Shaq to the Mavs?

[G-Nob]

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=1281

A Logical Proposal To Trade Josh For Shaq
With The Suns 'Splintering,' A Deal To Energize Phoenix And Mavs
By David Lord -- DB.com

“What would you do if you were the Mavs?’’ I’m often asked. “Who would you target? What would be your plan?’’ And up until now, I’ve usually bailed on answering, because I didn't see a) obvious targets that b) might be available where c) the Mavs could offer a win-win trade and d) get where they want to go.

But now I do.

Rumblings from the NBA's grapevine have given me an answer so I can give you an answer. One I really like, in fact.

It involves the Mavs trading for Shaquille O’Neal.

This is DallasBasketball.com Law, and let’s put down this groundwork first: We always differentiate between trade notions that we present that are the result of conversations with the Mavs and other teams, and trade notions that are of our own creation. This is the latter. And, of course, our body or work speaks for itself in regard to creating our own notions that actually make sense according to the CBA and the like.

Having said that. …

There is talk from the desert that the Suns might be thinking of changing course again. Their self-admitted problem is that the mix of Shaq and Amare hasn't been good for either Amare or Nash. It seems clear (and logical) that the Suns long-term preference is to keep Nash and build around the younger Amare (26) rather than continue to rely on O’Neal as a future foundation piece.

“We are splintering,’’ says team leader Steve Nash, adding that he thinks it’s “50-50’’ whether Phoenix management will break up its team.

If that's true, could Shaq possibly be available in trade? It would seem so. It would seem “50-50’’ so. What other intelligent way would there be for that franchise to restructure itself?

Given his high salary and age, the Suns might have a tough time finding teams with the right mix of contracts and talent to make an attractive trade match. But if I'm Mavs owner Mark Cuban, the Big Cactus (who will have to come up with yet another nickname) goes right to the top of my target list. And I may have just what the Suns want.

Can the Mavs make a deal that fits the trade rules? Absolutely. The deal that makes the most sense to me would be to offer Josh Howard, with Jerry Stackhouse's contract as filler, and get back Shaq and reserve wing Matt Barnes. No picks. No cash. A simple two-for-two.

Wouldn't the Suns want more? Won't the Mavs have to add in some younger players? While the Mavs could certainly do that, I'm not sure the Suns would want it. The more players you send means the more salary they'll be getting back. That’s not owner Robert Sarver’s bag.

What's in it for Dallas? The Mavs' need for interior offense would be addressed.(Yay! Easy baskets!) Shaq’s ability as a game-changing defender (at least in spurts) would be welcomed. Barnes would help fill the hole left by the departure of Howard, and he would also fill that “energy gap’’ that is being discussed in-house as a Mavs need. And I think overall, that need for additional scoring would be met by the two acquisitions. In fact, Shaq -- who is playing 31 minutes per and pulling down nine rebounds per -- is also averaging 18 ppg. Isn't that the target number for what Dallas wants of Josh to be its "second scorer''?

For that matter, the addition of Shaq would fill the energy/excitement gap as well.

A starting lineup led by Dirk, Kidd and Shaq? Compelling.

Bethlehem Shoals notes accurately that O'Neal is on his "last hurrah.'' But could is just be his second-to-last hurrah?

What's in it for Phoenix? They immediately can return to the free-flowing offense that is more natural for their two main talents (Amare and Nash), and Josh can help fill the role of defender/shooter/rebounder that Shawn Marion excelled in.

But there's another benefit to the Suns that may make them even more eager to do this deal. This trade would IMMEDIATELY lower the Suns' team salary by almost $5M, which would put them below the tax threshold. That would not only save them some payroll but would also save them an additional $5M in tax they otherwise would have been forced to pay, plus it would qualify them for a share of the league welfare that goes to the tax-free teams (this year probably $2-3M). In addition, the Suns' team salary for 2009-10 would be reduced by about $10M, which would take them from tax payer to tax free in that year as well.

