Ranking: The 44 Greatest NBA Players Ive Ever Seen (1980-2008)

[layupdrill]

The Big 44
The 44 Greatest NBA Players I Ever Saw.
(1980 - 2008)
A LayupDrill.com Exclusive


In honor of the inauguration of the 44th President of the United States, President Barrack Obama, I have assembled a comprehensive list of the 44 Greatest NBA Players of my lifetime. Over my lifetime, some of the greatest players the NBA (http://layupdrill.com/2009/01/the-44-greatest-nba-players-i-ever-saw/#) has ever seen have graced the court. You will see some names missing from this list that played before my time, such as Oscar Robertson, Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West, Rick Barry or Bill Russell.
With that being said, check out the list, which ranks the players by what they have accomplished in their career, whether still playing or retired, and not on potential.
44. Gilbert Arenas
43. Derrick Coleman
42. Carmelo Anthony
41. Chris Paul
40. Drazen Petrovic
39. Dirk Nowitzki
38. Alonzo Mourning
37. Ray Allen
36. Larry Johnson
35. Tracy McGrady
34. Chris Webber
33. Mitch Richmond
32. Vince Carter
31. Dwayne Wade
30. Bernard King
29. Steve Nash
28. Paul Pierce
27. Dennis Rodman
26. Kevin McHale
25. David Robinson
24. Kevin Garnett
23. Lebron James
22. Allen Iverson
21. Kevin Johnson
20. Jason Kidd
19. Clyde Drexler
18. John Stockton
17. Dominique Wilkins
16. Reggie Miller
15. Isiah Thomas
14. Gary Payton
13. Patrick Ewing
12. Moses Malone
11. Hakeem Olajuwon

Top 10:
10. Kobe Bryant
9. Karl Malone
8. Tim Duncan
7. Kareem
6. Scottie Pippen
5. Julius Erving
4. Larry Bird
3. Shaq
2. Magic Johnson
1. Michael Jordan

[IronMexican]

Solid list. Scottie is a bit too high, imo.

[layupdrill]

Solid list. Scottie is a bit too high, imo.


Thanks. In regards to Scottie, I remember watching Pip be at times the second best player in the league, and he was the second best player on his own team. All NBA First team defender, and did all the little things that didn't always show up in the stat box for Chicago during the 3 peat years.

[resistanze]

Solid list. Scottie is a bit too high, imo.

And Hakeem too low. At least swap the two.

[layupdrill]

And Hakeem too low. At least swap the two.
When making this honestly, I originally had Duncan and Hakeem switched.

[Ghazi]

Dirk is too low :)

[JoeTait75]

Zeek is too low. Larry Joe Bird should be ahead of Shaq. And I know it's the homer in me talking, but I'd find a spot for Mark Price. He was Steve Nash before Steve Nash.

But appreciate the time you put into it. Solid list for the most part. :toast

[cobbler]

WOW... no James Worthy

[Biggems]

The Big 44
The 44 Greatest NBA Players I Ever Saw.
(1980 - 2008)
A LayupDrill.com Exclusive


In honor of the inauguration of the 44th President of the United States, President Barrack Obama, I have assembled a comprehensive list of the 44 Greatest NBA Players of my lifetime. Over my lifetime, some of the greatest players the NBA (http://layupdrill.com/2009/01/the-44-greatest-nba-players-i-ever-saw/#) has ever seen have graced the court. You will see some names missing from this list that played before my time, such as Oscar Robertson, Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West, Rick Barry or Bill Russell.
With that being said, check out the list, which ranks the players by what they have accomplished in their career, whether still playing or retired, and not on potential.
44. Gilbert Arenas
43. Derrick Coleman
42. Carmelo Anthony
41. Chris Paul
40. Drazen Petrovic
39. Dirk Nowitzki
38. Alonzo Mourning
37. Ray Allen
36. Larry Johnson
35. Tracy McGrady
34. Chris Webber
33. Mitch Richmond
32. Vince Carter
31. Dwayne Wade
30. Bernard King
29. Steve Nash
28. Paul Pierce
27. Dennis Rodman
26. Kevin McHale
25. David Robinson
24. Kevin Garnett
23. Lebron James
22. Allen Iverson
21. Kevin Johnson
20. Jason Kidd
19. Clyde Drexler
18. John Stockton
17. Dominique Wilkins
16. Reggie Miller
15. Isiah Thomas
14. Gary Payton
13. Patrick Ewing
12. Moses Malone
11. Hakeem Olajuwon

Top 10:
10. Kobe Bryant
9. Karl Malone
8. Tim Duncan
7. Kareem
6. Scottie Pippen
5. Julius Erving
4. Larry Bird
3. Shaq
2. Magic Johnson
1. Michael Jordan

no way Ewing was a better player than Robinson. David was the best Center in the NBA aside from Olajuwon throughout the 90s.

[robbie380]

11. Hakeem Olajuwon


9. Karl Malone

6. Scottie Pippen

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[robbie380]

WOW... no James Worthy

derrick coleman was clearly greater than worthy :rollin

[Lakers999]

kobe and shaq needs to be swapped

[pauls931]

Where's barkley on the list? Gotta be more amazing than Derrick Coleman.

