you ridicule them, in your "friendly" way?

[SpursWoman]

Not in my experience, sorry.


Then your experience must be very limited, then. If that were the case, all you'd have to do to get America to lose weight is just go fucking insult everyone. I'm sure all of the 12 year olds and the jack sommersets of the world would be thrilled.

In my own, personal experience it's more likely to be damaging to self-esteem and exacerbate depression in those with that particular affliction. I really don't know too many people that respond well to negative criticism.

[Blake]

Not in my experience, sorry.

friendly ridicule doesn't make someone sad or resentful but instead inspires a person to change?

wow. you need to get out more.

[CuckingFunt]

Well, youre better than me and most, I guess.



I am saying at a subconscious level and even consciously, we as a species when choosing a mate or even whom we choose to associate with and allow into our lives is uniquely predicated on certain physical attriubutes. Obviously, you have a more developed sense of "blindness". I am sure that was not easy for you.

But all the scientific studies show the same thing...right-to-left-side symmetry is a facet of beauty no matter what culture you were born in. Those with eyes too close, or too far apart are less attractive than those with a normal spacing. Size of hands, feet and ears in relation to their body.

This extends the globe over, regardless of culture (ok, I am sure there is some weird island tribe that loves (idk) big-footed women, but theyre the exception and not even close to a rule).

You may not consciously recognize these attributes, but you absolutely are categorizing them, admit that or not. Because everyone does.



See, now that doesnt jive with me. I understand what youre saying and a certain person in my famly has some thyroid issue and has since junior high.

I readily admit there are certain medical conditions that lead to extreme weight gain, I know that.

But I will repeat the same thing I said to another, are you being disingenuous on purpose?

63% of Americans are overweight. 31% are obese. No, thyroid problems and medication doesnt account for that many people.

You know and I know...shit everyone knows what the problem is. Some people cant put the fork down. Go down the list of overweight people you know and ask yourself "Which is due to medication/thyroid/something else, and which cant stop eating bon-bons and chocalate ice cream?"

If you name 3 with a medical condition, I'd be surprised. I can name one and I know my share of overweight/obese people.

I can assume that about any stranger I see because statistics say they have no excuse, that they have an addicition to food. It is what it is. With that assumption, 80-90% of the time I will be right. Its no damn different than calling a crack-addict a "crackhead" and thats socially acceptable. But boy, call a fat person "fat", look out!



I am not disrespecting overweight people. I am just surprised how much pity and interest we as a society have for people with ZERO self control. To the point where someone is thought shallow for pointing out the fat person wearing spandex (spandex...seriously? not sweatpants?) is a disgusting sight to behold (which is easily remedied by looking away, I admit, but just because said person decided spandex looked good on her truck-of-an-ass doesnt mean I should suffer that in line at the grocery store).

It is! No one said I have to look, but then again, no one said they made spandex in size XXXL either. What were the spandex people thinking?



Youre right, it isnt the only way. But it is by far the most common. 31% of Americans were obese in 2000. Do you think that number has gone up or down since? Medication/Thyroid/Whatever, or because Americans eat shit for food and some cant stop?



Remove the underlying reference to "obesity/overwight people" in this above sentence and replace it with "smokers" and see how drastically the opinion changes.



Well, I dont strive for society to be blind to addictions of any kind. Or that we try and embrace and encourage every kid and every person. If youre fat, you know it, I know it, lets leave it at that. Say something stupid, get cocky, cut me off in traffic or otherwise piss me off and I'll pull your card on that in an instant.

I dont spare people's feelings because I dont really give a shit about their feelings. I have plenty of overweight friends (I live in Michigan, cant go too far without a couple lurking around a Dunkin Donuts) and family. Until they are serious about their condition, I wont be either.

I am a smoker. I am trying to quit (finally). I have my addictions, I have my vices, my problems, my shortcomings. I am not overly attractive or "buff", I am not the smartest, I am not the richest and I am nearly bald at (almost) 29. But I embrace my deficiencies and laugh at them, like my father did, like my friends do.

If someone gets butt-hurt because their fatass cant touch their toes, see their junk or walk from their car to the front door without nearly passing out, so be it. I stand my share of criticism for my shortcomings, which inspires me to be better (quitting smoking, it isnt acceptable anymore). I will stumble and fail, and so will others.

But just embracing habits that are detrimental to your health, or a loved one's health, isnt healthy or proactive. Obviously, I am little more supportive and constructive with friends and family, but they still catch their share of hell from me and others (I have noticed other overweight people are less forgiving than me). A few have lost weight/quit smoking/stopped drinking so much/went to rehab/started excercising/whatever. Its that friendly ridicule that truly inspires a person to change, IMO. Not overlooking their glaring condition and accepting them wholesale, only to watch them suffer diabetes/heart failure/etc. Youre enabling them and absolving yourself of blame. I think thats sort of weak on our part, that we didnt have the guts to state the obvious.

You and I fundamentally disagree on this. To the point that I wouldn't even know where to start in arguing some of the points made in this post.

I'll leave it at that.

[Blake]

My other observation here is that the obesity epidemic is a symptom of the general social malaise that has overtaken modern Western societies - hyper-consumption with no thought given to the long-term consequences.

50 years ago, in our grandparents' generation, people actually had a thing called "restraint", and they considered certain behaviours "wasteful" and "greedy". That ethic has largely disappeared, to the detriment of us all, and the planet.

ditto on what BB said about why we have become a fast food nation, but my grandparents were around during a time when restraint wasn't really a choice......it was a necessity.

We take it for granted that we can hop in the car and get whatever we need from HEB or WalMart at a reasonable cost. What do eggs cost......about a buck for dozen? My grandmother gave piano lessons for eggs back in the 30s.

[Blake]

You and I fundamentally disagree on this. To the point that I wouldn't even know where to start in arguing some of the points made in this post.

I'll leave it at that.

I gave up about 3 posts ago.

I think people like DR miss out on things that happen in the real world.

[DarkReign]

I gave up about 3 posts ago.

I think people like DR miss out on things that happen in the real world.

I miss nothing. You dont know me and I dont know you.

I think your views on smoking and obesity are indicative of a society gone soft. A pussified nation of whiney little health coinscious morons, more concerned with what other people do than what themselves do.

I think the parallel between smoking and obesity are obvious, you disagree.

Thats fine. Legislate away...riiiiiiight up until a majority sees one of your activities/leisures/habits as something other than acceptable.

It may not happen to you personally, but it will happen to someone you love, and you'll cry about it then and not understand how it went this far.

Flame away.

[Blake]

I miss nothing. You dont know me and I dont know you.

After reading your posts such as:


I think your views on smoking and obesity are indicative of a society gone soft. A pussified nation of whiney little health coinscious morons, more concerned with what other people do than what themselves do.

I think you have an apparent disconnect with people in real world settings. It's easy to kick back and call a fat person a pussy when it's not you that's fat....

oh but wait.........calling a fat person a "pussy" is not only ok in your book, but it's actually helpful.


I think the parallel between smoking and obesity are obvious, you disagree.

Thats fine. Legislate away...riiiiiiight up until a majority sees one of your activities/leisures/habits as something other than acceptable.

It may not happen to you personally, but it will happen to someone you love, and you'll cry about it then and not understand how it went this far.

Flame away.

I think people with disabilities deserve help no matter how they got to that point.

If you aren't 100% sure why someone is fat, then you need to shut the hell up

[DarkReign]

Then your experience must be very limited, then. If that were the case, all you'd have to do to get America to lose weight is just go fucking insult everyone. I'm sure all of the 12 year olds and the jack sommersets of the world would be thrilled.

Wait, so let me get this straight. I should do my best impression of Dr Phil when dealing with a glutton?

What do you call a crack addict? Crackhead
What do you call a meth addict? Methhead
What do you call an alcoholic? Boozehound, myriad of other names
What do you call a smoker? idk, really. A smoker? Not very harsh.
A person who smokes weed? A person who is homeless?

I mean, idealistically, I am quite fond of your approach. But I can guarantee in the time you have been posting here, I could do a search a find some derogatory term you used to describe someone about something that falls right in line with me thinking obesity is no better or worse than any other addiction.

Really, there is probably only one person who has term here that I can think of that probably never said in ill-word on this board about anyone in a generality (and I am not too sure about that or interested to find out).

It is an addiction (eating that is). Why is it we separate obesity from the other addictions? I am only guessing, but is it because it is such a widespread problem that so many close to us are obviously guilty of, that it becomes politically correct to not label them the addict they are?

Fine. If thats the reason, then I understand other's position. But that doesnt mean I have to conform to the requisite pity I should have for an addict of a self-induced nature.

No quarter given, none expected.


In my own, personal experience it's more likely to be damaging to self-esteem and exacerbate depression in those with that particular affliction. I really don't know too many people that respond well to negative criticism.

Well...thats....well, its completely opposite of where I come from. I have known a certain individual who has fluctuated weight throughout his life. Wait, make that two individuals.

One female, one male. One would go from severely overweight to well-conditioned physique (male). The other from overweight to slim and trim (female).

Their reasons for constantly falling backwards? Peer pressure. Their entire family is overweight and if they tried to better themselves, they were....ridiculed isnt the right word (too harsh), but I think you can come up with something better and more fitting. It was either jealousy or resentment from their family. So they'd conform to their familial expectations and start the bad eating habits they so desperately wanted to change.

Those are the same people who "positively reinforced" their weight problems as children, embraced them for it and told them to ignore the BS in school they took because of it. Only to turn their back on them the moment they did something to change it.

Positive reinforcement works, I get that. I also never said I walk around insulting fat people for kicks. Never said that. Im the nicest mf-er in public and private that you could meet. But to roll with us, you have to drop your pretenses because in our circle, your every aspect of existence is fair game for some friendly jabbing.

My balding, my skinniness, my lack of willpower...all the insecurities I hold have been busted on me for as long as I can remember (which makes ST funny in some ways).

Cant change MPB. Cant change skinniness (eat to live, not the other way around, high metabolism too). But I dont get butt-hurt that someone finds my condition funny, I'll find something about them to equally razz them.

Point is, I think youre misinterpreting what I say about friendly jabbing at someone's weight. Like I said, I dont give overweight people dirty looks, or insult them for no good reason (really take a lot to piss me off). If I came across that way, then its my fault.

But to pretend like it doesnt exist or ignore the obvious eating habits of an overweight person and just keep your mouth shut because its the polite thing to do is a completely foreign idea to me (of people you know/love). You get called on it. Works for us.

Is it always pleasant? Of course not. How are you going to politely and positively tell someone that theyre an alcoholic? Intervention? Yeah right. No, you tell them in no uncertain terms over the 2-way phone with a pane of glass sitting between you and them, while their sitting in jail for their 3rd drunk driving.

