Ludden: Bryant’s Defense Never Rests Against James

[duncan228]

Bryant’s defense never rests against James (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AnTOkFLTbwFzD0gtXYDxWRK8vLYF?slug=jy-cavslakers012009&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)
By Johnny Ludden

LOS ANGELES – Down to three healthy digits on his shooting hand, his evening yet to stretch from court to X-ray machine, Kobe Bryant dug his shoulder into LeBron James’ chest, bumped him back then bumped him again. James yielded a sliver of space, and that was all Bryant needed. He spun on his toes, lifted in the air and released a perfect rainbow of a shot that dropped through the net.

On this night, the highlights were few and far between for Bryant, unless you consider herding James into a corral of 7-footers must-see TV. And maybe that was the biggest statement the Los Angeles Lakers made with their 105-88 victory over the Cleveland Cavaliers. Bryant shared the floor with James for the first time this season, the reigning MVP versus the current favorite, and if Kobe proved anything it was this: With these Lakers, he doesn’t always have to be, well, Kobe.

There was a time not too long ago when Bryant needed the big stage, the marquee matchup, to reassert his greatness. LeBron … Dwyane Wade … Paul Pierce, they all gave him the chance to size up his game. Was there anything more exciting than watching Kobe try to go shot-for-shot with one of his rivals?

Kobe and LeBron still had their mano-y-mano moments on Monday, including one brief stretch in the fourth quarter where James followed Bryant’s 3-pointer with a long jumper. One minute later, Bryant buried a turnaround over James’ head then delivered the shot of the night, dusting off James with a bump, and throwing in a floater as he drifted far left of the rim. But for all the hype surrounding their meeting, neither Bryant nor James defined the game with their shot-making. Bryant, who totaled 20 points, 12 assists, six rebounds and five turnovers, instead picked his spots, content to help the Lakers’ big men exploit their size advantage inside.

“I think Kobe still comes to the games looking for challenges night in and night out,” Lakers coach Phil Jackson said. “I think just his challenge level has become a little more refined. He does more of what the team needs to do.”

Of late, that’s also meant taking on the primary assignment of guarding the opposing team’s top perimeter scorer. While the Cavs tried to keep James out of foul trouble by not putting him on Bryant until the fourth quarter, Bryant guarded James from the moment they stepped on the court. The Lakers gave Bryant help on pick-on-rolls and loaded up their defense so that Bryant always seemed to be funneling James into a crowd. James finished with 23 points on 25 shots with six turnovers.

Jackson said Bryant asked to stay on James even after Trevor Ariza, the Lakers’ other credible perimeter defender, checked into the game. Bryant joked that he and Ariza fought for the assignment. “Big brother,” Bryant said, “won out.”

“If he’s going to go off for a big night, I’ll sleep much better if he does it on me as opposed to going to sleep wishing I could have guarded him in those situations and maybe tried something different,” Bryant said. “If he’s going to have a big night, I want to take the responsibility.”

Bryant has started to take that assignment more frequently. He guarded Wade for much of the Lakers’ victory over Miami eight days earlier. And when San Antonio Spurs guard Roger Mason beat the Lakers last week with a clutch shot in the closing seconds? The inbound pass went to Mason because Manu Ginobili had been unable to separate from Bryant.

The Lakers can afford to have Bryant expend more energy on the defensive end of the floor because they don’t lack for scoring on the other. That was evident Monday when Bryant dislocated his right ring finger after diving for the ball less than two minutes into the game. He grabbed the finger in pain and quickly motioned to the sideline for help.

“To be honest with you, when I did it, I looked at my hand, felt the finger and … I thought I was done, period,” Bryant said. “It scared the hell out of me.

“I thought I had two fingers on one. It was disgusting.”

Lakers trainer Gary Vitti popped the finger back in place during a timeout. Bryant stayed in the game, but didn’t seem to have too much confidence in his finger, catching one pass with only his left hand. He served as the Lakers’ playmaker for most of the first half before drilling a jump shot over James with a tenth of a second left in the second quarter.

“With this particular injury, to be honest with you, if Gary would have told me to get off the court,” Bryant said, “I would have gotten off the court.”

James isn’t sure how much that would have helped his Cavs, who were missing starters Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Delonte West. “They’ve got a lot more than Kobe Bryant,” James said.

Bryant has realized that as well. As much as this game was billed as a meeting between the league’s top two MVP candidates, what was more impressive was that both teams entered the evening leading their respective conferences. And the very thing that works against Bryant in the MVP race is the same thing that gives him his greatest chance at a fourth championship: No other team in the league can match the depth of his supporting cast.

Bryant already has his MVP trophy. He’ll live if he has to cede the award to James this season. The honor has begun to ring hollow more often than not anyway; only twice in the past 10 years has the league MVP also won the championship.

On Monday, Bryant was happy enough to walk off with the win. X-rays on his finger were negative and he said his latest injury didn’t impact the torn tendon in his right pinky he suffered last season. Bryant doesn’t expect to miss any time, but his finger was still “throbbing” after the game. He might have to continue to alter his stroke as he did in the second half when he used primarily his index and middle fingers to launch the ball.

Bryant didn’t sound too concerned. He’s still got three working fingers left. If this season has taught him anything, it’s that he doesn’t always have to lift these Lakers by himself.

[Medvedenko]

Good article...and I bet if the game was reversed and Lebron held Kobe in check with a dislocated finger ESPN would ask for MLK day to be changed to Lebron day and give him the MVP that night.

[JamStone]

Kobe defined.

“If he’s going to go off for a big night, I’ll sleep much better if he does it on me as opposed to going to sleep wishing I could have guarded him in those situations and maybe tried something different,” Bryant said. “If he’s going to have a big night, I want to take the responsibility.”

He's still a douchebag and an egomaniac, but you just cannot deny his competitive fire and how that plays a role in what type of player he is.

[Medvedenko]

Kobe defined.

“If he’s going to go off for a big night, I’ll sleep much better if he does it on me as opposed to going to sleep wishing I could have guarded him in those situations and maybe tried something different,” Bryant said. “If he’s going to have a big night, I want to take the responsibility.”

He's still a douchebag and an egomaniac, but you just cannot deny his competitive fire and how that plays a role in what type of player he is.

That's a dangerous attitude though...let's say that you know you can't gaurd said player better than Ariza but you still demand it and fail. That doesn't make you a better man or a better leader. That's my only problem, however you can't question his desire and passion for the game.

[JamStone]

You might have a case if Amare Stoudemire or Carmelo Anthony were making that statement, but it's Kobe, who plays all-NBA caliber defense. It's not like Ariza can body up LeBron better. Ariza might have a couple inches on Kobe, but certainly isn't any more capable of containing LeBron from a strength or bulk standpoint. Not a dangerous attitude or bad comment at all coming from a guy that really does compete on the defensive end and is good at it.

[Medvedenko]

I hear ya, however it has got Kobe in trouble in the past...especially on the offensive side. Defensively that's what you want as a player to take on challenges and not shy away.

[timvp]

If Kobe's so good at defense, why has he always guarded Bowen when the Spurs and Lakers play? I remember that time he tried to guard Parker ....... and gave up after three possessions.

[Medvedenko]

If Kobe's so good at defense, why has he always guarded Bowen when the Spurs and Lakers play? I remember that time he tried to guard Parker ....... and gave up after three possessions.


