Separation of church and state, please?

[MiamiHeat]

During the inauguration of Obama, 2 big problems :

1) They were STILL using an overtly Christian prayer.

2) Why do they continue to use religion in these things in the first place?



No respect to other religions and those who don't believe in boogiemen. You just don't do that. If they are even going to have a prayer, it NEEDS to be universal. No mentions of "God of Israel" and other judeo-christian signals.

[clambake]

uh oh.

[BRHornet45]

son your boy Barack wanted Rick Warren there. I knew it was a matter of time before one of you silly "Bill Maher" liberal fucktards whined about it.

[MiamiHeat]

i don't like bill maher lol, and i'm not a liberal either.

[BRHornet45]

i don't like bill maher lol, and i'm not a liberal either.

well son if you're not a liberal then why are you crying about them saying a prayer? what are you some kind of athiest conservative?? lol

[angel_luv]

1) They were STILL using an overtly Christian prayer.


:tu :clap

[JamStone]

During the inauguration of Obama, 2 big problems :

1) They were STILL using an overtly Christian prayer.

2) Why do they continue to use religion in these things in the first place?



No respect to other religions and those who don't believe in boogiemen. You just don't do that. If they are even going to have a prayer, it NEEDS to be universal. No mentions of "God of Israel" and other judeo-christian signals.

The opening prayer was overtly Christian, which I found to be a bit too much.

But Barack specifically mentioned Judaism, Muslim, Hinduism, and "non-believers" in his speech.

[MiamiHeat]

My Point Remains!

[BRHornet45]

sons they should have let the honorable Rev. Jeremiah Wright do the prayer. "GOD bless america??? NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! .... GOD DAMN AMERICA!!!"

[DarkReign]

2) Why do they continue to use religion in these things in the first place?

While I agree with you in principle, you do realize the separation of church and state is entirely a Jefferson creation and not explicitly stated in the Constitution?

[DarkReign]

sons they should have let the honorable Rev. Jeremiah Wright do the prayer. "GOD bless america??? NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! .... GOD DAMN AMERICA!!!"

Really? Then gtfo while you still can.

[BRHornet45]

Really? Then gtfo while you still can.

lol cum bubble boy you're back!!!!

[MiamiHeat]

While I agree with you in principle, you do realize the separation of church and state is entirely a Jefferson creation and not explicitly stated in the Constitution?

Yes, I know that it's not in the Constitution. It should be. That's not the point.

religion has no place in government. are we to allow presidents to pray and make their decisions based voices in their head ?

we both agree

[Winehole23]

The prayers are customary. Big deal. Whose rights have been injured?

I thought the mere mention of non-believers in Obama's speech was extraordinary, but you're too focused a relative non-issue to get it, MH.

[DarkReign]

lol cum bubble boy you're back!!!!

When I give a shit what a troll whose call sign is "sons" and worships the feet of ignorant jackass like Rev. Wright, I'll be sure to let you know.

The only thing I ever wanted to know about you, BR, is who you really are here at ST. Because there is no possible way you are a real, carbon lifeform with a conscience and an opinion.

And if you are, then you have disproved God's existence by your very acting of breathing.

[BRHornet45]

When I give a shit what a troll whose call sign is "sons" and worships the feet of ignorant jackass like Rev. Wright, I'll be sure to let you know.

The only thing I ever wanted to know about you, BR, is who you really are here at ST. Because there is no possible way you are a real, carbon lifeform with a conscience and an opinion.

And if you are, then you have disproved God's existence by your very acting of breathing.

LMAO at you yet again cum bubble boy! .... I have been posting here for over a year now. how am I a troll? and no son I do not worship Rev. Wright. he is a preacher for silly liberals like you.

[xtremesteven33]

Politicians use "Jesus" and "God" as a crutch to get votes/support.

Christians shouldnt get too excited when they say these things, its all part of their gimmick.

[MiamiHeat]

The prayers are customary. Big deal. Whose rights have been injured?


All people who believe in other major religions and those who aren't a part of religion.

It's our country too. We voted too. This is not just a Judeo-Christian country, get your facts straight.

Everyone has to be included and RESPECTED. -Especially when dealing with the inauguration of the President. He is EVERYONE'S President. Be respectful.

[FromWayDowntown]

Yes, I know that it's not in the Constitution. It should be. That's not the point.

religion has no place in government. are we to allow presidents to pray and make their decisions based voices in their head ?

we both agree

Are you saying that a religious person who wins the office of the Presidency should be required to renounce his or her religious beliefs upon assuming office?

