Trade Parker For Calderon

[portnoy1]

Trade tony parker for Jose calderon. Calderon is real point gaurd who knows his personel on the floor, who isn't always looking for his shot. who is more effecient, who is a better ft, fg and 3pt shooter, and who plays better defense, and who passes much much much much better, and who is much more focused and hungry than a younger guy who already has 3 rings and a wife to die for at home.

[DAF86]

You know, it does get old.

[lefty]

Calderon comes back from an injury and Raptors win 3 straight games.

He is an impact player, a better outside shooter than TP, but we need TP slashing skills, even if he isn't the best decision maker in the world.

[td4mvp21]

:lmao

[Sausage]

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r60/mr740ti/fail/millionaire_idiot_fail.jpg

[timvp]

Is there lead in San Antonio's tap water?

[mrspurs]

pass

[mrspurs]

Is there lead in San Antonio's tap water?

Maybe its people crammed inside because of the cold weather?

[portnoy1]

a look at the stats a month ago. parker 3.1/1.0 ast/trn ratio. calderon led the league at 5.1/1.2 ast/trn ratio. you cant argue with results.

[DPG21920]

This is absurd. That is not to say that Calderon is a bad player. But do you guys watch the games? Do you see what Tony Parker does for this team?

[timvp]

a look at the stats a month ago. parker 3.1/1.0 ast/trn ratio. calderon led the league at 5.1/1.2 ast/trn ratio. you cant argue with results.You mean the result of the Raptors becoming a much worse team after handing the keys to Calderon and trading away Ford?

And you saying Calderon is a better defender than Parker tells me you haven't watched him play. Calderon is the worst defensive starting point guard in the league.

[DPG21920]

a look at the stats a month ago. parker 3.1/1.0 ast/trn ratio. calderon led the league at 5.1/1.2 ast/trn ratio. you cant argue with results.

Can you argue with the amount of wins the Spurs have vs the amount of wins the Raps have? Can you argue how many rings TP has vs how many Calderon has? Can you argue points per game? Can you argue finals MVP's?

[portnoy1]

by the way even tho calderon signed a big contract, I think he is still cheaper than parker. all that non-sense about him being in the league 8 years. when it comes to scoring he cant be stopped. Ill give him that all day long and the next day to. But after 8yrs with all his speed, skill and so-called EXPERIENCE he should be able to get more than 6 assist a game besides droppin the ball and it happens to go to and open shooter.

[DAF86]

You mean the result of the Raptors becoming a much worse team after handing the keys to Calderon and trading away Ford?

And you saying Calderon is a better defender than Parker tells me you haven't watched him play. Calderon is the worst defensive starting point guard in the league.

The trade idea is stupid, but that is not the reason the Raptors suck right now.

[DPG21920]

Not to mention TP is ranked 20th in efficiency while Calderon is ranked 35th.

[Kori Ellis]

by the way even tho calderon signed a big contract, I think he is still cheaper than parker. all that non-sense about him being in the league 8 years. when it comes to scoring he cant be stopped. Ill give him that all day long and the next day to. But after 8yrs with all his speed, skill and so-called EXPERIENCE he should be able to get more than 6 assist a game besides droppin the ball and it happens to go to and open shooter.

Do you ever watch Spurs games? :lol

[timvp]

The trade idea is stupid, but that is not the reason the Raptors suck right now.The team is basically the same other than that swap. What say you?

[portnoy1]

When parker won finals MVP he was the only guy scoring on a non-high scoring series. He a great gaurd, I repeat a great gaurd but a terrible point gaurd. you know its true.

[sa_butta]

Thanks for the laughs, Im going to forward this joke.

[DPG21920]

Truth is that you do not know what you are talking about. Sorry, it is just a bad idea in all imaginable ways.

[sonic21]

:lmao

[samikeyp]

Yeah!.....


No. :bang

[sa_butta]

When parker won finals MVP he was the only guy scoring on a non-high scoring series. He a great gaurd, I repeat a great gaurd but a terrible point gaurd. you know its true.
Oh thats a good argument, how many finals MVP trophies does Calderon have??

[JPB]

Louis ?

[DAF86]

The team is basically the same other than that swap. What say you?

