Obama's First Idiot Order

[Crookshanks]

Today Obama signed an executive order to close Gitmo within a year. He doesn't have a clue what to do with the terrorists detained there - but, by golly, in the interest of national security we're closing it anyway! :bang

Maybe Pelosi and Reed can sponsor a terrorist or two and let them come live with them... :lmao

[ratm1221]

So you support concentration camps? Nazi.

[clambake]

crookskanks!!!!

[Darrin]

Today Obama signed an executive order to close Gitmo within a year. He doesn't have a clue what to do with the terrorists detained there - but, by golly, in the interest of national security we're closing it anyway! :bang

Maybe Pelosi and Reed can sponsor a terrorist or two and let them come live with them... :lmao

YES! THEY ARE CLOSING GITMO!!!

My dad's doing a dance in heaven right now!

[Blake]

Maybe Pelosi and Reed can sponsor a terrorist or two and let them come live with them... :lmao

I think I've seen that ad on TV.

"For the price of a cup of coffee a day, you can feed your own terrorist for a month........get a picture of your terrorist and how he's doing in school.....yada yada ....."

usually comes on right after the snuggie ad.

[DarkReign]

Good. Gives them a year to figure out where to put them.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Today Obama signed an executive order to close Gitmo within a year. He doesn't have a clue what to do with the terrorists detained there - but, by golly, in the interest of national security we're closing it anyway! :bang

Maybe Pelosi and Reed can sponsor a terrorist or two and let them come live with them... :lmao

Didn't we just release some people from Gitmo that were found to completely innocent? They were there 3 or 4yrs so I guess they are just unlucky that they lost 4 yrs of their lives. Our bad..

[Crookshanks]

Didn't we just release some people from Gitmo that were found to completely innocent? They were there 3 or 4yrs so I guess they are just unlucky that they lost 4 yrs of their lives. Our bad..
So what? 61 detainees who were released went right back to the terrorist camps and continued right where they left off! Those who were "innocent" probably weren't - they just didn't have enough evidence against them.

So human rights take precedence over national security - makes me feel all warm and fuzzy!

[clambake]

if you were not a terrorist when you went in.......you damn sure are by the time you get out.

[SAtoDallas]

A naive move. I'd rather them be at Gitmo than here on the mainland.

[Crookshanks]

Have you heard the press conference? Obama sounds like a puppet - his mouth is moving, but someone else is providing the words.

BTW - Rush Limbaugh has made his own executive order. He's changing his Club Gitmo merchandise to say CLUB GITMO - WHEN AMERICA WAS SAFE

I think I'll get a t-shirt as soon as they go on sale.


So you support concentration camps? Nazi.
That's funny - those detainees are living better than they ever did in their home country!

[clambake]

That's funny - those detainees are living better than they ever did in their home country!

:lmao

[Winehole23]

Prosecute em all. Let's see how good the evidence is.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol didnt the bush admin wanted to properly divide up the reallocation of inmates at gitmo to usa/britain/australia.....

australia's citizens reject the idea and so does it govt.....

[jack sommerset]

if you were not a terrorist when you went in.......you damn sure are by the time you get out.

:lol

[balli]

So human rights take precedence over national security - makes me feel all warm and fuzzy!
You. Are. A. Moron. Of the lowliest quality.

[Winehole23]

Maybe Obama determined the streak of losses in court had grown too embarrassing for the country. Better just to put an arbitrary halt to the process and mothball Gitmo.

Where to now, St. Peter?


What comes next?

[MannyIsGod]

As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. Our founding fathers ... our found fathers, faced with perils we can scarcely imagine, drafted a charter to assure the rule of law and the rights of man, a charter expanded by the blood of generations. Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake

[clambake]

As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. Our founding fathers ... our found fathers, faced with perils we can scarcely imagine, drafted a charter to assure the rule of law and the rights of man, a charter expanded by the blood of generations. Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake

good luck explaining that to the dipshit known as crookshanks.

[ratm1221]

That's funny - those detainees are living better than they ever did in their home country!

A concentration camp is classified as a place where prisoners are held without trial.

That's the dilemma. As much as we would like to lock up anyone we think is a terrorist and throw away the key, we can't. It's un-American. German concentration camps started as a place to round up political enemies of the Nazi party and they convinced Germany that they were in the right out of playing on their fear. After the Reichstag fire, Hitler got the power he needed to suspend civil liberties and allowed him to imprison people that were seen as a thread to Germany without trial.

See the similarities? History has the tendency to repeat itself unless we are proactive. If this involves having to legally sentence terrorists and possibly have to let them go in order to preserve civil liberties, then that's just something we are going to have to deal with.

That's my opinion on it.

[balli]

Manny
http://www.sdenergysmart.com/IMAGES/img-cfl5.jpg
Clambake
http://www.smallfuel.com/images/uploads/trigger-bright-bulb.jpg
Winehole
http://www.shinyshiny.tv/bamboo-light.jpg
Dark Reign
http://gadgets.boingboing.net/gimages/hulgerCFL.jpg
Bartleby
http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/2254831/Crystal-Chandelier-main_Full.jpg

crookshanks.
http://www.crestock.com/images/870000-879999/871929-xs.jpg

[johnsmith]

Manny
http://www.sdenergysmart.com/IMAGES/img-cfl5.jpg
Clambake
http://www.smallfuel.com/images/uploads/trigger-bright-bulb.jpg
Winehole
http://www.shinyshiny.tv/bamboo-light.jpg
Dark Reign
http://gadgets.boingboing.net/gimages/hulgerCFL.jpg
Bartleby
http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/2254831/Crystal-Chandelier-main_Full.jpg

crookshanks.
http://www.crestock.com/images/870000-879999/871929-xs.jpg

:rolleyes

[SnakeBoy]

As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals.

FDR and Truman would disagree. At least in deeds if not words.

[johnsmith]

This order is part of the deal when America elected Obama. It was a fundamental difference between the philosophies of the President and McCain. Obama won, and therefore this shit is being closed.

Is anyone surprised?

[balli]

FDR and Truman would disagree. At least in deeds if not words.
And that was wrong. Or do you think the Japanese internment camps were a particular noble precedent in America's history? An example to be followed?

[lefty]

So what?

They'll close Guantanamo, only to secretly open a similar place :flipoff

[ratm1221]

FDR and Truman would disagree. At least in deeds if not words.

Are you an idiot on purpose? Read a history book.

[MannyIsGod]

good luck explaining that to the dipshit known as crookshanks.

I couldn't care less what the Whottts, Crookshanks, and WildCobras of the forum feel on the subject. They're all in meltdown mode because they don't like whats happening and thats fine. I have no intrest in trying to change that.

I - along with the vast majority of Americans who have seen where the policies of the previous 8 years have sown and reeped - agree this is the nessecary course of action and thats pretty much all that matters.

[DarkReign]

This order is part of the deal when America elected Obama. It was a fundamental difference between the philosophies of the President and McCain. Obama won, and therefore this shit is being closed.

Is anyone surprised?

Completely true and no...no one should be surprised. CS can cry wolf all she likes, it doesnt change the fact that a majority of electorate disagreed with her vehemently.

So, she can have her soapbox, as I'll have mine. I have always thought the War on Terror was comlpete and utter bullshit. Any action that undermines our involvement in the global theater of terrorism is fine with me.

They knocked two buildings down. Its a tragedy, it should be remembered and we should better prepare in the future. But gtfo over it. New York has, why havent you (none of this is directed at you, JS)?

