Trying to repeat history

[101A]

Do this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7866900.stm).


EU attacks 'Buy American' clause

The EU has increased its pressure on the US to reconsider the "Buy American" clause in the $800bn (£567bn) economic recovery package now before Congress.

The clause seeks to ensure that only US iron, steel and manufactured goods are used in projects funded by the bill.
A European Commission spokesman said it was the "worst possible signal" the Obama administration could send out.
The EU will launch a complaint with the World Trade Organisation (WTO) if the clause remains, the spokesman said.
The EU and Canadian ambassadors to Washington have already warned that the clause could promote protectionism and trigger retaliatory moves.
The rescue plan has already been approved by the US House of Representatives and is under discussion in the Senate this week.
Mixed trade signals
"There isn't a great deal of scope for doing much more but if America went ahead and did this we would have to take it up with the World Trade Organisation," the European Commission trade spokesman, Peter Power, told the BBC's Chris Mason in Brussels.
British Conservative Members of the European Parliament warned of the dangers of "a new economic iron curtain" being drawn across Europe.

The clause "sends a terrible protectionist signal to the rest of the world, and particularly the EU", said Syed Kamall, the Conservative international trade spokesman in the European Parliament.
The White House has said it is reviewing the Buy American part of the stimulus bill, although Vice-President Joe Biden said last week that it was legitimate to have some portion of it in the final measure.
Barack Obama's signals as a presidential candidate on the campaign trail last year that he could rip up the North American Free Trade Agreement were seen as a political gesture to win round the sceptical white working class vote, says the BBC's Jonathan Beale, in Washington.
Perhaps that has become more important with the economic crisis, but it leaves one wondering where the Obama administration really stands on free trade, our correspondent adds.
'Retaliatory risk'
EU Ambassador to Washington John Bruton said that, if passed, the measure could erode global leadership on free trade.
"We regard this legislation as setting a very dangerous precedent at a time when the world is facing a global economic crisis."

Canada's ambassador to Washington warned Senate leaders that if Buy American was in the final legislation, it would set a negative precedent with global repercussions.
"The United States will lose the moral authority to pressure others not to introduce protectionist policies," Michael Wilson wrote in a letter to the senators.
Canada was hoping to be exempted from any Buy American measures, said International Trade Minister Stockwell Day.
"These protectionist measures, in a time of recession, only make things worse," he told broadcaster CBC.

"It can only trigger retaliatory action and we don't want to go there."
There is also opposition from some senior US Republicans who say the measure could start trade wars.
Mr Obama has urged the US Congress not to delay his stimulus plan over modest differences.
The Democratic leader in the Senate, Harry Reid, has said he hopes the stimulus can be approved by the end of the week.
It is unlikely that the package will be able to pass the Senate without Republican support.

Meanwhile, Mr Obama is expected to name Republican Senator Judd Gregg as commerce secretary.
Mr Obama will hope that Mr Gregg's nomination can help secure approval for the stimulus package, our Washington correspondent says.
Mr Gregg would be the third Republican in Mr Obama's cabinet.
The president's first choice for the post, New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, withdrew following questions about his links to big business.
Because it worked so well last time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot-Hawley_Tariff_Act)

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Yeah, it's not surprising but it appears the Demo leadership in D.C. hasn't learned squat from history. It's like Pelosi, Reid, and Obama are having a competition to see who can be a bigger idiot about our economy.

[DarkReign]

Has anyone looked at the import-tariff rates of the EU on American goods?

Japan?

China?

They dont like it because Americans consume.

[DarkReign]

USA files grievance to WTO over EU Tariffs (http://www.ustr.gov/Document_Library/Press_Releases/2008/May/US_Files_WTO_Case_Challenging_EU_Tariffs_on_Certai n_Technology_Products.html)

[DarkReign]

Reading over the EU's position on tariffs was relatively interesting.

