Would trading Ginobili help the spurs?

[Austin_Toros]

Many people are calling for a trade involving Ginobili. I wouldn't hesitate to trade him if its for the right price.
Getting a big man wouldn't be bad; Kaman and Dalembert are possibilities (salaries should be close).

But we musn't forget that Manu has been pivotal in recent times and was a steal in the draft.

The main question is: would trading him help or hurt us?

http://i40.tinypic.com/dowgmf.jpg

:flag:

[timvp]

No.

[L.I.T]

What he said. ^

[Yorae]

http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/penguin-kill.jpg

And this is what would happen to the next person that would ask.

[mogrovejo]

Highly improbable; I think you'll get some quality offers but nothing close to equal short-term talent.

[024]

only if the spurs trade for dwyane wade. trading ginobili for someone like kaman reduces the spurs' offensive power by A LOT. duncan alone takes up all of the touches in the post when he's in the game. why would kaman get the ball over a hall of fame PF? kaman's averages will drop like a rock, leaving the spurs with a big hole in points scored.

[raspsa]

Maybe if we can get Brandon Roy in exchange..

[Tully365]

The answer depends entirely on who the Spurs would get in return for Ginobili.

[rayray2k8]

I am getting sick of all these trade Ginobili threads.
Just stfu and wait till the playoffs.
Stay off the caffeine and just chill....
I can't wait to see that stupid "not even Ditka could have stop manu"
thread to come out and these fucktards that want ginobili out, come
back on the bandwagon, to say "I knew we'd be okay".
:rolleyes

[Austin_Toros]

spurs fans love manu

but many would be happy to see him go...

[kace]

spurs fans love manu

but many would be happy to see him go...


well, if a person should be traded every time some spurs fans want it, there would be no one remaining of the actual roster, including Tim, Pop, Holt and the Coyote.

[Manufan909]

spurs fans love manu

but many would be happy to see him go...

Yep, every single COT member. SO that'd be you, sequ, ducks, and who else? I'd consider 3 a few, not many. Just saying...

[Chieflion]

It really depends on who we get.

[mountainballer]

The answer depends entirely on who the Spurs would get in return for Ginobili.

not that I wanted it, but Elton Brand is reportedly on the block.
Manu+Fab for Brand would work.
Brand looked bad this season, nonetheless this is something to at least think about, if it's on the table. he doesn't fit with the Sixers game, but on a team like the Spurs his abilities should be a better fit.
and I can see that the Sixers are interested in a player like Manu, also because of the contract, that expires in 2010.
however. I will be happy if this doesn't materialize and we get a somehow decent big man via another trade.
(so or so, without frontcourt help we could have 2 Manu's and we still wouldn't beat the Lakers)

[Manufan909]

not that I wanted it, but Elton Brand is reportedly on the block.
Manu+Fab for Brand would work.
Brand looked bad this season, nonetheless this is something to at least think about, if it's on the table. he doesn't fit with the Sixers game, but on a team like the Spurs his abilities should be a better fit.
and I can see that the Sixers are interested in a player like Manu, also because of the contract, that expires in 2010.
however. I will be happy if this doesn't materialize and we get a somehow decent big man via another trade.
(so or so, without frontcourt help we could have 2 Manu's and we still wouldn't beat the Lakers)

With 2 Manu's Pop could permamently bench Fin, and start and bring Manu off the bench at the same time. The odds of both Manu's sucking would be very low, but both playing moderate to great, the team would be unstoppable. But damn there'd be a hitload of turnovers.:p:

[Chieflion]

not that I wanted it, but Elton Brand is reportedly on the block.
Manu+Fab for Brand would work.
Brand looked bad this season, nonetheless this is something to at least think about, if it's on the table. he doesn't fit with the Sixers game, but on a team like the Spurs his abilities should be a better fit.
and I can see that the Sixers are interested in a player like Manu, also because of the contract, that expires in 2010.
however. I will be happy if this doesn't materialize and we get a somehow decent big man via another trade.
(so or so, without frontcourt help we could have 2 Manu's and we still wouldn't beat the Lakers)

Philly is not in the fucking race for 2010, most probably. Ginobili does not fit with the athletic Sixers anyway. Brand is a ridiculously hefty contract and a jumpshooting big like Jermaine O'Neal. To add to the insanity, we have to send Philly another filler. No fucking deal as Brand makes 13 million.