But invading other countries and locking up people without trial in offshore prisons is a perversion of our principles. Having prisons is a-ok...not putting these people on trial and living with the results is deplorable.

Now instead of 9/11 being the galvenizing factor in our foreign wars, its the blood of our soldiers used to rally others to the cause and further entrench the believers. Its a sadistic twist on reality, IMO.

It isnt the first time, nor the last, that a government has used its own loss as a force of will upon its people. I am just glad to see a majority of the electorate isnt so easily swayed by the liberal-media that trumpeted the coming victory of the American War Machine.

If the electorate was ignorant and is still ignorant to the travesty of this escapade? That it took a cult of personality like Obama to sway the masses to the side of rationalism?

So fucking be it. I'll rob Peter to pay Paul and pay for a hamburger today on Tuesday.

[Shastafarian]

Completely true and no...no one should be surprised. CS can cry wolf all she likes, it doesnt change the fact that a majority of electorate disagreed with her vehemently.

CrookShanks is a woman?!?!? hahaha all this time I've been using the "sand in your vagina" joke on guys when she was the case study!

[clambake]

they can't see that they are becoming what they're fighting against.

[DarkReign]

CrookShanks is a woman?!?!? hahaha all this time I've been using the "sand in your vagina" joke on guys when she was the case study!

Yes, she is a woman. I am quite sure she is probably a pleasant person in real life with a nice hubby and wonderful family.

I just think her political views are so narrow-minded, you could change her avatar with any other board warhawk and I wouldnt be able to tell the context difference. And that is my only reason for writing this.


Yet these are the same people who claim individuality and unique thought. There is nothing unique about conformity, no matter how much it appeals to your peers to do so.

[doobs]

So what?

They'll close Guantanamo, only to secretly open a similar place :flipoff

Am I the only person who's thoroughly unimpressed by your picture of Obama getting a rebound? All those guys are just standing there.

[FreeMason]

You. Are. A. Moron. Of the lowliest quality.

Look in the mirror and recite that. It'll eventually turn on a light bulb.





And the obvious answer is to just ship them over to Canada.

[MannyIsGod]

Am I the only person who's thoroughly unimpressed by your picture of Obama getting a rebound? All those guys are just standing there.

Yeah,, but watch the Brian Gumble Real Sports piece - dude has game.

[Spurminator]

Those who were "innocent" probably weren't - they just didn't have enough evidence against them.

God Bless America

[Crookshanks]

We all know there's a HUGE difference between the philosophies and ideals of liberals and conservatives. You libs have been moaning, bitching and screaming for the past 8 years - now it's the conservatives' time.

You libs hail this as a wonderful change and see Obama as the answer to all the world's ills. We conservatives see this as probably the worst thing that could happen to our beloved country - so only time will tell who was right.

I think the libs suffer from a mental disorder - you think I'm narrow-minded and stupid. So I guess we're even. But I won't back down and I won't apologize for my beliefs. I just wish you guys wouldn't be so mean, hateful and profane in your responses to and about me. Can't we have civil discourse without the obscenities and profanities? I find it very offensive - and it lowers my opinion of you even further.

[FromWayDowntown]

What Obama should have done was issue an executive order to compel the immediate capture and internment of every Muslim in the United States and abroad. They aren't innocent in threatening terrorism; we just don't have enough evidence yet to prove that they're threatening domestic security.

Frankly, I'm glad to see that we have a President who doesn't see the Constitution as a meddling impediment. If winning the war on terror means that we stray from bedrock constitutional guarantees, I think we've basically capitulated to the enemy. Patrick Henry was a smart man, in my book and I'm glad that Barack Obama sees Patrick Henry's wisdom, too.

[Winehole23]

Well, instead of running everyone into the same ditch, you could pick out people to talk to individually. Have you considered that, CS?

[Shastafarian]

We all know there's a HUGE difference between the philosophies and ideals of liberals and conservatives. You libs have been moaning, bitching and screaming for the past 8 years - now it's the conservatives' time.I don't understand why you hate America.


You libs hail this as a wonderful change and see Obama as the answer to all the world's ills. We conservatives see this as probably the worst thing that could happen to our beloved country - so only time will tell who was right.I'm not sure it could get much worse than it is now. In case you didn't notice our economy is in the shitter, we're in two wars that might go on for years, and the rest of the world absolutely hates us.


I think the libs suffer from a mental disorder - you think I'm narrow-minded and stupid. Yeah

So I guess we're even.yeah but the difference is we're right about you

But I won't back down and I won't apologize for my beliefs.How about opening your mind enough to possibly question them?

I just wish you guys wouldn't be so mean, hateful and profane in your responses to and about me. My apologies. I'll save my profanity for guys like whottt and WC.

Can't we have civil discourse without the obscenities and profanities? http://www.screw-paypal.com/images/082505bush.jpg

Last time, I promise.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I - along with the vast majority of Americans who have seen where the policies of the previous 8 years have sown and reeped - agree this is the nessecary course of action and thats pretty much all that matters.

ummmmmmm. no

http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com/2009/01/21/no-mandate-on-gitmo/

[Bartleby]

You libs hail this as a wonderful change and see Obama as the answer to all the world's ills.

I suspect most of the people who post here and support Obama are not that naive.

Granted, Obama's political record is relatively thin compared to a lot of people on the Hill, but so far he appears to be an intelligent and highly competent president who wants to bring accountability and transparency to the WH. Can you blame people for being optimistic?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

so where exactly is Obama going to put these guys? isn't KSM in there? if their native country doesn't want them they're dumped here. i don't see this accomplishing anything except to pacify the obamaniacs.

[Banks91]

You libs hail this as a wonderful change and see Obama as the answer to all the world's ills. We conservatives see this as probably the worst thing that could happen to our beloved country - so only time will tell who was right.

Are you actually under the impression that without Gitmo, there won't be any such camps anymore? Let me guess, when you think about torture, you only think waterboarding?

Neither are even close to representing reality, but are merely the faces shown to public, have them associate it together so as not to really pay attention to the bigger picture.

There surely are waaaaaaaaay more places that do what Gitmo does and much worse i'm sure, same with waterboarding representing torture when much worse things must and do go on.

[Spurminator]

Granted, Obama's political record is relatively thin compared to a lot of people on the Hill, but so far he appears to be an intelligent and highly competent president who wants to bring accountability and transparency to the WH. Can you blame people for being optimistic?

This does not compute with people who view the world as a big stadium filled with people cheering for one team or the other. Conservatives good, Libs baad.

[MannyIsGod]

ummmmmmm. no

http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com/2009/01/21/no-mandate-on-gitmo/

Ummm Yes.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/behind-the-numbers/2009/01/wapo-abc_poll_on_gitmo.html?wprss=behind-the-numbers

More importantly, Obama campaigned oh this and won.

[FromWayDowntown]

so where exactly is Obama going to put these guys? isn't KSM in there? if their native country doesn't want them they're dumped here. i don't see this accomplishing anything except to pacify the obamaniacs.

I suspect that many of these guys are going to be prosecuted through already-existing channels and that the vast majority of them will rot away the rest of their lives in prisons.

[Winehole23]

so where exactly is Obama going to put these guys? isn't KSM in there? if their native country doesn't want them they're dumped here.Speculation is, here in the US. Whoever isn't repatriated or extradited first will get his day in court.

To conduce to more politically satisfying outcomes, the rules may need to be rejiggered to allow information from harsh interrogations to come in.

Glenn Greenwald is on top of this developing story like a dog on a bone.