They want all WTO members to effectively have 0% tariffs if they are a "developed" nation.

Yet, they dont mind that the undeveloped place tariffs on everything (China, India, etc). Is Japan a WTO member? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Organization) HA! They are...try buying an American car in Japan.

Trading with Europe is one thing, but our trade deficit has nothing to do with Europe (or vice versa for them).

It has to do with the slave labor parts of the globe exporting everything and importing nothing (or at least, not without ~30% increase in cost).

But theyre "undeveloped", therefore Europe has no problem with that. Are they under the assumption that they only directly compete with other developed nations? Can they be that dense?

If you put all the developed countries name's on one list, and the undeveloped on another, what list is longer?

Exactly.

This double standard bullshit where America constantly gets the shit end of the trade-balance stick is tiresome and detrimental. Fuck the WTO, fuck the EU too. Globalization at its finest. The American Taxpayer is footing the bill so we can stimulate other fucking countries while (once again) only benefitting large, multi-national conglomerates?!

Am I on a fucking island here?

[RandomGuy]

Yeah, it's not surprising but it appears the Demo leadership in D.C. hasn't learned squat from history. It's like Pelosi, Reid, and Obama are having a competition to see who can be a bigger idiot about our economy.

Have you ever posted anything to the politics forum that wasn't knee-jerk partisan rancor?

Ever?

I swear, you could be replaced by a 'bot that spews out random (HA!) negative comments about liberals/ democrats/ socialists/ environmentalists/ who-ever-else-talk-radio-tells-you-to-hat-at-the-moment.

[TDMVPDPOY]

EU is subsidising hardcore on there dairy industry fukn up everyone when they dump excess into ur country while increasing tariffs on goods coming into the EU.....its fkn lame. Im tired of their shit, asias bs, south americas bs dumping excess below costs into ur country and destroying a local industry.....

[FreeMason]

lol who cares about history. It's all about getting the cheddar.

THEY screwed up back in the day. WE are in power NOW so WE must exploit what WE can before we have to leave.

[DarkReign]

I am tired of being beholden to the rest of the globe when it comes to our economic policies. It is our money, the taxpayer, footing the bill on this stimulus package. Soooo, we're just going to give it away to corporations and have them spend it as they please?!

Are you fucking insane?!?! Im dead serious. What about corporation's history, pray tell, convinces you that they'll "stimulate" our economy with OUR MONEY?

Look at TARP. Look at the bank bailouts and the bonuses handed out to the executives. Look at their unwillingness to even announce what theyre doing with our money!

What makes you think this is going to change?

This is why I am staunchly against economic stimulus packages, period. If the root word of "stimulus" is "stimulate", the only thing our tax-dollars are going to stimulate is the corporate tax section of the tax revenue pie chart. Who does that benefit? Oh, right. Three parties. Corporations (profits), Third World countries (revenue) and the Government (taxes on profits). And we're ignorant enough to not realize why "stimulus packages" are constantly used as a vehicle of our economy. The only players that matter in this country are the ones crafting the policy....so theyre the only ones who will really benefit or be "stimulated", as it were.

More trickle-down economics...."trickle" being the operative word.

[velik_m]

I am tired of being beholden to the rest of the globe when it comes to our economic policies. It is our money, the taxpayer, footing the bill on this stimulus package. Soooo, we're just going to give it away to corporations and have them spend it as they please?!

Are you fucking insane?!?! Im dead serious. What about corporation's history, pray tell, convinces you that they'll "stimulate" our economy with OUR MONEY?

Look at TARP. Look at the bank bailouts and the bonuses handed out to the executives. Look at their unwillingness to even announce what theyre doing with our money!

What makes you think this is going to change?