[mrspurs]

It really depends on who we get.

Yup. Its a business and we're your not producing like years before, you can be replaced by someone who produces more.

[mountainballer]

Philly is not in the fucking race for 2010, most probably. Ginobili does not fit with the athletic Sixers anyway. Brand is a ridiculously hefty contract and a jumpshooting big like Jermaine O'Neal. To add to the insanity, we have to send Philly another filler. No fucking deal as Brand makes 13 million.

just was you who brought up the word insanity.

[Rogue]

that depends, I bet It's gonna be helpful if they find a good player to trade manu for.

how about Josh Howard?

[DAF86]

not that I wanted it, but Elton Brand is reportedly on the block.
Manu+Fab for Brand would work.
Brand looked bad this season, nonetheless this is something to at least think about, if it's on the table. he doesn't fit with the Sixers game, but on a team like the Spurs his abilities should be a better fit.
and I can see that the Sixers are interested in a player like Manu, also because of the contract, that expires in 2010.
however. I will be happy if this doesn't materialize and we get a somehow decent big man via another trade.
(so or so, without frontcourt help we could have 2 Manu's and we still wouldn't beat the Lakers)

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113004&highlight=trade+manu

[MoSpur]

If you get someone who can create off the dribble, plus hit from the outside, throw some crazy bounce passes, go behind their back for a layup, dive for loose balls, and create havoc for opposing teams, then yes trading Manu would help the Spurs.

[SpurSupremacist]

It's too late now. His flaws are being magnified by the fact he can't make a fucking shot to save his life. You have to strike while the iron's hot with a trade, and the iron is currently cemented in an iceberg. Right now, the Spurs would be lucky to get Wally Z's expiring contract for him.

[Double-Up]

If you want Mac sure why not? :lol

[DAF86]

It's too late now. His flaws are being magnified by the fact he can't make a fucking shot to save his life. You have to strike while the iron's hot with a trade, and the iron is currently cemented in an iceberg. Right now, the Spurs would be lucky to get Wally Z's expiring contract for him.

You're a fucking idiot. You know that, right?

[Whisky Dog]

Why do people keep wanting to trade a great chemistry guy and team player who is a big part of the heart of the team and who produces?

Everybody only looks at numbers or talent... Anybody pay attention to what happens when you forget chemistry? Just look at the Cowboys.

[word]

You do realize how many times he's saved us....?

[MoSpur]

I do not understand people wanting to trade Manu. The dude is the heart, engine, and whatever other cliche thing you want to throw in there for this team. The is no other player in this league that plays like him. There are players who are better w/out a doubt, but another player who plays like he does? I don't know of any besides Rudy Fernandez and D-Wade.

[stéphane]

You do realize how many times he's saved us....?

You used a past tense. He's talking about now.

The answer is still "no" anyway.

[Rapper]

Manu is not a beast anymore

[SpurSupremacist]

You're a fucking idiot. You know that, right?

You do know you're backing a hasbeen, right?

[El Jefe]

:bang @ This thread

[DDS4]

The rest of the 29 other teams would love to take Ginobili off the Spurs hands.

Fans don't realize what they've got until he's gone. We may find out in 2010.

[jack sommerset]

Trade the Mangoo. The Devil himself could not tame this wild beast. (if there really was a Devil) He is unpredictable,unreliable and has bad eatting habits. Trade him to the Bucks I say for both of their picks this year. Redd is hurt. The Bucks will be a lotto team and would welcome the Mangoo. Do it Spews.

[DAF86]

You do know you're backing a hasbeen, right?

He may never be the player he once was, nobody can know for sure. But to say that we'd be lucky to get Zerbiak's expiring contract for him is beyond retarded. He's still our third best player, he can play under Pop's system with his eyes closed and he's 18th in the league in PER (to some that's like saying he is the 18th best player in the NBA) go look at his stats, you may surprise yourself to see that his numbers are actually pretty good.

[El Jefe]

The rest of the 29 other teams would love to take Ginobili off the Spurs hands.

Fans don't realize what they've got until he's gone. We may find out in 2010.

THIS

The sad thing is, Spurs fans already had an opportunity early this season to get a taste of life without Manu. Just because we scraped by a couple of terrible/injured teams does not mean we'd be fine without him.