[DarkReign]

I think the libs suffer from a mental disorder - you think I'm narrow-minded and stupid. So I guess we're even. But I won't back down and I won't apologize for my beliefs. I just wish you guys wouldn't be so mean, hateful and profane in your responses to and about me. Can't we have civil discourse without the obscenities and profanities? I find it very offensive - and it lowers my opinion of you even further.

I never called you stupid, but I would assume you werent speaking to me.

I said your views of the political world are narrow-minded. Its ok in some instances to be that way....politcal life = way of life, so being passionate and ingrained isnt always a bad thing.

But I find it odd that in this country that promises freedom and rights to any and all, that we should somehow ignore that promise in times of war? When that very issue has been expressly condemned by our forefathers, people smarter and more courageous than you or I or anyone you/I have ever met...in your/my life....period.

It doesnt make them right, but it certainly should at least get your attention long enough to consider the words long written down. When you ask for interpretation of our Consitution and where and when it should be applied, its intent and the sanctity, look no further than the people who wrote it.

Moreover, perpetual war is not an answer to terrorism. Terrorism is not a dog that can be beaten to submission. It is an idea. It isnt admirable or even worthy of conceptualizing...cmon, its deplorable thru and thru, we agree on that...but that doesnt make its existence as an idea any less of a threat.

Ghandi had an idea. MLK had an idea (and a dream!:lol). You could starve an entire nation, put people in the firing lines, abuse your own citizens, hose down entire families and drag everyone thru the streets on a leash and you wouldnt even have scratched or harmed the "idea" they had, much less damage it.

Obviously, their cause was admirable and do NOT misconstrew what I am saying. I do not sympathize with terrorism...I only acknowledge that blunt instruments are no answer to defeating radicalism. They may be tools you use when necessary, but not as often and as chaotically as they have been in the recent past.

Terrorism/radicalism doesnt have borders or a flag. It cant be sought out and destroyed like a standing army. Its far more subtle than that and its high time we as a nation recognized that fact.

[baseline bum]

Today Obama signed an executive order to close Gitmo within a year. He doesn't have a clue what to do with the terrorists detained there - but, by golly, in the interest of national security we're closing it anyway! :bang

Maybe Pelosi and Reed can sponsor a terrorist or two and let them come live with them... :lmao

As opposed to Bush, whose philosophy was out of sight, out of mind.


As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. Our founding fathers ... our found fathers, faced with perils we can scarcely imagine, drafted a charter to assure the rule of law and the rights of man, a charter expanded by the blood of generations. Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake

Easy for the Rush kool-aid drinkers to dismiss the philosophy of Obama, but what's their response when the greatest American to ever live, Ben Franklin, says it?


They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

[Winehole23]

Also, by declaring war on terrorism, we have raised it to a level of historical importance it does not deserve.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. Our founding fathers ... our found fathers, faced with perils we can scarcely imagine, drafted a charter to assure the rule of law and the rights of man, a charter expanded by the blood of generations. Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake

Didn't he vote for warrantless wiretapping and telecom immunity? During his campaign? :lol

annnnnnd here come Obamamites' justifications for choosing "safety" over "ideals"...............

[baseline bum]

We all know there's a HUGE difference between the philosophies and ideals of liberals and conservatives. You libs have been moaning, bitching and screaming for the past 8 years - now it's the conservatives' time.


So you've all given up draping yourselves in the flag? When you and your kind called us un-American for not supporting our president Bush, it was really just bullshit name-calling?

[Lebowski Brickowski]

Oh -- and if Gitmo is unconstitutional (I believe it so) , it seems like he's ordering it to remain open for another year. Another year of unjust imprisonment. Another year of denying human rights.

[SnakeBoy]

And that was wrong. Or do you think the Japanese internment camps were a particular noble precedent in America's history? An example to be followed?

I was thinking more along the lines of deliberately targeting the japanese and german civilian population but the internment of japanese americans is another good example.

It really doesn't matter if you or I think it was right or wrong. The point was, history shows Obama's statement to be false. When Americans truely believe their safety is at stake our ideals go right out the fucking window. Unless you've only read rats history books and think the US was nothing but noble during wwii.

I would argue that the only reason that gitmo became an issue is that Americans no longer feared for their safety. If they did, nobody would give a shit about the prisoners at gitmo.

Anyway, the point was if we are faced with choosing our safety or our ideals we'll pick safety every fucking time. But it sounded nice in his speech.

[FromWayDowntown]

Oh -- and if Gitmo is unconstitutional (I believe it so) , it seems like he's ordering it to remain open for another year. Another year of unjust imprisonment. Another year of denying human rights.

For no more than another year. I think the plan is to move as quickly as possible to dispositions of those detained there. I guess another year of unjust imprisonment and denying human rights is preferrable to interminably doing those things; and a prudent alternative to simply closing the camp without a clear plan for disposition of the detainees.

[FromWayDowntown]

It really doesn't matter if you or I think it was right or wrong. The point was, history shows Obama's statement to be false. When Americans truely believe their safety is at stake our ideals go right out the fucking window. Unless you've only read rats history books and think the US was nothing but noble during wwii.

Actually, I take Obama's statement to be one of his own principle and one that sets forth a forward-going policy rather than a comprehensive statement of past practices. That is, when Americans truly believe their safety is at stake, our Constitutional ideals should remain the baseline for deciding how best to allay those fears.

[ChumpDumper]

so where exactly is Obama going to put these guys? isn't KSM in there?Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is in the middle of a trial that that began last June and has at times become a circus.


if their native country doesn't want them they're dumped here. i don't see this accomplishing anything except to pacify the obamaniacs.If we try them and convict them, we either kill them or keep them in prison. Ramzi Yousef is in a supermax prison in Colorado after being convicted in a US District court. You need to tell us how his case is different from everyone else's in Gitmo if you want to justify a different method for detaining, trying and imprisoning them.

[SnakeBoy]

For no more than another year. I think the plan is to move as quickly as possible to dispositions of those detained there. I guess another year of unjust imprisonment and denying human rights is preferrable to interminably doing those things; and a prudent alternative to simply closing the camp without a clear plan for disposition of the detainees.

:lol

At this mornings press conference when a reporter questioned along the same lines as Lebowski's point the press secretary responded "The president believes that there's no more important job that he has than to keep the American people safe". Sounds Bushy to me.

[balli]

Anyway, the point was if we are faced with choosing our safety or our ideals we'll pick safety every fucking time. But it sounded nice in his speech.
Probably, if we're talking about shit really hitting the fan, plenty of people are dumb sheep. I'm not an idealist that would expect otherwise. But that doesn't mean we (the rest of us) should just assume some defeatist, complacency in which we just willingly sacrifice human rights so as to create the illusion of safety for the paranoid masses.

On safety and history: Were we any safer as a nation during WWII as a consequence of locking up Japanese men, women and children... American civilians? And even if we were safer, was it in anyway worth it compared to the cost/loss in Human Rights/American resources? I would say not. More importantly and unequivocally, HISTORY WOULD SAY NOT.

Considering other detention centers exist, or could exist, are we any safer for having a world wide eyesore and neo-con spectacle of a prison on the shores of some twisted Cuban bay? I would say not. And so leaving it open is basically just a measure to appease the dumb fucking sheep who want the illusion of safety (the 22 percenters, as I think of them). And that's dumb and it's a policy I personally... and most of the nation, wouldn't subscribe to.

[FromWayDowntown]

Sounds Bushy to me.

Evidenced, of course, by the fact that the President has signed an order to close Gitmo

[ratm1221]

II just wish you guys wouldn't be so mean, hateful and profane in your responses to and about me.