This is why I am staunchly against economic stimulus packages, period. If the root word of "stimulus" is "stimulate", the only thing our tax-dollars are going to stimulate is the corporate tax section of the tax revenue pie chart. Who does that benefit? Oh, right. Three parties. Corporations (profits), Third World countries (revenue) and the Government (taxes on profits). And we're ignorant enough to not realize why "stimulus packages" are constantly used as a vehicle of our economy. The only players that matter in this country are the ones crafting the policy....so theyre the only ones who will really benefit or be "stimulated", as it were.

More trickle-down economics...."trickle" being the operative word.

It's NOT your money. You owe "the rest of the globe" 3085.9 billions of dollars. (Nov. 2008). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt#Foreign_ownership)

[DarkReign]

It's NOT your money. You owe "the rest of the globe" 3085.9 billions of dollars. (Nov. 2008). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt#Foreign_ownership)

My fellow Americans, it could not be said better than this.

Game. Set. Match.

Our situation, in a nutshell.

[Winehole23]

Instead of saving the country, it's reckoned wiser to just feed the citizens to the global Moloch of profit.

[TDMVPDPOY]

My fellow Americans, it could not be said better than this.

Game. Set. Match.

Our situation, in a nutshell.

its simple man, america defaults....everyone is in the shitters.....

[ChumpDumper]

Indeed, protectionism doesn't seem like the best policy during a deep recession.

I just find the demands of the other countries to be hypocritical.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Have you ever posted anything to the politics forum that wasn't knee-jerk partisan rancor?

Ever?

I swear, you could be replaced by a 'bot that spews out random (HA!) negative comments about liberals/ democrats/ socialists/ environmentalists/ who-ever-else-talk-radio-tells-you-to-hat-at-the-moment.

Piss off Random Guy. Go read up on the last time our economy went in the tank and we tried protectionism. You and the elected dipshits in D.C. all need to read a fucking history book.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the stimulus is just a short term solution imo.....do they create permanent jobs? 3-4yrs+?

[Wild Cobra]

the stimulus is just a short term solution imo.....do they create permanent jobs? 3-4yrs+?
No, it's a recipe for disaster.

Look at how the markets reacted to the last bailout. We are now hovering at 8,000 on the Dow. If the demonrats pass this bailout, I predict the markets will fall to about 6,000.

Do we really want to give more money to China and others holding US debt?

Do we really want to place more debt on our children?

[Winehole23]

No, it's a recipe for disaster.

Look at how the markets reacted to the last bailout. We are now hovering at 8,000 on the Dow. If the demonrats pass this bailout, I predict the markets will fall to about 6,000.

Do we really want to give more money to China and others holding US debt?

Do we really want to place more debt on our children?Think of the children.

Indeed.

Ok. That was uplifting. Are we all agreed now that wagering the fortunes of our children and grandchildren on our current financial mess, is obviously the most prudent and sane thing to have done?

What you're banking on WC, is that when things get worse you can blame it all on Obama. Nobody will stop you and you might even have some company.

You're already blaming Obama. You "know" the Dow is going to 6000 (generous!), and in your mind our bad fortune will be linked to Obama's legislative agenda. Sequence is causation. You're setting them up like duck pins.

[ClingingMars]

Have you ever posted anything to the politics forum that wasn't knee-jerk partisan rancor?

Ever?

I swear, you could be replaced by a 'bot that spews out random (HA!) negative comments about liberals/ democrats/ socialists/ environmentalists/ who-ever-else-talk-radio-tells-you-to-hat-at-the-moment.

gotta love personal insults from the liberal.

as for this thread, why don't the other countries start worrying about their shitty economies before messing with ours.

[RandomGuy]

Piss off Random Guy. Go read up on the last time our economy went in the tank and we tried protectionism. You and the elected dipshits in D.C. all need to read a fucking history book.

Translation:

"No, I have never contributed anything that remotely resembles intelligent conversation. I am a partisan hack whose opinion is not worth wiping your ass with."