The Suns get younger and faster and they save money. The Mavs get value for what we at DB.com have termed Josh’s “60-cents-on-the-dollar’’ situation and they yet another “home-run swing’’ in the KIDDIRK Era.

And the Mavs get something else.

The one final issue that needs to be addressed – and one that looms as the most important thing this side of immediate championship contention -- is the summer of 2010. How would this deal impact the prospects of both teams in regards to their options that year? It wouldn't. None of the contracts carry any team obligations past June of 2010.

[Ghazi]

I wish.

[stretch]

even though i cant stand shaq, i would do that in a heartbeat if possible

[G-Nob]

"Just what they need" (?)
Where's the perimeter D? He'd be enough to let Dirk roam how he wants, though.

[ClingingMars]

wow. this is kinda of scary. at least on the Mavs side. if they could make the trade and get in as the 8th seed...

-Mars

[Findog]

How dumb were the Mavs to go after Kidd instead of Shaq?

[monosylab1k]

This is all just hypothetical stuff, the writer even says there's no basis to believe this trade is actually being discussed.

And I doubt Phoenix is dumb enough to do this trade.

[monosylab1k]

How dumb were the Mavs to go after Kidd instead of Shaq?

They were dumb to not trade for him 5 years ago when they had the chance.

[Xylus]

Shaq is absolutely, 100%, not being traded.

Why would the Suns trade their best player? We already have a lazy piece of shit on our team, why would we want another?

Horrible trade idea. Now, Dirk for Amare + filler, and then we'll talk.

[monosylab1k]

Shaq is absolutely, 100%, not being traded.

Why would the Suns trade their best player? We already have a lazy piece of shit on our team, why would we want another?

Horrible trade idea. Now, Dirk for Amare + filler, and then we'll talk.

Amare + J-Rich for Dirk, I'd do that.

[stretch]

Why would the Suns trade their best player?

Nash? Or Amare?


We already have a lazy piece of shit on our team

Shaq?


Now, Dirk for Amare + filler, and then we'll talk.

Amare + Richardson or Nash + filler, then we'll talk... just Amare + Filler absolutely isn't enough for Dirk.

[monosylab1k]

Amare + Richardson or Nash + filler, then we'll talk... just Amare + Filler absolutely isn't enough for Dirk.

Nash + filler for Dirk? No freakin way.

There's nobody on the Suns good enough AND young enough for it to be a Them + filler for Dirk trade. Phoenix would have to give up two players of significance.

Amare/J-Rich for Dirk/Stack works, and I'd do that. Anything less than this and Phoenix, or any other team, can piss off.

If you really want Dirk, hand Dallas a bottle of anal lube and prepare to be raped.

[Ghazi]

They were dumb to not trade for him 5 years ago when they had the chance.


Revisionist history.

[stretch]

Nash + filler for Dirk? No freakin way.

There's nobody on the Suns good enough AND young enough for it to be a Them + filler for Dirk trade. Phoenix would have to give up two players of significance.

I meant it as Amare + either Richardson or Nash, + another filler.

[monosylab1k]

Revisionist history.

:lmao

Funny how quick the cheerleaders will toss out the same old lies to defend every significant failure of the past.

[monosylab1k]

I meant it as Amare + either Richardson or Nash, + another filler.

ah okay. yeah that works. I'd rather have J-Rich than Nash tho.

[Ghazi]

Look bro, we had a 2 year window. In 05-06 the Cheat hit a bunch of fluky bullshit jumpers and the refs fucked us up the ass and in 06-07 scrubs like Barnes and Davis suddenly learned how to play basketball and tossed up garbage fluky bullshit jumpers that somehow went in.

2-3 year windows, that's just the nature of the NBA.

So yes, it is revionist history to say we should've traded for Shaq, who doesn't guarantee a title especially if you pair Dirk with Kobe.