J. O'neal sucks but IMO if TJ Ford would have stayed with them, they would still be sucking. The Raptors last year played better with Calderon than with Ford and that is a fact, there's no reason to think that they'd be better with Ford instead of Calderon now.

[timvp]

When parker won finals MVP he was the only guy scoring on a non-high scoring series. He a great gaurd, I repeat a great gaurd but a terrible point gaurd. you know its true.

Tony Parker is a terrible point guard.

Great take :tu

[portnoy1]

Let me say that the whole effeciency rating is great. Parker shoots a high percentage from the field and the list goes on and on about how good of a player he is. but every johnson was not that talented, but he knew his abilities although limited and he knew his role and filled it perfectly. All I want from parker is to stop trying to figure out dfferent ways to score but start getting others involved. Like a real point guard should. The one time that parker played a great all around game was the palyoff series against the GRIZZLIES in 2004. I like tp. I just want a little brain and heart activity than skill. It has been 8 yrs ya know.

[vanvannen]

Is there lead in San Antonio's tap water?

I don't think this poster is in SA, though. His flawed english tells me he might be from a country south of the Equator. Am I getting close???

[Kori Ellis]

I don't think this poster is in SA, though. His flawed english tells me he might be from a country south of the Equator. Am I getting close???

No, he's a kid from San Antonio.

[timvp]

every johnson
This pretty much answers any questions we have about this poster.

[MoSpur]

LOL. I have been hating on TP as of late because I think he has been shooting more outside shots lately, but to suggest to trade him for Calderon is pathetic.

[Kori Ellis]

Let me say that the whole effeciency rating is great. Parker shoots a high percentage from the field and the list goes on and on about how good of a player he is. but every johnson was not that talented, but he knew his abilities although limited and he knew his role and filled it perfectly. All I want from parker is to stop trying to figure out dfferent ways to score but start getting others involved. Like a real point guard should. The one time that parker played a great all around game was the palyoff series against the GRIZZLIES in 2004. I like tp. I just want a little brain and heart activity than skill. It has been 8 yrs ya know.

If you actually watch the Spurs, you'd realize they want and need TP to score. They want him to be up there with Tim in FG attempts. And you would know that he's the scoring point guard that they want and need him to be.

Anyway, you are joke to think TP was at his best in 2004 - so people should just stop responding to you.

[MoSpur]

:lmao

I thought the Christmas break was over???

[timvp]

J. O'neal sucks but IMO if TJ Ford would have stayed with them, they would still be sucking. The Raptors last year played better with Calderon than with Ford and that is a fact, there's no reason to think that they'd be better with Ford instead of Calderon now.So simply adding Jermaine O'Neal is the reason why they are sucking?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Calderon is the worst defensive starting point guard in the league.

http://i2.tinypic.com/11b1d0x.jpg

[sa_butta]

Let me say that the whole effeciency rating is great. Parker shoots a high percentage from the field and the list goes on and on about how good of a player he is. but every johnson was not that talented, but he knew his abilities although limited and he knew his role and filled it perfectly. All I want from parker is to stop trying to figure out dfferent ways to score but start getting others involved. Like a real point guard should. The one time that parker played a great all around game was the palyoff series against the GRIZZLIES in 2004. I like tp. I just want a little brain and heart activity than skill. I am 8 yrs old ya know.
:hat

[fusionjazzman72]

Just another unrealistic trade thread. Lame!

[DPG21920]

If you actually watch the Spurs, you'd realize they want and need TP to score. They want him to be up there with Tim in FG attempts. And you would know that he's the scoring point guard that they want and need him to be.

Anyway, you are joke to think TP was at his best in 2004 - so people should just stop responding to you.


So simply adding Jermaine O'Neal is the reason why they are sucking?

Do yall just sit next to each other at home in the office or what?!

[DAF86]

I don't think this poster is in SA, though. His flawed english tells me he might be from a country south of the Equator. Am I getting close???

Whatch what you say :ihit

[timvp]

http://i2.tinypic.com/11b1d0x.jpgNash actually draws charges. Calderon is like Nash without the flopping.

[baseline bum]

Let's trade Duncan for Antawn Jamison too!

[Kori Ellis]

Do yall just sit next to each other at home in the office or what?!