Its hrash, its not very Dr Phil. But its effective.

[DarkReign]

I think you have an apparent disconnect with people in real world settings. It's easy to kick back and call a fat person a pussy when it's not you that's fat....

oh but wait.........calling a fat person a "pussy" is not only ok in your book, but it's actually helpful.

Not true. Didnt say that. See, thats called an assumption, something you dont do.


If you aren't 100% sure why someone is fat, then you need to shut the hell up

Ha. Right, because youre above such assumptions. Seriously, what you said there sounds like the right answer, but its far from reality.

We all make assumptions about everything. You might not assume anything about an obese person, but there are other aspects in your life that you do. You just dont say it out loud in a group setting like a forum.

Dont pretend youre better than me or anyone else. Youre not "above it all" and nor is anyone else in this thread. Youre not a moral paragon and you never will be. Its impossible.

The only difference is that you dont categorize obesity under the same blanket of addiction that I do. Thats fine. Thats relevant. But please dont try and reach too far with what you think I am or am not. Youre liable to pull something.

[Blake]

Im the nicest mf-er in public and private that you could meet. But to roll with us, you have to drop your pretenses because in our circle, your every aspect of existence is fair game for some friendly jabbing.

Point is, I think youre misinterpreting what I say about friendly jabbing at someone's weight. Like I said, I dont give overweight people dirty looks, or insult them for no good reason (really take a lot to piss me off). If I came across that way, then its my fault.


Its hrash, its not very Dr Phil. But its effective.

I think your interpretation of friendly jabbing is coming across pretty clearly.

[SpursWoman]

If you aren't 100% sure why someone is fat, then you need to shut the hell up


Pretty much.

[SpursWoman]

Wait, so let me get this straight. I should do my best impression of Dr Phil when dealing with a glutton?


No, all *you* really need to do is shut the fuck up and mind your own business. I know it's hard, but it is definitely possible.

[Blake]

Not true. Didnt say that. See, thats called an assumption, something you dont do.


A pussified nation of whiney little health coinscious morons, more concerned with what other people do than what themselves do.

oh ok. So the people like Dr Phil that try to help other without your "friendly jabbing" method is a pussy?

Did I misinterpret that?



Ha. Right, because youre above such assumptions. Seriously, what you said there sounds like the right answer, but its far from reality.

We all make assumptions about everything. You might not assume anything about an obese person, but there are other aspects in your life that you do. You just dont say it out loud in a group setting like a forum.

Dont pretend youre better than me or anyone else. Youre not "above it all" and nor is anyone else in this thread. Youre not a moral paragon and you never will be. Its impossible.

The only difference is that you dont categorize obesity under the same blanket of addiction that I do. Thats fine. Thats relevant. But please dont try and reach too far with what you think I am or am not. Youre liable to pull something.

I never said I'm better than you but if you want to "make that assumption", be my guest.

I could care less about you personally. What you are posting on here is ridiculous.

To simply throw obesity under "a blanket of addiction" is stupid.

[SpursWoman]

I'm just wondering if there are actually fat people in the world who have no idea that they are fat, and who will never know they are fat unless *you* tell them?

I think some people confuse "civic duty" with being an obnoxiously rude prick. :lol

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I had a neighbor named Albert (the kids in the 'hood called him "fat Albert") who was always a bit overweight, but became increasingly heavy after his mom and dad passed away within a year and a half of each other.

He was 40-ish, was divorced, and was living with his elderly parents. He owned a small auto repair shop.

After his parents died his went from being a fairly normal, heavy-set guy, to being really heavy. He reached a point where he couldn't work on cars very easily and actually hired a guy to work on the cars while he "managed" the shop, which amounted primarily to sitting around playing on the computer.

He continued to gain weight, his business closed and he ended up staying at his house all day...which is when the morbid obesity kicked in. Eventually some neighbors started to bring him food whenever he couldn't get out on his own. One of my older neighbors would bring him 24 piece buckets of chicken, a dozen rolls and a gallon of ice cream for a typical meal. Finally he reached a point where he wasn't getting out of bed at all. The same neighbor who was his primary food source finally called an ambulence because he became very worried about Albert's health. Albert was so infuriated and embarrassed when the paramedics showed up that he had a heart attack as they were trying to remove him from his home and passed away on the way to the hospital.

I talked to him once or twice about getting some counseling, but I never really pushed him to do it. I even knew a good counselor but I never wrote the number on a piece of paper and said "here, call her". I was always nice to him, but I never went out of my way to try to help him get better or feel better about himself. In fact I was kind of critical of his lack of caring for himself, in spite of his mental suffering. I was openly critical to my neighbor who would bring him tons of food. I just kind of watched this guy kill himself over the course of about 4 years, and had a very judgmental attitude about his condition.

I don't go through life with a ton of things I regret, but one of my big ones was my attitude towards my neighbor, Albert, and the fact that I didn't do more to try to help him get better. I judged him way too harshly. I could have/should have done a lot more for him.

[DarkReign]

I'm just wondering if there are actually fat people in the world who have no idea that they are fat, and who will never know they are fat unless *you* tell them?

I think some people confuse "civic duty" with being an obnoxiously rude prick. :lol

Who said I was talking to strangers about their weight?

Or are you trying to say I have no business pointing out the obvious with friends and family?

*sigh* Whatever.

[SpursWoman]

Who said I was talking to strangers about their weight? *sigh* Whatever.


That was a random remark that crosses my mind anytime this type of subject comes up.


Although I will respond to this:



But I can guarantee in the time you have been posting here, I could do a search a find some derogatory term you used to describe someone about something that falls right in line with me thinking obesity is no better or worse than any other addiction.


You would be hard-pressed to find anything even remotely close to me posting a personal insult to anyone. And I don't mean calling whatever asshole cut me off in traffic a douchebag, but personally insulting someone? Won't happen. My mama actually took the time to teach me compassion and sensitivity ... or restraint at the very least.

And I have been posting here since day 1, so you probably don't want to waste that much time. :lol

[DarkReign]

You would be hard-pressed to find anything even remotely close to me posting a personal insult to anyone. And I don't mean calling whatever asshole cut me off in traffic a douchebag, but personally insulting someone? Won't happen. My mama actually took the time to teach me compassion and sensitivity ... or restraint at the very least.

And I have been posting here since day 1, so you probably don't want to waste that much time. :lol

You misunderstand. I was talking about generalizations or assumptions or a derogatory remark about a certain sub-section of people.

Never called anyone addicted to crack a "crackhead" ever, huh? I doubt that, but I'll take your word for it.

[Joe Esposito]

You know what I've heard about fat people?

They will take pictures of themselves from weird angles so they don't look so fat on the internet.

[Les Grossman]

If you aren't 100% sure why someone is fat, then you need to shut the hell up

Are you fat?

[SpursWoman]

You know what I've heard about fat people?

They will take pictures of themselves from weird angles so they don't look so fat on the internet.


:lol @ saying something like that under a troll name with 3 posts.


Afraid someone might think the real you is an asshole? :lol :lol

[Blake]

Are you fat?

no, but I could also say I'm Brad Pitt in disguise.

No personal agenda here.

[FromWayDowntown]

As a child, I was basically a husky kid who was athletic. Despite the fact that I played multiple sports -- and played them well -- including cardio-intensive sports like soccer and swimming, I was always the heaviest kid in my class even if not always the tallest. As I got into high school, I remained one of the biggest kids in the class and that meant that I got shuttled into playing positions like offensive line. To play the position well, I was told, required that I get even bigger. I complied, because I wanted to excel. I gained weight but maintained a pretty substantial degree of athleticism (at a fairly substantial weight for a high school kid in the late 80's, I ran sub 5.0 40's and 6 minute miles, and played varsity baseball, too). I did well enough on the football field to be recruited to play in college; again, upon rising a level, my coaches advised that success on the field would necessitate gaining weight and again, I complied. By the time that I finished college, I was at or around 300 pounds, but strong and athletic.

But when college ended, so too did my daily athletic training. While many of my teammates were blessed with constitutions that allowed the added weight to melt off of them, nothing I did made that weight go away. While I am basically height-weight proportional, the added weight that playing football asked of me never went away. While I remain fairly athletic, I also qualify among the obese in society. No matter what I do, fitness-wise, the likelihood is pretty high that my best end point in weight loss terms is to fall simply into the clincally "overweight" category -- and that's a long way off.

In relative terms, compared to those who are truly morbidly obese, I have things easy. But a thread like this one makes me think (again) that it might not have taken much for my life to have gone just wrong enough to tip the balance toward morbid obesity, too. I empathize with those who reach that point and understand that with the right biological factors, some particularlized conditioning in youth, and a small bit of psychological (or physical) trauma, morbid obesity can easily sneak up on a person.

I'd fundamentally disagree that there's any societal value in riduculing the obese (or anyone who suffers from an addictive problem of that nature). I actually hope that I'm more prone to compassion and sensitivity because that's how I was raised and because that's how I'd prefer to be treated. The obese are, frankly, among the easiest sufferers of addictive/physiological disorders to spot -- they can't hide that problem by choosing not to make it known; they don't require any degree of significant investigation to uncover their woes. And that, I think, adds to the stigma and, in turn, the depressive qualities that follow obesity. Those who are obese don't, I think, need anyone to advise them that they've got a problem.

But unlike many other addictive disorders, I think many values in broader society tend to more readily promote obesity. The cost of cigarettes is relatively prohibitive; you have to find a drug dealer, come up with money, and avoid police detection in acquiring drugs. But the cost of foods that promote obesity is not prohibitive and the availability of such foods at bargain prices is not merely widespread -- it's thrust in our faces!

In thinking about this thread, I was reminded of a recent commercial that advertised that some family sized fried chicken meal could be obtained less expensively at KFC than in a grocery store. And if you stop to think about it, on the whole, less wholesome dietary choices tend to be the cheaper alternatives at virtually any meal. A 20-piece fried chicken dinner or a large pizza from a big box producer costs a whole lot less than salmon filets, a whole grain rice, and spinach.

Choosing to eat healthy foods tends, at least initially, to put a serious dent in someone's wallet -- far more costly than perpetuating a diet of things that have little or no nutritional benefit and substantial dietary downside.

People ask in this thread how the morbidly obese continue to eat as they do, and I think that it actually becomes more cost-effective to eat in that fashion than to try to make healthy choices. That's true even in terms of the quantities in which food is purchased. Buy more and it costs less in relative terms -- almost everywhere. The bigger bag of potato chips has a per volume discount in pricing.