It's interesting that you've turned into a Kobe hater over the years. Just enjoy a legend when you see him. You'll be telling your grandchildren that you saw Kobe play in person.

[ElNono]

It's interesting that you've turned into a Kobe hater over the years. Just enjoy a legend when you see him. You'll be telling your grandchildren that you saw Kobe play in person.

He can tell his grandchildren he saw Tim Duncan play in person, and he won't have to explain to his grandchildren what a rapist is...

[JamStone]

If Kobe's so good at defense, why has he always guarded Bowen when the Spurs and Lakers play? I remember that time he tried to guard Parker ....... and gave up after three possessions.

Because Kobe can't guard Duncan and stopping Duncan is and always will be the number one key to beating the Spurs.

It is pretty amusing seeing one of the most intelligent and generally objective posters like timvp spew Kobe venom from time to time, especially recently.

[cnyc3]

ouch.. but lolz

[Medvedenko]

Because Kobe can't guard Duncan and stopping Duncan is and always will be the number one key to beating the Spurs.

It is pretty amusing seeing one of the most intelligent and generally objective posters like timvp spew Kobe venom from time to time, especially recently.

Exactly...interesting.....
Regardless, Kobe transcends the sport.

[DPG21920]

Because Kobe can't guard Duncan and stopping Duncan is and always will be the number one key to beating the Spurs.

It is pretty amusing seeing one of the most intelligent and generally objective posters like timvp spew Kobe venom from time to time, especially recently.

I am objective for the most part and if you go through my post about the Lakers I do not just hate on Kobe. I greatly respect them and Kobe as a team and player.

The Laker fans are the ones that people have a problem with. Huge difference.

[DrHouse]

It's interesting that you've turned into a Kobe hater over the years. Just enjoy a legend when you see him. You'll be telling your grandchildren that you saw Kobe play in person.

Yup, Spurs fans in general are THE biggest Kobe haters throughout the NBA. It has to do with the fact that their team has been bounced out of the playoffs by Kobe and co. 4 times this decade. There is a lot of hatred in their hearts that they haven't let go of. It's funny because you can clearly see how mad they are when Kobe wins and performs well.

[Purple & Gold]

If Kobe's so good at defense, why has he always guarded Bowen when the Spurs and Lakers play? I remember that time he tried to guard Parker ....... and gave up after three possessions.

:sleep :sleep

[JoeTait75]

Yup, Spurs fans in general are THE biggest Kobe haters throughout the NBA. It has to do with the fact that their team has been bounced out of the playoffs by Kobe and co. 4 times this decade. There is a lot of hatred in their hearts that they haven't let go of. It's funny because you can clearly see how mad they are when Kobe wins and performs well.

Okay, so you've accounted for Kobe hatred among Spurs fans. Can you explain the LeBron hatred among LakeShow fans while you're at it?

[Purple & Gold]

Okay, so you've accounted for Kobe hatred among Spurs fans. Can you explain the LeBron hatred among LakeShow fans while you're at it?

Because they hate the fact that people say he's better then Kobe. Of course those are Kobe fans and not LakeShow fans.

[DrHouse]

Okay, so you've accounted for Kobe hatred among Spurs fans. Can you explain the LeBron hatred among LakeShow fans while you're at it?

I love Lebron. When I talk shit about him it's all in jest. There really isn't anything about him to hate, he's a good guy off the court and on the court for the most part.

Now there is a difference between Laker fan and Kobe fan.

[IronMexican]

What P&G said. And trust me, I hate Kobe fans as much as the next guy.

[DPG21920]

Spurs fans (for the most) part show respect to the Lakers and Kobe. We may hate them, but we respect them and post accordingly. Laker fans are so myopic and cannot see beyond their own shadows of arrogance (not all, but a lot).

[Purple & Gold]

Spurs fans (for the most) part show respect to the Lakers and Kobe. We may hate them, but we respect them and post accordingly. Laker fans are so myopic and cannot see beyond their own shadows of arrogance (not all, but a lot).

:lol :lol are you serious?? spurs fans are just as bad as Laker fans. Ask Mavs and suns fans if they think your arrogant.

[ChumpDumper]

lakerfan's entire self worth is derived from Kobe.

[DPG21920]

:lol :lol are you serious?? spurs fans are just as bad as Laker fans. Ask Mavs and suns fans if they think your arrogant.

You are speaking of how Mavs and Suns fans feel about Ginobili, not the Spurs. I bet you most Mavs and Suns fans, although they hate the Spurs, they respect them. Lakers fans in general do not respect anyone, but worship Kobe blindly.

[Brazil]

Yup, Spurs fans in general are THE biggest Kobe haters throughout the NBA. It has to do with the fact that their team has been bounced out of the playoffs by Kobe and co. 4 times this decade. There is a lot of hatred in their hearts that they haven't let go of. It's funny because you can clearly see how mad they are when Kobe wins and performs well.

DrHouse you are a funny guy, after the game against the Cavs you can see tons of spurs fans giving props to the lakers and Kobe, during and after the game spurs / lakers the vast majority recognized how Kobe is a great player.
You spend your time on this board sucking the Kobe balls starting threads and posting over and over and over saying Kobe is the toughest player in NBA and Lakers own the NBA which is simply funny.

[Purple & Gold]

You are speaking of how Mavs and Suns fans feel about Ginobili, not the Spurs. I bet you most Mavs and Suns fans, although they hate the Spurs, they respect them. Lakers fans in general do not respect anyone, but worship Kobe blindly.

WTF are you talking about. Against Mavs and suns fans all spurs fans do is say 4 Rings Bitch!! Your just crying cause they can't say that against the Lakers.

And in general your talking out of your ass. Your hate for the Lakers clouds your judgment. spurs fans are just as bad as Laker fans. You just won't admit it.

[Medvedenko]

lakerfan's entire self worth is derived from Kobe.


Yup, when he has a good day, so do I....

[DPG21920]

WTF are you talking about. Against Mavs and suns fans all spurs fans do is say 4 Rings Bitch!! Your just crying cause they can't say that against the Lakers.

And in general your talking out of your ass. Your hate for the Lakers clouds your judgment. spurs fans are just as bad as Laker fans. You just won't admit it.

Please link to where I just talk shit about the Lakers without making a valid claim.

I do hate the Lakers, but once again I respect them and I am a realist.

[Purple & Gold]

Lakerfan's entire self worth is derived from their winning 14 Championships.

:toast

[Purple & Gold]

Please link to where I just talk shit about the Lakers without making a valid claim.

I do hate the Lakers, but once again I respect them and I am a realist.

I thought we were talking about fans of a team :wakeup

[DrHouse]

:toast

:toast. And not to mention the best winning % of any team in NBA history along with the most Finals appearances. The Lakers have been in over half of all NBA Finals to date.

Simply the best franchise in basketball.

[ChumpDumper]

See what I mean?

They're fucking hilarious.

[JoeTait75]

:toast

1972, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987-88, 2000-02. That's nine. Impressive number, but not fourteen.

[Purple & Gold]

1972, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987-88, 2000-02. That's nine. Impressive number, but not fourteen.

It's 14 look it up

[DPG21920]

I thought we were talking about fans of a team :wakeup

Exactly. I said point out where I AS A FAN just talk shit about the Lakers.