The Constitution has two religious guarantees: one that prevents the government from sponsoring/endorsing religion (as the Establishment Clause is understood), but another that ensures that each person (no matter who that person is or what office that person holds) can be religiously sovereign. To say that the President is constitutionally-prohibited from praying would be to deprive the President of his or her constitutional right to free exercise.

[EricB]

The use of seperation of church in state has been 100% misconstrued to what it was originally intended, and the OP is one of those that has contributed to it.

[DarrinS]

Maybe we should recall all U.S. currency.

It has "In God We Trust" on it. GASP! :wow

[FromWayDowntown]

And civic religion in ceremonies involving adults (who presumably are less subject to coercion) has routinely been upheld by the Courts as something short of a threatened establishment of religion. Thus, the hiring of chaplains in the military, the utterance of prayers at substantial ceremonies, and the invocation of a deity on things like national seals, coins, and in national pledges has been deemed to be constitutionally-permissible. That's true even when those things are done in sectarian ways. The same is true of multi-denominational holiday displays (a creche alone is unconstitutional, but a creche with Santa and Rudolph nearby and a menorah on the other side is okay).

The Constitution doesn't forbid the intersection of church and state; it prohibits the state from favoring the church. And it doesn't forbid state officials from being religious; it prohibits state officials from using those positions -- the machinery of the State -- to enforce favoritism for one religion over another or from favoring religion over the absence of religion.

[MiamiHeat]

Are you saying that a religious person who wins the office of the Presidency should be required to renounce his or her religious beliefs upon assuming office?

The Constitution has two religious guarantees: one that prevents the government from sponsoring/endorsing religion (as the Establishment Clause is understood), but another that ensures that each person (no matter who that person is or what office that person holds) can be religiously sovereign. To say that the President is constitutionally-prohibited from praying would be to deprive the President of his or her constitutional right to free exercise.

Duh. Everyone has a RIGHT TO BELIEVE WHATEVER THEY WANT. This is evident in my postings.

The point is

1) DON'T exclude others in your prayers by using overtly christian prayers

and to go even further..

2) keep it to yourself.

[EricB]

The Constitution doesn't forbid the intersection of church and state; it prohibits the state from favoring the church. And it doesn't forbid state officials from being religious; it prohibits state officials from using those positions -- the machinery of the State -- to enforce favoritism for one religion over another or from favoring religion over the absence of religion.


THANK YOU.

[CubanMustGo]

2) keep it to yourself.

Freedom of expression.

[EricB]

Duh. Everyone has a RIGHT TO BELIEVE WHATEVER THEY WANT. This is evident in my postings.

The point is

1) DON'T exclude others in your prayers by using overtly christian prayers

and to go even further..

2) keep it to yourself.


Practice what you preach.

[MiamiHeat]

to enforce favoritism for one religion over another or from favoring religion over the absence of religion.

using overtly christian prayers is favoritism over the other religions and everyone else.

[BRHornet45]

MiamiHeat and DarkReign.... go bow down to your piece of wood or your Hawk or whatever you pray to. The fact is that the overwhelming majority of the country has Christian beliefs. Regardless if you like it or not thats how it is. cry me a river sons

[DarrinS]

Duh. Everyone has a RIGHT TO BELIEVE WHATEVER THEY WANT. This is evident in my postings.

The point is

1) DON'T exclude others in your prayers by using overtly christian prayers

and to go even further..

2) keep it to yourself.


This is a predominantly Judeo-Christian country. Our consitution is based on core values that derive from Judeo-Christian philosophy.

</thread>

[EricB]

using overtly christian prayers is favoritism over the other religions and everyone else.


Wrong.


BTW, you wanting the prayers to be held out is a way of supression as well.

So again, practice what you preach.

[MiamiHeat]

Freedom of expression.

Obama is an elected official, big difference.

The people voted for him. Not just Judeo-Chrisitans, but everyone. Government has to REPRESENT THE PEOPLE and you cannot just FAVOR ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE OVER THE OTHER.

That's not the american way

[DarrinS]

using overtly christian prayers is favoritism over the other religions and everyone else.



Well, we also don't allow "honor" killings, cut of people's hands, or stone to death victims of rape.

[MiamiHeat]

This is a predominantly Judeo-Christian country. Our consitution is based on core values that derive from Judeo-Christian philosophy.

</thread>

We were also racist and said blacks were 1/3 of a human being.

Times have changed. Should the USA kick out all Muslims, Hindus etc?