[Lakers999]

Where's barkley on the list? Gotta be more amazing than Derrick Coleman.

no barkley or ainge?????? wow... the lists needs editing

[Lakers999]

what bout dennis johnson?
and drazen career just started kicking off before he was killed

[Biggems]

Atlanta - Wilkins, Josh Smith, Rivers
Boston - Bird, McHale, Lewis, Pierce
Charlotte - Okafor
Chicago - Jordan, Pippen
Cleveland - Price, Dougherty, Lebron
Dallas - Blackman, Harper, Dirk
Denver - English, Lever, Kiki, Melo
Detroit - Isiah, Dumars, Rodman, Billups, Rip, Wallace
Golden St. - Richmond, Hardaway, Mullin, SJax
Houston - Olajuwon, Yao
Indiana - Miller
Los Angeles C - Brand, Nixon
Los Angeles L - Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Shaq, Kobe
Memphis - Gay, Miller, Mayo
Miami - Seikaly, Wade
Milwaukee - Sikma, Pressey, Moncrief, Cummings, Redd
Minnesota - Garnett, Jefferson
New Orleans - Mourning, LJ, Paul, West
New York - Ewing, Houston, Starks
New Jersey - Carter, Kidd, Petrovic
Oklahoma City - Ellis, Kemp, Payton, Chambers
Orlando - Shaq, Penny, Howard, D3
Philadelphia - Dr. J, Moses, Barkley, Iverson, Iguodala
Phoenix - KJ, Barkley, Nash, Amare, Marion
Portland - Drexler, Porter, Buck Williams, Roy, Aldridge
Sacramento - Bibby, Divac, Webber
San Antonio - Robinson, Duncan, Gervin, Elliott, Manu, Parker
Toronto - Carter, McGrady, Bosh
Utah - Stockton, Malone, Dantley, Hornacek, Williams
Washington - Bernard King, Arenas, Unseld, Jamison

[IronMexican]

kobe and shaq needs to be swapped

No way. Shaq>>>Kobe, Duncan

[layupdrill]

Atlanta - Wilkins, Josh Smith, Rivers
Boston - Bird, McHale, Lewis, Pierce
Charlotte - Okafor
Chicago - Jordan, Pippen
Cleveland - Price, Dougherty, Lebron
Dallas - Blackman, Harper, Dirk
Denver - English, Lever, Kiki, Melo
Detroit - Isiah, Dumars, Rodman, Billups, Rip, Wallace
Golden St. - Richmond, Hardaway, Mullin, SJax
Houston - Olajuwon, Yao
Indiana - Miller
Los Angeles C - Brand, Nixon
Los Angeles L - Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Shaq, Kobe
Memphis - Gay, Miller, Mayo
Miami - Seikaly, Wade
Milwaukee - Sikma, Pressey, Moncrief, Cummings, Redd
Minnesota - Garnett, Jefferson
New Orleans - Mourning, LJ, Paul, West
New York - Ewing, Houston, Starks
New Jersey - Carter, Kidd, Petrovic
Oklahoma City - Ellis, Kemp, Payton, Chambers
Orlando - Shaq, Penny, Howard, D3
Philadelphia - Dr. J, Moses, Barkley, Iverson, Iguodala
Phoenix - KJ, Barkley, Nash, Amare, Marion
Portland - Drexler, Porter, Buck Williams, Roy, Aldridge
Sacramento - Bibby, Divac, Webber
San Antonio - Robinson, Duncan, Gervin, Elliott, Manu, Parker
Toronto - Carter, McGrady, Bosh
Utah - Stockton, Malone, Dantley, Hornacek, Williams
Washington - Bernard King, Arenas, Unseld, Jamison
Thats a thorough breakdown.
Edit for Barkley

[Lakers999]

No way. Shaq>>>Kobe, Duncan



YOU SERIOUS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? KOBE is not on the outside begging to be let back in

[IronMexican]

Huh? Take you're hater glasses off. Shaq was the most dominant player I've ever seen. Now a serious question to you. Are you a Laker fan first, or Kobe fan?

[layupdrill]

Huh? Take you're hater glasses off. Shaq was the most dominant player I've ever seen. Now a serious question to you. Are you a Laker fan first, or Kobe fan?
Many people forget how dominant Shaq was in the mid 90s to his move to Miami.

[ImmortalD24]

Huh? Take you're hater glasses off. Shaq was the most dominant player I've ever seen. Now a serious question to you. Are you a Laker fan first, or Kobe fan?Shaq> Kobe(for now)

And you're a self-admitted Shaq fan... quit questioning other Laker fans fan-hood just because they don't agree with you.