Appreciate what you have now, the greener grass is an illusion.

[DAF86]

You used a past tense. He's talking about now.

The answer is still "no" anyway.

Well just off the top of my head i can think of: vs Atlanta, vs the Lakers at home, at chicago and last night.

[SpurSupremacist]

He may never be the player he once was, nobody can know for sure. But to say that we'd be lucky to get Zerbiak's expiring contract for him is beyond retarded. He's still our third best player, he can play under Pop's system with his eyes closed and he's 18th in the league in PER (to some that's like saying he is the 18th best player in the NBA) go look at his stats, you may surprise yourself to see that his numbers are actually pretty good.

Pretty good won't get it done. Pretty good doesn't equal 10 million a year. And yes, they would be lucky to get Wally's expiring deal for him, considering the cavs and nets have been talking for some time about a VC/Wally deal. And anyone who thinks Carter isn't better than Manu is absolutely out of their mind.

[DAF86]

Pretty good won't get it done. Pretty good doesn't equal 10 million a year. And yes, they would be lucky to get Wally's expiring deal for him, considering the cavs and nets have been talking for some time about a VC/Wally deal. And anyone who thinks Carter isn't better than Manu is absolutely out of their mind.

Well he isn't. Try to get Carter to average 15 points in only 10 fg attemps and 3.5 assts, 4.5 rbds, 1.5 stls in 25 minutes per game.

Besides the Nets aren't a contender type of team, they'd rather rebuild than get players to improve now.

To argue about something, you need to get a clue first.

[SpurSupremacist]

Well he isn't. Try to get Carter to average 15 points in only 10 fg attemps and 3.5 assts, 4.5 rbds, 1.5 stls in 25 minutes per game.

Besides the Nets aren't a contender type of team, they'd rather rebuild than get players to improve now.

To argue about something, you need to get a clue first.

Casual fans that think they know anything about the NBA really make me laugh.

When has Manu EVER been a franchise player in the NBA? When has Manu EVER seen double teams on a consistent basis? I'll tell you, Never.

Carter? He's been the franchise player on every team he's been on. He has been the go-to guy. And Manu is only averaging so many points in so little minutes because he's gunning. Per 48 minute stats are illusions and horse shit. Carter is shooting roughly the same percentage as Manu from the floor and he faces double teams on a nightly basis. I could just imagine what Carter would be able to do with Tim Duncan on his team. Recently Shaq said the only difference between Carter and Kobe was that Carter has never played with a great big man like Kobe has.

[HarlemHeat37]

I think it's pretty obvious that Vince has been much better than Manu this season, but that's not what the discussion is about..btw, New Jersey rejected the Wally offer a long time ago, and they aren't trading VC for something like that, since he's been their leader this season..

as for trading Manu..I would definitely think about it, but I highly doubt we would get equal value..Manu is the type of player that means more to us than he would to any other team..we'd have to find a desperate team to get something good out of him..who would give up a good, young player for an older, injury prone player that might never get to the level he was previously at pre-injury?..

hell no to Kaman or Dalembert, those would be horrible deals..

[HarlemHeat37]

we're probably much better off hoping Manu can re-gain his form, since that would be a better player than anybody we could get in return..

[DAF86]

Casual fans that think they know anything about the NBA really make me laugh.

When has Manu EVER been a franchise player in the NBA? When has Manu EVER seen double teams on a consistent basis? I'll tell you, Never.

Carter? He's been the franchise player on every team he's been on. He has been the go-to guy. And Manu is only averaging so many points in so little minutes because he's gunning. Per 48 minute stats are illusions and horse shit. Carter is shooting roughly the same percentage as Manu from the floor and he faces double teams on a nightly basis. I could just imagine what Carter would be able to do with Tim Duncan on his team. Recently Shaq said the only difference between Carter and Kobe was that Carter has never played with a great big man like Kobe has.

NBA fans that don't know shit about the rest of the basketball world and think that this league is all that matters made me laugh, just to let you know more than half of NBA teams wouldn't win the Euroleague (including the Nets).

Ginobili has been a franchise player all his life (except in the NBA where he played along Duncan. Carter would had never been a franchise player with Tim as a teammate during his whole career) and even though he never was a franchise player in the NBA, he's the closest thing to it, he's no role player. I could just imagine what Ginobili would be able to do with the freedom of taking 20 shots per game and the permisson to rest instead of playing defense.