THERE IS NO ARGUING THIS.

THE CORRECT SOLUTION IS TO BE RESPECTFUL AND INCLUDE EVERYONE.

Have a UNIVERSAL prayer with no specific mention from specific religions

[romad_20]

We were also racist and said blacks were 1/3 of a human being.



Not 1/3.

3/5

[BRHornet45]

MiamiHeat what do you worship? a piece of wood? a Hawk? or a Cow? just curious

[DarrinS]

We were also racist and said blacks were 1/3 of a human being.

Times have changed. Should the USA kick out all Muslims, Hindus etc?

THERE IS NO ARGUING THIS.

THE CORRECT SOLUTION IS TO BE RESPECTFUL AND INCLUDE EVERYONE.

Have a UNIVERSAL prayer with no specific mention from specific religions



People need to integrate into our society, not vice versa.

[MiamiHeat]

People need to integrate into our society, not vice versa.

Hypocrite. Now you preach suppression and force other people to be like you or they have no place ?

HAH

[CubanMustGo]

Hypocrite. Now you preach suppression and force other people to be like you or they have no place ?

HAH

But that's exactly what you're demanding of Obama.

[DarrinS]

Hypocrite. Now you preach suppression and force other people to be like you or they have no place ?

HAH


That's not what I said.

[JamStone]

This thread is ridiculous. You're getting your ass hurt over the opening prayer. If the new president was Muslim, the opening prayer would have had a Muslim feel. If the new president were Jewish, the prayer would have had Jewish subtleties. Get over yourself. It was an opening prayer. I didn't particularly like that it was overtly Christian, but today and everything about today isn't about the opening prayer.

Obama SPECIFICALLY mentioned and addressed Muslims, Hindus, Jewish, and NON BELIEVERS in his speech. You're making too much over an opening prayer that expressed the faith of the incoming president. Deal with it.

[MiamiHeat]

But that's exactly what you're demanding of Obama.

I am asking for all government to be universal to include all

instead of christian prayers, a universal prayer so everyone can be included

instead of "God of Israel" just say "God of all of us"

[DarkReign]

MiamiHeat and DarkReign.... go bow down to your piece of wood or your Hawk or whatever you pray to.

Who says I pray at all? Who says I need guidance from anyone, spirtual or otherwise, ever?


The fact is that the overwhelming majority of the country has Christian beliefs. Regardless if you like it or not thats how it is. cry me a river sons

This is true. But then, as expected, you seem to have categorized me as someone who thinks Obama should not have had a prayer in his Inauguration.

Typical.

[MiamiHeat]

If the new president were Jewish, the prayer would have had Jewish subtleties.

you really believe that?

[Winehole23]

That's not what I said.He doesn't listen, Darrin. MH does monologue, not conversation.

[FromWayDowntown]

Duh. Everyone has a RIGHT TO BELIEVE WHATEVER THEY WANT. This is evident in my postings.

The point is

1) DON'T exclude others in your prayers by using overtly christian prayers

and to go even further..

2) keep it to yourself.

This coming from the person who asked:


are we to allow presidents to pray and make their decisions based voices in their head ?

So, are we to allow Presidents to do such things or should we prohibit that altogether?

[BRHornet45]

Who says I pray at all? Who says I need guidance from anyone, spirtual or otherwise, ever?



This is true. But then, as expected, you seem to have categorized me as someone who thinks Obama should not have had a prayer in his Inauguration.

Typical.


so son you follow the Hawk ... thats cool. MiamiHeat what do you worship?

[JamStone]

you really believe that?

Absolutely.

You worry about a prayer by a person who will have no impact on this presidential administration.

Why not commend the actual President of the United States who did INCLUDE other religions, including non-believers of any faith, who actually will run the administration and government?

You seem dead-set on bitching about something that doesn't even matter.

[DarkReign]

You seem dead-set on bitching about something that doesn't even matter.

Agreed.

[angel_luv]

This is the prayer you guys are talking about right? I did not get to hear it.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=86632




Almighty God, our Father, everything we see, and everything we can't see, exists because of you alone.

It all comes from you, it all belongs to you, it all exists for your glory.

History is your story.



The Scripture tells us, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one." And you are the compassionate and merciful one. And you are loving to everyone you have made.

Now today, we rejoice not only in America's peaceful transfer of power for the 44th time, we celebrate a hinge point of history with the inauguration of our first African-American president of the United States.

We are so grateful to live in this land, a land of unequaled possibility, where the son of an African immigrant can rise to the highest level of our leadership. And we know today that Dr. King and a great cloud of witnesses are shouting in heaven.

Give to our new president, Barack Obama, the wisdom to lead us with humility, the courage to lead us with integrity, the compassion to lead us with generosity.

Bless and protect him, his family, Vice President Biden, the Cabinet and every one of our freely elected leaders.

Help us, O God, to remember that we are Americans, united not by race or religion or blood, but to our commitment to freedom and justice for all.

When we focus on ourselves, when we fight each other, when we forget you, forgive us.

When we presume that our greatness and our prosperity is ours alone, forgive us.

When we fail to treat our fellow human beings and all the earth with the respect that they deserve, forgive us.

And as we face these difficult days ahead, may we have a new birth of clarity in our aims, responsibility in our actions, humility in our approaches and civility in our attitudes – even when we differ.

Help us to share, to serve and to seek the common good of all.

May all people of good will today join together to work for a more just, a more healthy, and a more prosperous nation and a peaceful planet.

And may we never forget that one day, all nations, and all people, will stand accountable before you.

We now commit our new president and his wife, Michelle, and his daughters, Malia and Sasha, into your loving care.

I humbly ask this in the name of the one who changed my life – Yeshua, Isa, Jesus, [Spanish pronunciation], Jesus – who taught us to pray:

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name.

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread.

And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil, for Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever.

Amen.

[balli]

Lowery's was way cooler than Warren's.


God of our weary years, God of our silent tears, thou who has brought us thus far along the way, thou who has by thy might led us into the light, keep us forever in the path, we pray, lest our feet stray from the places, our God, where we met thee, lest our hearts, drunk with the wine of the world, we forget thee. Shadowed beneath thy hand may we forever stand -- true to thee, O God, and true to our native land.

We truly give thanks for the glorious experience we've shared this day. We pray now, O Lord, for your blessing upon thy servant, Barack Obama, the 44th president of these United States, his family and his administration. He has come to this high office at a low moment in the national and, indeed, the global fiscal climate. But because we know you got the whole world in your hand, we pray for not only our nation, but for the community of nations. Our faith does not shrink, though pressed by the flood of mortal ills.

For we know that, Lord, you're able and you're willing to work through faithful leadership to restore stability, mend our brokenness, heal our wounds and deliver us from the exploitation of the poor or the least of these and from favoritism toward the rich, the elite of these.

We thank you for the empowering of thy servant, our 44th president, to inspire our nation to believe that, yes, we can work together to achieve a more perfect union. And while we have sown the seeds of greed -- the wind of greed and corruption, and even as we reap the whirlwind of social and economic disruption, we seek forgiveness and we come in a spirit of unity and solidarity to commit our support to our president by our willingness to make sacrifices, to respect your creation, to turn to each other and not on each other.

And now, Lord, in the complex arena of human relations, help us to make choices on the side of love, not hate; on the side of inclusion, not exclusion; tolerance, not intolerance.

And as we leave this mountaintop, help us to hold on to the spirit of fellowship and the oneness of our family. Let us take that power back to our homes, our workplaces, our churches, our temples, our mosques, or wherever we seek your will.

Bless President Barack, First Lady Michelle. Look over our little, angelic Sasha and Malia.

We go now to walk together, children, pledging that we won't get weary in the difficult days ahead. We know you will not leave us alone, with your hands of power and your heart of love.

Help us then, now, Lord, to work for that day when nation shall not lift up sword against nation, when tanks will be beaten into tractors, when every man and every woman shall sit under his or her own vine and fig tree, and none shall be afraid; when justice will roll down like waters and righteousness as a mighty stream.

Lord, in the memory of all the saints who from their labors rest, and in the joy of a new beginning, we ask you to help us work for that day when black will not be asked to get back, when brown can stick around -- (laughter) -- when yellow will be mellow -- (laughter) -- when the red man can get ahead, man -- (laughter) -- and when white will embrace what is right.

Let all those who do justice and love mercy say amen.

AUDIENCE: Amen!

REV. LOWERY: Say amen --

AUDIENCE: Amen!

REV. LOWERY: -- and amen.

AUDIENCE: Amen! (Cheers, applause.)

[JamStone]

Dr. Lowery's benediction:

eQADRHjXnbM

[Ignignokt]

Wow!!

The perfect recipe for an entertaining thread in the political forum is here!

Angel Luv, Miami Heat, and BRhornet.

It's Earth, Wind and Fire in that order respectively!!LOL!!

[angel_luv]

It's Earth, Wind and Fire in that order respectively!!LOL!!

How so?

I didn't know the music group had a girl in it.

[Ignignokt]

How so?

I didn't know the music group had a girl in it.

this is totally so angel luv.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MWD6Bn_0H4&feature=PlayList&p=17808E27EFC99D3A&playnext=1&index=76

[implacable44]

When I give a shit what a troll whose call sign is "sons" and worships the feet of ignorant jackass like Rev. Wright, I'll be sure to let you know.

The only thing I ever wanted to know about you, BR, is who you really are here at ST. Because there is no possible way you are a real, carbon lifeform with a conscience and an opinion.

And if you are, then you have disproved God's existence by your very acting of breathing.

Rev. Lowery took Rev. Wright's place.

the prayer was not overtly Christian - check the doctrinal beliefs on the church's website -- not in tune with "christianity"

[baseline bum]

It won't be too long before we have an openly-atheist president again. The bible-beaters are a dying breed.

[Spurminator]

I bet he'll still have an invocation and benediction though.

[johnsmith]

Wgaf???????????

[FreeMason]

I was lmao watching that prayer thinking the left's hero was elected and they still had to sit through that shit.

And then placing hand on the bible swearing to uphold the constitution..lolololol... what a joke that is.

[xtremesteven33]

this is totally so angel luv.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MWD6Bn_0H4&feature=PlayList&p=17808E27EFC99D3A&playnext=1&index=76



:lol

[MiamiHeat]

What has been Christianity’s fruits? Superstition, Bigotry and Persecution. - James Madison

[implacable44]

What has been Christianity’s fruits? Superstition, Bigotry and Persecution. - James Madison

wow - way to pull out one james madison quote -- out of context.

[MiamiHeat]

My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them.

- Abraham Lincoln

[MiamiHeat]

When the Know-Nothings get control, it [the Declaration of Independence] will read: "All men are created equal except negroes, foreigners and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.

-- Abraham Lincoln, letter to Joshua F Speed, August 24, 1855

Yes, Abraham Lincoln didn't like Christianity very much. He routinely called christians "fools" in his private letters and conversations to friends, judges and military leaders.

Politicians use religion because you - the sheeple populace, believe in it. They do it for you.

No intelligent free thinker can honestly believe in God.

[JamStone]

No intelligent free thinker would have such a hissy fit over a prayer in an inauguration that has no bearing on the administration or the government.

[Winehole23]

Yes, Abraham Lincoln didn't like Christianity very much. He routinely called christians "fools" and "know-nothings" in his private letters and conversations to friends, judges and military leaders.A swing and a miss. The Know-Nothings were anti-Catholic, anti-Jewish nativists.

http://law.jrank.org/pages/8005/Know-Nothing-Party.html

[MiamiHeat]

A swing and a miss. The Know-Nothings were anti-Catholic, anti-Jewish nativists.

http://law.jrank.org/pages/8005/Know-Nothing-Party.html

You fail to realize that they were Protestant Christians.

They were called Know-Nothings because they would respond "I know nothing" when asked about their membership.

They are still a symbol of what organized religion brings to humanity, and Lincoln did not like any of it.

[MiamiHeat]

nt

[Winehole23]

You fail to realize that they were Protestant Christians.You assume I did. But that only makes you an ass.

You failed to realize the Know Nothings were a political movement, not a generic moniker for Christians.

[ElNono]

As long as he doesn't do things 'because God told me to', I'm ok with it...

[jack sommerset]

Hilter was a Christian. Perhaps its time to leave religion out of politics

[2centsworth]

Hilter was a Christian. Perhaps its time to leave religion out of politics

dumb.

[Ya Vez]

stalin, mao and pol pot were athiest....

[jack sommerset]

dumb.

Nice take on the biggest mass murders of all time

[MannyIsGod]

I did not like Warren's prayer one bit. I thought it was poorly constructed, extremely exclusive, and far too long. I enjoyed the prayer given at the end, however, and feel it was a farm more fitting example of what I believe i appropriate in these situations.

[Cry Havoc]

Nice take on the biggest mass murders of all time

Fail.


You fail to realize that they were Protestant Christians.

They were called Know-Nothings because they would respond "I know nothing" when asked about their membership.

They are still a symbol of what organized religion brings to humanity, and Lincoln did not like any of it.

Fail.


Hilter was a Christian. Perhaps its time to leave religion out of politics

Godwin.

/thread.

[Winehole23]

using overtly christian prayers is favoritism over the other religions and everyone else.I missed the invocation the first time around, but it turns out it was a bit of a mish-mash.