[JoeTait75]

It's 14 look it up

It's fourteen if you claim the Minneapolis titles. I have no idea why anyone would though.

[Purple & Gold]

:toast. And not to mention the best winning % of any team in NBA history along with the most Finals appearances. The Lakers have been in over half of all NBA Finals to date.

Simply the best franchise in basketball.

Pretty much the Lakers are always relevant. It took the Celtics 20 plus years to be relevant. Easily the best Franchise in basketball.

[Purple & Gold]

It's fourteen if you claim the Minneapolis titles. I have no idea why anyone would though.

Why wouldn't they. It's still the Lakers. As a Dodger fan I respect what they did in Brooklyn. It's 14 Championships get over it.

[Purple & Gold]

Exactly. I said point out where I AS A FAN just talk shit about the Lakers.

I never said you did. What I said you did was not recognize that what you despise in your generalization of Lakers fans is exactly what spurs fans do. It's not that hard to understand.

[JoeTait75]

Why wouldn't they. It's still the Lakers. As a Dodger fan I respect what they did in Brooklyn. It's 14 Championships get over it.

Don't be so touchy. Nine is still a shitload.

[DPG21920]

I never said you did. What I said you did was not recognize that what you despise in your generalization of Lakers fans is exactly what spurs fans do. It's not that hard to understand.

I understand what you are saying, but the number of Laker D-Bag fans >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the number of Spurs D-Bag fans.

[Purple & Gold]

Don't be so touchy. Nine is still a shitload.

14 and stop crying

[DPG21920]

WTF are you talking about. Against Mavs and suns fans all spurs fans do is say 4 Rings Bitch!! Your just crying cause they can't say that against the Lakers.

And in general your talking out of your ass. Your hate for the Lakers clouds your judgment. spurs fans are just as bad as Laker fans. You just won't admit it.


I never said you did. What I said you did was not recognize that what you despise in your generalization of Lakers fans is exactly what spurs fans do. It's not that hard to understand.

[JoeTait75]

14 and stop crying

So were L.A. Lakers fans circa 1971 satisfied with the five titles their franchise won 2,000 miles away in a different city?

[Purple & Gold]

I understand what you are saying, but the number of Laker D-Bag fans >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the number of Spurs D-Bag fans.

In your opinion. But there are tons of more Laker fans then spurs fans so there will be more assholes and more respectful fans as well. Just the fact of large numbers.

[Purple & Gold]

I can't read

[Brazil]

Pretty much the Lakers are always relevant. It took the Celtics 20 plus years to be relevant. Easily the best Franchise in basketball.

Easily the best franchise in bball :king and the worst fans :)

[Purple & Gold]

So were L.A. Lakers fans circa 1971 satisfied with the five titles their franchise won 2,000 miles away in a different city?

Nobody is ever satisfied with past Titles. As a Cleveland fan you might not understand that. But to answer your question Lakers and Dodger fans claim and honor their Titles in their original cities.

[DPG21920]

Take off your blinders. Saying your hate clouds your judgment, then saying I never said you bash the Lakers because you hate them is a contradiction.

So not only are Laker fans whopping ass clowns for the most part, they are intellectually dishonest.

Do not play the numbers game either, % wise, Laker fans = more Kobe nuthugger, a-hole, band wagoners.

[JoeTait75]

Nobody is ever satisfied with past Titles. As a Cleveland fan you might not understand that.

On the contrary. We understand that better than anyone.

[Purple & Gold]

Take off your blinders. Saying your hate clouds your judgment, then saying I never said you bash the Lakers because you hate them is a contradiction.

So not only are Laker fans whopping ass clowns for the most part, they are intellectually dishonest.

Do not play the numbers game either, % wise, Laker fans = more Kobe nuthugger, a-hole, band wagoners.

Fuck you can't read. It clouds your judgment on your generalizations of Lakers fans. Your teams fans are just as bad. And Kobe fans do not equal Laker fans. Most will be gone once Kobe leaves, some will stay. Same as Manu fans or Duncan fans. But I'm wasting my time trying to explain it to you.

[Purple & Gold]

On the contrary. We understand that better than anyone.

Touche

[DPG21920]

I'm wasting my time trying to justify things to myself.











-DPG

[KidCongo]

The whole Laker defense shut LeBron down. Kobe backed LB down once or twice, why can't Bron do that?

[peskypesky]

As a Spurs fan, I hate to say it, but Kobe earned major respect for continuing to play after the dislocated finger, for guarding Lebron, and for doing exactly what was needed for his team to win. Serious props.

[TheMACHINE]

The whole Laker defense shut LeBron down. Kobe backed LB down once or twice, why can't Bron do that?

thats definately one thing he has to work on. With a body that freakishly strong, he should be backing kobe up all day.

[ClingingMars]

LOL @ Laker fans trying to take credit for the Minneapolis titles when at one point there were 8 teams in the league.

-Mars

[YellowFever]

LOL @ Laker fans trying to take credit for the Minneapolis titles when at one point there were 8 teams in the league.

-Mars

If it's good enjough for the NBA record books, it's good enough for us.

[DrHouse]

LOL @ Laker fans trying to take credit for the Minneapolis titles when at one point there were 8 teams in the league.

-Mars

So the Celtics shouldn't take credit for 11 of their titles earned when there were like 10 teams in the league and no salary cap?

[duncan228]

LeBron enjoys challenge Bryant offers (http://www.ohio.com/sports/thomas/37861954.html)
Cavs forward beginning to emphasize defense in matchups with stars
By George M. Thomas
Beacon Journal sports writer

LOS ANGELES: Going into Monday's game against the Los Angeles Lakers, Sasha Pavlovic got the task of guarding Kobe Bryant; most certainly it wouldn't end up that way.

Why? Because LeBron James wants it that way. Flashback to a Sunday afternoon, nationally televised game almost a year ago, when James and Bryant shot hoops the way that Rocky Balboa and Apollo Creed went at one another in two Rocky films. Two players thriving on competition in the national spotlight is what fans got.

''LeBron asks for matchups like that,'' coach Mike Brown said.

It's also something Brown learned working under Gregg Popovich in San Antonio. Toward the end of the game, fans often got Tim Duncan on Shaquille O'Neal.

''It's kind of what we do with LeBron, too,'' he said, ''but now LeBron, because he's mature enough, he's to a point in his career where we don't worry about saving LeBron. LeBron is competitive. He wants guys like Kobe.''

Indeed, James only confirmed Brown's reasoning. Offense has never been the problem with the phenom from Akron St. Vincent-St. Mary, but his defensive game could always use some work. Enter this year, when James has improved significantly on that side of the ball, so much so that Brown continues to wage a campaign to get him recognition.

James views playing against Bryant a challenge.

''Anytime you go against the best in the world, Kobe, Paul Pierce those types of guys, it's always a challenge,'' he said. ''Personally, I love challenges. I love the competitive nature Kobe has.''

But because of the time they shared on the men's U.S. Olympic basketball team, something else has developed there as well. James said they had a hi-and-bye relationship before that. Now, he considers Bryant a friend, having met his family. Then there's the fact that Bryant was on the floor way before James hit the NBA and endured similar experiences, such as bypassing a college playing career.