What you know about the economy could be written on the back of a matchbook. I have taken macro, micro, and international economics at the graduate level in addition to 20 some odd hours of graduate finance courses. I have, on this board, rather clearly demonstrated your lack of knowledge about the subject of economics, and if you want to step up, will wipe the floor with you on any economic topic you want, boy.

You will excuse me if I don't really take your opinion seriously.

To be clear: Protectionism is generally stupid. Increasing import duties is probably the worst thing we could do, even if other countries did the same to our imports.

[RandomGuy]

gotta love personal insults from the liberal..


that douchebag


fucking retards.


fuck you


http://www.dan.se/wp-content/photos/retard.jpg


still waiting for you to stop acting like a retard.


http://www.scsv.nevada.edu/~susanb/jblog/archives/grammar.jpg


he is one of the biggest faggot


quit being a jackass.


I thought you had stopped being a total asshole


dumbass :lol


you look like an asshole.


I generally give as good as I get. AHF is generally an asshole to me, because I don't agree with him, much like you are.

I can make a MUCH better serious case for conservatives on this board using insults than you can the other way around, boy.

If you want to get into a pissing contest about it, fine by me, but don't pretend it doesn't go both ways, because you calling someone on insults is just a *wee* bit hypocritical.

[DarkReign]

To be clear: Protectionism is generally stupid. Increasing import duties is probably the worst thing we could do, even if other countries did the same to our imports.

Explain please. Seriously. I can see the obvious downfalls (output reduction) but the less obvious are "above my pay grade".

[Winehole23]

Protectionism gets retaliated against, and a trade war can do needless damage to all the parties. It can raise the price of imports at the worst possible time.

[RandomGuy]

gotta love personal insults from the liberal.




[QUOTE=Aggie Hoopsfan;3064465]you're down on your knees for Obama with your mouth full.

ah hell with it, I'll stop there, unless anybody doubts I could comb through and find the same kinds of insults...

AHF doesn't like me because I called him on HIS hypocrisy a while back either.

He said something like "you post partisan threads", so I went and posted the last 25 threads from each of us.

Care to guess whose threads were more virulently partisan?

Pfft. The "liberals can only insult you" schtick that Mars parroted is simply another example of conservative group-think.

That particular idea, if memory serves, was first advanced by Limbaugh a few years back, as I remember my Dad mentioning it to me at some point. I wonder what Rush makes of Coulter? Pfft.

Not that liberals can't be hypocritical fucks. They can and some are indeed.

But please don't EVER claim that all liberals can do is insult, and not acknowledge that conservatives can't do the same.

Personally I find that the majority of personal insults in forums tend to go the other way.

I will never claim to be a choir boy on the matter. I will generally give as good as I get, and I do try to tone it down when I can.

'nuff said.

[RandomGuy]

Explain please. Seriously. I can see the obvious downfalls (output reduction) but the less obvious are "above my pay grade".

Put quite simply, if China can make, say shirts, and put 500,000 people who manufacture shirts in the US out of work, but the other 299,500,000 of us can buy shirts cheaper that is better for the country as a whole.

Harsh, but taken as an absolute, that is reality.

In a free market system, this allows us to concentrate our resources on things that we can make more competitively in a trading system than other countries.

There are counters to this reasoning, of course, and I am leaving things out, but that is the readers digest version.

[RandomGuy]

Protectionism gets retaliated against, and a trade war can do needless damage to all the parties. It can raise the price of imports at the worst possible time.

Correct.

It also gives us some moral authority when it comes to negotiating treaties.

Since we do have the WTO and some treat obligations, it pays for us to keep the moral high ground as far as this goes.

Not that I want us to be suckers.

If some country holds out our products, while importing to us freely, fuck 'em. Go through the WTO and point out their own obligations. If that fails they are not negotiating in good faith, and everybody knows it.

[RandomGuy]

Yikes. Gotta get a little work done.

Dinner time is over, and I promised a report to somebody by tomorrow morning.

Take care all. That includes you hypocritical conservative fucks. j/k.