[monosylab1k]

Look bro, we had a 2 year window. In 05-06 the Cheat hit a bunch of fluky bullshit jumpers and the refs fucked us up the ass and in 06-07 scrubs like Barnes and Davis suddenly learned how to play basketball and tossed up garbage fluky bullshit jumpers that somehow went in.

2-3 year windows, that's just the nature of the NBA.

So yes, it is revionist history to say we should've traded for Shaq, who doesn't guarantee a title especially if you pair Dirk with Kobe.

Do you know what revisionist history means?

The phrase you were looking for is "hindsight is 20/20"

[Ghazi]

Touche, I'm an idiot!

But still, HINDSIGHT IS 20/20. Screw Matt Barnes and his fluky bullshit jumpers.

[ClingingMars]

Look bro, we had a 2 year window. In 05-06 the Cheat hit a bunch of fluky bullshit jumpers and the refs fucked us up the ass and in 06-07 scrubs like Barnes and Davis suddenly learned how to play basketball and tossed up garbage fluky bullshit jumpers that somehow went in.

2-3 year windows, that's just the nature of the NBA.

So yes, it is revionist history to say we should've traded for Shaq, who doesn't guarantee a title especially if you pair Dirk with Kobe.

SpursDynasty? or should I say MavsDynasty?

[Xylus]

Hypothetically, would you guys do:

Amare/JRich for Dirk/Bass

Kidd
JRich
Howard
Amare
Dampier

Nash
Barbosa
Hill
Dirk
Shaq


Not even sure if I would do that trade, but it's interesting to look at.

[stretch]

Hypothetically, would you guys do:

Amare/JRich for Dirk/Bass

Kidd
JRich
Howard
Amare
Dampier

Nash
Barbosa
Hill
Dirk
Shaq


Not even sure if I would do that trade, but it's interesting to look at.

Mavs would be stupid to do it. Suns would be stupid not to do it.

[monosylab1k]

Hypothetically, would you guys do:

Amare/JRich for Dirk/Bass

Throw in some first rounders and I'd be a little bit interested. But like I said, IMO giving up Dirk should mean getting an almost unfairly large assload in return. If someone really wants Dirk, they're gonna have to take it in the shorts for him, and I doubt Phoenix, being in kinda the same boat as Dallas, really wants to do that.

[IronMexican]

Any trade involving Dirk fot Amare is dumb.

[monosylab1k]

I enjoy the anti-Amare backlash happening this season, cuz the guy is a major douche....but let's not let that cloud reasonable thinking. Amare playing at his best is close to unstoppable on offense.

Is he as good as Dirk, no, not even close. But he's still a damn good player and half a decade younger, and he's got the athleticism to be, in theory, an elite rebounder and solid defender (something Dirk can't be even with maximum effort on D).

[lurker]

Porter and Kerr are doing everything they can to accommodate Shaq and make things as easy for him as possible, no matter how miserable the rest of the team is because of it. He's not going anywhere.

[Ghazi]

Agree, Amare isn't even that young. What you see is what you get. He's 26, he's not gonna get any better, and he's not "that' impressive to begin with regarding franchise players.

You cannot build a title around Amare, you probably can't around Dirk either, but the odds are better.

Quite frankly there's only 4-5 players you "can" build a title around barring a fluke like the 2004 Pistons.

[monosylab1k]

Agree, Amare isn't even that young. What you see is what you get. He's 26, he's not gonna get any better, and he's not "that' impressive to begin with regarding franchise players.

You cannot build a title around Amare, you probably can't around Dirk either, but the odds are better.

Quite frankly there's only 4-5 players you "can" build a title around barring a fluke like the 2004 Pistons.

Dirk improved by leaps and bounds from 26 to 29. He's regressed a tad from that prime now that he's in his 30's, but to say Amare can't improve anymore at 26 is stupid, cuz Dirk did exactly that.