And Shaq just said that 'cause he hates Kobe.

[MarHill]

Casual fans that think they know anything about the NBA really make me laugh.

When has Manu EVER been a franchise player in the NBA? When has Manu EVER seen double teams on a consistent basis? I'll tell you, Never.

Carter? He's been the franchise player on every team he's been on. He has been the go-to guy. And Manu is only averaging so many points in so little minutes because he's gunning. Per 48 minute stats are illusions and horse shit. Carter is shooting roughly the same percentage as Manu from the floor and he faces double teams on a nightly basis. I could just imagine what Carter would be able to do with Tim Duncan on his team. Recently Shaq said the only difference between Carter and Kobe was that Carter has never played with a great big man like Kobe has.

I'm sorry..that's crazy!

Vince Carter is a talented, athletic player but he doesn't bring anything else to the table. Also, he can be incredibly lazy on the defensive end and doesn't have the intangibles that Manu has.

Last night's game was an example of Manu who had a terrible offensive game..was the guy in the clutch making all his free throws (eight I believe) and two huge rebounds at the end of the game.

Manu deserves a chance to get fully healthy. And he's the X-Factor for the Spurs. Yes, he makes some terrible TO's...but he's a playmaker and there's no way the FO are going to get rid of him.

It amazes how many Spurs fans are so ready to trade him.....unbelievable!!

[MarHill]

THIS

The sad thing is, Spurs fans already had an opportunity early this season to get a taste of life without Manu. Just because we scraped by a couple of terrible/injured teams does not mean we'd be fine without him.

Appreciate what you have now, the greener grass is an illusion.

+1

Plus....the FO knows what they have with Manu and they are not going to trade him!!!

:flag:

[DAF86]

I think it's pretty obvious that Vince has been much better than Manu this season, but that's not what the discussion is about..btw, New Jersey rejected the Wally offer a long time ago, and they aren't trading VC for something like that, since he's been their leader this season..

as for trading Manu..I would definitely think about it, but I highly doubt we would get equal value..Manu is the type of player that means more to us than he would to any other team..we'd have to find a desperate team to get something good out of him..who would give up a good, young player for an older, injury prone player that might never get to the level he was previously at pre-injury?..

hell no to Kaman or Dalembert, those would be horrible deals..

I could give you that. But I will never let somebody say that Carter is a better player than Manu.

[spursncowboys]

Is this a serious question?

We avg. 14 pts 3 assists in 27 min. He is our spark when we need a score.
He is 100% owned in the fantasy.
But the best part is he only costs 9 mil this year.

[TMTTRIO]

I can't believe everone's giving up on him already. Yes it's been hard to watch him struggling like this but like he said he's never been out for three months without playing any basketball so of course it might be hard to get some consistancy right away. Hopefully by playoff time he'll be the Manu that everybody wants. So far I've seen games where he looks better than ever and then these games where he's looked horrible so I think he can eventually put it together. Manu won't bring us any value anyways other than some bench scrubs with the amount he's making. Just wait until Manu leaves the Spurs to go after one of those big FA and see how we do.

[galvatron3000]

We not trading Manu. Manu should be fine as the season continues and he's not really the main concern, frontline help is. Manu may never get to his usual self before this season ends, he may have to wait til next season when he has a summer to get in better physical shape and timing. Hopefully, by playoffs he will resemble himself a bit but trading him is not even on the table, we can get what we need without doing such so why bother unless Bynum and Bryant are coming in the deal.

[2centsworth]

I would have traded him this past summer for David Lee and Jamaal Crawford:

Lee 15ppg/11rbs JC 20ppg/4ast

That would look nice right now, but Manu has the potential to make any trade involving him look bad.

[rascal]

only if the spurs trade for dwyane wade. trading ginobili for someone like kaman reduces the spurs' offensive power by A LOT. duncan alone takes up all of the touches in the post when he's in the game. why would kaman get the ball over a hall of fame PF? kaman's averages will drop like a rock, leaving the spurs with a big hole in points scored.