''I've looked up to him a long time through grade school, high school. To be able to be on the same court and play alongside him was a blessing for me,'' James said.

It may be a blessing now, but the casual gambler would be making a safe wager by assuming James won't be counting that blessing when taking the floor in the Staples Center.

Cavs by the numbers

So how has that increased intensity translated to something tangible for the Cavaliers? The team can claim the greatest improvement in two important defensive categories from last season. The Cavs are allowing 7.7 fewer points per game (96.7 to 89) and chopping the field-goal percentage allowed to 41 percent.

LeBron by the numbers

Coach Brown has argued all season that James deserves recognition for his defensive prowess. A couple of numbers support that contention: Among league small forwards, James leads in steals and blocked shots and is one of just two players to average two blocks and a steal each game.

[ezau]

:toast. And not to mention the best winning % of any team in NBA history along with the most Finals appearances. The Lakers have been in over half of all NBA Finals to date.

Simply the best franchise in basketball.

Are they still also the best for losing the most Finals in NBA history? :flag:

[timvp]

If Kobe's so good at defense, why has he always guarded Bowen when the Spurs and Lakers play? I remember that time he tried to guard Parker ....... and gave up after three possessions.Notice the legitimate and historically accurate question.


It's interesting that you've turned into a Kobe hater over the years. Just enjoy a legend when you see him. You'll be telling your grandchildren that you saw Kobe play in person.


Yup, Spurs fans in general are THE biggest Kobe haters throughout the NBA. It has to do with the fact that their team has been bounced out of the playoffs by Kobe and co. 4 times this decade. There is a lot of hatred in their hearts that they haven't let go of. It's funny because you can clearly see how mad they are when Kobe wins and performs well.


:sleep :sleepNotice how Laker Fan doesn't even attempt to engage in conversation that doesn't revolve around Kobe being the infallible God of hoops.


Because Kobe can't guard Duncan and stopping Duncan is and always will be the number one key to beating the Spurs.

It is pretty amusing seeing one of the most intelligent and generally objective posters like timvp spew Kobe venom from time to time, especially recently.Duncan is undoubtedly great but if Kobe could stop Parker or Ginobili, you would think he'd do so instead of hiding out on Bowen. Wouldn't you agree that if you have a great perimeter stopper on your team that you would have him guard someone who scores more than five points per 48 minutes? Other supposedly great perimeter defenders actually step up to the challenge and guard Parker and Ginobili on a regular basis. Kobe doesn't; thus the question.

And I think the "spew Kobe venom" is relative. I've acknowledge he's a great player many times. He kills the Spurs. I've said there's not a better closer in the world in any sport. But, as seen in this thread, if you question Him, the insecure Kobe fans will attack the questioner and not the question.

[m33p0]

Notice the legitimate and historically accurate question.





Notice how Laker Fan doesn't even attempt to engage in conversation that doesn't revolve around Kobe being the infallible God of hoops.

Duncan is undoubtedly great but if Kobe could stop Parker or Ginobili, you would think he'd do so instead of hiding out on Bowen. Wouldn't you agree that if you have a great perimeter stopper on your team that you would have him guard someone who scores more than five points per 48 minutes? Other supposedly great perimeter defenders actually step up to the challenge and guard Parker and Ginobili on a regular basis. Kobe doesn't; thus the question.

And I think the "spew Kobe venom" is relative. I've acknowledge he's a great player many times. He kills the Spurs. I've said there's not a better closer in the world in any sport. But, as seen in this thread, if you question Him, the insecure Kobe fans will attack the questioner and not the question.
:lol :lmao +10


i'm still amazed lebron doesn't develop a post game. given his size and strength, it's something that should and WOULD give him an advantage at.

[IronMexican]

m33po, clear that cum off you're face.

[JamStone]

Duncan is undoubtedly great but if Kobe could stop Parker or Ginobili, you would think he'd do so instead of hiding out on Bowen. Wouldn't you agree that if you have a great perimeter stopper on your team that you would have him guard someone who scores more than five points per 48 minutes? Other supposedly great perimeter defenders actually step up to the challenge and guard Parker and Ginobili on a regular basis. Kobe doesn't; thus the question.

There's a couple of reasons Kobe doesn't guard Parker or Ginobili on a regular basis, but you talk as if Kobe doesn't ever guard either or is incapable of guarding either. Parker is obviously a tough match-up for anyone to guard, even other elite perimeter defenders. It takes a great deal of energy and endurance to stay in front of Parker for 30+ minutes a game. It's the same reason Michael Jordan rarely guarded the likes of Isiah Thomas or Allen Iverson for the majority of games. That didn't make Jordan not an all league defender. Just a tough match-up for him. It's not even like Pippen took Isiah or Iverson. Neither could match up with the quickness and speed.

Then of course it's about saving Kobe on the defensive end to save his energy for offense and to save him for the end of games. You'll see Kobe match-up on Ginobili in the fourth quarter, just like the last time the two teams met and Kobe denied Ginobili the ball effectively for much of the fourth. Watching Pop do the same thing for Tim Duncan, saving him from fouls earlier in the game against other elite lost post players, you'd think you'd understand the reasoning for Kobe.



And I think the "spew Kobe venom" is relative. I've acknowledge he's a great player many times. He kills the Spurs. I've said there's not a better closer in the world in any sport. But, as seen in this thread, if you question Him, the insecure Kobe fans will attack the questioner and not the question.

Your comments here aren't your only pot shots you've taken on Kobe lately. He had a poor finish the other day and you make a post just to laugh at him not being the closer MJ was. Just to mock him. It's not just one time. It's not just in this thread. You can temper and color your vile all you want with the fake praise you claim to give him, but what good is it to basically say, "he's awesome, but he really sucks." That's what you do. A posting contradiction. You try to make yourself look unbiased and say, "hey, I know he's great." And, then turn around and blast on the guy any chance you can get. Please. You're too smart a poster to pretentiously justify, or worse hide, your Kobe venom.

I like Kobe as a player, but I also think Kobe is a major douchebag and egomaniac. I don't consider myself a blinded "Kobe fan." Yet it's been pretty clear to me that you have a pretty healthy hate for Kobe from your posts on him, regardless of how you try to soften your posts with false and fluffy praise.

[DPG21920]

Is a great defender not being able to guard another player because of a bad match up the same as a great team losing to another team in the playoffs because of a bad match up?

[DPG21920]

And why did Kobe just state that he wanted to start off on Lebron in the first for the exact opposite reason you just gave? He said he did not want to guard him in the 4th after he already had it going. He wanted to prevent him from ever getting it going.


By the way, I think Kobe is a very good defender. It is just that there is logic both ways. If Ariza can guard Parker, then Kobe can. There is no reason to have him stuck on Bowen, unless they truly feel that they do not have to respect the Spurs on offense and it is better served for their team to have all of Kobe's energy on offense.


People are spewing some venom, not because they truly do not respect Kobe or the Lakers; it is because the number of D-bag Laker fans on the board outweighs the logical and cool ones. Nothing more. It gets old hearing their same old bs day after day after day. Talking shit is cool...to a certain point. Then it just clouds everything else.

[stretch]

So the Celtics shouldn't take credit for 11 of their titles earned when there were like 10 teams in the league and no salary cap?