[IronMexican]

Amare needs a back to the basket game. Unless Dallas gets STAT, J-Rich and a first(Or two), I wouldn't do it. Shaq kicking to Dirk is a scary thought.

[clambake]

all we need is pre-cocaine roy tarpley.

[monosylab1k]

Unless Dallas gets STAT, J-Rich and a first(Or two), I wouldn't do it.

:tu

[Ghazi]

True, still dont see any superduperstar potential in him.

If the Mavs are serious about winning a title they can either learn how to hit a bunch of fluky bullshit jumpers come playoff time, or not look toward 2010, look toward 2015. Lebron is winning the next 6 championships no matter what, you might as well acquire a slew of draft picks and hope to get the next "superduperstar", cause all the current young players with superduper potential are not coming to Dallas (D-Whistle, Howard, Paul, Lebron).

[clambake]

why wouldn't paul sign with dallas?

[Ghazi]

He has a long contract with the Hornets.

Not that it matters anyway, at the end of the day, no team led by a 5'11 midget bitch flopping point guard who defers to Jannero fucking Pargo in quarter 4 of game 7 will ever win a championship.

[Xylus]

You guys can have as many of our draft picks as you want. It's not like we ever do anything with them. :lol

Amare has regressed slightly this year because Porter doesn't see him as "The Man" like D'Antoni did. Put him on a team like Dallas, where he's light years ahead of Dampier offensively, and he'll put up about 26 points a game for you guys.

[Indazone]

Ah yes, another NBA rumor to give Mavsfans some hope. :lol

Shaq paired up with Dirk and Kidd. How much older and fossilized would this team be? It is intriguing however. Shaq and Dirk would make an interesting combo.

But then that's just it. It's the Dallas Fantasy Island Mavericks. If you wish it hard enough and click your heels three times it'll still never happen.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t313/wenushead/Mavs_logo_001.jpg

[Ghazi]

Where's Rogue to put this cocksucker in his place?!

The 2nd round virgins giving us lip, pshhh. 2 rings? All Hakeem did was hit a bunch of fluky bullshit jumpers while Jordan was taking a break, big deal. No skill required to do that.

[monosylab1k]

Ah yes, another NBA rumor to give Mavsfans some hope. :lol

Shaq paired up with Dirk and Kidd. How much older and fossilized would this team be? It is intriguing however. Shaq and Dirk would make an interesting combo.

But then that's just it. It's the Dallas Fantasy Island Mavericks. If you wish it hard enough and click your heels three times it'll still never happen.

You're not the chosen brother, Eli. It was Paul who was chosen. You see, he found me and told me about your land. You're just a fool.

[stretch]

Ah yes, another NBA rumor to give Mavsfans some hope. :lol

Shaq paired up with Dirk and Kidd. How much older and fossilized would this team be? It is intriguing however. Shaq and Dirk would make an interesting combo.

But then that's just it. It's the Dallas Fantasy Island Mavericks. If you wish it hard enough and click your heels three times it'll still never happen.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t313/wenushead/Mavs_logo_001.jpg

LMAO yao

LMAO tmac

LMAO 1st round

[Shank]

Only 2 pages to turn into Mavs/Rockets shit-talking! FUCK YES!

[ClingingMars]

Only 2 pages to turn into Mavs/Rockets shit-talking! FUCK YES!

:corn: :corn: :corn:

[IronMexican]

This shit never gets old. C'mon, Inda!

[Ghazi]

Our beloved Mavs fanbase, when your heart weeps at our transition from contenders to mediocrity, stand strong. And when it bothers you, recite:

Devin Harris will not be forgotten
The glory of the Mavericks shall soon be restored
Jason Kidd will thread the needle but strike his wife twice as hard if hit
Dirk Nowitzki is the best power forward in basketbal
The 2006 Finals were rigged and D-Whistle just hit some fluky bullshit jumpshots
All the Warriors did was hit some fluky bullshit jumpers
Down with the Spurs
Down with the Rockets
Down with the Hornets
Down with the Lakers
Down with the Celtics
Down with the Warriors
Down with the Nets
Down with Bennett Salvatore and David Stern
The Mavs are victorious
The NBA is defeated

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Josh Howard and Amare are two prime examples of guys with worlds of talent and shitty attitudes holding them back. Only Isiah Thomas would pull the trigger on a trade to put them together in a locker room

[Ghazi]

I disagree that Josh Howard has worlds of talent. At his VERY VERY best, he's just a borderline reserve all star.

