Is Manu Ginobili Just A Jump Shooter These Days?

[klwa]

If my memory serves me correct, Manu used to be fearless driving to the whole and finishing around the basket.

These days, he's been looking like an Argentinian Michael Finley.

Is he still "getting back into shape after the surgery"? Or is he washed up? Or maybe I am delusional and don't remember correctly the type of player he was?


I don't think the Spurs can win with Manu just standing around chucking up three-pointers. They are at their best when he is driving to the basket and creating plays. It opens up the entire offense.

[ducks]

no he likes to turn the ball over to

[klwa]

no he likes to turn the ball over to


You're right, I forgot about that.

[Kori Ellis]

Just a few games ago, Manu looked like he was getting back into form - being a lot more aggressive and taking it to the rack. The last two games, he hasn't been himself but I think it's WAY too early to think that he's just washed up and a jump shooter now.

[Quiet Strength]

Injuries change a player.

[timvp]

no he likes to turn the ball over to

:td

[ducks]

truth hurt?

he played well then he has another setup after his injury

he is not above getting called out
he also does not trust hill on the second unit
hill does not turn the ball over

I would trade manu for diaw

[ElNono]

He's not even shooting these days. How many shots did he take today?

[Kori Ellis]

He's not even shooting these days. How many shots did he take today?

11 in 25 minutes. (He missed 5 out of 6 three pointers).

[timvp]

Anyways, Manu is driving into the paint as much as he was last season. He's finishing even better than he was last season. The only thing wrong with his offense is that he's not hitting his jumpers at a high enough rate -- specifically his three-pointers.

He's not dunking, he might have a few more "interesting" turnovers per minute but Ginobili's general play offensively is the same as last season.

[timvp]

truth hurt?


I would trade manu for diaw

I wouldn't trade Manu four three Diaws.

[ducks]

yeah you would trade him when he has no value left at all or let him walk

[Russ]

Ask Dwyane Wade.

[ElNono]

Anyways, Manu is driving into the paint as much as he was last season. He's finishing even better than he was last season. The only thing wrong with his offense is that he's not hitting his jumpers at a high enough rate -- specifically his three-pointers.

He's not dunking, he might have a few more "interesting" turnovers per minute but Ginobili's general play offensively is the same as last season.

I'm still waiting for his 6 or 7 game run scoring 20+ and shooting 60%+ from the field. To his credit, it happened around the All Star break last year.

[ducks]

diaw proved without amare he can be the man
manu is also going to be be a question mark about health in playoffs
and you have to play him only 25 minutes a game hoping he has something left
with diaw you can play him as many as you want
spurs are not the knicks and can not afford to pay max to people who only play 25 minutes a game

[ElNono]

diaw proved without amare he can be the man
manu is also going to be be a question mark about health in playoffs
and you have to play him only 25 minutes a game hoping he has something left
with diaw you can play him as many as you want
spurs are not the knicks and can not afford to pay max to people who only play 25 minutes a game

That's not Manu's decision, but the coach...

[kace]

[QUOTE=ducks;3055380]truth hurt?QUOTE]


well, even if manu being finished ends up being the truth, which is far from sure, i still see more reason for a true spurs fan to feel pain than to enjoy it.

[ducks]

That's not Manu's decision, but the coach...

spurs have seen what he does if he plays more then that
pop is not stupid

[Kori Ellis]

diaw proved without amare he can be the man
manu is also going to be be a question mark about health in playoffs
and you have to play him only 25 minutes a game hoping he has something left
with diaw you can play him as many as you want
spurs are not the knicks and can not afford to pay max to people who only play 25 minutes a game

You do realize that since Diaw has gone to Charlotte, he's averaging 13.6 pts and shooting 45.9 percent from the field. Both those numbers are LESS than Manu's averages, but Diaw plays 12 more minutes a game.

[ducks]

[QUOTE=ducks;3055380]truth hurt?QUOTE]


well, even if manu being finished ends up being the truth, which is far from sure, i still see more reason for a true spurs fan to feel pain than to enjoy it.

I feel it
I bleed black and silver
I live in suns land
I want another title:flag:

[ducks]

You do realize that since Diaw has gone to Charlotte, he's averaging 13.6 pts and shooting 45.9 percent from the field. Both those numbers are LESS than Manu's averages, but Diaw plays 12 more minutes a game.

hills numbers would go up
since manu does not trust hill
and spurs problem is a big
mason numbers would also go up without manu
and if spurs had mason instead of manu last year spurs beat lakers
and other posters posted the same thing

[kace]

You do realize that since Diaw has gone to Charlotte, he's averaging 13.6 pts and shooting 45.9 percent from the field. Both those numbers are LESS than Manu's averages, but Diaw plays 12 more minutes a game.

what about the assists and the rebounds ? what about the intangibles ? what about the scoring when really needed, not only the average ?

manu at his usual level is way better than diaw. but don't argue than right now, diaw isn't palying better than manu. it's just false.

[ducks]

spurs need a big
to get one you trade someone
manu is the most expandable
with manu you get a gamble he is VERY INCONSITENTANT
his passing is either brillaint or it is a turnover

which manu will you have when the game is on?
and manu in the playoffs MUST HAVE atleast 2 day rest to be effective
playoffs schedules are not always like that

[Kori Ellis]

hills numbers would go up
since manu does not trust hill
and spurs problem is a big
mason numbers would also go up without manu
and if spurs had mason instead of manu last year spurs beat lakers
and other posters posted the same thing



I don't see how anyone could want Diaw over Manu. Diaw is getting more boards and assists in Charlotte than he did in Phoenix, but his shooting percentage has dropped by 10 percentage points (though his 3 pt % is up). That's huge.

Plus with Diaw, you run the risk that he would gain 40 pounds in the offseason and take a year and a half to get back in shape again.

And Manu is a playoff warrior.

[ducks]

and with manu you risk he will get injured again
spurs tp would make sure diaw would not be overweight
they have a diet schedule
diaw shooting percent would go up because spurs have duncan suns had oneal

[ElNono]

spurs need a big
to get one you trade someone
manu is the most expandable
with manu you get a gamble he is VERY INCONSITENTANT
his passing is either brillaint or it is a turnover

which manu will you have when the game is on?
and manu in the playoffs MUST HAVE atleast 2 day rest to be effective
playoffs schedules are not always like that

Wow, you figured it all out... I wonder why they haven't tapped you for the GM post on the Spurs already...
Kneejerk fan...

[Kori Ellis]

and with manu you risk he will get injured again
spurs tp would make sure diaw would not be overweight
they have a diet schedule
diaw shooting percent would go up because spurs have duncan suns had oneal

Every team has a diet schedule. It didn't stop him last time.

[kace]

I don't see how anyone could want Diaw over Manu. Diaw is getting more boards and assists in Charlotte than he did in Phoenix, but his shooting percentage has dropped by 10 percentage points (though his 3 pt % is up). That's huge.



let aside the stats. are you arguing that diaw didn't help the bobcats since he joined them ? :rollin

[ducks]

tp his fellow country men would

[ElNono]

and with manu you risk he will get injured again
spurs tp would make sure diaw would not be overweight
they have a diet schedule
diaw shooting percent would go up because spurs have duncan suns had oneal

Sure. The same Diaw that managed to choke and hand over the Suns series for us last year... The problem with you is that you have very short memory...

[ducks]

let aside the stats. are you arguing that diaw didn't help the bobcats since he joined them ? :rollin

he has diaw is not the problem with the bobcats

[Kori Ellis]

let aside the stats. are you arguing that diaw didn't help the bobcats since he joined them ? :rollin

No, I'm not arguing that he doesn't help the Bobcats. I'm arguing that he's not an improvement for the Spurs over Manu.

[ducks]

Sure. The same Diaw that managed to choke and hand over the Suns series for us last year... The problem with you is that you have very short memory...

he was not used right
when suns did not go to amare but diaw
spurs were in trouble

[kace]

No, I'm not arguing that he doesn't help the Bobcats. I'm arguing that he's not an improvement for the Spurs over Manu.

over the real manu, for sure. and i still think manu can get back to his old self.

but you don't have to bash diaw unfairly to answer some manu hater. Diaw is a great overall player, too bad he hasn't proved to be clutch.

[ElNono]

he was not used right
when suns did not go to amare but diaw
spurs were in trouble

Excuses. They went to Diaw to end the game and he choked it away. We need a big, but we're not trading Manu to get it. The sooner it sinks in your head, the quicker we can end this thread.