To an extent, I think this goes to some of what Ruff said earlier. I don't know that I'd call it hyperconsumerism necessarily, but it's clear that the packaging and advertising of the easiest forms of nourishment make purchasing and consumption of mass quantities easier and, in some cases, more desireable than making more nutritious and less gluttonous choices.

My part of the story is germane to any of that only because I feel lucky to have never gone from obese to morbidly obese. But I don't think it's a long fall. And I don't think that prevention of that fall is something that can be aided by ridicule or scorn. Frankly, while I think there's no panacea, I do think that societal awareness of the problem would be a substantial first step towards its solution. I'm not a huge fan of governmental intervention in the private lives of individuals, but I do wonder if a marketplace that can suggest that gluttony is good, might benefit society as a whole to recalibrate its aims.

In the end, there are lots of deleterious personal choices involved in any problem like obesity, but I'm not sure it's absolutely true that those who suffer from such problems can be simply shamed into making different choices.

[Joe Esposito]

:lol @ saying something like that under a troll name with 3 posts.


Afraid someone might think the real you is an asshole? :lol :lol

Not really. Trolls got to start somewhere.

Its weird that you felt the need to respond, though. Eat up, chubs.

[The Reckoning]

for some reason when i binge on fast food it makes me lose weight...

:depressed

[DarkReign]

But to pretend like it doesnt exist or ignore the obvious eating habits of an overweight person and just keep your mouth shut because its the polite thing to do is a completely foreign idea to me (of people you know/love). You get called on it. Works for us.

It doesnt say strangers. This goes for any sort of addiction, including food/eating. People that suffer from depression obviously "compensate" differently. So because one does heroin/drinks alcohol/smokes dope/pops pills and is ridiculed for it, people that eat away their problems are somehow different?

I dont get the distinction and I dont see the dividing line between the groups at all. Yet, its pretty obvious I am in the stark minority on the subject. Can anyone explain that fundamental difference to me?

Seriously.

[Blake]

It doesnt say strangers. This goes for any sort of addiction, including food/eating. People that suffer from depression obviously "compensate" differently. So because one does heroin/drinks alcohol/smokes dope/pops pills and is ridiculed for it, people that eat away their problems are somehow different?

I dont get the distinction and I dont see the dividing line between the groups at all. Yet, its pretty obvious I am in the stark minority on the subject. Can anyone explain that fundamental difference to me?

Seriously.

what are you, 12?

I don't know any mature adult that ridicules someone for having doping or drinking problems.

[DarkReign]

what are you, 12?

I don't know any mature adult that ridicules someone for having doping or drinking problems.

Man, youre constantly being a short-sighted emo jackass about this subject.

I am trying to argue from a societal perspective. Moreover, the way some addictions are villified and others are not, when there is no line of demarcation (that I can see) that says theyre different enough to warrant it.

Now, you may not hold these prejudices (such as thinking a crack-addict is a crackhead and the like), but society certainly does.

My question is, why?

[romad_20]

It doesnt say strangers. This goes for any sort of addiction, including food/eating. People that suffer from depression obviously "compensate" differently. So because one does heroin/drinks alcohol/smokes dope/pops pills and is ridiculed for it, people that eat away their problems are somehow different?

I dont get the distinction and I dont see the dividing line between the groups at all. Yet, its pretty obvious I am in the stark minority on the subject. Can anyone explain that fundamental difference to me?

Seriously.


Not that it matters, but I'm with you on the subject. I don't see the distinction that's being drawn between being addicted to food and being addicted to anything else.


I'm not even sure what the argument is about in this thread anymore. Are we arguing that fat people who put themselves in that situation shoudn't get disability or are we arguing about the way fat people are treated or both. Maybe something different?

[The Reckoning]

skinny, anglo smokers are an endangered species

[Blake]

I'm not even sure what the argument is about in this thread anymore. Are we arguing that fat people who put themselves in that situation shoudn't get disability or are we arguing about the way fat people are treated or both. Maybe something different?

:lol

I'm not even sure any more.

All I know for certain is that DR likes to throw friendly jabs at people regarding their deficiencies

[DarkReign]

I'm not even sure any more.

You were never sure where it started much less where it is right now.


All I know for certain is that DR likes to throw friendly jabs at friends/family regarding their deficiencies

FIFY

[Blake]

You were never sure where it started much less where it is right now.



I know where it started. Somewhere you jumped in with smoking addiction = obesity.

Brilliant.

[romad_20]

:lol

I'm not even sure any more.

All I know for certain is that DR likes to throw friendly jabs at people regarding their deficiencies

Well, I do understand his points about ribbing people who are your friends about certain things. It is a little easier to address issues like that through humor but still get your point across and I think that is totally acceptable, especially if you taking your own medicine in stride.

I do hate that people make so many excuses for something well in their control, especially when they show no sign of wanting to change. Its even more frustrating that the general population buys into those excuses. I think that may be where he's coming from but I don't want to put words into people's mouths.

[Blake]

Well, I do understand his points about ribbing people who are your friends about certain things. It is a little easier to address issues like that through humor but still get your point across and I think that is totally acceptable, especially if you taking your own medicine in stride.

I do hate that people make so many excuses for something well in their control, especially when they show no sign of wanting to change. Its even more frustrating that the general population buys into those excuses. I think that may be where he's coming from but I don't want to put words into people's mouths.

I can see ribbing your friend about being a bad driver.

Can't really see ribbing your friend about being fat.

[SpursWoman]

Well, I do understand his points about ribbing people who are your friends about certain things. It is a little easier to address issues like that through humor but still get your point across and I think that is totally acceptable, especially if you taking your own medicine in stride.

I do hate that people make so many excuses for something well in their control, especially when they show no sign of wanting to change. Its even more frustrating that the general population buys into those excuses. I think that may be where he's coming from but I don't want to put words into people's mouths.

Does this also apply to doing this to people you DON'T know? I mean, thinking you're being humorous and all?

[romad_20]

Does this also apply to doing this to people you DON'T know? I mean, thinking you're being humorous and all?

As in going up to people I don't know and giving them shit about being fat? I don't make it a habit to go up to people I don't know, period. Much less talking to them about being fat. So no.



Can't really see ribbing your friend about being fat.

Well, it really depends for me. If they had an accident and couldn't move for months or were on medication that made them gain weight, then no. If they were eating too much and chugging down sodas all day, then I would.

[Blake]

Well, it really depends for me. If they had an accident and couldn't move for months or were on medication that made them gain weight, then no. If they were eating too much and chugging down sodas all day, then I would.

since the topic is morbidly obese people I figured that's what we are talking about

[romad_20]

since the topic is morbidly obese people I figured that's what we are talking about

To tell you the truth, I would probably stop being their friend if they got morbidly obese. It would be no different than someone who couldn't stop using meth. At some point, not only is it your problem, it transfers to me because its gotten so out of hand. Since they can't go through on getting help, I would end the relationship, because its not a healthy one.

I guess I'm not an overly sympathetic person towards people who screw things up that are in their control. Out of their control is another story....

[Blake]

To tell you the truth, I would probably stop being their friend if they got morbidly obese. It would be no different than someone who couldn't stop using meth. At some point, not only is it your problem, it transfers to me because its gotten so out of hand. Since they can't go through on getting help, I would end the relationship, because its not a healthy one.

at least youre honest

[CuckingFunt]

Ha. Right, because youre above such assumptions. Seriously, what you said there sounds like the right answer, but its far from reality.

We all make assumptions about everything. You might not assume anything about an obese person, but there are other aspects in your life that you do. You just dont say it out loud in a group setting like a forum.

Dont pretend youre better than me or anyone else. Youre not "above it all" and nor is anyone else in this thread. Youre not a moral paragon and you never will be. Its impossible.

The only difference is that you dont categorize obesity under the same blanket of addiction that I do. Thats fine. Thats relevant. But please dont try and reach too far with what you think I am or am not. Youre liable to pull something.

No. The difference is that when I make those assumptions -- and, yes, in certain circumstances, despite my genuine intention to avoid doing so, I occasionally make snap judgments -- I don't justify my doing so with the rationale that it is somehow inherent to my nature as a human being to be a jerk. Or with the idea that since everyone else is a judgmental asshole, it's okay and understandable for me to be one, too.

[romad_20]

at least youre honest

I wouldn't want to be enabler, you know? If I just accept what you're doing, especially if its effecting me and others who know you, I would feel like I was perpetuating the situation.

[Nobody]

I was always very athletic as a kid. When I married, I was 195lbs and 7% bodyfat. After many injuries and a marriage that sucked the life out of me, I gained weight. I got to the point I avoided family functions - even thanksgiving, because i was horrified for people to see me that way. Yet, it was not enought to make me do something about it. Depression was the fuel for my over eating. I made it to 270lbs and was as miserable as a person could be. My marriage continued to suck and just added to my bad eating and sedentary life. One day in a Video Teleconference at work, I saw myself on the screen... sure i'd seen myself every day in the mirror, but this was the first time I "saw" myself. I knew I was fat... but seeing myself when I wasn't expecting to do so, was a slap in the face. I dedicated my life to fitness and ended up at 190 8% bodyfat. Odd, it did nothing to make my marriage better, so she is now gone :) ...

I took my new found love for fitness and became a certified trainer. I kept my day job and train people at 4am or on my lunch hour. Not because I enjoy getting up early, but i enjoy sharing what i've learned with people and helping them make lifestyle changes and improving their quality of life. If the person makes bank, I charge a high rate, if they don't make much, I practically do it for free. I'm not getting rich, but when i get an email from a client screaming they lost 5lbs, it's worth it.

As a former obese person, I feel I can confidently claim, they are not happy. But it's a downward spiral that is hard to stop. You gain 10 lbs... 20 lbs... go on a diet for a few weeks and lose 3lbs and can't even see a difference. So you quit. Now you're up 25, 30, 35lbs. Try a diet lose a few and can't see a difference... and it goes on and on.

The day i woke up, i thought "WTF did i do to myself?" Making fun of or ridiculing folks isn't the solution... neither is just saying that fat ass just needs to put the burger down. There are emotional issues driving a lot of the obesity - just as there is with people that do drugs, wake up in the morning swearing they'll never do it again, then are sticking a needle in their arm later that evening. Taxing, legislation, and ridicule are not the answers. Educating children at a young age on proper eating and exercise and how to deal with emotional stress, other than turning to food, is a start. And ridiculing an over weight person who is actually exercising is horrifying. But on a lighter note, i agree, overweight people should not wear spandex :)

[CuckingFunt]

In relative terms, compared to those who are truly morbidly obese, I have things easy. But a thread like this one makes me think (again) that it might not have taken much for my life to have gone just wrong enough to tip the balance toward morbid obesity, too. I empathize with those who reach that point and understand that with the right biological factors, some particularlized conditioning in youth, and a small bit of psychological (or physical) trauma, morbid obesity can easily sneak up on a person.