Not that it would make any difference to you, MH, but Warren tipped his hat (http://www.usnews.com/mobile/blogs/god-and-country/2009/1/20/rick-warrens-invocation-invokes-judaism-islam.html) to both Judaism and Islam in the invocation.

His citation of the Shema (http://www.jewfaq.org/prayer/shema.htm) seems to have caused minor consternation (http://www.atlargely.com/2009/01/why-is-warren-reciting-the-shema-.html) among some Jews for trivializing the most sacred prayer of Judaism; his reference to God as the "compassionate and merciful one" echoes a standard opening from the Koran: Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim.(In the name of Allah, the most compassionate, the most merciful.) Interestingly, it's the fundamentalists who are complaining the most about this.

Also, his version of the Our Father included the interpolation "for thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, for ever and ever" which Roman Catholics do not say.

The ecumenical gesture was purely rhetorical from what I could see. The only participants in the inauguration were protestant Christians. No rabbi, no Catholic priest, no other clergy were represented.

Just curious, does anyone know if this is much different from previous inaugurals?

[anakha]

:lol at the OP getting owned on the definition of 'separation of Church and State', then thinking that quoting anti-Christian statements validates his original argument.

[BRHornet45]

I did not like Warren's prayer one bit. I thought it was poorly constructed, extremely exclusive, and far too long. I enjoyed the prayer given at the end, however, and feel it was a farm more fitting example of what I believe i appropriate in these situations.

LMAO typical. leave it up to Manny to enjoy that last ridiculous "prayer" at the end.

[MannyIsGod]

Don't worry - I'm sure he was praying for honorless liars too, BR.

[BRHornet45]

Don't worry - I'm sure he was praying for honorless liars too, BR.

what about hypocritical frauds like yourself? were you included in that prayer too!?

[DarkReign]

what about hypocritical frauds like yourself? were you included in that prayer too!?

Umm, question mark before exclamation point. But whatever, cracker.

[BRHornet45]

Umm, question mark before exclamation point. But whatever, cracker.

lol cum bubble boy

[Darrin]

During the inauguration of Obama, 2 big problems :

1) They were STILL using an overtly Christian prayer.

2) Why do they continue to use religion in these things in the first place?



No respect to other religions and those who don't believe in boogiemen. You just don't do that. If they are even going to have a prayer, it NEEDS to be universal. No mentions of "God of Israel" and other judeo-christian signals.


I hear you, but it won't change soon. I am tired of politicians referencing the good book.

[LnGrrrR]

Look, I'm atheist, and relatively hardcore, but I rarely have problems with speeches. I think they're kinda dumb, but hey, it's not harming me any. As long as they don't make me bow my head, I could care less.
I did like the shoutout to non-believers. Pleasantly surprised Obama threw that in there.

[MiamiHeat]

Look, I'm atheist, and relatively hardcore, but I rarely have problems with speeches. I think they're kinda dumb, but hey, it's not harming me any. As long as they don't make me bow my head, I could care less.
I did like the shoutout to non-believers. Pleasantly surprised Obama threw that in there.

absolutely. i am very glad obama included everyone in his speech, hindus, etc...

[ClingingMars]

Are you saying that a religious person who wins the office of the Presidency should be required to renounce his or her religious beliefs upon assuming office?

The Constitution has two religious guarantees: one that prevents the government from sponsoring/endorsing religion (as the Establishment Clause is understood), but another that ensures that each person (no matter who that person is or what office that person holds) can be religiously sovereign. To say that the President is constitutionally-prohibited from praying would be to deprive the President of his or her constitutional right to free exercise.

+1

I loved how Warren did the prayer and applaud Obama for choosing him.

-Mars

[Wild Cobra]

I'm appalled that this thread has relevance. Prayers in no way violate the 'establishment clause.'

[dg7md]

I thought the mere mention of non-believers in Obama's speech was extraordinary.

This is right, I was very surprised when we were acknowledged and not condemned. Another positive point for Obama in my eyes.

[Cry Havoc]

This is right, I was very surprised when we were acknowledged and not condemned. Another positive point for Obama in my eyes.

Not all people of faith seek to condemn those who do not agree with them. Please do not think that Obama is a rarity. The idiots simply speak much more loudly, and are consequently much more noticeable.

[MannyIsGod]

what about hypocritical frauds like yourself? were you included in that prayer too!?

Well, its well documented how you're a liar but just how am I a hypocrite or a fraud?