[Kori Ellis]

over the real manu, for sure. and i still think manu can get back to his old self.

but you don't have to bash diaw unfairly to answer some manu hater. Diaw is a great overall player, too bad he hasn't proved to be clutch.

I'm not bashing him unfairly. I didn't even bash him. I said that his percentage has dropped astronomically and that he has a tendency to become overweight. I also said he averages less points than Manu in 12 more minutes per game. Those aren't bashes, just realities.

[ducks]

Excuses. They went to Diaw to end the game and he choked it away. We need a big, but we're not trading Manu to get it. The sooner it sinks in your head, the quicker we can end this thread.

did not say spurs were
but spurs would be smart to trade him when he has value
mason has proved he can be clutch late

[ducks]

Excuses. They went to Diaw to end the game and he choked it away. We need a big, but we're not trading Manu to get it. The sooner it sinks in your head, the quicker we can end this thread.

diaw with pop would be a better play then with that former suns coach

[ducks]

Excuses. They went to Diaw to end the game and he choked it away. We need a big, but we're not trading Manu to get it. The sooner it sinks in your head, the quicker we can end this thread.

so what is manu's excuses
he played well then sucked terrible
can not be his injuries because he played well recently

[ElNono]

so what is manu's excuses
he played well then sucked terrible
can not be his injuries because he played well recently

There's no excuse. He's just not playing well right now. All players go through those stretches. What we need is to figure out how can we help him get out of his slump if we want to have a chance, not throw him under the bus.
Obviously, I don't expect that from you, a complete hater.

[ElNono]

diaw with pop would be a better play then with that former suns coach

You just don't know that. KT looked great in Phoenix too, and then in Seattle. He's been OK for us guarding some bigs, but he's far from the solution.

[2centsworth]

Last years playoffs and this years storyline proves that the Spurs are not championship quality without the Old Manu. Old Manu was always the difference for this team. Funny that haters like Ducks will never admit how important Old Manu was to this squad.

Doesn't really matter because just look at who the Manu haters are, enough said. Nevertheless, this version of Manu is trade bait.

[stéphane]

I'd like Diaw on the team but his salary would have to be at least half of what he's getting right now. He's badly overpaid.

And not even Isiah would trade Manu for Diaw Ducks. Quit saying BS to prove your point.
We all know we aren't getting the best out of Manu right now but you must have selective amnesia to plead for such a ridiculous trade.

[InK]

Last years playoffs and this years storyline proves that the Spurs are not championship quality without the Old Manu. Old Manu was always the difference for this team. Funny that haters like Ducks will never admit how important Old Manu was to this squad.

Doesn't really matter because just look at who the Manu haters are, enough said. Nevertheless, this version of Manu is trade bait.

I agree, but giving up on Manu atm is giving up on the Spurs. Nothing that we will get in trade atm will be of "old" manu quality, and we are a quality matchup at best even with manu of old. All we can do is hold our breath, and hope he gets rolling.

[Otaku]

no he likes to turn the ball over to


Tony: 2.5 TOs/game
Manu: 2.0 TOs/game

:rolleyes

[Brazil]

If this team has a chance to win it, it's with Manu. If we trade Manu for Diaw our chances are lower end of the story even if I think that with Pop TP and Duncan Diaw would a monster.

[senorglory]

Last years playoffs and this years storyline proves that the Spurs are not championship quality without the Old Manu. Old Manu was always the difference for this team. Funny that haters like Ducks will never admit how important Old Manu was to this squad.

We cannot win without Old Manu. I sure hope our Old Manu isn't broken.

[roycrikside]

Seriously, does Ducks have some incriminating pictures of Kori or LJ or something? No matter what he writes, no matter how stupid or irresponsible it is, he doesn't get banned, punished, or threatened in any way.

We have to go through this every stupid fucking game Manu doesn't have like 20 points. Now he's saying (seriously, I presume) that we should trade him for Diaw and that Mason is more valuable and that the Spurs would've won the title last year with Mason instead of Manu, pretty much ignoring everything Manu did for the team outside of the Lakers series.

Why is he allowed to pollute the forum with his open hatred of Manu, with nobody saying anything?

[roycrikside]

Why do you type like a fucking retarded poet?

No matter how many times people show Ducks that Manu actually plays better on back to backs than any member of the team, he still sticks to the myth that Ginobili needs a week between games like an NFL player.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Seriously, does Ducks have some incriminating pictures of Kori or LJ or something? No matter what he writes, no matter how stupid or irresponsible it is, he doesn't get banned, punished, or threatened in any way.

We have to go through this every stupid fucking game Manu doesn't have like 20 points. Now he's saying (seriously, I presume) that we should trade him for Diaw and that Mason is more valuable and that the Spurs would've won the title last year with Mason instead of Manu, pretty much ignoring everything Manu did for the team outside of the Lakers series.

Why is he allowed to pollute the forum with his open hatred of Manu, with nobody saying anything?

Since when is stupidity a ban worthy offense?

[IronMexican]

I think it had a lot to do with Sasha being dressed. Manu just couldn't focus, although he never guarded him.

[doldrums]

Ducks, I normally ignore your comments, but your hate on Manu is sickening. I'll tell you what, we'll trade him for a snickers bar providing you return your home lobotomy set. It's embarrassing to have you as a fellow spurs fan. If it were an intelligent discussion it would be one thing, but you just toss out names of people that you HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT.

[ducks]

Last years playoffs and this years storyline proves that the Spurs are not championship quality without the Old Manu. Old Manu was always the difference for this team. Funny that haters like Ducks will never admit how important Old Manu was to this squad.

Doesn't really matter because just look at who the Manu haters are, enough said. Nevertheless, this version of Manu is trade bait.

old manu was a big key
HE IS FINSHED NOW though
so trading him when he has some value is HUGE FOR THE SUCCESS OF SPURS

[ducks]

I'd like Diaw on the team but his salary would have to be at least half of what he's getting right now. He's badly overpaid.

And not even Isiah would trade Manu for Diaw Ducks. Quit saying BS to prove your point.
We all know we aren't getting the best out of Manu right now but you must have selective amnesia to plead for such a ridiculous trade.

with this version of manu
he is more overpaid then DIAW

[Kori Ellis]

old manu was a big key
HE IS FINSHED NOW though
so trading him when he has some value is HUGE FOR THE SUCCESS OF SPURS

Finished?

How does 15/4/4 and 46% from the field = finished? That's about his career numbers. He's also averaging less turnovers and fouls than he did last year.

He's not shooting well from 3 right now, but he's not finished.

He's had games of 27, 21 and 26 in the last 10 days or so. Do you only watch the games when he plays poorly?

[rascal]

Just a few games ago, Manu looked like he was getting back into form - being a lot more aggressive and taking it to the rack. The last two games, he hasn't been himself but I think it's WAY too early to think that he's just washed up and a jump shooter now.

I don't understand all this he isn't himself excuses or he isn't healthy excuse. He is an inconsistent player, always has been.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

If people are thinking Manu is finished just by watching today's game then they really aren't giving nearly enough credit to how well Kobe guarded Manu. Normally I wouldn't mind Kobe guarding Manu if he ends up wearing himself out, but the Lakers supporting cast didn't need any late game Kobe heroics today.

[ducks]

Of the big three, the only one I'm willing to trade is Manu. It'd suck but his game has slowly regressed the last couple of seasons imo. I think it'd be best to him while he still has good value.

Manu, Ime and Ian for Rudy, Sergio, Batum, Shavlik and Joel.

I guess ducks is not the only one that thinks so

he has regressed
he has to be limitted with less minutes during the regular season
and spurs have to make sure they play not every other day when facing the lakers to make sure he is MENTALLY there
he admitted last year he was not when spurs played lakers in game one

[ducks]

Finished?

How does 15/4/4 and 46% from the field = finished? That's about his career numbers. He's also averaging less turnovers and fouls than he did last year.

He's not shooting well from 3 right now, but he's not finished.

He's had games of 27, 21 and 26 in the last 10 days or so. Do you only watch the games when he plays poorly?

I watch all spur games I can
which is most of them

[ducks]

If people are thinking Manu is finished just by watching today's game then they really aren't giving nearly enough credit to how well Kobe guarded Manu. Normally I wouldn't mind Kobe guarding Manu if he ends up wearing himself out, but the Lakers supporting cast didn't need any late game Kobe heroics today.

well manu better figure it out because spurs most likely will face the lakers in the playoffs

[Kori Ellis]

I watch all spur games I can
which is most of them

So how does a "finished" player score 20+ points in 3 games in the last 10 days or so?