I'd fundamentally disagree that there's any societal value in riduculing the obese (or anyone who suffers from an addictive problem of that nature). I actually hope that I'm more prone to compassion and sensitivity because that's how I was raised and because that's how I'd prefer to be treated. The obese are, frankly, among the easiest sufferers of addictive/physiological disorders to spot -- they can't hide that problem by choosing not to make it known; they don't require any degree of significant investigation to uncover their woes. And that, I think, adds to the stigma and, in turn, the depressive qualities that follow obesity. Those who are obese don't, I think, need anyone to advise them that they've got a problem.

But unlike many other addictive disorders, I think many values in broader society tend to more readily promote obesity. The cost of cigarettes is relatively prohibitive; you have to find a drug dealer, come up with money, and avoid police detection in acquiring drugs. But the cost of foods that promote obesity is not prohibitive and the availability of such foods at bargain prices is not merely widespread -- it's thrust in our faces!

In thinking about this thread, I was reminded of a recent commercial that advertised that some family sized fried chicken meal could be obtained less expensively at KFC than in a grocery store. And if you stop to think about it, on the whole, less wholesome dietary choices tend to be the cheaper alternatives at virtually any meal. A 20-piece fried chicken dinner or a large pizza from a big box producer costs a whole lot less than salmon filets, a whole grain rice, and spinach.

Choosing to eat healthy foods tends, at least initially, to put a serious dent in someone's wallet -- far more costly than perpetuating a diet of things that have little or no nutritional benefit and substantial dietary downside.

People ask in this thread how the morbidly obese continue to eat as they do, and I think that it actually becomes more cost-effective to eat in that fashion than to try to make healthy choices. That's true even in terms of the quantities in which food is purchased. Buy more and it costs less in relative terms -- almost everywhere. The bigger bag of potato chips has a per volume discount in pricing.

To an extent, I think this goes to some of what Ruff said earlier. I don't know that I'd call it hyperconsumerism necessarily, but it's clear that the packaging and advertising of the easiest forms of nourishment make purchasing and consumption of mass quantities easier and, in some cases, more desireable than making more nutritious and less gluttonous choices.

My part of the story is germane to any of that only because I feel lucky to have never gone from obese to morbidly obese. But I don't think it's a long fall. And I don't think that prevention of that fall is something that can be aided by ridicule or scorn. Frankly, while I think there's no panacea, I do think that societal awareness of the problem would be a substantial first step towards its solution. I'm not a huge fan of governmental intervention in the private lives of individuals, but I do wonder if a marketplace that can suggest that gluttony is good, might benefit society as a whole to recalibrate its aims.

In the end, there are lots of deleterious personal choices involved in any problem like obesity, but I'm not sure it's absolutely true that those who suffer from such problems can be simply shamed into making different choices.

I agree with this completely. Especially with the idea that the slide from a few extra pounds, to a little chubby, to overweight, to obese, etc. probably happens a lot easier than many of us think. It's something that concerns me greatly in my own life, actually.

Since I was a kid, I've been blessed with luck in many areas. I have a natural fondness for activity, and have always enjoyed walking, hiking, swimming, etc. I also have a natural fondness for healthy foods. I snack like a rabbit, and even as a child, will pick carrot sticks over potato chips 10 times out of 10. When I was four, I fell in love with dance and was a very serious dancer until I was 20. I also loved swimming and was on the swim team in high school. Through all of that, I've developed a fast enough metabolism and healthy enough habits that I've been somewhat able to maintain my weight/figure without really trying.

However...

It has literally been without trying. At all. I am horribly undisciplined, HATE working out, never monitor my calories or pay attention to what I'm eating. I don't intentionally make smart decisions. Ever. At age 30, I'm becoming increasingly aware of the fact that this may all catch up to me, sooner rather than later.

I've already noticed that my asthma, a lifelong problem, has gotten increasingly worse since I stopped dancing regularly. My college campus, lovingly nicknamed Hills & Stairs University, often leaves me huffing and puffing, even without a weight problem. I know for a fact that, if I allow myself to get into worse shape, my decreased lung capacity would be prohibitive to my getting back into shape.

Furthermore, I am one of these "live to eat" people. I don't overeat, by any means. In fact, my one food rule is that I never starve myself and never stuff myself. But I love food. I love good food. My snacking preferences are healthy, but my meal preferences are rich and indulgent. I am definitely a good Sicilian girl, in that respect. In addition, I'm an incredibly busy person with little time or energy to cook for myself. When pressed for time, I eat a lot of fast crap (not fast food necessarily, but fast meals), even though I don't particularly like it.

While I'd like to think that I will continue to be/live healthfully, I've got a lot going against me as I get older. Weight problems are common in my family at a certain age (the only person I can think of who hasn't battled obesity starting in her 40s is damn near anorexic and, therefore, not the greatest of examples), diabetes is common, asthma is common and already something I battle. Between that and the fact that I've been so undisciplined for so long, I would not be surprised if weight was an issue that suddenly and unavoidably snuck up on me. I've been a glutton in a skinny body for so long that I really don't know that I'd be able to abandon my bad habits when/if the pounds start showing.

[DarkReign]

No. The difference is that when I make those assumptions -- and, yes, in certain circumstances, despite my genuine intention to avoid doing so, I occasionally make snap judgments -- I don't justify my doing so with the rationale that it is somehow inherent to my nature as a human being to be a jerk. Or with the idea that since everyone else is a judgmental asshole, it's okay and understandable for me to be one, too.

Hey, whatever. Works for you, I guess. Where Im from, sensitivity doesnt go very far. DrPhil and the his ilk are reserved for WestCoasters whereas here personal responsibility trumps everything.

I hold addicts of all kinds personally responsible for themselves. Doesnt mean I hate them or despise them (or randomnly call them names to complete strangers on the street as you, Blake and SW seem to keep repeating until its true), but my pity meter doesnt register much.

If that makes me a cruel/bad person, I dont give a shit. I put my opinion out there and most here thinks it stinks. Fine, I'll live with that.

Doesnt change the fact that obesity is like any other addiction. But since the affliction is so widespread and close to home, we coddle it instead of looking at it without bias.

Sounds to me like a couple of stories in this thread had a "moment of clarity" which I am sure you know is common with alcoholics. But I am sure thats the only similarity they share...

^V^V^V^V^V^V^V^V^V

Quick transition...

When did we as a society become so chemically dependant? Never heard of depression in my early life. Then presciption drugs (Prozac in particular) were allowed to be advertised on television and suddenly half the population suffers from depression (while drug companies make billions, if not trillions).

Coincidence or actual medical condition? I mean, dying of a broken heart is a phrase thrown around a lot, and I would think it alludes to depression from loss. So the great story of Romeo and Juliet doesnt happen if Shakespeare's monkey-typist had a bottle of Lithium?

Sounds like a world I really dont want to live in, if some day they have a pill to combat unhappiness. What would music be like? Are we only a pill away from semi-world peace (minus needed resources, of course)?

My question, when did a human emotion become a disease? Is there a pill for love, too? How about anger...wait there is one. So am I to assume that we as humans only prescribe drugs for emotions we dont want to have?

I dont get that, honestly. I mean, if I had to self-diagnose (much like normal Americans do everyday by the millions), I am pretty damn sure I am clinically depressed. Does that mean I have an excuse to abuse myself now?

Makes no sense to me. I can clearly see a time in the future when everyone takes a certain pill to alleviate the stress from dwelling in the suck-ass world we created for ourselves. And we'll just delude our perception of it in an attempt to associate our condition with some inside, unseen evil force of nature, foregoing any personal responsibility we may have for our plight.

In all seriousness, when 1 in 7 Americans (http://www.depression-guide.com/depression-statistics.htm) suffer from some form of depression (with the number rising every year), is it safe to say that it might not be an illness, but a natural byproduct of existing?

I dont know, I look at everything with the same question..."Who makes money?" I am quite sure about prozac's/whatever's effectiveness because as everyone else does in this thread, we all know about 6 people on some medication for some disorder they were diagnosed with because they didnt play well with other kids in school.

Anyway, have fun.

[SpursWoman]

n/m

[Grizzie]

so periodically i see these shows of super fat people and how they are so big that they can barely even move and leave the house and stuff like that, and every time they eat, they chow down like 6 triple cheeseburgers and 4 buckets of fries. if they are so incapable of moving and doing crap, how the hell do they have the money to afford all that?

Your tax dollars

[DarkReign]

@ SW

So I assume you agree that the over-eating of food is an addiction?

Then why is it "totally uncool" or "jerk"ish for me to categorize obese people in with meth-addicts? I dont get that.

Its a lack of discipline, plain and simple. When their weakness and powerlessness in life is shown to people (and we are all weak and powerless in some facet of our lives), some turn to drugs. Some turn to God. Some turn to food. Some turn to themselves, etc.

It isnt an uncorrectable situation and is most definitely self-induced. What separates the stigma of drugs from the stigma of food and why should everyone (including myself) abide such flimsy distinctions?

[CuckingFunt]

Damn. You're all over the place.


Hey, whatever. Works for you, I guess. Where Im from, sensitivity doesnt go very far. DrPhil and the his ilk are reserved for WestCoasters whereas here personal responsibility trumps everything.

Continually using Dr. Phil as your example of sensitivity is amusing, considering that he's become famous for a show that exploits people's personal problems for ratings.

Furthermore, I don't think that sensitivity goes very far anywhere. It's difficult, frankly. It's hard work to be emotionally sensitive, when compared to the relative ease of apathy. That was kind of the point of my initial comment (the one that started your ranting in the first place) -- we are an incredibly judgmental species. I think that's unfortunate. You've attempted to argue that we're justified in our judgment, but I still think it's inexcusable.


I hold addicts of all kinds personally responsible for themselves. Doesnt mean I hate them or despise them (or randomnly call them names to complete strangers on the street as you, Blake and SW seem to keep repeating until its true), but my pity meter doesnt register much.

If that makes me a cruel/bad person, I dont give a shit. I put my opinion out there and most here thinks it stinks. Fine, I'll live with that.

Doesnt change the fact that obesity is like any other addiction. But since the affliction is so widespread and close to home, we coddle it instead of looking at it without bias.

Sounds to me like a couple of stories in this thread had a "moment of clarity" which I am sure you know is common with alcoholics. But I am sure thats the only similarity they share...