We sit about 4 feet apart in our spare bedroom that is converted into an office, yes.

[DPG21920]

I knew it.

[timvp]

Six feet . . . .

[velik_m]

When parker won finals MVP he was the only guy scoring on a non-high scoring series. He a great gaurd, I repeat a great gaurd but a terrible point gaurd. you know its true.

Since english is not my first language, would someone explain to me what is a gaurd?

[DPG21920]

Do you sometimes just turn around and look at each other and say.....Holy Sh**





Because I do that to myself in my office sometimes!

[Kori Ellis]

Do you sometimes just turn around and look at each other and say.....Holy Sh**

:lol We talk on IM all day about how crazy SpursTalk is.

[mathbzh]

a look at the stats a month ago. parker 3.1/1.0 ast/trn ratio. calderon led the league at 5.1/1.2 ast/trn ratio. you cant argue with results.
I like Calderon. But I don't understand why people consider this ast/to ratio to such a great indicator of a PG skills.
Most of Parker's turnovers are not passing turnovers.
Parker get his TO when he drives to the basket.
These TO has more to do with his "real" FG% that with his passing.

If you are not convinced, guess who is leading the league in "assist/bad pass"?
http://www.82games.com/0809/RESORT7.HTM

[DAF86]

So simply adding Jermaine O'Neal is the reason why they are sucking?

Not necesarily, they could have had a fluke season last year. I'm just saying that there's no clear prove to say that leting Ford go is the reason the Raptors suck.

[DPG21920]

:lol We talk on IM all day about how crazy SpursTalk is.

I love it!

[ClingingMars]

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r60/mr740ti/fail/millionaire_idiot_fail.jpg

[Phenomanul]

So simply adding Jermaine O'Neal is the reason why they are sucking?

I think what he meant to say was that the players that were traded from the Pacers have failed to live up to their potential...

The Raptors gave up both offense and defense by losing Rasho Nesterovic and TJ Ford. It was exacerbated by the fact that Jermaine O'Neal has failed to live up to his end of the deal. The Raptors lost a considerable amount of talent on the deal instead of a staying even...

Calderon isn't the reason why the Raptors are underachieving this year.


That said, TP >>>>>>> Calderon. As far as what the Spurs need from their PG (scoring, defense).

[portnoy1]

I just dont want anybody misunderstand what im sayin. Once again tony parker has more rings because of who he's playin with. Pop is one of the top 5 coaches in the league. Tim duncan is well tim duncan, which means he is not chris bosh. Manu ginobili does most of his damage in the 4qt which isnt factored into an EFFECIENCY rating. where is parker then? and the surrounding players on the team know their roles because pop is a great coach. Parker has a better coach, better system, better big 2 by his side ( duncan , ginobili ) and smarter role players. thats all im sayin folks.
Last year TP 18.8 pts / 6.0 ast / 49% fg / 25% 3pt fg / 2.3 turnovers in 33 min a game.
Jose Calderon 11.2 pts / 8.3 ast / 51% fg / 42 % 3pt fg / 1.5 Turnovers in 30 min a game. A good portion coming off the bench.

even his numbers this year are slightly better than parkers. You cant argue with numbers

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Nash actually draws charges. Calderon is like Nash without the flopping.

I'm not gonna lie I don't watch Raptorball too much :lol

But does Calderon run around and ball hawk like Nash as well?

[DAF86]

I just dont want anybody misunderstand what im sayin. Once again tony parker has more rings because of who he's playin with. Pop is one of the top 5 coaches in the league. Tim duncan is well tim duncan, which means he is not chris bosh. Manu ginobili does most of his damage in the 4qt which isnt factored into an EFFECIENCY rating. where is parker then? and the surrounding players on the team know their roles because pop is a great coach. Parker has a better coach, better system, better big 2 by his side ( duncan , ginobili ) and smarter role players. thats all im sayin folks.
Last year TP 18.8 pts / 6.0 ast / 49% fg / 25% 3pt fg / 2.3 turnovers in 33 min a game.
Jose Calderon 11.2 pts / 8.3 ast / 51% fg / 42 % 3pt fg / 1.5 Turnovers in 30 min a game. A good portion coming off the bench.

even his numbers this year are slightly better than parkers. You cant argue with numbers

So we'd win games by just shooting 3's?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Last year TP 18.8 pts / 6.0 ast / 49% fg / 25% 3pt fg / 2.3 turnovers in 33 min a game.
Jose Calderon 11.2 pts / 8.3 ast / 51% fg / 42 % 3pt fg / 1.5 Turnovers in 30 min a game. A good portion coming off the bench.

even his numbers this year are slightly better than parkers. You cant argue with numbers

:lobt::lobt::lobt:

I'm not even a Spurs fan and I can use that argument against numbers here, it's that simple.