You are mental. You start a thread with the word "idiot" in it, and then cry because people are mean to you. Typical conservative. They are the only ones that can play on the offensive and play the victim at the exact same time. Boo-freaking-hoo....

[RandomGuy]

Today Obama signed an executive order to close Gitmo within a year. He doesn't have a clue what to do with the terrorists detained there - but, by golly, in the interest of national security we're closing it anyway! :bang

Maybe Pelosi and Reed can sponsor a terrorist or two and let them come live with them... :lmao

1) There are a couple of dozen detainees there NOW that the Bush administration pretty much admitted were innocent.

2) Every day this stays open is a PR weapon that is used to recruit new people to the al Qaeda cause.

Why do people like you support the terrorists and want it open?

Do you hate America that badly?

[LnGrrrR]

So what? 61 detainees who were released went right back to the terrorist camps and continued right where they left off! Those who were "innocent" probably weren't - they just didn't have enough evidence against them.

So human rights take precedence over national security - makes me feel all warm and fuzzy!

Right! And in America, if you're only POSSIBLY guilty, then we should be able to detain you forever! We shouldn't have to PROVE guilt!

[ChumpDumper]

Seriously crooks, what can be done in Gitmo that can't be done elsewhere?

Again I use the Ramzi Yousef example.

[RandomGuy]

So human rights take precedence over national security - makes me feel all warm and fuzzy!

False choice.

Human rights = national security

We will never be secure when our enemies can use our own hypocrisy to spread the idea that we are evil in order to convince people to kill us.

I am sorry if you don't understand the underlying nature of the conflict, but this is really a good move for many reasons.

[Blake]

Obama's First Idiot Order


.....I think the libs suffer from a mental disorder........


I just wish you guys wouldn't be so mean, hateful and profane in your responses to and about me. Can't we have civil discourse without the obscenities and profanities? I find it very offensive - and it lowers my opinion of you even further.

you want my opinion of you?

[Crookshanks]

Right! And in America, if you're only POSSIBLY guilty, then we should be able to detain you forever! We shouldn't have to PROVE guilt!

These are NOT American citizens! They are not entitled to the same protections afforded us under the constitution.

They're terrorists who would slit your throat just as quickly as mine - they don't care about your political views. I don't care what they do to them - I wouldn't be sad if an "accident" happened at Gitmo and all of the detainees died. Send them to their 72 virgins!

Let the insults and criticisms commence...

[RandomGuy]

Anyway, the point was if we are faced with choosing our safety or our ideals we'll pick safety every fucking time.

Moral authority is a very strong tool in fighting the idea that we are evil and deserve to die.

Moral authority was used to win India's independence. It was kind of hard to portray Ghandi as a terrorist that deserved to be jailed.

If the US could really demonstrate once again to the world that we are committed to the ideals that founded our nation and are inherent in our constitution, then we finally start winning our "war" on the idea that we are evil.

[Crookshanks]

you want my opinion of you?
NOPE! I already know it. I'm talking strictly about obscenities and profanities - that's what I find offensive. It's not the name calling - that's to be expected in the political arena.

[RandomGuy]

These are NOT American citizens! They are not entitled to the same protections afforded us under the constitution.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

The rights in our constitution are only worthwhile if they are, AS THEY WERE INTENDED BY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS, applicable and good things for everybody.

If you say that they don't deserve rights because they aren't citizens then you are spitting on the founding fathers, because they believed that the rights we were fighting for were universal ones.

Why do you hate our country?

[Blake]

NOPE! I already know it. I'm talking strictly about obscenities and profanities - that's what I find offensive. It's not the name calling - that's to be expected in the political arena.

so it's ok if I call you stupid......just not a stupid focking b1tch....

got it.

[Blake]

The rights in our constitution are only worthwhile if they are, AS THEY WERE INTENDED BY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS, applicable and good things for everybody.

If you say that they don't deserve rights because they aren't citizens then you are spitting on the founding fathers, because they believed that the rights we were fighting for were universal ones.

Why do you hate our country?

good to see the declaration of independence posting here.

welcome to the board, D.

[ratm1221]

These are NOT American citizens! They are not entitled to the same protections afforded us under the constitution.

They're terrorists who would slit your throat just as quickly as mine - they don't care about your political views. I don't care what they do to them - I wouldn't be sad if an "accident" happened at Gitmo and all of the detainees died. Send them to their 72 virgins!

Let the insults and criticisms commence...

So because someone isn't an American Citizen, they don't have rights? You have a very twisted view.

[Winehole23]

They're terrorists who would slit your throat just as quickly as mine - they don't care about your political views. I don't care what they do to them - I wouldn't be sad if an "accident" happened at Gitmo and all of the detainees died. Send them to their 72 virgins!.What about the 500 or so we already sent home without charges of any kind?

Isn't it possible a few of them weren't really terrorists? Or is it your position that Bush has already turned loose 500 dangerous terrorists?

[FromWayDowntown]

The basic principles of adherence to the rule of law aren't necessarily constitutionally-defined.

But I think the Constitution should be, if nothing else, the aspirational view for treating everyone because it fundamentally represents our belief in basic human rights principles. When this War began, one thing that President Bush preached was his unwillingness to change America's fundamental respect for human rights in prosecuting a war against those who despise our values. I'd argue that the prosecution of the war to this point has eroded that commitment to some degree and I think President Obama is right to refocus our efforts upon successfully defending the homeland while at the same time standing true to the constitutional guarantees that we hold so dear.

And, by the way, if the Gitmo detainees were tried for criminal conduct against Americans based upon principles of American law, you can be damned certain that those persons would be entitled to constitutional protections in that process. The comparison is somewhat inapt, but it's undoubtedly true that if a Mexican citizen commits a crime in Texas and is tried for that crime by Americans, all of the protections afforded by the Constitution apply to that Mexican citizen in the course of that trial.

[ChumpDumper]

Bueller?
Seriously crooks, what can be done in Gitmo that can't be done elsewhere?

Again I use the Ramzi Yousef example.Fry?

[clambake]

crooks can't be happy without fear. she swallowed every inch.

[baseline bum]

Considering other detention centers exist, or could exist, are we any safer for having a world wide eyesore and neo-con spectacle of a prison on the shores of some twisted Cuban bay? I would say not. And so leaving it open is basically just a measure to appease the dumb fucking sheep who want the illusion of safety (the 22 percenters, as I think of them). And that's dumb and it's a policy I personally... and most of the nation, wouldn't subscribe to.

22 percenters? :lol

man, that is classic

[DarkReign]

The basic principles of adherence to the rule of law aren't necessarily constitutionally-defined.

[sic]

And, by the way, if the Gitmo detainees were tried for criminal conduct against Americans based upon principles of American law, you can be damned certain that those persons would be entitled to constitutional protections in that process. The comparison is somewhat inapt, but it's undoubtedly true that if a Mexican citizen commits a crime in Texas and is tried for that crime by Americans, all of the protections afforded by the Constitution apply to that Mexican citizen in the course of that trial.

I think I have asked you this before, I cant remember...

Are you a Constitutional Lawyer? Or some other specialization?

I know lawyers, they dont necessarily have your grasp of Federal law...shit, half of them cant get local law right.

Obviously, you dont have to answer any of this if its something you wish not to discuss.

[DrHouse]

God damn that house negro

[Wild Cobra]

I find it funny how he refers to "Greg" on what the executive orders are in the future. Who's in Charge?

B8NJQa0pXPM

[ChumpDumper]

Who's in Charge?Clearly Obama is in charge.

[Winehole23]

WC is twitting Obama for needing help with his homework.

Classic!