I have mentioned specifically that I think it is essential to acknowledge personal responsibility. In this issue and others. But I see a tremendous difference between holding someone accountable for their actions, and subjecting someone to ridicule for their actions. Especially in the case of obesity, in which case it can be impossible for people to escape the assumptions that people make.

Since you're so fond of comparing smoking and obesity, let's examine the differences: when you light a cigarette, people make the assumption that you're a smoker and likely pass judgment about the fact you've chosen an unhealthy habit. Since you're in control of whether or not you light up in public, you're in control over whether or not people judge you accordingly. When someone is overweight, however, they walk down the street and have to deal with the assumption that they're stupid, out of control, self-destructive, lazy, awkward, incapable of functioning normally, insecure, asexual, unpopular, sad, undisciplined, in the way, untalented, constantly eating, and a burden. And, apparently, deserving of tough love. All from walking down the street, which is pretty much a necessary and unavoidable part of being alive.

If you can't see how these two situations are different, I really don't know what else to say.


Quick transition...

When did we as a society become so chemically dependant? Never heard of depression in my early life. Then presciption drugs (Prozac in particular) were allowed to be advertised on television and suddenly half the population suffers from depression (while drug companies make billions, if not trillions).

Coincidence or actual medical condition? I mean, dying of a broken heart is a phrase thrown around a lot, and I would think it alludes to depression from loss. So the great story of Romeo and Juliet doesnt happen if Shakespeare's monkey-typist had a bottle of Lithium?

Sounds like a world I really dont want to live in, if some day they have a pill to combat unhappiness. What would music be like? Are we only a pill away from semi-world peace (minus needed resources, of course)?

My question, when did a human emotion become a disease? Is there a pill for love, too? How about anger...wait there is one. So am I to assume that we as humans only prescribe drugs for emotions we dont want to have?

I dont get that, honestly. I mean, if I had to self-diagnose (much like normal Americans do everyday by the millions), I am pretty damn sure I am clinically depressed. Does that mean I have an excuse to abuse myself now?

Makes no sense to me. I can clearly see a time in the future when everyone takes a certain pill to alleviate the stress from dwelling in the suck-ass world we created for ourselves. And we'll just delude our perception of it in an attempt to associate our condition with some inside, unseen evil force of nature, foregoing any personal responsibility we may have for our plight.

In all seriousness, when 1 in 7 Americans (http://www.depression-guide.com/depression-statistics.htm) suffer from some form of depression (with the number rising every year), is it safe to say that it might not be an illness, but a natural byproduct of existing?

I dont know, I look at everything with the same question..."Who makes money?" I am quite sure about prozac's/whatever's effectiveness because as everyone else does in this thread, we all know about 6 people on some medication for some disorder they were diagnosed with because they didnt play well with other kids in school.

Anyway, have fun.

I'm sure a lot of it has to do with new abilities to treat legitimate illnesses, as well as pharmaceutical companies looking to get rich off of bullshit like Restless Leg Syndrome. The recent trend towards overmedication is one that I find quite damaging, though I don't really know what it has to do with this conversation.

[FromWayDowntown]

@ SW

So I assume you agree that the over-eating of food is an addiction?

Then why is it "totally uncool" or "jerk"ish for me to categorize obese people in with meth-addicts? I dont get that.

Its a lack of discipline, plain and simple. When their weakness and powerlessness in life is shown to people (and we are all weak and powerless in some facet of our lives), some turn to drugs. Some turn to God. Some turn to food. Some turn to themselves, etc.

It isnt an uncorrectable situation and is most definitely self-induced. What separates the stigma of drugs from the stigma of food and why should everyone (including myself) abide such flimsy distinctions?

Again, I qualify as clinically obese and have for almost all of my life. I can run for miles and I have an athletic history that is significant, but no matter how accomplished I have ever been as an athlete, there's been virtually no point in my life when I didn't qualify as clinically obese. The new year has brought a lifestyle change for me -- one that includes working out 5-6 times a week for at least an hour of cardio each day. The trainer who developed my program informed me that, at best, with good diet habits and continued commitment to the workout plan, I can expect to reach a weight that would drop me from clinically obese to clinically overweight -- and only barely.

Where, exactly, is the lack of discipline in any of that?

[Kori Ellis]

^V^V^V^V^V^V^V^V^V

Quick transition...

When did we as a society become so chemically dependant? Never heard of depression in my early life. Then presciption drugs (Prozac in particular) were allowed to be advertised on television and suddenly half the population suffers from depression (while drug companies make billions, if not trillions).

Coincidence or actual medical condition? I mean, dying of a broken heart is a phrase thrown around a lot, and I would think it alludes to depression from loss. So the great story of Romeo and Juliet doesnt happen if Shakespeare's monkey-typist had a bottle of Lithium?

Sounds like a world I really dont want to live in, if some day they have a pill to combat unhappiness. What would music be like? Are we only a pill away from semi-world peace (minus needed resources, of course)?

My question, when did a human emotion become a disease? Is there a pill for love, too? How about anger...wait there is one. So am I to assume that we as humans only prescribe drugs for emotions we dont want to have?

I dont get that, honestly. I mean, if I had to self-diagnose (much like normal Americans do everyday by the millions), I am pretty damn sure I am clinically depressed. Does that mean I have an excuse to abuse myself now?

Makes no sense to me. I can clearly see a time in the future when everyone takes a certain pill to alleviate the stress from dwelling in the suck-ass world we created for ourselves. And we'll just delude our perception of it in an attempt to associate our condition with some inside, unseen evil force of nature, foregoing any personal responsibility we may have for our plight.

In all seriousness, when 1 in 7 Americans (http://www.depression-guide.com/depression-statistics.htm) suffer from some form of depression (with the number rising every year), is it safe to say that it might not be an illness, but a natural byproduct of existing?

I dont know, I look at everything with the same question..."Who makes money?" I am quite sure about prozac's/whatever's effectiveness because as everyone else does in this thread, we all know about 6 people on some medication for some disorder they were diagnosed with because they didnt play well with other kids in school.

Anyway, have fun.


This part of your post, I agree with and I have ranted about it here before. The number of people that get anti-depression medication in our country is astronomical and largely unnecessary. Somewhere along the line, people forgot that it's okay to be sad sometimes. Sometimes stuff happens that SHOULD make you sad. So just because that happens doesn't mean that you should run to the psychiatrist and get a prescription.

I believe that the number of people that are actually in need of medication for depression (and kids with ADD for that matter) is very low. But the number of people that get prescriptions for it is just mind-boggling.

At one point when I lived in Los Angeles, I was the only person in my office not on anti-depressants. PULLLLLLLEASSE!

I hope soon people start changing their thinking on this. Sometimes people are sad. Sometimes kids are hyper. And you know what? That's okay... it's *normal*.

[/rare rant from me]

[DarkReign]

Continually using Dr. Phil as your example of sensitivity is amusing, considering that he's become famous for a show that exploits people's personal problems for ratings.

Furthermore, I don't think that sensitivity goes very far anywhere. It's difficult, frankly. It's hard work to be emotionally sensitive, when compared to the relative ease of apathy. That was kind of the point of my initial comment (the one that started your ranting in the first place) -- we are an incredibly judgmental species. I think that's unfortunate. You've attempted to argue that we're justified in our judgment, but I still think it's inexcusable.

Ah, well, that was crystal clear. Agreed on all points, but I am sure you dont care.


But I see a tremendous difference between holding someone accountable for their actions, and subjecting someone to ridicule for their actions.

..with friends and family? Really? Well, we're different people...big news, I know.


Since you're in control of whether or not you light up in public, you're in control over whether or not people judge you accordingly. When someone is overweight, however, they walk down the street and have to deal with the assumption that they're stupid, [sic]. All from walking down the street, which is pretty much a necessary and unavoidable part of being alive.

If you can't see how these two situations are different, I really don't know what else to say.

I can see the difference plainly. But it does not absolve myself or the overweight person of any personal responsibility to our plight, is my point.

Sure, I can hide/sneak/lie about my smoking while an overweight person has no such avenue of deceit in a public setting.

I am going to sum up my argument here. At first, it was about obesity being akin to smoking/drug use/whatever addiction. I was then given a plethora of excuses why people over-eat. Thats what they were....excuses.

Theyre depressed. Lost a loved one. Divorce, etc.

While that should be a temporary remorse, I cannot believe that 63% of Americans are in a constant state of depression.

It is my belief that a majority of those people just plain like to feel sorry for themselves for selfish reasons or just plain like to eat and thats that. Now we have an entire field of scientific study devoted to making a profit off of America's inability to problem solve.

To me, its just another indictment on a lazy people who over-consume at every chance because thats what their idea of success translates to (fast cars, big house, private jet...or more realisticly, substandard income homes who feel the need to go to their local RentACenter and make weekly payments on a big screen television theyll never own...you get the idea, consumerism).

Whether they observed those habits or not thru media of some sort or thru personal discovery, being rich and the envy of everyone else seems (to me) to be the lofty, unattainable goal most delusional Americans partake in. Maybe its more modest expectations like holding down a good job, or having a great wife and family, etc. When life crushes their hopes and dreams like life usually does, their inability to deal with the harshness of reality endeavors down a path of self-destruction thru various means of mitigation (chemical or otherwise).

If I am right about that, then I refuse to participate in the pity party because I dwell in this world too, life kicks my ass all the time, yet I go way out of my way to never make excuses for my behavior, my situation or my choices.

I expect the same from others as well, and have been surprisingly disappointed. All I hear is excuses, that this is a medical condition to be diagnosed and treated by an ever-expanding healthcare industry more self-interested than the most drug-addicted addict we have ever encountered.

And people in general are buying this line of bullshit because some PhD says its so (when there are an equal number of other PhDs who vehemently disagree), and it pisses me off.

Thus, this thread.


I'm sure a lot of it has to do with new abilities to treat legitimate illnesses, as well as pharmaceutical companies looking to get rich off of bullshit like Restless Leg Syndrome. The recent trend towards overmedication is one that I find quite damaging, though I don't really know what it has to do with this conversation.

Depression and its link to obesity. 1 in 7 Americans are clinically depressed, yet 63% are overweight. Despite that, I am painted as the heartless bastard in this thread for poking fun at people I love and care about and for not partaking in the mindless agreement of overweight people suffering from some malady other than gluttony.

[SpursWoman]

@ SW

So I assume you agree that the over-eating of food is an addiction?

Then why is it "totally uncool" or "jerk"ish for me to categorize obese people in with meth-addicts? I dont get that.

Its a lack of discipline, plain and simple. When their weakness and powerlessness in life is shown to people (and we are all weak and powerless in some facet of our lives), some turn to drugs. Some turn to God. Some turn to food. Some turn to themselves, etc.