[ClingingMars]

Six feet . . . .

:lol

he's inching farther away!

[roycrikside]

The team is basically the same other than that swap. What say you?

I agree with most people, I wouldn't trade Tony for any point guard in the league besides Paul and maybe Williams, but there's no reason to put down Calderon, LJ, who's a damn fine player in his own right.

The Raptors' struggles this season have more to do with the games Calderon has missed than the ones he hasn't, and the Jermaine O'Neal experiment didn't work either. I think they played above their heads a bit last year and are crashing to Earth this year. You can't be a very good team without at least one swingman who can score consistently.

[Spurminator]

This thread is embarrassing. Not just as a Spurs fan, not just as a basketball fan, but as a human. That we as a society have managed to produce a person who would purposely propose and argue such an idea is a blot on all of humankind. Truly we have a long way to go.

[portnoy1]

EXAMPLE - guys go under screens against parker all the time. half the time he can make the jumpers exept if he is playin against the lakers. They have proved that to many years now. you cant go under any screen with calderon even if its at the 3pt line because he can hit. that opens up EASIER lanes to the basket and better shots for Tim, and more time for shooters to line up.

[ClingingMars]

This thread is embarrassing. Not just as a Spurs fan, not just as a basketball fan, but as a human. That we as a society have managed to produce a person who would purposely propose and argue such an idea is a blot on all of humankind. Truly we have a long way to go.

:lmao :lmao :lmao

http://t4toby.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/epicfail1.jpg

[timvp]

I think what he meant to say was that the players that were traded from the Pacers have failed to live up to their potential...

The Raptors gave up both offense and defense by losing Rasho Nesterovic and TJ Ford. It was exacerbated by the fact that Jermaine O'Neal has failed to live up to his end of the deal. The Raptors lost a considerable amount of talent on the deal instead of a staying even...

Calderon isn't the reason why the Raptors are underachieving this year.


That said, TP >>>>>>> Calderon. As far as what the Spurs need from their PG (scoring, defense).My points is that giving Calderon the full-time keys hasn't made the Raptors a better team. The Raptors thought they could elevate Calderon, bring over a few Euro point guards and be just as good at the position. It hasn't worked out.

Let's say Jermaine O'Neal and Rasho Nesterovic cancel each other out. Then the only real different is Calderon replacing the role he shared with Ford in the past.

I like Calderon as a player and he's probably a top five shooter in the league but my opinion is the Raptors underestimated his shortcomings defensively. Ford helped the Raptors hide Calderon some on the defensive end. Now that he can't hide as much, the Raptors defense overall has become much worse and that has been part of the reason why their overall team isn't as good.

[mathbzh]

I just dont want anybody misunderstand what im sayin. Once again tony parker has more rings because of who he's playin with. Pop is one of the top 5 coaches in the league. Tim duncan is well tim duncan, which means he is not chris bosh. Manu ginobili does most of his damage in the 4qt which isnt factored into an EFFECIENCY rating. where is parker then? and the surrounding players on the team know their roles because pop is a great coach. Parker has a better coach, better system, better big 2 by his side ( duncan , ginobili ) and smarter role players. thats all im sayin folks.
Last year TP 18.8 pts / 6.0 ast / 49% fg / 25% 3pt fg / 2.3 turnovers in 33 min a game.
Jose Calderon 11.2 pts / 8.3 ast / 51% fg / 42 % 3pt fg / 1.5 Turnovers in 30 min a game. A good portion coming off the bench.

even his numbers this year are slightly better than parkers. You cant argue with numbers

Parker average PER for the last 4 seasons: 21.05
Calderon best season so far: 20.77

How do you say that? You can't argue with numbers?