[DarrinS]

Why is Gitmo such a burr in the butt of your average liberal?

Just curious.


If it's true that what they're doing in Gitmo could be done in your average max security prison, then why not leave them where they are? What would be accomplished by moving them?

[DrHouse]

When the rednecks are in uproar it's usually a good thing.

[ChumpDumper]

Why is Gitmo such a burr in the butt of your average liberal?

Just curious.


If it's true that what they're doing in Gitmo could be done in your average max security prison, then why not leave them where they are? What would be accomplished by moving them?Why is it there in the first place?

[200 miles]

When the rednecks are in uproar it's usually a good thing.


In time your backwards ideology that has recently plagued this country's goverment will slowly come to an end.

[Ya Vez]

did obama close down the school of the americas, did he stop the rendition programs... closing gitmo is just smoke and mirrors.. if he was serious about torture he would have shut down the school of the americas today....

[TDMVPDPOY]

obama can just clean this up easily, leave them in cuba, let castro deal with it :D

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Just because it's bugging me--it's spelled **Gandhi** not Ghandi.

carry on

[Winehole23]

Why is Gitmo such a burr in the butt of your average liberal?Because arbitrary detention and torture are unamerican and contrary to our traditions. Plus which we're bound by treaty and statute not to torture and humiliate prisoners.

If treaty, statute, long standing American tradition, moral conscience, rational self-interest and the decent opinion of mankind don't persuade you I don't know what will, DarrinS.

BTW, you don't have to be liberal to believe this.


If it's true that what they're doing in Gitmo could be done in your average max security prison, then why not leave them where they are? What would be accomplished by moving them?Um, that stuff is not supposed to happen in American prisons either. Americans live there. Hello?

[ratm1221]

I find it funny how he refers to "Greg" on what the executive orders are in the future. Who's in Charge?

Why are you so bitter? You need to remove that stick.

[DarrinS]

Because arbitrary detention and torture are unamerican and contrary to our traditions. Plus which we're bound by treaty and statute not to torture and humiliate prisoners.

If treaty, statute, long standing American tradition, moral conscience, rational self-interest and the decent opinion of mankind don't persuade you I don't know what will, DarrinS.

BTW, you don't have to be liberal to believe this.

Um, that stuff is not supposed to happen in American prisons either. Americans live there. Hello?



At least you had a well thought-out answer. Thanks.

BTW, if only American prisoners had it as good as Gitmo prisoners.

[LnGrrrR]

Darrin, I've been to GTMO. Now, granted, I went in 02, and I didn't see any interrogation chambers or anything like that, but I can certainly tell you it's no club med.

[DarrinS]

Darrin, I've been to GTMO. Now, granted, I went in 02, and I didn't see any interrogation chambers or anything like that, but I can certainly tell you it's no club med.



Well, I don't think it was designed to be a resort.


Would these people be more comfortable at San Quentin?

[clambake]

Well, I don't think it was designed to be a resort.


Would these people be more comfortable at San Quentin?

wouldn't it be more appropriate for bush to take them with him?

if texas is so happy to have him back, shouldn't that include the baggage?

[DarrinS]

wouldn't it be more appropriate for bush to take them with him?

if texas is so happy to have him back, shouldn't that include the baggage?


That was just dumb. Don't become a boutons. You're better than that.

[clambake]

That was just dumb. Don't become a boutons. You're better than that.

i'm from n. ireland and i know more about the principles that this country was built on.

why else would you want to kill habeas corpus?(sp)

why would you just let bush walk away from it?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Those who were "innocent" probably weren't - they just didn't have enough evidence against them.

So human rights take precedence over national security - makes me feel all warm and fuzzy!



That's funny - those detainees are living better than they ever did in their home country!


These are NOT American citizens! They are not entitled to the same protections afforded us under the constitution.

They're terrorists who would slit your throat just as quickly as mine - they don't care about your political views. I don't care what they do to them - I wouldn't be sad if an "accident" happened at Gitmo and all of the detainees died. Send them to their 72 virgins!



Let the insults and criticisms commence...

ok...

you're a stupid fucking cunt that I wouldn't mind got shot in the fucking face. So you think Americans are the only ones who should get basic rights you ignorant slut. You're the reason why America's image is so in need of a complete fucking overhaul. Ignorant jackasses like yourself give every other decent, intelligent and informed American a bad name. Hope you get run over by a truck.

ok, insults and criticisms, over.

[RandomGuy]

Just because it's bugging me--it's spelled **Gandhi** not Ghandi.

carry on

Hmm...

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001006.html

Indeed it is.

Thanks a lot, I appreciate it.

[LnGrrrR]

Well, I don't think it was designed to be a resort.


Would these people be more comfortable at San Quentin?

I don't know how much leeway San Quentin prisoners have. I doubt it's less leeway than GTMO prisoners though.

[BRHornet45]

I couldn't care less what the Whottts, Crookshanks, and WildCobras of the forum feel on the subject. They're all in meltdown mode because they don't like whats happening and thats fine. I have no intrest in trying to change that.

I - along with the vast majority of Americans who have seen where the policies of the previous 8 years have sown and reeped - agree this is the nessecary course of action and thats pretty much all that matters.

of course you do Manny! you will agree with ANYTHING Obama says or does because you worship the man. not his politics, but the man himself.

[DarkReign]

Hmm...

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001006.html

Indeed it is.

Thanks a lot, I appreciate it.

I (obviously) didnt know that either.

[Ya Vez]

lets just send them all to Egypt I am sure the prisons there are better suited for torture... or I am sure the general population in huntsville will enjoy having these high profile guest....

[DarkReign]

If you send these prisoners to a normal, non-federal prisons, or even worse to a federal prison, they wont last a week.

[Kori Ellis]

ok...

you're a stupid fucking cunt that I wouldn't mind got shot in the fucking face. So you think Americans are the only ones who should get basic rights you ignorant slut. You're the reason why America's image is so in need of a complete fucking overhaul. Ignorant jackasses like yourself give every other decent, intelligent and informed American a bad name. Hope you get run over by a truck.

ok, insults and criticisms, over.

I'm not sure what prompted this to be so vile, but come on. Don't go around wishing death/injury to people. I know I let people go wild in the Political Forum most of the time but even if this were in jest, it's not appropriate.

I know you are a good guy. So don't let people get to you so much that you stoop so low.

Thanks.

[clambake]

or I am sure the general population in huntsville will enjoy having these high profile guest....

+1

that would be much more appropriate.

[ratm1221]

I'm not sure what prompted this to be so vile, but come on. Don't go around wishing death/injury to people. I know I let people go wild in the Political Forum most of the time but even if this were in jest, it's not appropriate.

I know you are a good guy. So don't let people get to you so much that you stoop so low.

Thanks.

Trying to rationalize with crazy people sometimes will make you crazy yourself.

[LnGrrrR]

If you send these prisoners to a normal, non-federal prisons, or even worse to a federal prison, they wont last a week.

To be fair, Glenn Greenwald has written an article that shows how other terrorists are located in prisons right now.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I'm not sure what prompted this to be so vile, but come on. Don't go around wishing death/injury to people. I know I let people go wild in the Political Forum most of the time but even if this were in jest, it's not appropriate.

I know you are a good guy. So don't let people get to you so much that you stoop so low.

Thanks.

yeah, I don't take so well to being considered a second class human being, which is pretty much what Crookshanks was implying with this little gem


These are NOT American citizens! They are not entitled to the same protections afforded us under the constitution.
Plus, minus the profanity, her post wasn't much different than mine


I don't care what they do to them - I wouldn't be sad if an "accident" happened at Gitmo and all of the detainees diedthat is not exactly well wishes and happy thoughts. Just that she's talking about people whose name she doesn't know.