It isnt an uncorrectable situation and is most definitely self-induced. What separates the stigma of drugs from the stigma of food and why should everyone (including myself) abide such flimsy distinctions?


Because you're generalizing, and I happen to be someone specifically that you are incorrectly generalizing into that group and it pisses me off. And I don't feel like I should have to walk around showing everyone my bottle of Synthroid because quitting smoking actually fucked up my body chemistry ... or how I wasn't aware until it was a major problem that my body was reacting very badly to the progesterone in my Mirena IUD, to even hope to be left the fuck alone without being unfairly judged or criticized or insulted.

But honestly? I'm getting used to the fact that it's become socially the norm to be an asshole, to say whatever the fuck you want to and fuck you if you don't like it ... even if some have to hide behind some chickenshit little troll to do it.*




*only a general statement, not aimed at anyone in particular. Well, maybe a couple ... :nerd

[CuckingFunt]

Despite that, I am painted as the heartless bastard in this thread for poking fun at people I love and care about

Clearly, we're out of our minds for making that suggestion.

Clearly.

[Blake]

Despite that, I am painted as the heartless bastard in this thread for poking fun at people I love and care about

what a guy

I should remember to poke fun at my 5 year old daughter tonite just to remind her how much I love her

[Blake]

I am going to sum up my argument here. At first, it was about obesity being akin to smoking/drug use/whatever addiction. I was then given a plethora of excuses why people over-eat. Thats what they were....excuses.


no, not really.

but just keep on looking like an ignorant jackass.

[DarkReign]

Again, I qualify as clinically obese and have for almost all of my life. I can run for miles and I have an athletic history that is significant, but no matter how accomplished I have ever been as an athlete, there's been virtually no point in my life when I didn't qualify as clinically obese. The new year has brought a lifestyle change for me -- one that includes working out 5-6 times a week for at least an hour of cardio each day. The trainer who developed my program informed me that, at best, with good diet habits and continued commitment to the workout plan, I can expect to reach a weight that would drop me from clinically obese to clinically overweight -- and only barely.

Where, exactly, is the lack of discipline in any of that?

See, this is where I knew my line of reasoning would take this conversation.

You probably have some genetic predisposition to obesity/being overweight (i am nooooo doctor, nor health-nut to say what it is with any confidence).

But unlike a large percentage of the 63% of Americans who eat themselves to sleep at night, you have recognized the health related risks and tried to make a damn fine life change.

Shit man, I say thats frickin awesome! I sincerely wish I had that kind of willpower to quit smoking.

I am trying to speak in generalities where generalities apply. Obesity is up in this country and it wil become the scourge of he 21st century...and it is NOT because of people like yourself.

I dont hate or even dislike overweight people. What I do dislike is the myriad of excuses some over-weight people and their sympathizers use to explain away their life choices. You obviously arent making excuses and you are certainly not propogating common fallacies associated with weight problems in this country.

I think I made a very certain reference earlier in this thread that discluded people just like yourself to begin with. My sister in law is similar to you in that way (but its a thyroid problem). Some people cant do much about it, I understand that and in those cases, I sympathize.

But your condition is not applicable to even a fraction of the weight problem, statistically speaking. So miniscule in fact, that my assumption about the over-weight person sitting in the corner of McDonalds doesnt start and end with "maybe its genetic.."

Thats my point.

[DarkReign]

But honestly? I'm getting used to the fact that it's become socially the norm to be an asshole, to say whatever the fuck you want to and fuck you if you don't like it ... even if some have to hide behind some chickenshit little troll to do it.*

I see the asterik. I dont use trolls. Never have, never will.

[SpursWoman]

I see the asterik. I dont use trolls. Never have, never will.


But you know what I'm referring to, so don't think for a minute that fat people aren't treated poorly in this country, that we're coddled or whatever else. That was entirely unprovoked, yet it's shit that happens all of the time.

[Blake]

You probably have some genetic predisposition to obesity/being overweight (i am nooooo doctor, nor health-nut to say what it is with any confidence).

then stop talking out of your ass


But unlike a large percentage of the 63% of Americans who eat themselves to sleep at night, you have recognized the health related risks and tried to make a damn fine life change.

and you know for certain that the morbidly obese person has not tried at all


I am trying to speak in generalities where generalities apply. Obesity is up in this country and it wil become the scourge of he 21st century...and it is NOT because of people like yourself.

you seem to be speaking in generalities all over the place


I dont hate or even dislike overweight people.

you've made it pretty clear that if you poke fun at someone, that means you love them


But your condition is not applicable to even a fraction of the weight problem, statistically speaking. So miniscule in fact, that my assumption about the over-weight person sitting in the corner of McDonalds doesnt start and end with "maybe its genetic.."

Thats my point.

funny, I thought you said we weren't supposed to make assumptions.

[DarkReign]

Because you're generalizing, and I happen to be someone specifically that you are incorrectly generalizing into that group and it pisses me off. And I don't feel like I should have to walk around showing everyone my bottle of Synthroid because quitting smoking actually fucked up my body chemistry ... or how I wasn't aware until it was a major problem that my body was reacting very badly to the progesterone in my Mirena IUD, to even hope to be left the fuck alone without being unfairly judged or criticized or insulted.

So youre another exception, although I am not familiar with the interactions you describe, my dad gained 45lbs when he quit smoking. As I am sure you know, nicotine is an appetite suppressant. It also slows down the digestive process on any food you intake, thereby reducing the amounts of nutrients (and fat, calorie, etc) that your body takes in from that food.

I am sure you knew that anyway.

So, since I have somehow offended you (even though in one of my first posts I made exceptions for those that suffer from medical conditions)m lets get right down to it.

If 63% of Americans are overweight and 31% of Americans are obese, then we should just chalk those numbers up to medical conditions in totality?

Or should we recognize that a majority of those people are gluttons?

Or should we just ignore the facts and continue to sing koom-bi-ya, be polite and look the other way from a health crisis?

[DarkReign]

But you know what I'm referring to, so don't think for a minute that fat people aren't treated poorly in this country, that we're coddled or whatever else. That was entirely unprovoked, yet it's shit that happens all of the time.

Yes I do and youre right.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

It's becoming apparent that a large part of is based on where you live. There is nothing DR has stated that is wrong about how a majority of families/friends act up here. It's just how it is. I do think the judgmental aspect of it is inherent but it is definitely shaped by the environment you're brought up in.

BTW, when did judgmental become such a bad word?

And what's wrong with poking fun of kids? Like everything else, it depends on how and who you do it to.

[DarkReign]

you've made it pretty clear that if you poke fun at someone, that means you love them

No, thats how you interpret what I said. Thats your failure at reading comprehension, on you, not me. Youre petpetuating an untruth in an attempt to discredit the argument. Its typical.


funny, I thought you said we weren't supposed to make assumptions.

When I see a guy with a car full of fast food wrappers and the drivers side sags the suspension, that isnt an assumption.

[Kori Ellis]

But you know what I'm referring to, so don't think for a minute that fat people aren't treated poorly in this country, that we're coddled or whatever else. That was entirely unprovoked, yet it's shit that happens all of the time.

Well that guy - Joe Esposito/Nomad or whatever he wants to call himself was obviously just being an ass to be an ass. I heard that happens sometimes when you haven't been laid in years. But I wouldn't know. :downspin:

[CuckingFunt]

It's becoming apparent that a large part of is based on where you live. There is nothing DR has stated that is wrong about how a majority of families/friends act up here. It's just how it is. I do think the judgmental aspect of it is inherent but it is definitely shaped by the environment you're brought up in.

Again, I don't doubt for a minute that it's "just how it is."

Everyone I know is judgmental. Everyone. Including myself, at times. I still think it's fucked up, though. I still think it's unfortunate that it has become the societal norm to immediately belittle and/or dismiss those who are different than we are. Unquestionably a fact of life, and one that probably isn't likely to change any time soon, but really not our best feature.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I still think it's unfortunate that it has become the societal norm to immediately belittle and/or dismiss those who are different than we are. Unquestionably a fact of life, and one that probably isn't likely to change any time soon, but really not our best feature.

The only problem I have with this is the word "become".

It's always been that way and I don't think it will ever change.

[CuckingFunt]

The only problem I have with this is the word "become".

It's always been that way and I don't think it will ever change.

Semantics, I think.

I use "become" because it's my belief that our intensely judgmental tendencies are socially motivated, rather than biologically motivated. Certainly it is the way things have been for generations and generations, so it's not as if it's suddenly become the norm within the last 10-15 years, but I absolutely do not believe that it is built into our DNA to be so judgmental. I think it has developed as our species/society/culture has evolved, even if it has done so slowly.

I do agree that it is very unlikely to change, however.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Really? all this time I thought you was drug free, born again, tree hugging soccer Mom!

I say Ruff will have his meltdown on page 5 :tu

So, so far from the truth... :lol

...and why would I meltdown about this? We're having an interesting discussion.


ditto on what BB said about why we have become a fast food nation, but my grandparents were around during a time when restraint wasn't really a choice......it was a necessity.

We take it for granted that we can hop in the car and get whatever we need from HEB or WalMart at a reasonable cost. What do eggs cost......about a buck for dozen? My grandmother gave piano lessons for eggs back in the 30s.

Indeed.

I'd just like to say thanks to Ed, FWD and CF for sharing those stories. You've helped me to see just how complex an issue this is. Because I have never had a weight problem and always been motivated towards fitness I never really understood it, but I'm starting to now. Cheers.

The preponderance of fast food, and over-processed food, and the use of things like high-fructose corn syrup in soft drinks (adds lots of calories without making you feel full), combined with the incredible pace of modern life, is certainly not helping the average Joe to stay in shape. I think it's also a matter of teaching kids from a very young age about good nutrition, and how to cook healthy food - from anecdotal observation, as societies we don't do that very well any more.

Carry on.

[GoGatos.]

So, so far from the truth... :lol

...and why would I meltdown about this? We're having an interesting discussion.
.

Sorry I thought you was someone else, Maybe it was Buddy Holly. All I know is more than one poster kept saying you was Gay and I thought you posted your done with this site?

Sorry my bad.

Anyway keep up the good come backs! everyone here at work is reading this topic and we are all pulling for you. :tu

[mouse]

Dude Ruff is no tree hugger. The man is a Golden GOD when it comes to debate topics!

Trust me you will find David Robinson In a bikers bar doing coke lines off a naked tattooed strippers ass while listening to Metalica before you see Ruff acting Gay.

Ruff 4

Blake 0

[Blake]

Dude Ruff is no tree hugger. The man is a Golden GOD when it comes to debate topics!