I would love for that to happen. The era of the two most overrated basketball players ever... Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain. Great players, no question, but wouldn't be NEARLY as effective in today's NBA. No 100 point games. No 9-peats or whatever. None of that. They played in what is BY FAR the shittiest era of basketball, and were simply athletes that were ahead of their time. Teams were full of shitty, unathetlic players back then, not to mention a complete lack of defensive strategy in comparison to today.

[m33p0]

m33po, clear that cum off you're face.
nice comeback. really, it is. :rolleyes

[timvp]

There's a couple of reasons Kobe doesn't guard Parker or Ginobili on a regular basis, but you talk as if Kobe doesn't ever guard either or is incapable of guarding either.I talk as if Kobe doesn't ever guard either because he doesn't. That Kobe on Manu we saw last game was one of the very rare times we've seen that matchup in the last seven years. And really, Manu blew his load by the beginning of the fourth so Kobe versus an exhausted Manu wasn't much of a battle.


Parker is obviously a tough match-up for anyone to guard, even other elite perimeter defenders. It takes a great deal of energy and endurance to stay in front of Parker for 30+ minutes a game.Name an elite perimeter defender and they've probably guarded Parker more than Kobe ever has. The few times Kobe guarded Parker, Parker got Kobe into immediate foul trouble and that was scratched from the playbook.


It's the same reason Michael Jordan rarely guarded the likes of Isiah Thomas or Allen Iverson for the majority of games. That didn't make Jordan not an all league defender. Just a tough match-up for him. It's not even like Pippen took Isiah or Iverson. Neither could match up with the quickness and speed.I can buy the excuse for Parker but why not Manu? If MJ or Pippen were around today, you could bet your bottom dollar that they'd both take turns at guarding Manu.

When those Bulls played the Spurs, MJ would always step up to the plate and guard the Spurs' hottest perimeter player. Elliott even a few times got loose on Pippen so MJ switched over to guard him.


Then of course it's about saving Kobe on the defensive end to save his energy for offense and to save him for the end of games. You'll see Kobe match-up on Ginobili in the fourth quarter, just like the last time the two teams met and Kobe denied Ginobili the ball effectively for much of the fourth.That was one game. Last year in the playoffs, Kobe stayed on Bowen or Udoka the whole time. I remember one half PJax switched it up and had Kobe guarding Finley ... but after a few Finley jumpers PJax switched Kobe back to Bowen.


Watching Pop do the same thing for Tim Duncan, saving him from fouls earlier in the game against other elite lost post players, you'd think you'd understand the reasoning for Kobe. Link to where I call Duncan a great regular season defensive player? I call TD out all the time for his weak defensive efforts and for hiding out on scrubs. It's not like a praise TD out of one side of my mouth and question Kobe out of the other side of my mouth. I've never complained about TD not being DPOY (even though most say he should have earned one at some point) because hiding out and saving yourself for the offensive end doesn't make one an elite defender.

Furthermore, it's not like Kobe is a great help defender when he's guarding Bowen. For example, even a defensively challenged player like Dirk sometimes guards Bowen but when he's doing that he can cause havoc by doubling off. Kobe, on the other hand, rarely has been a defensive difference maker throughout the years even though he has the easiest matchup on either team. The only notable thing Kobe has done defensively is to have a first row seat as Bowen has racked up most of his career-best games against his D.


Your comments here aren't your only pot shots you've taken on Kobe lately. He had a poor finish the other day and you make a post just to laugh at him not being the closer MJ was.Put that in context. There were two or three active threads in which Laker Fan was saying Kobe was as good or even a better closer than MJ. For Kobe to fail on the same day Laker Fan was proclaiming his superiority to MJ was indeed funny.



Just to mock him. It's not just one time. It's not just in this thread. You can temper and color your vile all you want with the fake praise you claim to give him, but what good is it to basically say, "he's awesome, but he really sucks." Where is the fake praise? Point it out.

Great player = fact

Great closer = fact

Kills the Spurs = fact

None of that praise is fake.

Although it doesn't mean I like him. I happen to think that Kobe is a conceded, fake and contrived egomaniac who has a history of being a bad teammate, a bad judge of talent and always succumbs to his urgers - on and off the court. I don't know if you want me to apologize for not liking the guy but I've never hid my disdain for Kobe . . . which dates back even to when the Spurs were curbstomping the Lakers back in 1999.

I know Laker Fan says I don't like him because he's killed the Spurs multiple times but that's simply not the root of my issues with him. I like Dirk and Dirk was more of a headache for the Spurs in 2006 than Kobe has ever been. I like Shaq and Shaq was the player who dominated the Spurs in 2001, 2002 and 2004. I just don't like Kobe.


I like Kobe as a player, but I also think Kobe is a major douchebag and egomaniac. :lol Well, I guess we agree on that point.

I'd be perfectly fine not liking Kobe and keeping the Kobe posts to a minimum but in case you haven't noticed this forum has turned into Kobe Central for the last few weeks. I can't sit by and see Kobe get praise such as he's better than MJ, he's more skilled than MJ, he's a better closer than MJ ever was, he has worse teammates than LeBron, he has always had worse teammates than LeBron, he was better and more important than Shaq during the three-peat and whatever else Laker Fan and Kobe Fan had been spewing as of late. Chiming in to try to clarify the actual historical standing of Kobe doesn't mean I'm venomous towards him ... even if I do add some Kobe jokes along the way to see Laker Fan and Kobe Fan squirm.

[Man Mountain]

And why did Kobe just state that he wanted to start off on Lebron in the first for the exact opposite reason you just gave? He said he did not want to guard him in the 4th after he already had it going. He wanted to prevent him from ever getting it going.


By the way, I think Kobe is a very good defender. It is just that there is logic both ways. If Ariza can guard Parker, then Kobe can. There is no reason to have him stuck on Bowen, unless they truly feel that they do not have to respect the Spurs on offense and it is better served for their team to have all of Kobe's energy on offense.


People are spewing some venom, not because they truly do not respect Kobe or the Lakers; it is because the number of D-bag Laker fans on the board outweighs the logical and cool ones. Nothing more. It gets old hearing their same old bs day after day after day. Talking shit is cool...to a certain point. Then it just clouds everything else.

Well said I can't talk Lakerz fans on spurstalk ..... they are like drinking that vinegar water straight otu of a douchebag, vomiting it and then drinking the vomit up with a straw

[Medvedenko]

I talk as if Kobe doesn't ever guard either because he doesn't. That Kobe on Manu we saw last game was one of the very rare times we've seen that matchup in the last seven years. And really, Manu blew his load by the beginning of the fourth so Kobe versus an exhausted Manu wasn't much of a battle.

Name an elite perimeter defender and they've probably guarded Parker more than Kobe ever has. The few times Kobe guarded Parker, Parker got Kobe into immediate foul trouble and that was scratched from the playbook.

I can buy the excuse for Parker but why not Manu? If MJ or Pippen were around today, you could bet your bottom dollar that they'd both take turns at guarding Manu.

When those Bulls played the Spurs, MJ would always step up to the plate and guard the Spurs' hottest perimeter player. Elliott even a few times got loose on Pippen so MJ switched over to guard him.

That was one game. Last year in the playoffs, Kobe stayed on Bowen or Udoka the whole time. I remember one half PJax switched it up and had Kobe guarding Finley ... but after a few Finley jumpers PJax switched Kobe back to Bowen.

Link to where I call Duncan a great regular season defensive player? I call TD out all the time for his weak defensive efforts and for hiding out on scrubs. It's not like a praise TD out of one side of my mouth and question Kobe out of the other side of my mouth. I've never complained about TD not being DPOY (even though most say he should have earned one at some point) because hiding out and saving yourself for the offensive end doesn't make one an elite defender.

Furthermore, it's not like Kobe is a great help defender when he's guarding Bowen. For example, even a defensively challenged player like Dirk sometimes guards Bowen but when he's doing that he can cause havoc by doubling off. Kobe, on the other hand, rarely has been a defensive difference maker throughout the years even though he has the easiest matchup on either team. The only notable thing Kobe has done defensively is to have a first row seat as Bowen has racked up most of his career-best games against his D.

Put that in context. There were two or three active threads in which Laker Fan was saying Kobe was as good or even a better closer than MJ. For Kobe to fail on the same day Laker Fan was proclaiming his superiority to MJ was indeed funny.


Where is the fake praise? Point it out.

Great player = fact

Great closer = fact

Kills the Spurs = fact

None of that praise is fake.

Although it doesn't mean I like him. I happen to think that Kobe is a conceded, fake and contrived egomaniac who has a history of being a bad teammate, a bad judge of talent and always succumbs to his urgers - on and off the court. I don't know if you want me to apologize for not liking the guy but I've never hid my disdain for Kobe . . . which dates back even to when the Spurs were curbstomping the Lakers back in 1999.

I know Laker Fan says I don't like him because he's killed the Spurs multiple times but that's simply not the root of my issues with him. I like Dirk and Dirk was more of a headache for the Spurs in 2006 than Kobe has ever been. I like Shaq and Shaq was the player who dominated the Spurs in 2001, 2002 and 2004. I just don't like Kobe.

:lol Well, I guess we agree on that point.

I'd be perfectly fine not liking Kobe and keeping the Kobe posts to a minimum but in case you haven't noticed this forum has turned into Kobe Central for the last few weeks. I can't sit by and see Kobe get praise such as he's better than MJ, he's more skilled than MJ, he's a better closer than MJ ever was, he has worse teammates than LeBron, he has always had worse teammates than LeBron, he was better and more important than Shaq during the three-peat and whatever else Laker Fan and Kobe Fan had been spewing as of late. Chiming in to try to clarify the actual historical standing of Kobe doesn't mean I'm venomous towards him ... even if I do add some Kobe jokes along the way to see Laker Fan and Kobe Fan squirm.[/

That bolded part basically sums up your opinion of Mr Bean Bryant. It has nothing to do with Kobe the man it's that your forum has been overrun with Kobe praise and you can't stand it. You my as well start cancelling threads if they don't seem to fit your stance and opinion.

Oh and KOBE For Life. Am I a zeolot...sure but we are all witnesses to his greatness and really the only player I would pay money to see....

[timvp]

That bolded part basically sums up your opinion of Mr Bean Bryant. It has nothing to do with Kobe the manActually this is my opinion on Kobe the man . . .


I happen to think that Kobe is a conceded, fake and contrived egomaniac who has a history of being a bad teammate, a bad judge of talent and always succumbs to his urgers - on and off the court.



it's that your forum has been overrun with Kobe praise and you can't stand it.Kobe praise is one thing. Overboard Kobe praise that he's yet to earn is another. And yeah, I can stand it. It's actually pretty funny.


You my as well start cancelling threads if they don't seem to fit your stance and opinion. Yes because SpursTalk is known for threads getting "canceled".


Oh and KOBE For Life. Am I a zeolotAt least you are honest. :tu

Now if only Laker Fan can stop being so insecure that they have to jump on any post that doesn't proclaim Kobe as the greatest.

[JamStone]

Is a great defender not being able to guard another player because of a bad match up the same as a great team losing to another team in the playoffs because of a bad match up?

No. Because player A can be a bad match-up player B has a hard time defending, but player B can be just as bad a match-up for player A to defend, and player B can still outplay player A even if they don't guard one another. So, to the point of this discussion. Kobe might have a hard time guarding Tony Parker but still outplay him statistically and the Lakers win the game. While if a bad match-up between teams leads to one team beating the other, then the team that won is the better team.

Absolutely not the same thing.




And why did Kobe just state that he wanted to start off on Lebron in the first for the exact opposite reason you just gave? He said he did not want to guard him in the 4th after he already had it going. He wanted to prevent him from ever getting it going.

Good question. More of a question for Phil Jackson to answer. I didn't argue that Kobe didn't want to guard either Tony or Manu for entire games. I gave reasons why he hasn't. That's not necessarily Kobe's decision, but rather Phil Jackson's. So, it's not to necessarily say Kobe doesn't want the challenge of guarding Parker or Manu, but rather a coaching decision. But, I can't say that either way with any certainty.



People are spewing some venom, not because they truly do not respect Kobe or the Lakers; it is because the number of D-bag Laker fans on the board outweighs the logical and cool ones. Nothing more. It gets old hearing their same old bs day after day after day. Talking shit is cool...to a certain point. Then it just clouds everything else.

That's fine if some Spurs fans do it in response to jackass Laker fans. I never said it was a problem. I merely was amused by it.

[Medvedenko]

Actually this is my opinion on Kobe the man . . .



Kobe praise is one thing. Overboard Kobe praise that he's yet to earn is another. And yeah, I can stand it. It's actually pretty funny.

Yes because SpursTalk is known for threads getting "canceled".

At least you are honest. :tu

Now if only Laker Fan can stop being so insecure that they have to jump on any post that doesn't proclaim Kobe as the greatest.

Look Timvp, I have huge love for this forum, I've been here almost 5 years, albeit when I joined it was to talk trash, but I've evolved. I love Kobe, is he perfect no, no one is...but he's the greatest player I've seen play. Oh, and I grew up watching MJ and his heroics were mind boggling, however I'm a Laker fan, hence a Kobe fan.

[timvp]

Look Timvp, I have huge love for this forum, I've been here almost 5 years, albeit when I joined it was to talk trash, but I've evolved. I love Kobe, is he perfect no, no one is...but he's the greatest player I've seen play. Oh, and I grew up watching MJ and his heroics were mind boggling, however I'm a Laker fan, hence a Kobe fan.

Do you think Kobe is better than MJ?

[DPG21920]

No. Because player A can be a bad match-up player B has a hard time defending, but player B can be just as bad a match-up for player A to defend, and player B can still outplay player A even if they don't guard one another. So, to the point of this discussion. Kobe might have a hard time guarding Tony Parker but still outplay him statistically and the Lakers win the game. While if a bad match-up between teams leads to one team beating the other, then the team that won is the better team.

Absolutely not the same thing.





Good question. More of a question for Phil Jackson to answer. I didn't argue that Kobe didn't want to guard either Tony or Manu for entire games. I gave reasons why he hasn't. That's not necessarily Kobe's decision, but rather Phil Jackson's. So, it's not to necessarily say Kobe doesn't want the challenge of guarding Parker or Manu, but rather a coaching decision. But, I can't say that either way with any certainty.