Having said that, I appologize to you or anyone else that was offended. I don't usually go overboard, but this amount of willfull ignorance really pisses me off. Couple that with arrogance and you've got a molotov cocktail that pushes all the right buttons.

Again, my appologies if anyone (other than Crookshanks) was offended.

P.S. I don't really wish her to die, just that she'd get some sense knocked into that airhead of hers.

[hater]

so where are they going to serve cock meat sandwiches to Terrorist suspects????

[DarrinS]

ok...

you're a stupid fucking cunt that I wouldn't mind got shot in the fucking face. So you think Americans are the only ones who should get basic rights you ignorant slut. You're the reason why America's image is so in need of a complete fucking overhaul. Ignorant jackasses like yourself give every other decent, intelligent and informed American a bad name. Hope you get run over by a truck.

ok, insults and criticisms, over.


Take two -- please.

http://www.firstaidmonster.com/images/products/FAM_MIDOL_MAX_STRENGTH_CAPLE-5300.jpg

[hater]

that croockshank deserves to eat cock meat sandwiches everyday of his life!

[clambake]

maybe she does.

[Supergirl]

Bush was in office for 8 years, it's ridiculous and UNCONSTITUTIONAL that there are people being held there for most of that time, without access to a lawyer or being charged with anything.

Obama isn't closing Gitmo tomorrow. A year is plenty of time to make a decision about each and every person in there. Some will be released, but some may be prosecuted, and this will expedite the process of that prosecution.

Naomi Wolf wrote about how one of the ten key indicators a democracy is being closed down (what she refers to as a "fascist shift") are secret prisons, which are outside the rule of law. I agree with what others on this board have said - if stopping terrorism means destroying the free and open society we have, then the terrorists have already won. Obama is a constitutional scholar - this is what we elected him for. To restore the tenets of the constitution.

[doobs]

Bush was in office for 8 years, it's ridiculous and UNCONSTITUTIONAL that there are people being held there for most of that time, without access to a lawyer or being charged with anything.

Obama isn't closing Gitmo tomorrow. A year is plenty of time to make a decision about each and every person in there. Some will be released, but some may be prosecuted, and this will expedite the process of that prosecution.

Naomi Wolf wrote about how one of the ten key indicators a democracy is being closed down (what she refers to as a "fascist shift") are secret prisons, which are outside the rule of law. I agree with what others on this board have said - if stopping terrorism means destroying the free and open society we have, then the terrorists have already won. Obama is a constitutional scholar - this is what we elected him for. To restore the tenets of the constitution.

So why is Obama the constitutional scholar tolerating another year of unconstitutional detention? If he really cared about the Constitution, wouldn't he have closed Gitmo on Tuesday?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Again, I'd like to appologize to anyone that got offended by my little tirade there. I just get sick and tired of some people in here believing that human rights are solely an American commodity.

[Crookshanks]

You guys will never learn and you'll never change. You are mean, hateful people who can't stand that someone has a different viewpoint. I've had it with all of you! I come from a generation where that type of language was NEVER used in public, and especially if there were women present. Shame on all of you.

This younger generation has no respect and no self restraint. You think you should be able to say whatever you want to whoever you want. Oh - and we're supposed to feel kindness towards the terrorist who seek to destroy this country; but it's open season to express any and all vile, hateful and obscene remarks to christians.

Kori tried to gently chide you - but you just don't get it. And that apology wasn't worth anything! You all can just have your hatefest - but there's one less christian to kick around.

[hater]

So why is Obama the constitutional scholar tolerating another year of unconstitutional detention? If he really cared about the Constitution, wouldn't he have closed Gitmo on Tuesday?

it takes time to clean up somebody else's mess

[hater]

You guys will never learn and you'll never change. You are mean, hateful people who can't stand that someone has a different viewpoint. I've had it with all of you! I come from a generation where that type of language was NEVER used in public, and especially if there were women present. Shame on all of you.

This younger generation has no respect and no self restraint. You think you should be able to say whatever you want to whoever you want. Oh - and we're supposed to feel kindness towards the terrorist who seek to destroy this country; but it's open season to express any and all vile, hateful and obscene remarks to christians.

Kori tried to gently chide you - but you just don't get it. And that apology wasn't worth anything! You all can just have your hatefest - but there's one less christian to kick around.

that is the problem with old folk. they think their old ways of thinking don't seriously offend ppl .

When you say, "those ppl probably live better in guantanamo than in their countries" that offends ppl. But you don't give a fuck

when you say, "even those innocent ppl are probaly guilty, but no evidence" that offends ppll. that is truly an ignorant statement and hurtful to ppl and family of innocents who have been tortured.

so who is truly the most offensive poster in this thread? I say crookshank

[MaNuMaNiAc]

You guys will never learn and you'll never change. You are mean, hateful people who can't stand that someone has a different viewpoint. I've had it with all of you! I come from a generation where that type of language was NEVER used in public, and especially if there were women present. Shame on all of you.

This younger generation has no respect and no self restraint. You think you should be able to say whatever you want to whoever you want. Oh - and we're supposed to feel kindness towards the terrorist who seek to destroy this country; but it's open season to express any and all vile, hateful and obscene remarks to christians.

Kori tried to gently chide you - but you just don't get it. And that apology wasn't worth anything! You all can just have your hatefest - but there's one less christian to kick around.

ok, let me be perfectly clear about this. My appology was directed primarily at Kori. I have enormous respect for what she does and how she does it. Secondly, I was appologizing to anyone else that might have been offended because if I'm being honest, I did go overboard and that was vile language.

HOWEVER, and this is a big however, at no point was I appologizing to you. I could give a rats ass whether you're offended or not. You ask for civility in language but don't give a fuck about the hatefull content that you spew around here on a daily basis. You want people to respect your point of view, try and EVOLVE a little then.

You should know that even though my appology was not directed at you, I did not in any way mean what I said about wishing you dead. It was a bullshit rant out of anger, and it holds no meaning or purpose other than to blow steam.

Every other thing I said about you though, I meant.

[clambake]

You all can just have your hatefest - but there's one less christian to kick around.


i'd appreciate it if you would stop pretending about our relationship.

[Extra Stout]

GUANTANAMO BAY: A BRIEF SKETCH

Starring:
Khalid
Mahmoud
Lieutenant
Elderly American Fundamentalist Christian Woman

----------------------------------
(Opening scene: Afghan countryside)

Khalid: Oh, I am a simple goat herder! I surely love my wife and children! I shall herd with all my might in this rugged countryside!

Mahmoud: Hmm... I am jealous of Khalid's goat pasture. I want it for my goats. My pasture is poor and rocky. His is full of grass.

(American humvee motors by)

Mahmoud: I have an idea!

----------------------------------
(Two days later, in a dimly lit filthy room)

Khalid: AIEEEEEEEEE!!!!!! WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME!!!!!!!

----------------------------------
(One week later, Afghan countryside)

Afghan guy: My goats are well-fed and happy! I am rich!

----------------------------------
(Two years later, someplace in Cuba)

Khalid: AIEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

(Door opens and slams)

Lieutenant: Remove the hot poker from the prisoner at once! Turns out he's innocent. Send him back to his cell. We will process his release papers.

----------------------------------
(One month later, Texas)

(Elderly American Fundamentalist Christian Woman reading newspaper at home)

Elderly American Fundamentalist Christian Woman: This is terrible! Why are they releasing terrorists?! If they don't have any evidence, they're probably still guilty! I mean, look at them! I hope these scum die! Oh, look at the clock, time for bible study.