The drop off in scoring won't be as bad as you may think. You bring in another big capable of scoring and with the development of Hill and more minutes for both Hill and Mason and the improvement the new big will have over the weak frontcourt players that the spurs are currently using that should be more than enough to offset what you will lose by losing Manu.

[2centsworth]

btw, this summer Manu lets us know that the spurs were secondary on his basketball list of priorities.

As a fan, loyalty to Manu is secondary to the success of the spurs.

[kace]

Manu will retire as a spur. i'm sure about it and it's the way it should be. stop asking a trade.

[rascal]

Casual fans that think they know anything about the NBA really make me laugh.

When has Manu EVER been a franchise player in the NBA? When has Manu EVER seen double teams on a consistent basis? I'll tell you, Never.

Carter? He's been the franchise player on every team he's been on. He has been the go-to guy. And Manu is only averaging so many points in so little minutes because he's gunning. Per 48 minute stats are illusions and horse shit. Carter is shooting roughly the same percentage as Manu from the floor and he faces double teams on a nightly basis. I could just imagine what Carter would be able to do with Tim Duncan on his team. Recently Shaq said the only difference between Carter and Kobe was that Carter has never played with a great big man like Kobe has.


Good post. Only homer spur fans think Manu is better than Carter. They always bring up Manu has won championships and Carter hasn't. By doing that you bring teammates into the equation and the comparisons can go out the window when you do that.

[TMTTRIO]

Manu will retire as a spur. i'm sure about it and it's the way it should be. stop asking a trade.

I'm not sure about that. I could possibly see Manu going elsewhere and I wouldn't blame him for that.

[rascal]

THIS

The sad thing is, Spurs fans already had an opportunity early this season to get a taste of life without Manu. Just because we scraped by a couple of terrible/injured teams does not mean we'd be fine without him.

Appreciate what you have now, the greener grass is an illusion.

Yes but you are not considering what Manu would bring in a trade also being on the spurs team that was playing earlier in the season.

[DAF86]

Good post. Only homer spur fans think Manu is better than Carter. They always bring up Manu has won championships and Carter hasn't. By doing that you bring teammates into the equation and the comparisons can go out the window when you do that.

Only stupid fans that let themselves fool by flashy dunks and meaningless stats think that Carter is better than Manu.

[DAF86]

btw, this summer Manu lets us know that the spurs were secondary on his basketball list of priorities.

As a fan, loyalty to Manu is secondary to the success of the spurs.

And what did they let us know when he settled for less money in benefit of the team?

[rascal]

we're probably much better off hoping Manu can re-gain his form, since that would be a better player than anybody we could get in return..

It would be better to get a quality frontline player like Camby. With Hill and Mason the 2 guard should be good enough. I believe Hill has the tools to be a future star in the league. He just needs playing time to develope his confidence.

[it's me]

It would be better to get a quality frontline player like Camby. With Hill and Mason the 2 guard should be good enough. I believe Hill has the tools to be a future star in the league. He just needs playing time to develope his confidence.

Ooooh I remember that thread … ur the same moron that thinks Manu is taking Hill’s minutes hahaha

[rascal]

Only stupid fans that let themselves fool by flashy dunks and meaningless stats think that Carter is better than Manu.

Stats are never meaningless. Carter will get to the hall of fame on stats.
Manu may or may not get in and if he does if will be because he was fortunate to be playing with Duncan and what he did outside of the NBA.

[it's me]

Stats are never meaningless. Carter will get to the hall of fame on stats.
Manu may or may not get in and if he does if will be because he was fortunate to be playing with Duncan and what he did outside of the NBA.


Crap… this guy has no clue…. If Ginobili gets in … it certainly wont be because of his NBA career… dude balled at a high level in europe and got some titles with his national team…

[mrspurs]

btw, this summer Manu lets us know that the spurs were secondary on his basketball list of priorities.

As a fan, loyalty to Manu is secondary to the success of the spurs.

100% Agreed. Unless of course your a lady with Player Pom Poms. And there are still players from the past that show up to games that are not PO games. Guys like David, Iceman still give back to our city. There are few guys who still believe in San Antonio that used to play for them. Those are the exceptions.

[Man In Black]

Stats are never meaningless. Carter will get to the hall of fame on stats.

He'll need to get to 25000 points. I don't he'll do it. He's definitely not first ballot. Can't do it for his international contributions, he only has 1 Olympic team appearance.