[BUMP]

Ah yes, another NBA rumor to give Mavsfans some hope. :lol

Shaq paired up with Dirk and Kidd. How much older and fossilized would this team be? It is intriguing however. Shaq and Dirk would make an interesting combo.

But then that's just it. It's the Dallas Fantasy Island Mavericks. If you wish it hard enough and click your heels three times it'll still never happen.



T-Mac, if you click your heels three times you might end up in the second....:lmao

[BUMP]

At his VERY VERY best, he's just a borderline reserve all star.

thats still not bad, and when you say VERY VERY best you sound like he played only a few games at an all star level over his carrer. he played a whole season like that but now he just needs a change of scenery

[DrHouse]

Imagine if DAL had kept Harris and traded Howard for Shaq.

Dirk
Shaq
Harris

Not a bad trio right there.

[Indazone]

Imagine if DAL had kept Harris and traded Howard for Shaq.

Dirk
Shaq
Harris

Not a bad trio right there.

There really is a Willy Wonka and soon there will be an appearance of some Oompa Loompa's at a stadium near you. :lol

[Armando]

Now why would Kerr trade the one player in Phoenix who has been the most consistent?

[Armando]

Josh Howard and Amare are two prime examples of guys with worlds of talent and shitty attitudes holding them back. Only Isiah Thomas would pull the trigger on a trade to put them together in a locker room



But you now what NBA GMs will assume that both those guys just need a change of scenery. Teams will be lining up for them especially Amare in free agency or via trade.

[dirk4mvp]

Dirk improved by leaps and bounds from 26 to 29. He's regressed a tad from that prime now that he's in his 30's, but to say Amare can't improve anymore at 26 is stupid, cuz Dirk did exactly that.


What's that one thing called? oh yeah, work ethic. Some players have it, some don't. Amare is a prime example of the latter.

[DPG21920]

What's that one thing called? oh yeah, work ethic. Some players have it, some don't. Amare is a prime example of the latter.

WTF are you talking about, have you no idea about the gorilla game?

[Rogue]

I would rather to trade the same package for stoudmire instead of shaq, but I've found no way for suns to trade amare for those two guys.

If the suns insist to trade shaq instead of stoudmire, then I hope mavs still do this trade anyway, because even shaq is more valuable than howard. trading josh and jerry for one of "50 greats players of all time" is definitely a great deal, it would still be great even if the mavs got nothing inexchange.

[21_Blessings]

Why would the Suns trade their best player? .


Because their 'best player' is leading them straight to the lottery

[Findog]

Because their 'best player' is leading them straight to the lottery

Hi, 21 Palins. The Mavs will get the ninth seed, not the Suns.

[DrHouse]

Shaq is not a piece that is going to do the Suns any good, regardless of what numbers he's putting up. With him they are clearly not going to win a title, but they also aren't going to suck hard enough to get a good lotto pick. At best they will get into the playoffs and bounced in the 1st/2nd round.

Keeping Shaq around next season is just delaying the inevitable. If the Suns move Shaq now they probably won't make the playoffs, but at least they can start the rebuilding process 1 yr earlier.

For the Mavs this may be the final chance they have at putting a quality team out there with Dirk. Shaq is the kind of big man that Dirk should have been playing with his entire career. I would definitely be excited to see what it would do for his career, I think he'd excel playing alongside a strong interior force.

[de Soto]

Great move! Keep losing with even greater cash outlay....go mavs! :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao