Is this for real? If so, we need to tear down the Fed.

[The Reckoning]

AU7cjbgEHRI

[Wild Cobra]

AU7cjbgEHRI
I didn't see a solid source on it, but about two months ago, I heard the treasury had long stopped publishing the quantity of money they were printing. I forget the number, but it was massive. Never took the time to verify it. Maybe it is real?

[The Reckoning]

I didn't see a solid source on it, but about two months ago, I heard the treasury had long stopped publishing the quantity of money they were printing. I forget the number, but it was massive. Never took the time to verify it. Maybe it is real?

that's what i was wondering? i know its faux news, and all that partisan bullshit gets in the way, but the thought of that graph being slightly accurate is really fucking scary. does anybody know the actual numbers? i think the public should know.

[Wild Cobra]

that's what i was wondering? i know its faux news, and all that partisan bullshit gets in the way, but the thought of that graph being slightly accurate is really fucking scary. does anybody know the actual numbers? i think the public should know.
My understanding is that it's real hard to find out. Sometime after the 2006 elections, the Treasury stopped publishing how much money they were printing! Summer of 2007, our economy started crapping out again.

[The Reckoning]

damn. a world war was fought for this very reason...

[Winehole23]

M3 (money supply) was published by the Fed until 2006-7.

M2, the broadest measure of the money supply currently tracked by the Federal Reserve:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3bGnkNeoPxk/SYEBshgY3yI/AAAAAAAACWU/KPx9pPGCUto/s400/M2_Max_630_378.png (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3bGnkNeoPxk/SYEBshgY3yI/AAAAAAAACWU/KPx9pPGCUto/s1600-h/M2_Max_630_378.png)
M1, a narrower measure of the money supply:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3bGnkNeoPxk/SYEBszis7_I/AAAAAAAACWc/uuSSniq9KDA/s400/M1_Max_630_378.png (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3bGnkNeoPxk/SYEBszis7_I/AAAAAAAACWc/uuSSniq9KDA/s1600-h/M1_Max_630_378.png)
M0, the monetary base (currency plus central bank reserves), the portion of the money supply directly controlled by the Federal Reserve:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3bGnkNeoPxk/SYEBtdpkM3I/AAAAAAAACWk/lgQO6nOmkWk/s400/BASE_Max_630_378.png (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3bGnkNeoPxk/SYEBtdpkM3I/AAAAAAAACWk/lgQO6nOmkWk/s1600-h/BASE_Max_630_378.png)
The Fed helicopters are a-flyin'!


http://blog.jparsons.net/2009/01/graphs-us-money-supply.html

[Wild Cobra]

M3 (money supply) was published by the Fed until 2006-7.

Maybe I'm a year off. Very possible, or did you mean to type 2007-6?

I'll read the link when I have time, but I have to go now.

Nice chatting.

[SnakeBoy]

Well that fucking sucks!

So who's buying gold?

[The Reckoning]

well atleast i dont have to buy toilet paper anymore to wipe my ass :tu

[The Reckoning]

:depressed

[Winehole23]

Maybe I'm a year off. Very possible, or did you mean to type 2007-6?You were right. It was 2006.


http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/JubaksJournal/FedKillsAKeyInflationGauge.aspx

[BradLohaus]

Look at the charts of the Dow Jones average and the money supply growth for the last quarter century and ask yourself: which one has been causing the other?

[DarkReign]

Just another good damn reason to make the Fed go the way of the dinosaur.

[Heath Ledger]

Dont worry we will just go to War with and then occuply Iran and the economy will be Golden. Oil will cost like .29 cents a gallon right?

[DarkReign]

Dont worry we will just go to War with and then occuply Iran and the economy will be Golden. Oil will cost like .29 cents a gallon right?

Not if Exxon/BP/Chevron have anything to say about it, it wont.

[FreeMason]

I am 22 and have been maxing out my rothIRA since 18, but I am fucking scared to death (not really, but for the first time I am allowing myself to doubt the entire market system). I don't trust shit anymore.

[SnakeBoy]

for the first time I am allowing myself to doubt the entire market system.

Are you Alan Greenspan?

At 22 you'll be alright, things will work out eventually although it might be painfull. Just keep working, don't get deep in debt, don't get drafted. It's retired or close to retirement people who are really getting the shaft.

[101A]

I am 22 and have been maxing out my rothIRA since 18, but I am fucking scared to death (not really, but for the first time I am allowing myself to doubt the entire market system). I don't trust shit anymore.


The "Market"?

This ain't the market - this IS the exact opposite of that.

[101A]

Are you Alan Greenspan?

At 22 you'll be alright, things will work out eventually although it might be painfull. Just keep working, don't get deep in debt, don't get drafted. It's retired or close to retirement people who are really getting the shaft.

Uh. no.

The baby boomers WILL get their's - we live in a democracy and they vote; they have, more than any other, gotten us into this, and are now piling on. If their investments are shit; that's ok; they'll just increase SS checks - watch.

[Winehole23]

I am 22 and have been maxing out my rothIRA since 18, but I am fucking scared to death (not really, but for the first time I am allowing myself to doubt the entire market system). I don't trust shit anymore.You're already a saver: that puts you way ahead of your peers. At 22, you'll ride this thing out. Even if you get totally wiped out, you've got plenty of time to recover. It's the people who are 5-10 years away from retirement who are really fucked.

While I wouldn't urge anybody to limit their skepsis in this world, may I suggest you narrow your focus to the OP?

Our currency system is fucked up. Every time the Fed creates money from nothing, it creates debt, debases the value of money, and lines its own pockets. How? By charging the government interest on the money it creates. Every fiat system eventually destroys the currency. We think we're an exception to the rule. But the value of the USD is only as good as our promise to pay. With the insane risk of megabanks added to our already irresponsible level of indebtedness, deficits as far as the eye can see and unaffordable entitlements looming in the near to medium term, our promise to pay has never been under more stress.

The petrodollar and our status as the preeminent world reserve currency are the only things preventing us from going the way of Argentina in the late 1980's. If the rest of the world could quickly and safely decouple from the USD, they already would have. Versus a basket of currencies, the USD is down 30% in value since 2002.

I'm not gonna say bimetallism is the answer here, but for damn sure the Treasury is allowed to create money under the US Constitution. A good start would be to cut the Fed banks loose, and stop paying interest to private banks on our own goddam currency.

But this will never happen. Why? Because the Fed has installed their flunky Tim Geithner in Treasury. Government by for and of the banks. Sucks mightily.

Ask yourself this: how close in time were the announcement of Kennedy greenbacks and his assassination?

[doobs]

Are you Alan Greenspan?

At 22 you'll be alright, things will work out eventually although it might be painfull. Just keep working, don't get deep in debt, don't get drafted. It's retired or close to retirement people who are really getting the shaft.

Disagree.

The close-to-retirement people are the ones who will likely benefit the most from the stimulus. The stimulus is intended, in part, to stave off a harsh economic reckoning, and thus it's meant to preserve the retirement savings of middle aged and older people. But, in reality, we're just delaying our obligations and our debts. Frankly, if you're between the ages of 0 and 35, the burden of responsibility will be yours.

I, for one, am willing to put up with some years of shitty economic circumstance--if it helps us out in the long run. Sometimes things need to get worse before they get better. But our government has other plans.

[Winehole23]

Disagree.

The close-to-retirement people are the ones who will likely benefit the most from the stimulus. The stimulus is intended, in part, to stave off a harsh economic reckoning, and thus it's meant to preserve the retirement savings of middle aged and older people. $500-1000 a year means very little to people who've seen so much of their equity destroyed, so close to the day of retirement


But, in reality, we're just delaying our obligations and our debts. Frankly, if you're between the ages of 0 and 35, the burden of responsibility will be yours.The burden will fall harder on the bolded category, but they'll also have more time to feather their own nests. They may not enjoy the level of prosperity we did in our lifetimes, but they have the advantage of time, with the disadvantage you emphasize.



I, for one, am willing to put up with some years of shitty economic circumstance--if it helps us out in the long run. Sometimes things need to get worse before they get better. But our government has other plans. I think the hangover has been well earned whether or not it leads to fiscal health. I hope it does. Because I'm pretty sure that efforts to avoid it will not work.

[doobs]

$500-1000 a year means very little to people who've seen so much of their equity destroyed, so close to the day of retirement

It's not just the $500-1000. It's the attempt to fend off the recession and artificially boost the financial markets. I believe that, in the short-term, the stock market will get a boost and be overvalued as a result of the stimulus. Then the old folks can cash out.

It's the young people, like me, who will be left paying the bills.

[Winehole23]

It's not just the $500-1000. It's the attempt to fend off the recession and artificially boost the financial markets. I believe that, in the short-term, the stock market will get a boost and be overvalued as a result of the stimulus. Then the old folks can cash out.You seem to think the stimulus will boost asset classes. Why?

[DarrinS]

Wow, that is a scary video.


LOL at the Al Gore lift. :lmao

[Winehole23]

Look at the charts of the Dow Jones average and the money supply growth for the last quarter century and ask yourself: which caused which?



http://www.nowandfutures.com/images/m3_plus_credit_long_term.pngwhich one has been causing the other?[/quote]


http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/images/djia1900s.png

[Wild Cobra]

You were right. It was 2006.


http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/JubaksJournal/FedKillsAKeyInflationGauge.aspx
Are you trying to confuse me? I was wrong about it being 2007. I didn't say 2006. I said after the 2006 elections, and yes I was pointing towards blaming democrats.

[Wild Cobra]

I am 22 and have been maxing out my rothIRA since 18, but I am fucking scared to death (not really, but for the first time I am allowing myself to doubt the entire market system). I don't trust shit anymore.
Keep maxing it out, and place it in good stock oriented mutual fund that have the better potential to recover. Think of it this way. You are buying it all at half value. You will be very happy once the markets recover.

[Winehole23]

Are you trying to confuse me? I was wrong about it being 2007. I didn't say 2006. I said after the 2006 elections, and yes I was pointing towards blaming democrats.It was in March of 2006, so no dice.

Besides, the Fed is independent of the USG. Politicians have no input. All they can do is replace the chairman from time to time

[Winehole23]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7d/Federal_Funds_Rate_%28effective%29.svg/640px-Federal_Funds_Rate_%28effective%29.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Federal_Funds_Rate_%28effective%29.svg)

[doobs]

You seem to think the stimulus will boost asset classes. Why?

I believe the stimulus--to the extent that it actually is an economic stimulus that works--will temporarily, and artificially, boost the stock market.

The financial bailout was designed, in part, to keep the market afloat. The stimulus package is designed, in part, to keep the market afloat by keeping people spending and creating work for businesses through government contracts. It may work for a few years. It may not. (I find the supposed multiplier effect of government spending very unpersuasive.)

All I'm saying is that younger people are doomed to pay the bill, regardless. Older people--especially those whose retirement packages are dependent on stock market performance--stand the most to gain from the financial bailout and the proposed stimulus. (Well, government employees and liberal pet projects stand a lot to gain, too.)

[Winehole23]

I believe the stimulus--to the extent that it actually is an economic stimulus that works--will temporarily, and artificially, boost the stock market.Best case scenario. I hope you're right about this, but I have my doubts, too.

[angrydude]

Educate yourselves

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article7843.html

The Fed needs to be burned to the freaking ground.

[SpursFanFirst]

AU7cjbgEHRI

:smchode: That was a pretty powerful segment. Scary stuff!

[The Reckoning]

bump. more pertinent than palin.