Mark Jackson's Comment about Lebron James today. [Archive]

MarHill

02-01-2009, 04:33 PM

YellowFever

02-01-2009, 04:51 PM

MarHill

02-01-2009, 04:55 PM

Not that I agree with Mark Jackson but the "best small forward of all time" list in the NBA is kinda thin.

Dr J.
Elgin Baylor
Connie Hawkins
Dominique Wilkens

or even...

John Havlicek
Rick Berry
Scottie Pippen

and if you want to reach...

James worthy
Billy Cunningham

Gotta admit, compared to the other all time great spots, the SF spot is a little limited.

You may have a point...but he hasn't won a championship yet! He's only been in the league 5 years.

Let's wait before you give him that kind of status!!

:flag:

baseline bum

02-01-2009, 04:59 PM

You may have a point...but he hasn't won a championship yet! He's only been in the league 5 years.

Let's wait before you give him that kind of status!!

:flag:

Baylor and Wilkins never won one either, and Dr. J didn't win one until he got a Hall of Fame bigman on his team.

resistanze

02-01-2009, 05:05 PM

Baylor and Wilkins never won one either, and Dr. J didn't win one until he got a Hall of Fame bigman on his team.
+1.

sook

02-01-2009, 05:06 PM

LJ fucking sucks

GOAT

02-01-2009, 05:09 PM

layupdrill

02-01-2009, 05:09 PM

James, when his career is over, will be looked at among the best ever, regardless of position.

Behrooz24

02-01-2009, 05:10 PM

Obstructed_View

02-01-2009, 05:12 PM

They put Shaq on the top 50 all time list before he'd been in the league as long as James has. Barring something hugely unforseen, it's easy to see how he's going to end up at the very least second behind Bird at that position when his career is done.

baseline bum

02-01-2009, 05:13 PM

I personally think it is not fair to judge a NBA players career on championships.....If you are not surronded by talent as Wilkens was it really isn't his fault.....Or how about Malone and Stockton who just happened to run into some dude name Jordan twice....

Malone choked in every big game. He choked against Shawn Kemp. Choked against Brian Grant. Choked against Dirk Nowitzki. Stockton's the one who would drag that team to success, and he's wildly underrated.

ducks

02-01-2009, 05:17 PM

First of all, I'm not a Lebron James hater. I think he is an excellent talent and a very good basketball player.

But, Mark Jackson just said on the Cavs/Pistons game that he is the second best small forward ever behind Larry Bird. What is he smoking?

Again, I think Lebron is good, even very good...but he isn't the second best small forward ever behind Larry.

Let's see where Lebron's career ends up and how many championships he's won before we give him the kind of lofty status.

I believe we are (in modern times) prisoners of the moment and lose historical perspective on the game. We do that a lot in sports.

Lastly, before I give any player "a best ever" status...he has to have won multiple championships and had an incredible statistical resume.

:flag:
this talk is crazy
he got to the big stage and got sweepted in finals
played terrible the first couple games

let him finish his carer or atleast play past his prime before this stupid talk

DAF86

02-01-2009, 05:18 PM

M. Jackson is right. Lebron is already better than all the other SF's in the history of the league except Bird.

Obstructed_View

02-01-2009, 05:24 PM

sweepted

this stupid talk

stretch

02-01-2009, 05:25 PM

in the end, LBJ will hands down be the best SF ever, and very possibly the best player ever

stretch

02-01-2009, 05:26 PM

:lmao @ ducks

ducks go fuck yourself and die

Obstructed_View

02-01-2009, 05:27 PM

in the end, LBJ will hands down be the best SF ever, and very possibly the best player ever

And ducks will still be in here saying "he sucks cause he missted ashot once".

stretch

02-01-2009, 05:28 PM

And ducks will still be in here saying "he sucks cause he missted ashot once".

:lol

sook

02-01-2009, 05:30 PM

And ducks will still be in here saying "he sucks cause he missted ashot once".

why do you always throw ducks somewhere i nevery post dude?

dirk4mvp

02-01-2009, 05:33 PM

If Larry had had an ounce of athleticism, he'd never be touched as to who's the best SF of all time.

ManuTim_best of Fwiendz

02-01-2009, 05:50 PM

If Larry had had an ounce of athleticism, he'd never be touched as to who's the best SF of all time.

That guy must have been really good if Lebron with all his natural talent still can't edge out a hick from French Lick.

MarHill

02-01-2009, 05:51 PM

this talk is crazy
he got to the big stage and got sweepted in finals
played terrible the first couple games

let him finish his carer or atleast play past his prime before this stupid talk

Thank you!

Again, I'm not posting that Lebron James is terrible or even mediocre... but to say he's the best SF ever is way premature.

How can you compare him against an Elgin Baylor or Dr. J or even 'Nique Wilkins? Stats can't tell the entire story for players from different eras. I believe you can only judge a player against the people of that players' era.

Lastly, if you want to be considered the "best-ever status" you must have won multiple championships! Period.

Let him develop his career before we start calling someone the "best-ever".

MarHill

02-01-2009, 05:52 PM

in the end, LBJ will hands down be the best SF ever, and very possibly the best player ever

maybe in the end..you're right

but not 5 years into his career...that's premature!

MarHill

02-01-2009, 05:55 PM

Baylor and Wilkins never won one either, and Dr. J didn't win one until he got a Hall of Fame bigman on his team.

But Dr. J did get a championship...I don't care that it came at the end of his career. He got one!

And Lebron doesn't have one!! (Now he may get one.....)

But to say he's the best SF ever...he will have to have championships on his resume!!!

The Franchise

02-01-2009, 05:55 PM

Mark Jackson says a lot of dumb shit.

Obstructed_View

02-01-2009, 05:59 PM

Thank you!

Again, I'm not posting that Lebron James is terrible or even mediocre... but to say he's the best SF ever is way premature.

How can you compare him against an Elgin Baylor or Dr. J or even 'Nique Wilkins? Stats can't tell the entire story for players from different eras. I believe you can only judge a player against the people of that players' era.

Lastly, if you want to be considered the "best-ever status" you must have won multiple championships! Period.

Let him develop his career before we start calling someone the "best-ever".

The only person that agreed with you is the biggest LBJ hater on this board. Just FYI.

MarHill

02-01-2009, 06:03 PM

The only person that agreed with you is the biggest LBJ hater on this board. Just FYI.

It's okay that people don't agree with me.....I still believe it's premature to have called him the 2nd best SF ever..when his career isn't done.

We have a prisoner of the moment culture..especially when it comes to sports.

They are people who believe that Kobe is better than MJ. And they're wrong too!!

:flag:

Ghazi

02-01-2009, 06:03 PM

MarHill

02-01-2009, 06:06 PM

Lebron is the best small forward of all time, seriously.

The "championship" argument can blow me, it's just a matter of time before he wins multiple titles anyway. Everyone knows it. He finally has his Robin (Mo) and the Cavs still have Wally's contract to add another piece.

But he hasn't won anything yet and you don't know how a career could go.

God forbid...he gets injured and that's it.

I'm sorry....you can't exclude championships if you want to be called the best SF ever. So that argument doesn't blow!

If the American Sports Culture is all about winning then you have to win it all at the highest level.

Obstructed_View

02-01-2009, 06:07 PM

why do you always throw ducks somewhere i nevery post dude?

I can't tell if you're making fun of ducks or not, but since you put a question mark at the end, I'll assume you're serious.

I only call ducks an idiot when he says something idiotic. Don't blame me if it happens all the time.

Obstructed_View

02-01-2009, 06:12 PM

It's okay that people don't agree with me.....I still believe it's premature to have called him the 2nd best SF ever..when his career isn't done.

We have a prisoner of the moment culture..especially when it comes to sports.

They are people who believe that Kobe is better than MJ. And they're wrong too!!

:flag:

It's clearly premature, and I see what you're saying about media people overstating things, but LBJ is far better than "good, or even very good" as you called him. If his career ends today it's true that Jackson's statement goes out the window, but barring any injury, and given the development of his game from coming into the league out of high school, he can be as good as anyone that's ever laced them up, and it's not a stretch to say he's already nearing or even at the second best ever at his position, given the relative weakness of all-timers at that particular spot.

Obstructed_View

02-01-2009, 06:12 PM

But he hasn't won anything yet and you don't know how a career could go.

God forbid...he gets injured and that's it.

I'm sorry....you can't exclude championships if you want to be called the best SF ever. So that argument doesn't blow!

If the American Sports Culture is all about winning then you have to win it all at the highest level.

Then Dan Marino can't be named in any conversation about quarterbacks. Ever. Bernie Kosar can because he won a ring with the Cowboys.

Does that actually make sense?

Ghazi

02-01-2009, 06:18 PM

But he hasn't won anything yet and you don't know how a career could go.

God forbid...he gets injured and that's it.

I'm sorry....you can't exclude championships if you want to be called the best SF ever. So that argument doesn't blow!

If the American Sports Culture is all about winning then you have to win it all at the highest level.

An injury or Lebron suddenly forgetting how to play basketball is the only way he wont win championships.

Players of Lebron's caliber simply win championships. It's that simple.

MarHill

02-01-2009, 06:21 PM

It's clearly premature, and I see what you're saying about media people overstating things, but LBJ is far better than "good, or even very good" as you called him. If his career ends today it's true that Jackson's statement goes out the window, but barring any injury, and given the development of his game from coming into the league out of high school, he can be as good as anyone that's ever laced them up, and it's not a stretch to say he's already nearing or even at the second best ever at his position, given the relative weakness of all-timers at that particular spot.

In your paragraph...you wrote he can be and that's a huge difference to say he already is. And that isn't semantics!!!

I agree that SF position maybe the weakest....but we can wait a bit before we start giving someone the "best-ever status!" Also, I still have a hard time dismissing those players who played before him...even though we didn't get to see them play.

It is easy to look at our era and make that kind of declarative statement. But, I can't go there! I will say if he fulfills his potential...he will be one of the best-ever in the early 21st century period of pro basketball.

Even though, I wrote he's very good....that isn't a knock on him at all. I thought Kobe was very good for years...but now he's an excellent player and one of the best of this modern era.

And I think our culture is too quick to call someone a "genius or the best ever" before its deserved.

MarHill

02-01-2009, 06:24 PM

Then Dan Marino can't be named in any conversation about quarterbacks. Ever. Bernie Kosar can because he won a ring with the Cowboys.

Does that actually make sense?

You're missing the point.

Dan Marino is one of the best quarterbacks of the modern era. But he isn't the best...because he didn't win championships.

There is a huge difference between being one of the best and being the best!!!

MarHill

02-01-2009, 06:27 PM

An injury or Lebron suddenly forgetting how to play basketball is the only way he wont win championships.

Players of Lebron's caliber simply win championships. It's that simple.

We don't know that...yet!

And until it happens...I'm not going to call him the "2nd best SF ever" or even the best SF ever.

That is a declarative statement and hype or speculation doesn't cut it if you are going to make that type of declaration.

baseline bum

02-01-2009, 06:31 PM

But Dr. J did get a championship...I don't care that it came at the end of his career. He got one!

And Lebron doesn't have one!! (Now he may get one.....)

But to say he's the best SF ever...he will have to have championships on his resume!!!

And LeBron would have at least one if he had Moses Malone, not to mention Andrew Toney and Mo Cheeks on his team. He has never had a single teammate as good as any of those three. Dr. J had probably the best supporting cast any star has ever had in NBA history on that '83 team.

MarHill

02-01-2009, 06:37 PM

And LeBron would have at least one if he had Moses Malone, not to mention Andrew Toney and Mo Cheeks on his team. He has never had a single teammate as good as any of those three. Dr. J had probably the best supporting cast any star has ever had in NBA history on that '83 team.

But he didn't...and again you are dealing in pure speculation.

The 76ers were knocking on the doors for years. As a matter of fact...they reach the NBA finals in 1980 only to lose to the Lakers and lost several playoff series to the Celtics in those days.

Plus, we are dealing with different players from different eras.

The statement made by Mark Jackson was declarative or even definitive...so if you are going to say that...you can't have hype or speculation backing up your statement.

Lastly, I like the way Lebron James plays.....but I'm not going there yet until I see a longer resume.

:flag:

Obstructed_View

02-01-2009, 06:43 PM

In your paragraph...you wrote he can be and that's a huge difference to say he already is. And that isn't semantics!!!

I said "he can be the best at any position that ever played the sport" and Jackson simply said that he's already the second best ever at his position. Don't confuse what I said with what Jackson said, as they are two completely different statements. If Jackson is guilty of overstating how good Lebron James is, you're equally guilty of understating it.

I agree that SF position maybe the weakest....but we can wait a bit before we start giving someone the "best-ever status!"
Nobody's saying he's the best ever. BTW do you get this wrapped up when someone says that Duncan is the best power forward of all time even though his career isn't over?

And I think our culture is too quick to call someone a "genius or the best ever" before its deserved.[/QUOTE]
I agree. VH1 got so much attention doing those "best ___ of all time" lists that now everyone does it or says something outrageous. That said, what Jackson said isn't all that outrageous.

baseline bum

02-01-2009, 06:44 PM

It was pretty easy to see Magic, Bird, and Jordan were all-time greats after a couple of years in the league. By Duncan's second year it was pretty clear he was better than Malone or Barkley. Would that be any different if he got drafted by Boston and didn't have David Robinson controlling the lane on defense or feeding him easy layups from the high-post? Surely he wouldn't have won a title quickly on Boston.

pauls931

02-01-2009, 06:44 PM

Bird had a much better supporting cast than Lebron does though...

Obstructed_View

02-01-2009, 06:45 PM

You're missing the point.

Dan Marino is one of the best quarterbacks of the modern era. But he isn't the best...because he didn't win championships.

There is a huge difference between being one of the best and being the best!!!

Cool. Troy Aikman >> Dan Marino. I've been waiting years to be able to say that.

MarHill

02-01-2009, 06:47 PM

I said "he can be the best at any position that ever played the sport" and Jackson simply said that he's already the second best ever at his position. Don't confuse what I said with what Jackson said, as they are two completely different statements. If Jackson is guilty of overstating how good Lebron James is, you're equally guilty of understating it.

Nobody's saying he's the best ever. BTW do you get this wrapped up when someone says that Duncan is the best power forward of all time even though his career isn't over?

And I think our culture is too quick to call someone a "genius or the best ever" before its deserved.
I agree. VH1 got so much attention doing those "best ___ of all time" lists that now everyone does it or says something outrageous. That said, what Jackson said isn't all that outrageous.[/QUOTE]

BTW....yes I do because its a legitimate debate. I don't mind debating something like this.

I know Jackson said he was already the 2nd best ever SF. But there are some who have already posted he is the best ever...so I'm debating that as well.

It's nothing personal.....

Obstructed_View

02-01-2009, 06:47 PM

And LeBron would have at least one if he had Moses Malone, not to mention Andrew Toney and Mo Cheeks on his team. He has never had a single teammate as good as any of those three. Dr. J had probably the best supporting cast any star has ever had in NBA history on that '83 team.

Maybe the best single NBA team ever. Who thinks that team wouldn't have won with LBJ instead of Doc?

The championship argument is taken WAY too far more often than the "greatest ever" argument. I refuse to believe that Barry Sanders is somehow not in the argument for the best at his position simply because he was on horrible teams his whole career. What Lebron James did taking that shitty Cavs team to the finals is hugely underrated.

baseline bum

02-01-2009, 06:49 PM

Cool. Troy Aikman >> Dan Marino. I've been waiting years to be able to say that.

IOW, Manu Ginobili > LeBron James

Obstructed_View

02-01-2009, 06:50 PM

BTW....yes I do because its a legitimate debate. I don't mind debating something like this.

I know Jackson said he was already the 2nd best ever SF. But there are some who have already posted he is the best ever...so I'm debating that as well.

It's nothing personal.....

It's only a legitimate debate if you don't create strawman arguments to pummel during the debate.

Obstructed_View

02-01-2009, 06:51 PM

IOW, Manu Ginobili > LeBron James

Beno Udrih > Lebron James

Mengke Bateer > Lebron James

MarHill

02-01-2009, 06:52 PM

Maybe the best single NBA team ever. Who thinks that team wouldn't have won with LBJ instead of Doc?

The championship argument is taken WAY too far more often than the "greatest ever" argument. I refuse to believe that Barry Sanders is somehow not in the argument for the best at his position simply because he was on horrible teams his whole career. What Lebron James did taking that shitty Cavs team to the finals is hugely underrated.

For example, I think Terrell Davis of the Broncos was one of the best running backs of his era..but not the best ever or even the 2nd best ever of his era.

He has 2 Superbowl Rings and I believe ran for 2,000 yards in one of his seasons.

There is a difference between being the best or 2nd best ever and one of the best.

MarHill

02-01-2009, 06:53 PM

It's only a legitimate debate if you don't create strawman arguments to pummel during the debate.

I'm not creating strawman arguments.

I took the words from Mark Jackson's mouth and posted the thread!

Obstructed_View

02-01-2009, 06:56 PM

For example, I think Terrell Davis of the Broncos was one of the best running backs of his era..but not the best ever or even the 2nd best ever of his era.

He has 2 Superbowl Rings and I believe ran for 2,000 yards in one of his seasons.

There is a difference between being the best or 2nd best ever and one of the best.

And if Lebron James tears up a knee tomorrow Jackson's statement (which was intended to draw attention and spark debate) will be re-evaulated (or more likely forgotten as 90 percent of these are). As of now, it's not all that ridiculous.

Obstructed_View

02-01-2009, 06:58 PM

I'm not creating strawman arguments.

I took the words from Mark Jackson's mouth and posted the thread!

Yeah, it's what you've done since that point that I'm referring to. Hey, at least ducks agrees with you.

peskypesky

02-01-2009, 07:08 PM

Lebron is clearly one of the best SF's ever. Not sure if he's second behind Bird, but he's up there, and his career is just beginning. And this is from a Lebron hater.

MI21

02-01-2009, 07:26 PM

What other SF could be second?

Havlicek? Dr J? Dominique, who was as much a SG as a SF.

If LeBron never played another game in his life he would already be a Top 5 SF ever.

ElNono

02-01-2009, 08:21 PM

Lebron James is very good... Mark Jackson on the other hand...

Unholy Turkey

02-01-2009, 09:35 PM

James, when his career is over, will be looked at among the best ever, regardless of position.

You're not DUNCANownsKOBE.

m33p0

02-01-2009, 10:04 PM

let see bronbron score 44 points in a playoff game shooting nothing but jumpers using his offhand just because he felt like doing it. until then, bird>james.

tlongII

02-01-2009, 10:32 PM

You're right. He's not the 2nd best ever. He's the best.

Ghazi

02-01-2009, 10:33 PM

Lebron has a chance to cement a legacy better than that of MJ's. He's 24 right now, alreayd the best player in the league, and has a serious chance to already win titles (MJ's first was at 29-30) I believe.

But Lebron seems moreso reliant on athleticism than Jordan was. Can Lebron sustain his greatness when he's 30? 31? 32? TIME WILL TELL!

baseline bum

02-01-2009, 11:16 PM

let see bronbron score 44 points in a playoff game shooting nothing but jumpers using his offhand just because he felt like doing it. until then, bird>james.

Agreed. No one in his right mind could call James better than Bird at this point of his career.

ClingingMars

02-01-2009, 11:32 PM

Lebron James is very good... Mark Jackson on the other hand...

Obstructed_View

02-01-2009, 11:32 PM

Mark Jackson on the other hand...

is one of the greatest defensive and passing point guards in NBA history, and was such an effective post player, there's a rule change named after him.

ClingingMars

02-01-2009, 11:32 PM

Agreed. No one in his right mind could call James better than Bird at this point of his career.

except for idiot Blazer fans.

Galileo

02-02-2009, 12:07 AM

First of all, I'm not a Lebron James hater. I think he is an excellent talent and a very good basketball player.

But, Mark Jackson just said on the Cavs/Pistons game that he is the second best small forward ever behind Larry Bird. What is he smoking?

Again, I think Lebron is good, even very good...but he isn't the second best small forward ever behind Larry.

Let's see where Lebron's career ends up and how many championships he's won before we give him the kind of lofty status.

I believe we are (in modern times) prisoners of the moment and lose historical perspective on the game. We do that a lot in sports.

Lastly, before I give any player "a best ever" status...he has to have won multiple championships and had an incredible statistical resume.

:flag:

Lebron James

0 rings
0 MVPs (might get one this year)
0 Finals MVPs
2 First-team All-NBA (will be 3 this year)

Here's how he stacks up:

Elgin Baylor

10 times First-team All-NBA

John Havlicek

8 rings
4 times First-team All-NBA
1 Finals MVP

Rick Barry, Julius Erving and Scottie Pippen blow Lebron out of the water at this point as well.

Lebron has a chance to catch up or beat these guys, but he is a LONG way off at this point.

Ockham

02-02-2009, 10:49 AM

It's always tough to compare players from different eras. Nevertheless, I'd still rank Dr. J & Bird as 1 & 2 (though I'm not sure about the order) when it comes to small forwards, because I don't think you can discount Dr. J's ABA contributions (3 league MVP's, 2 titles). After all, the ABA had a lot of the basketball talent during those years. (As one piece of evidence, look at the list of All-NBA and All-Defense players the year the leagues merged (1977) and you'll see a lot of ex-ABA players.)

ElNono

02-02-2009, 02:57 PM

is one of the greatest defensive and passing point guards in NBA history, and was such an effective post player, there's a rule change named after him.

I'm talking about his commentary skills. I agree he was a excellent player, and I actually think he should have had more than one All Star appearance, considering he was ROY. Obviously, he played in the Stockton era, which set him back as far as getting wider recognition.

Obstructed_View

02-02-2009, 03:15 PM

I'm talking about his commentary skills. I agree he was a excellent player, and I actually think he should have had more than one All Star appearance, considering he was ROY. Obviously, he played in the Stockton era, which set him back as far as getting wider recognition.

Just making sure. There's a tendency sometimes to forget how good some guys were as players because they might not be great at their post-playing jobs.

ManuTim_best of Fwiendz

02-02-2009, 03:23 PM

I'm talking about his commentary skills. I agree he was a excellent player, and I actually think he should have had more than one All Star appearance, considering he was ROY. Obviously, he played in the Stockton era, which set him back as far as getting wider recognition.

Yeah Mark Jackson the commentator deserves to be fired. He sucks.

Sportstudi

02-02-2009, 05:31 PM

Baylor and Wilkins never won one either, and Dr. J didn't win one until he got a Hall of Fame bigman on his team.

Maybe something Dirk needs as well to win the big thing. A big man in the post, something Dallas is lacking since ages.

Killakobe81

02-02-2009, 10:35 PM

The only person that agreed with you is the biggest LBJ hater on this board. Just FYI.

I agree i think he may end up being the GOAT ...but right now?
It's bird, nique dr.j and Worthy then scottie then LBJ ...but i agree he has to win a title to get it.

Spurminator

02-02-2009, 11:02 PM

James is better than Bird already.

TheNextGen

02-03-2009, 12:13 AM

James is better than Bird already.
James will be better when he can:

Consistently make a mid range jumpshot
Consistently make a 3 pointer
Learn to post up
Make his free throws
Hit more than 1 game winning jump shot
Win a championship

man..as i type this out, i cant help but thinking if James only dunks? lol

Rogue

02-03-2009, 12:24 AM

Not that I agree with Mark Jackson but the "best small forward of all time" list in the NBA is kinda thin.

Dr J.
Elgin Baylor
Connie Hawkins
Dominique Wilkens

or even...

John Havlicek
Rick Berry
Scottie Pippen

and if you want to reach...

James worthy
Billy Cunningham

Gotta admit, compared to the other all time great spots, the SF spot is a little limited.
I think some SGs could also play SF sometimes, then our ballot will be much larger if we take them into consideration. Drexler, Mullin, Richmond...

Ancient NBA players are generally bigger than today's rosters, but they are much slower too.

m33p0

02-03-2009, 12:32 AM

I agree i think he may end up being the GOAT ...but right now?
It's bird, nique dr.j and Worthy then scottie then LBJ ...but i agree he has to win a title to get it.
not nique. he's basically a slightly less built version of bronbron.

m33p0

02-03-2009, 12:34 AM

I think some SGs could also play SF sometimes, then our ballot will be much larger if we take them into consideration. Drexler, Mullin, Richmond...

Ancient NBA players are generally bigger than today's rosters, but they are much slower too.
try telling that to the guys who tried to stop nate archibald or tim hardaway.

alamo50

02-03-2009, 05:19 AM

Not that I agree with Mark Jackson but the "best small forward of all time" list in the NBA is kinda thin.

and if you want to reach...

James worthy
Billy Cunningham

Gotta admit, compared to the other all time great spots, the SF spot is a little limited.

A reach???

:lmao

21_Blessings

02-03-2009, 05:38 AM

An injury or Lebron suddenly forgetting how to play basketball is the only way he wont win championships.

Players of Lebron's caliber simply win championships. It's that simple.

An injury destroying his athleticism would though. Lebron's jumpshooting and post game isn't anything to write home about. He gets his mainly due to the fact that he's 275 with point guard speed.

And no, Lebron isn't better than Eligin Baylor right now. He'll probably surpass him, but as of right now? Funny joke.

KidCongo

02-03-2009, 05:44 AM

James will be better when he can:

Consistently make a mid range jumpshot
Consistently make a 3 pointer
Learn to post up
Make his free throws
Hit more than 1 game winning jump shot
Win a championship

man..as i type this out, i cant help but thinking if James only dunks? lol

He hits like 75% of his FT's. Had it 80% for a few weeks this season. You act as if he he shoots like Shaq.

James has hit more than one game-winning jumpshot.

Just let the haters hate and watch the ship's pile up.

RyanLeaf

02-03-2009, 07:13 AM

Bryant > James.

and why did Courtney freaking Lee dominate James when they played. A Rookie? Thats 4 inches and 40 pounds lighter?

TheNextGen

02-03-2009, 11:22 AM

He hits like 75% of his FT's. Had it 80% for a few weeks this season. You act as if he he shoots like Shaq.

James has hit more than one game-winning jumpshot.

Just let the haters hate and watch the ship's pile up.

Name me a jumpshot winner he did other than the one 1-2 weeks ago.

Im not hating, i just dont see how the best player in the game cant do anything consistently other than bulldoze to the rim for a dunk.

JoeTait75

02-03-2009, 11:29 AM

Name me a jumpshot winner he did other than the one 1-2 weeks ago.

Off the top of my head:

March 22, 2006 in OT vs. Charlotte

April 10, 2006 @ Oklahoma City

April 28, 2006 Game #3 EC Playoffs @ Washington

... in addition to the shot he hit against Golden State.

He also has game-winning lay-ups:

May 3, 2006 Game #5 EC Playoffs vs. Washington

May 31, 2007 Game #5 EC Finals @ Detroit

Jan. 30, 2008 @ Portland

Lay-ups and dunks count for two points, just like jump shots.

dirk4mvp

02-03-2009, 11:30 AM

jumpshot winner

mogrovejo

02-03-2009, 11:30 AM

Like others have said, he doesn't have the body of work that would put him on the level of Bird, Hondo, Baylor and a few others. Accomplishments and production for a sizeable stretch matter.

However, he's been playing at a level only Bird topped consistently and it would be of no surprise if in a few years he deserves to be called the best SF of all times - or even the best player ever.

JoeTait75

02-03-2009, 11:32 AM

jumpshot winner

Lay-ups and dunks are also worth two points and count just as much as jump shots.

dirk4mvp

02-03-2009, 11:37 AM

Lay-ups and dunks are also worth two points and count just as much as jump shots.

I could give a shit, but jumpshot winner does not sound right.

lefty

02-03-2009, 11:39 AM

If Larry had had an ounce of athleticism, he'd never be touched as to who's the best SF of all time.

+1

Obstructed_View

02-03-2009, 08:07 PM

Off the top of my head:

March 22, 2006 in OT vs. Charlotte

April 10, 2006 @ Oklahoma City

April 28, 2006 Game #3 EC Playoffs @ Washington

... in addition to the shot he hit against Golden State.

He also has game-winning lay-ups:

May 3, 2006 Game #5 EC Playoffs vs. Washington

May 31, 2007 Game #5 EC Finals @ Detroit

Jan. 30, 2008 @ Portland

Lay-ups and dunks count for two points, just like jump shots.

First of all, "off the top of my head" < :lol Yeah right, Rain Man.

Second, hitting the last shot of the game doesn't make it a game winner. And considering he's the guy with the ball in his hands 100 percent of the time for his team, that's not a large number of clutch buckets. Shane Battier has about the same number and he's like the fifth option on his own team.

LBJ is great, but don't act like he's clutch.

gaKNOW!blee

02-03-2009, 08:08 PM

Who the fuck cares if its a jumpshot or a layup/dunk?

JoeTait75

02-03-2009, 10:47 PM

First of all, "off the top of my head" < Yeah right, Rain Man.

Well I looked up the dates...

Second, hitting the last shot of the game doesn't make it a game winner. And considering he's the guy with the ball in his hands 100 percent of the time for his team, that's not a large number of clutch buckets. Shane Battier has about the same number and he's like the fifth option on his own team.

LBJ is great, but don't act like he's clutch.

I don't have to act like he's clutch. I know he's clutch. I've watched him play long enough and often enough to know that. And what does that mean, 'hitting the last shot doesn't make it a game-winner?' Every shot I listed came inside five seconds and put the Cavaliers in the lead. How are those not game-winning shots? What's the difference between a shot at the buzzer and a shot at 0.3, like the one in Portland last year?

People act like he's Chris Webber, like he's some kind of choke-dog. That's bullshit. The reality is he's not that good of a jump shooter. Isolation plays that end with him launching from twenty feet aren't his forte, whether it's the beginning of the first quarter or the end of the fourth. That's a flaw in his game, not in his makeup.

He's willing to take over down the stretch when he has to. He takes responsibility. He doesn't shy from it. And more often than not, he comes through. Sometimes he doesn't. But that doesn't make him a choker, which is the implication when he's accused of being "not clutch."