[DAF86]

Stats are never meaningless. Carter will get to the hall of fame on stats.
Manu may or may not get in and if he does if will be because he was fortunate to be playing with Duncan and what he did outside of the NBA.

See, you don't know shit. I don't know what I'm doing arguing with you.

Manu is already a lock for the hall of fame (but you're right, he'll only get there 'cause he was just lucky. Lucky to play along Tim Duncan, Lucky to win the gold medal playing with Pepe Sanchez, Lucky to win the euroleague playing with Marko Jaric, etc)

And if Carter gets in then Michael Redd, Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis and others deserve to get in too.

[2centsworth]

And what did they let us know when he settled for less money in benefit of the team?

10 mil in san antonio is like 20 mil in NY. That's a freakin fact!!!

[DAF86]

10 mil in san antonio is like 20 mil in NY. That's a freakin fact!!!

10 mill for Manu isn't the same as 20 mill for Manu

[spursncowboys]

Casual fans that think they know anything about the NBA really make me laugh.

When has Manu EVER been a franchise player in the NBA? When has Manu EVER seen double teams on a consistent basis? I'll tell you, Never.

Carter? He's been the franchise player on every team he's been on. He has been the go-to guy. And Manu is only averaging so many points in so little minutes because he's gunning. Per 48 minute stats are illusions and horse shit. Carter is shooting roughly the same percentage as Manu from the floor and he faces double teams on a nightly basis. I could just imagine what Carter would be able to do with Tim Duncan on his team. Recently Shaq said the only difference between Carter and Kobe was that Carter has never played with a great big man like Kobe has.

They have to double Duncan.

When there is one more play left in the game, the Spurs have the ball and are down, who gets the play? Manu.

Would Carter be able to put up numbers from the bench? I doubt it.
Would Carter be able to destroy his body day in day out without injuries? Absolutely not. He gets injured coming down from a jump shot.
Would Carter bring the dedication and heart that Gino brings every night? Hell No!!
Also Manu got a Gold medal when he was double teamed on a consistent basis!!

[2centsworth]

10 mill for Manu isn't the same as 20 mill for Manu

maybe in your simple world, but in the real world it can most certainly mean the same.

[DAF86]

maybe in your simple world, but in the real world it can most certainly mean the same.

?????

I would give my left nut just for 1000 box but ... In which paralel universe 10 mil and 20 mil are the same thing?

[2centsworth]

?????

I would give my left nut just for 1000 box but ... In which paralel universe 10 mil and 20 mil are the same thing?

you have to have a brain to know.

[DAF86]

you have to have a brain to know.

Or maybe have english as my first language so I can know if you're using an expression, beign sarcastic or what.

[MB20]

Or maybe have english as my first language so I can know if you're using an expression, beign sarcastic or what.

Life in NYC is a lot more expensive.

Creo que eso es lo que quiere decir...:toast

[DAF86]

Life in NYC is a lot more expensive.

Creo que eso es lo que quiere decir...:toast

Capaz que si :lol

[manufor3]

people dont realize manu is the key. if he has a bad game we lose, and if he has a good game, we win

[lefty]

We are the 2009 NBA Champions

[de Soto]

Many people? Any who actually count?

[Austin_Toros]

Trade the Mangoo. The Devil himself could not tame this wild beast. (if there really was a Devil) He is unpredictable,unreliable and has bad eatting habits. Trade him to the Bucks I say for both of their picks this year. Redd is hurt. The Bucks will be a lotto team and would welcome the Mangoo. Do it Spews.

:lmao

[El Jefe]

Good post. Only homer spur fans think Manu is better than Carter. They always bring up Manu has won championships and Carter hasn't. By doing that you bring teammates into the equation and the comparisons can go out the window when you do that.

Manu has won at every level he has played at. I guess he was just blessed to have good teammates in Euroleague......and the Olympics.......and with the Spurs..... on second thought, I don't think it's an accident.

Carter has never won anything meaningful, sulked his way out of Toronto, and has been accused of going through the motions with the Nets from time to time, especially on defense. I agree he is a supremely talented athlete, and is skilled at putting the ball in the basket. But far too much credit is given to PPG, and you are falling into the same trap as legions of fans and so called "experts" of the game.

[Yorae]

ingrates...