[rascal]

Manu is not finished. He is a top player a just below all star level type of player. Manu is way over rated on this board and very inconsistent.

[ducks]

So how does a "finished" player score 20+ points in 3 games in the last 10 days or so?
he played better last time he played lakers but they adjusted he did not
WHY?

how does a "great player" make such bonehead plays the last 2 games
his injury can not be used as an excuse because he has scored over 20 points in 3 games the last 10 days or so

[ducks]

the manu spurs say in the playoffs before spur fans will never see
that is why he is finished to me
to be what manu was he needs to attack and he is slower then he was
that is why manu is trying to shot more outside shots
his three point shot is why off
he has no legs
he is tired already

[himat]

No way should Spurs do Manu for Diaw straight up. Maybe Manu for Diaw and Bell.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Manu sucks? This is news to me.

[ducks]

diaw a first round pick and bell
for manu

[ducks]

Manu sucks? This is news to me.

did you watch the game
you have to admit he sucked the last 2 games

[ElNono]

Tony only played half a game against New Jersey. He's probably tired. He also twisted his ankle again early in the season. Plus he didn't drive to the basket enough today and got his shot blocked by Bynum. And he averages more turnovers than Ginobili! He's finished. We should trade him now that his value is still high. It's obvious he's never going to be in NBA Finals MVP level again.

[/sarcasm]
:rolleyes

[himat]

diaw a first round pick and bell
for manu

That wouldn't work because of the contracts. You would have to do something like:

Manu, Vaughn, and Udoka for Bell, Diaw, and a 1st rounder.

I would do that, but I don't think Charlotte would give up their 1st round pick.

[ElNono]

I think it's entirely mental more than physical. It's funny that when he hits his first few shots, his defense improves and he starts driving to the basket more too. Look at both the first Lakers and Indiana games. But it's like if he misses then everything derails.
Whatever it is, he needs to get over it. I hope some big games on the road will help him.

[ducks]

hopefully it is mental but not sure
spurs hit the first threes then went cold

[Capt Bringdown]

It's becoming pretty clear that Manu's best days are behind him. If our title hopes depend on the return of super Manu, then you might as well concede defeat going forward.
A miracle turnaround ain't going to happen, he's had a great career here, but it's time to make the best of what we have left of the Duncan era and look to the future.

But he won't be traded, I think he's Pop's favorite player, just as he is for a lot of fans here. Even when Manu screws up, or can't play consistantly, he gets a free pass because he's such an uber-competitor or some such bollocks.

[ducks]

Tony only played half a game against New Jersey. He's probably tired. He also twisted his ankle again early in the season. Plus he didn't drive to the basket enough today and got his shot blocked by Bynum. And he averages more turnovers than Ginobili! He's finished. We should trade him now that his value is still high. It's obvious he's never going to be in NBA Finals MVP level again.

[/sarcasm]
:rolleyes

drove today passed the ball and the three point shooters missed
did you not watch the game

not his greatest game but he was not the reason they lost

[ElNono]

I don't think he gets a pass. Most of us will tell you he's not playing well. But if fricking Finley gets to stay when he's on a slump, you can bet your ass Ginobili will get the benefit of the doubt.

[ducks]

It's becoming pretty clear that Manu's best days are behind him. If our title hopes depend on the return of super Manu, then you might as well concede defeat going forward.
A miracle turnaround ain't going to happen, he's had a great career here, but it's time to make the best of what we have left of the Duncan era and look to the future.

But he won't be traded, I think he's Pop's favorite player, just as he is for a lot of fans here. Even when Manu screws up, or can't play consistantly, he gets a free pass because he's such an uber-competitor or some such bollocks.

why does he get a free pass but other spur players do not
duncan and other spur players hate to lose also
and trying to do to much out there hurts the team more then helps

[ElNono]

drove today passed the ball and the three point shooters missed
did you not watch the game

not his greatest game but he was not the reason they lost

You don't get it, do you? Do you know what sarcasm means? I love Tony Parker as much as I love every other Spur. And if Tony has a bad game or a bad stretch of games, so be it. That's what being a fan of the TEAM is. You are just flat out hating on one of our players.

[ElNono]

Maybe I should just drop the ball here... At this point I think I'm feeding the troll...

[ducks]

spurs need a big
suggesting they trade a player on the decline while he has value before the trading deadline
should be ok to do

I want him to do well
I WANT THE SPURS TO WIN A TITLE
IF MANU PLAYS LIKE THE OLD MANU IT WOULD INCREASE THE SPURS CHANCES
unless they trade him

[mrspurs]

Manu will never be the same. Thats just the plain truth of it all. This is a pure result of not listening to his elders when they asked him not to play in the Olympics. The adults in here already know this. Sometimes we make choices in our lives, and sometimes we have to live with the results based on those decisions for the rest of our lives. I will never forget the smiling Manu when he was met by the not smiling Pop at the airport. Pop knew like most adults did. Manu made a poor decision by playing after the season ended with an injury. Not only does he have to deal with having to change his game, but its also effected the path of the Spurs. Of course there are always goods mixed in with those bads. But with this roster filled with shooters, we need what Manu used to do. With Manu its not about running out of gas. Its all about not being able to push off.

[2centsworth]

old manu was a big key
HE IS FINSHED NOW though
so trading him when he has some value is HUGE FOR THE SUCCESS OF SPURS

you've been saying Manu sucks since he's been here. Your latest posts are just more hate. this is my last time responding to such nonsense though, because it's such a waste of time.

btw, if Manu played like Old Manu the spurs would walk to a championship.

[MB20]

The adults in here already know this. Sometimes we make choices in our lives, and sometimes we have to live with the results based on those decisions for the rest of our lives.

Do you think Manu regrets his decision of playing in the Olympics ? :lol
You have no clue.

[mrspurs]

Do you think Manu regrets his decision of playing in the Olympics ? :lol
You have no clue.

Without a doubt. Manu regrets playing in this past Olympics. But in a Mans World. You avoid those kind of questions and just continue to push forward. Thats not a clue, thats a fact........Your acting like Manu used to. And thats not Championship wise:king Your no longer worthy of my words. Welcome to my ignore........:wow

[ElNono]

Manu will never be the same. Thats just the plain truth of it all. This is a pure result of not listening to his elders when they asked him not to play in the Olympics.

Let go of the Olympics. He already said 20 million times that 1) He had the OK from the Spurs to play there, 2) He had to have surgery regardless, 3) He doesn't regrets playing there and 4) That his ankle feels fine at this point.

[MB20]

Without a doubt. Manu regrets playing in this past Olympics. But in a Mans World. You avoid those kind of questions and just continue to push forward. Thats not a clue, thats a fact........Your acting like Manu used to. And thats not Championship wise:king Your no longer worthy of my words. Welcome to my ignore........:wow

Whatever...

Go have a beer with ducks :sleep

[Kermit]

Kori, is there any way that you and LJ could trade ducks to a rival forum? Maybe for someone who is averaging less annoyance but with better typing skills? Ducks just isn't the same hater he used to be and of the big three (being the biggest douchebags on this forum), he's the one I would miss the least. Quick, before he has little or no value remaining.

[SpursPreacher]

I think manu still needs more time to get into shape.Give him another 3 weeks and I think he will be the manu we all know and love to watch play.

[mrspurs]

Let go of the Olympics. He already said 20 million times that 1) He had the OK from the Spurs to play there, 2) He had to have surgery regardless, 3) He doesn't regrets playing there and 4) That his ankle feels fine at this point.

Noway, until Manu makes up for betraying his American Teamates will he get the Pass from me. :nope And yeah Im sure Manu's ankle has a brain.:lol Its his ankle that tells him. No dont drive Im not ready yet, just shoot the 3 instead?:lol Pop,Timmy and TP(with the addition of Roger and Hill) have been making up for Manu's Huge Mistake. When Manu returns the favor, then and only then will he redeem himself. Thats how life is with or without the basketball. Dont take it personal, we all make mistakes. I like Manu, but imo right now he's stuck between learning his new game. Many high flyers struggle while adapting to their bodys requests. Finley used to be one of those high flyers. The great ones allow themselves to learn new ways. :king

[ElNono]

Noway, until Manu makes up for betraying his American Teamates will he get the Pass from me. :nope And yeah Im sure Manu's ankle has a brain.:lol Its his ankle that tells him. No dont drive Im not ready yet, just shoot the 3 instead?:lol Pop,Timmy and TP(with the addition of Roger and Hill) have been making up for Manu's Huge Mistake. When Manu returns the favor, then and only then will he redeem himself. Thats how life is with or without the basketball. Dont take it personal, we all make mistakes. I like Manu, but imo right now he's stuck between learning his new game. Many high flyers struggle while adapting to their bodys requests. Finley used to be one of those high flyers. The great ones allow themselves to learn new ways. :king

I think Manu has been changing his game since last year really. Well before any ankle problems. He was just shooting at a higher clip and making them. This year he just isn't. I really don't think the ankle had much to do with it. When your shots are going in nobody cares wether you drive or not.
Some people just have short memory. Go take a look at his best stretch last year, right around the All Star game, and you'll see games against the Timberwolves and Atlanta, where he hit 4 or 5 treys in a row. You won't see many drives. Yet everyone was happy.

[Capt Bringdown]

why does he get a free pass but other spur players do not
duncan and other spur players hate to lose also
and trying to do to much out there hurts the team more then helps

I don't know, ask Pop. Used to be this was Duncan's team...

[Manu-of-steel]

Noway, until Manu makes up for betraying his American Teamates will he get the Pass from me. :nope And yeah Im sure Manu's ankle has a brain.:lol Its his ankle that tells him. No dont drive Im not ready yet, just shoot the 3 instead?:lol Pop,Timmy and TP(with the addition of Roger and Hill) have been making up for Manu's Huge Mistake. When Manu returns the favor, then and only then will he redeem himself. Thats how life is with or without the basketball. Dont take it personal, we all make mistakes. I like Manu, but imo right now he's stuck between learning his new game. Many high flyers struggle while adapting to their bodys requests. Finley used to be one of those high flyers. The great ones allow themselves to learn new ways. :king

manu has a brain but not as small as yours. and he plays not only with his brain, but also with heart, with passion. that's what made manu a fan-favorite. there was no betrayal-kindly look at the meaning of that word in a dictionary if you must. you're just a hater- waiting for a time for manu to have a not-so-good game and bash him.

[Manu-of-steel]

I don't know, ask Pop. Used to be this was Duncan's team...

this is timmy's team. but there are no spurs players who gets a pass from pop. pop treats all players the same, but he deals with them in a way we can only guess. that's what make pop a great coach. i'm thankful you're not the spurs coach.

[JPB]

Tony: 2.5 TOs/game
Manu: 2.0 TOs/game

:rolleyes

Tony : 6.5 ass and 2.5 tos in 35 min - 3.4 tos per 48 min - 2.6 ratio
Manu : 4.40 ass and 2.0 tos in 26 min -3.7 tos per 48 - 2.2 ratio

[Ice009]

If my memory serves me correct, Manu used to be fearless driving to the whole and finishing around the basket.

These days, he's been looking like an Argentinian Michael Finley.

Is he still "getting back into shape after the surgery"? Or is he washed up? Or maybe I am delusional and don't remember correctly the type of player he was?


I don't think the Spurs can win with Manu just standing around chucking up three-pointers. They are at their best when he is driving to the basket and creating plays. It opens up the entire offense.

Someone needs to tell Manu that because he forgot what his game is and what the Spurs need the most. The Spurs don't need anymore jump shooters.

[it's me]

Don’t know….after winning some championships and consistently getting to the playoffs during a long period of time.. the regular season has became a “training season” for most spurs players…. And Ginobily learned a big lesson last season… playing out of his mind early and sucking in playoffs is totally worthless.

We will see most spurs player jumpshooting, it’s just a way to save their bodies for the playoffs…. And yes… Manu is not the same.

[WalterBenitez]

He is improving his skills, not only flopping and that's why he's making some turnovers ... attacking the rim??? let that for playoffs, and put him when TP isn't running the PG.

[SenorSpur]

He's slowly evolved into a 3-ball chucker - regardless of situation, regardless of time on the shot clock. He used to use his aggressive drives to open up his deep perimeter game. Now it's the other way around.

[101A]

These are VERY important games!

Manu should drive with reckless abandon, sacrifice his body - get every win at all costs! Don't worry about anything else, health be damned; the most important thing is wins in January - not health in April!!!!

Last season proved that.

[temujin]

These are VERY important games!

Manu should drive with reckless abandon, sacrifice his body - get every win at all costs! Don't worry about anything else, health be damned; the most important thing is wins in January - not health in April!!!!

Last season proved that.

Absolutely.

Not to mention that a loss in LA is worth 4 losses in the standings, while a win with Clippers is only worth 0.1.

As all these smart trade-Ginobili posters point out, the Spurs record is 28.1-17.

[vander]

I said it over the offseason and I'll say it many more times if necessary

this team will not win another title with manu on the roster

take it to the bank

[it's me]

^

WOW….Are you implying Tony isn’t good enough to win without Manu???????..... crap… we need to trade Tony immediately.


Hahaha this Manu hater is the funniest one.

[vander]

^

WOW….Are you implying Tony isn’t good enough to win without Manu???????..... crap… we need to trade Tony immediately.


Hahaha this Manu hater is the funniest one.

I think you misread, or misunderstood, if anything I'm implying the opposite of that.

[kace]

Tony : 6.5 ass and 2.5 tos in 35 min - 3.4 tos per 48 min - 2.6 ratio
Manu : 4.40 ass and 2.0 tos in 26 min -3.7 tos per 48 - 2.2 ratio

most of tony TOs come when he tries to attack the rim and lost control of the ball in the traffic. you have to accept this: attacking the rim is what makes him a 50 % FG PG.


Manu has a lot of stupid TOs, a lot of careless "out of bounds" and a lot of useless crazy passes.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Trading Manu for anything less than a franchise caliber would be the Spurs' loss.

[DPG21920]

There is no way we can get that for Manu. He is not a franchise player and he is aging. The only type of trade that would make sense is to send him to a team that needs that "one more piece", too bad we seem to be one of those teams. That is why it makes no sense.

Unless there is an absolute homerun deal/steal, he is untradeable in every way imaginable.

[vander]

There is no way we can get that for Manu. He is not a franchise player and he is aging. The only type of trade that would make sense is to send him to a team that needs that "one more piece", too bad we seem to be one of those teams.

so true

however I disagree with the part you added, if we can get a good young player for him, and/or some picks, rather than getting nothing for him when he becomes a FA, that's still a win for our future

[mrspurs]

manu has a brain but not as small as yours. and he plays not only with his brain, but also with heart, with passion. that's what made manu a fan-favorite. there was no betrayal-kindly look at the meaning of that word in a dictionary if you must. you're just a hater- waiting for a time for manu to have a not-so-good game and bash him.

You can call me a hater if you want. Heck you can call me alot more in this site. But I get paid to watch the Spurs play. Do you? Didnt think so. Im a Spurs Fan First Always. When a player has reached the level that isnt helping the Spurs. They can be shipped imo. Been happening since the Hemisphere days. Your one of those Player Pom Pom Cheerleaders. Hopefully your a Man. I expect Player Pom Pom cheerleader fans from Girls.......:lol Welcome to my ignore list.:king

[TMTTRIO]

however I disagree with the part you added, if we can get a good young player for him, and/or some picks, rather than getting nothing for him when he becomes a FA, that's still a win for our future

Why would any team trade their good young and upcoming players for one who's coming off surgery and is probably going to start declining in the next few years. That would make no since. There's a better chance that Manu leaves at the end of his contract for some place else and the Spurs go after some other FA and honestly I would be ok if he didn't come back.

[vander]

Why would any team trade their good young and upcoming players for one who's coming off surgery and is probably going to start declining in the next few years. That would make no since. There's a better chance that Manu leaves at the end of his contract for some place else and the Spurs go after some other FA.

I said good player not great player, I think we could get a good player for him yet, someone a little better and younger than say Mason, but a PF not a guard.

[senorglory]

Trading Manu for anything less than a franchise caliber would be the Spurs' loss.

We'd feel like Dallas fans do about Harris' performance this year.

[colargol]

I wouldn't trade Manu four three Diaws.

i wouldn't trade manu for Diaw......ok even if...........
For three Diaw.... sorry......... but make it done!!!!!

remember i'm just a french homer:king

[Nikos]

If anything is wrong with Manu it's his conditioning. Its really annoying to see the Spurs main offensive option (Option 1C in Manu), play so few minutes these past few seasons. I think its a huge reason the Spurs underachieve in the regular season. Yeah Pop is trying to play it safe, but Manu not being able to play 33-34mpg+ hurts the team in the win column. It forces Pop to play inferior lineups for longer stretches in the game.

This team is still more talented then the early 00's Spur teams before Drob retired. And yet the team slacks off in the regular season or for whatever reason underachieves. It seems like in years past they won way more meaningful regular season games or at least appeared stronger in the regular season.

You mean to tell me Boston's core is really any better than the Spurs? Even assuming KG and Duncan are a wash -- Parker and Ginobili are no worse then Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. The only difference is they play more minutes for their respective team. Their efficiency and productivity aren't even as good as Parker and Manu's but they play 6-9 more mpg and even with the drop in efficiency of their numbers, they are still improvements over most of their subs. In other words even if Manu's production dropped heavily with increase minutes -- he still would be a well above average force on the floor over the course of the season.

I don't understand why Manu isn't capable of playing more -- but I think if he was technically able to play more, the team would be a superior regular season and team and might even feel better about themselves going into the playoffs.

The regular season tends to be more of a nuissance then anything these days, cause the Spurs clearly just need some luck and health going into the playoffs when its all said and done. But it would be really nice for once if the Spurs had a 60+ regular season and a chance at home court throughout most of the playoffs. Like the old days.....

[honestfool84]

truth hurt?

he played well then he has another setup after his injury

he is not above getting called out
he also does not trust hill on the second unit
hill does not turn the ball over

I would trade manu for diaw

i am glad you are not the GM for the spurs.

[ElNono]

I don't understand why Manu isn't capable of playing more

He is. He has played well over 30+ mpg for the national team, and also played well over 30+ mpg during playoff runs. He actually voiced he wanted to play 30+ mpg this season already. It's not Manu that doesn't want to or can't, it's Pop that's regulating the minutes.

[Manu-of-steel]

I said good player not great player, I think we could get a good player for him yet, someone a little better and younger than say Mason, but a PF not a guard.

it's very easy to say trade manu. but who is that player who could match manu's value for our team?

[Manu-of-steel]

You can call me a hater if you want. Heck you can call me alot more in this site. But I get paid to watch the Spurs play. Do you? Didnt think so. Im a Spurs Fan First Always. When a player has reached the level that isnt helping the Spurs. They can be shipped imo. Been happening since the Hemisphere days. Your one of those Player Pom Pom Cheerleaders. Hopefully your a Man. I expect Player Pom Pom cheerleader fans from Girls.......:lol Welcome to my ignore list.:king

you're getting paid to watch the spurs play?LOL. i bet the spurs won't waste a cent to pay someone like you.. i'm not being paid for this, i watch the spurs because of how they play. i love every spurs player. you are just actually a spurs-hater, and a person with grandiose delusion.

[anakha]

You can call me a hater if you want. Heck you can call me alot more in this site. But I get paid to watch the Spurs play. Do you? Didnt think so. Im a Spurs Fan First Always. When a player has reached the level that isnt helping the Spurs. They can be shipped imo. Been happening since the Hemisphere days. Your one of those Player Pom Pom Cheerleaders. Hopefully your a Man. I expect Player Pom Pom cheerleader fans from Girls.......:lol Welcome to my ignore list.:king

Playbaby post.

[JustSomeJoe]

Laker fan here.

Can't believe some of y'all want to trade Manu for Diaw. Are you serious? I mean, I understand thinking about trading one of your big 3 when the coals are still warm... the team needs to make some moves w/ little value to trade. But Manu for Diaw?

Some of y'all have no clue of the value your players bring. MANU PUT YOU OVER THE TOP! That's right... it wasn't Robinson, wasn't Duncan, wasn't Bruce or Tony. MANU PUT YOU OVER THE TOP!

Manu brought the toughness, grit, and scrappiness S.A. needed to finally get over the Lakers hump. You see Lakers last year in the finals? You remember S.A. being sent home w/ their tails between their legs after being swept in the playoffs by L.A. pre-Manu even though they had plenty o' talent? A guy like Manu is what changes those outcomes.

Doesn't mean you don't trade him... from the outside lookin' in, looks like S.A. has to make some moves. But, if you're going to do it, you better damned well get back what you're losing, or it's a wasted effort (best o' luck with that... finding a tough, gritty, scrappy player who's a nightmare from the wing when he's on).

Manu for Diaw? Seriously?

[YODA]

What I can handle.. Manu in a shooting slump. missing jumpers and 3's and turnovers.
What I cant handle is when he shoots 50-70% of his shots as 3 pointers, with most of the other shots 2 point jump shots. He..im my opinions is not taking it to the room like he use to . I know he is still recovering, but I dont think or worry that he wont be able to play like last year.

Were suppose to be an inside ourside shooting team, but from what ive seen of late, its basically just a shooting team period. The only players driving the lane at all are TP and TD and TP tends to back off when he is getting beat up.

Fin, Mas? Nothing

Manu,,,Here and there

I thinks it obvious were not attacking the rim. Look at the free throw attempts from the la game. I dont have in front of me, but i think its like 2 to 1 in shot attempts. meaning they driving the lane and were settleing for jumpers. btw alot were open shots we missed.

I kinda think the Spurs think all is well and will come togehter on this trip. Well..its one thing to think it and quite another to actually do it.

The cure??
few things come to mind...
I commend Bonner and his efforts, but he needs to be coming off the bench, but we really have no options at the moment. Oberto been benched. Tomas get play big min and no trades are in the works...MY solutions? IF oberto is healthy, Id rather have him in there during the playoffs. I know he can handle the pressure. his IQ is good.

drive and kick......drive and kick drive and shoot.....simple simple simple

1. Drive the lane more
2. get more foul shots.
3. get more players involed
4. Maybe take a few less 3's
5. work on that Team D

[NewJerSpur]

[QUOTE=JustSomeJoe;3058309]Laker fan here.

Can't believe some of y'all want to trade Manu for Diaw. Are you serious? I mean, I understand thinking about trading one of your big 3 when the coals are still warm... the team needs to make some moves w/ little value to trade. But Manu for Diaw?

Some of y'all have no clue of the value your players bring. MANU PUT YOU OVER THE TOP! That's right... it wasn't Robinson, wasn't Duncan, wasn't Bruce or Tony. MANU PUT YOU OVER THE TOP!

Manu brought the toughness, grit, and scrappiness S.A. needed to finally get over the Lakers hump. QUOTE]

Actually, in '03 it was Kevin Willis. Yeah, that's right, KEVIN WILLIS. Remember that thunderous, one-handed, rebound dunk he sent down over Shaq in that route at Staples when the Spurs sent the Lakers home [tearfully] packing? That DUNK put them over the top, and the rest is history.....:lol of course I'm not serious, but that was some funny stuff, you've got to admit.

[JustSomeJoe]

[quote=JustSomeJoe;3058309]Laker fan here.

Can't believe some of y'all want to trade Manu for Diaw. Are you serious? I mean, I understand thinking about trading one of your big 3 when the coals are still warm... the team needs to make some moves w/ little value to trade. But Manu for Diaw?

Some of y'all have no clue of the value your players bring. MANU PUT YOU OVER THE TOP! That's right... it wasn't Robinson, wasn't Duncan, wasn't Bruce or Tony. MANU PUT YOU OVER THE TOP!

Manu brought the toughness, grit, and scrappiness S.A. needed to finally get over the Lakers hump. QUOTE]

Actually, in '03 it was Kevin Willis. Yeah, that's right, KEVIN WILLIS. Remember that thunderous, one-handed, rebound dunk he sent down over Shaq in that route at Staples when the Spurs sent the Lakers home [tearfully] packing? That DUNK put them over the top, and the rest is history.....:lol of course I'm not serious, but that was some funny stuff, you've got to admit.

Willis was an animal... an A N I M A L! :lol

Seriously, though... don't remember when it was, but the first time I saw Manu play and impact the game with his scrappiness, I though "ah, shit... that might be it."

Guys like that are few and far between. It's the only thing missing from the current Laker squad, IMO. Ariza is a helluva player with hustle written on his forehead, but I'm not sure he's got enough dirty in 'em to fully fill that role.

I respect the hell out'a Manu (as I do a number of other Spurs players), but he can be a dirty little grabbin', clawin', scratchin', cheap shottin' sob out on the court... EXACTLY the kind a player you want on your side going into battle.

[Ghazi]

Spurs need a 3, Mavs need a 2. Manu for J-Ho. :) :) lol

[mrspurs]

If anything is wrong with Manu it's his conditioning. Its really annoying to see the Spurs main offensive option (Option 1C in Manu), play so few minutes these past few seasons. I think its a huge reason the Spurs underachieve in the regular season. Yeah Pop is trying to play it safe, but Manu not being able to play 33-34mpg+ hurts the team in the win column. It forces Pop to play inferior lineups for longer stretches in the game.

This team is still more talented then the early 00's Spur teams before Drob retired. And yet the team slacks off in the regular season or for whatever reason underachieves. It seems like in years past they won way more meaningful regular season games or at least appeared stronger in the regular season.

You mean to tell me Boston's core is really any better than the Spurs? Even assuming KG and Duncan are a wash -- Parker and Ginobili are no worse then Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. The only difference is they play more minutes for their respective team. Their efficiency and productivity aren't even as good as Parker and Manu's but they play 6-9 more mpg and even with the drop in efficiency of their numbers, they are still improvements over most of their subs. In other words even if Manu's production dropped heavily with increase minutes -- he still would be a well above average force on the floor over the course of the season.

I don't understand why Manu isn't capable of playing more -- but I think if he was technically able to play more, the team would be a superior regular season and team and might even feel better about themselves going into the playoffs.

The regular season tends to be more of a nuissance then anything these days, cause the Spurs clearly just need some luck and health going into the playoffs when its all said and done. But it would be really nice for once if the Spurs had a 60+ regular season and a chance at home court throughout most of the playoffs. Like the old days.....

Maybe in the middle of last season people could say Manu is better then Paul. But since then, Manu isnt even close to Paul. Id trade Manu for Paul in a heartbeat. And so would the Spurs FO. The reason Boston won is because of Paul. Paul is to Boston what Kobe is to the Lakers and what Lebron is to the Cavs. Manu cant take over a game. And his ankle will never let him again. Thats what this team lacks. A player who can take over a game. If we dont play like a team. If we dont hit our 3s. We dont win it all. And without that player who can do what Manu used to do. We're just a shooting team. And so is Manu.

[Budkin]

The guy is still a Spurs Hero in my book. As long as he is back in form by the playoffs we'll be fine. Way too early to start bellyaching about it.

[diego]

If anything is wrong with Manu it's his conditioning. Its really annoying to see the Spurs main offensive option (Option 1C in Manu), play so few minutes these past few seasons. I think its a huge reason the Spurs underachieve in the regular season. Yeah Pop is trying to play it safe, but Manu not being able to play 33-34mpg+ hurts the team in the win column. It forces Pop to play inferior lineups for longer stretches in the game.

This team is still more talented then the early 00's Spur teams before Drob retired. And yet the team slacks off in the regular season or for whatever reason underachieves. It seems like in years past they won way more meaningful regular season games or at least appeared stronger in the regular season.

You mean to tell me Boston's core is really any better than the Spurs? Even assuming KG and Duncan are a wash -- Parker and Ginobili are no worse then Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. The only difference is they play more minutes for their respective team. Their efficiency and productivity aren't even as good as Parker and Manu's but they play 6-9 more mpg and even with the drop in efficiency of their numbers, they are still improvements over most of their subs. In other words even if Manu's production dropped heavily with increase minutes -- he still would be a well above average force on the floor over the course of the season.

I don't understand why Manu isn't capable of playing more -- but I think if he was technically able to play more, the team would be a superior regular season and team and might even feel better about themselves going into the playoffs.

The regular season tends to be more of a nuissance then anything these days, cause the Spurs clearly just need some luck and health going into the playoffs when its all said and done. But it would be really nice for once if the Spurs had a 60+ regular season and a chance at home court throughout most of the playoffs. Like the old days.....

no doubt manu's main weakness is durability/stamina. but tp and td also play low minutes compared to most stars, and if you look at boston this year kg and pierce are playing much less.

the difference with boston is they have a deeper bench and a good front court (perking, davis and powe >> thomas, oberto and bonner). their 4th best player is better than our 4th best. we only have a better best player, a better big 3 and a better coach.
--

manu is getting more and more dependent on 3 pt shooting to open his driving lanes. against the lakers, parker as well depends on the 3 pt shooters to get in the paint. as long as our penetration is dependent on the accuracy of the 3 pt shooters, we will be a live by the 3 die by the 3 team. even duncan needs those 3 pt shooters to space the floor for him. jackson knows this and that is why finley, bonner, mason, bowen and manu must connect on their 3s for us to beat the lakers.

[1Parker1]

:lol The problem is NOT Manu on this team. I have no doubt come playoff time, he's going to be a completely different person if he's even just 85% healthy.

Problem on this team is Bonner, Oberto, and Thomas are your options in the middle along with TD. That's not going to get it done in a Western Conference stacked with quality big men; Shaq, Bynum, Milsap/Boozer, Kmart/Nene, Chandler/West, etc. :pctoss

[vander]

:lol The problem is NOT Manu on this team. I have no doubt come playoff time, he's going to be a completely different person if he's even just 85% healthy.

Problem on this team is Bonner, Oberto, and Thomas are your options in the middle along with TD. That's not going to get it done in a Western Conference stacked with quality big men; Shaq, Bynum, Milsap/Boozer, Kmart/Nene, Chandler/West, etc. :pctoss

um, who were our big guys last year when Manu let us down? and the year before when we won it all? yet you are trying to say our problem is these role players whoe are somwhere between 5th - 11th down the depth chart, one of whom is leading the team in +/-

no, its our big 3 that is fading, mainly TD and Manu, TP is still in his prime but he was always the lesser of the 3 IMO.
and while TD brings so much more to the game than points and rebounds, probably the greatest intangibles in the history of Basketball, Manu is nothing more than an overpriced shooter if he can't get to the hoop like he used to. and his crazy assists are now becoming crazy turnovers, he no longer has the freakish athleticism that made his game work.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I've got a new v-Bookie idea... here it goes:

How many of the fucking retards in this thread are going to be back on Manu's nuts when he has another great game?

a) 1
b) 2
c) 3
d) Every one except ducks and rascal

You people are fucking laughable! not one ounce of backbone. A little trouble comes your way and you'd trade your fucking grandmother. When Manu is back to his old self, your going to be on an all crow diet for a long time motherfuckers.

[vander]

I've got a new v-Bookie idea... here it goes:

How many of the fucking retards in this thread are going to be back on Manu's nuts when he has another great game?

a) 1
b) 2
c) 3
d) Every one except ducks and rascal

You people are fucking laughable! not one ounce of backbone. A little trouble comes your way and you'd trade your fucking grandmother. When Manu is back to his old self, your going to be on an all crow diet for a long time motherfuckers.

and the cycle continues: observant and objective fan points out Manu's erosion of ability, Manu homer attacks fan with insults because he cannot dispute the actual issue
:lol

[Xylus]

Manu for Diaw. :lmao

That's a good one.

[urunobili]

I've got a new v-Bookie idea... here it goes:

How many of the fucking retards in this thread are going to be back on Manu's nuts when he has another great game?

a) 1
b) 2
c) 3
d) Every one except ducks and rascal

You people are fucking laughable! not one ounce of backbone. A little trouble comes your way and you'd trade your fucking grandmother. When Manu is back to his old self, your going to be on an all crow diet for a long time motherfuckers.

rascal, ducks AND vander you should have pointed out... the case in the latter is even worse... he JUST posts to express hate on him... bah' i also saw some TP love somewhere... :stirpot:

[MaNuMaNiAc]

and the cycle continues: observant and objective fan points out Manu's erosion of ability, Manu homer attacks fan with insults because he cannot dispute the actual issue
:lol

yeah, that's what you are, an observant and objective fan :lmao Observantly and objectively clamoring for Manu's departure for years now. You are not fooling anyone

[sonic21]

Manu for Diaw. :lmao

That's a good one.

it's better than Manu+fillers for Amare :stirpot:

[Xylus]

it's better than Manu+fillers for Amare :stirpot:

I'd do a Manu+fillers for Amare trade any fucking day of the week.

As for Diaw, he's one of the most talented players in the whole league, but he has about .0005 ounces of heart in him. Ducks is an idiot for suggesting such a trade.

[Xylus]

Scratch that, I would not trade Amare Stoudemire to the Spurs to play next to Duncan.

What the hell am I thinking?

[vander]

yeah, that's what you are, an observant and objective fan :lmao Obsercantly and objectively clamoring for Manu's departure for years now. You are not fooling anyone

hmm, you make an interesting case for manu, some valid points there, I see now how he can still help us win a title is worth keeping







:lmao:rollin

[vander]

rascal, ducks AND vander you should have pointed out... the case in the latter is even worse... he JUST posts to express hate on him... bah' i also saw some TP love somewhere... :stirpot:

sweet, I have reputation :king

[NFGIII]

Scratch that, I would not trade Amare Stoudemire to the Spurs to play next to Duncan.

What the hell am I thinking?


I don't know but I like it!


Could you imagine Amare roaming the paint next to TD? Maybe then Pop could get some clorex and wash his brain and then reprogram it the Spurs way.

[Slippy]

The problem Manu faces these days is that he relies on his 3-point shot to get his game going. Hard to fault the guy when you coming back from a long lay-off through foot surgery while trying to get his form and confidence back.

What i hope he does for now is get back to basics . Take what the offense give or as Pop put it the other night let the offense come to him. Feed off guys like Tony and Tim to get his game going. It would be nice to see POP keep one of the other big 2 more often on the court while playing the 2nd unit so Manu's not forced to make things happen on his own.

[Athenea]

um, who were our big guys last year when Manu let us down? and the year before when we won it all? yet you are trying to say our problem is these role players whoe are somwhere between 5th - 11th down the depth chart, one of whom is leading the team in +/-

no, its our big 3 that is fading, mainly TD and Manu, TP is still in his prime but he was always the lesser of the 3 IMO.
and while TD brings so much more to the game than points and rebounds, probably the greatest intangibles in the history of Basketball, Manu is nothing more than an overpriced shooter if he can't get to the hoop like he used to. and his crazy assists are now becoming crazy turnovers, he no longer has the freakish athleticism that made his game work.

So here is the deal according to u, retard:
When the Spurs win it's WE WON and when they lose it's MANU LET US DOWN.
Vander u r as much of a hater as Ducks is. Try to type some day without TP's balls in front of ur face. They are messing with ur vision.

[BradLohaus]

Manu's 3 point % by year:

02-03 .345
03-04 .359
04-05 .376
05-06 .382
06-07 .396
07-08 .401
09-09 .347

He improved every single year, but this year he has regressed all the way back to his rookie year... when I cringed every time he shot a 3. Thing is, he didn't shoot that many 3's when he first got here, now he shoots a bunch.

So if he can't get back to being a ~40% 3 point shooter then he has to become rookie Manu again and take it to the basket with reckless abandon. If he can't do either of those things then he has to shoot fewer 3s and have a decreased role on the court, period, end of story.

[vander]

manu provin me right, game after game

:king

[mogrovejo]

Anyways, Manu is driving into the paint as much as he was last season. He's finishing even better than he was last season. The only thing wrong with his offense is that he's not hitting his jumpers at a high enough rate -- specifically his three-pointers.

He's not dunking, he might have a few more "interesting" turnovers per minute but Ginobili's general play offensively is the same as last season.

That's true. But those are the "good news".

The scary part for Spurs fans is that the change on his shot-selection has already started last season, or, more accurately, 2 seasons ago - that's why you can say he's driving into the paint as much as he was last season:

Emanuel Ginobili (% of jump-shots/ % of inside shots)

02/03 60% 40%
03/04 61% 39%
04/05 56% 44%
05/06 60% 40%
06/07 66% 34%
07/08 74% 26%
08/09 73% 27%

He has stopped the decline this season, but his shot-selection is now way more jump-shooting oriented than 3 years ago.

[Man In Black]

What amazes me is why some of you think Ducks is an expert in the game of basketball?

He regurgitates what others write and then slants it to fit his newest I HATE MANU post tied to his TONY IS GREAT posts.

He's an idiot.

IF he wants to battle me, I will slay him with the facts because I know, there isn't a player that competes at a higher level than Ginobili. No player can turn it on every game, not one. Even Jordan missed game winners.

So I ask again...what makes Ducks a basketball expert? He ain't one and for all of his analysis, does anyone notice how some of his post are diametrically opposed?

[mrspurs]

manu provin me right, game after game

:king

True, but there are still alot of games to be played.

[mrspurs]

That's true. But those are the "good news".

The scary part for Spurs fans is that the change on his shot-selection has already started last season, or, more accurately, 2 seasons ago - that's why you can say he's driving into the paint as much as he was last season:

Emanuel Ginobili (% of jump-shots/ % of inside shots)

02/03 60% 40%
03/04 61% 39%
04/05 56% 44%
05/06 60% 40%
06/07 66% 34%
07/08 74% 26%
08/09 73% 27%

He has stopped the decline this season, but his shot-selection is now way more jump-shooting oriented than 3 years ago.

Anyone whos been watching the games could see this. But these numbers are pretty good. This proves he's nothing more then a jump shooter.

[Man In Black]

Everyone here knows is that Manu has been nudged nee' ORDERED to lay off the attacks until playoff time to prevent him from getting mugged daily by the other teams in the L. Even though he does that, he'll still find a way to add more to his El Contusion moniker.

So in that aspect, it's by design. But come playoff time, he gets free reign. That's the deal her folks. Health. If the team is healthy, they have just as good a chance as the other favorites. FACT!

[it's me]

manu provin me right, game after game

:king



:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao




:hat

[Manu-of-steel]

the silence of manu haters is deafening. manu woke up from his mini-slump, woe to the haters.

[Hemotivo]

What amazes me is why some of you think Ducks is an expert in the game of basketball?

He regurgitates what others write and then slants it to fit his newest I HATE MANU post tied to his TONY IS GREAT posts.

He's an idiot.


:reading

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I've got a new v-Bookie idea... here it goes:

How many of the fucking retards in this thread are going to be back on Manu's nuts when he has another great game?

a) 1
b) 2
c) 3
d) Every one except ducks and rascal

You people are fucking laughable! not one ounce of backbone. A little trouble comes your way and you'd trade your fucking grandmother. When Manu is back to his old self, your going to be on an all crow diet for a long time motherfuckers.

ahem...

[m33p0]

ahem...
:lol

[urunobili]

manu provin me right, game after game

:king

:owned:

[rascal]

What Silence.

Trade manu now after these couple of good games. He goes hot and cold often and is not consistent enough to be an all star caliber player.

[DAF86]

What Silence.

Trade manu now after these couple of good games. He goes hot and cold often and is not consistent enough to be an all star caliber player.

His scoring may go off and on often but 99% of the times he finds a way to have a positive imprint on a basketball game.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

What Silence.

Trade manu now after these couple of good games. He goes hot and cold often and is not consistent enough to be an all star caliber player.

ahem...


I've got a new v-Bookie idea... here it goes:

How many of the fucking retards in this thread are going to be back on Manu's nuts when he has another great game?

a) 1
b) 2
c) 3
d) Every one except ducks and rascal

You people are fucking laughable! not one ounce of backbone. A little trouble comes your way and you'd trade your fucking grandmother. When Manu is back to his old self, your going to be on an all crow diet for a long time motherfuckers.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

At least rascal is consistent in his hating

[roycrikside]

What Silence.

Trade manu now after these couple of good games. He goes hot and cold often and is not consistent enough to be an all star caliber player.

Manu, having a down year: 11th in NBA with a 23.03 PER

Tony having a career year: 16th in NBA with a 22.06 PER (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics)

Yeah, Manu is inconsistent alright, sometimes he's good, other times he's awesome.

[vander]

:owned:

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao




:hat
yep, a couple high scoring games against poor Defenses and it's the 05 manu again.
I thought you guys could be a little more objective and reasonable that that, wait, no actually I didn't :lol
apparently every time Manu puts up 25+ points then I am "owned" :lol ok then, but when he fails to do anything against the good defenses we will face in the playoffs, and it turns out that I was right all along, please do me a favor and never post here again


:toast

[it's me]

yep, a couple high scoring games against poor Defenses and it's the 05 manu again.
I thought you guys could be a little more objective and reasonable that that, wait, no actually I didn't :lol
apparently every time Manu puts up 25+ points then I am "owned" :lol ok then, but when he fails to do anything against the good defenses we will face in the playoffs, and it turns out that I was right all along, please do me a favor and never post here again


:toast

Post after post:toast

[rascal]

At least rascal is consistent in his hating

Not hating on anything. Manu is not an all star quality player. Only one gift all star apprearance where his stats were not even as good as others who did not make the team that year and no other all star appearances and he is now considered an all star player here. A true all star consistently will make the all star team and thats not Manu.

He is over hyped here because this is a Spurs board.


He does not put up the stats, does not play the minutes that the true stars play. He is a solid 2nd level player and if the spurs can get some real frontline star talent for him now they should let him go. With mason and Hill they are still solid at the 2 guard spot.

The Spurs will need the luck of injuries to the lakers if they have any chance to win this year.

[DAF86]

Not hating on anything. Manu is not an all star quality player. Only one gift all star apprearance where his stats were not even as good as others who did not make the team that year and no other all star appearances and he is now considered an all star player here. A true all star consistently will make the all star team and thats not Manu.

He is over hyped here because this is a Spurs board.


He does not put up the stats, does not play the minutes that the true stars play. He is a solid 2nd level player and if the spurs can get some real frontline star talent for him now they should let him go. With mason and Hill they are still solid at the 2 guard spot.

The Spurs will need the luck of injuries to the lakers if they have any chance to win this year.

All stars games are overrated, stats too.

How do you explain that IYO he isn't an all-star, doesn't have the stats and yet when he's done will get to the Hall of fame.

[2centsworth]

Not hating on anything. Manu is not an all star quality player. Only one gift all star apprearance where his stats were not even as good as others who did not make the team that year and no other all star appearances and he is now considered an all star player here. A true all star consistently will make the all star team and thats not Manu.

He is over hyped here because this is a Spurs board.


He does not put up the stats, does not play the minutes that the true stars play. He is a solid 2nd level player and if the spurs can get some real frontline star talent for him now they should let him go. With mason and Hill they are still solid at the 2 guard spot.

The Spurs will need the luck of injuries to the lakers if they have any chance to win this year.


you're right up there with the parker haters.

2nd level player:lmao not many players can reach the heights that Manu can reach, especailly in 4th quarters. Now is he inconsistent, yes, but mainly because of injury.

[DAF86]

If we go by stats Bowen shouldn't deserve to be called a NBA player, and yet he was/is one of the main players in a three times championship team.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

All stars games are overrated, stats too.

How do you explain that IYO he isn't an all-star, doesn't have the stats and yet when he's done will get to the Hall of fame.

:lol all star games measure the player.. I'd prefer Manu not even pay attention to his stats if it means having to play well and put up gawdy numbers in the first half of the long ass season.

I'm sure Manu envy the David Wests of the league.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

yep, a couple high scoring games against poor Defenses and it's the 05 manu again.
I thought you guys could be a little more objective and reasonable that that, wait, no actually I didn't :lol
apparently every time Manu puts up 25+ points then I am "owned" :lol ok then, but when he fails to do anything against the good defenses we will face in the playoffs, and it turns out that I was right all along, please do me a favor and never post here again


:toast
:lol
Keep moving those cones, man, last week you weren't convinced because it was merely the Suns and you were doubtful Manu would put up a good game afterwards because of that. You also said that Manu sucked because he was bailed out by questionable referee ticky tack fouls. A week prior to THAT, you said something basically akin Manu is slow and will never get to the rack, so he has to rely on his jumper being on.
Three good games later, making about what, 35 out of 36 FT's? All due to Ref's , now it's the teams with shitty defense.

[vander]

:lol
Keep moving those cones, man, last week you weren't convinced because it was merely the Suns and you were doubtful Manu would put up a good game afterwards because of that. You also said that Manu sucked because he was bailed out by questionable referee ticky tack fouls. A week prior to THAT, you said something basically akin Manu is slow and will never get to the rack, so he has to rely on his jumper being on.
Three good games later, making about what, 35 out of 36 FT's? All due to Ref's , now it's the teams with shitty defense.

what is golden state's defense ranked?

but that's hardly the point, I'm talking about the big picture, Manu's ability to help us win the title this year and future years. you guys are living and dieing with each little game. thinking that one good week means everything, but it doesn't; Manu putting up 30 in an OT game against the worst D in the league means nothing, even if Manu were to put up 30 against a better D without OT, it doesn't change who he is and what his abilities and limitations are. scrubs all through the league can do these things from time to time during the regular season.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

what is golden state's defense ranked?

but that's hardly the point, I'm talking about the big picture, Manu's ability to help us win the title this year and future years. you guys are living and dieing with each little game. thinking that one good week means everything, but it doesn't; Manu putting up 30 in an OT game against the worst D in the league means nothing, even if Manu were to put up 30 against a better D without OT, it doesn't change who he is and what his abilities and limitations are. scrubs all through the league can do these things from time to time during the regular season.

:lol Now you're insinuating Manu is a scrub? Yeah, you're not a hater at all. Why don't you do everyone a favor and just come out with it. You don't like the dude for personal reasons, period.

The "I'm an unbiased Spurs fan" bullshit isn't going to cut it vander, I've been reading your bullshit takes about Manu for over a year now. This isn't a recent development. Its just that Manu has been off this season, and your sorry ass now feels justified.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

God, this thread really looks retarded since the Phoenix game.


If your team's in a rut
If a star player on the team looks washed up
A game against the Suns can solve your problems.

[Indazone]

Now this is T-Mac syndrome. Settling for outside jumpers when you could be taking it to the rack.

[vander]

:lol Now you're insinuating Manu is a scrub? Yeah, you're not a hater at all. Why don't you do everyone a favor and just come out with it. You don't like the dude for personal reasons, period.

The "I'm an unbiased Spurs fan" bullshit isn't going to cut it vander, I've been reading your bullshit takes about Manu for over a year now. This isn't a recent development. Its just that Manu has been off this season, and your sorry ass now feels justified.

he's no scrub, but he's no game changer anymore either, he's just a little better than Mason IMO, and Mason has gotten worse and worse since Manu came back, Manu leaving would allow Mason to flourish again, a few more minutes to Mason, Hill, Fin, and Bowen and we hardly miss Manu in the backcourt, while potentially upgrading our frontcourt for many years.
unless you think KT and Fabs:shootme are the present and Mahimni and Splitter are the future :vomit:

[mystargtr34]

he's no scrub, but he's no game changer anymore either, he's just a little better than Mason IMO, and Mason has gotten worse and worse since Manu came back, Manu leaving would allow Mason to flourish again, a few more minutes to Mason, Hill, Fin, and Bowen and we hardly miss Manu in the backcourt, while potentially upgrading our frontcourt for many years.
unless you think KT and Fabs:shootme are the present and Mahimni and Splitter are the future :vomit:

You do realise Manu is giving the Spurs 15.8 PPG, 4.6 RPG and 3.4 APG in 26.9 Minutes, coming back from ankle surgery. The only numbers he is really down on is his 3PT%.

Your not a complete bag of douche, but your only just a little better than ducks.

[vander]

You do realise Manu is giving the Spurs 15.8 PPG, 4.6 RPG and 3.4 APG in 26.9 Minutes, coming back from ankle surgery. The only numbers he is really down on is his 3PT%.

Your not a complete bag of douche, but your only just a little better than ducks.

:lol that was actually kinda funny

but back when Mason was the man, he was giving us 15/4/2.5, and I think he would only improve on that as he meshes with this team through the course of the season.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

You do realise Manu is giving the Spurs 15.8 PPG, 4.6 RPG and 3.4 APG in 26.9 Minutes, coming back from ankle surgery. The only numbers he is really down on is his 3PT%.

Your not a complete bag of douche, but your only just a little better than ducks.

No he's worse than ducks. He lies to himself about this "optimal trade B.S." which doesn't even make sense because you can imagine all these scenarios without regarding the risk to improve our front court. This guy, as a fan, doesn't realize that no matter how much you plan, and no matter how conservative you are in making sure you have the best chances to win a 'ship, a championship is never guaranteed.

It's like this weird state of denial where he can't outright say he hates Manu and that he wishes he's washed up for good. Instead he keeps changing his story. The "need" for a big man is just expedient at the moment. This guy has been hating on Manu even before our front court problems were glaring and before the Splitter debacle. The front court trade B.S. is just a convenient front for him.
I'd believe his sincerity more if he wouldn't keep changing his story every five minutes.

Now all of a sudden Manu is holding Roger Mason back :lol

That's a new one!