[Lakers999]

Huh? Take you're hater glasses off. Shaq was the most dominant player I've ever seen. Now a serious question to you. Are you a Laker fan first, or Kobe fan?

is it wrong to be a fan of both last time i checked kobe is both a great player and a laker

true on the most dominanat player but shaq lackadasical effort on staying in shape in the offseason and pushing the blame onto others when his team loses does not really qualify as top 3 players. kobe is a workhorse playing through injuries and constantly working out on his body and game that something shaq does not do unless hes motivated by a new team

[Lakers999]

Many people forget how dominant Shaq was in the mid 90s to his move to Miami.


i also think player work ethic should be put into consideration when putting players into GOAT lists.....

[IronMexican]

I am a Laker fan first, Shaq fan second. I get pissed going to CL, LG, TLN, and reading what Kobe fans have to say. I actually saw a thread that said "Would you rather Kobe score 101 points or Lakers win a title" Like seriously, c'mon brah.

[Lakers999]

I am a Laker fan first, Shaq fan second. I get pissed going to CL, LG, TLN, and reading what Kobe fans have to say. I actually saw a thread that said "Would you rather Kobe score 101 points or Lakers win a title" Like seriously, c'mon brah.


you read the title but did you read the thread.... clearly the majority of laker fans want a title just like any other fan

[IronMexican]

is it wrong to be a fan of both last time i checked kobe is both a great player and a laker

true on the most dominanat player but shaq lackadasical effort on staying in shape in the offseason and pushing the blame onto others when his team loses does not really qualify as top 3 players. kobe is a workhorse playing through injuries and constantly working out on his body and game that something shaq does not do unless hes motivated by a new team

If Shaq was that lazy, he wouldn't have the post game he has and would just be limited to dunks. I know it's going to suck when Kobe retires, but we will be able to tell who the true Laker fans were.

[IronMexican]

you read the title but did you read the thread.... clearly the majority of laker fans want a title just like any other fan

I read the thread and mostly everyone bashed him(Which I like), but it pisses me off.

[Lakers999]

If Shaq was that lazy, he wouldn't have the post game he has and would just be limited to dunks. I know it's going to suck when Kobe retires, but we will be able to tell who the true Laker fans were.

look... the lakers have won titles before kobe and they will win titles after kobe.... dont worry about the die hards dying off when kobe retires if anything the laker fan base is growing we are the most loved and most hated team in the world


behind the yankees of course :king

[scanry]

If Shaq was that lazy, he wouldn't have the post game he has and would just be limited to dunks. I know it's going to suck when Kobe retires, but we will be able to tell who the true Laker fans were.

Not many Lakers fans appreciate Shaq. I know he & Kobe had their issues, but do you guys seriously believe that Kobe would've been the player he is today? Kobe benefited a lot playing alongside Shaq and viceversa.

BTW without Shaq and the 3 titles, the Lakers would be a mess right about now.

And the last time i checked Shaq has 3 Finals MVP's and imo Finals MVP is what defines greatness, and there is reason why people laugh at Kobe-MJ comparisions.

[sook]

holy crap pierce is way too high and olajuwon wayyy too low, he is top 10 all time easily, yes better than shaq

[samikeyp]

Bogus. No Iceman? In your lifetime(1980-2008), he made 6 all-star teams, won an all-star MVP and led the league in scoring twice.

Now if you only limited to players you saw play, I get that but I read this as players who have played from 80 to 08.

[mogrovejo]

Terrible list.

[scanry]

look... the lakers have won titles before kobe and they will win titles after kobe.... dont worry about the die hards dying off when kobe retires if anything the laker fan base is growing we are the most loved and most hated team in the world


behind the yankees of course :king

Not even close and i'll list the teams.

The most loved & hated teams in the world are

1. Ferrari Formula 1 team. (They probably have more than 200 million fans all around the world, or maybe more). :wow
2. Manchester United Soccer Club
3. New England Patriots (C'mon you know every one hates them, and for some reason i'm a big fan of their's).:toast
4. Mclaren Mercedes Formula 1 Team
5. New York Yankees
6. Real Madrid Soccer Club

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08TiauV7gY5DR/610x.jpg

Now that is fanaticism :wow:wow

[scanry]

holy crap pierce is way too high and olajuwon wayyy too low, he is top 10 all time easily, yes better than shaq

I don't think so. :lol

As a Duncan fan, i'll be the first to admit that Shaq should be ahead of Duncan (right now).

Do you realize that the NBA changed the rules of the game to slow down Shaq. :wow:wow:wow

BTW The Top 10 should look like this

Top 10:


10. Jerry West
9. Kobe Bryant
8. Larry Bird
7. Tim Duncan
6. Shaq
5. Kareem
4. Wilt Chamberlin
3. Magic Johnson
2. Bill Russell
1. Michael Jordan

[The Third Man]

Moses Malone is another oversight. He has to be in the top 15 and certainly better than Karl Malone.

Hakeem should be in the top 5.

[samikeyp]

I don't think so. :lol

As a Duncan fan, i'll be the first to admit that Shaq should be ahead of Duncan (right now).

Do you realize that the NBA changed the rules of the game to slow down Shaq. :wow:wow:wow

BTW The Top 10 should look like this

Top 10:


10. Jerry West
9. Kobe Bryant
8. Larry Bird
7. Tim Duncan
6. Shaq
5. Kareem
4. Wilt Chamberlin
3. Magic Johnson
2. Bill Russell
1. Michael Jordan

I like your list but the OP stated that it was players who played in his lifetime (from 1980 til now) so West, Wilt and Russell would not qualify.

All time though? I like it. I would switch Duncan and Shaq but that is just me and I wouldn't yet put Kobe there.

[Hemotivo]

Terrible list.

:toast:whine

[scanry]

Moses Malone is another oversight. He has to be in the top 15 and certainly better than Karl Malone.

Hakeem should be in the top 5.

I can name about 7 better players right off my head (Post 1980).

Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Shaq
Duncan
Bird
Kobe

[cobbler]

Huh? Take you're hater glasses off. Shaq was the most dominant player I've ever seen. Now a serious question to you. Are you a Laker fan first, or Kobe fan?

I'm a Laker fan first and have been so long before Kobe or Shaq. Shaq isn't even in the top 3 of Laker centers... must less best ever.

[samikeyp]

I'm a Laker fan first and have been so long before Kore or Shaq. Shaq isn't even in the top 3 of Laker centers... must less best ever.

:tu

[scanry]

I'm a Laker fan first and have been so long before Kore or Shaq. Shaq isn't even in the top 3 of Laker centers... must less best ever.

Did anyone even bring that up.

BTW he was the most dominant Laker of all time.

[samikeyp]

Did anyone even bring that up.

BTW he was the most dominant Laker of all time.

Not named Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar or Mikan.

[IronMexican]

I am sure Mikan could stop Shaq with no problem.

[cobbler]

Not named Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar or Mikan.

Touchee!

[samikeyp]

I am sure Mikan could stop Shaq with no problem.

Wilt would have fucked him up.

[cobbler]

If you go by eras... Mikan dominated his more than Shaq did his.

To the tune of 5 titles. Changing the dimensions of the key... #1 player in first half century.... NBA's 50th best... etc etc

[IronMexican]

I could debate he is #2 or #3. give or take with him and Wilt. But, seriously, putting Mikan above him is a joke.

[cobbler]

I could debate he is #2 or #3. give or take with him and Wilt. But, you are seriously putting Mikan above him is a joke.

1.Wilt
2.Kareem
3.Mikan
4.Shaq

[IronMexican]

By that stupid logic, they are all better than Wilt by winning more titles.

[samikeyp]

If you go by eras... Mikan dominated his more than Shaq did his.

To the tune of 5 titles. Changing the dimensions of the key... #1 player in first half century.... NBA's 50th best... etc etc

I would agree with that.

If you are talking about a one-on-one matchup between Shaq and Mikan, that is different than what we are talking about here. Although Mikan could win that if he stayed outside and knocked down shots, if he tried to body up Shaq...it would be over quick in favor of O'Neal.

[cobbler]

I would agree with that.

If you are talking about a one-on-one matchup between Shaq and Mikan, that is different than what we are talking about here. Although Mikan could win that if he stayed outside and knocked down shots, if he tried to body up Shaq...it would be over quick in favor of O'Neal.

Of course... that's why comparing eras never really works. Players get bigger, more athletic etc... 50 years from now there will be players that make Shaq look tiny and unatheletic.

I think Shaq could have gone down in history as the all time best center ever if he had a work ethic. It's my huge issue with him. But again, that's just my humble opinion.

[samikeyp]

Of course... that's why comparing eras never really works.

+1

[Ockham]

I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but I'd put the following 9 in a tier all by themselves (in no particular order):

Olajuwan
M. Malone
Duncan
Shaq
Dr. J
Bird
Kareem
Jordan
Magic

The reason is that all these players, in addition to having other accomplishments, won at least one title as the undisputed best player on their team (most won more than one with this distinction) and at least one league MVP (likewise, most won more than one of these, too). I think these features ought to weigh heavily in rankings. But if so, then Pippen, Kobe, and Karl Malone don't belong in this tier.

(And please note: this isn't just Lakers antipathy rearing its head to exclude Kobe. After all, I think Magic, Shaq, and Kareem belong in the top tier.)

[cobbler]

I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but I'd put the following 9 in a tier all by themselves (in no particular order):

Olajuwan
M. Malone
Duncan
Shaq
Dr. J
Bird
Kareem
Jordan
Magic

The reason is that all these players, in addition to having other accomplishments, won at least one title as the undisputed best player on their team (most won more than one with this distinction) and at least one league MVP (likewise, most won more than one of these, too). I think these features ought to weigh heavily in rankings. But if so, then Pippen, Kobe, and Karl Malone don't belong in this tier.

(And please note: this isn't just Lakers antipathy rearing its head to exclude Kobe. After all, I think Magic, Shaq, and Kareem belong in the top tier.)


Hmmmmm.... according to your criteria.... where is Russell? Best on his team, 11 titles, 5 mvps etc etc...

[Ockham]

Hmmmmm.... according to your criteria.... where is Russell? Best on his team, 11 titles, 5 mvps etc etc...

In the spirit of the thread-starter, I limited my thoughts to players who played at least some time during the 1980-2009 period.

But if we drop this qualification, then you're exactly right: Russell gets in, for sure. Chamberlain makes the cut as well. Comparing players from different eras can get a bit tricky, though, and the farther apart the eras, the trickier things get.

[JamStone]

I wouldn't have a problem with your list if it was clearly a subjective list of who you felt were the greatest players you've seen, almost like a a combination of greatest and favorites. But you specifically stated: "which ranks the players by what they have accomplished in their career, whether still playing or retired, and not on potential." That leaves your list more open to criticism because it's more of an objective rankings using those parameters.

You don't even have Charles Barkley or Chris Mullin on your list at all. And, you have fools towards the end of your list like Gilbert Arenas and Carmelo Anthony and Derrick Coleman on there but players like James Worthy, Tony Parker, and Chauncey Billups (Finals MVPs) and Manu Ginobili are left off the list. Heck, even guys like Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Stephon Marbury "accomplished" more than guys like Gilbert Arenas, Derrick Coleman, and Drazen Petrovic.

edit: and seriously, Reggie Miller at #16? Fareal?

[barbacoataco]

Karl Malone way too high. I saw him play a lot of games and there's no way he should be that high. DRobinson and Hakeem should be higher. I guess you just forgot about Barkley. Not a bad list for the most part.

[DAF86]

The Big 44
The 44 Greatest NBA Players I Ever Saw.
(1980 - 2008)
A LayupDrill.com Exclusive


In honor of the inauguration of the 44th President of the United States, President Barrack Obama, I have assembled a comprehensive list of the 44 Greatest NBA Players of my lifetime. Over my lifetime, some of the greatest players the NBA (http://layupdrill.com/2009/01/the-44-greatest-nba-players-i-ever-saw/#) has ever seen have graced the court. You will see some names missing from this list that played before my time, such as Oscar Robertson, Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West, Rick Barry or Bill Russell.
With that being said, check out the list, which ranks the players by what they have accomplished in their career, whether still playing or retired, and not on potential.
44. Gilbert Arenas
43. Derrick Coleman
42. Carmelo Anthony
41. Chris Paul
40. Drazen Petrovic
39. Dirk Nowitzki
38. Alonzo Mourning
37. Ray Allen
36. Larry Johnson
35. Tracy McGrady
34. Chris Webber
33. Mitch Richmond
32. Vince Carter
31. Dwayne Wade
30. Bernard King
29. Steve Nash
28. Paul Pierce
27. Dennis Rodman
26. Kevin McHale
25. David Robinson
24. Kevin Garnett
23. Lebron James
22. Allen Iverson
21. Kevin Johnson
20. Jason Kidd
19. Clyde Drexler
18. John Stockton
17. Dominique Wilkins
16. Reggie Miller
15. Isiah Thomas
14. Gary Payton
13. Patrick Ewing
12. Moses Malone
11. Hakeem Olajuwon

Top 10:
10. Kobe Bryant
9. Karl Malone
8. Tim Duncan
7. Kareem
6. Scottie Pippen
5. Julius Erving
4. Larry Bird
3. Shaq
2. Magic Johnson
1. Michael Jordan

Are you a real Spurs fan? You can't leave Manu or Parker out (Manu for sure) if you put those names that I marked there.

[Lakers999]

Not even close and i'll list the teams.

The most loved & hated teams in the world are

1. Ferrari Formula 1 team. (They probably have more than 200 million fans all around the world, or maybe more). :wow
2. Manchester United Soccer Club
3. New England Patriots (C'mon you know every one hates them, and for some reason i'm a big fan of their's).:toast
4. Mclaren Mercedes Formula 1 Team
5. New York Yankees
6. Real Madrid Soccer Club

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08TiauV7gY5DR/610x.jpg

Now that is fanaticism :wow:wow



i guess its safe to say that we are the most loved and hated NBA team

[phyzik]

didnt read the whole thread but to completely dismiss Gervin is an outrage. At the very least he is in the top 30.

Besides that, timmy is definately better than Pippen. Pippen was good.... A good role player that played on the team with the greatest player of all-time. Switch them and you have a good list.

Also, Paul Pierce is still too young in his career to put him on that list. Lets see if he can keep it up for a while, its only been 1 1/2 seasons since he broke out in my estimation of his talent. As DAF86 said, you cant put CP3 ahead of Parker and Manu at this point, at least not yet....

[Brazil]

Are you a real Spurs fan? You can't leave Manu or Parker out (Manu for sure) if you put those names that I marked there.

+1

[lefty]

DrJ and Shaq in front of Duncan?

That list is retarded

[Rummpd]

Idiot list. Kareem is a top 3 player hands down. His impact on winning is second only to Russell's

[JamStone]

Here's my list in my lifetime of watching the NBA (started really following in the mid 1980s). This is my subjective opinion, not necessarily based on individual statistics or championship rings. These players are ranked in accordance to how great I think they were, regardless of statistics or rings and regardless of longevity, so Reggie Miller isn't going to be high on the list just because he played until he was 60 years old and Grant Hill won't be excluded just because his injury cost him a good 5+ years of his prime and LeBron James won't be downgraded because he's so young. This is greatness I've watched and seen and observed and witnessed. And, it's more about me being amazed by these players and what they were able to do on the court rather than their statistical output or number of awards.

Dr. J was right at the tail end of his career in the mid 80s. Although I know how good he was and have seen highlights and even games on ESPN classic, I didn't really watch much of him. He's not on my list because I didn't watch him enough in his prime. And, Kareem was at his tail end as well when I started really following the NBA. I left him off as well. Obviously, those two would likely be pretty high had I seen them both a lot in their primes.

1. Magic Johnson (I know many disagree, but I was more amazed by Magic as a player)
2. Michael Jordan (yes I hated him)
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. LeBron James (slots 5-7 could really go in any order, imo)
6. Kobe Bryant
7. Tim Duncan (in part because he is so methodically effective, it's sometimes not so "amazing" to me)
8. Allen Iverson
9. Larry Bird
10. Charles Barkley

11. Isiah Thomas
12. Kevin Garnett
13. Dwyane Wade
14. Manu Ginobili (because of how he plays when it really matters in the playoffs)
15. Dirk Nowitzki
16. Vince Carter (his greatness didn't last, but when he was great, wow)
17. Chris Paul
18. David Robinson
19. Karl Malone
20. Grant Hill (looks like Piston bias, but I don't even like him as a player, but before the injury, he was that good)

21. Chris Webber (this is personal bias)
22. Dominique Wilkins
23. Penny Hardaway (what if?)
24. Patrick Ewing
25. Dennis Rodman (still amazes me what he was able to do with limited skill)
26. Jason Kidd
27. Tracy McGrady (I'm largely ignoring the injuries and him being a bitch and going mostly on talent)
28. Tony Parker
29. Steve Nash
30. Dwight Howard

31. Clyde Drexler
32. Larry Johnson (another what if?)
33. Kevin Johnson
34. Stephon Marbury
35. Amare Stoudemire (dumb meets stupid, but still has crazy talent)
36. Tim Hardaway
37. Scottie Pippen
38. James Worthy
39. Reggie Miller
40. Ray Allen

41. John Stockton (I hesitated to put him on the list at all)
42. Chris Mullin
43. Chauncey Billups (never phased by the pressure of the moment, even when he failed)
44. Glen Rice

edit: I realized I left out Paul Pierce and he should probably be in there somewhere, but I don't feel like changing and rearranging it.

Some of my personal favorites who I thought were great in their day or had great talent but were not consistently great enough or didn't meet their potential and talent: Nick Van Exel, Walt Williams, Shawn Kemp (in his prime, insane)

[Galileo]

The real top 10 since 1980, based on what they accomplished:

Honorable Mention - Moses Malone

10. Pippen

9. Kobe

8. Olajuwon

7. Karl Malone

6. Shaq

5. Bird

4. Duncan

3. Magic

2. Jabber

1. Jordan

[Girasuck]

Here's my list in my lifetime of watching the NBA (started really following in the mid 1980s). This is my subjective opinion, not necessarily based on individual statistics or championship rings. These players are ranked in accordance to how great I think they were, regardless of statistics or rings and regardless of longevity, so Reggie Miller isn't going to be high on the list just because he played until he was 60 years old and Grant Hill won't be excluded just because his injury cost him a good 5+ years of his prime and LeBron James won't be downgraded because he's so young. This is greatness I've watched and seen and observed and witnessed. And, it's more about me being amazed by these players and what they were able to do on the court rather than their statistical output or number of awards.

Dr. J was right at the tail end of his career in the mid 80s. Although I know how good he was and have seen highlights and even games on ESPN classic, I didn't really watch much of him. He's not on my list because I didn't watch him enough in his prime. And, Kareem was at his tail end as well when I started really following the NBA. I left him off as well. Obviously, those two would likely be pretty high had I seen them both a lot in their primes.

1. Magic Johnson (I know many disagree, but I was more amazed by Magic as a player)
2. Michael Jordan (yes I hated him)
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. LeBron James (slots 5-7 could really go in any order, imo)
6. Kobe Bryant
7. Tim Duncan (in part because he is so methodically effective, it's sometimes not so "amazing" to me)
8. Allen Iverson
9. Larry Bird
10. Charles Barkley

11. Isiah Thomas
12. Kevin Garnett
13. Dwyane Wade
14. Manu Ginobili (because of how he plays when it really matters in the playoffs)
15. Dirk Nowitzki
16. Vince Carter (his greatness didn't last, but when he was great, wow)
17. Chris Paul
18. David Robinson
19. Karl Malone
20. Grant Hill (looks like Piston bias, but I don't even like him as a player, but before the injury, he was that good)

21. Chris Webber (this is personal bias)
22. Dominique Wilkins
23. Penny Hardaway (what if?)
24. Patrick Ewing
25. Dennis Rodman (still amazes me what he was able to do with limited skill)
26. Jason Kidd
27. Tracy McGrady (I'm largely ignoring the injuries and him being a bitch and going mostly on talent)
28. Tony Parker
29. Steve Nash
30. Dwight Howard

31. Clyde Drexler
32. Larry Johnson (another what if?)
33. Kevin Johnson
34. Stephon Marbury
35. Amare Stoudemire (dumb meets stupid, but still has crazy talent)
36. Tim Hardaway
37. Scottie Pippen
38. James Worthy
39. Reggie Miller
40. Ray Allen

41. John Stockton (I hesitated to put him on the list at all)
42. Chris Mullin
43. Chauncey Billups (never phased by the pressure of the moment, even when he failed)
44. Glen Rice

edit: I realized I left out Paul Pierce and he should probably be in there somewhere, but I don't feel like changing and rearranging it.

Some of my personal favorites who I thought were great in their day or had great talent but were not consistently great enough or didn't meet their potential and talent: Nick Van Exel, Walt Williams, Shawn Kemp (in his prime, insane)

John Stockton at #41? You're a fucking idiot if you think there were 40 players better than Stockton within the past 15 years.

[Girasuck]

To the OP...

Any list that has Reggie Miller and Gary Payton ahead of Stockton is a complete joke.

[layupdrill]

alot of great feedback on this topic...much appreciated guys!

[dirk4mvp]

Not named Chamberlain

Shaq didn't have the luxury of going up against unathletic 6'8" white guys. Shaq would fuck up all of those guys.

[JamStone]

John Stockton at #41? You're a fucking idiot if you think there were 40 players better than Stockton within the past 15 years.


If you read my opening paragraphs, I stated it was my personal, subjective opinion, and it wasn't based on statistics or accomplishments or longevity, but based on me watching these players and how amazed I was at their basketball play.

John Stockton is a hall of fame player, no doubt. His numbers and accomplishments are great. As a player, he didn't amaze me that much. He was a hard worker, smart player, in a great system with another great player under a great coach. And he never got hurt and played for 50 years.

I appreciate and respect what he did as a player, but his game didn't impress me the way others who didn't accomplish as much impressed me. Again, it's my subjective opinion.

[Killakobe81]

I also started in the 80's so Kareem & Dr.J don't get as much love a sthey should but ...
1.MJ
2.Magic (a CLOSE 2nd)
3.Bird
4.Hakeem
5.Duncan
(that is my all-time top 5 with LBJ probaly taking Bird's in a few more years)
6.Kobe
7.Isiah
8.Shaq
9.Malone
10.Barkley

[scanry]

1. Magic Johnson (I know many disagree, but I was more amazed by Magic as a player)
2. Michael Jordan (yes I hated him)
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. LeBron James (slots 5-7 could really go in any order, imo)
6. Kobe Bryant
7. Tim Duncan (in part because he is so methodically effective, it's sometimes not so "amazing" to me)
8. Allen Iverson
9. Larry Bird
10. Charles Barkley

11. Isiah Thomas
12. Kevin Garnett
13. Dwyane Wade
14. Manu Ginobili (because of how he plays when it really matters in the playoffs)
15. Dirk Nowitzki
16. Vince Carter (his greatness didn't last, but when he was great, wow)
17. Chris Paul
18. David Robinson
19. Karl Malone
20. Grant Hill (looks like Piston bias, but I don't even like him as a player, but before the injury, he was that good)



I guess not many Piston fans liked Jordan after he swept your assess from contention for 10 odd years. :lol

AI in the top ten just messed up your list. He shouldn't be anywhere near the top 20. Kobe & Lebron especially are too high on that list. :wow

Isiah doesn't deserve to be at 11. I'd rather have Joe Dumars instead of that loser Isiah. Dumars was and is still one of my favorite Pistons.
BTW without Dumars, MJ would've swept the Pistons in all those years that the Bulls lost. Thank god Isiah dosn't have anything to do with the Pistons basketball operations otherwise we'd be seeing another version of 2007 Knicks.

Larry Bird is a little over rated. They treated him as the second coming of Russell and in a way neglected Magic in the 80's.

[IronMexican]

Kobe's 81 on NBA TV, if anyone cares. NBA TV is free right now

[JamStone]

I guess not many Piston fans liked Jordan after he swept your assess from contention for 10 odd years. :lol

AI in the top ten just messed up your list. He shouldn't be anywhere near the top 20. Kobe & Lebron especially are too high on that list. :wow

Isiah doesn't deserve to be at 11. I'd rather have Joe Dumars instead of that loser Isiah. Dumars was and is still one of my favorite Pistons.
BTW without Dumars, MJ would've swept the Pistons in all those years that the Bulls lost. Thank god Isiah dosn't have anything to do with the Pistons basketball operations otherwise we'd be seeing another version of 2007 Knicks.

Obviously disagree on all accounts.

I do freely and openly admit I hate Michael Jordan. Don't hate him enough to drop him down to something ridiculous like out of the top 10. I placed him #2 after a guy that amazed me more. A 6-9 point guard that could play any position on the court including center. A guy that came into the league and won Finals MVP as a rookie. A five time champion in his own right. A three time league MVP himself. I didn't rank Jordan after Tom Chambers. I ranked him #2 after probably my favorite player of all time and a guy that is widely recognized as one of the greatest players in the game as well. It's not that bad.

I guess I have to reiterate what I wrote once again. I ranked these players subjectively, meaning it's my own personal opinion. And, with that, it has very little to do with statistics or awards or team success or championships, but more to do with me watching these players and being amazed by how great they were as players. With that in mind, it's hardly a stretch to say someone would be that amazed with how great Allen Iverson as an individual player is/was.

I love Joe Dumars, and I think Isiah Thomas as a coach and general manager and overall as a person is an incompetent nutcase. If we rank these players based on things that happened after their playing days were over, I should have dropped Michael Jordan even lower. Isiah Thomas' failures as a coach and general manager does not rewrite his history as a basketball player. He's a top 25 player in the entire history of the game. And, since the mid 1980s, he's easily a top 10-15 player. You can argue a few spaces either way from #11, but it's not even remotely ridiculous to place him there as a player.

[diego]

jamstone's list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OP list

and while i agree with jamstone's premise that how you feel from watching a player is more important than their numbers, you cant discount consistency and longevity. i would never rank marbury above stockton, and i think reggie miller should be closer to tmac / VC. but then again, i enjoy watching players with less athletic ability outsmarting their more gifted counterparts and thats part of the reason i love miller/stockton types and hate amare/marbury types.

[sook]

John Stockton at #41? You're a fucking idiot if you think there were 40 players better than Stockton within the past 15 years.

don't call jamstone a fucking idiot

[Cry Havoc]

Iverson is so high it made me sick.

[mardigan]

I'll take Glen Rice over McGrady or Arenas anyday.

[JamStone]

jamstone's list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OP list

and while i agree with jamstone's premise that how you feel from watching a player is more important than their numbers, you cant discount consistency and longevity. i would never rank marbury above stockton, and i think reggie miller should be closer to tmac / VC. but then again, i enjoy watching players with less athletic ability outsmarting their more gifted counterparts and thats part of the reason i love miller/stockton types and hate amare/marbury types.

Fair and objective post.

All fair points that I can't really argue against, which is why I tried to emphasize the fact that it was my "personal and subjective opinion."

In the same vein, if someone was arguing that it was their opinion that John Stockton was a top 20 player in the NBA since the mid 1980s, I wouldn't blast them for it. Disagree, sure. But, I wouldn't be worked up over it.

[senorglory]

I'm also unclear why Ewing would be ranked higher than Robinson.
REB......AST...STL....BLK...TO.....PF......PTS
10,497 2,441 1,388 2,954 2,417 2,835 20,790 Robinson (14 seasons)**
11,607 2,215 1,136 2,894 3,537 4,034 24,815 Ewing (17 season)

[senorglory]

Can a Jazz fan/ Rockets hater explain to me why Malone would be ranked higher than Olajuwon? I'm a little dense, and it's not immediately obvious.

REB........AST...STL....BLK....TO......PF......PTS
13,748 3,058 2,162 3,830 3,667 4,383 26,946 Olajuwon (18)**
14,968 5,248 2,085 1,145 4,524 4,578 36,928 Malone (19)

[sook]

Can a Jazz fan/ Rockets hater explain to me why Malone would be ranked higher than Olajuwon? I'm a little dense, and it's not immediately obvious.

REB........AST...STL....BLK....TO......PF......PTS
13,748 3,058 2,162 3,830 3,667 4,383 26,946 Olajuwon (18)**
14,968 5,248 2,085 1,145 4,524 4,578 36,928 Malone (19)

so true, and to your other comment i always thought ewing was fucking overrated as hell

[senorglory]

Shawn Kemp (in his prime, insane)

Oh man, that guy could finish a fast break. Scary strong at the rim. His one-handed tomahawk... ouch!

Top 10 Kemp Dunks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKz8ACUAApQ&feature=PlayList&p=4A899BB5CCB46D8A&playnext=1&index=62

[Thomas82]

Shaq is too high on the top 10, and Kareem is too low.

[j-money24]

kobe is a top 4 forsure

[angelbelow]

its not that terrible of a list, it takes a lot of time and effort to make a list like this so i would like commend the op on a job well done. im not saying that i fully agree with your list but i think its pretty good.

[hitmanyr2k]

Thanks. In regards to Scottie, I remember watching Pip be at times the second best player in the league, and he was the second best player on his own team. All NBA First team defender, and did all the little things that didn't always show up in the stat box for Chicago during the 3 peat years.

Damn right...his place on the list is perfect :tu

[ElNono]

Jason Kidd top 20 and we're supposed to take that list seriously? Wow.

[urunobili]

Manu not making it?....