THE END

[MaNuMaNiAc]

GUANTANAMO BAY: A BRIEF SKETCH

Starring:
Khalid
Mahmoud
Lieutenant
Elderly American Fundamentalist Christian Woman

----------------------------------
(Opening scene: Afghan countryside)

Khalid: Oh, I am a simple goat herder! I surely love my wife and children! I shall herd with all my might in this rugged countryside!

Mahmoud: Hmm... I am jealous of Khalid's goat pasture. I want it for my goats. My pasture is poor and rocky. His is full of grass.

(American humvee motors by)

Mahmoud: I have an idea!

----------------------------------
(Two days later)

Khalid: AIEEEEEEEEE!!!!!! WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME!!!!!!!

----------------------------------
(One week later)

Afghan guy: My goats are well-fed and happy! I am rich!

----------------------------------
(Two years later)

Khalid: AIEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

(Door opens and slams)

Lieutenant: Remove the hot poker from the prisoner at once! Turns out he's innocent. Send him back to his cell. We will process his release papers.

----------------------------------
(One month later)

(Elderly American Fundamentalist Christian Woman reading newspaper at home)

Elderly American Fundamentalist Christian Woman: This is terrible! Why are they releasing terrorists?! If they don't have any evidence, they're probably still guilty! I mean, look at them! I hope these scum die! Oh, look at the clock, time for bible study.

THE END

:lol

[ratm1221]

You guys will never learn and you'll never change. You are mean, hateful people who can't stand that someone has a different viewpoint. I've had it with all of you! I come from a generation where that type of language was NEVER used in public, and especially if there were women present. Shame on all of you.

This younger generation has no respect and no self restraint. You think you should be able to say whatever you want to whoever you want. Oh - and we're supposed to feel kindness towards the terrorist who seek to destroy this country; but it's open season to express any and all vile, hateful and obscene remarks to christians.

Kori tried to gently chide you - but you just don't get it. And that apology wasn't worth anything! You all can just have your hatefest - but there's one less christian to kick around.

You don't get it an you never will. If you don't like that the United States believes in due process and civil liberties, you need to go somewhere else. If you were a true christian, you would understand that every person has human rights. Not just those that live in the US. If you were a true christian, you wouldn't promote torture and imprisonment on unproven accusations. If your Christ were to see you, he would be sick. If you approve of torture and the indefinite suspension civil liberties, you are no different then the terrorists.

What would you do if you found out that that someone you were doing business with was providing money to terrorist and you had no idea. Here comes the federal government that sends you to Gitmo and under the Patriot Act they held you there forever, with no evidence, and no lawyer. I think you would be singing a different tune.

[Blake]

GUANTANAMO BAY: A BRIEF SKETCH

Starring:
Khalid
Mahmoud
Lieutenant
Elderly American Fundamentalist Christian Woman

----------------------------------
(Opening scene: Afghan countryside)

Khalid: Oh, I am a simple goat herder! I surely love my wife and children! I shall herd with all my might in this rugged countryside!

Mahmoud: Hmm... I am jealous of Khalid's goat pasture. I want it for my goats. My pasture is poor and rocky. His is full of grass.

(American humvee motors by)

Mahmoud: I have an idea!

----------------------------------
(Two days later, in a dimly lit filthy room)

Khalid: AIEEEEEEEEE!!!!!! WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME!!!!!!!

----------------------------------
(One week later, Afghan countryside)

Afghan guy: My goats are well-fed and happy! I am rich!

----------------------------------
(Two years later, someplace in Cuba)

Khalid: AIEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

(Door opens and slams)

Lieutenant: Remove the hot poker from the prisoner at once! Turns out he's innocent. Send him back to his cell. We will process his release papers.

----------------------------------
(One month later, Texas)

(Elderly American Fundamentalist Christian Woman reading newspaper at home)

Elderly American Fundamentalist Christian Woman: This is terrible! Why are they releasing terrorists?! If they don't have any evidence, they're probably still guilty! I mean, look at them! I hope these scum die! Oh, look at the clock, time for bible study.

THE END

not bad

:lol

[clambake]

props to ES. trying to school crooks in a way she might understand.

[caribbean_spur]

These are NOT American citizens! They are not entitled to the same protections afforded us under the constitution.



I have to say, I do not like going into those heated conversations, but reading this made me choke on my food. It is very scary to think that people would not afford me the same constitutional rights because I am not an American citizen, being part of this community as long as I have been.

Some people like claiming that America is this beautiful country, with wonderful human rights laws but then would want to forget all about these same laws for the sake of safety. Failing to realize that without these rights, America would not be any better than the countries they are fighting to give the people those very rights?

How screwed up is this?

I do not know Crookshanks, but after reading this whole thread all I have to say is her reality must be messed up to believe the things she believes. And to think that because she is "Christian" and that she does not curse she must feel such a better person than any of us.... God help us!

[CavsSuperFan]

Report: Ex-Gitmo detainee joins al-Qaida in Yemen…

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090123/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_yemen_al_qaida

[The Reckoning]

so are we trying to detain terrorists or shoot/bomb them???

[Duff McCartney]

The people in Guantanamo are being treated like blacks and mexicans in a court of law.....they are all guilty until proven guilty.

[Supergirl]

Report: Ex-Gitmo detainee joins al-Qaida in Yemen…

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090123/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_yemen_al_qaida

"The announcement, made this week on a Web site commonly used by militants"

Not the most reliable news source.

Also, this has nothing to do with Obama's decision to close Gitmo - this person would have been released under Bush's term. It's manipulative, deceptive journalism.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Jefferson and Locke described rights to be inalienable.

Also I see quite a few people commenting on the people detained there. I know that none of you have read any of the intelligence reports about the prisoners there. Its all classified so making statements one way or anotehr is baseless.

[SnakeBoy]

so are we trying to detain terrorists or shoot/bomb them???

Either way, we are violating the rights our founding fathers gave to to everyone in the world.

[ChumpDumper]

Nobody gave everyone the rights, that's the whole point.

[Nbadan]

Either find them guilty, i.e. with due process, or release them....Dubya has tried to dance around this issue for far too long...

[DarkReign]

Either way, we are violating the rights our founding fathers gave to to everyone in the world.

Incorrect. It should be, that when in the American justice system (whther foreign or domestic) you are afforded these rights. For better or worse. No subsitutions.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Republicans heart gitmo.

[SnakeBoy]

Incorrect. It should be, that when in the American justice system (whther foreign or domestic) you are afforded these rights. For better or worse. No subsitutions.

They're not in the american justice system. How about this, Obama issues a take no prisoners order to our soldiers and then we release them all onto the battlefield and drop bombs on them. That way the ones that are terrorists get what they deserve and any innocent ones just had the misfortune of being too close to the terrorists. We can all feel bad for the innocent ones but accept that collateral damage is unavoidable.

[Winehole23]

So why is Obama the constitutional scholar tolerating another year of unconstitutional detention? If he really cared about the Constitution, wouldn't he have closed Gitmo on Tuesday?Apparently it's not that easy. There are no comprehensive case files (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/24/AR2009012401702.html?hpid=moreheadlines) on the detainees; the information is spread throughout the government.

The government strategy was never geared to meeting the standards of ordinary criminal procedure. It was designed to produce kangaroo court convictions using secret evidence and untested witnesses, some of whom gave information under physical duress from their captors.

Information about the detainees must be collected from the various agencies that are holding it, before Obama can begin in earnest to sort them all out. The agencies may not wish to cooperate without securing immunity from prosecution beforehand, so I wouldn't hold my breath about the actual Gitmo closing. Unless we are continuing to outsource it, or cramming our overseas dungeons at the last minute, torture would seem to be officially verboten now.

It's about time.

[ipeefreely]

So you support concentration camps? Nazi.

One of those turds they cut loose from Git is now back on the top of the terror lists, we are talking about TERRORISTS, FUKK THEM, waterboard them, do whatever is needed to gain intel, I could careless, they are evil at its core......
They deserve no rights, they take innocent life, women, children, etc...

Grow up and think a little...

Somewhere Patton is rolling over in his grave.

[Winehole23]

If I wasn't a terrorist and went to "Git," I might come out one.

[ipeefreely]

If I wasn't a terrorist and went to "Git," I might come out one.

im tearing up, :sleep:toast

I hope the pain was 11 on a scale of 1-10 for those mother fukkers, and if they are there, in someway shape or form they are GUILTY.....

Dont question my patriotism, Grandfather stormed Normandy, my dad was a Navy office in charge of gunnery on his heavy cruiser, its thoughts like yours that lead to events like 9/11...

I choose to live in reality, once a terrorist always a terrorist, I laughed my arse off when they killed the Hussein bros and hung Saddam, butchers...

[Winehole23]

im tearing up, :sleep:toast

I hope the pain was 11 on a scale of 1-10 for those mother fukkers, and if they are there, in someway shape or form they are GUILTY.....Why then were 500 men let go without charges? And why does the USG keep losing the fight to keep terrorists out of open court? When they do get there the evidence has turned out to be mostly non-probative. Meaning crap. You'd practically have to believe Boba Fett is a honest jailer to buy that all the guys there deserve to be there.

They were apprehended in the fog of war. There were bound to be a few mistakes, and we tortured guys for names. If they put the thumbscrews on me, I'd for sure use the opportunity to settle some personal scores, and if I was Boba Fett collecting $5000 cash per head for Taliban, I'd round up whoever was easiest to round up.

[Winehole23]

Dont question my patriotism, Grandfather stormed Normandy, my dad was a Navy office in charge of gunnery on his heavy cruiser, its thoughts like yours that lead to events like 9/11....Did I?

[Wild Cobra]

If I wasn't a terrorist and went to "Git," I might come out one.
Improper incarcerations happen from time to time. Use that as a test, then you would be one to advocate no penalties, in fear of those very few improperly jailed. Eliminate law enforcement. Simply have a chaotic society.

Nothing is ever perfect. It's a chance we must all live with to ensure a better society.

[JoeChalupa]

This will take time.

[Winehole23]

Improper incarcerations happen from time to time. Use that as a test, then you would be one to advocate no penalties, in fear of those very few improperly jailed. Eliminate law enforcement. Simply have a chaotic society.

Nothing is ever perfect. It's a chance we must all live with to ensure a better society.It's disingenuous to pretend that the only alternative to indefinite detention and torture is anarchy, when the obvious one is the criminal justice system. Prosecute em all. I'm ok with that.

What I do have a problem with is the suggestion that because we are imperfect we should resign ourselves to mistakes. Where criminal justice is involved these mistakes could not be more catastrophic: they can rob innocent people of their liberty and their lives. In the terrorist gulag, it can get even worse.

To wave this off in advance as a necessary sacrifice for law and order seems callous and cruel in its nonchalance.

My point was, one's sublime appreciation of necessary sacrifices may change considerably, when you are the sacrifice.

[Shastafarian]

im tearing up, :sleep:toast

I hope the pain was 11 on a scale of 1-10 for those mother fukkers, and if they are there, in someway shape or form they are GUILTY.....

Dont question my patriotism, Grandfather stormed Normandy, my dad was a Navy office in charge of gunnery on his heavy cruiser, its thoughts like yours that lead to events like 9/11...

I choose to live in reality, once a terrorist always a terrorist, I laughed my arse off when they killed the Hussein bros and hung Saddam, butchers...

So I take it you were/are not in the military?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Improper incarcerations happen from time to time. Use that as a test, then you would be one to advocate no penalties, in fear of those very few improperly jailed. Eliminate law enforcement. Simply have a chaotic society.

Nothing is ever perfect. It's a chance we must all live with to ensure a better society.

Sacrificies are all well and good when you're not the one that has to make them you hypocritical fuck. I wonder what tune you'd be singing if it was a family member of yours that was wrongly convicted, or even yourself.

[ChumpDumper]

I hope Wild Cobra is detained and his rights denied.

For the greater good.

[Homeland Security]

The concept is so simple. Why can't you libs understand it?

White = good, pure, just, safe, trustworthy, law-abiding, Christian, American

Nonwhite = bad, blemished, crooked, dangerous, untrustworthy, criminal, Muslim, foreign

The detainees at Gitmo are guilty because they are not white people. If they were innocent, they would be white. We would know to release them on account of their whiteness.

Also, if they are in the Middle East, they are by definition Muslims, which is sufficient grounds to kill them. Muslims are either terrorists, future terrorists, or terrorist funders.

I already miss the Bush Administration.

[Michael Brown]

I already miss the Bush Administration.

I do too. :depressed

[LnGrrrR]

These are NOT American citizens! They are not entitled to the same protections afforded us under the constitution.

They're terrorists who would slit your throat just as quickly as mine - they don't care about your political views. I don't care what they do to them - I wouldn't be sad if an "accident" happened at Gitmo and all of the detainees died. Send them to their 72 virgins!

Let the insults and criticisms commence...

So is it your contention that not a single person in GTMO is falsely detained, falsely accused?

Or is it just your belief that Americans should be able to lock up whoever they want around the world because they aren't citizens of the US?

[Blake]

Dont question my patriotism, Grandfather stormed Normandy, my dad was a Navy office in charge of gunnery on his heavy cruiser, its thoughts like yours that lead to events like 9/11...



and you follow in their footsteps by hanging out at spurstalk talking nonsense.

I salute you, sir.

[RandomGuy]

One of those turds they cut loose from Git is now back on the top of the terror lists, we are talking about TERRORISTS, FUKK THEM, waterboard them, do whatever is needed to gain intel, I could careless, they are evil at its core......
They deserve no rights, they take innocent life, women, children, etc...

Grow up and think a little...

Somewhere Patton is rolling over in his grave.

1) There are a couple of dozen detainees there NOW that the Bush administration pretty much admitted were innocent.

2) Every day this stays open is a PR weapon that is used to recruit new people to the al Qaeda cause.

Why do people like you support the terrorists and want it open?

Do you hate America that badly?

[RandomGuy]

im tearing up, :sleep:toast

I hope the pain was 11 on a scale of 1-10 for those mother fukkers, and if they are there, in someway shape or form they are GUILTY.....

Dont question my patriotism, Grandfather stormed Normandy, my dad was a Navy office in charge of gunnery on his heavy cruiser, its thoughts like yours that lead to events like 9/11...

I choose to live in reality, once a terrorist always a terrorist, I laughed my arse off when they killed the Hussein bros and hung Saddam, butchers...

The reality is that not all muslims are inclined to actively participate in the Al Qaeda movement.

The reality is that new recruits are easier for Al Qaeda to acquire when our enemies can use our own hypocrisy to spread the idea that we are evil.

I am sorry if you don't understand the underlying nature of the conflict, but this is really a good move for many reasons.

If the first reality is not something that you are capable of comprehending or acknowledging just say so, and I can stop bothering to reply to you.