That's fine if some Spurs fans do it in response to jackass Laker fans. I never said it was a problem. I merely was amused by it.

I know you understand it. I enjoy having conversations with you. You bring a lot of good takes to the forum.

[JamStone]

I talk as if Kobe doesn't ever guard either because he doesn't. That Kobe on Manu we saw last game was one of the very rare times we've seen that matchup in the last seven years. And really, Manu blew his load by the beginning of the fourth so Kobe versus an exhausted Manu wasn't much of a battle.

Your second sentence contradicts your first. Saying it never happens and then it happening pretty much destroys your argument.



Name an elite perimeter defender and they've probably guarded Parker more than Kobe ever has. The few times Kobe guarded Parker, Parker got Kobe into immediate foul trouble and that was scratched from the playbook.

Tayshaun Prince wouldn't, couldn't, and hasn't guarded Tony Parker any more than Kobe. Now, I realize that calling Prince an elite defender is arguable, but he's still one of the better perimeter defenders. I doubt Raja Bell has guarded Tony Parker much more than Kobe has, and if he has it's not much more. In the past when the Suns really wanted to try to contain Parker better, they'd put Marion on Parker before Raja Bell. Last year, I believe they tried Grant Hill more than Bell. And, you said it right there, Parker is the type of player that is capable of drawing several quick fouls on his defender. That's a great reason to keep Kobe off of Parker for much of the game.



I can buy the excuse for Parker but why not Manu? If MJ or Pippen were around today, you could bet your bottom dollar that they'd both take turns at guarding Manu.

You already admitted Kobe has defended Ginobili. Ok, he hasn't defended him a lot or for large parts of games. But, I am willing to bet that Jordan wouldn't have spent much time on Ginobili either. Even in his prime, Jordan rarely spent large stretches of games defending a player like Reggie Miller just so he wouldn't exert all of his energy chasing him around. Ginobili is the type of player that makes you chase him all over the place. You've watched the Lakers and Spurs match up more than I have, so I'm not challenging your fact that Kobe didn't stop guarding Bowen to defend Manu in last year's playoffs. Seems to me it wasn't that necessary since the Lakers won in five games. Had that series extended to six and/or seven games, I would propose that Kobe would have been one of the main defenders on Ginobili later in the series and in crunch time. Just my personal opinion.



When those Bulls played the Spurs, MJ would always step up to the plate and guard the Spurs' hottest perimeter player. Elliott even a few times got loose on Pippen so MJ switched over to guard him.

All due respect to Sean E., but I don't put him in the same caliber as either Ginobili or Parker in terms of how difficult he was to defend. Same goes for any other former Spurs wing men in the late 80s to late 90s.



That was one game. Last year in the playoffs, Kobe stayed on Bowen or Udoka the whole time. I remember one half PJax switched it up and had Kobe guarding Finley ... but after a few Finley jumpers PJax switched Kobe back to Bowen.

Shrugs. Again, I don't know the entire rationale but again, if that series went to 6 or 7 games, I would be guessing Kobe would take on the challenge of guarding Manu if he got it going.



Link to where I call Duncan a great regular season defensive player? I call TD out all the time for his weak defensive efforts and for hiding out on scrubs. It's not like a praise TD out of one side of my mouth and question Kobe out of the other side of my mouth. I've never complained about TD not being DPOY (even though most say he should have earned one at some point) because hiding out and saving yourself for the offensive end doesn't make one an elite defender.

I don't have a link but nor did I say you said that. I did say that watching Pop and Duncan do the same thing with Duncan's defensive assignments would give you a good indication as to why Kobe is handled the same way defensively.



Furthermore, it's not like Kobe is a great help defender when he's guarding Bowen. For example, even a defensively challenged player like Dirk sometimes guards Bowen but when he's doing that he can cause havoc by doubling off. Kobe, on the other hand, rarely has been a defensive difference maker throughout the years even though he has the easiest matchup on either team. The only notable thing Kobe has done defensively is to have a first row seat as Bowen has racked up most of his career-best games against his D.

Well, that's cool, I guess. Then, Kobe has essentially been a poor defender from what you've seen when the Lakers have played the Spurs. If that's your claim, I won't argue it. You've watched all of those games and I haven't watched all of them, and the ones I have watched, I'm sure I haven't watched as intently as you. So, it is what it is. Kobe doesn't play great defense against the Spurs and can't guard Tony or Manu. From my experience watching Kobe, I've seen laxadazical defensive efforts by him as well. But, I've also seen him play great defense on great players. Again, it is what it is so I'll leave it at that.



Put that in context. There were two or three active threads in which Laker Fan was saying Kobe was as good or even a better closer than MJ. For Kobe to fail on the same day Laker Fan was proclaiming his superiority to MJ was indeed funny.

If you go back, I didn't say you couldn't or shouldn't blast back at Laker fans. Like DPG said, it can be a lot of fun. Shit, you run this messageboard. Obviously, you can do whatever the hell you want to do. I'm just amused by you doing it because in general you're usually a level-headed poster who rarely (from my experience, but hey I don't read every single thread) lets trolls and poster stupidity incite such reactions. Here because of the Laker boobs, you have let it done so, at least a little bit. Hence, my amusement by it.



Where is the fake praise? Point it out.

Great player = fact

Great closer = fact

Kills the Spurs = fact

None of that praise is fake.

Fake praise in that whether or not you believe it, it's been obvious that you still take plenty of glee in blasting on Kobe every chance you get (recently).



Although it doesn't mean I like him. I happen to think that Kobe is a conceded, fake and contrived egomaniac who has a history of being a bad teammate, a bad judge of talent and always succumbs to his urgers - on and off the court. I don't know if you want me to apologize for not liking the guy but I've never hid my disdain for Kobe . . . which dates back even to when the Spurs were curbstomping the Lakers back in 1999.

Again, my initial comment was just that I was amused by the fact that you do have your own personal "urge" to blast on Kobe lately just to make fun of him, whether it's out of just personal venom for the guy or to just throw it back in the face of these asshole Laker fans on the board.



I know Laker Fan says I don't like him because he's killed the Spurs multiple times but that's simply not the root of my issues with him. I like Dirk and Dirk was more of a headache for the Spurs in 2006 than Kobe has ever been. I like Shaq and Shaq was the player who dominated the Spurs in 2001, 2002 and 2004. I just don't like Kobe.

Didn't say you should like the guy. It's pretty obvious you don't. But, as I mentioned in an earlier post, after a bad fourth quarter by Kobe, you made a post just to laugh at him as a "closer." As if Michael Jordan never had a poor fourth quarter in his NBA career... in a middle of the season regular season game, no less. That's the kind of thing that just stinks of disdain.



:lol Well, I guess we agree on that point.

I'd be perfectly fine not liking Kobe and keeping the Kobe posts to a minimum but in case you haven't noticed this forum has turned into Kobe Central for the last few weeks. I can't sit by and see Kobe get praise such as he's better than MJ, he's more skilled than MJ, he's a better closer than MJ ever was, he has worse teammates than LeBron, he has always had worse teammates than LeBron, he was better and more important than Shaq during the three-peat and whatever else Laker Fan and Kobe Fan had been spewing as of late. Chiming in to try to clarify the actual historical standing of Kobe doesn't mean I'm venomous towards him ... even if I do add some Kobe jokes along the way to see Laker Fan and Kobe Fan squirm.

If that's your reasoning for the Kobe hate posts, I'm perfectly cool with it. I see nothing wrong with it. From you, it's still a bit surprising. And, moreover, as with my very initial comment about it, it's amusing to me seeing it come from you. That's all.

[DrHouse]

I'm sitting here laughing my ass off at you guys trying to understand Spur fan's hatred of Kobe Bryant.

Ockham's Razor - The simplest explanation is usually correct.

Kobe Bryant and Phil Jackson have been responsible for crushing the Spur's championship hopes 4 times in this decade alone. They are really the only team that has consistently been able to kick them down a notch. They are like what the Celtics are to the Lakers.

This is the only real reason Spur fan hates Kobe. They hate him because he is a Spur killer and he has ruined their hopes and dreams time and time again. All this other BS about him being a bad guy, teammates, etc. is just that.....BS. If they held every player to the standards they hold Kobe to they wouldn't like anyone in the NBA.

[Medvedenko]

Do you think Kobe is better than MJ?

Yes I think Kobe is a better player than MJ. Also, as I have mentioned in previous posts throughout the years, it has nothing to do based on team accomplishments and accolades. All things being equal is just that...it can't be equal given their different era's. However I will stand by my assertion that Kobe is a better player than MJ from what I have witnessed.

[1Parker1]

Yes I think Kobe is a better player than MJ. Also, as I have mentioned in previous posts throughout the years, it has nothing to do based on team accomplishments and accolades. All things being equal is just that...it can't be equal given their different era's. However I will stand by my assertion that Kobe is a better player than MJ from what I have witnessed.

WHAT????

How can you honestly sit here and assert that you believe Kobe is a better player than MJ. What exactly have you witnessed? Aside from the fact that you want to disregard all of MJ's accomplishments and accolades, what about career stats? What about what MJ did, by HIMSELF, in the Finals 6 times? Yes, he had Pippen, but he was a complimentary player. If Kobe can go ahead and win 6 titles as the main guy on a championship team, then you can even begin to make the comparison.

[Medvedenko]

WHAT????

How can you honestly sit here and assert that you believe Kobe is a better player than MJ. What exactly have you witnessed? Aside from the fact that you want to disregard all of MJ's accomplishments and accolades, what about career stats? What about what MJ did, by HIMSELF, in the Finals 6 times? Yes, he had Pippen, but he was a complimentary player. If Kobe can go ahead and win 6 titles as the main guy on a championship team, then you can even begin to make the comparison.

I believe my arguement is sound proof. Circumstances don't make a player in my eyes, sorry if that bothers you. I'm looking at b-ball talent alone. I also respect your opinion and based on your assessements Jordan is the better player.

[1Parker1]

That's fine, but you're not answering the question. If you're looking at "B-Ball talent alone" then exactly what are you seeing that is making Kobe the better player? MJ shot a much better FG% over the course of his career, he was a much better defender...consistently night in and night out in his career, he hit a LOT more clutch shots and won his team more games alone in the playoffs than Kobe has as the "main guy." You think an MJ led team would have lost by 40+ points in a NBA Finals Game 6?

[Ghazi]

God that is some stupid stuff Medvedenko. Circumstances and accolades disregarded MJ still was a far better player than Kobe is.

[Medvedenko]

That's fine, but you're not answering the question. If you're looking at "B-Ball talent alone" then exactly what are you seeing that is making Kobe the better player? MJ shot a much better FG% over the course of his career, he was a much better defender...consistently night in and night out in his career, he hit a LOT more clutch shots and won his team more games alone in the playoffs than Kobe has as the "main guy." You think an MJ led team would have lost by 40+ points in a NBA Finals Game 6?

That's a lot of conjecture and it comes down to the era of play. You don't think Kobe would have not had a better FG% if it wasn't for zone defenses and don't mention the hand check BS. The scoring of the 80's and early 90's were a lot higher than they are now. I believe Kobe is a better shooter/scorer than MJ. Defensive is very subjective and it comes down to assignments and team play. You bring up the last playoff game Kobe had, what about the ones where he hit the game winning shots or led his team from the brink to win the game. Don't cherry pick and I won't either. Given from what I hear, you'd think Jordan would never lose a game or at least score more than 81 or outscore a team himself after 3 q's (which has never happened until Kobe did it to Dallas). Look you believe MJ is better than let it be. I can totally see your arguement and I'm sure many feel it's the correct one. I just see it differently.

[DPG21920]

:vomit:
That's a lot of conjecture and it comes down to the era of play. You don't think Kobe would have not had a better FG% if it wasn't for zone defenses and don't mention the hand check BS. The scoring of the 80's and early 90's were a lot higher than they are now. I believe Kobe is a better shooter/scorer than MJ. Defensive is very subjective and it comes down to assignments and team play. You bring up the last playoff game Kobe had, what about the ones where he hit the game winning shots or led his team from the brink to win the game. Don't cherry pick and I won't either. Given from what I hear, you'd think Jordan would never lose a game or at least score more than 81 or outscore a team himself after 3 q's (which has never happened until Kobe did it to Dallas). Look you believe MJ is better than let it be. I can totally see your arguement and I'm sure many feel it's the correct one. I just see it differently.

:vomit:

[Ronaldo McDonald]

It's interesting that you've turned into a Kobe hater over the years. Just enjoy a legend when you see him. You'll be telling your grandchildren that you saw Kobe play in person.


stories like the one where he did the "big balls" gesture and still lost the game would be a good start. it'd also be a good way to transition into the concept of sex, which they might not know about at that point. you can then transition into how sex is a sacred act be/w two people, otherwise you might have a big problem like the one Kobe had. then rape etc.

You can use kobe as a way to broach all kinds of topics.

[RsxPiimp]

I believe my arguement is sound proof. Circumstances don't make a player in my eyes, sorry if that bothers you. I'm looking at b-ball talent alone. I also respect your opinion and based on your assessements Jordan is the better player.

so basically you dont like reality

[JoeTait75]

Medvedenko: Watch Games 1 & 2 of the 1986 EC first round. Bulls @ Celtics. MJ going against a better team than Kobe has ever gone up against, matched up with an all-time great perimeter defender in Dennis Johnson, in an impossible road venue, with a supporting cast 10x worse than Kobe has ever been stuck with. Both games are available for viewing on Youtube. Watch them, then come back and explain how Kobe is better than Michael Jordan.

[DrHouse]

Better than MJ.....dunno about that one. In terms of pure talent and skill they are awfully close, but MJ has the mental and defensive edge IMHO.

I still believe Kobe is a more skilled offensive player than MJ. He has better range and a more expanded arsenal IMHO. But in terms of the mental intangibles and defense MJ has him beat. MJ learned over the course of his career how to make the smart and safe play.....Kobe still goes for the impossible shot just because he can make it. I want to see Kobe make the transition that MJ did when he was about 30 into a smarter and more selective player.

[JamStone]

Kobe does have a slightly better jump shot than Michael did, slightly better range. And, I think Kobe has better handles than Michael Jordan had.

Everything else, every other aspect of the game, Michael was superior than Kobe. Plus, Michael had superior athleticism and larger hands.

I don't think there is a sound argument for Kobe being a better player, even if you disregard team accomplishments and individual accolades.