[portnoy1]

now that makes sense

[portnoy1]

being frank though, im thinkin about the future. If parker doesnt pass the ball soon, duncan and ginobili will be retired and the reigns will be in TPs hands. He will have to be the guy, which means more than scoring, he will have to set the table. Chris paul, deron williams and steve nash set the table for the teams they are on. Parker will have to pass to help his teammates succeed. If not he'll just be a scoring guard who gets his and thats it.

[velik_m]

Let's say Jermaine O'Neal and Rasho Nesterovic cancel each other out.

That's an insult to Rasho :P

[portnoy1]

oh an that whole calderon lets guys get by him defensively thing. Im forced to agree that guys do get by him and go all the way to goal for layups. My question is Do you notice any difference in the spurs? this season more than ever guys are getting layups and DUNKS. is that parkers fault? I would say no. better help from teammates is all.

[InK]

Isnt it possible to stop people with less then 5 (10, 100?, 300?) posts from making new threads? I was browsing through the first two pages today and its annoying to see so many new guys without selfcontrol/ selfrespect posting this garbage.

[portnoy1]

whats the big idea? it was just a thought and I wanted to see what people thought about that topic.

[timvp]

I agree with most people, I wouldn't trade Tony for any point guard in the league besides Paul and maybe Williams, but there's no reason to put down Calderon, LJ, who's a damn fine player in his own right.

The Raptors' struggles this season have more to do with the games Calderon has missed than the ones he hasn't, and the Jermaine O'Neal experiment didn't work either. I think they played above their heads a bit last year and are crashing to Earth this year. You can't be a very good team without at least one swingman who can score consistently.Again, I like Calderon but I think the Raptors overestimated what they had. It appears they thought the grass was greener on the other side but it hasn't worked out that way.

I disagree that they played above their heads last season. In fact, Mitchell was almost fired at the end of the year because they supposedly underperformed. Two seasons ago, the Raptors won 47 games ... and that was with a worse version of Bosh, a worse version of Bargnani and even worse perimeter players. In fact, they didn't have a swingman who averaged more than 9 points per game.

Fast forward two years and Bosh is better, Bargnani is better, the bigs are better and the swingmen are better. The only difference is that the keys to the point guard position have been fully given to Calderon. The result? 47 wins down to a pace of 33 wins.

It's not all Calderon's fault; it's more of the fault of the Raptors thinking they had a star in Calderon rather than a very good role player.

[Brazil]

whats the big idea? it was just a thought and I wanted to see what people thought about that topic.

let's see :lmao

I told you !! the ST Juglar economic cycles version: 10 days trade Manu 10 days Trade Parker but this one is a winner.

[portnoy1]

I dont understand, we are here talking about sports, And having what I felt was a good discussion no matter everyones opinion. in the end thats all it is, an opinion. Isnt like the coach pop is reading and taking to heart anything we say here.

[Hemotivo]

tp>>>>>>>>>>>calderon

[Kori Ellis]

I dont understand, we are here talking about sports, And having what I felt was a good discussion no matter everyones opinion. in the end thats all it is, an opinion. Isnt like the coach pop is reading and taking to heart anything we say here.

You felt this was a good discussion?

A good discussion is when there are good arguments on both sides. Not when you come up with something ridiculous and then there's 3 pages of people laughing at you/bashing you.

[portnoy1]

a new thread is a new thread, you didnt have to read it. but you did cause its a discussion about sports. Just relax and enjoy the site Ink, its all good bro.

[DPG21920]

Again, I like Calderon but I think the Raptors overestimated what they had. It appears they thought the grass was greener on the other side but it hasn't worked out that way.

I disagree that they played above their heads last season. In fact, Mitchell was almost fired at the end of the year because they supposedly underperformed. Two seasons ago, the Raptors won 47 games ... and that was with a worse version of Bosh, a worse version of Bargnani and even worse perimeter players. In fact, they didn't have a swingman who averaged more than 9 points per game.

Fast forward two years and Bosh is better, Bargnani is better, the bigs are better and the swingmen are better. The only difference is that the keys to the point guard position have been fully given to Calderon. The result? 47 wins down to a pace of 33 wins.

It's not all Calderon's fault; it's more of the fault of the Raptors thinking they had a star in Calderon rather than a very good role player.


What, What, What???????????

[portnoy1]

my bottom line is i just want parker to look for his teammates more instead of the rim cause' he can score anytime he wants to.

[Brazil]

my bottom line is i just want parker to look for his teammates more instead of the rim cause' he can score anytime he wants to.

you make my day

[portnoy1]

how did i do that ?

[Brazil]

You give me the opportunity to have a good LMAO

[Trainwreck2100]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y126/Trainwreck2100/toostupidtolive0im.gif

[portnoy1]

good for you bro.

[Brazil]

good for you bro.

Thanks bro :toast

see u in few days or hours for a new Trade Parker thread bro I'm sure you won't let me down bro

[Lackluster]

tony parker: 20.4 ppg - - 6.6 apg
jose calderon: 13.4 ppg - - 8.6 apg

i'll take tony's +7 ppg over 2 assists everytime. especially when he's shooting 49% from the field and is capable of going off for 30, 40, 50+

and is 2 assists really that much that it designates calderon as this ultimate facilitator and tony as this shoot first PG that can't pass/get his teammates going?

same goes for guys like kidd, billups, davis, and anyone else not named paul or williams. we're talking about less than 2 apg here. seems like splitting hairs to me.

[Pauleta14]

Let me say that the whole effeciency rating is great. Parker shoots a high percentage from the field and the list goes on and on about how good of a player he is. but every johnson was not that talented, but he knew his abilities although limited and he knew his role and filled it perfectly. All I want from parker is to stop trying to figure out dfferent ways to score but start getting others involved. Like a real point guard should. The one time that parker played a great all around game was the palyoff series against the GRIZZLIES in 2004. I like tp. I just want a little brain and heart activity than skill. It has been 8 yrs ya know.

It's fun because that's maybe the one thing that impressed most in Tony Parker since he came in the league!!
He came(too?) young, with no jump shot, not even able to dunk, not clutch, bad FT shooter, no 3s...I mean ...:lol!!!!!!!!
But he used his strengths (speed, ability to go to the rim WHEN HE WANTS, selfconfidence...) to fill in Spurs system and earn his place in starting 5 only 5 games coming into the season!
I mean the guy is smart and knows what he can/can't do and does is quite wisely...
At least, if you realy love the Spurs and have followed them since TP's arrival, you have to have noticed that he improved his game EVERY YEARS! always adding something to his game...
A far as this year, he improved his FT shooting to 80%!
His jumpshot is now respected either by his teamated(lol) and the opponents.
He proved he CAN be clutch!
His decision making improved too...
And he is only 26 (:wow!) and is gaining veteran experience (8 years in the league, 3 rings, 2 ASG, +100 PO games...)!!

You'll probably think that I 'm a TP homer (whitch I'm not, just opposed to TP bashers :lol) but you have to find better arguments/comparaisons than that!
If you start watching what he brings to the team, not what he doesn't, you could be supprised...:rollin

[Phenomanul]

Again, I like Calderon but I think the Raptors overestimated what they had. It appears they thought the grass was greener on the other side but it hasn't worked out that way.

I disagree that they played above their heads last season. In fact, Mitchell was almost fired at the end of the year because they supposedly underperformed. Two seasons ago, the Raptors won 47 games ... and that was with a worse version of Bosh, a worse version of Bargnani and even worse perimeter players. In fact, they didn't have a swingman who averaged more than 9 points per game.

Fast forward two years and Bosh is better, Bargnani is better, the bigs are better and the swingmen are better. The only difference is that the keys to the point guard position have been fully given to Calderon. The result? 47 wins down to a pace of 33 wins.

It's not all Calderon's fault; it's more of the fault of the Raptors thinking they had a star in Calderon rather than a very good role player.

I guess what I'm saying is that the tandem of Calderon + TJ Ford was greater than either player by himself. So if they're worse off at the point this year it is because they obviously lost considerable talent in Ford. IMO they would be in the same boat this year if it had been Calderon that was traded to the Pacers.

Didn't the Raptors also lose a recovered Garbajosa during the offseason as well?

The Raptors woes stem from losing too many pieces and not gaining enough in return.

[portnoy1]

fair enough. but once again the future. 3 yrs from now parker cant just dump the ball in to tim when he's in trouble or let manu do his thing in the 4th quarter because they both might be retired. He will have to learn to be the man and do more than score.

[FromWayDowntown]

So, even though Parker's coach is pretty insistent that Parker look for his shot as much as possible, at least one fan thinks that Parker is, essentially, unsatisfactory unless he chooses to defy his coach's instructions and look to be more of a creator than a scorer?

[FromWayDowntown]

Oh, and when Tim and Manu are done, I'd be SHOCKED if Tony Parker remained a Spur. I fully expect that the curtain coming down on Tim Duncan's career will bring with it wholesale changes and long-term rebuilding for the Spurs.

I don't think the Spurs are making many moves at this point with the future beyond the end of Duncan's career in mind. They're trying to get younger now, IMO, not in an effort to sustain their successes beyond Timmy's retirement but in an effort to maximize the chances that they can put another ring or two in Timmy's collection. In the summer of 2010, that might change, but in 2009, that is pretty clearly not the aim.

[portnoy1]

im not opposed to tony parker just like your not a tp homer. but looking at the court vision of a williams, nash and paul not in that order of course, parker must learn their skills before duncan and ginobili retires so he can help the other young guys that will be on the team. And parker has improved, ESPECIALLY HIS JUMPER. I'll give him that. I watch all the games. even the ones before he came into the league. so i follow what your sayin, im just thinkin about when tim and manu wont be here.

[Spursone]

:lobt2::nope Please reframe from smoking crack before starting a thread!

[timvp]

I guess what I'm saying is that the tandem of Calderon + TJ Ford was greater than either player by himself.Agree. That's what I think Colangelo didn't recognize. It appeared as he thought he could simply play Calderon more and replace what Ford gave to the team ... when in actuality, the tandem of Calderon and Ford was what was winning games.


So if they're worse off at the point this year it is because they obviously lost considerable talent in Ford. IMO they would be in the same boat this year if it had been Calderon that was traded to the Pacers. Also agreed. Calderon and Ford combined to make a near superstar level point guard tandem. Separated, they are both good but not nearly as great. Both of their weaknesses are magnified now.

[portnoy1]

:lobt2::nope Please reframe from smoking crack before starting a thread! yeah i know, im tryin to cut down. lol

[lefty]

You mean the result of the Raptors becoming a much worse team after handing the keys to Calderon and trading away Ford?

And you saying Calderon is a better defender than Parker tells me you haven't watched him play. Calderon is the worst defensive starting point guard in the league.

They lost most of their games while Calederon was out for an injury.

They are 3/3 since he came back.

[Brazil]

im not opposed to tony parker just like your not a tp homer. but looking at the court vision of a williams, nash and paul not in that order of course, parker must learn their skills before duncan and ginobili retires so he can help the other young guys that will be on the team. And parker has improved, ESPECIALLY HIS JUMPER. I'll give him that. I watch all the games. even the ones before he came into the league. so i follow what your sayin, im just thinkin about when tim and manu wont be here.

For the moment they are here and TP is playing the way Pop wants him to play. The aim is to win another one not to make experiments to know how TP will play when td and manu will retire. By the way Tim retirement => Pop retirement => IMHO high potential of TP trade

[portnoy1]

For the moment they are here and TP is playing the way Pop wants him to play. The aim is to win another one not to make experiments to know how TP will play when td and manu will retire. By the way Tim retirement => Pop retirement => IMHO high potential of TP trade
amen to that.

[JPB]

my bottom line is i just want parker to look for his teammates more instead of the rim cause' he can score anytime he wants to.

I suggest you read the 100000000000000 threads about that topic before starting a 1000000000000001.

[portnoy1]

amen to that.
what do you think it will take for the spurs to win this year? in your most honest opinion.

[portnoy1]

I suggest you read the 100000000000000 threads about that topic before starting a 1000000000000001.yeah probably should. my bad just signed on yesterday.

[JPB]

Schizophrenia ?

[portnoy1]

Schizophrenia ?
what?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

portnoy1.









Check.

[SpursFan0728]

My thoughts on this thread is...

First of all thanks for sharing your idea portnoy1.

Secondly, no, trading Parker away for Calderon will hurt the spurs with out a doubt. What spurs really need is a scoring PG and Parker is a great fit to the system. Calderon is a playmaker and always think of passing first before shooting.

With that being said, I do think Calderon is a good PG. Definlately the better ones in the east

[Pauleta14]

my bottom line is i just want parker to look for his teammates more instead of the rim cause' he can score anytime he wants to.

Sure!
I don't want a player that can do that in my team! :lol

[Pauleta14]

fair enough. but once again the future. 3 yrs from now parker cant just dump the ball in to tim when he's in trouble or let manu do his thing in the 4th quarter because they both might be retired. He will have to learn to be the man and do more than score.

That's called adapting your game and that's what he did so far...
When he scored 55, we, unfortunatly, needed them at that time...
Manu was/is so far the best FT shooter so he has the ball in his hands at the end...
There are so many examples!!!

[it's me]

Now Calderon >Parker WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF hahahaha

This place is unique

[Eruff24]

What is in the food in San Antonio?

[K-State Spur]

When parker won finals MVP he was the only guy scoring on a non-high scoring series. He a great gaurd, I repeat a great gaurd but a terrible point gaurd. you know its true.

A PG's job (like every other player on the team) is to fill whatever role his coach wants him to.

Tony does that. There's really no valid argument otherwise.

[Brazil]

what do you think it will take for the spurs to win this year? in your most honest opinion.

A good Big to help Tim: won't happen
An elimination of the Lakers before the WCF
A 100% Manu
Being healthy

[ploto]

The team is basically the same other than that swap. What say you?

No Rasho :D

[TDMVPDPOY]

calderon plays like nash, both are overrated and will be exposed by tp

[ploto]

I love Jose, but the loss of TJ Ford has been huge because the duo of Ford AND Calderon together was what was so effective. On any given night, one usually had a great game, and they brought different skill sets to the team that could benefit them depending on the match-up.

Jose has a nice assist to turnover ratio because of how he plays and for whom he plays. He does not make mistakes in passing because he rarely makes anything but the obvious safe pass. He also is on a team that has some really good shooters by virtue of how the team is constructed so he gets good assist numbers. He is definitely the worst defensive starting PG in the NBA.

One way in which I disagree with timvp is his statement that the Raptors have better perimeter players now. Parker was better 2 seasons ago and they surely miss Delfino. If they were so sure they wanted to trade TJ, they should have done it for a wing player- stuck with Andrea starting and brought Rasho off the bench.

[benefactor]

I takes 5 pages to figure out that Parker is better than Calderon? Gimme a break.

[DAF86]

I takes 5 pages to figure out that Parker is better than Calderon? Gimme a break.

Nop, it takes 5 pages to let the OP know just how stupid his idea is.

[wisnub]

The guy who start this trade only post about 37 times. He questioned Parker's game and judging by number of assist alone. Another teams fan undercover? could be,but maybe not. One thing is for sure, definitely this guy didnt watch enough Spurs games to understand the importance of TP to Spurs success,but there will be uninformed people like that. Calderon is a good BACKUP point guard and he definitely can shoot free throws or three. But compared to TP he is a nobody. It is really stupid analysis to judge TP like that,his game is improving including his jumpshots, he slash other team' defense and he can play defense. On playoffs or when it needed (such as SA vs suns he end up pass the ball to open Mason with couple of seconds left and won the game). The most important to do is pass the ball in the times of need which create winning shots. Dont just look at stats and yap yap like a moron. He is young,quick,able to shoot and definitely able to tear other teams defense apart let alone will be key for SA fastbreak if there;s any. He is a playoff's MVP with all stars game experience,let alone helping Duncan lead this team. Big 3 cannot be separated unless age factors and rebuilding comes to play,even idiots knows that (We havent need to rebuild and we already got solid rookies in Mason and Hill). Really idiot analysis. If we dont have George Hill than I would trade Bonner for him. Fact that both Bonner and Hill play well put the idea to the window. As for assist, TP still able to improve not to mention rookie Hill. Please dont put any more joke,that would be appreciated,thanks...