Trust me you will find David Robinson In a bikers bar doing coke lines off a naked tattooed strippers ass while listening to Metalica before you see Ruff acting Gay.

Ruff 4

Blake 0

that's crazy. Metallica? pfft.

[Blake]

No, thats how you interpret what I said. Thats your failure at reading comprehension, on you, not me. Youre petpetuating an untruth in an attempt to discredit the argument. Its typical.




But just embracing habits that are detrimental to your health, or a loved one's health, isnt healthy or proactive. Obviously, I am little more supportive and constructive with friends and family, but they still catch their share of hell from me and others (I have noticed other overweight people are less forgiving than me). A few have lost weight/quit smoking/stopped drinking so much/went to rehab/started excercising/whatever. Its that friendly ridicule that truly inspires a person to change, IMO Not overlooking their glaring condition and accepting them wholesale, only to watch them suffer diabetes/heart failure/etc. Youre enabling them and absolving yourself of blame. I think thats sort of weak on our part, that we didnt have the guts to state the obvious.

no, I don't think I misread you saying that friendly ridicule truly inspires a person to change

[DarkReign]

no, I don't think I misread you saying that friendly ridicule truly inspires a person to change

You can try and bullshit your way through what you meant when you said:


you've made it pretty clear that if you poke fun at someone, that means you love them

..and try and pass it off as my original meaning all you'd like. When I made my comments "poking fun" or getting "busted on", I made it a clear reference to those close to me, not complete strangers as youre trying to characterize in the above quote, and you know it.

Youre garnering support like a good politician does.

EDITED: Hell, you even did my work for me. You didnt take the quote out of context...thanks. (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3045692&postcount=173)

[CuckingFunt]

Another thing that occurred to me while I was running errands a bit ago (and, yes, I realize it's somewhat sad that I was thinking about this place while running errands, but I'm okay with that) is that I don't know a single overweight/obese person who hasn't made numerous attempts to change their lifestyle. Not one. As mentioned earlier, obesity is quite common on my mom's side of the family and between family and friends, I know and care for several people who have battled weight issues. None of whom have ever just thrown up their hands and said "fuck it, I'm just fat, bring on the Krispy Kremes." Granted, I'm sure there are many people who have said that, but it is another example of an attitude/choice that simply cannot be assumed.

In the case of everyone I know or have met, the overwhelming majority have been far more diligent in dieting, changing their eating habits, exercising, and trying to lose weight than I ever have. It's just a really hard thing to do.

[DarkReign]

This part of your post, I agree with and I have ranted about it here before. The number of people that get anti-depression medication in our country is astronomical and largely unnecessary. Somewhere along the line, people forgot that it's okay to be sad sometimes. Sometimes stuff happens that SHOULD make you sad. So just because that happens doesn't mean that you should run to the psychiatrist and get a prescription.

I believe that the number of people that are actually in need of medication for depression (and kids with ADD for that matter) is very low. But the number of people that get prescriptions for it is just mind-boggling.

At one point when I lived in Los Angeles, I was the only person in my office not on anti-depressants. PULLLLLLLEASSE!

I hope soon people start changing their thinking on this. Sometimes people are sad. Sometimes kids are hyper. And you know what? That's okay... it's *normal*.

[/rare rant from me]

Its been my suspicion that the law that previously banned advertising prescription medication on television was financed by the same psychoactive drug companies with new "happy pills" Americans would demand when seeing the condition they were advertising to.

What do you know, with advertising like this...

6vfSFXKlnO0

...the amount of people "suffering" from depression skyrockets overnight.

I wonder why...

btw, I was wrong earlier about Prozac. I knew it was some antidepressant, but it was this commercial I remember.


At one point when I lived in Los Angeles, I was the only person in my office not on anti-depressants. PULLLLLLLEASSE!

Thats just bizarro world...

[DarkReign]

...and that is exactly the same argument I am trying to have about obesity as well. I readily admitted and made exceptions for nearly every medical example used in this thread.

I have never once claimed every single overweight person is a glutton or an addict. But I do say a vast majority of the 63% of people in this country are exactly those two things.

Yet I am being lambasted for stating the obvious, that statistically speaking, well over half of the overweight people in this country are addicted to food! Its frickin true!

If it werent true, than at least ONE other industrialized nation would have comparable stats to back that claim up. Guess what? There isnt another nation with this magnitude of a weight problem. Especially for as high a population we have in comparison to the European nations, or that larger populations like China/India show no sign of this epidemic (really, I didnt want to use the super-populated countries at this extreme for obvious reasons).

What is so damn offensive about that?!

Because I bust on my loved ones about it (and many other things)? I will not apologize for my personal interactions with those I care about. You guys wouldnt last 20mins in a typical conversation amongst loved ones.


I usually open my arguments with the exceptions and then rant about the subject matter. When I said the things I said about over-eaters and gluttons, I was speaking about and to the gluttons and over-eaters. Like I would about any other addict of sorts that I had any sort of personal relationship with.

[DarkReign]

Another thing that occurred to me while I was running errands a bit ago

[sic]

In the case of everyone I know or have met, the overwhelming majority have been far more diligent in dieting, changing their eating habits, exercising, and trying to lose weight than I ever have. It's just a really hard thing to do.

See, I cant say the same thing by a looooongshot. Gluttons and proud of it with little to no effort at all. Totally comfortable in their own skin.

[CuckingFunt]

Yet I am being lambasted for stating the obvious, that statistically speaking, well over half of the overweight people in this country are addicted to food! Its frickin true!

I can't speak for anyone else, but if you think that's why you're being lambasted by me, you've missed my point just as completely as you feel everyone else has missed yours.

My only argument in this thread, since page one, is that it's really ugly and uncool to blindly judge people (for any reason, really, but obviously this thread centers around weight). That's it. I don't doubt, not for an instant, that many people are overweight for no other reason than they like to eat. I don't doubt that there are people who are perfectly comfortable with their bad choices and who have made countless excuses to justify those choices. I just don't think that is something we can/should assume about anyone we happen to see walking down the street.

The reason I initially responded to Wild Cobra's post was because I was bothered by the attitude, and I see it often, that says fat and wearing spandex is automatically equal to disgusting human being. That, to me, is a tremendous (and unfair) leap.

And, while I certainly don't agree with the idea that ridicule, regardless the degree or the relationship, is in anyway good or constructive, that hasn't been my main argument with you. If you and your friends are good with it, knock yourselves out; I have a healthy joking relationship with my friends, as well. My MAIN argument with you, the point where I really disagree vehemently, is in the idea that it is okay or right to see someone who is overweight and make an assumption as to how or why they are overweight and/or to make a judgment about that person based on such an assumption. You've argued repeatedly that, hey, everyone does it, which is absolutely true. Everyone does do that. Everyone makes assumptions and snap judgments. I've acknowledged that repeatedly. Even that I'm not free from that behavior myself. My point, once more, is that I think it is really unfortunate that we, as a society, have grown so accepting of (and reliant upon) those assumptions and snap judgments.

[DarkReign]

I can't speak for anyone else, but if you think that's why you're being lambasted by me, you've missed my point just as completely as you feel everyone else has missed yours.

[sic]

Even that I'm not free from that behavior myself. My point, once more, is that I think it is really unfortunate that we, as a society, have grown so accepting of (and reliant upon) those assumptions and snap judgments.

Philosophical, then. I wasnt ever trying to argue from that standpoint and it certainly pertains. Well, I cant argue against your point or its merit. And yes, I did miss it entirely. Thats on me, not you. Reading comprehension and all that...

[whottt]

Again, I qualify as clinically obese and have for almost all of my life. I can run for miles and I have an athletic history that is significant, but no matter how accomplished I have ever been as an athlete, there's been virtually no point in my life when I didn't qualify as clinically obese. The new year has brought a lifestyle change for me -- one that includes working out 5-6 times a week for at least an hour of cardio each day. The trainer who developed my program informed me that, at best, with good diet habits and continued commitment to the workout plan, I can expect to reach a weight that would drop me from clinically obese to clinically overweight -- and only barely.

Where, exactly, is the lack of discipline in any of that?


This reminds me of the conversation timvp and I had at the AJ retirement jersey game...

timvp: so why do you hate FWDT?

whottt: I don't hate FWDT, I like FWDT immensely, I'm invited him to the site from SR when you first invited me. I just like to fuck with him because he's a laywer and has this kind of just the facts mentality. His responses are just funny to me sometimes. Plus he is a lawyer and they should be given shit just on principle.

timvp: Oh, well you talk smack to him a lot so I just figured didn't like him.

whottt: No, I like him him a great deal, that's why I invited him to the site when I left SR. Smart guy and tends to have an educated and well founded opinion and I usually look forward to his contributions to threads on the forum ...he needs some major work on his Hakeem > Drob belief though. Anyway I talk smack to everyone, not as much to him as most.
Besides he's just a lawyer...if he gets pissed off he'll get over it.

timvp: I think he played offensive line in college or something like that.

whottt: shit.

timvp: *mysterious smile*

[Blake]

You can try and bullshit your way through what you meant when you said:



..and try and pass it off as my original meaning all you'd like. When I made my comments "poking fun" or getting "busted on", I made it a clear reference to those close to me, not complete strangers as youre trying to characterize in the above quote, and you know it.

Youre garnering support like a good politician does.

EDITED: Hell, you even did my work for me. You didnt take the quote out of context...thanks. (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3045692&postcount=173)


right......I'm the one spinning it......:lol

justify your friendly jabs any way you want. don't be surprised if people start leaving you out of their fave five

[johnsmith]

lol, fat people.

[DisAsTerBot]

Another thing that occurred to me while I was running errands a bit ago (and, yes, I realize it's somewhat sad that I was thinking about this place while running errands, but I'm okay with that) is that I don't know a single overweight/obese person who hasn't made numerous attempts to change their lifestyle. Not one. As mentioned earlier, obesity is quite common on my mom's side of the family and between family and friends, I know and care for several people who have battled weight issues. None of whom have ever just thrown up their hands and said "fuck it, I'm just fat, bring on the Krispy Kremes." Granted, I'm sure there are many people who have said that, but it is another example of an attitude/choice that simply cannot be assumed.

In the case of everyone I know or have met, the overwhelming majority have been far more diligent in dieting, changing their eating habits, exercising, and trying to lose weight than I ever have. It's just a really hard thing to do.


but once the goal is not met, and they make the decision to abandon whatever changes they made.....aren't they basically saying "fuck it?"

[romad_20]

Well that guy - Joe Esposito/Nomad or whatever he wants to call himself was obviously just being an ass to be an ass. I heard that happens sometimes when you haven't been laid in years. But I wouldn't know. :downspin:

Hey, hey, hey don't blame that on me. I didn't post that shit, and its romad with an r. I have two other people that I work with that post on this site with trolls, but not me. I was actually trying to contribute, but whatever.

[Desert Plains]

I can't speak for anyone else, but if you think that's why you're being lambasted by me, you've missed my point just as completely as you feel everyone else has missed yours.

My only argument in this thread, since page one, is that it's really ugly and uncool to blindly judge people (for any reason, really, but obviously this thread centers around weight). That's it. I don't doubt, not for an instant, that many people are overweight for no other reason than they like to eat. I don't doubt that there are people who are perfectly comfortable with their bad choices and who have made countless excuses to justify those choices. I just don't think that is something we can/should assume about anyone we happen to see walking down the street.

The reason I initially responded to Wild Cobra's post was because I was bothered by the attitude, and I see it often, that says fat and wearing spandex is automatically equal to disgusting human being. That, to me, is a tremendous (and unfair) leap.

And, while I certainly don't agree with the idea that ridicule, regardless the degree or the relationship, is in anyway good or constructive, that hasn't been my main argument with you. If you and your friends are good with it, knock yourselves out; I have a healthy joking relationship with my friends, as well. My MAIN argument with you, the point where I really disagree vehemently, is in the idea that it is okay or right to see someone who is overweight and make an assumption as to how or why they are overweight and/or to make a judgment about that person based on such an assumption. You've argued repeatedly that, hey, everyone does it, which is absolutely true. Everyone does do that. Everyone makes assumptions and snap judgments. I've acknowledged that repeatedly. Even that I'm not free from that behavior myself. My point, once more, is that I think it is really unfortunate that we, as a society, have grown so accepting of (and reliant upon) those assumptions and snap judgments.


:tu

[Jacob1983]

I would say that fat people and smokers are the new blacks in America.

[Strike]

I don't really know much about anorexic people and what their status is with the ADA. Maybe they have a real gripe.

Smokers don't have any gripes. Just because you light up a cigarette on occasion doesn't mean you should get the handicap plates.

But gaining weight to the point of looking and moving like Jabba The Hutt should gain you a sticker?

[SnakeBoy]

so don't think for a minute that fat people aren't treated poorly in this country

They can get a double bacon cheeseburger, jumbo fries, and a coke (diet of course) for under $5. I think this country is treating them just fine.

[Trainwreck2100]

this reminds me of something i've been meaning to post here, why do fat women use the woman's only section/women's only gyms. Silly fatties those aren't for you.

[SpursWoman]

Yeah ... that makes perfect sense. :wtf

[Trainwreck2100]

Yeah ... that makes perfect sense. :wtf

the woman's only section if because chicks got tired of dudes hitting on them at the gym, fatties don't need to worry about that. The logic is sound

[Strike]

the woman's only section if because chicks got tired of dudes hitting on them at the gym, fatties don't need to worry about that. The logic is sound

win

[Melmart1]

the woman's only section if because chicks got tired of dudes hitting on them at the gym, fatties don't need to worry about that. The logic is sound

Maybe they do it so as not to be ridiculed about being fat by men like you who find their jollies in making fun of other peoples' appearance.

[SpursWoman]

Maybe they do it so as not to be ridiculed about being fat by men like you who find their jollies in making fun of other peoples' appearance.


Pretty much ... but it sure gives us all a little insight to his fabulously successful track record with the ladies. :spin

[TDMVPDPOY]

them fat people, where do they get the money from to buy all them snacks?

[Trainwreck2100]

Maybe they do it so as not to be ridiculed about being fat by men like you who find their jollies in making fun of other peoples' appearance.

That's a little pretentious of fatties to assume that guys care care what they look like when they are working out. Most guys only break their workout concentration to a)look at hot chicks or b) look at hot chicks. Guys work out so they don't have to settle for fatties.

[CuckingFunt]

That's a little pretentious of fatties to assume that guys care care what they look like when they are working out. Most guys only break their workout concentration to a)look at hot chicks or b) look at hot chicks. Guys work out so they don't have to settle for fatties.

Clearly it's a legitimate concern, since you've paid enough attention to notice that they are working out where (you feel) they shouldn't be.

[Trainwreck2100]

Clearly it's a legitimate concern, since you've paid enough attention to notice that they are working out where (you feel) they shouldn't be.


not by choice, i was looking in the women's only section to see what the big deal was. I see fat; i turn away; i come to the epiphany that fat chicks don't need to work out there cause guys don't give a shit about you fatty.

[Trainwreck2100]

i would like to add that a guy would give a shit about a fatty if she was ecclipsing 2 hot chicks.









get out of the way fatty

[CuckingFunt]

not by choice, i was looking in the women's only section hoping to see hot chicks. I see fat; i turn away; i come to the epiphany that fat chicks don't need to work out there cause guys don't give a shit about you fatty.

Not giving a shit =/= coming home and posting about it.

[Trainwreck2100]

Not giving a shit =/= coming home and posting about it.

you misunderstand i don't give a shit about what a fatty looks like when she works out. I do give a shit that fatty THINKS a guy gives a shit about what she looks like working out

[CuckingFunt]

And, in relation to points I made earlier in this thread, it says a lot about where we are as a society that overweight people can be made fun of both for being lazy gluttons and for making futile attempts at exercise and self-improvement. Simultaneously. It's hugely unfair.

The added misogyny of Trainwreck's comments (and, let's be honest, hypocrisy) is especially alarming. I hope you've gotten comfortable with your virginity, because unless you can drop the ridiculous notion that women exist solely to provide you with scenery and entertainment, I don't see it leaving you any time soon. Just a hunch.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Am I the only one that thinks Trainwreck just trolling around here... why are you ladies even bothering to argue with what can only be construed as a very weak troll job?

[Trainwreck2100]

And, in relation to points I made earlier in this thread, it says a lot about where we are as a society that overweight people can be made fun of both for being lazy gluttons and for making futile attempts at exercise and self-improvement. Simultaneously. It's hugely unfair.

The added misogyny of Trainwreck's comments (and, let's be honest, hypocrisy) is especially alarming. I hope you've gotten comfortable with your virginity, because unless you can drop the ridiculous notion that women exist solely to provide you with scenery and entertainment, I don't see it leaving you any time soon. Just a hunch.

Hypocrisy? the only hypocrisy is that fat women get their own section but fat men get their rolls swaying in the wind in general population

[mrsmaalox]

Hypocrisy? the only hypocrisy is that fat women get their own section but fat men get their rolls swaying in the wind in general population

Wow I've been to many gyms in my time and I've never seen a "fat women's only" section.
I've used many "women only" sections though. And it's funny that you think those sections are for women to hide and not be seen by men. I know the reason I use those sections (as well as many other women I've chatted with) is because sweaty men are gross. Even the clean ones smell when they sweat. And after seeing a guy sweat quarts onto a machine, I don't want to use it, I don't care how many wipes they use on it. And as hot as that dripping sweat look is on Manu Ginobili, it doesn't work so well on most the guys I've seen at gyms. So I'll just keep my fat little patootie in my section so that I don't have to smell or, heaven forbid, witness any disgusting beasts while I workout! :D

[SpursWoman]

Wow I've been to many gyms in my time and I've never seen a "fat women's only" section.
I've used many "women only" sections though. And it's funny that you think those sections are for women to hide and not be seen by men. I know the reason I use those sections (as well as many other women I've chatted with) is because sweaty men are gross. Even the clean ones smell when they sweat. And after seeing a guy sweat quarts onto a machine, I don't want to use it, I don't care how many wipes they use on it. And as hot as that dripping sweat look is on Manu Ginobili, it doesn't work so well on most the guys I've seen at gyms. So I'll just keep my fat little patootie in my section so that I don't have to smell or, heaven forbid, witness any disgusting beasts while I workout! :D


Ever work out in the free weight section? There's a lot of gas-passing over there, too. Forget that. ... fatty gotta breathe too! :vomit: :lol

[koriwhat]

Oh, no ... I know it would be ridiculous, but seriously, I don't get these people. We watch those shows about those kinds of people all the time. Most of them are bed-bound, and loved ones BRING them the shit. WTF? You'd think there has to be some kind of crime there. :fro

it's called... a society of dumbfucks!

ps: anyone seen the onion movie? i love the part in it where they claim the surgeon general has reclassified what obese means and out of the 200 million obese now the new classification has knocked that number down to a whopping 185 million. some big obese dude gets on the news and says, "man they got to do something about this because i don't want to be considered obese!" when in reality dude is 300+lbs. hahaha great stuff.

[koriwhat]

i could care less about obese people and whatnot but you know who really pisses me off? all these dumbfucks who claim they're bi-polar or some other shit and get social security. i have a really good friend who has these two brothers who are both on social security at the age of 25 & 30. funny thing is these dudes live with their parents still, party all the fuckin' time, are far from the definition of bi-polar and oh here's the kicker, they live in stone oak in a huge fuckin' house and yet they get social security and a fuckin' lonestar card and as much money as their parents can throw at them.

it speaks volumes for the way people abuse the system and the people around them. ie, the obese and these "diseased" people!

excuses excuses.

[mrsmaalox]

Ever work out in the free weight section? There's a lot of gas-passing over there, too. Forget that. ... fatty gotta breathe too! :vomit: :lol

:tu :lol

[Mixability]

it's true about fat people and weird angle pics on the internet though.......

[manufan10]

A 14 year old who weighed 383 lbs, collapsed and died on a football field:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,541984,00.html?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a16:g2:r2:c0 .014939:b27372742:z0

Why would you let your son/daughter get that big? I don't understand it.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

A 14 year old who weighed 383 lbs, collapsed and died on a football field:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,541984,00.html?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a16:g2:r2:c0 .014939:b27372742:z0

Why would you let your son/daughter get that big? I don't understand it.

he was 6f 2in... at 13... crap.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

What's disgusting to me is how fucking judgmental a species we are.

Obesity is unhealthy, and often (not always) the result of poor lifestyle choices and/or a lack of discipline, but overweight people are still human beings and, as such, should be treated with a modicum of respect. If she was on a bicycle, it's entirely possible that she was making an attempt to live healthy and lose weight, but heaven forbid we commend someone for taking action to rid themselves of evil fatness. Especially when the health of your precious eyeballs hangs in the balance.


I'm judgmental when fat people expect the government to solve their problems. Healthcare wouldn't be such a huge problem in this country if people weren't so fat.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You shouldn't get social security because you decided that staying healthy wasn't important. Your fatness = your problem. Tax dollars shouldn't go to people who are so pathetic and fat they can't get out of bed in the morning.